 If you want to lose weight, if you want to get in shape, if you want to get fit, and you want to make sure that it happens and that you can maintain it, in other words, you want the best odds, nothing is more effective than hiring a good guy, a good coach, a good trainer. By the way, this is true for any personal growth. If you want to move in a direction where your life changes, having a mentor or a guide is your best bet. Across the board, right? Yeah. What if you know everything? Yeah. That's a big problem stuff. If you think you know everything. This was, I think this was the greatest challenge we had when we were writing programs, knowing this. Oh, yeah. It was knowing that, you know, we're going to go out and create these programs for the masses, but deep down knowing that no matter how good, how much time we spend on thinking of all the possibilities, the variables. We're not going to compete with that. You can't. You can't compete with. No. Now, thank God we had the podcast to complement the program, so most of the audience that follows the programs also hears our advice. And so it's kind of like having a coach through it, but it's not the same. It's not the same as having me standing there in front of you, having a plan for us to do something today. And then I watch the way you move. I can tell the way your posture is when you first walk in. I can ask you questions like, how did you sleep last night? How did you eat yesterday? What's going on? And then go, oh, okay. I need to make a pivot. Look, it's like think back to when you were a kid, right? I mean, we all took the classes that required math, English history, whatever. And there's that one teacher, right? Everybody can think of that one teacher that just not only did they stand out, but they made you love learning something that you didn't know you had a love for. That was the teacher, right? That was the guide. That's what a good trainer will do. A good trainer doesn't just know exercises and form and technique. They don't just know how to change those exercises or your form and technique based on how you move. They don't just know diet or how to change it based off of you. They know a good coach or trainer knows how to guide you in an effective way. And that is so different from person to person that it took me, I loved being a trainer. I knew I wanted to be a trainer and work in fitness at a very young age. Like it was a passion of mine. I mean, I'm going to be quite honest with you. It took me a decade to get good at being a trainer because it's so nuanced. There's so much individual variance. It took me, I mean, before that, I knew exercise and diet and stuff like that, but it took me a decade to get effective at getting people to make these changes and then keep these changes for the rest of their life. So that's how hard it is. But when you find someone like that, there's no program that we could create that would ever compete. Yeah. Well, once you graduated past, just giving them a plan and educating them and kind of having that in front of them and just peering more into their behaviors and trying to really dig into that from the very beginning and find out what those buttons are that kind of motivate them or might cause a setback. Like you get to understand how they interact on a daily basis. You just become so much more effective immediately. It's so funny you went this direction because we just got back from the coaching con. And this was one of the things that I was expressing to so many of these great coaches and trainers that are like so inspiring seeing some of them in the traction they've made already in their first couple of years of being a trainer. But like me having to remind them like, hey, calm down, dude. You're on year two right now. Like you guys see the the success of the business. But what you don't realize is that a majority of that success is not the oh, we we figured out podcasting or we understood sales funnels or we built this great website. It's like, no, it had nothing to do. What it really had everything to do with was the 15 plus years that led into that. I was almost two decades deep in the fitness before I started the podcast. So you guys are doing so good already. You got to be patient. Now, granted, you they're probably going to be a lot better than I was a lot sooner because we were like figuring it out for ourselves in the trenches, learning through trial and error and repetition through client clients. Hopefully we've provided and created enough good solid content, especially now with the coaching program to help accelerate that growth. But you got to be patient. Some of this stuff just takes time. It takes time to see the same kind of problems continue to to reoccur with your clients to know, like, oh, OK, I know what to do. And then the next level to that is how do you learn to forecast it before they even I was just I was waiting to say that, like when you can forecast to somebody, here's what you're going to notice at this point. And here's the challenges you're going to run into. And here's probably what's going to happen. And here's what we're going to do. And then they experience it. You've earned so much trust and the person goes, OK, I see that, you know what you're talking about. And this isn't and to have the confidence, Sal, to let that, like allow the client because here's a mistake that's like earlier trainers make. You get all the knowledge and you know that that's the wrong way. This is the right way. And part of the art of being all the coach people is to when you first meet somebody, if you if you're combative and you argue with them or you tell them how wrong they are, like, they're going to put a wall up or they're going to bounce on you. So there's this like this delicate dance that you have to do with a client of like kind of nodding your head when you know that's not going to fucking work for you like, OK, yeah, we can do that. OK, and then knowing like, OK, this now I know what to be prepared for because I want them to to relax, let their guard down, you know, build that trust with each other. I haven't earned that trust yet. So then I'll OK, nod my head. Yes. And they go, OK, well, you know, here's are some of the things that we might run into, you know, and do you start laying out all the stuff and then you let it unfold and like, shit, that's exactly what you say is going to happen. Well, what's your goal, right? Is your goal to be right or is your goal to help get this person to long lasting, sustainable progress, results, have a good relationship with fitness and nutrition? If your goal is to win or to be right in terms of arguing with them, well, then OK, go argue with them, tell them how wrong they are. But you're not going to succeed at what you're really going to get by in. No, man. I mean, I told I tell that one story so many times because hopefully this woman listens to podcasts and hears how bad I feel. But I blew someone out once because I was right. I was right. She was wrong. She was she wasn't telling me the truth, whatever. And she left and never came back. And within a few days, I'm like, what have I done? Like, yeah, I got I told her the truth and she figured out that I was right and whatever. But gosh, I hope I turn her off. Not only turn her off, I hope she might have never start tried again because I made her feel so bad. And what have I done? Like, did I succeed in anything except for making my ego and my pride feel better? So yeah, if your goal is to is to get that person to figure this out, first off, it takes a while for the most part. Very rarely you get that client who just kind of figures it out and falls into it. That's like the perfect student. Very rare. Usually it takes a while. Sometimes it takes way longer than you anticipate. I mean, I remember one guy I trained, you know, and he was consistent with me. It took us over three years to lose 30 pounds. But it wasn't he didn't lose the 30 pounds of three year period. He lost in the last like four months. So it was like over two and a half years of nothing. And then it was it finally clicked at the end. By the way, he never gained a back. I'm still friends with him, right? This is at least 10 years ago. So that's that's what you're dealing with when you're a coach or trainer. Now, if someone's listening or they're disheartened, here's a deal. Your odds without a good coach or trainer are almost zero percent. That's just the data. The data will show you that when you go do this on your own, you try and free this out, the fail rate is through the roof. You know, luckily, if you have like one of the reasons why we do so many podcasts every week is we know that there's people who are on this journey and we're like, OK, if we can be in their ear often, that is going to be at least what it's like to be with a coach to kind of hear these things being communicated and help keep those people moving in the right direction. But nothing will, nothing will ever replace that. You got to share that. So when I was in Utah, I had Jerry with me. And so she was still working and so with that. And she's like, oh, look, I just got this great email. And she read this email to me. I want Doug to read it to you guys because it's along these lines of us coaching people through the podcast. Do you have it, Doug? Yeah, I do. Actually, it's posted right here. His name is Kyle Saliba. Hope it doesn't mind being shouted out on the show. Well, he was live, right? He was live. So he goes, I was on the show a while ago in mid November relating to my low testosterone, which concerned me, especially since I'm only 20 years old. Just wanted to send a check in as Adam requested. I did on the call. Thanks to your advice. I got my vitamin D tested and it did indeed come back deficient. I implemented all your advice and did Maps Anabolic and had my testosterone checked again. Recently, my testosterone numbers have doubled since the call and I'm now in a healthy place. I can't thank you guys enough. Yeah, that's phenomenal. So great. That's excellent. But you know, I don't remember. I think I kind of remember that. In fact, I remember as a young kid. 20 years old. I remember that. He had a low testosterone. I think I remember him. I think he originally was asking if he should get on hormone therapy. That's right. And we told him to do this first before he did something like that. Yes, yes, yes. And then so that's why it's such a... So I mean, again, for all the other younger, because it's wild that we have this conversation for 20-year-olds now, but it's becoming super popular. I remember when we first started working with the hormone companies and that was like the most common DMs that I got were these 20 to 25-year-olds that were coming back with low testosterone. And the answer is to not jump on to synthetic testosterone right away. The answer is first to check all these boxes before you because at under 30, you shouldn't have to do that. No. If you're under 30 years old, you're still young and resilient. Yeah, you should not have to use hormone therapy. Of course, there's always exceptions to the rules. Of course. I know it's a bit of an overgeneralization, but for the most part, if you are under the age of 30, it's typically too soon to jump right to hormone therapy. It's usually nutrient deficiency and or lifestyle factors. And lifestyle for kids in their 20s now is radically different than what it was a few decades ago. Way less active, less sunlight. Yeah, less deep sleep. No strength training, sleep is all being affected. Diet has changed radically over the last few decades. And there's probably some environmental factors too, but I mean, doubled? Double the testosterone? That's amazing. Yeah, that's incredible. By the way, I got at the coaching event, I had a few trainers approach me and say that they did our three-day free training. And one of them came up to me. Double sales. Double sales. Yeah, yeah. I heard all kinds of things. Double sales. Like I've doubled my sales since watching you guys teach how to present myself properly and how to present packages of training and stuff like that. So yeah. Watching that community grow right now has been fantastic. And I did get a chance to talk to a few that weren't in there. And a lot of them was because they had just invested in the coaching con and some other things. And they didn't know that we have a payment option. We go monthly on that. So it's not a huge burden. And I said, listen. Or just do the free three-day training too. Well, I mean, bare minimum, do the free training. That's why we put it out there. But if you invest in the actual coaching program, there's monthly payments on it. And so far, what we've done is almost everybody I know that's been inside that thing has seen an increase in their revenue that's significantly greater than the investment it was. Just scratches the surface. I mean, yeah, we just put that out there because that's like the immediate. I can apply this right now to my business and I could see a return. Well, there's just so much more you can do. People watching and listening, it's mindpumptrainercourse.com, right Doug? Did I get that right? That's correct. Today's giveaway on YouTube is Maps Anabolic. To enter to win, leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Also, this month's sale, Maps Anywhere and Maps Hit, both 50% off. If you're interested, just click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. I gotta tell you guys about something funny too, by the way, my three-year-old. Get to my, about my son. By the way, I had the worst sleep of my life over the weekend, which I'll tell you guys in a second. Bro. I feel like it's getting worse and worse. Every time you talk about how many times is this lately. Listen, I have four kids, okay? This was the worst night I've ever experienced in my entire life. I'll tell you guys the same, but he goes up to Jessica and he goes, mom, I got to tell you something, but he took me upstairs and he did something really funny. And she was like, what do you do? And he goes, he shaved the beard off his armpits. Shaved the beard. I was