 The 13th meeting of the Criminal Justice Committee in 2023. We have apologies this morning from Pauline McNeill. Our first item of business today is to consider whether to take item 6 on our approach to legislation in private. Are we all agreed? Our next item of business is an oral evidence session on the affirmative instrument, namely the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act of 2022, consequential modifications, saving and transitional provisions regulations of 2023. The affirmative instrument, along with the negative instrument that we shall consider later in the meeting, forms a package of SSIs that brings certain provisions of the Fireworks and Pyrotechnics Articles Scotland Act of 2022 into force. We will also take this opportunity to consider correspondence from the minister on the timetable for the implementation of the remaining provisions of the 2022 act. I welcome to the meeting Siobhan Brown, MSP Minister for Victims and Community Safety, Mary Hockenhall, Safer Communities Policy, Fiona McDermid, unit head of building Safer Communities and Claire McKinley solicitor with the Scottish Government. I welcome to you all. Let me take the opportunity to welcome Ms Brown to her Euro. I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I invite the minister to speak to the affirmative instrument. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today about the two sets of regulations relating to the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022. If I may convene, I will go through the regulations and also give the committee an update on where we are with the bill. The two sets of regulations, along with the commencement regulations, will allow the pyrotechnic possession offence provisions in part 5 of the Fireworks and Pyrotechnics Articles Scotland Act 2022 to take effect from 6 June. The reckless and dangerous misuse of pyrotechnics at events is a growing problem. I strongly believe that this legislation is necessary if we are to ensure proactive preventative action can be taken to stop it in all places in which it occurs. Most recently, misuse at football has been the focus of much media attention, and I'm sure we've all seen the unacceptable images of whole sections of stands lit up with flares and blanketed by smoke. But pyrotechnic misuse is not limited only to football. We've seen pyrotechnic misuse at music concerts and festivals and also at public gatherings. Such misuse has a potential to cause serious harm and to distress those in the vicinity, including by the smoke admitted by it. Physical risks include burns, the maiming of limbs, hearing injuries and breathing difficulties, particularly amongst people with health conditions such as asthma. There is also a risk from crowd panic and crowd surge when pyrotechnics are used unexpectedly in crowded places, or simply causing fear and alarm through the noise of explosions and the brightness of flares. Key to the new legislation is the ability to take preventative action before a situation becomes potentially dangerous for the individual or those around them, including for the police officers and security staff. Taking a pyrotechnic article into a designated football ground is, of course, already a criminal offence. However, by the time an individual has reached the ground itself, the ability to take preventative action can be hindered by the volume of people entering the ground at the same time. What's a pyrotechnic has been carried into the ground and certainly by the time it has been deployed it can be extremely difficult for the police and the security staff at the ground to identify, isolate and detain the culprit safely. In developing the legislation we listened to our partners and our stakeholders, including Police Scotland, the Scottish Police Federation, health advocacy groups and the wider public, who made it clear that something more was needed to be done. That's why the 2022 act created two offences relating to the possession of pyrotechnics. Firstly, an offence of being in possession of a pyrotechnic article excluding F1 fireworks in any public place without reasonable excuse, and secondly, an offence of being in possession of any pyrotechnic article including all fireworks at a designated sporting or music venue or event without reasonable excuse. In passing the fireworks and pyrotechnic articles Scotland Act 2020 last year, the Scottish Parliament overwhelmingly agreed that the introduction of these offences was necessary and the SSIs being considered today ensure that those offences can operate in an effective proportionate and transparent way. The draft fireworks and pyrotechnic articles Scotland Act 2022 consequentials modifications, savings and transitional provisions regulations 2023 is a fairly technical instrument but it is necessary to give full effect to the new offences. These regulations repeal the offence relating to pyrotechnics in certain sports grounds set out in the criminal law consolidation Scotland Act 1995. In practice that offence currently applies only to certain football matches and stadia. This is no longer needed as the new offence will apply to all designated venues or events including football matches. It also ensures that any relevant criminal proceedings already in progress under the 1995 act at the time of commencement can continue and that the accused in any such case will receive parity in terms of the available defence. The fireworks and pyrotechnic articles Scotland Act 2022 designation of events and incidental provision regulations 2023 designate the class of sporting events and the class of music events for the purpose of section 36 of the 2022 act. The regulations provide that the new offence will apply to live sports events before an audience in a venue with a capacity of a thousand or more spectators. It will also apply to live music performances again in a venue with capacity for one thousand or more in the audience and relation to music events such as festivals. It will also cover areas such as camping sites linked to the event. In designating classes of sporting and music events in this way and by the creation of two distinct offences in the act, we ensure proportionality