 Mae'r bandit wedi y gwelwch, ei bobl,'r berthynasau a'r tynnogau sydd yn grannu ysgrifennu i'n dyn代gwyd am y Cerddor Cedrynau. Y bandit yn hi fathio a fathio a'r gweithio i gweld rănodd cymdeithas ei bod yn dweud mae'r bandit wedi'n fathio ar gyfer cyfwrddol yn gweithio i gyrddwnol yn ei wneud â'r kg logs iaith i gael i'r bandit ond mae'n gweithio i annu fynd a llun achos y byddai'n gweithio i g樣edd 140 of them of Bethel Baptist School located in Maraban, Rideau, Chukun, local government area of Kaduna State. Now, what is going on in Kaduna State? How do we stop it? Well, joining us to discuss this is security experts Bosinde Araigbe and Dr Ibitro Kemi Korubo. He is a lecturer at the consultant endocrinologist at the University of West Haka teaching hospital. He's also the past enemy chairman for River State. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you for having me. Great. I'm going to start with you Dr Korubo. Babies, health walkers. I mean, this is the first of its kind. You never really hear about this. You hear about schools and you know, either teachers being taken because education seemed to have been a big target of these bandits and of course, but hearing that they've gone to hospitals to take babies and mothers. I mean, even security guard, does this not worry you as a health practitioner because I mean, that might just be the new angle for these bandits? Thank you for having me. It's a big duty that the level of insecurity in our country has elated this level. Walk by in areas where you have conflicts. We've had cases where doctors, nurses, health workers have been abducted and even killed. So this is really not new. In Nigeria, this has gone on since sometime around 2001-2002. We noticed that nurses have been banned. So this is not new and it is indeed a big problem in community to our country as well. We are very worried. Now, I know that for River State, there was also a time where doctors were being kidnapped over and over again and it sent some sort of shockwave across the state. But now that we're seeing this happening in Kaduna State, who's to say that it will not be the new norm because we've seen that the education in that part of the country is being targeted so students are afraid to go to school, security has to be up if not parents don't want to let their children go to school. But where you're taking care of sick people and of course doctors also and nurses need their safety, why do you think that Kaduna State is now a soft target? Let's talk about Kaduna State because everything, almost all of the kidnappings, the highest number of kidnappings have taken place in Kaduna State. Why do you think that this is happening over and over in Kaduna State? I'll give you my personal view. My personal view is that there is lack of appreciation for the government, the security forces and the community at large. You must understand that there is all of the public security, you need community participation. You need the community to give the security agencies information and I think that that does not exist if people do not have trust in the current Kaduna State government and so they do not give the necessary information that they should and then they appear and this is the perception. I'm sure I'm very wrong here but the perception is that the Kaduna State government is not between enough when it comes to provisional security, providing the right security personnel, proper distribution of this personnel to sensitive and key areas and the danger of this is that the Kaduna State government will find itself in a situation where the people started to self-help and that would be very very dangerous for the people of Kaduna State so I think there's a perception of them there. Remember here that these bandits, criminals or whatever you call them, they are smart. They once they notice that there is a Kaduna, there is a gap, they sneak in and do their thing and sneak out so the way forward must be a compression between the state government, the security agencies and the community. The government has a lot of work to do to build trust amongst people living in Kaduna. Great. Let me go to Mr Boston Day, Araikpe. Mr Araikpe, you are a security expert and I'm sure that you have had most of the security persons I know are all talked out but this is this is our new normal and we have to keep talking about it. I just asked the doctor what he thinks about Kaduna State. There are pundits who have accused the governor of Kaduna State of being all talk and less action when it comes to dealing with the issue of insecurity and the fact that people are still paying for their friends and family to be released by these bandits that this might also be what's fueling more and more of these abductions. What are your thoughts on this? Well, my thoughts are always different as you know I'm a security activist and consultant so my thought is very simple. I heard that recently our country, the presidency with foreign collaboration were able to arrest one satisfactionist leader, Marshal Nambikan, with good intelligence, repatriated in back to Nigeria for trial. You see, I don't know that they have this kind of power because if they do, I won't know why this level of criminal activity still exists in the north which is the backyard of the people at the hem of the field. You see, when you as a people refuse to train up your child properly and you go outside to begin to correct other people's children, they will not take it lightly with you. Even if you are trying to do the right thing, all they will see is how wrong your child is. I think the insecurity in the north is a point out of the fact that we, the government, do not have enough justification for any fight against insecurity in any betrathalite area like this house. Well, however, it is my view that I think the people in the north might, one way or the other, be enjoying this rather than me now, if you have to fight it. I'm sorry, what