 Hi everyone today. I'm here with Yovanna and I'm excited about this conversation because I'm I've been wanting for you all to Get to meet her. She has been so kind to have interviewed me on her podcast already Which is I'm looking forward to the podcast series itself because the first one was with Derek Sivers one of my heroes as well And that was a really great episode. So I hope you all will check out our podcast, but she's a rising star and You're gonna hear a lot more about her in the future But let's just get into the conversation. I'll kind of weave in a little bit about her background as we as we talk But Yovanna, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me This is such a pleasure your work changed my life last year and made me fall in love with marketing again So it's a great honor to be here. So I think we met on instagram Yeah, that's what I first found out about you on swiss miss newsletter Yes, right sends an amazing newsletter every sunday and i'm a loyal subscriber And she referenced your video That you don't have to feel like do feel right to do good that you need to do good and then you will feel right That is how I found you and then we started interacting on instagram and that's yeah Because I was sharing your content like crazy to my serbian community and at one point you're like Who are all these serbian women? And that's one of the things I've I've really noticed about you is you are very generous in sharing other people's work You're a great support of a lot of people and no wonder a lot of people want to support you back Um, one of the things you've you've ran several programs I think one of them that you're currently Emphasizing is your business revamp program, which has over 1500 people have participated in the business revamp. Is that right? Yeah Uh mostly women there are 23 guys, but mostly women Because I started that program in the ex-yugoslav region, which includes Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia And the women here not all of them speak english well So they had they had like a need for someone to explain things That are relevant here in the Balkans. It's different market than the u.s. Definitely And what's what's your sting? I mean this part of part of your what you've been able to accomplish is that You come from a region where the monthly income is something like several hundred dollars u.s 350. Yeah, 350 dollars u.s. Yeah, and you're you've been able to create a business that is More than 10 times that amount of income. And so you have a lot of Credibility, I guess to be able to help others turn their passion into a viable Income and a very good income for themselves. You've had you've had the experience of living in How many countries I know seven countries. Yeah seven countries, right? So yeah, new york You've worked you've lived and worked lived and worked in new york before that mont claire in new jersey london abu dhabi dubai Cyprus and lima soul in belgrade. So a lot of places It's mostly due to work and study I love to travel the world. I love to get to know other cultures and I love languages So I've been studying english and french since I was age five And because I was such a nerd like since the early age I heard a selen dion song on the tv And I said to my mom, I need to go to learn english to understand This is such a beautiful song and I don't understand what this woman is saying. So that is what actually started me That's amazing. And you have I mean, you've had so many experiences already You're barely 30, but you've already traveled the war. I mean you spent three years Traveling the world for free You figured out how to do that and to blog about it Um, and you've learned a lot about that. It's it's uh, I think you wrote that it's not all that it's cracked up to me. Yeah You know sounds so glamorous. Yeah, but yeah, absolutely Tell us first of all, tell us how you did that. How did you travel? For three years, you know for free get to blog about it And what was one of the key I guess lessons you learned from that experience So my parents, uh, always told me you can't travel the world for free. You need to deserve it You need to make so much money and blah, blah, blah And whenever somebody says something like that, I always um question it no matter if it's my parents If it's a professor, I don't really take authorities that they know more They just have more experience and they're speaking from their experience, which is not necessarily mine So I always want to test things and I do my research So while doing my research, I found tim ferris and I found brook soured world wonderlust She was a woman who was solo traveling from australia all over the world And I read the whole blog of hers And she impressed me because I saw that she was really traveling for free staying at these luxurious hotels And I wonder what is it? What does it take to do that? So I read everything what she wrote and then I decided to try and implement because I know that just reading by reading I'm not gonna get anywhere. So what I did is I wrote Over 110 emails to hotels in europe to offer to come and blog about it By that by that time I already had a blog since 2011 So what I did to start get that started like with I wrote 10 posts about the places I've already visited and I describe it really beautifully with nice photos that I took Keep in mind I paid for those trips But I just wrote about it from the heart and wrote a review and on the bottom of every post I wrote jovan amiljanovic was a guest at this hotel, but all my opinions are my own So I was not lying. I was just like making it look nice like If somebody was reading they would think was she paid to do right is or was she like Just writing it to write it because she likes it And I sent those 10 as a reference as a showcase of what I can write and how I present things I didn't expect anyone to take my word for it. They wanted to see results So I showed them the results of the ones I previously stated and of course 90 of the hotels never replied 10 of them Actually did majority said no and one hotel in Budapest which is really close to Serbia. It's like four hour ride by car They said yes, so that was how it all started And that was like september. I think and then in january israel embassy in Serbia took me on a seven-day trip And I just went through all of israel. It was amazing. It was fully covered by them I had the private driver with the wi-fi in the car. We went to tel Aviv hypha