in the restrictions applied to the different places. We also ensure that new legislation maintains and adds to the protections of sports grounds set out in the previous offence from the 1995 act. The act provides place with the stop and search power without a warrant where there is reasonable grounds to suspect a person who is committing an offence under the act, supporting the intelligence led by led placing they already carry out in many of the sporting and music events. But we are clear this legislation is not about preventing the use is about preventing the misuse of pyrotex not about preventing the spectacle of professionally organised pyrotechnic displays at events. Neither is it about preventing the use of safety flares. It's vital that we do nothing that could inhibit the possession and the use of potentially life-saving devices for those involved in activities such as sailing, mountaineering and also hill walking. There is therefore a need for clear messaging and awareness to accompany the new legislation, and this will ensure an understanding and increased compliance with the law. That is why we have been engaging with a wide range of organisations including football authorities, the events industry, Marine Scotland, the RNLI, the Royal Yotting Association, Lungen Asthma UK and the Epilepsy Society in advance of commencement of these provisions. I've also asked my officials to develop a public awareness and information campaign to coincide with the commencement of these new offences in early June, and we will continue to involve these key organisations as this is developed and implemented. The SSIs that are being discussed today are necessary to allow the provisions of the part 5 of the act to be passed by Parliament last year to operate effectively and proportionately. That is essential if we are able to enable positive preventative action to stop the misuse of pyrotechnics. A problem that this committee has already agreed needs to be addressed. I also understand that the committee would like to discuss the implementation timescales for the remaining measures of the act. The on-going significant challenging financial context is impacting our ability to implement the remaining measures within the originally anticipated timescales. Since the passage of the bill for the act through Parliament, the financial context has shifted significantly, and decisive budget decisions have been required to ensure that vital public services across the justice portfolio and wider are protected. While full implementation of the act will take place over a longer period of time, the revised timings will continue to build on good progress that has already been made and deliver further positive change year on year for our communities. The revised timescales mean that, as originally planned, the firework control zone provisions will commence in June ahead of bonfire night this year in 2023. I intend to lay commencement regulations in Parliament before the summer recess to deliver this. The personal fireworks licensing system will take effect in autumn 2024 at the earliest. The restricted days of supply and use provisions and any related compensation arrangements will commence in a future financial year beyond 2024. To conclude, I would like to reassure the committee that I am committed to the implementation of the act, and I believe that the adapted incremental approach to the implementation is the best route forward to delivering tangible changes in light of the unprecedented financial challenges that we currently face. I am happy to take any questions from the committee. Thank you very much, minister. That was very helpful. We will just move to questions. I wonder if I can maybe kick off—I know that there are one or two members wanting to come in—by coming to the designation of a music and sporting event. I know that, within that definition, it includes reference to an event venue that has the capacity for a thousand or more attendees. I am just wondering if there is scope that potentially there could be issues around the use of pyrotechnics in a venue that has a smaller capacity than that. For example, a smaller football ground up in the north-east has quite a number of small football teams, where I am not suggesting for one moment that there is an issue with pyrotechnics, but technically there could be an issue in a smaller venue. I am just wondering if there has been any consideration of venues that have a capacity less than a thousand. Thank you, convener. I think that you raised a very valid point. I will come on to how we got to a thousand capacity in the first place, and then I might bring in some officials to comment further on it. We got the thousand capacity threshold to provide certainty for the organisers and attendees and for the police enforcing these offences. The designation applies by reference to the capacity of the venue where the event takes place. I accept that, when deciding on a figure in this way, it is always challenging to set a fixed number as a limit. The one thousand capacity was reached to ensure proportionality and ensure that additional restrictions apply where these could be most necessary and effective and in keeping with scope of the 2022 act. Larger-sized events are included as available evidence suggests that pyrotechnic misuse is more likely at the larger events. The risk of potential harm in crowded places and larger groups from pyrotechnic misuse also includes the risk of crowd panic and crowd search. That does not mean that it is acceptable or safe to be taken into smaller venues. The broader public place possession offence will provide a significant level of protection or music events, regardless of whether they have been designated or not, as it prohibits the possession of most pyrotechnics, including fireworks, without reasonable excuse. Engagement with relevant stakeholders has shown that most such events already restrict any attempts to bring in or use pyrotechnic articles, for example, as in prohibited items, so even in music events you'll know bags are searched for alcohol as it is, meaning that designation will not take place in any additional burden on those who are organising