 Howdy fam Anthony dream Johnson or today founder of 21 studios the 21 convention 21 summit the patriarch convention The 22 convention make women great again make man alpha again 21 University and Co-founder of the rad man group and about 10,000 other things on the internet Welcome to today's episode of the rad man group. I'll be your host, of course Joining me on today's show is a returning guest of the show a good friend of the show and on many many times And other mandatory live streams as well like Tony Bruno show check them out Tony Bruno on YouTube So he's coming back on the show today. He's a Christian pastor. He's spoken at our events several times Across different conferences 21 convention patriarch for fathers 22 convention for women and It's a good man. He's one of the most alpha men I know it says a pure-blooded alpha male pure-blooded red-pilled red-pilled alpha male very alpha 100% patriarch rules This home head of his family king of his castle leader of his church He's the senior pastor. I think it's how you call it at his church in Batavia, Ohio He also does had a big conference one of his first and I think a couple years and it's huge We're gonna talk about that. He had over 500 people show up to a wasn't like a He can explain it better than I can basically it's a lot about Christianity But also localism and building up your local community in your county before you build your country and out into the world interesting stuff Before we get into this show Shout out to our sponsor 21 University. Check it out in the description 21 studios comm slash mobile It's a free app download on the app store both Apple stores Android stores all that kind of stuff It's free on your iPhone, you know other phones iPad all that kind of stuff Check it out free download and you get early ad-free access to our videos and exclusive content Too spicy and too hot for YouTube. Check it out now In addition to that another shout out to our second sponsor and this five-minute ad slash introduction Check out get tickets to 21 studios or 21 summit Excuse me at 21 studios comm link at the top says live events and a link in the description, too 21 summits coming up soon. There's Elliot Hulse in Zeus mode. Everybody's lightning eyes. Literally all of us Jack Donovan coach Greg Adams Richard gran and myself Michael Foster the patriarch event our chief patriarch Get tickets now early bird tickets still on sale So you can get like a huge savings on tickets and you can bring a friend free all meant long to the end of September here So you get tickets for men to the 21 convention at the same time You can get tickets to the patriarch convention same weekend same venue and chicks only a birthing person's only you get tickets to 22 convention Check it out. Get tickets now. Boom Bada bing bada boom Last promotion is actually 100% free Especially live in Florida Central Florida or any of us in Florida and you want to meet Michael or his buddy pastor Brian Savet Also speaking at our events this year. There's gonna be a free Church service for Christians by Michael and Brian on Sunday morning October 16 Tickets are free. You just have to register for the event on this website There'll be a link in the description or you can go to 21 studios comm slash patriarch dash Sunday The free event and you go to it It's gonna be like an hour hour and 15 long in the morning on Sunday We have one last year and it's really popular So we're bringing it back this year and I think you'll enjoy it a lot And there also will be special day tickets available on that Sunday as well to the event if you want to stay At the rest of the day, but again tickets are free It's a special thing we're doing and you can also check out Michael's Twitter And he'll be announcing it soon as well there link in the description to his Twitter Now without further ado all these billion ads and sponsors for today's show Welcome pastor Michael Foster to the show Michael welcome the show. Yeah, great to be back. It's been a bit Yeah, I think you're on here about two months ago with Brian And we did a show loosely similar to today But it was really for both of you and today I wanted to focus much more on you and your book that you put out just a few months ago I think one of your first books if not your first major book you put out there can impress it is it's my first I wrote a forward. I've been publishing some journals and stuff before but this is the first book I wrote with Co-authored with my friend non-tenant. So yeah, it says stuff very well. It's been it's been exciting Yeah, I have a copy of it right here. Not that I've read all of it yet, but I have skinned a little bit of it It's good to be a man and it's a handbook for godly masculinity. I believe is the correct way. It's up title I know your buddy. I called him be a non. I didn't know is non Yeah, the bee is silent a lot of people do that. So okay, that's his uh, it's old gamertag Amongst his friends, okay? Everybody watching is actually a link in the description to the Amazon version of this book You can also get in other websites. I think Barnes and Noble can impress has it. There's a Kindle version too, right? Yep audio book or no. Yep unaudible Who did you read it? Now Wade Stott she was the sound guy on louder with Crowder. He actually he did it. He did a great job I was um, I just couldn't make it out there. They wanted me to I just didn't have the time It's hard recording. It's hard recording books like that reading everything. Oh, I have no doubt and no doubt I know other people who've tried it. It's really really hard I'm kind of amazed like well connected. You are sometimes like you'll put out these huge books You'll know these people and these like 8 million subscriber YouTube channels. You've been in documentaries movies and stuff, right? It's been a weird. Yeah, it's been a weird life pretty well connected. Yeah, right place right time So talk to me a little bit about the book I've seen you not only promoting it of course for months on Twitter and social media and to a good launch It's one of the most popular books and its categories on Amazon number one I think a Christian's masculinity or something like that That's been number one on and off for since we we launched it in a variety of categories Yeah, but you know the subcategories all have different numbers of books. So what it means to be number one is It varies greatly so number one and Christian men's issues. That's pretty good So we sold tens of thousands of copies at this point. So yeah It started We started a project to write a systematic theology of sexuality then we Slowly realized that was just more than we could Accomplish and we ditched that and decided let's write a book that maybe it's not timeless, but it's timely And we wanted to write a book that instead of covering everything. It's funny when you read most masculinity books They define masculinity really by being a husband Right and being a father But we think you should be a man before you're a husband or father And defining what it means to be a man simply by those roles You know didn't make sense to us. So we wrote a book that's not about getting married. That's not about