jerusalem After that there came other countries. I went to germany After that I won austrian airlines global blogger challenge So that was all like spontaneously. I just had the desire in my heart to travel I wanted to see if it's really like that that you can't travel for free. So I found the way I also followed all the pages of all the airlines and all the embassies On facebook and whenever they announced something like you should write something film something and the award is to travel I would participate and the funny story. It was wow island challenge. I also went to island like that for free So they were offering the free trip to island and all you had to do was to make your island experience and share it with your audience And one man actually won the challenge but they They got another award for me because I was the person who shared it and whose link was shared most And most people in the world applied because I shared to all my friends to all my connections to all my followers And they awarded that so that still brings me chills because it's a proof that there are people who see you know What you do behind the scenes and that you really want everyone to win and we all have equal opportunity And that if I share it With others it doesn't make me have less of it because if it's meant for me It will not pass me And if it's meant for someone else and I bring that joy to someone else Then it's just good karma for me, you know So that was about the travels. Yeah, that was like for three years and after the three years I started feeling Kind of like I was a slave to it So I was not enjoying it anymore And that is why we need to test if our dreams are legit Or not because it sounds better than it is for most of the things in life when you try it you see Oh, now I see it really like 50 50 like everything else. It's not perfection as I envisioned maybe Oh free trips who doesn't want that? Yeah, but who wants to be a slave when they travel who wants to wake up After 20 hour flight and six in the morning until 12 p.m Work and eat food and the photograph but by force not by enjoying, you know So everything there's in tonight mere basically is what I'm trying to say Nothing is fit. Nothing is perfect. Just perfect. They're always second side of the coin That's right. That's right. What you just said, I mean I want to unpack some of this because First of all you sent emails to over a hundred hotels To get one yes And this this kind of these kinds of numbers we don't realize that's really what's happening For those people who are able to do a lot of great things You know, sometimes we send emails to Five potential 10 potential promotional partners, for example, and we don't get any response and we think oh gosh It failed. It didn't work, you know, uh, or I I ran a facebook ad for 30 dollars and I didn't get any clients. So therefore it doesn't work people I find this to be so true people to try things with such little Um, sincerity almost they just dip their toes and they're like they dip their toes. No, it doesn't doesn't work But you really try things Yeah For the hotels you send 110 you got one and I've heard the same kinds of numbers From other people whether it's traveling or whether it's getting people to promote you It's it's that kind of ratio and it's like everybody watching this Everybody listening being willing if you're wanting to say, you know, yes, I want people to promote my business You've got to be willing to send those emails at this kind of ratio And then once you get one just like you said once you got one Then the then then it gets easier then the field opens the field Yeah, because now you have more more case studies more examples to share with people And if you have like 20 then the Israeli embassy noticed me on facebook, you know, it's not like some connection People always say here in my country. Oh, you got to have connections. I'm like, oh, I wish I had 10 connections because I had 10 Embassy paid and travel organization paid trips. So if I was really that well connected, I wish So it's not connections. It's just hard work persistence And it always pays off And by the way, of course with hard work and persistence you make connections and now now you have some connections that But now I don't use it to travel Yeah, right, but you weren't born with them. That's that's the key. No, no, no, no One of the things you also you said was about the the Iceland challenge that that you were You know instead of keeping the opportunity to yourself as a secret Right, which a lot of a lot of people understandably. It's a competition. So you want fewer competitors But instead you said, you know what? This sounds like a great opportunity. You shared it with everybody and This doesn't always happen but sometimes it does and No matter what you say good karma, you're bringing joy. You bring opportunity to so many people But as an example, this came back to you and said they said, wow, we noticed this And we want to thank you and it happens more often than you think but but you do it without thinking about Oh, what's in it from? Yeah, it was not a strategy like come like who could have known that like there was no way in hell That I would know that yeah So yeah, that's how travel turned out to be really not what I once expected it to be and that is fine We should realize our dreams and see that they're not our dreams anymore It is okay because the process and the progress and what we learn that is why we were in it It's not about the results the result came and it wasn't what I was expected or maybe I changed It's okay to not be happy with your result And you've also had experiences. I mean in the process of creating Your ideal work, okay your ideal business your ideal You also had the process of founding a couple of mobile apps Yeah, you you got some seed investment You went and you worked to buy very hard 24 hours a day or something For to try to create this these mobile apps. So tell us about what you learned from that experience and So I came into that world because I was told I don't belong there So when people already kill me or laugh at me and tell me I can't do something Just like my family said you can't travel for free. I'm like, okay, maybe but maybe I can So I decided to try so I prepared my pitch for that competition challenge in Serbia And actually it was only programmers I was the only lady who was pitching and I came out there and I pitched and I won $30,000 seed investment And I was