and managing such effects. As that comes into place on June 6, I am keen that we have a public awareness campaign that everybody knows that this act will now be regulated, so people know that it is an offence to bring into larger events and into the smaller events. I do not know if any of my officials want to comment further on anything. Thank you very much. That is really helpful. I want to follow up on that. I wonder if there would perhaps be scope just to monitor going forward once that provision is in place after June that there would be a piece of work, potentially just to monitor potential incidents in smaller venues and obviously respond accordingly if it's proving to be something that is problematic, but that I appreciate your response, minister. I'll open it up to members and I've got Collette Stevenson followed by Katie. Good morning minister and a very warm welcome to your new role as well. You touched upon it earlier and it's in relation to the policy objectives and it was really just to see if you could give an example of what a reasonable excuse of using a pyrotechnic may be. Well there is no reasonable excuse for using a pyrotechnic but having one in position there could be a reasonable excuse such an example could be if you're in a football stadium and a security guard confiscates one and then is on route to put it into a safe place then he has a reasonable excuse to have it in his position. Okay, no thank you. The other thing I wanted to touch upon and you mentioned this about public awareness and putting forward initiatives as well so to encourage sports grounds and events organisers to ensure they're using their own controlled pyrotechnics and we've seen that particularly in the football game on Saturday where it was delayed because it was so crowded and fog and whatnot as well. So the other thing I wanted to see if you could elaborate on was public awareness in terms of the fireworks and I know it's being phased out but we're really keen to see awareness and so the public are aware of what we're doing in terms of of the fireworks. Yes, I know that we are going to be having a public awareness campaign coinciding as I said in June and we're working with Police Scotland and with all local authorities in relation to that as the regulations that are being introduced today so that they're aware of them as we progress through the act. Okay, no, that's great. No further questions. Katie and then Jamie. Thank you, I was wanting to ask about the timetable and congratulations again on your appointment. I will be supporting the creation of the new offences today. Labour supported this legislation because of the creation of the various new criminal offences in the now act despite the fact that we had concerns around about the operation of the licensing scheme. You mentioned that we will be looking at a piece of delegated legislation in relation to control zones before June and I wondered whether it's possible to share with the committee prior to June any information in terms of the definition of control zones, which was a live issue as the legislation went through this Parliament. As you'll appreciate, the turnaround can be quite tight when the committee gets statutory instruments to look at so the earlier that we were able to get that information the more we would be able to really actively consider and scrutinise it so if it was possible to get early sight then that would be very helpful and indeed also if it was possible to get information in the licensing scheme earlier that would be helpful. I appreciate that that's at a far earlier stage because there were very genuine concerns that were being raised but of course that will partly depend on the practicalities and the detail in terms of how the legislation and the Government takes this forward and it would be useful for members of this committee who've looked at the legislation in detail to have an opportunity to consider that. Firstly to address the firework control zones so the act will set out requirements for local authorities as part of the process of considering and designating firework control zones. This will include a requirement to consult widely on any proposals to designate new zones as well as a requirement to publish any decisions as a result of consultation for 60 days before the new control zone comes into effect so I appreciate that there might be very short of time and I know that my officials are working with two local authorities at the moment to ensure that they can have this in place for this year. So time has been required for a meaningful co-design process to be progressed with the local authorities communities and the wider stakeholders to develop effective guidance for local authorities on the consideration and designation of firework control zones. It's therefore not being visible to commence powers and earlier than it was planned for the commencement regulations to be laid in June. It is possible for the local authorities to undertake the process once the power is coming to effect ahead of summer recess although the timescales will be challenging as I have said we're therefore working closely with a small number of local authorities that we know have a strong desire to put use to the power promptly to designate zone ahead of the bonfire nights this year. Consultation and engagement with local authorities has informed the approach that we've taken and to continue to build on this. The Scottish Government in partnership with the Scottish Community Safety Network will undertake a programme of engagement with local authorities following commencement of firework control provisions to further raise awareness of the powers and how they could be used to tackle firework issues moving forward and the licensing scheme that you mentioned you're correct we we do not have detail on that because as you know that it has been delayed but what I will do is um I can let you know that the act sets out the core elements on how the licensing scheme will function and the requirements that will be put in place and subsequent secondary legislation will be utilised to set out the operational and administrative details to the system. My officials are