 Oh, like this. Which camera? Okay, there. Yeah, you can look at that one and introduce. I'll do that. Okay. Welcome. The first episode of a new series called Marriage Musings. We have two very special people here which I will introduce in a minute. But in the series Marriage Musings, we will dive deeper into the modern perspective of marriage. And we talked to couples who are also currently exploring their marriage and see what it means to them. And today we have actually three guests. One guest in the background. And then we have Ato and Jess here. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having us. Of course, we're very honored. And MJ is in the background. Yes, if you can hear MJ, MJ is in the background. So, yeah, we're just going to make it very simple, very easy conversation. It's not a particular topic. So, just your relationship as is. We're just looking at the modern marriage like Elaine said. And your perspective are not, basically. So, maybe a good starting point is who are you? And then how did you meet? Okay. Who's going to take that one? Well, we are the human mansos. I think the generation of four. Okay. Wow. Right? Yeah. In fact, generation three because, I mean, my sister doesn't have the name anymore. So, yeah. Okay. Generation three. And yeah, Ato and Jessica, Saturday meets Sunday. Yeah, Saturday meets Sunday. We, how do we meet? Okay, so funny story. Tell the story right. Funny story. Jessica happens to find herself in Ghana during one of her summer vacations. Yeah. Which was, which year? 2017. Yes, 2017. Okay. And she also has similar interests and hobbies like I do. So, she was into photography and stuff. And yeah, I'm saying it right. Thank you, MJ. And she has some equipment that she wanted to sell off. So, I happened to see an ad that was placed on a, a WhatsApp story by a school friend who happens to be her sister's now ex-husband. Yeah. So, I saw it. I'm like, hey, who's this person? Like who's selling the stuff? So, he gave me the contact and then we started talking. Yeah. You started talking about what? Business. You didn't even start talking about, oh, I've seen that you have places come around or still or something like that. He was like, oh, what's your name? Where are you from? What do you do? You know what you do in business? You need to know the person. You are asking trust. Many more questions. Yeah. You want to? No, that's what I don't agree. No, but you have to establish some relationship before you go to the business point. Hi. You're selling this camera. How much does it go for? This is business. But what's your name? Where are you from? How are you coming to be called here with somebody you don't know about? Imagine being brought up by my, shout out to my mom and my other woman. You are brought up in a particular way. You have to know the person, you know. It's like... It's like... You have to put it on still. It's 10 euros. Okay, 10 euros. I'm gonna buy it. I'm not gonna buy it. But you asked me a lot of questions that have nothing to do with the products. But don't make it seem like I didn't ask anyway. You didn't? I don't have my chats. It was a phone call anyways. You started off with a phone call and then afterwards you were like, okay, we got a text. Even the texting. We didn't speak about the equipment anyway. She said, what about business? That's it. No, but... You didn't? Anyway, anyway. So that's how we met here. That's how we met and... But then how did it went from like inquiring about photography stuff to meeting? You understand where I'm coming from. Because I believe that I did ask about the equipment. But then I had other interests or other things peaked on my interests. Telling the truth. And then we... I think we were texting and talking for about a year and a half almost. Yeah. And I came back again. We actually didn't meet when I was in Ghana. The first time they... Wait, 2017 you guys didn't meet? No, no, no, no. So you met in 2019? No, 2018. 2018? For the first time? Yeah. It was her sister's wedding. And that one was even just a half senior. Like I said... But we didn't even meet at the wedding. We planned that we're going to meet before that. Yeah. Which we scheduled in three times and he canceled two times for me. Ooh. To get to work. No, but you all know the city lifestyle. It can be... You can wake up in the morning and they're like, yeah, you need to be at work. So, yeah, I couldn't make the schedule. And then... But it turned out... I think she came back that same year in December. December 2018. No, no, no. So you still met in that 2018? The first time was awkward. Don't talk about it. Wow. I mean... What was the first thing you noticed about each other when you did meet in real life? Was there anything that stood out? You were like, oh wow. Yeah, it was the first thing. Very tall and slim and was very nervous. I was nervous the first time. You had hair, right? Yeah, I had... He had some. Yeah, I had some hair. Yeah, I did. Yeah. But I mean, I met her in her element. It was her sister's wedding. She was busy. She was serving people. She came to say hi and I was like, wow. Okay, so I had an experience. You were impressed. Yeah, I was impressed with what was going on. I don't know if she was putting on the show. And I saw him looking at me like the whole time. I don't think he focused on the wedding ceremony that was going on. But each time when I turn it around, he's like staring me down. Kwame, you... So I mean afterwards, when it had died