like, wow. Well, this is a sign. You can actually do something You know, if you have a good idea if you have somebody That you will call for help when it comes to development You don't need to have you don't have to know the whole process You just really important because you're not a programmer No, I don't know how to program do design or anything and I've been vlogging since like forever But you are a connector. I mean you are somebody who has ideas and then you say, hey, let's do this together and you're able to kind of And I always bring people with me, you know, whenever I traveled or got a job in another country I brought at least five Serbian people to work with me because I like to spread the knowledge and like help other people Bring them up with me, you know, that's I think my superpower definitely And yeah about that. So we went there to Dubai. I was almost like the only lady there It was mostly guys It was very hard because as it turned out that was not my dream job either So I had this collection of failures for 10 years Like basically as I like to say failing my way into success Because I was just looking at the lights and I was like, oh, this sounds flashy and nice. Let me try it out So I tried to travel blogging. I even I worked as a cabin crew. I tried mobile apps I failed I failed I failed Not necessarily when I say failed, it means it didn't bring me the result that I was happy with in my heart So I was like, okay, if it's not this, let's see what's next. What sparks me. What brings me joy next And I was just following that spark and it was like, no, no, no, no and after 10 years I found the click So it's not realistic to expect that for the first thing that we see and we actually will be the one It's like dating. I don't need it to work 10 times. I only needed to work once and I will be in a happy partnership So we need much less than we think this is really and Because of your willingness to try all these different things You've had 10 years of really rich experiences and you're you're not even 30 yet Now just to give you some perspective. I didn't even start my business until I was like 32 Okay, so so, you know, now I'm 43 and of course I've learned so much since then But it's like you're you're you still have so much time. But of course Yeah, well, no, but even even for those Those who are watching who are in their 60s, for example, or even 70s like these days with medical technology People are gonna live, you know without 100 my grandma just turned 90 in january Wow, congratulations. I mean, you know, people always see the end result and they think of like, oh, it must be easy But when I'm doing this in english, this is my first interview I'm nobody nobody knows about me in the u.s. And I'm telling you in this interview I'm I will be making millions in the u.s. And I will be talking about how I did that right now. I'm making zero Yeah, yeah, and I know that because I know that I'm ready to fail until it works If it takes me 20 years, it's fine. Maybe I'm just slow If it takes me 30 years, okay, I'll get there in 30 years. Am I in a rush? No Yeah, where am I running to you know every day? I mean and and people can see your You're very active on instagram stories, for example And people can see your activities on the day to day basis every day. You are learning You are growing you are you're because and that's to me That's really what life is about life is not about achieving some kind of success You know some kind of numbers or some kind of fame life is about the growth that happens every day And that is what I really enjoy. Yeah. Yeah, you because I know when I reach the end goal I will say ma next And I like I know this I've done it like for the past 30 years. I know this So let's see what can I do that will bring me joy daily because we know the end result is never as we imagined Yeah, the end result is just a milestone on this ever-growing journey So one of the ways of course you learn through experiences, but also you learn a lot through Reading and watching videos and listening to podcasts. I mean you are You read many books a year from what I can tell I read a book a day almost every day like five books per week. That's a must for me. Yeah, since I was a child It was my escape. It was my passion and my parents forced me to go outside and play I'm like, no, it's so much more fun in this book. You know, it's that's amazing It's it's very different because I've actually always had trouble reading A lot of people wouldn't Couldn't believe but yes, I have a trouble reading. I don't have as much trouble. I used to have trouble talking to now I don't but reading is still a bit of a challenge. But so tell us about I mean, there's so many books you've read What's a book that you are reading right now that you are really enjoying or recently Recently atomic habits. Yes. Okay. I love that book James clear is amazing And he is a living proof of somebody who did the work and who sent those newsletters And who put the effort and then the book came out and now it seems like an overnight success Which is not the book is amazing. This is the second time. I'm reading it. So it's really good I always do the highlights. I make notes so I can send it to people And it's a really good book because it's just a constant reminder That we need to enjoy the process to getting somewhere and that we need to actually tie our identity around our goals So if for example, I want to lose weight And I am at a party and everyone is like take a cake. Take a cake. I will not say no, I can't take a cake I'm on a diet. I will say I'm not eating cake. It's fine Because then people won't push you and then when you tie it to your identity, you don't feel like You're in lack like, oh, I can't eat this cake. I'm so sad. No, you're like, I'm not a cake eater Yeah, it's like I'm not a smoker. It's not like I won't have a cigarette right now Right, right, right. So that's one of the points from the book But uh, definitely it's a good book but my all-time favorite book is victor frankl Um, I don't know how in english search for meaning in Serbia. They translated it as why didn't you kill yourself? Which is a bit morbid. I know Interesting the title is very catchy in Serbian and so I found this book when I was very depressive mood A few years ago. Yeah, and it really really helped me a lot And especially after visiting israel and learning about their culture more in depth It's just mind-blowing like I love that book. Yeah, tell