developing proposals with a consultation as part of the overall programme to work to implement the licensing system and I'm happy to keep the committee updated on all progress as that continues. Thank you very much. Jamie Russell. Thank you. I'll try and rathle through my questions and welcome to the committee minister and congratulations on your appointment. I want to first address the issue of pyrotechnics and flare misuse in sporting events, particularly football, which clearly is the most high profile of events that's been reported in the media. Now obviously the existing legislation, the criminal law consolidation act 95, already makes it illegal for pyrotechnics to be taking into sporting events. Clearly that's failing, otherwise we wouldn't need to afford police more powers. Can you just explain the difference as to what is already illegal inside football stadiums as to what will happen and change in June for the benefit of those who attend such venues? Sure. So what can happen at the moment, as I said previously in my opening statement, is it's the logistics of when we saw it all on the weekend with the old firm gate, like trying to get down there and detain the people that have deployed the pyrotechnic devices, this will allow police and I'm not going to get into the operational of the police because it is up to them with their intelligence to look at people that are perhaps doing this at football stadiums and to proactively as they enter the stadium to search and remove the pyrotechnic from the law, charge them with having a pyrotechnic. So the idea is given that it's not difficult to see who's letting them off, their own camera, their security guards or in the stadium, so the police must have fair amount of intelligence to the individuals who are routinely responsible for this and the reason I mentioned that is it's not just individuals, there seems to be a concerted and collective effort to let off fflares at specific points during or before a game. We've also seen the unfurling of banners related to the pyrotechnics issue so I would ask what consultation the Scottish Government has had with football clubs, the SFA and also supporters organisations because it clearly is an underlying problem that's not limited to individuals just breaking the law. These are clearly co-ordinated events so how on earth is the police going to tackle the sheer volume of people that are letting them off? Now I appreciate where you're coming from on this and I think what we've seen has been escalating in several years with pyrotechnic fireworks at football games and they're dangerous. They're dangerous, we have had people that have injured and there was a death of a child in Europe at a football game as well. So they're dangerous and I think because it's accelerated it's only a matter of time. My understanding is historically there has been engagement with the football but I'm happy to bring in one of my officials that probably has more knowledge on the history. Yeah and just before you do I mean I guess what we're looking for is you know why are the clubs themselves not facing any any penalty or liability here if their own supporters are the routinely breaking the existing law and clearly will now be breaking new laws that we've passed. You know because it seems to happen endlessly there seems to be no recourse for the clubs themselves and I wonder if that's a conversation that's taken place with clubs themselves. On the regulations themselves we've had engagement with SPFL SFA at the time of the the bill process there was also engagement with supporters groups and wider if it's on the detail of the act and then subsequently the regulations and they're supportive of anything that sorry the SPF the authorities and clubs are supportive of things that can help them to tackle it in a more proactive way. In terms of misuse of pyrotechnics more broadly and what can be done in terms of enforcement and when it comes to the operational side there's ongoing discussions on this. I my colleagues in active Scotland and the minister for sports and we would have been more involved I understand but I could certainly could certainly get some further information on the detail of engagement that's happening around this but we'll also be engaging in the run-up to commencement and making sure that the messaging for football fans and for sport along with Police Scotland via Police Scotland as well. Is the plan then that the using intelligence police will stop and search prior to entry to the stadium if fireworks pyrotechnics flares or other device are found on the persons will they be denied entry and the items removed or will the items be removed and still be allowed entry to the football game just to be clear? I am unable to answer that question I don't have that detail I can find out but my understanding would be that they would remove it and they would not be able to go into the football game and they would be charged with being in possession. So they would actually be charged at that time? It's a police operational matter so I don't want to comment on what would be there isn't it it's knowing that you may you know you may end up in a prison cell. I would hope also and I know that the football clubs are supportive of that is when we have a public campaigning that they would be supporting it as well as we move forward to deter fans from using pyrotechnics at football games. Okay that's great. Can I ask you a few other bits and bobs one is the public witness campaign obviously the introduction of this will be June this year but we passed this committee passed the bill last year would it not have been helpful to start that a little bit earlier the public is is there any reason why it's been delayed till after the commencement of the legislation not before? I think because we had to engage with stakeholders and that's why we haven't been able to implement it until June that we didn't have the detail to move forward with the public campaign so I'm very keen for the public campaign to go live in June to be in place for Bonn and Finite this year. I'm sure we'll all support that. In the policy briefing that came with the SSIs there was a section on