do you mean by they're enjoying, I'm sorry, hold on, hold on Mr Arikbe, what do you mean by the Northerners are enjoying this because I remember, I have talked about this issue for months, I remember a group of people in Zamfara who were outrightly cussing up the government of the state and the federal for abandoning them. So I do not understand what you mean by the fact that these people are enjoying it. How are they enjoying it when they are the ones who have been kidnapped and they're the ones who have to strive to crowd funds to be able to to be able to get their people out of the hands of these bandits. How would they be enjoying it? Now, let me tell you something about people. Hello, this is democracy. Majority always carries the boats. When the majority of the peasants are not picking out, when people in positions are not publicly picking out and picking actions that will make the government realize that this is a turn on their flesh. When only people without a voice are speaking, then I think the people are not that out, the people are not all speaking. This is democracy and majority carries the boat. So if majority of the people in these affected areas are silent, for any review or so ever, it means that the people are not speaking. When you say majority, when you say I'm sorry, I have to take you on on this. When you say majority of the people seem to be silence, where is your statistics? Did you do a poll? Have you gone to the north to find out how many people are keeping quiet about it and who are the hardest hit people? Again, I want to make a case for those people. If the people are crying out to their government, not just the federal, but the state government, which is the immediate government, and they don't seem to be listening, how much more government that is at the center, which is the FCT. So could it be the people are really speaking, but the government is not listening? Maybe it could be. Let me tell you something about this thing. I have seen statistics about North and Crichton. I have seen statistics about the people in a particular place in the north. They don't have so much population according to our statistics, according to our national census. But they have a lot of population in this place. But when you say the people are complaining, these people are how many? These people are how many? These people are from a local government. What is the chairman saying? What is the members of the House of 10 million gentlemen saying? What is this half of right members saying? What is the state of saying? People whom they have given their votes to represent them. Why will these people occupy positions of government and they have not been speaking on a regular fact about hitting on air, making sure they are trust nationals present on this challenge and so on? That's what I mean the people are speaking. This is democracy and we have elected people to represent us. When those people are not speaking in our table, when those people are silent and they are speaking and their voice is not heard, it is assumed and presumed that the people are not speaking because the elected representatives of the people have not taken it to heart, maybe because it has not started affecting them and that is what I'm saying. So the people that is affected must do their best to ensure that all elected officers and officials that they have been elected from the least councillors down to the senators and a part of their voice, a part of how they move they make and until that time we will not recognize what they are doing. What is going on there is inhumans, it's nothing of students making education useless. These are inhuman activities and the people must vote for the officials that have been voted into offices responsible until they are able to find solutions because that's why they were voted to pilot a fair protection of life and property is the primary responsibility of government and is the elected official. So if that is not done and they see how people are in power, they are not speaking, they are not speaking, that's what I mean. Let's narrow this down, I'm going to go back to the doctor in a bit but let's narrow this down to the governor of Kaduna State because Kaduna State seems to be the place in the news today. It's barely two days if not three that the governor of the state withdrew his son from public schools saying that his children are being targeted, especially that one, being targeted and then a few days later students are being abducted from a school. Let's look at the person of Governor El Rufai, he seems to be someone who talks tough a lot, in fact I remember I'd like to quote him directly, he said that even if his son were to be kidnapped he would not pay ransom to get his son out. In other words he was trying to dissuade people from paying ransom to get out their family members especially for the Greenfield situation and and we saw the you know back and forth that happened, a majority of the parents of those students said they had to pay millions, they crowdfunded. So looking at the person of Governor El Rufai what do you think the challenge is for a governor like that and why do you think his state is majorly being targeted? Is it about the governor? Is it about the fact that people really are funding terrorism by paying these ransoms to get their family members out? What exactly do you think is the case with Kaduna state and Governor El Rufai? Well I think Governor El Rufai was a very wonderful minister of the HCC in his days as a minister of the HCC but I think as a governor he's still trying to be the minister of the Federal Republic of Nigeria and not the governor of Kaduna state and that is why he's always allowed more on national issues and issues that confine Nigeria for the thing that he is the governor of Kaduna and not Nigeria. I think all the state is for his advisers to advise him properly to understand that Kaduna is his primary responsibility and Nigeria should