what what what did you get out of the book? What what really helped you to You know get out of the the dark place you were in He's the way he Wrote about the experience when they were there and how I remember this sentence where he says the best of us didn't make it The best people And that is like you have this one opportunity in life And maybe if you're the best in the world, you won't get to get to tomorrow So you better use today wisely And that is the message that really resonated with me and also that you cannot Break a human soul. You can beat someone to death. You can Do anything to the human body, but you will never reach to the sacred space That is inside and since I'm religious That's really resonated with me that you cannot break a human spirit No matter what you do and that we are all always safe and protected No matter when it seems that life is pushing us in the corner. It is happening for us not to us So that whole idea This book would not be here now if he didn't go through that experience And this book definitely changed millions of lives and the way he does his therapy now in Austria and also there are therapists that are trained in his Um way of therapy here in Serbia. I think that If we say was it worth it, I would not wish upon anyone to go with victor went through But the result from that is changing millions of people. So just puts things into perspective It's amazing book and it's like like this. Like I think you can read it in two hours. Yeah, it's very it's very Wow, thank you for sharing that um, I want to Talk a little bit about this sort of inner spirit the human spirit because one of the things you said earlier was that When someone says you can't do something You actually kind of rebel against that limitation To to prove them wrong. Now, that's not that that's not usual for a lot of people because um What those of us who grew up saying, oh, you can't do this. You can't do this a lot of us believe that We believe in those limitations What is that something you you think maybe you were just born with this rebellious nature towards those limitations or is there something that you think You know, we can develop To to have that kind of I guess strength or that kind of courage to say well, you know what I think I can break through I'm a big questioner since I was a child and that was really a problem for my family and parents and I was very like um, I don't know where but I was hard to be managed Even today Because I don't take things as they are like when somebody tell me this should be done like this. I say, okay Which can you tell me more like explain why that's the reason I always want I always knew that I will start my own business even as a kid My dad was an entrepreneur and my mom was a professor. She still is in one school And that is something that I was like born with I guess because I always questioned everything And even I question myself daily. I question my choices. I'm not afraid to say that I was wrong Uh, I say it publicly. I'm really I have no shame around it because I think it's healthy It's a human thing We all make mistakes and we should be transparent about it And also what might be a mistake for me may not be a mistake for you. So I don't feel that like my identity is tied to my choices or my results I feel that As a human I'm here. I'm worthy. So like yourself like anyone else not I'm not my bank account I'm not my passport I'm not my skin color. So I don't really get Things so personally like when somebody you can't do something I know that they're speaking Hopefully from the best intentions because they couldn't do it And that also motivates me to show them that as a child or as a Granddaughter or as a girlfriend That I see things differently and to maybe show them that it can be done Since they're still on earth There is maybe possibility for them to do something else and question themselves about what they thought About their own life that can't be done and it's possible actually So I feel that some this is something innate in me that I'm No, I don't know if I'm a rebel because I don't rebel if I don't if I if something resonates with me and if it feels logical I say, okay, no problem But if it doesn't feel right in my heart I have to question it because the last thing I would do is betray myself and that's a non negotiable since I was a Kid and I remember at family reunions when someone comes They want to hug you and pet you basically and I would always say no, no I don't like this And people will say don't be so mean, you know, they just want to hug you That's a Serbian thing like everyone's here. We're very like a huggy But I like my boundaries And since I was a child I'm very passionate and very protective of my boundaries because they both physical and energetical and mental And that makes me be myself like I don't let people into my space If they don't deserve I think you've just uh touched on one of the secrets to success Something that I've noticed as people grow and become particularly successful in their business Is the issue of boundaries is so incredibly important boundaries with Clients with audience members, you know fans with family Family for sure to be able to allow us to to to have the time and space to work With our you know business partners, etc. But with our you know team members employees so What you just said, you know Say more about what you think about boundaries and and how do you given that you've already reached some level of business success? You've gotten you know over a thousand Women who have participated in your various programs Um, the you must get a lot of you know emails You're you're you're well. I get a lot of requests Yeah, I get a lot of requests for money for time for everything just like everyone else. Yes, and um This was very clear because I did my workshops in person So every woman from those 1500 I've met I shook her hand. I talked to her directly I know exactly what she's doing right now in her work And I'm very close to them I have a closed facebook group for the women that went through my workshops 550 are there so half of them are interested in staying in community communicating daily And I have very clear boundaries on the workshop. I tell them So every day I take two hours of my time and I do customer support. I answer two emails I never delegate that and I probably never will unless I really have to So this is what I do and if I didn't answer today They know that I had other priority emails