financial effects it states that the minister of community safety confirms that these instruments have no financial effects on the Scottish Government, local government or on business my two questions in relation to that are one is the multiple ministers have claimed that it is actually the financial effects of the legislation which is causing the delay which seems to contradict the what we're being asked to do today there clearly is a financial effect so I want to refer back to the original passing of the original bill in 22 what did the financial memorandum claim would be the forecasted cost of the legislation and is it the case therefore that it's crept up since then and if so could you provide some numbers and if you don't have that information to hand I'd be happy for you to write to the committee. Sorry I'll bring in Mary in a moment but I think the estimated cost for implementing measures within the act have not changed and remain as detailed in the original financial memorandum as it's noted in the financial memorandum the cost savings and changes in revenue the act are estimated ranges and the estimates are based on the information evidence and data available for on fireworks and pyrotechnic articles this mainly comes from the two large-scale public consultations the work of the independent fireworks review group and Scottish government working group on pyrotechnic use in addition the Scottish government met and engaged with stakeholders to request and examine the information data and estimates and I will bring in Mary but as I said in my opening statement we're in a very different place now financially than we were even a year or two years ago when this was first introduced so it's not to do with the cost of bringing in and this is why it's been delayed it's just due to our finances at the moment with a fixed budget. Did you want to? I can address the policy note with the SSIs specifically that financial impact is specifically for the those two SSIs only so with police in discussion with police we understand that you know they they are sort of event led intelligence led event policing there won't be significant policing additional policing costs involved and there's no cost to Scottish government in terms of that enforcement beyond what exists so that's very specifically on those SSIs sorry I don't if you want to make wish to come in on or someone on the wider fireworks legislation happy the minister stated on as stated our financial memorandum information is still correct and that's what we're working towards so just to be clear on that then the because it also states that there be no effect on business and I know we are obviously drip feeding the instruments to introduce the legislation and the actual restriction on the sale and purchase won't be until I'm presuming 2025 or thereafter so there be no compensation scheme in place until then is that correct yes because the compensation does relate to the restricted days so as the compensation regulation making powers connected to the restricted day of supply measure only and this will be implemented in the future future financial year as you mentioned it's not possible to advise when the compensation scheme for specialist fireworks will be launched okay my final question is around firework control zones because you also mentioned that they are imminent in their introduction can I ask how many local authorities will be introducing firework control zones it was a quite a meaty part of the legislation I recall and much of the feedback we had from local authorities and their representative bodies was that this would be this would come at a cost to them and I appreciate that will be another piece of legislation that you will introduce before summer recess and I'm sure we'll have time to talk about it then but it's not far away so what propriety work has taken place in conjunction with local authorities to assist them both financially for the setup of those for any localized public awareness campaigns and do we have an idea of how many firework control zones will exist this coming year and where they might be yes so I will answer the second part of your question first if I may then I'll bring in officials for the first part at the moment as we say if it's coming in in June so it's going to be if they go out to consultation it is going to have a tight timescale so we are aware the local authorities are working with our officials and I think it's Glasgow and Lothian I'm not sure the exact council it is yeah that we're so we have it in place for bonfire night this this November I'm unsure of any other local authority but they're the ones that have engaged with us that really want to use them being an ex-councillor I know what a topical issue it is locally I think it will there'll be a take up from local authorities regarding this yeah I'd dare say and we heard lots of evidence on some of the localized issues but do you know I think there may be just a slight bit of confusion amongst the public because they are getting us in a very piecemeal way so obviously there was the aggravator offence around attack and emergency service workers which I won't go into today then there was the banning of sale for miners then the firework control zones the banning of pyrotechnics and flares then there's the stricted sale use and purchase and all that's taking place at different times in different areas you know in different places so do you think there's any risk that we undermine the underlying objective of the legislation by causing public confusion around what they can and can't do now because a lot of people simply don't know what the rules are yes so I appreciate that but I do think as we move forward we have to be I'm very keen as a new minister of public awareness as we move forward we know at the time scales um going to be implemented over a time period so maybe it's better having small bits of information going out to the general public and then too much of this is going to happen in five years time so I'll be working with my officials to ensure that there's public awareness for the pyrotechnics and as we move into bonfire night with the local authorities of what's expected and