be a secondary responsibility and if he would channel the level of energy he has in terms of national quality in the presidency and in other issues I'm sure he will have enough idea and be able to create enough permission. So for me I think it's all about Governor El Rufai realising the people of Kaduna and driving them as we supposed to do within his tenure. I think that's all on and finally back to you Dr Korobor the issue is when we have these cases of insecurity we're quick to point fingers at the federal government we're quick to say oh the security agencies are not doing their jobs but we forget that the primary responsibility of our governors is to protect and make sure that our lives and property are safe. I know that in river state the governor has put in place a curfew that starts at 8 30 p.m. I think because of seeming insecurity also at some point which I hope has you know come down to its barest minimum but what role do you think that governors can play in dealing with these cases of insecurity especially for health providers like you who really have to your like essential services if a man is involved in a car crash or let's say bandits attack they need medical help how should this happen across boards but how do governors how should governors come in or scooping to save the day? Okay well the first thing to say is that we are essential services we're not like essential services and I think that we are the most essential services there is so it's going to be done out there. The second part here is that when it comes to provision of security the security must span across not just the health workers but indeed everybody else because as a doctor if I'm not at work and I'm out in the mall or something my kids and we get adopted I wasn't in the hospital I was still adopted so insecurity generally affects the doctor directly and indirectly and other health workers so the security measures must be global total. Now moving forward I think first and foremost the government must first set a clear policy when it comes to intolerance to insecurity the government the governors of the states must work very closely with the security agencies and they must work with the federal government you know one of the problems we face in Nigeria is that our politicians don't understand that once you're elected in there's no longer APC like that it's about governance at 70 people that elected you so there must be a compression between the state and federal government the government the governor must have a good relationship with the security agents and heads of his agencies they must have a close working relationship and then but more importantly the community aspect and I'll keep stressing that there is a need for community participation in security. I'll give an example where my primary role is in a place called Obunac Valley in Potachot and they have a good vigilante here I provide for safe keep my staff safe and you know we always we are sure that we have a good relationship with the community and that way if anything should happen and I go to ask the youth leaders and all that I would get the answers that I need and that's where community participation is key so a stranger cannot come in to rob a house he needs to have done some security assessments you know some homework so if the community gets involved the community know everybody living there we can at least to the barest minimum secure and protected so I think the governor's must ensure that well I want to say thank you to you thank you very much dr corbyn well thank you very much boss india right we thank you for being part of this conversation this is an ongoing conversation we will be back to have it more over and over until we're able to sum up this problem thank you so much gentlemen all right well thank you all for staying with us we'll take a short break and when we return I will give you my take here's my take it's unfortunate that we have to keep discussing and talking about the same things day in day out and sounding like broken records because we have leaders that have failed us leaders who have refused to hear the cry of the people as it may it seems that that all the cries of Nigerians seem to fall on deaf ears our president our governors the members of our national assembly who are supposed to be representing our interests the interests of the people but they they seem to have you know missed the mark they are now most importantly interested in their own interests where it would benefit them and forget that we put them there I hear somebody saying that well we didn't really put them there so they have a right to do whatever they like no it is taxpayers monies that pay for those hardship allowances those ridiculous newspaper allowances all of the monies that you're getting it's our money and so we have every right to get these so-called leaders to be accountable to us but then it is also it behoves on us as Nigerians to not just rest on our oars and say well we throw our hands up and say well these people you they have the police they have the army what can we do there's a lot that you can do as a citizen you need to impress upon whoever your member of the house of assembly is the member of house of representative your senators if we're asking for free fair credible elections and our leaders our members in the national assembly are taking us back to the dark ages then we're not ready as the people because they know what they stand to gain and we will be on the losing end is this what we want as Nigeria well then we cannot wait we need to start now to pressure them to change that electoral act to what it's supposed to be an amendment is supposed to be for the better not for the worse but in this case do we really know the the things that are in that particular amendment how do we get it to be in our favor so we can have good elections come 2023 i am mary annacole and i'm saying the ball is in your court have a good evening