and they will wait until tomorrow. It's never more than two days Also in the facebook group. I go in the evening I cannot let my day be managed by other people on my phone. I never have any notifications I never have any sound. I haven't heard an alarm or a sound for I don't know since elementary school So my family knows that when I'm busy I will not answer And when I see and when I can talk I will answer People never upset me in that way because I understand that something is urgent to them But that doesn't make it my priority I'm very focused when I wake up every day. I don't turn it on immediately. I check in with myself What do I need to do today? Okay, let's chill. Let's meditate. Let's make some tea Let's read something and then journal and then we can see what other people have on their agenda That is somehow related to me and let's see who I should answer now Who is okay for tonight and who I will answer tomorrow I know there is nothing urgent because I've been in a life that situations myself my mom Had three stage cancer in two times. So we've been through a lot as a family So I know what urgent means and business ain't urgent on my agenda ever. So By that, I don't mean that I'm not responsible as I said previously Even when I was in the hospital in 2017 having my right over in tumor removed I was answering emails because I felt okay. I don't know how but I was I felt okay. So when I had time I would just sit on my bed and answer So I don't take it not responsibly I just do it when I want to do it because I don't want to do something and not feel like doing it Then I'm not an entrepreneur that I'm just the corp like the corporate person You know what I mean? Like I came into entrepreneurship because I want to make decisions for my time for my money and for my energy management And if somebody has a problem with that, it's fine Like they will not work with me because by now I think that they feel my boundaries even by reading my copy Maybe it's all crazy. But you know what I mean? Like they see They nobody ever asked me for my telephone number or should we go to coffee? Because it's just they they see how I live. They're like, no Wow, they know they can ask every day if they need the business advice and they will get it And it's just like yeah, yeah, and where where do you you're on different social media platforms now? Of course, you've been for a while. Yeah, which Tell us about your relationship to them. Like where do you like to interact most? I only interact on email and now when I started my podcasts Every friday I have youtube comments But I think I will disable those because I want to redirect everyone to my email I don't want to waste time on people who want to say bravo good job or to advertise themselves or to say You suck because that's not a useful information for me and my brain doesn't have time to manage all the crap So I feel that if somebody has something to say which is meaningless It can be a critique which I'm open to I'm not perfect I make mistakes every day just like everyone else or it can be like a feedback or like Anything they can reach out via email with their name and surname because if I'm putting myself vulnerable online, I don't want somebody Hiding, you know behind the avatar and telling me that I'm doing it wrong Okay, you can tell me that but tell me with your name and surname Don't we're not in high school, you know, so I feel that is also boundaries with social media Yeah, people expect that they can reach out anywhere and it's fine expectations are great But I'm not here to answer to anyone's expectations of my for myself Not even my boyfriend my family and not from a stranger from the internet So I'm okay with that if you're like being just honest and real and transparent Just say like At the end of the video guys, I want to hear your opinion. Shoot me an email. That is the way I like to communicate Why would anyone normal have a problem with that only a troll can have a problem with that because they cannot spam you You know what I mean like I feel that it's all about being honest and transparent and people who are right In the head they will understand and the people who are just mean and want to hurt you. They can be upset I don't have a problem with that The key here to me is that you are clear about how you most thrive in communication and interaction And you don't mind Losing yeah losing disappointing other people who don't want to interact in the way that you thrive Absolutely, you work and that's that's a lesson for all of us. That's freedom Yeah, because it's different for everybody. Some people don't want to do email Some people want to do something else some people want like social media some people like facebook message Some people like, you know, um instagram direct message whatever it may be. It's like you find your way So, um, I want to I want to talk a little bit more about how you work with your Your students your clients You had so much experience now you've worked with over a thousand people in revamping their businesses Um or helping them start so, um I guess there's a big question, but we can go into this in more detail But let's start with this. Have you noticed any patterns? among Among people as you work with them to start or revamp their business. Is there? My clients are mostly women 35 to 60 And especially in these countries now I work with the global market as well I didn't for the first 10 years I just wanted to go in depth In this region because you can't be everywhere everywhere and everything to everyone And so what I've discovered is there like five problems that everyone is Every woman was facing One was that she was not good enough, which we all have as humans. I think it's like a thing And then another one was that she's not perfect. She's not ready She wants to start when she's ready and I filmed just before our talk I filmed a new episode on the podcast Why starting when you are ready is mistake because it is And nobody's ready. I'm never ready. And then another Third one was that they want to feel like And you address that so well on your youtube like I mostly don't feel like doing anything I just want to chill in my bed and put my legs on the wall, you know And watch the white Background but yeah, that's a third thing then the fourth thing is they say they hate marketing and they hate selling because they're thinking of the negative examples And then the fifth one is there the fear of rejection Because they are