hanging out with him. Armpit beard. Yeah, and I was like, you know, cause I'm like just trimming my, you know, underneath and he's like, oh, you're shaving your beard? And I'm like, that's his armpit hair. Speaking of which, he also, he was laying out in the sun and he was looking down. And I guess he saw a little peach fuzz on his chest. And he goes, mom, mom. He goes, but boss said I'd have to wait a long time to have a beard, but I already have a little peach fuzz on his body. I saw the video of him doing push ups this morning by himself. Hey, what is going on? That was awesome. I don't like talk about working out. He's all by himself over there, on his own, in the playroom. She saw him and she started filming him. That's cool. He's just doing, he's trying to do exercise. He invented some and then one is push ups because he must have seen us doing push ups at one point. But anyway, let me tell you guys about this night of sleep. That was just devastating, dude. So we were traveling, which always messes with my sleep and flying just kind of messes me up in general. Especially that way. Florida back as well. Oh, just, just, it was just, I went Florida. Florida, Texas, Texas back home. I had to wake up super early to get back. And it was just really just, it doesn't feel good, right? In that, during that period of time though, my kids were starting to get sick. So my daughter was giving Jessica some trouble. So she was having some poor sleep. So we're leading into this, this incredibly horrible night of sleep. Both of us are already kind of tired. Oh God. So I get home, I'm like, you know, I'm just- You're still married? Hey, you know what? I'm gonna tell you, dude, sanctifying. Yeah. I know what that means now. The term sanctifying means when you go through challenge and it brings you guys closer. Oh good. Not apart. And so actually the good news with this is that we, we went through the toughest, which I'll take as night ever. And the next day we're both exhausted, dead, completely just out of it. Moments of laughter, being with the kids, you know, hugging each other, even while it was happening. So anyway, we go to bed and right away, we went to bed at 10, midnight or so, the baby wakes up and you can't, the only way she stopped crying is if Jessica held her while either standing or sitting up. That was it. She couldn't, she couldn't lay down with her. I couldn't take her, she'd freak out. Just mom and mom has to sit up, okay? So that's happening and it's just all night. So we're like, oh, this is terrible. So I'm staying up with Jessica because I realize how isolating it is if you're up with your baby by yourself and you're just exhausted. So I'm gonna stay up and just give her support, right? So I'm there. Meanwhile, my son wakes up for some reason in his room. So I run downstairs, try to put him down, put him to sleep, come back upstairs. He wakes up again, go downstairs. 4 a.m., the baby finally falls asleep. So for midnight or so to 4 a.m., she was up, both of us up. And I went up and down the stairs two or three times. 4 a.m., finally fall asleep. I go downstairs cause I'm like, okay, if my son wakes up again, then I gotta be down here cause otherwise he'll come up and wake up the baby too or whatever. So I go downstairs and he wakes up at 5.15, that was it. So I probably had a grand, maybe three hours of sleep in one night. The whole night, just back and forth and totally brutal. It was devastating. But I took some pictures of Jessica while she was holding the baby so I could show her, it's really sweet. It's like, you know, she had, we had the iPad at one point. Jessica's trying to sleep while sitting up with the babies, you know, doing a thing. But it was, it also brought us together, man, which is pretty cool. So let me ask you, because you're, I know you're also working on this exercise relationship that you got going on too. Did you still work out? Did I still work out? No. No, no, no. You took it off? Yeah. Oh, good for you. Cause actually normally, your psycho ass would still have worked out. No way, man. Cause I feel like that's like a situation right there. The right thing is to let your body rest and not do it. The addictive part is that I would go work out still because I say I need it. Bro, we were, I was dead. There was no way. Oh, good for you. Yeah, there was no way. Well, good for you. I think that's growth there too. I think that's an area that's a treat. Where else physically unable? Let me think about it. No, I thought about it when I did it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no way. Yeah, I think that's an example of that right there. Of old you still would probably go and get that training and tell yourself that you absolutely have to. Bro, that's brutal. I tell you what, man, the sleep with kids, cause here's a problem. Cause then I have, we're on a family thread, right? And I have a family member that doesn't have any kids or anything. People with kids, whenever someone without kids makes a comment, there's always a party that your ego kind of like shut up, cause I'm like, oh, it's terrible. No sleep or whatever. And this person goes in there and goes, yeah, you know, those are the worst nights. And I'm like, you don't have kids. You don't know what the hell you're talking about because when you lose sleep and you don't have kids, you always have the next day. You can always sleep in the next day. Yeah, yeah. Kids don't sleep in. They don't sleep in. So the next day is. I actually think that has a lot to do. I mean, obviously age plays a massive role and stuff like that too. But there is something to say about the psychological part when you were younger, single and no kids, of like when you know you were pushing the limits, but you knew that like, I'll just, I'll get it all back on Saturday. Yeah. Or tomorrow I won't get up till noon. Yeah, like sing your part. Versus when you're an older guy, you're a dad now, you got four kids and you're going, where am I going to recover this? Like you're like. It's gone forever. Yeah, cause you exactly. It's gone forever. A piece of me is gone forever. I'm gonna go back. Yeah, I'm gonna go back a year in life right here. No, you lost it forever, man. I was like, so I see that taxi to that come through. Oh yeah, those are the worst. Right away I would have be like, you don't know why cause your dog kept it one night. Yeah, I mean until the teenagers then they're just they'll sleep till noon. Isn't that weird too that that's a, is that, what is that? Do you know what the, the physiological, is there a physiological reason why teenagers go through this port of their life where all of a sudden you sleep. And I remember that too. Some developmental thing. Brain. Neuro, it's a brain. So it's a brain thing. Yeah. Muscle. The group of people that require the most sleep are teenage girls. So teenage girls actually require something like 10 hours of sleep versus the average person. So teen girls, and I know cause my daughter could do this, teen girls can sleep a lot and they need to for some reason. It's pretty crazy. You know who requires the least amount of sleep as you get older? Older. I know. It goes down. So if I recall seeing this chart, it's when you're very, very young, it's super high, right? The amount. And then you kind of plateau a little bit and then you spike it like teenage years and then it's a gradual drop all the way down for the rest of your life. Less and less and less and less sleep as you get older. It's all about the brain development and pruning and all that stuff. Yeah, I've always wondered why. It makes sense when you're young because your body's growing and you need dollars. I remember, do you guys remember that when you were a teenager and you could just sleep until like noon? I could sleep for 12, 14 hours. That's what I mean. You could grind and not sleep for a day or two doing something. Cause I would do things like that where I go like, yeah, it's okay though. Saturday, I got nothing. I'll just fucking sleep all day. And you could, you could lay in bed till four o'clock in the afternoon. That's the other thing too. I mean, I could kind of sleep in now but sleeping in for me would be like an hour pass when I wake up. My hips start to hurt. Yeah. Like on the side, I'm like, ah. It always wakes me up. It makes me angry. How many pillows do you use when you go to sleep now? Bro, I have like five. I swear to God. At least four, dude. Cause I have one on the face and they got one, I'm hugging and then I have two, you know. So you do that at home. To keep my hand up to my ass and reflux doesn't get all crazy. We always stay in the same room, right? So I adjusted that. I was meant to ask you that. Did you just cover the pillows? Yeah, he's always got like two pillows over his face like this. It's like a fortress pillow. He has a wall on one side. It's a pregnant lady with a bump into his leg. He's got a wall on his leg. Really, also it's protection, you know, in case Adam puts up the middle of the night. There's no way I'm getting in, dude. He's getting in this fortress pillow down there. Hey, you should get one of those pregnancy pillows, bro, the big, long ones. Bodies, you see this? Yeah, I've seen those. I don't know, that's a whole nother level right there. What do you mean? You already got four or five pillows. Just get a big ass. Once I do that, it's like, I mean. He's surrendered by then. Yeah, you're fully committed to that, all in. We should buy one for him, but have you seen those pillows with like these huge body pillows but they're like enemy characters? They're weird dudes that like to sleep with. I have like a face on it, let me talk about it. What's wrong with people? Hey, I was gonna ask you this. So you know what Justin told me where we were gone? Okay, so the audience knows, because it was on the show, he almost cut his finger off. He did cut a big ass chunk of his finger off. I did, it was a big chunk. Bro, within a few days, it's completely healed. I would say like maybe like two weeks, but yeah. Are you on BBC right now? Yes. Well, and we did the stem cell treatment. So I don't know, I'm like, I don't know. I feel like a lizard. I'm gonna be honest. Maybe I'm a lizard person and I've been like, oh, radar. You didn't know about it? Yeah, because I'm one of them. Yeah, I don't know, but like seriously, and people asked me at the NCI event about the finger because the episode dropped and it was like, I'm like, I'm embarrassed. It's like all the way healed. It's like a little scratch. It was like, oh, let me see your finger. He's like, look at it. See it right there. It's like all scar tissue. Wow, you made that big of a deal over there, huh? Layers grew back all the way to where it doesn't even have like a dent like it did before to where I had like a chunk like out of my finger. So I'm on BBC also and I cut my finger. Doug was there when I cut my finger and it's almost completely healed. That was only a few days ago. So I didn't notice that, but I think you're right. Okay, that's right. Do you remember? Well, I mean, that seems to be of all the peptides. That's the one that has the most research, the most positive feedback of what it's doing. Well, that's the one Dr. Seed said he would recommend the most. Every doctor, every person that I've talked to has said that BPC-157 has the most like backed, you know, research around what it's doing for people and it's been insane. And I mean, I experienced that with my Achilles. It was scary how it felt. I remember you were worried to go test it. Yeah, because it was like, the way I knew it just, it felt like weeks prior to make that big of a leap when I had been dealing with that injury for such a long period of time was like, this is kind of weird. Speaking of which, so is this, okay, just on the BPC front, like is that what they've found is the biggest impact is like tissue healing, you know? Yeah, okay. Yeah, across the board. Yeah, blood vessel healing, tissue healing and it's got some. Yeah, this is insane. It's actually got, I never talked about this, but BPC also in animal studies has been shown to reverse the damage caused by drugs that influence the dopamine system of the brain. So they'll give methamphetamines to rats and mice, which by the way, what do you want to mouth? That's such a fun experiment. Yeah, we do some drugs. But and then so causes certain structural damage, then they give the mice or rats, BPC and heals the brain. This is good for people by the way, who take stimulants for ADD or ADHD because it does impact a reward system. So there may be some, there may be something. Yeah, there may be something. I didn't know that. Anyway, speaking of peptides, so I gotta be careful how much I say, cause I don't want to say too much about this person. Otherwise people might know who he is, but I know somebody who is a very, he's like a Silicon Valley. Billionaire, you said? Person, yes. Okay, I can't say that. Yeah, I guess you can. No, you can't. That's like, whoops. And he's using, I think Terzepetide, I think it's Terzep or some of the, it's one of the GOP ones. He's not using it for weight loss. He's using it for sexual addiction. He's using it for addiction. So there are people right now who are using GOP ones, not for just to lose weight, but rather to help them with impulsive behaviors, which we talked about on previous episodes, which is wild. Wow. I just said week four, so I'm on one month. So it's still, what do you think? Wild. Yeah, it's fucking tripping me out. So yesterday was, so I started this at 2.31. I weighed this morning at 2.15. Oh my gosh, that's a lot, dude. Yeah, now again, I'm still, you heard me still kind of coughing a little bit. I have not had two full weeks of complete health. And so I want to be able to report back. That'll make you lose weight too. Yeah, and also too, you're trying to, I'm trying to read how I feel and signals and appetite and all those things like that. Like those are affected by my, how I feel too. My sleep's not the greatest with all these things. So there's some variables I want to get leveled out so I can really