the public are fully aware okay thank you thank you result and then full too just to check on the two local authorities was a vessel then rhesol on the twitter again right thank you now in sunday at hand and dozens of pyros in a highly co-ordinated action by both sets of fans it's already as my colleague jimmy green said a criminal fence to take pyros into football stadiums so why is this happening on such a big scale do you know how many arrests might have been made in relation to what happened in sunday and have you discussed it with police scotland and what practical difference would the new law make in respect of this yes so i haven't discussed it with police scotland what happened on sunday i i did see what was happening i think you're 100 correct it was totally orchestrated and as i've mentioned before this just seems to be escalating and it's dangerous and i do believe um that this ssi which will give powers to the police to search before the general public go in to remove pyrotechnics from them is different to waiting for them to for them to expel the device and then try and arrest them safely in a large crowd but the police already have powers to search fans go in they do but they will also be a general public awareness campaign because at the moment i think they think they can get away with it and they can't and i think bringing this legislation and having a public awareness campaign will reiterate that to fans especially if we have the football clubs on our side as well yeah i mean the public awareness is one thing but in terms of i'm just trying to understand what practical difference the new law will make in respect to policing police have got the powers they need already to search fans and to deal with people carrying powers within stadiums or can in stadiums they're not using them but that's not a place operational matter that i can't get involved in but i wanted to bring in Mary one of my officials who can come in just the the power that police currently have is only if the person is intending to enter the football ground itself um the public place possession offense will will restrict or will prohibit all piety techniques including all fireworks except for the very very the f1 fireworks the sparklers and things at any point at any public place without a without a reasonable excuse so there should be the ability for a much earlier proactive intervention okay thank you um now this legislation was rushed um and the Scottish Government ignored some clear warnings from various people that this was a mistake and now it's been beset by delays and there's a lack of key information around when certain measures will be introduced your predecessor in her letter to the committee said it was not possible to say when the restrictions on the days of sale and use are going to come in she also in part of the letter suggests that this might be something to do with the war in Ukraine which i think is a little bit shabby as an excuse as excuses go what do you think what's your best guess as to when this key measure will come into place so i can i just clarify what key measure is it the last measure of restricting the sale days of sale days of sale okay yes so first of all i don't think the bill was rushed through the bill for the act was subject to accelerated parliamentary timetable tool and enable the proxy purchase provisions and the emergency work aggravation to be enforced ahead of bonfire night in 2022 the bill was developed from a longer term in depth review and public consultation of firework legislation in the police powers in response to the serious incidents on bonfire night back in 2017 the outcomes and recommendations of this review was published in 2019 and we continue to work in collaboration with Keith speak honest about it can i just try to interrupt the delay is due to sorry it's didn't try and work it when you think that key measure is going to come in yes we're estimating the financial year after 2024 at this stage but as i'd said previously we never anticipated to be in the financial um place that we are now 18 months to two years ago than we are with the financial memorandum hasn't changed there's no additional cost yes but we want our budget for our fixed budget is £1.7 billion less than it was a year ago due to the crashing of the economy we're in a very different place so we've had to make hard decisions but we are very very keen that this will be implemented but it's just going to take a little bit more so this is a new date or possible date it's late 2022 as i said in my opening statement i think it was 2024 for the next financial year sorry i thought that was in relation to the licensing scheme there's licensing licensing scheme and the restricted days will be together so there's six parts of the bill which have to be implemented and if you just bear with me one of them just going back to the letter from ellen the witton um in respect of the restriction of supplying use it says it's not possible to confirm in which financial year but you think it might be 2024 the financial year after after the licensing right so the licensing will come first potentially next year and then restricted days with compensation okay i mean i'm just looking at a spice briefing that's on the scottish parliament website and it says on it quite clearly for them for the public to see that all the measures all the provisions within this act will be progressed in 2023 so that's no fault of theirs that's what they were told by government but that's what the public are currently reading do you not accept there's going to be a lot confusion out there i don't i don't accept that i think what we're in a very different place financially and i think this is where we've had to implement it in a staggered approach and i'm very happy in our public awareness campaign to note why we're actually doing this due to the financial implications of our budget sure but when i google that to try and refresh my own memory about what's quite a complicated set of circumstances it tells me that these measures all these measures all the provisions within the bill welcoming to being in 2023 this year i wasn't aware that i was currently on spice but i'm very happy to speak to officials and get that updated as soon as possible yeah okay thank you very much thank you thank you and Fulton thanks convener as it happens Russell Finlay has actually asked the exact question i was going to ask about the game on Sunday however rather than rather than withdrawing my question which i would have probably usually done given it's your first appearance today i thought i would take the opportunity to formally welcome you to your new role minister and i'll try and ask it slightly differently so the game in the game in Sundays we've spoke about the old firm match was obviously disrupted with layers right right on cue for your appearance today of course so i know i know you've already had the exchange with Russell Finlay i'm not expecting additional answers but have the government had any discussions with any of the authorities here about possible harms that were caused on the day and is there any initial analysis about how this new part of the act when it comes in if Orson June might have either prevented or alleviated what happened in Sunday do appreciate if almost answered that question but i've tried to sort of put a slightly different angle in it yes oh i'll i'll i'll i'll i'll i'll i think we're very keen to find out data of as we progress and especially with injuries i i don't think from Sunday there was any injuries that we can report but we are we've very keen to find out and get all the reports as ond we move forward because we're watching the situation very closely. I'd like to maybe bring in officials about the communication that we've had with football stadiums regarding people coming in. Yeah, I think there's certainly been, since Sunday's game, even, I know that there's been discussions between colleagues of mine and looking to see what, if there was any harms, a particular harms that came out of it. As far as I know, there wasn't, but I wouldn't want to be absolutely sure on that just now. There's going to be further discussions over the next month and beyond, I'm sure, about misuse of pyrotechnics. Regulations are one part of tackling or preventing pyrotechnic misuse, but there's a lot of other interventions and other work that needs to happen, including from football clubs and football authorities, Police Scotland, supporters groups, and that has been happening and it will continue. If I may just update you regarding the proxy purchase of events as an emergency work at Aggravation, because I think when you got the letter previously in the committee you noted, I wanted to know if there had been any arrest in relation to that. So I got an update this morning, but following the disorder and involving the fireworks witness on Halloween and over bonfire night last year, my officials have regularly liaised with Police Scotland regarding offences and charges, and as of this morning I found that there were two charges. We don't know the exact detail and I can't get into that at the moment, but as we find out more, I'm happy to share that with the committee. Police Scotland has advised that at this stage investigations with Police Scotland and the Crown Office and the Procurator of Fiscal Service are continuing and that informing relating to the specific cases is not yet available for the public domain. I'd like to reassure you that I consider gathering data in relation to the proxy purchase offence and emergency work at Aggravation to be a priority to understand how those have been used along with other firework related charges in response to the misuse of fireworks. My officials will continue to liais with Police Scotland and we will continue to monitor the situation and I'm always happy to keep the committee updated on progress. Thank you very much. Are you finished? Can I ask the minister if the Scottish Government would support measures given we know how difficult it is to often get charges, convictions and successful prosecutions given that we already have quite a wide range of laws prohibiting misuse of these devices? Would a lengthy or lifetime ban from entering a football stadium anywhere in Scotland be a deterrent or incentive, not to bring devices to sporting stadiums? Is that something that the Government would actively discuss with football clubs? I'm very open to have those discussions but I think it's something that we'd have to discuss with Police Scotland and the football clubs. Thank you very much. Thank you minister. I have a good range of questions and responses there. Just picking up on a couple of things before we move on I think we would welcome any feedback that you're able to provide on charges arising out of assault zone emergency workers. That would be helpful for the committee just to keep track of. Just to confirm during our question and answer session, section 41 of the 2022 act does give a constable party to detain a person for the purposes of a search but it doesn't appear to cover a further ban on entry to a ground. I wonder if that's maybe something that we can ask the minister to follow up on and perhaps write back to us just around those entry issues and if perhaps it is the case that a ban on entry following or finding someone in possession of a pyrotechnic article might be appropriate. If I can invite you to move motion S6M number 08408 that the Criminal Justice Committee recommends that the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act of 2022 consequential modifications, saving and transitional provisions regulations 2023 draft be approved. So the question is that motion S6M number 08408 be agreed. Are we all agreed? Great. Perfect. Thank you very much. Are members content to delegate to me the responsibility of producing a short factual report detailing our consideration of the SSI? So our next agenda item is consideration of the associated negative instrument that is the Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles Scotland Act 2022 designation of events and incidental provision regulations of 2023 and that's SSI number 98 of 2023. I refer members to paper number 3 and just ask if members have any additional questions that they would like to ask on this instrument that we've perhaps not previously covered.