very aware that with success Comes every new level comes a new devil and they're not ready to face the devils So those are the typical ones of course every woman Depending on the age and the generation had her own issues Like some of them were afraid of the social media, which I fully understand. Sometimes I'm afraid of it and I'm 30, you know So the ladies that were like 65 years old They this is their first time opening an agency in Serbia starting their business I'm so proud of them because They feel so uncomfortable and for a reason that they don't they don't know the world as it is today And they have so much value to share And I'm very passionate about the generation over 60 Just because they don't have Tools like in they didn't have tools like internet. They're not, you know Social media savvy they have so much wisdom to share That I'm so sad that that wisdom Just goes somewhere without others having access to it because this woman cannot use the social media and doesn't understand Plain and simple how to make a proper or how to outsource. Obviously. They mostly outsource a proper website I organized the photo shoots for them because they need support. They need community. Nobody is doing that in 65 in Serbia Here in this country after 40, you're like done. So, you know for them to be so brave They have a lot of judgment from their families. They're like, why what are you acting? What are you playing to be, you know, who are you to do this? And somehow the community I've built around this idea Is what helps them because they know now they know they have other partners in crime other women that are 50 60 Who are starting their businesses and that life doesn't finish after your 40 Yeah, so that is that is the the typical ones is amazing. Um, there's a lot You could do a podcast episode or five on every single one of these But I want to ask about a couple of these here um The the the not good enough is a really and it's connected to who are you to do this? Okay Yeah, well It's true. It's like one of the things when we encounter social media is look, there are already so many other people Who are doing the kind of thing I want to do and they seem to be so polished and doing it so well Why should I even? Do it or yeah, like why should I bother and Is anyone gonna watch or listen to me? What do you what do you say to that? What's what's your encouragement or your advice to them? There is this song. There is this quote don't die with your song still in you. So that's the only thing When you're on your deathbed, you won't be thinking about all the other youtubers You will be wishing you had your own youtube channel and said something that the future generation can listen to and the My reason for doing this is the legacy that I'm going to leave for the next generation to listen to me And maybe they will laugh at me. Maybe they will say, oh, this was smart. This was stupid Doesn't really matter It's just the point is to give something that you consider worthy It doesn't have to be worthy to everyone. It will never be it can be stupid to some But if you have the drive and the desire to create something You should not just put it in the corner to wait for better days or To wait for everyone else to disappear so you can have an open stage because that would be or That would be an excuse that you would say, oh, but nobody is doing it You know, you can never please the people that have excuses Because they say, oh, everyone is doing it. Who am I, you know, and then you have the opposite Nobody is doing it. How can I now create a market? Well, let me tell you it doesn't matter If nobody's doing it if everybody's doing it there is place for everyone And you know, I'm selling basically marketing and sales Doing it your way like who everyone is selling marketing and sales And then people pick me because of my content and my personal brand They don't want to work with someone else And if I was thinking, oh, but mario forla does it. Amy portifil does it Yes, so what? Yeah, like okay and and I mean I never had that fear of I don't believe in competition And I don't believe in like Somebody's going to steal your content and they say that to me all the time here in Serbia Like oh, what if I post something and then somebody steals it Nothing what like this is internet everything has already been said and done get over yourself. You're not special snowflake It's not about like Being so revolutionary, you know your video which was about You don't have to feel right to do good Resonate it with me and put me back into my groove to start my Global expansion basically That advice has been spoken by From Seneca, you know Yeah, so, you know, and I read Seneca. So why didn't it resonate with me then? Why did it resonate when I heard you talk about it for a reason? We don't know. I don't know. You don't know So why would you not show up from some stupid excuse? and prevent That message By law of universe by god sending it to a person that needs it in that moment I needed to hear that video of yours in that moment. I never click on all that she sends I click on two things. She sends like bunch of 20 links. I clicked on yours So I believe in this you need to put the energy out there and also When I don't do that, I feel very Stuck and like the opposite of abundance When I don't give Yeah, now you have been able to create And a really good income Uh, especially compared to the people in your your region the people in our industry Um, you have like workshops in the digital course ebooks journals So seminars Yeah, and of course you're active on social media And and still you have time to be active. You work out. You kind of keep yourself healthy Of course, we talked about boundaries being so important But because of all these activities, um You know, let's talk about this, right? You you you mentioned in our um one of your podcast interviews like you You know as a kid you learned I think it was from your grandfather to to you know, when even when you don't feel like doing something Uh, you don't have to feel like it that you just you just do it Yeah, like it was from my dad But he learned it from my grandfather that sadly passed a month before I was born But all the messages are still here. I see I feel them He was a military pilot and uh, they were very disciplined around everything So when I was a kid my dad would say, okay, clean this or you know, do this in your room Do the homework or anything? And sometimes I would say, uh, I