continue to report what's going on. But what has definitely been consistent that is interesting is day six is if there's ever a time where I think about something that I would have, like an ice cream, candy or a treat or something outside of like really whole food, healthy foods, it happens day six late afternoon in the evening, so before, so last night. Cause it's once a week. Yeah, it's a once a week injection. So you can totally tell. And it also makes sense why you're supposed to kind of keep going up as you go to week four, which by the way, I'm not going to do. We're going to keep that, I want to let you know that. You're going to stay on the low dose. I'm going to stay on the low dose. Yeah, cause I was going to say it wrong. Cause it's crushing the appetite more than I would like anyways in the first place. You literally did a full day where you didn't eat anything. We just realized that I was like, Oh my God, you didn't even eat like all day. Yeah, all day. Didn't even cause we were so busy and stuff like that. I actually had a protein bar. It's all I had that day. That was the total amount of calories I had and felt fine. Didn't have like the, and then the next day when, so that's happened in my life, right? Where you just get so busy, right? And you don't think of food. But then the next day, the body goes, Oh, I need it. And then I again, another, another day. So that's been crazy, right? And so last night. So I had like this little like, Oh, and we've had this ice cream in there. And I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go have some. I want to see how this goes down. Like I just wanted to see if I enjoyed it the same, if I could just have a little bit and put it away. If I had to like really think about that, or just like, bro, I ate a 10th of what I normally would have had and had no problem putting the rest of it back in the, in the freezer and felt 100% satisfied. I did not have this like, Oh, I want it. So for people that don't, That is fucking trippy. Something that hits that bro. Man, when I hit ice cream, you look out the strong one for you. Yes, I'll just, I'll take a drug. I've seen you. So what's weird, when I, the more, as I continue to look into this and you hear people's anecdotes and then you see, you know, what's coming out, this is going to be most likely going to be the, the biggest medical intervention across the board, bigger than, you know, Prozac, bigger than the PDE five inhibitors like Viagra, bigger than Stanton's. This probably is going to be one of the most widely used, these class of peptides, most widely used. And the addiction side of it's really weird. Addiction side is really going to be interesting. That's really weird. We're going to see massive division here. There's going to be a lot of hate on one side and a lot of love on the other side. We're going to see a ton of that, which is typical with anything that's like this groundbreaking and huge, right? Cause here's what's going to happen. There is going to be a whole subset of people that this is literally going to be, this is life-changing and amazing for them. Then there's going to be another subset of people that, that are just- There's a huge potential for abuse here. Looking for shortcuts. Yes. Looking for shortcuts. I had this great conversation with Christina, who's our friend, it's a coach. We've shot her on the show before. She has a psychology background. And so she's like a therapist first before a coach and trainer. And she really wanted, like she, she was really digging into me like to be like, well, don't you think this would be bad for these people and this and that and really challenging. And I'm like, listen, the verdict's not out with me as far as like, who for sure I would do this with and not do it with. The thing that we had this, she's like, you know, one of the things I do in therapy is when people have these triggers and stuff like that, that opens up an opportunity for me to go in there to work on it. That's right. Like, what was it that triggered that? She goes, so if it eliminates that, aren't you worried that these people are, and I'm, oh, I said, you're 100% right. Like, if you're not already thinking of like, I went into it and you heard how I'm talking already. Like, this is making me rethink my relationship with food. So I didn't go in it, like not thinking that there's potential work to it. You have the awareness of a trainer with two decades of experience working with other people, you know? Now think of you're somebody else who's just, And you're not working with a coach or not just you just take it. Who just wants to lose weight and then it has this miraculous, doesn't make you binge but then, but the real root of all that's binging is, because it's a coping mechanism. Okay, what people need to understand is that when you binge and you overeat food, it's just like somebody who, even though it's not because we justify it, but someone who smokes cigarettes, does drugs, whatever, sexual porn. Yeah, when you go into the point of damage and hurting yourself, which is what obesity is. Yes. There's something there. That you're coping. And so if it now cuts that off, then they're not, so, and I, this is her and I ping ponging back and forth. And I said, yeah, but you could also say this to them, though, maybe that helps them at least get through the initial weight loss and they get to that point and then maybe they get off of it and then it starts to come back and then you can start to, so I can see a lot of ways to work around it. Her perspective, I guess, like the ideal situation would be to kind of go through you know, a few weeks, a month, and then really detailing out a lot of the triggers, a lot of all this, and then going, you know, with the tresephalotide. There's also this, a significant minority of people who get heart disease or diabetes are not overweight. It's something like 20% or something like that of people who have heart attacks or who get diabetes are not overweight. What they are, what there's metabolic issues, they're undermuscled. And I wonder how many people who are obese, even just are undermuscled, which the data seems to show quite a bit. So what happens when you just eat less? You don't change anything else. You don't increase your protein intake. You don't start strength training. You just eat less. What happens is the body and the data on this is very clear. And it's not the GLP ones that are doing this, by the way. This is just, anytime you cut your calories, you eat the same way you were eating. You just eat less of it. You don't do any strength training. You don't modify protein intake. You just eat less. Your body adapts the lower energy intake by paring muscle down. So you're gonna get a bunch of people who are already undermuscled to lose muscle, theoretically. So I don't think this is a panacea. I think if it's used the right way with a trainer or coach or awareness, therapist, some modifications, this could be one of the most powerful. Yeah, I do regret a little bit of not doing a dexa first so I could show people, because I know I've lost muscle. There's no doubt in my mind I've lost muscle too. There's no way I lost that fast, eating the calories I'm eating and to not. Again, I had told you guys that I didn't care, right? The idea was... You're trying to go through the experience of the average person. Like a client, yeah. Not like the trainer guy in me who has the discipline to be like, oh, I need to eat right now because I need 60 more grams of protein. So I go make myself do it. I've proven myself I can do that to extreme levels, to extreme competitive physiques. So now I'm going about it like, okay, let's just allow it to take this course and see kind of where I land, how I feel and what's going on. But all in all, even with the fact that I've had these colds with that, I feel really good. Like my overall like inflammation on my body is like, you know, it makes me feel like, man, I had been in just this constant state of inflammation of even though even when the diet's good, quote unquote, I think that I was still inflamed. And my psoriasis has pointed to that too. Well, you first for years, decades, you pushed yourself, even when you weren't quote unquote trying to, you were pushing yourself to be bigger than probably what your body wants to be. I know it's the same way. And that consumption probably caused some inflammation. It has to. That's the only thing that makes- Your skin, I was telling you out there, your skin looks better than I've ever seen. It looks like he's younger, you know? I mean, I feel good too. I do feel low energy though. And that's obviously because of all these calories and also I'm recovering from being sick. So this is why I want to put two weeks here because I haven't had a great workout. The workouts I've got in have been like going through the motions like to get through it. But also understanding that I'm battling a cold and it was battling a flu bug the week before. And so I knew I couldn't like, I didn't want to, first day I feel kind of good. I didn't want to go slam it in the gym. And so I'm kind of tiptoeing my way around there. But all in all, I mean, my body feels really good. I've never seen, so because it's so effective, the potential for abuse is through. I could see, first off competitors abusing the hell out of this. I could see people who have food issues who just want to restrict, use the hell out of this to make it easier. That's the abuse potential there. Well, so I was sharing this with Jerry and Katrina and not to get too far ahead on, again, get over my skis on this yet until I see everything. But I am, my plan is no matter what because I see the power of it and knowing is that I'll keep a bottle of it always on hand. And I could see in times where I'm going to do something where I know I'm going to be challenged with overeating or eating out or bad, make it back, is using it just- Why not? Because it's not a fast and effective. It's not like it needs weeks to build up. I mean, I felt within day two or three, like I felt a difference. So I can imagine like I'm going on a trip for like a week and I'm like, oh, I'm just going to take it for this week. I'd rather come back low calorie, not ate very much than to over aid all kinds of shit. When you see something this potentially powerful, you always see market changes in other products and services that this affects. The processed food industry is freaking out. I talk about this already. Oh, I bet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get why. They're actually meeting with each other, trying to figure out how are we going to deal with this if this becomes widespread and mainstream. And there's even speculation, ready for this? There's even speculation that they're starting propaganda wars to try and scare people because if you're a snack food company- Misinformation campaigns? Yeah, dude. Because if you're a snack food company, like this will destroy your profit. Well, I cautioned the coaches and trainers I was talking to, you know, and I said, here's my thought process on this. I already know from what I've experienced and seen already, this shit ain't going away. And you as coaches and trainers are going to have to deal with it. Now, do not feel like you need to choose a side with it, because I feel like that's what's happening right now. You're either, I'm all 100% pro science and peptides and this is going to be miraculous. And then the other side of this is the worst thing for you and it's like- Stupid. Okay, yeah, both are stupid. This is cheating. There's going to be situations where this is going to be amazing for people. There's going to be situations where it's not going to be. As a coach and trainer, You need to figure it out. You need to be informed, educated about it and understand what the potential pitfalls are, what the benefits of it are and then be able to communicate that to your clients. I think- And you're working with a physician. I think this will be a, this potentially, this is I was telling the same trainers because they were like, why would someone want to work with a trainer? I'm like, are you kidding me? This could potentially like be a massive boom to the trainer industry. Because as people use this and just take it, they're going to lose muscle, they're going to lose strength. They're going to be like, oh my God, I need to do strength training. I think this is only going to fuel the strength training trend that's already started. I think it's going to make it even grow even faster because what people are going to do is they're going to go on these and they're going to be told by doctors, friends, and so on, you need to lift weights and do strength training when you're done. And they're going to need trainers for that. I agree with that because I agree with the whole statement that Dr. Gabriel Lyne said, which is that we're not overweight, we're under muscle. And I think we're already in that situation. This is certainly not, this is not a pro-muscle peptide. This is not something that is going to support. It just makes me less. Right. This is going to be great for obesity, be great for people that need to lose weight, that have struggled with binge eating, has bad habits around stuff like that. That's going to be, but then the next challenge that they're going to have after that is their doctors going to be like, hey, you need more muscle, you don't have enough muscle. And so I agree that's going to point back to a lot of trainers. So trainers and coaches that are going through it right now, you know, continue to learn, continue to get your- And know how to work with it. Yeah, and work with it instead of feeling like you need to choose a side of it's all good or it's all bad, it's going to be somewhere in the middle. Totally. And I think people using them are more likely to hire a trainer than people not using them. Just like men on TRT are more likely to go do strength training than people, not whatever. I think it's going to only make the industry grow. And speaking of which, the studies, and this is across the board, by the way, it