 So good afternoon and apologies for the slight delay. We can't always rely on full lights, but we're here now and that's the main thing You're all very very welcome to the IIEA Firstly on some procedural issues. This is a recording event both the speech and the question and answer session So if you haven't done so already, please put your mobile phone on silent, but feel free to tweet at IIEA Today's event is part of our future of the EU 27 project Supported by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the future of the EU 2017 here at the Institute is delighted to welcome our speaker today Professor Danita Huber MEP Professor Hoobner will be speaking on facing the future the new EU strategic agenda and the European Parliament's priorities for the next five years Professor Hoobner MEP has been a member of the European Parliament since 2009 And she holds a number of influential roles in the European Parliament Including chair of the Committee on Constitutional Affairs and a member of the Parliament's Brexit steering group From 2004 to 2009 Professor Hoobner served as commissioner for regional policy making her Poland's first ever European commissioner and Previous to that Professor Hoobner served in several roles in the Polish government including as minister for European Affairs So Danita welcome Jen Dobre Roche Barzol, I'm not sure if that's totally correct in Polish, but welcome Kate me the fortune to Dublin Danita your political career has been at the heart of European politics And you're speaking at a time when Europe is frapped at a critical juncture We just experienced just after the European elections, but there's still many things in flux So your dress is important in terms of where Europe is heading and where it's heading in the future So I would like to invite you to speak on facing the future of the EU's new strategic agenda and the European Parliament's priorities Yeah, you're welcome to Thank you very much for the for the invitation Unfortunately, you have invited me in the moment when there's no answer to any question yet So it just I don't know anything actually if you could if I if comes I can say the same first of all I apologize for being late, but it was one hour delay in Frankfurt And then they kept us on the plane here for more than 20 minutes because there was no parking place for the for the plane No gate was free. Nothing. So it was just and then we had a marvelous wonderful Driver who just made it in 10 minutes. I think here. So first of all, I would like to maybe share with you some very personal takeout from the elections because I also had to do elections at home and we have in Poland Which is my home country a real election. So if you want to be a member of European Parliament, you you just have to fight We have districts. We have lists and you have to and we have preferential lists. So This is quite a quite a challenge and then I read a lot of comments on on the elections across Europe and I think that I would like to start with Sharing my 304 take takeaways from the elections, which are probably very personal but I Think I see them as as important for the future of of Europe. I think we all know that those elections were I Also think here slightly different if you compare them with the previous or even with the last ones, of course, there was a higher turnout in general, which is good because then the Legitimation of our of the members of European Parliament is just growth We are more important and also it showed that maybe people have more interest now in European Parliament if this is a new trend because it might be there was a one-off Event this higher participation, but I think what was for me at least the most important is that I Think this time around it was not not just 28 separate stories 28 member states the elections the discussions during the Elections as usual. There were local components very strong. I think across across Europe, but at the same time there was there were very clear expectations expressed by the citizens directed towards European Union, I think this time people very clearly saw gains from the From being part of Europe gains coming from the integration European integration and I think that I would draw the conclusion from this that European citizens Europeans now they just don't want Europe just to survive On the I would say on the old cramps of past glory, but they clearly I think from this election these elections we can see that people clearly want Europe to live and Deliver and and I think that the expect responses to their concerns from the European Union and I think that as a result people put on the European agenda across Europe Same or very similar issues, so it was not like 28 different stories as I said But it's just the same issues were put on our European table in in all member states my second takeaway would be that in spite of of the fact that We indeed have more People say you're skeptics. I think just we should say anti-European parties and movements and anti-European members of European Parliament they came in bigger Numbers the size of this group is bigger or will be bigger, but still I believe we have a There is a good chance to have a very constructive Very committed and engaged European Parliament with a solid stable pro-European majority but this The next five years will be a test for this group whether they whether we will Be able to stick together to build capacity to compromise and to have a common See Europe as a common really good and have the same a similar perspective for for Europe and that we will manage to avoid the sort of creeping disagreements disengagement or fragmentation of European Parliament, I think this will be very important that we pass this test But there is a chance that we can make this these five years to come really good years for Europe my third take away would be that These elections actually a gave clear for me evidence that a new type of Democratic practice is emerging in Europe. We have sort of we could see a sort of network or open source democracy based on solidarity of various groups This has become I think a canvas and a and the harbinger of of new European Democracy that from below can push the populist back and This this democracy this is about all the grassroot organizations. There were active women Movements climate activists. We had we have seen very