don't feel like it and just to you know to protest and he would say Well, it's okay. Don't worry. You don't have to feel like it. You just have to do it And he would laugh and I would be so upset because first he was joking So you can't actually argue with someone who is laughing That's a problem and you're still upset as a kid because you didn't win And then I would clean it, you know, and I would be thinking what should I tell him next time this didn't work And that was actually a good lesson because I'm very persistent Persistent. So I was repeating that same excuse. I feel like it and he's like every time he'll be like, it's fine You don't have to feel like it. You just have to do it And I just remember that and every time in life when I don't feel like doing something I know it is good for me That is the belief that I've created and as a kid the belief was Dad will be happy mom will be happy the trash will be out the I don't know I will wash the dishes. This was not every day. This was just like once a week or something, you know But I would remember those that what I do when I don't feel like it brings good results and makes me Satisfied and proud and makes those that I love happy So Yeah, that was also a part of it is not becoming a people pleaser. You know what I mean because that's a that's a little Next like it can be a problem if you're all the time pleasing others, but I don't I don't have that situation But yeah, that was what made me happy as a child and that is what I implement now I always every year I try to embark new challenge two years ago I started the bodybuilding challenge because my body was very weak I had an accident in the gym. I broke my sacrum and hurt a three vertebra And I couldn't move properly for a long time. I couldn't sit. I couldn't block for one hour and It was horrible. I couldn't sleep from the pain for one year And then after that I was doing physical terrible rehabilitation everything And I decided I want to go back to the gym and pay a trainer and do bodybuilding to build some muscle And one year I was going five times a week and it's amazing amazing the result that I've made and after the one first year That was 2018 and then I said not last year It was a November and I said now I need something new I don't find this challenge anymore. I feel good in my body. I feel strong And then I rolled the kata yoga teacher training Because my whole motivation in life is to do what feels uncomfortable because then I'm on the right path Like I don't have to feel like it's in order to do it Which is very lucky for us humans because most of the times we are slops and we don't feel like doing anything Like if I could just eat mac nuggets the whole day and just lie in bed I think that would be a dream But the good part is that you don't have to feel like anything and you can do everything like how amazing is that I think that's like a blessing is Well, I mean the way you say it I think a lot of us don't realize that a lot of us think Especially for it says interesting because especially for those of us who are more spiritual We somehow have this not all of us, but I know sometimes I have this idea that well Maybe if I don't feel like it somehow my intuition and my spirit says I shouldn't be doing it But it's like okay. What what part of that is an excuse That's actually my mind playing But you're right if I could just sit on the couch watch netflix eat popcorn That's what I'm great. That's wonderful. But I show up here. I blog I make videos I create courses just like you do And our life is so much more meaningful and rich because of it So one of the things that when we start to put ourselves out there right and you you said this This is one of the the key reasons that people don't do it They fear rejection. They fear Shaming blaming criticism physical danger Yeah, yeah, especially for women right like like but but it's also connected this this criticism I think is connected a lot with the with the inner critic Maybe they like we might even get 10 positive comments And then we get one comment from somebody who is anonymous who says We're ugly or who says That that was that was foolish or whatever it may be How do we Yeah, how how do we deal with that? How do we think about well, but the fact is we are going to get some rejection And yeah, you get it the moment you shop Yeah, go ahead You get it the moment you show up and I showed up when I was 21 and very insecure About everything as every other girl that is 21, but I feel that it's a muscle and it grows with use It's like in the gym You come with the muscle that is atrophied in the gym You come with your muscle that is atrophied with criticism. You don't have a thick skin You don't have a short memory and then the more you are in this business the more stones people throw at you So I was very severely harassed for the past years. I had been physically like followed online attacks bullying Stolen identity try money extortion. So I've seen it. I've seen it all in the past two years Thanks, god. I'm not no longer living full-time in Serbia. So I don't have that kind of trouble anymore So I was very I was suffering with that. I went to psychologist every week I was in fear honestly my boyfriend was following me around because I at one point when it was severe I couldn't like I didn't feel comfortable to go To walk alone in the dark or something like that. No, I'm good. But that was for a whole year So this I think is a it's a process I don't think that I would be able to Scale to bring my business and personality to the next level If I didn't go through that and there are a lot of women and people Generally, who would maybe give up and if they did give up if I give up gave up I would not judge me and I wrote in my journals last year a lot about what his been happening to me And I said to myself it's okay if you give up after this you this is not the only way you can make a living You're very capable You can make money from anything and you're very persistent and hard-working if this is not If you have pros and you have cons and if the cons are so strong It doesn't have to be hundred it can be one that is a deal breaker for you It's like in a relationship if it's a deal breaker for you If you're a vegan and the guy it meets and that's a deal breaker then it's a deal breaker It doesn't matter like the other 90. So I put this in my journal I said Yovana if you decide to quit after this after being followed stock Perrest bullied stolen identity and all of that You should you should maybe you should you know, and I thought I will I will I thought I was done with You know, I was done with this And this is coming from somebody who makes over 60 thousand dollars the year in a country Net profit in a country where the salary is 350 a month as a professor my mom So I think that's okay. I think nobody talks about it, but I was on the verge I was like thinking maybe this was not for me because I'm very as everyone else. I mean I'm sensitive. I'm Not because I'm a woman because I'm a human, you know And you get scared especially things repeat themselves like You know in a month a few times you get paranoid. It's a human thing. You get thought loops. It's a human thing But you have books you have psychologists You have coaches and you have people who've been through this shit before you So you can give up and it's okay to give up. I don't think that oh, we should shame people that give up after that No, they're just taking care of yourself and taking care of yourself is always the best thing and the first Thing that you should be thinking about not about likes not about money not about what will people say I don't care what will people say people never say what I want them to say So that's like why bother and the only question was am I feeling them? Drive to do this anymore and then you I found you And that's why I'm here not in life, but Social media and On the internet and that's why I invested like $5,000 in my us website and energy and money and time in my content That's why I started this weekly podcast because I know I'm here to stay Okay, like bad things are gonna happen again And maybe I will give up and that will be okay So I'm not here to impress anyone. I'm here to do this because if I feel this is my mission and my purpose And that I bring joy and I bring knowledge to others and inspiration I will be here and if god or universe wants me out They will force me out They will have to force me out And I thought I was happening last year. I I really was but then somehow I came back And I'm here now. I feel great now. Like, you know, it was a phase I'm I'm glad you're here. Um your audience is glad you're here So I'd love for For people to know How Of course, we're gonna have the links for where to find you on social media your website, etc But um, what kind of person would you love to work with as a client? You know, how how can people work with you? Basically my deal the client is a woman that is 30 to 60 years old that Maybe she's living the corporate world and she just needs that help with marketing and sales in her own way Not somebody that will make somebody do something I will tell them what needs to be done And then we will find how we can do it so that their soul is happy because I hate Doing things because they have to be done. I want to work with people that question me because I'm a questioner So if they say but why do I need to do a facebook ad? I will say no, you don't need to hear 10 other options And if they say no, no, no, I'll say okay. What about this? What about this? And if we go through everything and they say I still don't want to do this, then I will tell them, okay What's the least? Thing that you feel least resentful to let's or let's see why do you hate something because I do that to myself as well I don't like instagram and now I made a challenge two days ago to post for 100 days And let's see if I like it because if I have such a resistance towards something There is something there. So let me learn about myself by doing what I feel like I hate doing So I will try to always with my clients see why is the resistance there because it's both like business coaching and consulting with me It's not a program in english. I don't have a film course. It's all customized to you So you send me an email. I tell you if I can help you and trust me I'm honest because 90 of the people I reject in Serbia because I see they're not for me And that's just the way I do business as I said, I'm very religious person I believe that in my integrity if I can sleep at night Know that I did the right thing. That's the only thing that is important because I know that money will come I'm good with money. I love money and money loves me But I don't want to sell something to someone that will not help him or her because they will not be satisfied They will not recommend me and that's not how I build this business And that's not how we'll build my next one. So basically anyone who needs help with marketing and sales and feels stuck And another thing that I can offer since I have this huge network of 1500 women that've been through my courses in like Eight or more countries now at this moment I can bring them the community that they need and I can also bring them all the people that can help with design development facebook ads that are much cheaper because I'm originally from Serbia So those are the things that I offer. It's nothing that is special that you can't find anywhere else But the reason why somebody will pick to to work with me is because they Why with my energy and that's the only reason because the knowledge I have is just accumulation of Tons of books I've read and tons of courses and it can be found even on google like everything else But for somebody to give you that knowledge in one hour that I have accumulated for like 15 or more years I think that's worth every penny because that's how I learn personally. So You're absolutely right. People who resonate with your story, your experiences Your personality, your values will will love to work with you. So that's very important. That's how I find my teachers If we don't have the same values, I don't care that they're an expert in their field. They just don't click with me Yeah, yeah, yeah Well, Ivana, thank you so much for sharing your story it's it's been an amazing journey that you've had and You've been able to to share a lot in this interview. I mean a lot of lessons a lot of Sort of like little stories that we can keep in mind to help us move forward. So thank you so much And I'm just I'm looking forward to sharing this with my audience Thank you for having me and if anyone needs any help, just send me an email and yeah, let's make sure your email is Can you say your email for everybody? Yeah, it's j o v a n a dot m i l j a n o v i c at gmail.com Yeah, we can link it. Yeah, we can put it below. Yeah. Yeah, cool. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Ivana