reminded me of a study that my brother-in-law sent me. He sent me a study that showed the top causes of poor health. And the third one on there was like cigarettes, alcohol, something, something, and then it was sodium. And he goes, and now he trains jiu-jitsu four days a week, less weights, right? Eats a whole food diet. And he goes, hey, you know, I know you gave me the element tea to have during jiu-jitsu, he goes, should I stop taking that? Is that putting my sodium too high? I'm like, bro. I'm like, what they don't show with those studies, and this is true for all studies, by the way, and I'll explain another one here in a second. When you look at a study that connects high sodium to all these poor health outcomes, what they don't control for is that in modern societies, when people have a high sodium diet, it's a high processed food diet. If you control for that, the negatives go away. Especially if you're active, you're sweat, and you move a lot, you need to have that sodium. So I told him, do not cut your sodium intake because it'll crush you in jiu-jitsu. The other study that I could talk about with that, or studies, are the ones that show in a lot of these Mediterranean countries how drinking a glass of wine a day improves health. I had a trainer bring this up to me at the event as well. And he said, these studies that show like a glass of wine is good for you or not. He's like, what's going on? I said, it's just like the sodium studies. I said, what they're not controlling for in Mediterranean countries, if you have a glass of wine with dinner every night, it's probably because you're with other people and you're eating in a communal setting. These aren't people by themselves isolated drinking. So if you control for that, then what you'll see is the alcohol is a negative. But it's in that positive if you only have one glass, but you're doing it with friends and family. The positive of the social interaction outweighs the negative of just one glass of wine because of that. But if you control for just that, if you're by yourself in your house, watch TV drinking just alcohol or whatever. That's an interesting to speculate on too. I wonder, like I'm trying to think of it by my own behavior. That's the most benefit because they would try to deduce it down to like some of the resveratrol, some of the other like elements within the wine. Well, not only that though, but I'm trying to think of like your theory on like, if you were, if you're drinking by yourself, are you more likely to be someone to just have one glass? Are you more likely to, if you're drinking by yourself, someone who's gonna have three, four or five glasses because you're doing it to kind of medicate yourself versus I've done this many times where I'm just in a social environment or having dinner and like, oh, a nice wine would pair with that steak, you know, and so you have that. And so it's more likely that I'm with people when I'm having one. Like, do you think that there's a lot of people that just do one by themselves, drink one drink? I know in the Mediterranean countries- You already got a problem if you're drinking by yourself. Yeah, I hate to tell you. If you look at the studies that show that the benefit, a lot of them are these countries in Europe, France, Italy, Greece, and I know I'm from these countries, but you also look at the data. It's communal. They're enjoying a glass of wine with friends and family and eating together. Being with other people is tremendously beneficial. Good relationships are very good for your health. Bad relationships, terrible for your health. No relationships, worst. Isolating yourself is one of the worst possible things you could do for your health. So what they don't control for in those studies is that. Nobody's ever really controlling for that when they look at studies on that. But if you did, which I've seen people parse that out, because alcohol is not good for you across the board. There's no benefit to drinking alcohol unless you're doing it with other people. In which case, again, the social benefits outweigh the negative of the one glass. Stay home, stay safe, right? I wanted to ask you something. Speaking of stay home, stay safe. I wanted to ask you, Sal, about something that I never did until I met you. I was always this guy who got sick and then laid up forever. And you're so notorious for it. As soon as you think someone's even sick around you, you have like your stack of things that you do. And I've adopted that. And of course, I'm biased in that situations because I feel like, oh man, that makes a huge difference. Is there a research to support like, because right away, I go right to my elderberry, the zinc and then the green juice. All three of those, green juice and or immunity, but I feel like the green juice has a work. Organify. Yeah, so I do that. And I'm like, basically all I'm drinking in the daytime, like fluid-wise, I'm mixing either the immunity or the green juice with that. Or, and then I'm sucking on elderberry and then I have my zinc laws and your stuff. If I'm doing that within the first 24 hours of feeling like, did they have research to support what that does? Yeah, elderberry and zinc in particular, it reduces the severity and or the time. So it's not gonna prevent you from getting sick. No. But you'll get better a year or two faster. So what I think I feel, okay? What I think I feel is it doesn't ever feel like I don't get sick. It's like, if I get sick, but it just feels like it doesn't hit me nearly as hard. I mean, I would say like 50% less. Like it's significant. Elderberry for influenza and upper respiratory. It's been shown that zinc, lozenges, because the zinc they think has to do with preventing the replication of the virus in the throat, which is where a lot of it. Also zinc sprays that do in the nose is another one. So yeah, but it doesn't make you, it doesn't cure you. What also about like the like water and fluid and drinking lots of it? Because I feel like that's another, and this is also part of why I do the immunity and the green juice, because it keeps me drinking. Like, oh, I need to drink this. And I feel like when I'm drinking and peeing, I get through the cold faster. I don't know if it's so, I don't know if it's the like miraculous benefits of drinking a lot of water, or it's when people are sick, they tend to under-drink water. And so then they also get the compounding effects of dehydration. Oh, dehydration. Yes. So you know, okay, you guys have kids. You know this. When you have your kids, what does the doctor always say when your kids sick? Make sure they drink lots of fluids. The reason being, your kid will not reach for water like they normally do when they're sick. And you can see it in their lips sometimes. And so you have to like get them to drink because they're not feeling good. They don't want to get up and drink water. Is it harder for their body to regulate temperature and all that? Like in terms of like, well, cause obviously like it's beneficial if that happens and you get like to the point where you get a fever, cause you're fighting off, but at the same time too, like if you're not properly hydrated, I'm sure. Dehydration. Throw everything off. Body regulation, temperature regulation goes off. So I wonder, so I'm wondering, and then that makes me wonder if it's the actual water that I'm feeling the positive benefits or it's the green juice and all the vitamins and minerals that I'm getting inside there. So vitamin C, so immunity is high in vitamin C, but there's some other herbs in there that have been used historically for viruses. Vitamin C is mixed. So there's some data to show high doses of vitamin C can reduce the severity of colds, other data showing maybe not so much. It's tough, but you know, the stuff like Ayurvedic medicine, Chinese medicine, then there's like, you know, old wives tales I'll call it, but these are things that people have used for hundreds of years. There's benefit. And then oftentimes it takes us a long time to have studies to show that, oh, that's why it works. Like a good example is honey for coughs. I remember, you know, going to the doctor and saying, this one of my oldest was a kid, this was a long time ago. He has a cough. Should I give him some honey? The doctor's like, no, that's an old wives tale. And I remember I kept repeating that. And then a study comes out. By the way, honey has been used for coughs for ever. Hundreds of years. And with high performing singers. Yeah, yeah, forever. They find that there's a compound in honey that actually reduces the cough reflex. It somehow affects the brain in such a way. So they were right. They were right. So it just goes to shows like, anecdote that goes for 100 years, 200 years, thousands of years, just because we don't have a double blind placebo controlled study doesn't mean we should discredit an entire culture that says, if you take this for this, then it tends to help. Cause that's a lot of anecdote. It's not a study, but it's been around. If it's lasted for that many years, then it's probably got some good. I'm so annoyed with the community of people that like latch onto a single study so hard. And it's like becomes like dogma. I saw that one doctor again that did a viral post of a clip of you were talking about a study. God, what a, that guy's so annoying. You know what I get? I don't know if I get more upset at him doing dumb stuff like that. Cause whatever I know he's trying to do. He's trying to build his business. Yeah, we know what he's trying to do. Isn't he the guy that got paid by the beverage industry to talk about? And people think that he's like doing the Lord's work cause he's out there busting all these studies. And it's like, dude, there's way more nuance than this isolated study. It's not, and it's like, everyone thinks it's like this gotcha moment. Like ha, finally, we got salad. The context wasn't even there. So what we've always said, by the way, if he did literally 30 minutes of research, he would have seen for himself. By the way, anybody who does social media posts wearing a stethoscope is already stupid. Lab cut or anything like that. I mean, in our world, that's the same thing if you do an every post with no shirt on. No shirt on. Same thing, the no shirt or the lab cut. I mean, that's what you go to. But we've said this, look, the data on protein intake from vegan sources and animal sources is clear. So I'll have him watch this so he could try reposing this. The data shows, and he showed this in the study he quoted. When protein intake is high enough, it doesn't matter the source. But if it's not that high, and what he quoted was 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight, which is right around 0.6 to 0.8 grams per pound of body weight, which is what we quote. Or when we round it up to make it easy because we're trainers, when we talk to the average person, it's much more effective to be, to give them something easier to remember than it is to target 6, 5, 7, whatever. One gram per pound of body weight always kind of gets people to hit the mark, okay? But if you're below that 1.6 to use the data, grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, which is 2.2 pounds, when you go below that, then it matters. Then animal sources are superior for muscle building recovery and performance. So unless you're eating a high protein diet, the protein sources matter. If your protein intake is high, then you have enough amino acids and it doesn't really make a difference. Now, here's what Dr. Sanctimonius doesn't understand is we trained everyday average people. How many clients did you ever train? They hit over their protein. That hit those high protein intake on their own. One percent? Never. Barely. Never. So that's why we say, look, if you're gonna throw a shake in there, it's still not gonna get you that limit that we like, but why don't you make it way, it's better than this. Or even better, eat meat. It's gonna be better than the vegan sources. So that's all. But he took one clip and then- I know. And then the amount of people that come to his defense and then think that we don't know what we're talking about, it's like, dude, this is crazy. Internet's ridiculous, dude. Internet's wild, yeah. It's breeding dumber people is what it's doing. We have more information, more knowledge out there, but it's literally breeding more people because then people just violently follow because it's like, oh, he's an MD. What are you, a tattooed meat hit? What do you do? You can get whatever you want. Okay, guys. Okay. Really? Do people say that? Oh yeah, just tattooed me then? Yeah, yeah. I engaged for a minute and then I'm like, I gotta get out of here. No way. Yeah, I gotta get out of here. You know, a lot of positives happen though too, man. Again, this morning I'm working out in a commercial gym and the amount of people lifting weights properly and following, you know, doing good exercises is so much better than it used to be. I can't even believe it. Like all the squat racks were taken, people are deadlifting, women are bench pressing properly, arch back and grounded feet and overhead pressing. I'm watching people do box squats properly. I didn't see, nobody did that 15, 20 years ago. No, no. And you know what? As much as I literally, you just, I opened my DM today and I got this message from someone I've never spoken to before. It's like, I can't tell you how much your podcast has changed my life. I was so stuck in a binge restrict over-trained circle and I felt so misunderstood from the people around me that I really gave up on finding a partner at some point of my life. I've now, thankfully, to you, completely turned my life upside down and now train appropriately, feel better than I ever felt before and finally have made peace with my body. But also the stories about your family are so inspiring to me. Although I haven't found a partner yet, I know now that there are people out there who have some goals and mindsets as I do. Also loving myself was a huge step and without any relationship would have been useless anyways. Wow, that's great. I know. So for every one idiot that we have on the internet that posts stuff like that, luckily we have a balance of like 10 messages like that that will come in the same day and I just remind myself. We're just the prodigal son. That's how I look at it. You just gotta let them go and then they'll come back. Dude, I got to bring this up to you, Justin. I've learned something. This is real. Okay, this is a real deal. I learned something the other day about Beyonce. You know that there's all this conspiracy there, huh? Oh, wait a second. Yes, come on, let's bring on all the celebrity gossips. So did you know? Did you do a triple fact check before you talk about this? I did. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and make a statement here. What do you know? Well, I don't know. Okay, so we got called out a bit on our forum and I appreciate that. Oh, is this for the Tom Hanks thing? I know apparently Tom Hanks is the beloved golden one in some people's mind. He's a good actor. Yeah, he's great. I love his movies, you know? But I'm not the guy that's gonna defend any of these characters with their personal life because I don't know anything about them, right? And so I think there was some article like that satire that was promoted. And I mentioned Mark Wahlberg. Not wanting to work with him? Yeah, not wanting to work with him. So I just kind of regurgitated that and it wasn't completely accurate. It was satire, right? So I acknowledged that, you got me. But at the same time, like the Epstein thing, that was weird that they started to try to kind of also tie that in is like, that was also like fact-checked. Was it fact-checked? Cause they don't even have an official list of the Epstein list out there. And I've dug, trust me. And there's a lot of stuff on conspiracy internet land about Tom Hanks being portable. Exactly. There's like thousands and thousands of people just like incessantly like commenting about. So I'm not real quick to defend him. I'm just going to put that out there. So if you want to do that, you know, that's up to you when the information really comes out. But you know, for right now, you know, I'll admit, I was wrong, it was a satire piece. You got me. It's harder these days to kind of sift through all that for sure. Well, so this is not satire. So Beyonce's drummer put a restraining order on Beyonce. This was real. Do you know why? This was a while ago. Do you drummer or girl drummer? No, the female drummer. This happened and I looked it up. I'm like, is this real? So this was in 2018. Cause I'm like, can't be real. I looked it up. Her ex-drummer filed a restraining order against Beyonce. You ready for this? Do you want to know why? Why? Extreme witchcraft. Shut your face. Yes. Dude, that's- Shut your face. That Beyonce practiced extreme witchcraft was putting curses on people on her. What? Magic spells of sexual molestation. The harasser that she's like, I just need a restraining order on her or whatever. Yeah. See, now stuff like that. And you're just like, okay, you know, that's, that can't be true. Well, I mean, she put a restraining order on her for it. Yeah. Well, the Lizzo stuff too, right? Like she had all these like dancers coming out about all that. And that kind of came out and was, you know, inflammatory towards her. And then now she comes out later like, I quit. You know, like all like, you know, I'm just going to be, I'm just going to stop. Yeah. I actually, you know, the, the former member that, that called out the Tom Hanks. So first of all, I was tagged in there. So I was like, did I say that? I remember saying that. And you came forward and said that was you. So that was me. I didn't even remember it. I did, I did appreciate the conversation and dialogue I had with her. She didn't, I don't mind when people ask and challenge. I love that. That's great. And she was, but she, and I just was straightforward. Like, no, I don't think that I'm going to go back and fact check every celebrity God. I said that the part of the show that we, we claim to be is fitness experts. When we talk about studies and we talk about stuff related to that, you bet your ass were. The rest of it is just three dudes having. Yeah. That's right. The rest of it is like, there's no script to this. Like I had no idea. We're riffing, dude. Yeah. And, you know, you read something five minutes ago, you bring it up. The Aussie thing, like, I don't know. Yeah. Like I, yeah, exactly. I didn't go, I have no idea. I'm going to take his word for it. We're going to argue about it. We're going to laugh about it. It's like, that's part of the formula of the show is that there is our, our knowledge that we've acquired over, over two decades of training people that we bring to you that we promise is going to be factual and accurate. And then if we're ever wrong, we'll also the type of guys that will come out and say, hey, new study comes out or this is changed. This is no longer true. But not for celebrity gossip. But not for celebrity gossip. I'm not going to spend hours digging and doing homework just so I can have a conversation with my buddies about bullshit that I'm seeing on the internet. Like, that's just not happening. You know what's so funny about that is I, I like totally remember this being a formula, even with my clients. Like, you know, certain clients I'd have, like we'd start off with like, oh, did you hear? Beyonce, you know. And so you kind of get into it. And it's funny too. I have two other like celebrities. I'm going to bring up some stuff. So I did not know that Fred Durst. Okay. You know, amongst all these other projects he's done, like he actually like wrote a script and created a movie that had John Travolta in it. Really people. Wait, wait, wait. It was actual movie they made? Yes. What's it called? It's called the fan. Hold on. So no one's ever heard it. How did he get Travolta and we not hear it? I have no idea. So, oh, it's called a fanatic. Okay. And get this. So they actually like opened it up for 52 theaters. So this was like, they pushed it out there. Like it wasn't just like some, you know, like independent project or something. You know how much money it made? How much? $3,153 when it opened. With John Travolta in it? Yeah. $3,000. Travolta and it had, I guess also. Doug, can you pull this up? That's all family members. Yeah, it's in 2019. Can I see it? I want to see it. It was recent? Show me it. Show me a picture. Yeah, I had no idea. And so he plays like this autistic like psycho fan that's like basically stalking a celebrity. Shut up. Yeah. I want to watch it. I want to watch it. I know, I can't watch it. I want to watch it. The guy that was breaking it down and I got caught like this article that was talking about it, it was saying that it's like super quotable too. It's like a horrendously like great movie to like, you know, sometimes you watch bad movies. Sometimes bad movies are cult classics because they're so bad. Well, you can make a case like in a Napoleon Dynamite was like that. It's just so ridiculous. But it's so good because of that because it has a million one liners in it because it's so silly, right? So. Yeah, so I was super curious about that. Oh, I'm still going to watch this. I want to see. That's wild. Hey, that's our homework. What about Diddy? You haven't brought up Diddy yet. Do you guys like, do you want to talk about that? It's so dark. Do you guys want to talk about that? Bro, talk about not having to give you facts to fact check right now because that shit is like, we're in the throes now right now. All I know is I'm not arrested like so far. I heard leaked audio. I heard leaked audio that his bodyguard said he recorded. You sent that and that was that just. Bro, that was my whole day. I don't know what it is, but it sounds bad. I'm so, I'm so skeptical that with AI technology now, with like leaked audio, even visual, I'm questioning now because how great the AI technology is. How easy is it to fake some voices and insert stuff like that? Well, this sounded right. It was a lot of weird shit. By point, even more though, you know, how hard is it to fake stuff like that? Gross. It's, and why is he not arrested? If the FBI goes in, okay, like if they kick your door. They did a raid. Yeah, they do a raid like that. They kick your doors down. They've got something. You know, just randomly. They have enough for that. Yeah. Like you get a warrant like that to kick the doors down. Well, you know what art theory is, right? I say, I'm throwing Justin in this. Yeah. They're going in conspiracy theory. Not to, not to convict. I know to get the stuff. That's why I say it's because of all of the high profile celebrity, you know, you know, athletes, you know, yeah, like royal family, you know, like people like that that might be intertwined there that have dirt. So yeah, it's so crazy because I mean, of course, you know, in that world, that's a currency. You know, blackmail and having information about people is very valuable. So I think there's somebody, let me put my 10 foil out and play this game since I never do with you guys is that this is connected to the Epstein thing and whoever's in the, whoever it is that is powerful enough to make moves like this that was almost caught up in Epstein is also connected. So Epstein was to control politics and billionaires and some entertainment and then P Diddy was used to control the music industry and blackmail. For sure. There's crossover in those parties. Of course. For sure. There's crossover in those parties. So because they found all this again. There's definitely somebody, whether that's a, you know, somebody of royalty or a president or somebody who's got some serious power who I think has been to both and is cleaning up their trail. It's like, okay, I've got the Epstein thing handled because he's no longer here to give me, but I still got caught up in the P Diddy parties. And so I think whoever that is, that's where this is coming. Didn't Cat Williams say like, this is it? This year it's all going to come out. He said 2024 is a reckoning year. So that's where like, I'm like, all, instead of the media companies that have fact checkers and all that, like I'll go through Cat Williams. Hey, Bro, what's that called? He's pretty accurate so far. What's that when you're a genie? What's that? Mensa. Mensa. I keep trying to, so I was telling someone that who like tried to discredit him. I'm like, you know he's fucking Mensa, right? That's literally like. Very smart. Brilliant. Yeah. Like brilliant. Justin, did you ever watch in, in 2016, you just reminded me of this, there was an event that they did to kind of signify the opening or we're going to turn on the large Hadron Collider or whatever. Did you ever watch that? It was like a ritual, right? It's a ritual for reals. Like I saw a video of it in 2016, by the way. I heard about it. By the way, everything got weird after 2016. This is when the whole world seemed to have gone into another dimension. Yeah, this is where I hold. Yeah, see you later. I don't know, did you finish the octopus? No, we watched more though. Stop, finish it, please. I should have watched it. I was up anyway, right? I'll come babysit the kids for a day, just to go watch it. I'm fucking watch the damn thing. You know why? Because what you're saying right now, I'm like, oh, this shit has definitely been going on. This, this, this, like the opening of CERN, bro, I got to show you the video. Like it's the strain, it looks like a satanic ritual, the whole thing. Sacrifices, dead people, a portal, hell. And this was like for European leaders. I wonder why we are like weirdly obsessed with like, I don't know why people aren't weirdly obsessed with things like that. It's like, if you have a ritual, literally, if that physically happened, right? Like that happened at that spot before that opened up. Like, what are we dealing with here? Right? And now you have NASA sending four rockets, sound rockets, into, into the atmosphere, basically to study the eclipse. Hold on. Is it happening right now? Like shooting rockets? The eclipse happened, right? It already happened. I know scientific action has happened. Yeah, so they're talking about the ionosphere and like trying to like, when there's less rays of the sun coming out, like they see the temperature changes and all this and like how it's affecting, because the outer limits, you have the space station and so they're kind of seeing how that, you know, they can get a better accurate, like portrayal of like how it's affecting it. Yeah, but you're like, not steaming. But I'm like, no, it's definitely like a demon opening. Like that's cute, NASA. Yeah, we know it's really hot. We know what you're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're trying to go work with demons. You're bringing on Iowa. Yeah, AOI, I think it was an AOI. That's the conspiracy theory. Do you think the, the acceleration of all this is because also the growth and wealth, because when people reach a level of money wealth and the next thing is power control and weird shit like that, like I really feel like, and that's why it's not a far-fetched conspiracy for me to think that it's all these celebrities. I think people, more people think it's, the people that think it's like, why would they, I'll tell you why, because when you get to a point, and I was just listening to Will Smith talk about it, and you could tell, you could see it in his face. He had this interview just recently on a podcast that he, and remember when who else came out and said this about when he was, Jim Carrey, about wishing that people could experience, they almost talk about it as a miserable thing to having so much money that you could literally buy anything and everything, because it really puts you in this weird predicament of like, why am I not happy? Yeah, yeah. What am I, what am I, what am I? I watched an interview with Jordan Peterson and Matt Walsh, and Matt Walsh can come, definitely be a douche sometimes. And so he had did a tweet that said something like, depression isn't real, I don't remember what it was. Jordan Peterson educated him, and