active urban Activists during those elections. Also the people of culture the creative part of our society was also very Very active and first of all there was more young people and it's not only Greta with her climate Commitment, but it's also other young people that have come to To the meetings that came to the streets also and Showed some interest in the peace parts of what Europe can offer or can deliver So I think there is a chance now that European Union will be Delivering its policies now through this network democracy now in a different way Which is also updating What we understand by subsidiarity, I think that there is a chance that subsidiarity is going to be more about sharing Then saying to Europe just hands off from our local Reality, so I guess that we we have seen in that during those elections some sort of reinterpretation of democracy practices and With with this wider participation of of local Level and I think this can change also the way we We do politics or we make political decisions or decisions in general in in Europe And I'm underlining this because I think that I don't know the oldest of you might remember We used to talk about European demos or lack of it for years then we stop talking about it But I think now it's it looks like European demos is coming into being but not through What we were always discussing this in post top-down European identity But through the gathering of people of Europeans around very concrete expectations common expectations Policies and achievements. So that that's I that's not the only optimistic part of my Introductory remarks, but but I think that there is a chance that if we continue to be smart enough as politicians or as Europeans, there is a chance that these elections can Also bring sort of new beginning to to the way Europe Will will function in the years to come now my second issue that I would like to share with you is is To comment maybe about the where we are with the preparation of the next agenda or For the the agenda for the next five years a lot has been done I think before the elections and also already now during these months after the elections and Most of European institutions It's not only the Commission the Council the Parliament, but also the Committee of the Regions the Economic and Social Committee they have been Involved as well, and I think as usual the the whole sync of preparing the agenda the political agenda for the years to come has started with the with the Commission who that prepared this contribution communication before the European Council meeting in in Sibiu Where as usual the Commission is doing just we and there was a clear Stock taken of where the EU stands today's looking on the on the last on the recent Legislature and seeing what Remains as unfinished business, but also looking toward the future with very clear recommendations for the Strategic agenda of the Council which usually once every five years in June makes this decision on the strategic agenda This year for the first time will be different because we have now a new sort of approach to to this multi-annual programming in the European Union, but the Commission has put on the on the table five major recommendations of building Europe that would be there will be that should be protective competitive then fair Sustainable and globally influential that sounds very generally, but then a lot of details have come and I think This language will also taken largely from what President Macron was saying over the last months I think and but but this is I think a very convincing A Coverage of of the major challenges through pointing to those issues these five issues that I Mentioned additionally also the Commission and I think rightly so put a lot of emphasis on the need to To care about the transparency of the way we function in the European Union specifically in the institutions and also continued emphasis on the effective communication so this Dialogue with with people I think these are lessons conclusions I think drunk drunk drunk from the experience of the last two years basically of communicating with with people engaging them in a more permanent Dialogue I don't know if you follow but we had over the last two years Both at the level of member states and different institutions and national parliament but also governments have been organizing real debates public debates on Europe there was Commission and president Lee I think was present in All member states for for tens of if not hundreds of of meetings with commissioners So we had also This and and even the council have has been involved in in this dialogue with with people on all the most important Issues and then I think the the proposal coming from the Commission for the for this agenda Then picked up largely by the by the council was also very detailed and I I think we we probably could see also in media, but Depending on the member states media have been more or less interested in passing to the people also the those boring conclusions of the of the meetings, but I think we we responded in this Discussion of the future multi-annual program As presented by by all institutions I think we already reacted to what people were also raising during the Elections during the electoral campaign. So we have this focus on security Broadly understood security. We have also been the focus on the economy and there is this also the emphasis on the newest Technologies including the artificial intelligence, then we have also the continuation of the Investment in in single Market we have also for the first time I think with such a strength the The social pillar social pill the European Europe social Europe or European pillar of social rights, we never talked actually before About the issues like access to health or access to affordable housing Access to health care access to affordable housing and the working conditions So I think for the first time this follow-up to the get a book Decisions a year and a half ago on the social pillar. This is also being now translated maybe with some delay into concrete elements of the next multi-annual Programming and also I think the everything that is related to What we again used to call sustainable? development, which is now very clearly climate and environmental degradation But not as a climate change, but for the first time I think as a climate crisis or