 Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon, wherever you're joining us from. Hi. My name is Avijit Baduri I work as a executive coach and I also work with organizations and individuals on their personal branding and the talent branding processes But well today, I'm going to talk to you about something which is very dear to my heart Which has been the subject of season three of Dreamers in Unicorn show, which as you know We've been you know doing a show almost every week with the exception of those little weeks in between when I take a break but Which is also very important as we will discuss today But today, you know, I want to bring to you the person who got me thinking about wellness and To really look at it beyond, you know, mental wellness, which is what most people really do So really what does it mean in terms of physical well-being? Mental well-being spiritual well-being and of course your emotional well-being which is about the relationships that you have This is a live show. What it means is there's a great opportunity for me to interact with you For all the listeners who are there do add your questions and from time to time I'll bring up your comments and questions Do tell us where you are joining us from and what are some of the questions you have based on either what we are talking about Or questions that you may generally have So without further ado We are going to bring in Dr. Ashu Hi there, Dr. Naik Hey, good. Good. Good. So I kind of you know, whenever I schedule a doctor on the show I'm always apprehensive whether the doctor is going to make it in time or not. So Delighted that you are here with us. I want to you know Start by really asking you about your journey. Did you always want to be a doctor or you know? This is one of those safe choices doctor engineer chartered a content lawyer. It's one of the safe options But you are also much more than that. So I want to really know about That little incident that triggered this whole movement talk to me about that Yeah, that's an interesting backstory. Now, you know, I my entire life I have grown up in small towns small towns across India like for the bar the arward car bar and places like that and in those places from an early age my Sort of exposure to the outside world was through books and For some reason when I was very young maybe in my ninth or tenth year Nine or ten years of age I read some books about science and research and scientists So from from the very beginning as far as back as I can remember. I've always thought that I'll be a scientist But you know, there's no traditional path to being a scientist, right? So I finished my High school wrote both the exams for engineering and medicine and got through both of them and you know There was a family pressure that you should get into medicine because we had a bunch of engineers. There was no doctor in the family and I think while I didn't like the decision at that point, but in hindsight, I think it was a Great opportunity for me to shape my career and for two reasons one is I ended up at a government medical college hospital Which had, you know, some of the best minds as teachers and the second is medical Education much like legal education and some of the other professional Education is one of the few where you get to interact with a whole range of people at once Barring first year second year onwards. You're interacting with the third year people. They're interacting with your professors You're interacting with patients. They're interacting with public and that's very rare in a professional education setting At 19 years age to you know, get to see all this So what it helped me to do is expand my horizon interact with different people and Also, luckily the college was not very particular about education or studies They knew that they will get some some students who will do well and give them the glory of medical education and they were very encouraging in terms of arts and literature and all that So that's how my journey was and in the final year of medical school I spent a lot of time reading about The back history of some of these researchers, doctors, scientists And I really got interested and revived my interest and I said I have to go back to science as a faculty and Went to US did my masters and wrote for a PhD and Finally ended up with my first job as a scientist working on the human genome project So that's a long answer to your question of how I With this story Yes, I think that was another I would say a seminal moment in my life because very rarely in history You will get an opportunity to work on these Amazing projects like the human genome project first of its kind and that too in an environment Where there was a competition between the public sector and the private sector I joined I joined a startup which was challenging how the human genome project, which is traditionally a Public enterprise right which is an academic exercise and then here was a startup We said we are going to put all the effort and energy and do this much faster cheaper and Better than the government one. So I got in and again It was a crazy experience to work with you know, not only scientists, but we had physicists We had computer scientists. We had lawyers Full floor of lawyers because human genome is a very touchy topic from an intellectual property point of view but luckily all of this paid off and in 2001 we completed the human genome project published Then we I was involved in the rat and mouse genome. So very interesting experiences there as a first job I would say which was very enriching What did it do to you in terms of the way that you view the future today? You know, how did that experience of working on the human genome project? Yeah So the human genome project was You know important for me for two reasons one is that it was a sort of landmark event for all of us But secondly it shaped two things in my mind and this is I tell everybody a Celera, which was the company which did the human genome project the internal saying was if you give an impossible deadline and Limited resources people do amazing things So that was a that was a sort of a defining moment for me that if there's a hard challenge Don't give enough resources and put a very artificially like a tough deadline And then people will find a way to solve it. So that that was an internal learning the second learning for me was There is no public and private problems, right? Even though there is a problem in the public sector private sector can address it. So when I came back to India in 2002 And we started working on building the rural health network, which is traditionally a government Responsibility we use a lot of learnings from this experience from Celera and said it doesn't matter It's a problem either the government will solve the government can't solve Private sector can also solve. So we built the network of hospitals to address Rural health care under the brand of So How long were you working on what Celia before the first hospital came up? Talk to me about that moment Yeah, I think we you know two things we started with we we said there is a gap in the rural health care sector And we want to do something about it. We didn't really know what we will do And we said we have to start somewhere. So let's start with the clinic in one of the cities and For that, you know, we try to raise money. It was very difficult to raise money in those days for rural health care But one thing that worked for us is many NRIs were our first backers our first angel investors and for them more than the Financial sort of opportunity they were seeing this as a personal thing, right? Their families were back home the parents were probably Aging and in small towns as well. There is a need and they were our first backers. So since a Group of angel investors came together and invested their first Round of money. We were able to set up something in about 15 months or so And when we were setting up our first center, we also got some interest from Venture capitalists who said we'd like to look at this space and then we quickly built Two more facilities within a couple of years. So in terms of getting things started, it was not very Complex, I think once we started to scale up is when we had a lot of challenges So did you see yourself more like Doctor or did you see yourself like a entrepreneur or how do you how do you describe your phase of building what's earlier chain? So both of us founders me and my partner We were very clear that we will not be involved in the clinical side of the work and we will get the right good doctors come on board and we will really play the role of catalysts in this whole journey and Our gen our role was more of entrepreneurs like you say, but really also figuring out What are the key levers that we need to move for this to work, right? One is getting doctors to come back to these small towns. Second is building the infrastructure and nursing you know clinical Equipments and all that but lastly, how do you make it affordable? That's where we spent a lot of time because it's and it's easy to put up a large hospital But how do we make it affordable to 60 70% of the local population? That took a lot of effort Generally the belief is that if you you know make it affordable quality takes a beating. How did you manage that challenge? Yeah, so that's absolutely right I think the reason some of the hospitals are at a higher end of the Financial spectrum is because they invest a lot in the higher Latest equipment, but if you think about it 80% of people go to hospital not for complicated Neurosurgery or cardiac surgery kind of things, right? What they need is a good quality maternity care Good quality pediatrics good quality internal medicine and things like odd small surgeries And what we did was we focused on these four specialties and said we will focus on High utilization of these services Meaning that we'll have a lot of people coming in for this services and then you know drive the quality in such a way The second part is about 60% of quality of care In a hospital is linked to how well your staff is trained Not the quality of your doctors not the quality of your equipments But how well your nursing staff and other staff is so building find first of all finding people with high levels of empathy And then training them and giving them the power to go out and serve the customers and the families of patients was something that we invested a lot in and From Vatsalya chain and you know, you got recognized as a Shoka fellow and all of that I mean talk to me about that recognition and what did that do for you? Yeah, I you know, we have been blessed because of the model that Vatsalya set up A lot of organizations recognized it both as a pioneering rural health initiative but also as a social enterprise You know that that world was new for us but people recognized it as a social enterprise Using private sector resources to solve a social problem And with that came, you know, the recognition of Ashoka Fellowship, Ted Fellowship and World Economic Forum I think what it did was obviously validated that, you know, what we are doing is important and impactful But also helped us become more ambitious in our approach and said, you know, we can now go out and do more And the second one was at some point we also realized that this is a universal issue It's not a small town India issue. It's a universal issue of access And then we started thinking about how can this model be replicated with in other geographies? How can we share what we have learned with others? So that's how the journey sort of transition Thanks Ashwin. I'm talking to Dr. Ashwin Naik who as you just heard is a Ashoka Fellow He's a Ted Fellow recognized by World Economic Forum For the pioneering work that he has done in rural health care chains at the hospitals that he set up But today, you know, what I'm going to talk to you is about wellness And this is really the field that Dr. Ashwin Naik is now working on And so I wanted to really understand what is the current mission that excites you You know, talk to me about one of wellness and how did that come about? Yeah, so like I said, we grew up, I grew up in small town India and mental health And wellness is a very personal issue for me because my mother was under diagnosed for about 10 years And traditionally what happens is when women of certain age have some issues, it's not considered a mental health issue Either you attach it to menopause, hormonal changes and so on and so forth So she was under diagnosed for about 10 years But once we found the right doctor for her and she was diagnosed properly She was back to her normal life in like two months So that always stayed with me The only reason she had to suffer for 10 years was she didn't have access to a good clinician And the only reason for that was she was in a small town Now technology in the last 10 years has developed a stage where we can overcome this barrier Of access because of geography So that's how I got interested in the mental health space And in 2015 with a friend of mine, we started a brand called Serenity Which focused on bringing affordable counseling and therapy sessions And psychiatric sessions online to different parts of the country That business got acquired by CureFit in 2019 and is now rebranded as MindFit And since 2020, since the pandemic started, I've been looking at the emotional well-being at workplace Because one thing that has happened in the last two years is irrespective of what COVID is and will be I think the big change which will happen is how workplaces of the future will look like What employment will look like, what is hybrid work And how all of this will impact not only your workspace but also your emotional well-being We are not designed to spend 24 hours of our lives within our own homes We are social animals Work was in many cases, particularly in countries like India Was a relief You got out of the home, went to an air-conditioned place where everything was structured for you In many cases, offices were much better structured than homes Now you are stuck in your rooms trying to deal with all kinds of things And emotional impact of that is significant So we built this new brand called Mana Wellness Working with companies to support their employee well-being We right now work with over 50 companies both in India and in Singapore And support the employee well-being of about 18,000 employees across these companies So when you say we support wellness for employees Specifically what do you do for these 50 clients? What kind of scenarios are there? What do you do? And what is the problem you are trying to solve for them? Right, one of the big challenges Abhijeet in the mental health space is It's fairly reactive, something has to go wrong before some intervention is done Our approach has been don't wait for things to go wrong Don't wait for employees to burn out Don't wait for employees to quit the job because they can't handle the stress Don't wait for issues to spiral out of control Like we say, if you are looking for the big event then it's probably too late So how do we focus on the small events? And the way to start with is doing an assessment of the current state of well-being of employees So we start everything with an assessment Much like you do a physical health checkup at the beginning of the year Our belief is in the future you will do an annual well-being check Which gives you an idea of what are the current state, what is the current state where you are What are the challenges that you might run into And what are the coping mechanisms that you might need Once we get that report for the individual and for the entire organization We create specific interventions tailored to individuals Whether it is counseling, therapy or other support And at the organization level we also run different programs Which include well-being challenges, well-being retreats, educational programs And also building capacity within the organization to train people to become mental health champions So that they can identify issues within their networks, within their teams, within their company Much before they become big issues So in some sense it is a lot like doing the vision if I were to understand you It is a lot like becoming first aid champions for mental health So you recognize the signs and all of that What are some of the early warning signs that if I were to take it for myself What should I be looking for? What are some of the things, whether it is burning or stress What are those usual things that are, as you said that if you are looking for the big breakdown Then it is probably too late anyway But what was it that people should be looking out for? So what are things I should watch? So that is an interesting question Because when people talk about emotional challenges or well-being challenges Most people think of it in extremes They think of it as breakdown, depression, you are burnt out, etc But mental health and well-being impacts all