he was very good at it, and he made some incredible points. He said in the past, questions of existential crisis were answered by spiritual leaders or philosophers. Now we've done it all with doctors who don't have any background on that. He says that's a big problem, you need to be able to understand all of that. And if you understand what the philosophers or spiritual leaders have talked about for years, sin is literally moving away from where you're supposed to move. And one of the problems with sin is that more you move towards sin, the bigger and worse the sin gets, because it's like drinking seawater. I'm not thirsty. Oh no, I'm thirstier. Oh no, I'm thirstier. So it gets worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And so very, very good. Based off of that, that makes so much sense of the super powerful, wealthy. Yeah, the drug, sex, money. This isn't enough, more drugs, more sex, more money. This isn't enough, and you keep going, and you have to either face the fact that like, maybe that's not the direction, or I'm going to keep chasing that. You know, that's why you have all those problems. Wow, interesting. I know, good stuff. In today's episode, you heard us talk about terzepotides, semi-glutide, or GLP1 agonist. We also talked about BPC-157 and testosterone replacement therapy. If you're interested in peptides or hormone replacement, go to mphormones.com. Doctors will work with you. It's real prescriptions coming from FDA regulated laboratories and pharmaceutical companies, so it's not just something online that you get that you don't know what's in there. This is legit, mphormones.com. They'll help you out. Go check them out. All right? Here comes the show. Our first caller is Nick from California. What's up, Nick? What you doing, Nick? What's happening? Who's going to be in Lodi? I am. My best friend lives in Lodi. I go there all the time. Oh, right on. I have a restaurant here. Oh, you do? Yeah, I come through. Yeah. What's the restaurant? It's called Guantonios. Guantonios? Yeah. All right. I'm writing it down. Oh, your last name, I'm assuming. Is that what that is? It's our family name. It got changed in the 50s when it wasn't so great to be Italian in the US. So I'll be there on Friday, Saturday. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. I'm going to hit you up. Charging full price. He makes a lot of money. How can we help you, man? So just getting back in the gym and playing sports and things in high school and then kind of kept that up through college. But then with work and life and everything kind of got out of working out as much and not much at all the last, probably 10 years with travel and getting the restaurant open and all that kind of stuff. So within the last six or seven months, finally got my butt back in gym, working out, getting healthy, was doing research for opening restaurants. So like I say, eating like an asshole and drinking like an asshole for 15 years. But it was part of my old job doing sales. I was basically paid to eat. I was working in the meat industry. So anyway, got back in the gym with the help of a good buddy of mine. And within the last six months lost 30 pounds while putting on muscle. Listen to you guys regularly and hearing the same info. So I protein has been hitting those protein targets have been a big part of helping me kind of clean up my food and a lot of egg whites and chicken breasts and veggies and quinoa. So did it the right way, not eating, but also putting on muscle. So got some blood work done with my trainer kind of suggesting and then coach mentor of mine that I've been working with kind of suggesting getting some blood work done just to kind of see where we're at. Got some family history with heart disease and all that kind of stuff. So got that back and there's some other things on there. But my main question is about the TRT and then enclopamine or however you pronounce that. My they got my testosterone in the 400s. My trainer that I work with, so I do CrossFit and then I added in some strength training on top of that. But he seems to think in that 400 range is fine and look at it again in three to six months and see where we're at. Of course the company suggesting some either TRT or the enclopamine. And then my coach trainer kind of not trainer but coach mentor suggesting one of the above. And I know you guys have talked about Shilajit in the past as a natural kind of testosterone enhancer. And as I wrote in my email, I do see some fatigue and I'm a father of four and being a chef and owning a restaurant and different hours trying to keep my sleep pattern as close as possible. But just sometimes it's just not possible. I do see all those things that you hear about with low T. So I just thought get an unbiased educated opinion from you guys and appreciate you taking my call and email. Damn bro, you are a father of four, a chef, restaurant owner and CrossFit guy. You got a lot dude. Yeah, I think you probably can positively affect your natural testosterone quite effectively without doing anything. In terms of medical intervention. So enclomaphen is what you're referring to. This is a, in the old days they would use something called clomaphen. This is a selective estrogen receptor modulator. By blocking the estrogen receptor, it actually causes the body to produce more testosterone. So it is one medical intervention way of raising testosterone naturally. The challenge is going off the enclomaphen then you lose that signal. And so where do you go from there? TRT is testosterone. This is just testosterone that you inject once a week. Sometimes they have gels or creams that you can use. And that'll raise your testosterone artificially. And now here's the deal. You'll get, you'll feel stronger. You'll build more muscle. The beetle will definitely go up with TRT, possibly within clomaphen as well. But the problem is you may be blunting some of the signals that your body is telling you that are based off your lifestyle. In other words, if your testosterone is at 430 and let's say that's low for you, right? Let's say if you were doing everything optimally, your testosterone would be closer to 650 to 800 or 850. Then taking testosterone, it'll fix some of the symptoms, but it's not addressing the root issues. So at a 430 level with what you're doing, if you were my client, I would look at lifestyle factors to see if we can affect your testosterone a positive way. And the places I would look first or sleep is your sleep consistently good on a day in, day out basis. And then number two is your training and how many days a week are you working out? How many days a week are you doing this CrossFit and then the strength training? Four to five. Okay. You might be overdoing it, especially if you're doing a CrossFit style of training, or you're doing this kind of high intensity type of deal. How often is the CrossFit happening? Yeah, four to five times a week. Oh, wow. Yeah. I would back off. I would do more traditional strength training two to three days a week at most. And then I would be active on the other days. I would look at just regular total activity. I would have good clean diet like you're doing. And I'd look at my sleep. I'd be very consistent with my sleep. And then you could supplement with nutrients that if they're low, tend to cause testosterone issues. Vitamin D, boron, zinc. These are the more common offenders. And then I'd see where you're at in 60 days. And now I have experience with clients with this. I had one guy who's testosterone went from 400 to 900. I had another guy go from the 300s to the 650s. So you can make a big, I mean, testosterone fluctuates pretty dramatically based off of lifestyle and some of the things I mentioned. Over-training or doing a lot. You might be able to tolerate the workouts, but I don't know if it's optimal. It might be too much, especially considering all the things for kids and owning a restaurant. That's a lot. I have family members that own restaurants. That's one of the more stressful things to do. One of the more difficult entrepreneurial processes. So that's where I would go first. Yeah, I would love to see if you let me. I would really prefer to see you on like a MAPS anabolic routine. Totally. You know, two to three times a week, full body type of routine, prioritize the sleep. A lot of my training would be around, you know, trying to relieve the stress. And sometimes too, when you have a lot, you have four kids, you have all this going on. Sometimes we think that the feeling that we get from kind of beating ourselves up in the workout is this sense of relief, but it really isn't. I mean, it's just your- Cortisol feels good. Yeah, it feels temporarily good, but it's not doing yourself a favor. Like you'd be better off scaling back on the intensity and I do think that you're- Yeah. And if it's difficult to hear that or want to do that, because maybe you really love doing CrossFit, which I'm sure you do, you know, I would just urge you to try it for 30 days. Like give me 30 days of you kind of following what I want you to follow, go back and retest, and let's see what the testosterone naturally does. And my guess is I think just by scaling back on the volume and intensity of training, and then putting some, you know, prioritizing sleep and trying to improve that, I think you'll see a difference in testosterone. And if it doesn't significantly move, then, you know, TRT, I mean, you have four kids. I'm assuming you don't want any more kids? No, we're good, right there. Scientifically not able to anymore. Okay, I have four kids too. So it's like, you know, at that point, if you don't mind taking testosterone for the rest of your life, there's nothing wrong with it. And you'll definitely, and you'll feel good if you can't raise your testosterone naturally through lifestyle changes. But I'll be quite blunt. Good, healthy, natural high levels of testosterone is better for you than high testosterone levels from, you know, medical intervention. Because your testosterone levels, natural testosterone levels fluctuate. They move with your body and your stress. Having artificially high testosterone with high stress isn't necessarily a good thing. There's a reason why your body lowers its testosterone when you're under a lot of stress. So, you know, that's just, yeah. And this is coming from someone who, I'm on TRT myself. I couldn't get it to move up naturally, but that's a whole other story. So that's the direction I would go in. And you would know, you would know within 45 to 60 days if it was working. Yeah, that's what I say. I mean, you give me a good solid 30 days. I think you'll even start to notice a difference in 30 days. You should feel, you should feel better. You should, some things you should notice is strength going up and energy levels more sustained just by simply doing that. Then you know you're on the right track. If we don't feel that and see that or notice that, then, you know, maybe TRT is just another blood. Do you get another blood test? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay. All right. That's it, man. Appreciate it. Oh, do we, do you have MAPS anabolic already? No, I don't. Okay, we'll send that to you. We'll send that over to you. Yeah, for sure, man. Okay. Appreciate it, fellas. You got it, brother. Let's see if I try and book a Friday or Saturday night with you. Yeah, yeah. All right. You know, get, yeah, send me an email or through social media or whatever we'll get you set up. Right on, man. You got it, man. Thank you. Thanks, Oz. Here. While we were talking, Doug brought up pictures of the restaurant. Looks bomb. Oh, my God. I already sent a text to Katrina to it. We're eating here. Until we get our schedule over. That looked good. I'm going. That looked really good. Yeah, so, you know, 430, you know, total is not low. It's not optimal. Yeah. But it's not low. Considering all the things that he's doing, God, I hate saying this because, you know, he obviously likes his trainer. And I know there's different ways of applying quote, unquote, CrossFit. But if somebody says, in my experience, I'm a CrossFit trainer and I train people CrossFit, it's 99.9% of the time too much for the person that they're training. They find out kind of like what they can tolerate. Yes. And I think that's just kind of the state he's in right now. It's like, I'm going to, I'm doing what I can do right now that I can tolerate, but it's not necessarily benefiting me. I don't know what he, I don't honestly know that he knows what that feels like right now. Well, I don't, you know, I didn't feel like I got pushed back from him. So I do. I mean, hopefully, but I also don't know if you just said, yeah, fuck these guys. I mean, he might have a great connection. I get a lot of that from CrossFit guys. Yeah. And it's just, you know, when CrossFit, the brand, okay, of CrossFit style training is really, it's really only appropriate for people who compete in CrossFit. You know, it's funny. For a person getting in better shape, it's not an appropriate way to work out. By the way, it's a sport. Yeah. I hadn't shared this with you guys, but he was rocking the creatures of Habit Hat, which, you know, Mike is a big CrossFit guy and was actually messaging me last week that he's got to, he needs to start switching his training because it's taking, it's taking a toll on his, on his body. It's, it's, it's, I have a love of hate. And I have a love hate relationship with them. They did some things in the fitness industry that everybody else failed to do. They got people to squat and deadlift and barbells became cool. They got women to lift weights better than anybody else. And that's true. They also did some stupid shit. Like beat the crap out of people and take everyday people and say, this is how you need to work out. And we're going to do circuits with Olympic lifting and just insane, not great programming. So people just need to know there's other options out there. Thankfully, our next caller is Aline from Toronto. Aline, how can we help you? Hi, oh my God, guys, so exciting. Thank you so much for all the information that