down, he was like, oh, let's step outside. And then we went into the car and he's like, oh, he wants to show me something. And then he drove us to KFC and he was like, oh, he just wanted to get me some ice cream to cool off from all the work. And I was like, okay. Oh, that's sweet. You're scoring some points there. That's a real gentleman. Yeah. And how did it evolve from there? So you went to get ice cream. Yeah, we got ice cream, cooled down. And then... We just got back to texting. Yeah, got back to texting. I think I met her once more before she left. Okay. And then she came back... Actually, we went to the cinema. No, that's when you came back in December, right? No, that was still that period, December. We went out once before you left? Yeah, I thought we went to... No, no, it's when you came in December. Oh, really? Yeah. It's possible. Yeah, when you came back in December, yeah. Then we went on the movie thing. We went to Pinocchio's first. More ice cream? Yeah, more ice cream. Yeah, more ice cream. More ice cream. And he ordered... What was it? Pizza Hawaii? Yeah, Hawaiian pizza. I don't know. Why do people like pizza Hawaii? The Hawaiian pizza is... It depends on your mood. What do you think? Sweets are. Sweets are. Yeah, sweets are. I've had it maybe once. I don't despise it. But it's not the thing I would go for either. It's like a constant thing when we're having pizza. He likes sweets. I like my sweet and sour. Yeah. That's me. Yeah, so we went out. And then the next year, last 2019... We actually became officially in 2019, the 10th of January, 2019. That was true. Of course, your birthday. To me? Yeah, to my birthday. That's your birthday. Now it's your birthday. 10th of what? January. Oh, January. Yeah. Oh, I don't know if you remember, there was a moment when we were at city, and then there was a whole saxophone, big impression in the morning. I don't know if you missed it, but yeah. You came for who? You? Yeah. On my birthday. I don't even remember. That was you. Yeah, that was your birthday. You sent the saxophone? The saxophone, everything. The brass band, the new saxophone. I don't think I remember. Wow. Yeah, it was. I still have the videos now. Oh, that's really nice. You can just one time it in there. Yeah, send it to Kwame then. But yeah. Ice cream versus the whole band on your birthday. Yeah, I was, you know, I was, yeah. But yeah, I think. Levels. Yeah, there was levels. There was different levels. And yeah. Yeah, she's something else. That's nice. And then it, yeah. It progressed from there. It progressed from there. And the one thing that stood out for me, and what did it for me, to be honest, was Jessica was straightforward. She was like, look. I'm not here to play around. I don't want to see where it's going. I want my next relationship to at least lead towards marriage. So if that's not what you are about, then go check out. And that's what did it for me. At that moment, I was like, no, this is someone who is like really serious. Like you can't go and joke about it. So I think that's, that's what did it for me. And then, yeah, like we said, it progressed from there. She came again that year, twice. So you did quite a bit of long distance. Yes, a lot, a lot. How long was that period in total? To, okay, let's say 20, 90, no, 2020. January. January. Yes. So that's, that's a good like, Yeah, right before Corona. Initially because it was. If you're official in 2019, then you only did long distance. I mean, I mean, we're talking the whole time from 20. Yeah, from the camera. The camera all the way. Yeah, it was still. Okay. Okay. So it was warming up. Yeah. So initially we were supposed to, he was supposed to come to the Netherlands in November, December, 2019. But he didn't get the visa. So then I was like, you know what? Oh, Charlie, I'm bouncing me. Oh, sorry. So I, yeah, I decided, okay, let me then come to Ghana in November, December, because he already had his off days. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I can come. But I, we had also planned that was going to come in January, February to also go on the heritage. The heritage cover. Yeah. So. How long have you done long distance? Is it about two, three years? Yeah, two, three years. What were your biggest lessons there? Any advice? Any advice? If you're doing long distance, right? You need to know the person you're doing long distance with. Um, Jessica. Jessica is a typical, she's a Ghanaian, but she's typical Dutch, right? So she doesn't play with her time. She likes to plan ahead. Be transparent. Yeah, transparent. She doesn't like random. I mean, random doesn't work, especially when you're two hours ahead. Yes, MJ, right? Yeah. I'm working on it. So yeah. Um, yeah, you need to, you need to prioritize. You need to plan, stick to the plan. Try as much as possible. And also, I think one of the things that we did is that make sure we had like a date night. Yeah. Even though you can't physically see each other. Like every, like two weeks on a Friday, it's either we watched the same movie. Yeah. So nice, you know. So. Aw. Yeah. Oh, we did the same thing. Yes, that's what I was saying. Yeah. It's really nice. I think that's what works. I mean, there are several times where I, I either forgot about the date night and yeah, we'll have a long discussion. You, you what? I, I, I forgot. Like we made plans. You forget the plans. Yeah. And no, I wouldn't say anything. Yeah. I would just be like, okay, see if he's going to say anything. If not the next day, I'll be like, I told you. We made plans. What happened? Yesterday, we were supposed to do something. Oh, you, you actually wait till the next day. Yeah. No, he doesn't wait till the next day. I wait till the next day because I'm like, I always feel like if it's important to you, like you should know. Yeah. You should be able to, you know, come to me or at least text me and say like, Oh, I know like today we have date night, but I have something going on. Yeah. But not to say anything. I'm like, okay, then like later I won't say anything. We'll talk about it in the next day. And then from there we will see if you will better yourself the next time. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. We live and learn. How was communication like, I think the whole conversation is turning to how you met him long distance. I like it, but how was communication like in terms of texting and calling? Because sometimes meanings can be different depending on what's up. What's up can change the whole meaning of a conversation, especially when you misread it. Yeah. Did you have conflicts in that sense? We did. I don't think so. No, not at all. Yeah. But I also think we used to call up. We called every day. And we made sure that when he closes from work, like we had at least 30 minutes to an hour and we had like a call going through each other's day. How did it go? Yeah. Text was less during the working periods. It's more like, hey, how are you doing? How's your day going? You know, safe trip to work. Just let me know when you have lunch. Yeah. Very short. So it was more the calls that we interacted with. And it was video calls. Not just right now. Yeah. I think video calls are good. That's nice. Oh, then I too was buying credits for that. I mean, it was data. I was going to say that... I was going to say that we... I mean, data, you're both playing a lot. Yeah. And I was using some answers to the Wi-Fi. Anyway, so... What content are you having? I'm not getting that out. So I think voice notes also helped a lot. Yeah. I think we used to voice note a lot. And there was one thing that really... I can't forget it because anytime I see the word O and K, Jessica comes to mind. Even though Ossai Kwame is okay. So anytime it just says something and I text, okay. She's like, what does that mean? Not even okay. Yeah, okay. It's O and K. It's like, just tell me that you're not able to talk or anything. Be right back with something. Be right back with what Ock is like. Yeah, you see the way she put it was Ock. Yeah, it's Ock. Like it's awkward. So it's supposed to be okay. A-Y for you. Exactly. Maybe she prefers that. Okay, E, you know. But I think you replied that. But I'm assuming that you replied that because you were busy with something and you're like, let me just reply. No, but I was used to replying okay, A-Y with okay. In your mind. Okay, okay. That's what it means. But that's the thing that we also discovered with WhatsApp that you have your own interpretation of words and you're like, what are we saying this? And then you call it and you're like, oh, but I meant it like this. Yeah, that happened sometimes. But for us, I think long distance really helped us to communicate because you cannot see each other's day. So you really have to talk through your day and point out what was important. Yeah, the highlights. And so I think you also built that foundation in that sense. Very important. Yeah, and I mean, like you said, it builds a foundation. Now we get home and that's the first thing. We want to know how the day was. And then, you know, forgive me, Ganyet, but we really suck at describing vividly how our day was. Yes, oh. See the way she's saying yes, oh. So I mean, first I struggled, but I think I'm better now. I'm able to describe more how I feel like things happening around me. Nice. Then I'm curious because you have been very forward about wanting to get married. So how did you get to that decision? Was it a together decision or was it always in the future for you guys? You were like, oh, that's just another step for us. What does it mean for you guys? I think I told him point of black is that we are only going to start dating if you are sure or you know that this will progress. So I think that was the first step. And then... And may I ask how soon was that when you were texting? Like how did you know each other? I think, like I said, a little after the business didn't business. It didn't flourish. I think it will take six months after that. He was like, oh, you're a really nice girl. Like I like the way you are, how you talk. I think even at that moment he even told me like, I love you. Did I? Did I? I told? Yes, you did. We can go back to, you know, a WhatsApp chat. I don't remember. Guys don't hold me for this. He told me I love you and I was like... He said that. What? I was just waiting. Up to speed. It was a very short time. And I was like, I like you too. Oh yeah. Yeah, I do remember. I do remember. I like you. I like you too. But I think we need to just get to know each other a bit more, a bit better before we get to the stage of I love you. And then you also shared your intention that if we're going, if we're proceeding then for me it has to be a long-term commitment. Yeah, exactly. And that's marriage. And I think for me, right, yes, I think I used to throw that whole I love you around a lot. So which means it wasn't heavy then? Was it? No, but you see, so maybe I didn't, I wasn't that mature then. But