Catastrophe or something which is around the corner and we are given by some studies 11 years to to respond And I think that this we have never had I think such an emphasis also on these issues and then the Broadly seen broadly understood also the global role of European Union not only the fight for the To protect multilateralism and rule base global order, but and the international trade But also for the first time we are really paying attention to the international role of of the euro And I think the years to come will will also bring further actions on in increasing enhancing the international role of the European Currency and also for the first time I think in this global context Africa has emerged This alliance between Europe and Africa has emerged as a very important Task and the good thing is that European Council actually has taken Working parallelly, but through the consultation also picked up practically all the all this the same issue that the Commission has in more detail put into the this discussion about the The future so we have exactly the same priorities The protection of citizens of freedoms the developing our economic basis and then this greener further more inclusive also future and The protection promote promotion of Europe's interest and values in the global World if I were to pick up Two issues which I don't know what why too, but I think two are absolutely I think dominating the the discussions I would say That it was this sustainability of Europe in terms of a climate environment, but also the social sustainability So this is something which I think we cannot avoid taking it very seriously in the years to come and the second issue which is sometimes especially in the Depending on to whom you talk in the council, but sometimes is sort of ignored or Seen as not that important, but I think it came during the discussions very very clearly Which is really the protection of European values and especially the rule of law I think there is no way away of this. I think this has come as extremely important Issue so I guess that We have managed to have the council and the Commission very quickly sort of converging with their the tasks for the For the future also for the Euro summit in the meantime took also place in June. So we also have Seen this commitment to deepen EMU to be more serious about the The finalization of the banking union or to be more serious about also the budgetary instrument for the Eurozone And also the revising the SM treaties I think issues which have been popping up from time to time since What already four years ago? I think when you don't care when we had this four presidents White paper and the four president reports and and these issues have not disappeared. So in spite of lack of a clear success in reforming the Eurozone, I think all the issues remain on the on the agenda. So again I Have this optimistic hope that in spite of the big difference between the north and south when they look at the Eurozone that we also have a Progress on this in the years to come and then comes the parliament Where we it was more difficult for us to get to focus sort of now over the short term on the I Parliament was I think by the fact that we have been In the electoral election campaign since practically mid April we we were not working Parallely or together with the two other institutions as the treaty says but we got into the this reflection on on the Agenda for the years to come with some delay, but with a lot of I would say energy Which was additionally enhanced by the fact That we have been also trying to link this multi-annual programming to the procedure of the lead candidates of the spits and Candidate and and that's what the parliament focused over the last months on so first of all the leaders of the four main groups of the parliament which is if I can use the current names with the CPP socialist We still say alde but we normally should already say the renew Europe and also the green the greens they first of all they agreed on a political process on on how to Define a common ambition for the next legislative Period in a way, but we did it in such a way as if that was actually the The basis on which We expect the upcoming president of the European Commission would commit himself or herself To to work Having at the same time This broad majority of the European Parliament. So we we saw this program as something that would give the credibility also to the European Parliament Candidate for the For the next commission President this has never been this way. I think so so far even it's the second time that we try to convince the council to To be with us on the for this procedure of speech and Candidaten and We established the working groups exactly taking on board Practically the same maybe slightly different wording, but the same four or five major areas for the Work in the in the future and we started as European Parliament normally first to negotiate among ourselves to to negotiate common approach to those Issues and doing it in the same time and we are trying to Constitute ourselves because Parliament is now in the process also of constituting itself and itself and it usually starts as you as you can imagine with Identifying the major political groups in the Parliament. So where we are with this process of constituting the European and Parliament we need we we have What we see today we have those Seven actually political groups that have been already formed and we still have two major in terms of size Parties that I call European, but they can be also criticized for this which is the the British Brexit Party, which is I think 29 They did not yet form a political Group even though in terms of the size they could be alone, but they have to be To have members from seven member states to establish a group and also we have the Italian Cinque Stelle also With 14 MEPs not yet belong at least yesterday not yet belonging to to any political Group and so we don't know yet whether they how they will Finally organize themselves, but we already have the European People's Party, which is the biggest with 182 MEPs we have Socialists and Democrats the two political groups that have suffered most I would say in the Election in terms of the reduction of the size. So the Socialists and Democrats was 153 The EPP has chosen the German colleague Manfred Weber who is also our I'm EPP Who is also our candidate for the president of the Commission the socialist gave up German colleague and Concentrated on supporting the Spanish colleague from Soe Then we have the former alde which is now the renew Europe, which has grown compared to to alde size 208 MEPs and they have elected former commissioner from Romania a francophone The Dutch and Cholos and also his former prime minister of of Romania as a new leader And then we have greens. They stick to the tradition They have grown and almost I would say up to to 75 MEPs mostly thanks to the German Party They they continue to have two colleagues Skakeller and Philip Lambert's and then we have the What used to be an F the Madame Le Pen group, which is now called identity and and democracy That's it's an interesting group because they have also The the biggest group of Mr. Salvini the League of the Norse League and Madame Le Pen's party, but also they have like one check what then is maybe two but this type of several parties from Finland from Czech Republic from Estonia, I think and from Denmark from the Netherlands there's also a FD the alternative few Deutschland and And some also a small party from From Netherlands, which I mentioned I think already so so this is a Group which is a 73 MEPs and is is going to to play a role and then we have the traditional ECR that But with very few Tories the Tories were normally dominating this this group But as they lost terribly actually in UK Now this group is dominated by the Polish ruling party law and Injustice which they have 26 now, and if the Brits go they will have 27 and MEPs and then we have also the the guru at the European United left And they they lost they are one of those that Together with the EPP and socialists. They have also lost in the in terms of the of the size so political groups are there and Of those groups, of course, there are the four mainstream groups, I mean the EPP socialists renew Europe and the Greens that are negotiating a coalition agreement So we we don't talk with everybody. We just try to build this pro-european center that would Try to give this stability pro-european majority to European Parliament and The discussions are I would like to say that it's all very noble and so the big things and the Europe and But it's also about political deals. It's it's it's all now about how to Make common decisions in a way that would allow us to keep the Coalitions and be together decisions related to all the leadership told the leader the positions of leaders of the European institutions and it's not always sort of all easy and and Easy to achieve and as you probably know, we are nowhere yet And that's what I was saying that we we don't we don't know the European Council was not really Successful for the time being given the idea that mr. Tusk had if there's no agreement if we cannot do it through Consensus as we normally do we just go immediately to vote and then we will have quick solutions, but then of course Nobody would vote for because probably we would create even bigger divisions deeper divisions. So we are we are nowhere there we also hope that the first Decision that will be made will be on the president for the Commission because then it would allow us to look at the rest from the point of view of the traditional European Criteria and no south east west women non women We just small big and the old the new and all those things will have to be taken also into account but whether the European Council will manage to come to a common decision and at the same time not Sort of ignore the expectations of European Parliament when it comes to speech and candidate and procedure By the end of this month, which is probably Sunday We will see because on Tuesday we will start voting and really the constituting of the European Parliament which is electing the leader 14 vice presidents then also Coordinators chairs of the committees then of the delegations and then all those things which are Very complex, but you have to start with something which we normally see As the most important which is the post of the Commission President for which we will also need majority in the European Parliament and all that comes also in this context of trying to find a compromise on the agenda that I mentioned at the Beginning and because we have also different views for example for the speed of climate Adjustments of our policies we are not speaking one voice in spite of The urgency of the situation and there are many other issues where we are also Having different views so so there is this question of constituting ourselves and linking it also with the agenda The setting and I mentioned that for the first time the agenda setting for the five years is a is a novelty And it's because normally there is this article 17 I think in the treaty that is saying that the Commission initiates the annual and multi annual Programming but with a view to achieve an inter institutional agreement and then we in 2016 We negotiated with the council and with the Commission the better lawmaking inter institutional agreement where we specifically agree that the Multi-annual programming is not anymore the Council strategic agenda which is inspired by the Commission proposal, but it's a joint in inter institutional Multi-annual Programming and where also the Parliament has to Contribute to it and this after summer will take place. That's why those things are more complex and more interlinked Today and I think that the European Parliament as I think and basically there's not really much discrepancies in terms of Of the future agenda, but I think the Parliament is more committed, I guess then because of its nature as a Parliament and is elected and sort of massively elected big group of European Members of European institutions. I think we are we feel particularly strongly committed to this need of Restoring the lost confidence and trust of citizens and also to enhance In real terms the transparency of decision Making and be more committed. We are more committed also to the accountability of all the institutions agencies and we have had a whole the whole series of Reports resolutions over the last two years and also the last Months dedicated to those sort of horizontal characteristics of the way we are making the decisions in European Institutions and and that's why I think the Parliament will be Probably also a more difficult partner in agreeing on this multi-annual programming after summer then we were so far and I also think that What we share I guess among the institutions in the context of the agenda in the context of our actions in the years to come is definitely this Commitment to stay in dialogue with citizens and to continue the The consultations the real consultation with a different stakeholders on on all the issues on all decision-making we had a I am still for one more day chair of the Constitutional Affairs Committee and before the Going to the elections. We had at the beginning of April we had a joint discussion in European Parliament with the Chairs of the with the people from committee of the regions and people from economic and social a committee with European Commission with the Presidency of how to create a permanent mechanism for For this debate with people for the dialogue with people on on the European programming on European decision Making after those two years of having those hundreds of Truly hundreds of debates how to make it a permanent mechanism and I hope that we will this will be one of the decisions still to make in the months To come and I hope that we will be able to also keep this network democracy Life and I also think just do to come to to the conclusion of Of my Remarks you remember maybe I mentioned at the beginning that we had this Bigger turnout in the elections and we think that this is also showing that the importance of European elections is beginning to be Appreciated but also I think we I Was also I think clear that I think that populace did not see such big gains as we all expected or fear I would even Say so they will not have Majority blocking minority or They will not have the decisive role in shaping the The agenda the decision making But they will be there and they will be most likely Having the possibility of delaying things delaying decisions Decision making so the parliament will have to look for new working methods to make the functioning smooths and efficient and also be politically committed to compromises and to within the This pro-European Majority and I would just like to mention one one one issue to in in this context We normally use the don't proceed this horrible blind don't system to allocate the Championship of the committees among political groups and we have done it and We through this don't blind procedure. We have for example committees like Jury committee, which is this legal affairs a committee that is allocated to Madame Le Pen group So for example, then it will be the question will be whether we can We can stick to to this traditional use of Of don't to allocate the post in the parliament or we have to go for something which I would call more Confrontational confrontational settlement and and just Vote or I would vote which normally we don't do Because once there is this don't allocation then by acclamation the chairs of the committees are and The point is so we will face this challenge should the agricultural committee and the jury committee go to a clearly anti-European group or or So it's just also this type of of challenges we are also Facing and We believe that democracy is very important diversity shows also that democracy democracy is Is working but can we also take this risk? To see that the committees that are in a way also paving the way for decisions Made by European Institutions to respond to expectations of European citizens and What should be what kind of working methods we should have to see that Europe is moving forward and This is one of those challenges should be also financed from European budget All those who come to European Parliament to dismantle European Parliament or to undermine the strengths of European Union so this efficiency of work and the benefits of of Citizens a responsibility for the future of Europe all those things will have to be taken into account where we will be Also just addressing step-by-step those difficult moments also in the months To come there will be also the question of the British Parliamentarians who as you know are in the European Parliament with very different proportions with many more and Liberals with social socialists with limited story Tories number of the of the Tories and with huge increase of the Mr. Farage Group and we don't know When and whether the British colleagues will will leave and now they're also part of of the whole process of Of the participation in the distribution of post So I'm not just trying I'm trying to avoid the evaluation of this But just I'm showing you also the process nevertheless the legislative process as it is in the treaty is not changed So the Parliament will Will continue with its role as it is in the current treaties There is even less appetite now. I think for the treaty Change Not because of the Irish this time I think around but we are also thinking that Today the treaty change can could finally could lead also to The reduction of Europe if I can say just in in this In this way, so we are I think there is there will be we will continue with this idea of Going to introducing the change especially to the governance of the eurozone without changing the treaties that's I think we will stay with us for quite Quite quite a while especially when it comes to the eurozone I think most of the reforms if not all of them that are on the table for the time being they can be introduced without changing the The treaty and I think that the only thing that I probably should say at the end is that The the most difficult thing for us will be exactly this whether we will pass the exam as the pro-european Majority in terms of really being united. It's going to be extremely difficult But I think the only way to To go and I also think that European integration is a sort of I don't know if it's correct in English human process in the sense it's men and women made Process and it depends Seriously on on those who make The effort to conceive and implement the change But I also think that we are after the last years and all the problems with the rule of law across especially part of Europe We see that Democracy is based on a sense of belonging to to one community of values And I think this will be I think a very shared values This would be a very important thing to remember because we know that if they value if you lose values then also we are also Lost so I I think I took you through main Dilemmas that we have right now in the European Parliament I didn't mention practically the word Brexit But but it is with us and and the Brits will be with us around the table We will be making all those difficult Decisions, thank you Thank you so much Professor Hoopner I think you touched on a wide-ranging Issues and challenges within the European Union not just looking at the outcome of the European elections But the different processes of coalition building that will go on of course in the Parliament But also that fact on Europeans and that we should take more responsibility and that maybe Europe Is not just about to survive, but how we deliver and how politicians and policy makers Should deliver on promises and to be cognizant of that And then maybe there's a different kind of change going on as well a new kind of democracy happening in terms of democracy from below That could possibly push back populism and then focus on our European values I know I have a lot of questions, but I would like to open it up to the floor For maybe if we could take we have about 10 minutes or so for for questions So I'll take maybe three at a time Would you have to answer three and then we'll see if we've time for more there is a microphone there going Yes, and just please remember to speak directly into the microphone before you speak Just so that we can pick it up and also just state your name and affiliation as well. Thank you Just hear the top John Bluton I'm a member of the Institute I just like to ask about the spits in Canada's There seems to be a growing consensus that Manfred Weber will not become president of the Commission This seems to involve a Breakdown in the coalition before the coalition has formed in the sense that The social Democrats and the Greens also put forward candidates in competition, but Manfred Weber He got more seats and now that having happened It looks as if they looked against him when the implication previously that would vote for him now I think the spits in Canada system is flawed in many ways But for good or ill it was the system that was chosen and presented to the people Before the election as the way the president of the Commission was going to be chosen And if after the election the European institutions decide they're going to dump all of that forget what we said before the election We're going to do something different after the election that will not I think contribute to trust in the European institutions How is that matter going to be resolved? Thank you Donald Barack on member of the Institute following on that question The you mentioned that the dawn system may not be used for appointing chairman chairs of committees because you don't like the results that I Mean what's the point in voting for the European Parliament if you know you then Change the results as John Bruton said that's another lack of trust and the other thing I'd just like to add that the continuation of intergovernmentalism and the community method resolving matters and the On the eurozone It's all done in secrecy and as you know better than I do that the European ombudsman Had a very critical report on the transparency of EU council Members and I'm not aware that There's been any response to that but maybe I don't follow it closely enough One last point then to go back to the European demos the previous constitutional affairs committee held hearings on basically a form of direct democracy in September 2012 and there was Obviously that's part of the ECI and it was basically it was hearings It was there was no outcome as such But it does show a different way of I use the word bringing in new mechanisms That may restore trust in how we govern ourselves at European level Thank you Updating on situation in the parliament at the moment I I also want to address the issue of the spits and candid out from a slightly different angle And I don't entirely agree with Mr. Bruton's views on this on this matter and I'm as a former commissioner official dealing with inter-institutional relations I was always very supportive of the parliament's efforts and successful at that to involve itself more and more in the decision-making Process at the EU level however, I have problems with the spits and candid out process and The problem I think for the parliament is that it isn't enshrined in the treaties and You know therefore if you want to make it work You're going to have to be very careful in your you have to be tactically good and create a precedent in terms of procedure and an acceptance in general terms of the whole way thing business is done as indeed is Many other procedures in the are many other procedures in the EU And I think last time round the parliament played a blind or rather the EPP group played a blinder by producing a candidate mr. Junker that the EPP members of the European Council couldn't refuse. They just you know He was it obviously ticked all the boxes, but this time round I'm very curious to know as to what was the actual argument really apart from Just personal preferences that mr. Vaber was chosen in the European elections in Ireland And the name was never mentioned you can't possibly say that it was a democratic that whether or not EPP members from Ireland were voted it had nothing to do with mr. Vaber as a candidate And I really think that this is almost anti-democratic in the sense of insisting on a person who didn't even bother coming to Ireland to do a campaign on his In his favor it really requires better handling in order for the such a procedure to succeed And I can quite understand why it hasn't worked this time round And why it did work last time round and it is a pity from the time of the so point of view that they weren't a little bit And I'm back. We did see that mr. Timmermans did very well in his own country as well as elsewhere I mean he was part of The right kind of approach, but unfortunately that was not the EPP's approach Thank you Yes Of course, it's it's very difficult to I I Guess to to respond to your concerns because I also disagree with some of them But I also think that it's impossible to explain to the public That we ignore now speech and candidate and after the whole Process of elections. I know maybe Vaber didn't come here But I would be surprised actually because then I'm a few who is was responsible for EPP Electoral campaign that he didn't bring Mantra better here. I just I don't know. Maybe it was not Well publicized here, but I think he was Traveling a lot and he was everywhere and in many member states for many times So I'm not sure that if we made an effort ourselves Those who belong to the party to the political group at national level to promote also the candidate Then probably he would be known and seen and Visible not all this pizza and we're participating in the elections by the Vestager did not she decided not to run in the Elections nevertheless. She she was one of the liberals and finally she is the liberal candidate Renew Europe candidate for as the Spitzon But in principle, I think the idea of of Spitzon was the candidate and was to To have for the voters Somebody who would be associated with their values and with the program that we Individuals from participating in the elections that we would like to convince the public to vote for us because our Candidate will then be the president of the European Commission and would not ignore What is important for the people what people? present during the Meetings during the electoral Campaign to the candidates. So in fact to think that there is this speed and candidate who is Representing a program that on which we win the elections belonging to the same political Group and then we are the winner in the European Parliament the biggest group and we won on the basis of the program that also this Guy or is also representing then I think it shouldn't be ignored because that's Exactly the leading to the lack of trust So I think once we embark on this process of speed and candidate and then I think it should be run to the very end I disagree that it's because in the council it's often used it doesn't come from the treaty But the treaty is not specific on how you take into account the results of the elections you can take it into account also by respecting the fact that the candidate presented by by Political group that is also having It's representatives in the in the European Council. So I think we can build a legally safe I think environment political environment for the process So I don't buy the argument that it doesn't come from the treaty and the treaty gives total freedom to The European Council to do what the council wants because that's not really a true However, the the the candidate of EPP it's true that Has not been accepted by Some colleagues were in the European Council very strong from the very beginning. It was publicly. It was in newspapers especially from the France Portugal Spain that they will never accept a candidate which EPP has presented so There is a political discussion candidates are not accepted and and This comes from the fact that the European Council is accustomed to choose somebody who is with them around the table because they already had Relationship had exchanges they develop sort of trust and they want to Focus on this on this candidate. So there are many arguments and it's difficult to In political discussion to ignore somebody's opinions, that's why we are today where we are when there is no no support no endorsement for the EPP candidate in the European Council, I don't know whether this can change or or not there are also the ideas that We Can think of the Spitz and candidateness If they are also selected by the government as candidate for commissioners that they could join the Commission For example as vice president of the Commission and the the council could come up with somebody a Proposal that the Parliament would vote positively that would be from outside this group of Spitz and so they are I Think that there is an effort political effort to find a solution It's true that there is this novelty with some of the candidates has been that the Traditionally John will support me you have even longer memory than I do that we accept for the law We never had a president of the Commission that would not be the former prime minister. I think no that's a But the law Jacques Delors had sort of different qualities that probably Let at that time to making him the President of the Commission, so so there is also this this factor which informally some of the members of European Council mentioned that I Don't know whether this will be finally also taken into into account, but that's where we are We just have to find it an agreement between the two institutions And somebody I think it was John or a Mention that it's not only the council versus the European Council versus Parliament, but it's also within the Parliament finding the The agreement and from the very beginning we didn't have this this agreement There is a sort of Fatigue I would say with this domination of two major political groups for decades in the European Union, whether this is true or not I'm not sure that those groups are sort of seen as Really not taking sufficiently into account the democracy meaning that They are they have just been the the Grand Coalition was just part of the European Parliament But the Grand Coalition didn't work already doesn't work already now in this over the last five years We we didn't have the traditional Grand Coalition between EPP and Socialists in the sense that it's a coalition for the whole period and for the entire Approach to our tasks. We just had to build majorities already now for practically every project every piece of legislation every initiative So it didn't work already. So there was already much more in terms of democracy. I think But I'm sorry, but it's just so complex why Grand Coalition is not democracy It's also democracy, but as we know democracy is where the interest of minorities also taken into account and I guess this probably is also Related to how complex the functioning of the European Parliament is at the national level You just have coalition in opposition and it's very clear in the European Parliament You have to build a compromise in majority for it's every piece of whatever you want to vote or accept And we always start from scratch and we build this Compromise And even if you had a Grand Coalition, you also had to build a compromise within the Grand Coalition As I said for the last time we built for everything The compromise so it's very very different And I think some of the national leaders who have not been through the European Parliament in their life And I think they don't understand also this Difference in functioning of the And the importance of majority building and the European Parliament. That's why They think that it's such a procedure that if there is a majority in the council that automatically you have also the same majority in the Which is not not the case. So I am not I am Thinking that if we manage to get the transnational lists also in the votes Over the last five years. I think we voted. I'm sorry. I'm a loser of this because I was in the author of the reports also That included the transnationalists if we had managed to to convince especially my political group to Accept the transnationalists then we will have also I think a stronger support in the European Council for the Spitz and is sharing the transnationalists and that would be easier, but as we Outvoted transnationalists and they have they are now sort of left in somewhere in the political space to address later We I think it's also linked. So I'm sorry. I cannot just give you the There's no one answer to what will happen as you probably know. There's a lot of Candidates, but the challenge of getting the majority in the European Parliament exists and we will need this majority And if you can you reach a majority that would vote positively the president of the Commission without EPP? You can't probably get everybody on board if you if you manage, but there will be politically. I think a big mistake That's why we will Probably spend more time on on electing the president of the Commission. I don't ignore don't I would never Say that I was just saying that we use don't and we use also now don't and I'm just thinking with an curiosity also whether in the committees where we will have the colleagues coming from But because don't does not forbid to vote in the committee when you have the proposal for a chair of the committee That is agreed among political groups will follow the the don't Somebody can still say I want to vote and you don't do it through acclamation But you vote and then I can imagine that there will be colleagues who seeing as a proposal Coming from don't a proposal a candidate for a chair that comes from a group or is himself and ask questions because there will be the exchange of views who will say His views on Europe that would be dramatically different from the views of the majority that that he can or she can be outvoted And this is just legally correct. And but I'm not saying that if don't replaces Democracy I'm saying don't reflect mess is a method of democracy that we are using but it can be that it's not accepted by the by the colleagues and things like that already happen in the past so Because it just happened because probably that jury committee. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry now you said also the Transparency this way. I think we we have committed a lot of time to the transparency over the last five years. We had also Madame ombudsman whom you know here and very well. She was also very for the first time I think they committed to and report on the council on the Results the council has I see the April they did not respond simply. That's why we don't know the response I haven't seen the response. I think the issues will continue on ECI. We did reform It's not as I was myself negotiating trying to convince the council to move Further Towards our ideas and the Commission on Modernizing the ECI we managed to get some changes I hope ECI will be European citizens initiative will be more and sort of more often used in an effective Way, but it's not yet what we would like to see But I hope there is a chance that we can use it more efficiently to get trust of people and get Themselves more more involved. We did a lot. We had many Debates and hearings about the democracy about referenda about many aspects of Of the functioning of the European Union and also the scope for the change scope for the reforms and Treaties So I I think we will continue the reforms the reforms of the European Union, but I don't believe I'm I am very much in favor of changing this treaty change of just not having it as a taboo anymore And because we know that even the Irish can be convinced to accept the treaty change, but I It's not cynically what I'm going to say is cynical But I don't think we we can expect because there will be the I'm bluntly saying here There will be this fear that there is a treaty change I know what kind of proposal for treaty change might come from some governments in the that would be just reducing the Integration and going towards intergovernmentalism much more than it is so far and against solidarity in the context of migration and against the moving forward towards climate against the The qualified majority in new areas that the Commission has proposed with the parliament is supporting That's why for different reasons. We are not afraid of the the Irish voting against We are now afraid of having as a result of the Discussion on the on of the reopening of the treaty we can have results It would be worse than then we would like to see that's why I think it would be a game-blocked, but maybe Wrong so I am on speech and I don't have much to say I must say I More I I'm not obsessed with spits and I think but but the whatever you call it But the idea of having this debate and having the program and having them as part of the this is something Which we should protect I think because that's exactly what would make the European Commission also sort of more Seen as more democratic and elected institution than as a bureaucrat, but we are not yet there from Thank you, Janita Touching so many issues there and a very complicated issue, but unfortunately we don't we've run out of time and we don't have Time for any more questions, even though I know you've done on a lot of Concerns there and first we'll know more and that's not for me. It's not because of me You don't have time. No, it's just because of you here The yeah, for your schedule and to get your flight as well No, no, this is not it. I'm just saying that don't use me as no, no, no I'm sure everybody would like to ask you another question, but unfortunately that's for a schedule We don't have time and it would be great if we did so thank you so much for coming Thank you to new to professor to new to Hooper MEP and thank my colleague I'm Claire Gray for arranging this event as well. Thank you