you guys put out and everything that you do. I'm also a shout out to my sister, Anna. She's the one that introduced me to you guys. Just as a background, I've been lifting consistently for about five years, kind of started off doing all the wrong things. I would run a 5k before every lift. And I just wasn't eating enough, but slowly started learning more about, you know, the importance of protein, importance of sleep, and just eating enough to, you know, build muscle. I recently bought maps in Ebola. I've run it once already now in my second time running it through. And it's been amazing. I haven't seen, like, I hadn't seen for body gains like that until this program. And it's been incredible. My question for you is I love running and I am inspired by these quote unquote hybrid athletes online, like MacBaren, Lucie Davis, who both run a weight lift. And I wanted to implement sort of system to allow me to continue to build muscle, but also continue to run. So yeah, I was just wondering if you guys had any suggestions on, what kind of programs to follow when I'm kind of training for races and what kind of programs to use when I'm like really trying to build. Yeah, that's great. Maps cardio. So you like running because you like running. It's not for physique goals. It's because you enjoy the run itself. No, yes, I do enjoy running. You know, the best way to do this is to train in seasons. So when you have a run coming up, you train for the run and you follow a program like Adam said, it like maps cardio, which would be more appropriate. And then when you're out of that season of running, you would do something more like a maps anabolic or a map strong or map symmetry. And you would just do enough, just enough running just to keep yourself, you know, from losing the ability to run. And so you would just train in cycles and seasons. That's the best way to do it. If you want to kind of be able to do both doing it all at once, not a good idea. Yeah, off season, twice a week on your off days of training would be fine. So like running an anabolic and I think putting in a run two times a week would be enough to sustain like definitely the ability to go out and run like you want to. And then in season running something like maps cardio. Well, yeah, I actually, I mean, I love maps anabolic, but I think performance might be a better fit just because, you know, you're running and you're fixated in that one plane. No, definitely. You're right. To be able to strengthen and support you, you know, so that way too, because inevitably, like we do, we get into these patterns where we're just constantly applying the same type of stress in the same direction. So to kind of disperse that, make sure that you have, you know, good supporter on your joints would be good. Yeah. That would be the number one thing that I would caution you about the, you know, going after like the hybrid athlete thing and seeing these weightlifting and runners and stuff like that. Like, and I don't know, Nick's pretty cool. Like I know we know him really well and he's a good dude. I don't know how I don't follow. He trains in seasons. I know. And I don't know how much he like shares about if he suffers from like, you know, knee, hip stuff, but that's the most common thing you hear with people that are trying to do both is they're not addressing kind of what Justin is saying, and then they get these chronic nagging pains and then they ignore it and they still power through when that's a body telling you like there's something off in your pattern. Because when you do something like that, you know, repetitively for miles and miles, like it doesn't take much of being off. Your heel strikes just a little off and that just compounds over time. And so just be aware of that stuff, be aware of it. And since you're not, you're not competing, you know, trying to be hit PRs or doing crazy, listen to your body. And when you hear it talking to you like that, go back and address it. And I agree. Maps performance is probably the best. The mentality is like this is I'm focusing more, I'm focusing on building muscle in this season. So more of my training is geared in that way and less of it is geared towards endurance or running. Now I'm in another season. Now I want to focus more on running. So now I'm going to do more of my training and running and less of it with strength training and be very judicious with this. The trap is I'm going to do strength training and focus on running or I'm in this season of running. Now I want to build muscle, but I want to lose what I just got with the running season. So now I'm just going to do all of it. This is where people tend to screw themselves up. But if you train in seasons and get used to how they feel, they feel very different. So you'll notice with the strength training season, tighter body, things feel solid. You got nice sculpt, good metabolism and appetite. That's what that feels like. The training feels different. Now when I'm training for the running, okay, body softens a little bit, but I have the endurance. I have the stamina. I get those endorphins when I'm running. You know what that feels like. It's very seasonal. But if you try to do it all at once, this is where people tend to really screw up is they don't want to give any of the other to pursue the other one. Right. I feel like that's definitely where I've kind of screwed up in the past. And I was actually going to ask about performance because it seems like a good program for me to kind of do as well. So would I be doing that one kind of during the weightlifting season? During the weightlifting season. Yeah, performance weightlifting season and then switch to MAPS cardio. And you can modify MAPS cardio for what you... Because we program cardio in there. But when we alternate through different modes of cardio, if you're primarily just interested in running, you can make running your primary cardio. So wherever it recommends cardio sessions, you would just insert your runs. Just to give you an idea, like when I used to train... Running in the off days to kind of make sure that that's still a skill that you have. Yeah. So when I used to train clients that ran marathons, when they were training for a marathon, we would do one day a week of strength training. That's it. And it would be like four exercises. That's all they did in the season of training for the marathon. Then when they would stop the marathon, then we'd move up to three days a week of strength training and then they'd run once or twice a week just to kind of maintain that endurance. So that's what it looked like. But when they were doing a marathon training, it was one day a week. I have never trained a marathon runner where we did better with more than one day a week of strength training. It was always one day a week was that was it. More than that would take away the performance. Right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. And before I just wanted to say, like my sister and I have been trying to get our parents to it to get into weightlifting. They're kind of resistant to it, but we were able to get my mom to get started on anabolic. And yeah, just thank you so much because they're very important people in my life. And we know all about how muscle is important for longevity. So it was only through you guys that we're able to get to them. So thank you. That's awesome. That's awesome. By the way, do you have performance? If you don't, we'll send that to you. No, I don't have performance. That'd be amazing. You got it. Awesome. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. Thanks. It's true though. Parents do like us. I mean, I don't know about you guys. Parents love me. We're a big group. I am a parent now. It's our parents. I know. Yeah, it's trying to do everything at once to where people tend to screw up. If you train in seasons, that whole hybrid model, I mean, to be quite honest, if you want longevity with fitness, that's kind of what it should look like. It should look, you should train in seasons, mobility, strength, endurance. It's the best way to actually acquire those skills. Yes. Well, she has the right attitude too. Like if you see it, we didn't say it, but she says it in her question here. She talks about that, I don't need to run a three hour marathon. I'm not trying to hit crazy PRs in the gym. She just enjoys it. Yeah. So she enjoys it. And then all she really needs to do as she goes through this process is to listen to your body, because it'll let you know when you've been doing too much of one or the other, and then to just be able to back off and scale or change and pivot directions. And because she doesn't have this major, oh, I got to do this, or I have to do this, it's totally okay. It's like, hey, you could be in the middle of your run, season, or training, and realize that the aches and pain are coming. Hey, nothing wrong with pivoting out of it. And say, hey, you know what? I can tell my body's talking to me. I need to move over into the more mobility, unilateral work and start addressing those things. And then when you feel good, hey, let's come back into it. Like that's in the real world, that's how with this client who has these goals, we don't have very specific dates we have to get ready for, this is how I would work you is that we're not going to say it has to be this way. We're going to move in this direction with a plan, like you're saying, which is, we have an off season, we have an in season, this is the program we run, but that doesn't mean that we might not pivot. We're still going to supplement it. That's right. We might change something out or pivot if your body starts talking to you. Our next caller is Ben from California. What's up, Ben? Oh, thanks for having me on, guys. I really appreciate your time. You got it, man. How can we help you? So I had a quick question, and this actually was about a new type of workout that my wife has been doing. Just a quick background. She is a college athlete and really did work with a lot of strength training, weight training and is very proficient in those things. But her concern was she got too big and quote bulky when she was in college. I really never liked her shape, kind of big quads, wide shoulders. I didn't know her then, so I'm just taking her word for it. She does understand the importance of weight training, but seems to gravitate towards more of the Pilates and other group type fitness classes. So my question is she's in this group fitness class, and I know you're already not liking it. Where these participants get into this body suit that's hooked up to an EMS stimulus, which intermittently contracts the major muscle groups who are approximately like a 25 minute workout. Workout consists of mostly body weight exercises like squats, push-ups, lunges, etc., with some mixing in a bicep curl, shoulder presses, but these are with like five pound dumbbells. So you're all the while getting this EMS current, every 10 seconds that's contracting all the major muscle groups. So I'm not quite sure if this type of workout is actually building strength and muscle for her. My question really is would having this outside source of EMS contractions elicit hypertrophy or is it a waste of time? It's a waste of time. This is a gimmick. It's a new gimmick, right? Have you seen all these now? No, it's circulating again right now. Okay, so EMS has been around for a long time. We have lots of data on EMS. Electronic muscle stimulation or electric muscle stimulation has benefits for reducing atrophy when people are immobile or through therapy, right? So you tore your knee, you can't do anything. It's immobilized. So you could use EMS on the quads and hamstrings and it'll reduce the amount of atrophy, but it's not an effective muscle building tool. Now, in this class, this is very gimmicky and nine out of 10 times classes are gimmicky and you'll see this all the time. They'll have drums that they do or they'll hang from something or they'll call it some weird thing or they'll combine two fads like Pilates and yoga, Pyo, or strength training and Pilates, you know? Have you seen those spring shoes? Yeah, it's very gimmicky. So what the EMS is doing is it's just making the workout feel harder. So as you're moving, it's contracting muscles that either oppose the movement or go with the movement to make you feel like, oh my God, I'm squeezing really hard. Are you getting any additional benefit? No, it's not doing anything. It's an intensity-based group exercise class with a gimmick, really not that different from any other quote-unquote strength training group class. So in terms of in comparison to, let's say, traditional strength training, it wouldn't come close. So this was when Katrina and I first started dating, this was kind of one of the hurdles I had to overcome. Although she wasn't as hardcore into group classes, she was hardcore into circuit type training. And that's how she had trainers, trainer in the past. She was an ex-collegiate athlete. And her big fear was she would say she's boxy. She had broad shoulders and wider hips and she hated that. She would, oh man, when I lift weights, I just get this boxy look. And so she would always defer to these circuit running, sweating type classes because it made her feel like she wasn't getting bulky. And I explained to her that it's all about how you lift and train and how you diet with that. And a lot of this is done through nutrition and making sure that I'm feeding you properly while also building and sculpting the physique. Because even I said, even if I build your shoulders, which sounds so scary to you, if we do that while also tapering your waist in, you'll get more of an hourglass look and you'll like your look, even though I built your shoulders. So a lot of this has to do with, you know, building and sculpting the physique and then also diet and eating properly with that. And she would be far better off running a MAPS anabolic program, following a good diet, and getting and dieting to be lean. And she'll see the look she wants. What sport did she play in college? She was a diver. So, okay, all right. So