I grew to understand that. I think in between, hello MJ. So maybe you were not mature then, so you were throwing things like that around. But now you learned. Yeah, I learned quickly that I shouldn't just be saying that to everybody. Is it because I'm putting you on the spot? That's fine. Is it because it worked for your dealings with Ghanian girls? I would say that... No, not Ghanian girls. The Ghanian girls you have dealt with or the Ghanian women you had been with. I can't say Ghanian girls because that's generalizing. Take that back. But it's because it was working for the Ghanian girls you have dealt with. And this was a completely different experience. And so we realized that my strategies won't work here. I would say working. I would just say that's what I was used to. You also don't know these things until you find the person that you really connect with. Exactly. So maybe for Ato, he thought that was a level of where you say I love you, but then you meet somebody who you really connect with and then you get the deeper meaning of it. Exactly. And then you know how we watch movies from Europe and then they don't throw that I love you around a lot. We don't get it, but it actually has a deeper meaning when you decide to commit and stay with that particular person. So that's when I was like, okay, well, man, you shouldn't be just saying I love you. So you were doing the Americanized version of it. Yeah. But I love you. Yeah, but I love you. That kind of thing. Yeah. That's what I was used to. Like you said, when you meet the right person, it just becomes a deeper meaning to it. And I always told him like, okay, maybe for me, I am very particularly like expressing myself in a certain way to certain people because I don't want people to read into it in the wrong way. If I start telling people I love you, I love you. And then for someone else, I love you, it might be like, oh, this person actually likes me. And then, you know, conversation-wise, it starts changing. And before you know, yeah, I just try to stay away from that. If you're friends, you're friends. If you are lovers, we are lovers. Yeah. To be able to differentiate. So we had a disclaimer in the beginning, like you want to move towards something long-term. But then how did you move over time? Like, how long did it take? Like, how long did it take you to... And how did it evolve? Like, did you decide together like, oh, let's get married by this time? Or what's the proposal? Or how did that... How did that happen? So, how did I get to decide? I mean, it took... We're a Christian family. So I had to pray about it. First off, to calm my inner man, or to let my inner man know that my spiritual man that, hey, but God, this is the person that I feel deeply connected with. This is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. What do you think? If there's a sign or something, let me see it. But if there's nothing, this is someone I want to get married to in the nearest future. And I think COVID was a big blessing to us. Okay. How do you mean? So, Jessica was supposed to come in February, like she said, so that we can go on the heritage caravan. But she wanted to change her mind and come in summer. In June. Of 2020? Yeah, of 2020. And I was like, no, let's try and calm. Even if you're not going to go for the trip, we could do something else. So that was March then? Yeah, that was March. Okay. Because the reason why I actually didn't want to come anymore is because he told me that, oh, he needs to work. And then I had the Abel White play as well. Yeah, and I was like, well, he still wants me to go, but I'm like, what is the fun part about it? Like it was something that I was supposed to do together. Yeah. So she was like, well, I won't go if you're not going. But I was like, well, you still come. We'll see what we'll do about it. Yeah. And so she came and then a few weeks later, we started hearing about COVID. And then COVID happened and then... She couldn't go back or she didn't want to go? Well, I couldn't go back because the borders in the Netherlands were actually closed. Yeah. That's scary. So I was okay. I had my work laptop with me. Yeah. We used to work also from home before that. So my boss was like, hey, take your time. Yeah. You know, you have your work laptop with you. So we can still communicate. Yeah. That's nice. And he said nobody's going to work anyway. So, yeah. And I mean, going there for just planning. What was it? Two months. Yeah, two months. Two years. Almost two years. Wow. Yeah. Suddenly you had a lot of time together. Two months to almost three years. Yeah. That's pretty nice. And we had the opportunity to cohabitate, to live together. How was that for you? Well, it was different. It was different to be in our own space. Well, we started off by living at my mom's place for a bit, but you all know how the in-laws are. Yeah. But I got to say, it was because of a reason. Yeah. There was some issues happening on my side of the family that just wasn't able. So you couldn't go back home. Yeah. My mom was also not able to stay in the house herself. Yeah. So due to that, when I came, I just, I mean, we thought it was just going to be for a month or two. Yeah. And then it's much longer. Yeah. Exactly. And then, yeah, you know, when it became longer, yeah, my in-laws and I mean my parents felt like, okay, okay. It was just for a few weeks now. It's looking like forever. But yeah, then we moved out, got our own place. And the living together between the two of you, that went really smoothly or how was it? Yeah. I mean, I had to learn her ways. Yeah. And the other way around. She had to learn mine as well. It's always the two way street. But it was cool. It was good. Okay. Sometimes I actually miss those early days. Funny enough. What do you miss about like, what do you mean you miss those days? I mean, we had, we had... Is it because those like, first of all, you were not married yet? And... Maybe like the thrill of it. Like, yeah, we're not married, but we're living together. And it was your first time in Cohabit. Exactly. So it was just different. And I know a lot of people experience this when they actually get married, but yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, yeah, our day and night, sometimes I can go back to some of... Yeah. Do you think you're missing it? Because also after you got married and the child came in, everything changed. Is that it? I think... I think yes. To some extent. Yeah, the dynamics has changed. You need to put more effort and time into planning these things now that you have a child. True. I think that's... Yeah, maybe that's why sometimes, most often, I miss it. Yeah. So let's just do that. Are you gonna... I wanted to ask, like, how would you describe the common ground in your marriage? What do you feel like you really connect on? Like, what are your pillars for... The principles, the values. I think the main pillar for our marriage is our relationship with God. We don't joke with that at all. It's the most... Like I said, it's the main pillar, like the biggest pillar. When we're talking, Bible discussing, we're talking Christ is different. It's different. It feels so different. And you always want to get back to it. Even on our way here on the train, she just calls asking me, because I'll be leading prayer, she was asking me, what am I gonna be praying about? And I was telling her what I was led, or what I feel like I'm led to lead people to prayer about. So yeah, I mean, that's our biggest pillar. And I think that's the fact that we have the same interests. Yeah. Like photography, gadgets. Oh, nice. We don't have that. Yeah. That helps a lot. We like similar movies. We sing. Like, yeah, she loves to paint. I love to paint. She loves to dance. I love to dance. It just works. The only thing that she has that I don't have is that she's more structured. Yeah, the structure is. MJ. Do you want to be on TV? Just give us one more minute. One more question, okay? One last question and we're gone. So I wanted to ask you a question. Just give her the biscuit, actually. Closing. Give her the biscuit. Quick, quick, quick. MJ, MJ. Okay, who's buying you? Hmm? Oh, say. Oh. Yeah. It's always like quietly playing. Yeah. Enjoy. Well, yeah, I used to do it. Like, it's really difficult to predict. It's normal. Okay. The last question. Yeah. Last question. I'm curious to hear what you're looking forward to. Like, what are you most excited about for your future? Oh, the most thing I'm excited about is for MJ to grow up, be old enough to take care of herself. And then I am my wife. Of your marriage, man. Oh, yeah. Of course. No, that would be like. Aside from your child. No, the child of the dynamic. Your personal relationship with each other. What are you excited about the most for the future? Oh, for the future. I'm really proud to have her as my wife. She's the structure to my fluidity. And I just can't wait to see gray hair on the head and gray. Well, I already have some, you know? Yeah, and gray might be, you know, grow old together. Yeah, definitely. Like I'm saying, I'm imagining MJ or our children taking care of themselves and then we can travel around. It's building the future together. Yeah, building a future together. Yeah. And just what were you looking forward to? Yeah. Like you said, growing old together, you know, I think we ourselves are at an age that we are trying to build our careers and stuff like that. Yeah. So it's really interesting to do that together. Yeah. And have that support from each other. Yeah. So yeah, I'm looking, I'm really looking forward to how we will see each other in the next 10 to 15 years. Yeah. And where we will be compared to now. Yeah. We'll be. And this might be a shameless blog, but I'm Europe's finest MC. Oh, that's my shit. You can put it in. And then look forward to Jessica. She is very handy and she is into luxury gifts and gifts that actually have meaning. So yeah, look forward to Karu to you on Instagram. And of course, come now to MC on Instagram. Well, put it in the description box. Yeah. And my website is live. So you can check that out as well. Wow. Come now to MC.nl. Yes. So yeah. So I'll say this. The future. Yeah. The future is excited. Yes. I think that. But it's really nice. I can feel the excitement. So it's really nice to. Yeah. Thank you so much for being so open with us and sharing a part of your story. And I know we'll be in touch. I'm also looking forward to see how you grow and develop. And thank you so much. Thank you so much. I'm sure there's going to be a part two when. Yeah. We should. When you come back to Ghana, we'll do an update. That would be great. No, I'm not going to ask. Don't ask. You'll find out. So yeah. That's the first episode. Marrys Musings. Part one. Part one. Stay tuned for part two. Or a different couple. So yeah. Catch you in the next one. Bye. Thank you. You're welcome. It's like at the end where she got the biscuit. That's when she got quiet.