 Coming up on DTNS, everything you need to know about the Oracle versus Google Supreme Court case, why TikTok is now more popular than Instagram, and Kerry Smith helps us understand visual effects. Who are all those names at the end of the movies? This is the Daily Tech News for Wednesday, October 7th, 2020. In Los Angeles, I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. Salt Lake City, I'm Scott Johnson. And I'm Roger Chang, and I can't tell what month of the year it is. And I'm here. Good. No one would have known that the month was written wrong if you hadn't said anything. Kerry Smith, beauty supervisor at GhostVFX is with us today. Kerry, welcome. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. We're going to talk to Kerry all about visual effects and the technology behind it and how it's carried out. Lots of good questions. We were just wasting our time talking to Kerry about hot pockets and food on Good Day Internet. If you'd like to get that interview, become a member of patreon.com. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Slack announced Connect EMs to let you collaborate with users outside of a company by sending an invite. Sounds a little bit like email, doesn't it? A concept called verified organizations helps prevent phishing attacks and other problems. Slack admins will also get a managed connections feature to control which individuals can connect from the outside. Slack is also introducing a video snippet feature called Stories for status updates or agenda items and instant audio for a push-to-talk feature for impromptu conversations. Streamlabs reports people watched more than 7.46 billion hours of content across all live streaming platforms, slightly down from 7.71 billion hours in Q2. However, year over year, the live streaming industry as a whole grew by 91.8%. Compared to 3.89 billion hours watched in Q3 2019. YouTube Gaming saw the most hours watched growth up 156 million hours from Q2 to Q3. Facebook Gaming saw more than a billion hours watched for the first time. But the throne goes to Twitch, now representing 91.1% of market share for hours streamed. And that's a big jump, up 14.5% from last quarter. Microsoft's mixer shutting down probably helped boost some of Twitch's numbers. That could have been a contender. A grand jury in Tyler County, Texas, indicted Netflix for promotion of the French film Cuties, you may have heard of it, about an 11-year-old girl who defies her parents' traditions to join a dance crew. Netflix is charged with lewd exhibition of children younger than 18 and will go to trial. Netflix says this film is a social commentary against the sexualization of younger children. I've seen the movie. I'm confused by this, but we'll see how it goes. Also in French news, France introduced a law to protect social media work by children younger than 16 years old. The law regulates how many hours the children can work and how earnings are handled, plus bolster the rights to be forgotten by requiring platforms to take down content at a child's request. The law, which passed unanimously, is similar to existing French laws for child actors and models. South China Morning Post reports that most analytics show Google's Chrome is the most popular browser in mainland China, despite the fact that most of Google's services are blocked in the country. Baidu Analytics shows Chrome has 36 to 39 percent of the browser market this year, beating its closest rivals, Internet Explorer and QQ browser, by more than 28 percentage points. China's national computer emergency response body has its own numbers. They show Chrome with 30 percent of the browser market in Q3. Wow, that is crazy to me. A hearing on TikTok's lawsuit against the U.S. Executive Order banning transactions with TikTok has been scheduled for November 4th of this year. That's the day, by the way, right after the U.S. election. A preliminary injunction has stopped an earlier executive order blocking TikTok from U.S. app stores. The trial for Epic and Apple over Fortnite has been set to begin May 3rd, 2021. Put it on your calendars, everybody. It'll be a bench trial, meaning there will be no jury. U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez-Rodgers will make the decision. Now, we could go right into another court case that's happening today, but let's take a break and move over to Congress instead, Sarah. Oh, let's. The U.S. House Judiciary Subcommittee released its report on the competitive practices of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Alphabet. The report says that all four companies have monopoly power and suggest that changes to antitrust law could result in some businesses being separated. Talked about that quite a bit might actually be happening. The report recommends prohibiting dominant platforms from entering adjacent lines of business and shifting the burden of proof to companies to show acquisitions would not be anti-competitive. Also recommends preventing platforms for preferring their own services requiring interoperability and data portability, eliminating forced arbitration clauses to allow for more class action lawsuits, and otherwise strengthening of the FTC and Department of Justice. So the problems found with each company probably not too surprising. Facebook has monopoly power in online advertising and social networking, says the commission. It's alleged that Facebook bought a fast-growing Instagram back in the day in order to eliminate a competitor. Amazon has said to have monopoly power over its sellers and its suppliers using its position to out-compete third parties on its own platform, also acquiring competitors like diapers.com and Zappos. Apple reportedly has monopoly power in software distribution on iOS. Apple discriminates against rivals and prefers its own offerings, exploiting developers by appropriating competitively sensitive information and charging high prices within the app store. Google monopoly power over search and search advertising, accused of siphoning off traffic from the rest of the web while entities seek to reach users must pay Google steadily, increasing sums for ads. It also reportedly abuses its power by requiring Google apps to be given default status on Android. All right, so the timing of this report, which was 16 months in the making and more than 400 pages, is definitely because of the election. Everybody on these committees wants this to be out there so they can campaign on it and say, I'm doing something about big tech. We all hate big tech, right? All right, here's what I'm doing about it. There is a little bit of a differential. There was a Republican response to this saying that in part, and we talked about this on yesterday's show, in part they agree this is mostly a bipartisan sentiment with Republicans generally objecting to the fact that there is a recommendation to break up the companies. Most Republicans don't think breaking them up is the solution. Republicans generally don't like the idea of making it easier to do class action lawsuits, but everything else that's in here is pretty well agreed on. So we are likely to get some kind of legislation out of this. Whether it will be all of the recommendations in here or not, of course remains to be seen. My guess is it won't simply because there's already some disagreement between the parties on what's in here. Also, hearings will happen. They'll adjust expectations. They'll have negotiations with these companies who say, well, what if we voluntarily do this, don't make it a legislation? That's going to happen. So it's going to be a year or two before we see something. But what I do like about this is it's saying, let's not try to just apply old antitrust rules from the 1800s and 1920s. Let's actually try to craft antitrust legislation that will attempt to solve the problems that are caused now by new kinds of business models and new kinds of technology. It's also nice to see some bipartisan actual bipartisanness on the issue because you're more likely to see new rules happen. More legislation actually happen if they're agreeing this early on most points. So that seems good. Yeah. I mean, the whole idea of should some of these companies be split up and you might feel a certain way or another, but even just going through what the issue with Facebook is versus Amazon versus Apple versus Google, there are issues with each company, but they're not the same issues. The company has worked differently. So to say, well, Facebook should be broken up and therefore all the big tech should be. It's just not that simple. Time will tell. Well, here's some other name you've never heard on the show. Tiktok. Let's talk about them. It's now ahead of Instagram. Remember earlier, we said Tiktok's not going to be ruled on till November 4th. Well, less popular. I don't remember that. That's crazy. Well, guess what? Teenagers don't care. Tiktok is now ahead of Instagram as Teenagers second favorite social media app after Snapchat. According to Piper Sandler's Talking Stock with Teens survey, 34% of teens in the report listed Snapchat as their favorite social app, followed by 29% picking Tiktok and 25% picking Instagram. This all is basically the opposite of what I thought it was, which is crazy. Anyway, Instagram still takes first place with usage with 84% engagement followed by Snapchat at 80 and Tiktok at 69 up from 62 earlier this year. So what you're saying is teens are less likely to say they love Instagram, but they're more likely to use it. That's what it feels like. Like my son is a diehard Instagram user, despite me informing him that it was, you know, Facebook makes it and he hates Facebook. But it doesn't seem to matter. It's still his most engaged platform. But we talked about this a little bit in prep. There's a weird kind of not cross pollination, but like this weird sharing between the services. A recent example is a very viral filter that showed up in Snapchat first and actually got my two daughters to download Snapchat to try it. So there's a real drive for filters these days. But anyway, it was so if you used it, it made you look like an anime character. And you could smile, you would smile like an anime character, blink its eyes and everything. And it was pretty freaky how well it worked. Well, what happened immediately was not tons of snaps were sent, although I'm sure there were, but these were showing up everywhere else. So Tiktok just miles of this anime filter. And then same thing on Instagram and Instagram already was a place where people would come and and do will use their videos they made over somewhere else on Tiktok. Or when they found on Tiktok, it's not even theirs to post. So there's this weird aspect of this right now that feels like it's different than before. And that is the video sharing services, the video and photo sharing services seem to be happening between each other. So you may prefer to create it here, but you're still showing it over there. And it's right. I don't know why that feels so weird to me. It just feels weird. Well, and it, you know, it makes studies like this a little bit confusing because you kind of go, OK, Instagram has more engagement, but half the stuff I'm seeing there are Tiktok videos, including things that I'm posting myself. So, you know, it's like, who gets the credit? I am, I continue to be floored. And this is not because I, I want to throw a Snapchat out of the bus. I just simply, all my friends who were using it, and there weren't that many, but you know, it's good, you know, 50 of us, they all just stopped. And so I stopped. And I don't use Snapchat all that much anymore. And it's funny, because I think a lot of us, when we get into our own little bubble of these sorts of things, we're like, yeah, no one uses Snapchat. Not true. Yeah. And the teens were like, oh, thank good. All the old people left. We can save for you Snapchat again. Exactly. It does feel a little bit like that, but it's funny that because I know there are, there are prominent, if you are a prominent voice on any of the platforms we've mentioned, like big influencer types. There, there's no longer this thing like in the vine days, you just planted everything in vine and you said, this is where I'm doing this from. And I arguably it's that's because there wasn't a lot of short term form video happening anywhere else. But that's kind of where you made your tent. And that's where you camped. But now nobody's doing that. If you are a prominent voice on one, you are now making sure that those two others or three others that are maybe less audiences for you, but you're still making sure you're there. And then on top of that, the threat of this app being pulled. They're doing that even more because they're like, well, I don't, if this gets pulled, I want to have, you know, this thing on Instagram so people can go there. Or I want to be able to be on Snapchat because that's not going to go away. Is it? And like, there's a lot of that going on. So I don't know. It's just if we're going to look at social media over the last 10 years is an odd moment, I think. And it's all video weird. Thank goodness, because Carrie and I were talking before the show. It's the only way we see TikTok videos is on Twitter. All right, folks, one last piece from that Piper Sandler thing. The most popular meal amongst teens is Chick-fil-A and Lays. Who knew? Wow. A lawsuit over Google's use of Java in the Android operating system is not the most popular teen story today, but it will be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court Wednesday. Roots of the case are that Sun created Java and then Oracle acquired Sun in 2009. Now, back in 2007, before Sun was acquired by Oracle, Google couldn't reach a deal with Sun to license some key parts of the Java API to be used in Android's core. At the time, public sentiment was that Google was being a little stick in the mud here and Sun was trying to keep standards. But what Google did was created its own code to do so and borrowed some code from an open source version of Java. Fast forward to Oracle buying, and now you have Oracle suing. Now, it's key to understand that Oracle doesn't object to the idea of Google implanting its own API for interfacing with Java. That's not the problem. What Oracle claims is that Google's implementation of the API steals from Oracle's own implementation. It's the arrangement of things that's at issue, not the operation. This is a copyright case. So it's important to understand that copyright law doesn't protect ideas, procedures, processes, systems or methods of operation. And the whole case is going to pivot on whether an API is a method of operation or not. If it is, it's not protected by copyright. Oracle loses. If it's not, then Oracle might win. Now, Google's leaning on a case from the early 1990s called Lotus versus Borland. Remember them? Borland implemented Lotus 123's menu system in Quattro to help users make an easy transition. And Lotus sued saying that it's violating our copyright. It's our trade address, et cetera. Well, the court ruled that the menu system was a method of operation and therefore not a violation. The problem is that case also went to the Supreme Court, also at a time when the Supreme Court only had eight members and ended up four to four. So that decision stood, but it didn't become a binding precedent because there wasn't a majority. So what about APIs? If you're like, wait, I don't understand the API thing. How do you know whether it's a method of operation or not? An application programming interface lets one piece of software work with another. They're not programs. APIs describe what tasks a program will perform, not how it does it. So is an API a method of operation or a creative expression? Well, it depends on who you ask. Protocol talked to an attorney named Kyle Mitchell who compared APIs to tricks of the trade like how to frame a wall in carpentry. Something that you have to learn, but nobody owns. In the original Google versus Oracle case, Judge Alsop compared APIs to a library. He said a package is like a bookshelf. A class is like a book and a method is a chapter. And the judge said the arrangement and the organization of shelves and the arrangement of books on them is like the API and therefore not copyrightable. But Google's chapters, their methods were different from Oracle and therefore didn't violate copyright. Well, the appeals court disagreed. Said, no, the arrangement is copyrightable in this case because Google could have come up with a different shelf organization. So here's what's at stake. If Google wins, status quo remains as it is now. In practice, however, almost all APIs are functionally similar, meaning suddenly if Oracle wins, thousands of APIs could be the subject of copyright lawsuits to clarify the Supreme Court decision. New companies creating new APIs might start to charge licensing to generate some more revenue. And it will likely make it costlier to get new software developed, which would allow for more siloing where the big vendors all agreed across license. But new entrants wouldn't have as an easy time getting into things. If there is a tie because there are only eight jurists right now, the case will likely be reheard later when there are nine justices. That's the opinion. It might stand in which case it'd be like Borland versus Lotus and not be a precedent. So it's messy. We're going to get the hearing today and then we'll have to wait for the Supreme Court to issue its ruling. And once that comes out, we'll tell you what they did. And now you'll have a better idea of knowing what it meant. All right, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines in about five minutes, be sure to subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com. Who doesn't like an exploding spaceship or maybe a de-aged Robert De Niro? Well, movies and TV shows give you those gifts and they rely on visual effects to do it. So we've invited Carrie on to give us a better understanding of what happens behind the scenes with visual effects. Let's start with defining it. What is visual effects, Carrie? So visual effects is basically anything that's done with a computer that wasn't done live or practically. When we say practical, it would be something like throwing a smoke bomb live on set. So visual effects is going to be anything you do optically, digitally with a computer to either create effect like an explosion or to clean something up like remove something from a scene or fix somebody's skin, anything like that. So when you decide to use visual effects, you know, or a practical effect, I would assume money is a big factor. But when is the practical way to go always the best way to go? Well, there are a couple of things that will determine that. A lot of it is budget and some of it can be safety. Like for example, almost every TV show that you watch, if someone's in a car driving, that's on a green screen every time. Because it's just cost prohibitive to be putting people in a car and have them on one of those rigs and dragging them through a city. It's just it's expensive. You have to pay for the actor's safety. So that will definitely anytime safety is involved and it's a small production. A lot of times they'll use visual effects. I was going to ask you a quick question about that because this seems to be a lot of people's minds right now with the Mandalorian. There's this new technique that they seem to be using a lot of, which is that whole projection cave and engine and all of that stuff. Does that play a role here? Because it seems like that would be great for these car scenes so that we don't know. It would be amazing. And the cool thing about ILM is that they have found the Stargate to the money dimension. So you have no idea how many clients come in and they're like, well, we, we just want to do what the Mandalorian did. We're like, cool. Do you have a giant truck full of money? It is ideal because that stuff looks amazing. I mean, that stuff is gorgeous and you look at the breakdowns of how they did all that. And it's just, it's flawless. Like it's such a great way to do it. But we have people going, well, I've got 150 bucks. What can you do for me? And we'll be like, okay, try not to kick the camera too many times. We'll do our best. But yes, if you have infinite monies, then yes, those are the ideal ways to do it. But most of the time we have people who are, you know, working with a very limited, you know, even some of the bigger TV shows, they have to make their dollars stretch. So is it going to be quite as spectacular as that? I think another misconception people might have is that a visual effects artist does it all, right? There are different roles to visual effects artists. Can you explain some of those? Yeah. So in a very general sense, it breaks down into 2D and 3D. So 3D would be the people who are creating models, who are doing digital sculpting, who are animating fake people, like Pixar type stuff, or who are creating objects or vehicles. So that's the 3D side. The 2D side will be doing the integration of all of that stuff, making the stuff actually look for photoreal. Also doing a lot of the janitorial work, like cleaning up cables, painting people out of scenes, doing skin fixes. But there is like an overlap in the Venn diagram where sometimes people, the 3D side is a little bit more expensive. So sometimes people don't want to pay for it. So there are 2D ways to fake a 3D effect. So yeah, that's where it meets, but that's the division. Which role are you? I'm on the 2D side. Ah, okay. Yeah. Is there a personality difference there? I'm going to take a fifth on that. I will say a lot of the real fine artists, like people who actually have a background in painting or sculpture or stuff like that, will be on the 3D side. People who can actually draw. Whereas people on the 2D side frequently also have those skills, but not as crazy, talented, but we're kind of more of your software developer type people. Like we're finding a software logic solution for an engineering solution for the problem. Well, and speaking of software, what are some of the software programs that you're using most often or that you like the most? For the 3D side, it's most often Maya or 3DS Max. For the 2D side, there are still some people who use After Effects, but the industry standard is now Nuke by the Foundry. Oh yeah, Nuke is cool. So I didn't realize that it had cut so much into After Effects territory because for a long time they were the standard, right? They were. And actually, when I started, I was an After Effects artist and I switched over to Nuke. I want to say maybe 10 years ago. So the main thing is that Nuke is processor light. It doesn't, you know, cause your, your server room to kind of melt down. After Effects is just kind of slower and heavier, but also After Effects is layer based and Nuke is node based. And that just makes it a lot easier in my mind to integrate a lot of the 3D stuff. Like it's easier to get into the camera and look in the Z space and kind of rotate cameras around and effect lighting and do things like particle effects. It's just a little bit easier to do in Nuke. Is there, I mean, do you run on a normal consumer hardware? Do you need special video cards? How does that work? Again, if you're a consumer with a good amount of money, you could probably build my setup, but it's, it's kind of like, you know, I have like 128 gigs of RAM. I have like, you know, multiple 3 gigahertz processors going and then my graphics card is in like an air conditioned room. So, I mean, they're all things you could buy. Yeah. What graphics card do you use? Right now, and it's in a different building. I'm working remotely, but I think they swapped me out to the NVIDIA Titan X. I think I was on the quadra before, but I started working on some artificial intelligence stuff and I just needed a little more. So you're accessing your machine remotely. You don't have it in your house. Yeah. That's interesting. I'm on what's called a Teradici, which is like a remote access point. So I have my monitors and I have the Teradici here. I've got my keyboard, my wake-up tablet, but all the stuff is in another building in Burbank. Is that pandemic related or is that just how you're working before? It's pandemic related. I mean, we have it. We had all of these things available for people who needed to work remotely, like people who are doing setups, you know, in another state because they were on set for something. Yeah, we ended up beefing that up for the pandemic. Just a quick follow-up on that. Obviously, you know, in the past, big issues would be lag and like latency and all that sort of thing. But it seems like the technologies have made leaps and bounds in terms of real-time streaming tech and video games is a good example of where that's happening. Cloud-based, you know, assistance for making this stuff feel like you're basically on a terminal in the same room as the computer doing all the work. But also this is mostly a security thing, right? You can't have your models and your stuff just kind of flying around the Internet without security protocol that is definitely on the other side, but not necessarily on your dumb terminal side. Am I thinking that's right? What you mean as far as how secure this is? Yeah, like I assume what you're doing is very secure as opposed to you bringing it home all the hardware and doing it there. There's no, I mean, unless I was to sit here and film my screen on my iPhone, it's a very analog kind of thievery that would happen. I can't download anything. There's no access point for me to take anything off of this terminal. Gotcha. And also my Internet feed, like I have a separate Internet feed so that we can do comms that is not connected to my desktop. So it's like a virtual, like X2Go Internet connection that can't actually see my desktop. Do bandwidth and latency end up being a problem or is that not an issue for you? It really had an issue, but then again, all of us are dweebs so we all have like the fastest gaming connections at our house because when we're not working, we're, you know, playing Destiny or whatever. Or at least my husband does. I do cross-ditch. A really robust home connection is enough for you to get into your machine and then the machine's doing all the hard work. If you have like a heavy gamer connection at your house, it's plenty. I don't have any latency on my machine at all. That was something we were worried about when we all went off the grid here, but it hasn't been a problem. Well, Carrie, I'd love to know of all the projects that you've worked on. Is there anything that stands out as just like this was the most fun or the most challenging? Oh, man. So I'm bound in a certain way because I actually do a lot of cosmetic work on people that I'm not allowed to talk about. And some of that stuff has been really, even though people may not know that it's there, it's really challenging and kind of fun to do. Like taking away moles? You're like, it was me. No. I mean, like rebuilding people's faces, like, you know, making them thin, making them look younger. Seeing it's that stuff. That's super impressive because it's that stuff that's usually the uncanny valley. And when it's done right, there's a double-edged sword to that. It looks amazing and you know that work is great, but no one notices. So you don't get the credit that you would normally get. But I'm fine with that because like the people who would really, really appreciate what I did are the people who know how it works and they know what I did. So like I have their respect and then and then the people who are watching the show enjoyed it and didn't notice it. So that makes me happy too. Yeah. So, but you know the Banshee bus flip we did was really fun for the dudes running through traffic and I mean, there's nothing in that scene. He's just running down an empty road. That is crazy. I know what that scene looks really cool. Yeah, I mean, we got an Emmy for it. So we deserved it. But like there were like 11 of us working on that sequence. There's a fake bus. There's fake cars. There's fake everything. But it was so well planned out by the people who directed that show that he's like bouncing off cars and, you know, dodging around and he did such a great job acting that it really looked good. And that felt really great when that was complete. So I think that points out one of the one of the things that happens is people criticize visual effects because they only notice the things that aren't right. They don't notice when it's done right. And so they don't give it credit. Are there other preconceived notions like that that you would like people not to have? Yeah, I mean, like don't hate on visual effects because you don't even know the stuff that looks amazing because you don't know it's there and there is visual effects in everything. Every single thing on TV has visual effects. All of it. Every show. Every single show has visual effects. Every movie, even if you don't think it has visual effects has visual effects. Sometimes a lot of visual effects. But also I think I think the bad rap that CG gets a lot of the time is that things weren't planned for like if people on both ends don't plan for how something is going to work. It's not going to look great. But if you have, and I would say like in the last 20 years, the most ideal thing was Mad Max Fury Road. Of course. That was the greatest. It just happens to be Scott's favorite movie. High five because that is one of my favorite movies too. But that was the best marriage of practical and CG just ever, period. But George Miller really thought it through like every frame of that movie he thought through how that stuff was going to be married together. And the CG served the story. It made the land more fantastical. It was beautiful. Like whoever got to build that dust storm. That was probably the thing they're most proud of. Just her arm, like all of it. Just from top to bottom that was like the best execution of visual effects. I have to ask Carrie before we before we move on just for anybody who's listening to your story and saying sounds like she has a great job. How'd you get into it. Okay, this is hilarious. So I actually used to be a high school teacher. I was kind of drowning in student loans and not having enough money and a friend of mine who's actually the visual effects supervisor on the boys that this guy named Stefan fleet. He was just a friend of mine, but he knew that I came from kind of a computer background like my dad used to do intelligence. Department of Defense computer stuff and he taught us to be very highly computer literate our whole lives. So he was like, Well, I just started my own little boutique place and I can't afford all these heavy hitters. Do you want to be like an entry level person and see if you can teach yourself this stuff. So I literally so cool. Yeah, I would just work my regular job and then I go work at the studio for a couple weeks and teach myself after effects at the time like how to do and he was like, Well, here's a here's what to shoot for once you can execute this quality will will hire you. So that's how I got into it. Love that. Nice not being broke. Right. Yeah. You know, you get to, you know, make buses flip over and you know, you know, it sounds really fun. Thanks, Carrie. This has been very enlightening and hopefully, you know, some folks in our audience who might be interested in the in the line of work or maybe be interested in getting into the line of work. We'll have some feedback for us. We'll have the conversation in our discord, which you can join by linking to a patreon account at patreon.com slash D T N S also shout out to patrons at our master and grand master levels, including a Steve, I had to roll up Chris Allen and Mike Acons. Carrie Speth, you are a busy person. And you have the coolest job ever. I'm jealous. Let folks know where they can keep up with your work. You can follow me on Twitter if you want. I'm Ada engine. That's it. No online presence. I'm an analog old person. Even better. Yeah, that's really I'm just doing my work. If you know it, you know, it's good. Also, thanks to Scott Johnson for being with us today. Scott, where should people keep up with what you're up to now? Pardon my exuberance at someone else on here talking great things about Fury Road, but it got me all going here. I have energy now. Hey, Tom and I just put out a brand new episode of current key chronicles that deals with basically the timeline and a lot of the ins and outs of what connectivity technology is. Everything from scuzzy back in the day, ID hard drives, USB C now, everything in between. Do you miss your old parallel port? Maybe we do too. We talk about that. We do it in a fun, entertaining way. So come see what we did with our team and put together for that episode. The entirety of this season is available at current geek chronicles.com and excuse me, current geek.com. But if you're looking forward on your podcast directory, just search for current geek or current geek chronicles and you're in. So perfect little tech nugget after today's tech news. Go check it out. Don't forget, folks, you can always support the show at any level at daily tech news show.com slash Patreon. You can email it to speedbackdaletechnewshow.com. Please write us early and often. We're also live Monday through Friday, 4 30 p.m. Eastern, 23 to UTC. Find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. Back tomorrow with Brian Brushwood and tips on turning your hobby into a business. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Well, I hope you have enjoyed this program.