similar, broad shoulder, right? She probably complains about broad shoulders or feeling that way. That's a structure thing. I, you know, the only time I've ever worked with somebody of female where I saw that this was like a thing was a shop putter. And that's just, that's like a whole another level of genetic development that she was built, a particular way. But yeah, if your wife strength trained appropriately, sculpted her body in ways that, you know, she wanted focus more here, less here, and then worked with her diet, she'd get what she thinks she's going to get out of these crappy classes. She'd get the body she thinks she's going to get out of doing these classes, what I'm trying to say. Okay. And so that was my follow-up question that you would recommend, say, like a MAPS anabolic program for her. She's, she'll be 42 next week, but she's still fairly, very active. Is that the route you'd take? Yeah, I'd start her there. And then I'd actually like, Katrina loved aesthetic. She felt that she got a lot of that from aesthetic because she's a big fan of that. Yeah. So, especially she, because she's trying to sculpt her body to look a certain way. And she's was concerned about it looking boxing. So I ran her on anabolic first and dieted her properly through it. And then I went into aesthetic afterwards. And she, she loved the results from aesthetic. Okay. And thank you guys. I really appreciate your time. Did I see you have, do you have anabolic already? Yeah, I actually have both programs. So I think I'm all set. Okay, right on, dude. Yeah. Keep us, keep us posted, Ben. Good luck. All right. Thank you so much, guys. Appreciate your time. Let me ask you guys a question. What percentage of the time when a woman would come to you and say, man, when I lift weights, I get bulky. What percentage of the time was it the weights? Was it actually the weight training that did that? It never is. It's nice. No, it's never, it's never that. It's hard. So, you know, I mean, it's so like, I saw a picture of, what's his name? The wrestler that went to the W, there was WWE went to the UFC. Big, Jack, huge. Brock Lesnar. Okay. His daughter. I just saw a picture of her. That would be the case where I'd be like, okay, I believe you. I don't know if you guys see a picture of her. She looks like Brock Lesnar with long hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, 99.999% of women just, that's not the problem. The problem is diet. And what you're, what you're attributing to the weight training is not, has nothing to do with you building tons of muscle. That's not what's happening. Yeah. Katrina was, she was eating a lot of foods that, uh, yeah, that she was intolerant to. She didn't know. She was, so she was constantly in a state of inflammation. So she was always bloat. Yep, a lot of bloat, a lot of extra water. And then you added weight training to that and it would just make her feel bigger and wider. And there was nothing that I could originally do to convince her. That's why I had to let her come to me, right? It took years of dating before she finally, okay, tell me what you do. I say, okay, we're going to lift like that. You're going to lift heavy. Like I'm trying to bulk you up, but then I want you to eat this way. And we're going to cut out these foods, cut out these foods, hit your protein and take. And then it only took about 30 to 60 days of her seeing like the body start to shape up and she realized. She's going to have a hard time pitching this. This is why you have to do that stuff for them. I mean, I imagine it was hard for us. Yes, that's what I mean. And we're like professionally doing it. I got a top ring podcast, honey. I mean, hopefully she'll at least listen to this conversation. And just like I told Katrina, I don't need very much time. Just trust me. And the diet will be huge. So I'm going to tell you like, I don't obviously, I don't know her, but if that very well could be adding to the problem because I do know that you add weight training to somebody who's also eating an inflammatory diet. And it will feel like it's bulking you up. Yeah. But if you eat the diet right and you're tight and you will tighten up. That's right. That waist will come in. And even if the shoulders brought, and this is what I had to tell Katrina, like even if I build an extra inch on your shoulders. Which you're not going to do. Yeah, but you will taper your waist in. It's going to give you the hourglass look that I know you want. So just trust the process. And of course it did. Our next caller is Becky from the UK. Hi, Becky. How you doing, Becky? How can we help you? Hi, guys. Good morning. So nice to see you. Yes, thank you. How can we help you? Well, actually, do you know what? I emailed in on Sunday and I was really surprised to get a message back yesterday to say, would you like to come on the podcast? So super quick. I was impressed. Awesome. Thank you. The only thing is I am doing this Zoom link through my phone and the email. I don't know if I can get it up to read my question. Doug can read it. Yeah. Is that okay? Yeah. Do you want me to read the whole question? Yes, please. Doug, do you mind? Okay, sure. So you're a 39-year-old busy mom who's recently gone back to work pretty much full-time and is eating into your usual routine. I've been bulking for a while now, recently started a cut, and have a nutrition coach to guide you through this. Let's see. Oh, neat is really important. How should I prioritize this over lifting weights? I'm currently lifting three times a week, but if I have a low step count, I wonder if subbing one of the lifting sessions for a big walk is the best way to go, or does it not make much of a difference? I'm fully aware that building muscle really helps with revving up your metabolism to burn more calories in the long run, but it's only 45 minutes to an hour compared to a full day of walking around doing life. My usual step count has always been around 7,000-8,000 steps per day, but I've up to 10,000 minimum for this fat loss phase. I have about three to five kilograms to lose. My lifting routine is mainly a full-body power lifting style, and I change it up every three months or so. I've done MAPS anabolic, Prime Pro, Performance, and Strong. I'm just going through the motions for the health benefits of lifting weights, and as a long-time lifter with decent muscle mass, I feel I can pull back from it for a while to get more steps in. I wouldn't trade strength training for more steps. Definitely not. Unless you like to walk more, and you just want to get better at walking for enjoyment. Yeah, but I wouldn't trade them. The strength training is going to give you more results. Does it need to be an either or? I mean, because I love you following a MAPS anabolic type of protocol, right? Three days of full-body routine. I love what you're doing there. And instead of saying, hey, should I cut one day out and then just go for longer walks? I mean, can you still walk that day for 20 minutes here or there? There's just too much. People think the workout, right? A lifting weights, if you compared your full day of walking, like you said, to a day of lifting weights, if you compared to the calories you burned in the comparing the two, the lifting weight session is less in calories than 10,000 steps of walking, but it pales into comparison of what you get benefit-wise for building muscle and the recovery process and speeding the metabolism up. It's way, way. Yeah, what are these long? So what does it look like, 78,000 or 10,000 steps a day on the days you don't lift weights? Is that what you're saying? No, so it's, yeah, sorry. So when I'm not lifting, I'm aiming for, well, every day I'm aiming for at least 10,000, but on the days that I've been lifting and working, I'm barely scraping 5,000, 6,000. So I'm trying to make up. Oh. I get what you're saying. Yeah, you're saying. No, you're better with the lifting. Yeah, you're still better. Don't trade them. You're still better with the lifting. Yeah, mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my job is pretty active. I don't have a huge step count, though. So I mean, I'm getting plenty of movement at work. Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. Like, okay, so when you think of steps or cardio, don't think in terms of fat loss. Just think in terms of health. It improves my health. Okay. When it comes to fat loss or getting lean, sculpted, you know, the aesthetic type of stuff, strength training is the way to go. Now, that also improves your health, too. So it's all good for you. But if you're trying to accelerate in terms of, you know, aesthetic results, training, strength training for walking will reduce that progress. So, yeah. Unless you hate the strength training, you love walking in which case it's a go for it. But if it's just for the aesthetics, yeah. If it's for the aesthetics, don't trade them. No. Definitely not. Okay. No. Okay. And you can also, where are you at calorie-wise? Are you tracking calories? Do you know how many you're eating a day? I do, yeah. So my coach has got me on a range between 1750 and 1900. Okay. How long have you been doing that for? So I'm just going into my third week with her. Oh, okay. Okay. And you're reverse dieting, right? No, the other one. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, are you increasing calories over time or are you reducing calories right now? We're increasing. We're reducing. Oh, you're already in a cut. Yeah, she's in a cut right now. Yeah. Yeah. But she's only been doing that for three weeks and she's only got, would you say, three to five kilograms or something like that to go? Sounds like seven, eight pounds. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're not, you're not. Not a huge amount, but I'm not, I'm not losing for aesthetic purposes. I've got some pull-up and push-up goals in mind for the end of the year. And I figure being a bit lighter might help with that. Yeah. Yeah, well, for sure. Do you have a bike, a treadmill, stare, anything like that, access to? But at your heart? I saw a bike over here and a treadmill over here. Okay, so, you know, you're close enough to your goal, right? Of like, when I met the last like five to 10 pounds to drop, post-workout, 12 minutes of hit cardio afterwards. Okay, perfect. Yeah, that'll, now I would only do that when I start to see the progress stall from the calories, right? So I always want to manipulate calories first. So if I feel like, oh, I'm leaning out, and then what you'll see is when you're at that calorie intake, your progress will start to stall. And then I have two options. I can either create more movement in calorie burn, which would be the hit cardio, or I can reduce calories. When I get a client who's starting to get close to that 1500 calorie for a female range, that's about as low as I ever really want to push somebody. So in this case, I would probably go, okay, let's add, you know, a day or two of 12 minute of hit cardio post-workout and see what that does. Okay, yeah, that sounds good. That should help accelerate some. I like your goals, by the way. I like the way that you've positioned your goals, and I like the way you train. I think you're doing the right way for sure. Yeah, yeah, and you're right there. You're right there. Thanks. I've been listening to you guys for a few years now. So you guys have definitely helped me navigate the best way, the most healthy way to get to my goals. So thank you. That's awesome. And then you said you have an active job, but you don't do a lot of steps. Do you mind if I ask what kind of work you do? Sure. I'm a painter and decorator. I've got two jobs actually. So I decorate Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then I PT Monday and Tuesday. I'm sorry, Monday and Friday. Yeah, your activity's good. Your activity's fine. Totally. No, you're on the right track for sure. Yep. Okay, cool. Thank you. I got it. Thanks. You know what you're talking about, and you're thinking all these things, and they just go through your head, and I thought, I know I'm going to ask the mind pump, guys. Yeah, you're doing great. Thank you so much. Stay the course. Thank you. All right, Becky. All right, cheers, guys. Bye-bye. Yeah, just for people listening, when it comes to fat loss, so long as it's appropriate. Okay, so that's the context here. Trading strength training for cardio is not a more effective way to burn body fat. It's a less effective way to burn. In fact, I typically would take people and do the opposite when people would hire me as I'd look at their routine and say, oh, we're going to take some of that cardio and add more strength training to get better results. Yeah, you want to maintain whatever lean muscle mass you have. And you rarely hear us recommend cardio for fat loss, but she's three kilograms. She's close. She's so close. And she's trying to, and I could tell she's limited with time, right? She's to the point where she's thinking, should I trade my lifting for more walking? No, I wouldn't do that. But a 12-minute hit session, and this is actually how I would introduce it for competing, right? So it's like, what, three, four weeks and then you get some? Yeah, when I get down to the last three weeks before a show, and I'm down to the last five to 10 pounds I need to lean out and I have done no cardio up into this point, the first thing I do is I add 12 minutes post-workout. So post-workout, the end of every workout, I finish it with 12 minutes of hit cardio on elliptical or stair master, whatever, it doesn't matter. And then I would, normally the next week or two that would actually kick start, accelerate the fat loss a little bit more. And then only if that stalled before the show would I add any more of like steady state outside of that. But a lot of times that would be enough to get me ready for the show. Speaking of fat loss, we have a free fat loss guide. You can get it at mindpumpfree.com. You can also find us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. I'm on Instagram at Mind Pump DeStefano. And Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam.