 Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE at OpenStack Summit Vancouver 2015. Brought to you by headline sponsors EMC and jointly by Red Hat and Cisco with additional sponsorship by Brocade and HP. And now your hosts, John Furrier and Stu Miniman. Okay, hello everyone. Welcome back to day three of the OpenStack Summit live CUBE coverage here in Vancouver, British Columbia. This is Silicon Angles theCUBE. This is our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. I'm John Furrier with my coast this week. Stu Miniman, chief analyst at cloud and conversion infrastructure for wikibon.com. And it's three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Pack schedule, an amazing event here in Vancouver. We get the shades on, we get the sun out, cruise ships, weather's perfect. Really shining the light on OpenStack's progress on the path to maturity. Stu, day three, really a significant event for OpenStack at many levels. One is the traction that they have. This path to maturity, which seems to be the theme. And also the vibe is great. I mean, people are, it's growing community. A lot of first-time practitioners here. You got engineers across the board from software down to operations, you know, attending the sessions. It is so crowded in the technical sessions that people are literally sitting on the floor waiting to get information. And so it's been pretty significant. Your take on this? Yeah, so John, it's funny, coming into this. You know, some of the press, you know, we're kind of really down on what was going on with OpenStack. You know, Business Insider, you know, said that, you know, VCs are getting freaked out and they're pulling money out. One of the leading analyst firms dropped a report and said that OpenStack is really a science project. And we expect it to come to Vancouver and see clouds and, you know, probably a bunch of rain. Well, as we can tell here, it is sunny. The group is excited, you know, between 6,000 and 7,000 people here at the conference. You know, definitely, I think the number I heard was at least there's 400 people that OpenStack Foundation know of that are running OpenStack in production. Red Hat alone said that they have hundreds of paying customers that are using their OpenStack solutions. So I'm not ready to say that OpenStack has reached that maturity or that we're hitting the inflection point this year. I do think that with things like Defcore, the big tent, interoperability, that the line of sight to maturity is there. I really, really expect that either by Tokyo in six months or Austin a year from now, which is going to go back to where it all started, that we will be able to say OpenStack is mature, fully ready for prime time. It's ready for production today, but that, you know, really we're going to cross that chasm and get more people using it. So, you know, the spirit is right here and everybody's excited. Stu, you got to highlight some facts here for the folks out there. I want to get your thoughts on it. EMC's here in a big way. We had Brian Gallagher on, who was running a $11 billion business for EMC now, heading up what they call Platform Three, which is the emerging territory in this new era of cloud. You've got Cisco and Red Hat talking about their partnership, pretty significant. You've got Brocade, basically with Open Daylight. They've done some amazing things. They're in a good position. And then you've got the Corp of Stack community, which is kicking ass and doing very well. The passion, the energy, there's a nice balance. So it's really good. I want to get your thoughts on that and specifically around how the Converge infrastructure players are doing. Because what we heard from Gallagher was the tease out of, we got to make all the operational engineering work with this new software model. So what does that mean for the Converge infrastructure players? What's the story? Who's winning? Who's losing? Who's, what's the positioning? What are they doing? Yeah, so John, first of all, from a, you know, fundamental piece of Open Stack, the projects are in really good shape. Last year we knew that Nova and Swift and Cinder were really solid. This year, Neutron's getting close. Companies like Brocade, you mentioned, Cisco, HP, Red Hat all contributing, how Open Daylight is fitting into it. Neutron is really close to getting there. And once we have those fundamental pieces, then how do we package it up? Definitely Converge infrastructure has been this huge wave. When Wikibon came out with really the industry's first forecast on Converge infrastructure, that was two and a half, three years ago, people thought we were nuts when we said that by, you know, later this decade, two thirds of all IT will be consumed in some form of reference architecture to single skew. But what we know is that customers want simplicity. Customers want to be able to be pulled together. EMC at EMC World talked about how Open Stack fits into their plans, teasing out a project that they call Caspian. And, you know, it's really an extension because if, you know, Converge infrastructure isn't just about pulling compute and storage and network together, it's really about, you know, managing things at more of a rack scale, getting out of our silos and enabling applications to be played a little bit simpler. In some ways, you know, you're looking at just taking that from a virtualization layer, but we've got the emerging things, you know, more bare metal in there, you know, more containers being in that environment. One of the vendors I talked to on the show floor is a little startup to a strato scale that actually, you know, enables from a software standpoint, it can do, you know, VMs, it can do containers. Cisco has actually put some money into them. So, you know, there's a lot growing in this space of Converge infrastructure. Announcement this morning from SimpliVity, who's expanded to KVM, because that's still at a fundamental basis. There's some companies that are saying, you know, well, what does Open Stack do for me? Well, it can give me some flexibility as to how I look at the hypervisor environment, of course, being Open Source with Open Stack, you know, KVM goes great with that. We're going to have Mark Shuttleworth on today, who's going to talk about what Canonical's doing and LexD that they announced, had some announcements this week on. So, you know, Convergence is definitely a consumption model and it's tying more and more into Open Stack, so I like to see how those pieces come together. Open Stack being an integration engine and Converge and hyperconverged options can really be that underlying, you know, stable platform that sits underneath it, that layer that with Open Stack, you know, go toward more commodity hardware, things like Open Compute sometimes fit into it, so a lot of moving parts, but you know, want to simplify all the pieces of the stack as we can, so Converge and hyperconverge underneath, Open Stack on top of it, new modern apps helping to drive a lot of it, pull it all together. So, Stu, what's your take on the Open Stack's positioning vis-a-vis the big vendors? We had some discussion about Azure.net, plugging in, you got VMware doing some stuff. Again, Open Stack is becoming the centroid point or centroid of the cloud infrastructure and there's a lot of integration points. Tease out what that means and what is the strategy? I mean, there's no land grab going on in Open Stack, certainly the community has kind of shielded the Teflon on the front end of this community is solid where it's like no land grabbing going on, but there's integration points that are pretty interesting. What does that all mean? So John, first of all, right, you know, no longer is Open Stack trying to say, oh, we're your alternative to Amazon and we're going to kill Amazon. It's, you know, a lot of this is for the on-premises environment, hybrid cloud-type solutions. You got, we did a great interview, I really enjoyed with Bobby Patrick, who talked about, you know, it's a multi-cloud world and HP is going to work with your on-prem. They've got their public offering and of course customers are going to have Amazon and Azure use Google application, they're using Salesforce and the big vendors like HP, IBM, EMC, VMware Federation, you know, and others are going to play into how do we pull all those together, need to worry about identity management across these, have to consider security across all of these and in many ways its customers internally have to do their own, you know, evaluation of their application portfolio and what legacy applications are going in certain places and which applications they're going to modernize. I really think that's the air gap that I've seen in the industry for the last few years and Open Stack is going to be part of some of those modern applications because to be honest, John, from an infrastructure standpoint, many of the things that we saw are simplifying infrastructure but haven't necessarily been enabled for the Hadoops and no sequels of the world. Talk about the developer impact because you have a blend between developer focus here, DevOps is the ethos of Open Stack but DevOps is now broadening this definition with cloud, cloud operations, the role of the personnel involved, the role of developers, the container component, what's going on with that, Stu? We, you know, last year at Open Stack Atlanta, it was containers rage, not so much here. I mean, you're hearing it or what's your take? Is it container driven conversation or is now containers a subset of the larger conversation? So I actually liked the way the Open Stack Foundation, Mark Collier put it in his keynote yesterday, was, you know, we're really early in containers. I mean, we know that, you know, two years ago we weren't having this discussion. Linux containers existed but if you weren't Google or one of those other big guys, you weren't using it yet, it is really early. You know, Docker, of course, the big player, we're going to be at DockerCon next month. CoreOS is actually going to be our next interview, really excited to talk to them and then you've got, you know, the Kubernetes and Mesosphere and a bunch of other pieces around it and there's a few projects here, an Open Stack dealing with it. It's Magnum, works with things like Docker Swarm and Kubernetes. Kola is another one that fits in the container space. So a number of projects here to kind of tease that out. But John, yeah, I mean, in some cases, Dev is the new ops. You've kind of talked about cloud ops in general, but the Dev is worried about that application and if we can simplify the underlying infrastructure, use Open Stack as that integration engine so that underneath it just ties into the required hardware, it's a real opportunity to kind of move the needle because the unfortunate part is IT has spent way too much time and effort making, you know, bespoke infrastructure that they just have to spend lots of time keeping the business running, not transforming and growing the business. All right, Sue, I want to get your take now as the analyst, someone who's out in the trenches. I mean, you work really hard, you know, you work the parties like we all do. You're done the hallways, you're doing the analyst briefings. We're the hotspots in Open Stack. We're the danger areas. What's at risk? What's the developing area? Where are the opportunities? And if you can kind of talk about that big picture landscape, visa v investment thesis is around some of the VCs. We saw Menlo Ventures here. We see, you know, different kind of VCs here. There's investment going on. This deal's being done. So, you know, I'll say this activity, but where are the hotspots to? You mentioned KVM with SimpliVity and others. What's going on? I mean, there's some danger areas. There's some opportunities. There's some hotspots. What are they? Yeah, so first of all, a danger area. While we are reaching maturity in Open Stack, the number one thing I've heard from the interviews we've done in talking to everyone is migrations from going from one revision to the next is not non-disruptive. We all know in the software world, you know, we've got to get there. If this is the underlying platform and I have to have an outage to be able to go from one version to the next, that's really not acceptable for most companies to have that in a production environment. Of course, we can do it rolling. We have applications that can manage that, send to zoning. So there's ways around it, but you know, the Open Stack community is strongly focused on that. I talked to a number of software vendors that are finding ways around that, that they can use their technologies, you know, to handle that one challenge. Unfortunately, John, you know, the whole kind of management and orchestration layer is still one that we need to do a lot of work. You know, as my five years of being an analyst, you know, the joke has always been, well, you know, the big challenge to cloud is, you know, security and management. And here we are, 2015, still one of the major problems. Containers, things like Kubernetes and Mezos. We'll talk to Redbeard in a minute what CoreOS is doing to help try to solve some of those problems. But it is still a big problem and unfortunately that one hasn't been solved yet. So Open Stack is no longer just an anti-AWS says Stu Miniman, Bert Latimore was tweeting that comment. Expand on the impact of Amazon. Not so much that big shadow of Amazon here. I mean, I think everyone kind of puts that aside. That narrative is no longer viable because you're seeing different use cases than Amazon. What's your comment on this and how do you dissect that and how do you explain that to users? So the interesting thing to look at Amazon, of course, is they took, you know, what were just, you know, tools that companies could use, like, you know, EC2 and EBS and everything else, kind of your compute, your storage and your VPC networking and companies could build a lot on of it. And Amazon's been moving up the stack, things like Redshift, things like, you know, their virtual desktop, desktop as a service, their database that they launched last year, their leveraging containers. So, you know, that line between infrastructure as a service and platform as a service has blurred. One of our guests this week actually said that IaaS and Paz discussion is really all passe. So, you know, I think that's true. So how does the OpenStack community go beyond just being that, you know, infrastructure layer and help leverage, you know, moving up the stack with the API economy to create new applications? And there's a lot of opportunity there, John. So we are here live at the OpenStack Summit here for three days of wall-to-wall coverage. This is day three. John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We've got a lot of great guests. And I guess in summary of day one kickoff is, I mean, day three kickoff here is that we've had two days of great announcements, but this is a learning show. It's continuing to grow. A lot more people here learning. Great momentum. And again, I would say that the trajectory of OpenStack Stu is up and to the right. Has it kicked up fully on a scale basis? It's getting there, but it is on a path to maturity. Final thoughts before we get into the interviews. Yeah, I think you're totally right there, John. I think that the line of sight to maturity is there. I think we've identified and have, you know, good pieces in place. We will see, you know, who makes a lot of money off this because, you know, you've got, you know, companies putting, you know, thousands of people at this problem, you know, what kind of margins can they make? The business, you know, models for making money off of open source is difficult. So as we get everybody stamped with powered by OpenStack, how do we differentiate? And if I can actually inter-operate and move workloads around, it's going to be fighting. We are a long way from saying that cloud is commoditized, you know, but, you know, there's a lot of things on the business side to hash out. We're going to be talking one of the VCs today to get an update on that. And, you know, big players making a lot of moves. Small guys still very active in this environment. You know, more startups coming into space. So it's been a fun one to watch. Okay, we are live here. We'll be right back with our next guest. Day three coverage continues here at the OpenStack Summit live in Vancouver, British Columbia, this is theCUBE. Thanks for watching. We'll be right back with our next guest and we want to thank our sponsors for letting us come here for three days without the sponsors, we wouldn't be here. EMC, Red Hat, Cisco, Brocade, and we really appreciate it. And the OpenStack Foundation, of course. And the OpenStack Foundation, really awesome. Thank you for your all your support. Support the sponsors, and again, we'll be back with more coverage after this short break.