 Would you say that her most significant conversion was before the Eche Homo Statue of Jesus, right, or was it at the pillar, scourging at the pillar? I think it was the Eche Homo Statue, right? Yeah, and yeah, it was a powerful moment because we know from her life, about a third of the life, it goes over how she was drawn to prayer and she was drawn to do something heroic and beautiful for God, but every time she began to go into it, she ran up against something that discouraged her and she would backslide, and that moment was the moment where she told Jesus, I won't get up for my knees until you give me the grace not to backslide anymore, and the reason why she prayed that prayer was it was a moment of actual grace through the statue. She says it wasn't as if she was looking at a statue anymore, but Jesus in the immensity of his love revealed to her how much he loved her, how much he has held nothing back so that we might know the love of the Father, and when that pierced her heart, it opened up, it opened up a whole new pathway in her spiritual life. Even at the time of her conversion too, she, I can't remember the exact sequence, but just before and just after that event, she was reading also the Confessions of St. Augustine and the life of Antony, and so these, she was doing, I mean, for those who, some ask, well, how do I have that kind of conversion in my life? And one of the things you can do is dispose yourself to it by reading the right kinds of things. Read people who've lived a converted life, and you hear how God works in their lives, and it opens you up to the way God may want to work in yours. If I remember right, she said that during that period at least, she never went to prayer without a book, so she spent a lot of time in spiritual reading that then aided her prayer, right? Yeah, well, and you know, today the different spiritual families like the Carthusians are adamant that you should always have a book with you when you go into mental prayer. Now later on she didn't, of course, when her prayer simplified, and I think that was post conversion when she began to know infused contemplative kinds of prayer, and that, she no longer needed the aid of that kind of spiritual reading, right? While that's true, it's also true that we can find, even as she describes the highest levels of union, the fact that sometimes a soul struggles with very basic kinds of prayer, no matter how advanced you go. And so I think she retained throughout her spiritual pilgrimage a profound humility about her humanity and the aid that spiritual reading or the scriptures or memorizing passages from the scriptures can be for mental prayer.