of us on a daily basis You have good days, bad days, you have tough days, etc So the trick is to really to identify who is not able to cope with these things Because there is no way we can avoid stress at workplace That is not happening, there is going to be some kind of stress The ability to handle that, the ability to manage it is what we should be focusing on But in spite of that, if you see repeated absenteeism, you know, a change of behavior Or an involvement in meetings or not contributing as earlier I think that gives a signal that it's time for a chat Getting somebody to speak to that person and identifying if there is something going on With their family, with their personal life And really having that conversation is the first step And in the last one year, this has been an extraordinary time In the last one year, everybody you know, I know has gone through some personal loss And it's obviously going to impact you in a significant way Now being accommodative of those kind of situations in a work environment has become extremely important To the extent that we believe that going forward, knowing how to support their employee well-being Is going to be a leadership skill It's not an HR skill that is required, it's really every leader in an organization Will have to build the capacity, will have to build the skills To be able to identify these small points or big points And be able to have the conversation with the individual to help them overcome those issues I absolutely agree with that And I remember in one of my LinkedIn posts I did write about the fact that You know, if you look at it as a competency, then it is something that you train towards You know, you learn to recognize the symptoms, you do the assessments But if you don't do that, then it becomes something that takes you by surprise And historically, you know, talking about mental health issues has been taboo You know, people don't either they don't know how to handle it and therefore don't want to talk about it Or the belief is as you said that, you know, I've seen that people with even things like cerebral palsy There's a friend of mine who has that and he says for the first nine years or 10 years of his life His parents were told that your son is mad and therefore, you know, was not allowed to be put into a regular school So, you know, just the lack of awareness can be a devastating, you know, challenge to deal with What do you see has changed about our comfort in accepting, you know, well-being In the way that you are defining a very broad sense of mental well-being as well as physical and all that You see a change or still a subject of taboo? I think it's a subject of taboo. I don't think we have yet, you know, become very open to it But things are changing, you know, every time people ask me this question, I look back on some historical reference, right? If you look at diversity and inclusion, it started with the conversation It started with asking the question that why don't we have diversity at workplace? Or if you go back in history and talk about even physical fitness, 40 years ago The only people who went to the gyms were bodybuilders You know, if you went to, there was a little bit of an acceptance, right? Today, if you don't go to a gym, it's you're an outsider Our belief is in the next 10 years, going and seeking support for mental well-being and improvement will be as common as going to the gym And then the conversation will shift completely, right? Till that time, all of us will have to do a little bit to move the conversation forward Make sure that people are aware of these issues And one thing, Abhijit, I think we have to realize is mental health and mental illness are two different things Mental illness impacts 10 to 12% of the population Mental health impacts all of us, 100% of the population, right? So as long as we start realizing that mental health is what we all need as individuals And more importantly as employees, parents and citizens I think we will be able to make much bigger impact on this space As long as we talk about mental health as illness, I think we'll make very little progress And when you look at the ability of the organizations to address this issue from the competency point of view What should they be setting up? What is the infrastructure they need to be investing in? What kind of partnerships should they be building in? Talk to me about how some of your clients have gone about doing it When they approached you, what was the trigger? Or was there no trigger? They just had, you know, we thought about it What do you see as common people? Yeah, so there are three types of organizations that work with us Number one, organizations who really believe that it is important to support employee well-being Given the circumstance, right? They are truly progressive organizations, they believe And it starts from the CEO, the CHRO level, right? They say, what can we do to help with employee well-being? So that's one type of organization The second one is somebody who has had an adverse event at workplace, right? Either they had an employee going through a serious issue Or somebody in their immediate family had an issue They are saying, you know, how can we make sure that if this happens in the future, we are ready And the third type of organization is curious Of curious about what else can we do? What can we do to support employee well-being? Given that, you know, everybody is talking about it And each of these organizations come with different expectations And then we start working with them, A, in identifying what are the critical factors that they should look at But most importantly, we spend a lot of time in getting leadership by The number one success factor of implementing a well-being program in any organization is leadership by And we have seen it over and over again Unless we have got the CEO talking about it or the CHRO talking about it It will be just another HR initiative, which will die its own death, natural death in few months So we spend a lot of time in making sure that we have the right leadership by So that it percolates across the organization And then we put in effort to engage all employees Not just few employees who are seeking therapy or counseling So that's what I would say has been our experience of it When, you know, this morning I was actually on a panel with on LinkedIn And we were talking about, you know, how do you talk about organization culture when the entire workforce is remote One of the unspoken elements of the remote workplace And you sort of referred to it briefly earlier In this isolation that we have, the lack of social contact The question I have is that we are not meeting our friends or loved ones or colleagues or anyone, even strangers We are not meeting them often enough in person It's only on video or Zoom like this we are talking to people Is let us say an 8-hour conversation with a variety of people Is that the equivalent of 8 hours of in-person meeting? Yes or no? Oh, that's a tough one. That's a tough one You know, this entire interface is not natural for us I mean, the ability to read each other's emotions, body language The energy that you pass to each other just by being in the room together It cannot be done through a Zoom meeting. I mean, we can try as much as we can, but it's very tough to do So I think there is something to be said about how do you transfer the same level of empathy, the emotions, the energy From a face-to-face interaction to this Having said that, I think the future of work is clearly hybrid I don't think we are ever going to go back to this idea that people have to come to a central place to be productive That's not going to happen The other equation is that we have to be 8 hours Zoom call. I think that's also not going to happen The answer is going to be somewhere in between There are companies already planning their workforce in a way that they meet once a month for two days and the rest of the time it's remote It could be once a quarter or it could be anything like that But there has to be an opportunity for people to come, you know, get to know each other in person and sort of transfer that energy if you will And a large part of that is again going back to your question How do we build the elements of culture that we want the entire organization to sort of live by? And it's going to be very, very tough if it's entirely remote. Imagine hiring people now They've never been to your office, they've never met your colleagues They've just started their career in a remote setting, it's extremely hard And then there are other challenges, 80%, 90% of our homes in India are not geared up to work from home We have so many other things happening in our lives, so how do we make sure that we are able to dedicate time and space? All of these challenges are there So I think if I were to go back to your question Building culture remotely would be a significant investment of organizations and HR leaders over the next decade And I think there will be a lot of new elements like mental health, how do we reward and recognize people? How do we take breaks in this new hybrid environment, etc. will become very interesting topics to think about I also think that one of the ways when we think about work I also think that we need to use a fresh lens to be able to think about work So for example, when people say that it's possible to entirely do everything on Zoom Functionally speaking, absolutely, it is possible to do most of the things You're on this, you are of course working in a lab where you need to work with either equipment or chemicals and all that stuff For manufacturing facilities, you can't manufacture a car on Zoom or pharmaceuticals So there are sectors where it is tough to do Having said that, I think there is an emotional fulfillment that we derive out of in-person conversations And the best way to answer that is, you and I often tell people that Imagine you have the option to never ever meet any friend of yours A bit like what we've experienced in the last two years But in an extreme, forever, you're not going to be able to meet them in person You can only do calls on video, etc. with them Would you ever feel the need to meet them in person? And if the answer is yes, and I think that's really what we are referring to That a lot of times people want to go to the workspace for socializing The social need, the coffee table conversations, the little understanding of the culture of the organization And one of the pieces that happens is why it causes so much stress Is because many of the things that we pick up by observing others, we lose in video And that causes stress, you know, so you're seeing something or people listening Are others engaged? Do they disagree? You can't do that, it's ineffective So I think those are many reasons why we perhaps add a competent person going back to the office Workspace, mental well-being, or well-being in general, if we talk about that Where do you see mana wellness, the role of the company that you have? What role do you see it performing in, let's say, five years from now? Where do you see it? Right, before I get into that Abhijith, one of the interesting parallels to what you said is The tribal nature of humans, right? We all want to belong to a tribe And work in many cases is a tribe for us, right? Of course it gives you the financial support to survive, etc. But it also creates a very strong sense of belonging, right? And what is culture, but a strong sense of belonging alignment with something greater than yourself, right? And coming back to your question, we want to be that organization which helps you build that culture, that belongingness That psychological safety at work where employees feel that, okay, you know, this is a place where I belong I feel I am safe to experiment, I feel I am safe to save what is on my mind and there are people to support me And all of this needs organizations to recognize that it's important to train people in emotional well-being And also the ability to recognize signs of emotional distress So our role is really to build capacity If I look back, look ahead ten years, I think there will be a chief well-being officer at large organizations, right? Because my prediction is in the future, organizations are really a collection of people which basically are designed for well-being of individuals And then they do together something, you know, to serve a purpose, make a product or deliver a service But really the role of the organization is to look after the well-being And well-being, financial, spiritual, emotional, physical, emotional, all of that And if that is the core of the organization, we need somebody to anchor that And I believe it has already started, it's not that I am sort of hypothesizing here You know, Deloitte has a chief well-being officer Yes Right, so there will be a pointed somebody So I am beginning to believe that that will be a trend that we will see over the next decade So does the chief well-being officer need to be a medical doctor or just somebody who has an incredible ability to empathize? Which of the two would you choose? Yeah, I think it's going to be somebody who has high level of empathy, high level of recognition that this is an important skill You know, if you remember in the early days of HR, there was no structured program, right? There was no human resource department My father, I remember, was admin, personal, those kind of departments, right? And there is a subset of people, a subset of people realize that this is much more than bookkeeping or recordkeeping Right? And how do I build the capacity to proactively? I think there will be a new stream of people who will be A, evolving And second, there will also be a structured program where people will be trained as chief well-being officers And when you look at the organizations who currently do not have any space for, let's say, well-being This has not been part of the agenda, they haven't thought about it And it has actually forced a number of organizations to talk about issues which they have traditionally never dealt with And I can vouch for that because a number of organizations which are now really trying to see how do we focus on the intangible elements And the intangible elements have been found Today, among the listeners who we have here, I recognize some of the people who are very well-known coaches Who are from vocational institutions and there are corporate leaders here I recognize many of the names and thank you so much for joining The question I have from one of them is, if you had to get started tomorrow morning What are some of the steps, 3, 4, 5 things that you need to do to be able to start to put well-being on the agenda And perhaps if they wanted to work with you, what really is the method to go about doing that? How would you talk about it? Whether to work with you or somebody else? Yeah, so there are many things you can do, of course One thing that we don't recommend to do is one-off activities Don't do a webinar, don't do a workshop and forget about it So that's the worst thing to start with What we recommend is 3 things Start by asking your employees What is it that will be helpful for their emotional well-being? Let them come up with ideas The second is to create with them For example, the best thing to do is to create a small committee of employees And not do a top-down from the HR team And third is to find the right resources for whatever they are struggling with If they are saying employees are typically struggling today with work-life balance Managing relationships, extreme burnout Creating boundaries between work and life And things like that So bring experts who can address those issues Answer their questions in a sensitive and empathetic manner And then immediately we recommend that you do an assessment of the entire team Using very standardised techniques Which gives you an idea of what individual struggles are there in different groups And second, as an organisation, what could be some big elements that are affecting the employees And then decide what you want to do based on those results So what I hear you say is that make an assessment Talk to the employees Which is probably a very nice way of looking at it Because it's not one person's view of what should be done It's really what the employees feel where there is an actual need to be addressed Whatever that might be I'm going to sort of really, as we are getting to the end of this conversation I just want to seek your advice And since we have a doctor on board I just think that we must actually get some free advice from you One of the questions I would have is What are some of the two or three things that we can do for physical well-being And I'm going to talk to you about physical well-being, spiritual well-being, emotional well-being Mental well-being, all of that I'm going to sort of bring that up What are one or two things that you do to stay healthy Because I know you lead an extremely busy life And you are managing a bunch of different things You're an entrepreneur, you're a doctor, you're an advisor You're sort of so many different things Which is quite inspiring How do you handle physical well-being? Yeah, so first of all, Abhijeet, I think people should identify What makes sense for them at the stage in life Their social situation, etc. Because what I worry about is There is so much emphasis on physical fitness nowadays That people have developed this sense of guilt If they're not able to make the time to go to the gym I think it's okay We don't have to go to the extreme of becoming obsessed Obsessed with fitness I think it's okay Moderate physical exercise Whether it is working or walking Or anything which is moderate do-able The important point is finding something That you can do continuously without getting bored For one year, two year, three year at a time Because much like everything Exercise and physical fitness also compounds No point doing something for one month and forgetting about it Again, it will not give you the results that you want Second is if you want to invest in a mix of mental and physical wellness I think that's probably the best way to approach this And everything in moderation I'm not of a belief that you have to take anything to extreme I don't believe in dieting I don't believe in going after meditation Retreat or intense meditation Everything in moderation If you can allocate 30 minutes, 40 minutes per day I think it's a good start The key is consistency The key is not to do amazing different things every day Same boring things done, you know, five days a week Good enough Yeah, I think in many ways I remember when I was Trying to learn how to play a musical instrument My teacher used to tell me that Look, I'd rather that you spend 15 minutes every day practicing Rather than to spend five hours on one particular day And then never show up for the next three months You're not going to learn anything So I think the whole message that I pick from you is You know, whether it's So if you're not able to go to the gym It's okay, you know, something moderate is good enough If you're able to allocate 30 to 40 minutes of the day For your physical and mental wellbeing That's a good start The key lies in just doing it consistently Maybe five days a week and take two days off Even that itself, you know, that freedom I think really makes a difference What do you think we can do to avoid burnout and stress? You know, what are some of the things that you would say? So, you know, stress and burnout In corporate environment is a given I think there's always going to be some element of stress How do you avoid that becoming overwhelming? Ability to manage stress is more important than avoiding stress So how do you build that coping mechanism? And there are two ways that we think are relevant One is individual coping mechanisms And second, if you have seen the recent publication Is that how do you leverage the community To build that resilience? For a very long time, we have been told That we have to build internal resilience Now the thinking is you don't have to do it alone How do you build a community around you To support you in times like this? You know, talking to people, getting access to Support from friends, family, etc That's the kind of resilience which is more long lasting Than, you know, this whole idea To overcome the strong will things that are affecting you So building that social infrastructure For overcoming these issues like stress and burnout Of course with individual, you know, efforts Will go a long way And I think what you said is so true That this whole business of doing it by yourself You know, building your own resilience By yourself, that isolation I think that's more of a western point of view Whereas the eastern point of view That we have always grown up with is that Your well-being comes from a sense of well-being Being a part of the community, you know Investing in it, receiving from it You know, investing in your relationships Becomes really critically important I just really think that it's been An incredible opportunity for me to partner with you You know, I know that I've never spoken about it explicitly But Season 3 of Dreamers and Unicorns You know, was thanks to Dr. Ashwin Naik And Mana Wellness Really valued the partnership and the opportunity I have had Thanks to this partnership To be able to talk about wellness And also learn from so many of the people You know, how to live a more fulfilling and enriching life And that I owe to you You've been quite a source of inspiration for me personally So thank you so very much And I truly appreciate your being here I know you've been in the middle Of a number of different things You yourself have recovered from COVID Or barely recovered, I should say Which is why we couldn't have the conversation last week But this is brilliant Thank you so much for being here Thank you, thank you Abhijit For your partnership, I think it's been incredible The way you have taken the conversation Around well-being into workplaces With some of these amazing leaders That we've been able to attract But more importantly translating The need of well-being As a skill, like you said In the workplace for the future I think it's been an incredible experience for us Thanks again for partnering with us on this journey Thank you very very much And you know, for all those Who are listening in and tuning in Thank you so much for joining I appreciate all the comments Of the nice things you've had to say And we are going to have Another very interesting guest On Sunday evening at 7pm Don't forget to join us Until then, goodbye, take care Stay connected, stay curious