raising kids But doing the hard work of becoming a man before that like developing your masculine abilities being Developing strength both outer inner strength wisdom workmanship ability to have skills to get things done So that's what we started to do. Um, we wrote lots of blog posts Some of that got reworked into the book wrote about 80 000 words maybe maybe 90 000 49 000 of those made it into the book. Uh, that went through a couple different edits It's really good having a actual editor. It's annoying at first you get back your book with all their their critiques and We were actually really mad. I was mad and I said, well, let's just say thank you and take a week and think on it and then we came back and When we had time the processor their critiques were like, no No, that's actually a good point. They made the book a lot better. So we ended up almost rewriting huge sections of the book to make it flow better to make it connect then um We let it released it last november. I think it's yeah last november. I was right after the convention. Okay Yeah, you were trying to get it to the event. I remember I was and it just didn't work because of supply chain and all this madness but um, yeah, it's crazy man like It kind of put me On the scene in a way that I never imagined I mean, I I'm starting to get recognized at airports just randomly People coming up and asking me to sign their book and take pictures and tell me how I save You know how we save their live and lives and all that stuff It's important not to let that go to your head or you'll start sounding like an idiot But um, yeah, man, it's for guru. No time. No. No, uh, say it's not so look It's got to go by the book man. I get a couple of dollars royalty and there's no classes or anything, but um But anyway, so it's been really you need a uh gumroad course right away for god. They'd ask you any $47 we thought about and I just couldn't bring myself to do it I just couldn't I couldn't do it. I actually that's one of my sessions at this year's um It's the session I had planned for last year But I just didn't didn't get it done in time and I didn't want it to be rolled out unfinished But it's all about escaping the orbit of alpha gurus and my point is that I have I don't have a problem with coaches or uh, but but mentors they mentor you in an area Right like how to get your business going or marketing or health or whatever Life coaches when you pay someone to kind of be your life coach You're basically paying them to be your friend to be your brother to be your father That sort of relationship that a lot of the men in the manager have with these Gurus or marketers or whatever you want to call them. I think it's very destructive And it's a way to keep someone dependent on you as opposed to raising helping someone become independent My goal as a father Is that someday my sons will be roughly a peer that they won't depend on me anymore that they'll um They'll be able to take care of themselves. They'll be able to give wisdom to me They'll they'll be approaching an equal always be their dad always be ahead of them But they they should be able to close the distance between us I don't see that attitude in A lot of these venues where the goal is to raise men up to being self-sufficient being their own man They they really want guys that kind of orbit around them. It's kind of funny like they they'll talk about You'll insult guys and say they orbit around a woman, right? The Obama orbiter and those that's a real thing and that is it is pathetic to see men like that But it's also pathetic to see men do that around other men where not where you respect them like a father But he's more like this hero almost cult leader, right? This is personality So I want to take a chance to go at that and say look if there's a if there's a course That's narrowly focused take like our friend Pat Steadman Um, you know, obviously Pat and I care for on things, but I feel like he's one of the more honest people in this place Pat Steadman. It's Pat Steadman. Yeah, Pat's very honest and straightforward If you're paying Pat to help you kind of work on your dating game and thinks through things through you're gonna get You're gonna get your bang for your buck and he's gonna try to help you Pat's not trying to be your dad Pat's not trying. He doesn't want your undying loyalty. He understands the nature of that relationship These other guys you're like, what is this relationship? It's it's a very cult like at times So if I couldn't I want to pause you on something You said orbiters and then you kind of brought that into a more recent context So orbiters is an old school manuscript term. You're right But especially in the pickup artist community guys would they would call them beta orbiters and stuff And you'd even see in a club back in the 2000s or even later like dudes literally orbiting around a chick You know some hot chick or brought a bunch of little betas to follow around and now you see it on instagram and the internet stuff But I do agree with you and it's it's sick to me that these dudes now the modern term in the manister They call it simping right don't simp for that chick simp simp simp But the minute they simp for a guy which in a way is what you're describing They're just how like these blinders on they go from being like I have the red pill lens to see the world for how it really is And then they are blind as a bat and blue pill as can possibly be When it comes to simping for some alpha guru on the internet Who in reality is a huge liar a huge fraud, you know secretly wiping up You know old single moms lying about it shaving 10 years off their age Hiding this chick hiding that it's all deceptive and it's it's fevery like it's really Come over to my house last year after so we did county before country last year as our first year and this is our second year And I always put on an event for the guys that are in uh, not and I have an online community For some guys that Don't have men where they're at and they just need some support. It's kind of like a discord server and all this I invite them all to um county before country and put on a live event just for us And so they'll come back to my house or somewhere and hang out the speakers And this guy after afterwards says, uh, michael, you're just a normal guy And I put my hand on his shoulders and I said look brother who are all just normal guys Right like everyone that's not to say like you look at a guy like elliot elliott's very elliot hulse very accomplished or whatever You go out and have a meal with elliot He's a normal guy Loves his wife wants to do well wants to build people up. Yeah, he's really he's a he's quite the strong man and all that but in terms of just This sort of larger and life personality that gets projected online. Sometimes that's our fault as a speaker But a lot of times it's the the person watching us turns us into something that we're not Yes, and when we have a chance to the level with someone What that does is it gives them the hope that they can rise to the level of accomplishment that we have in our life Like yeah, I was like you you can do what I've I've done or you can do it some at some level What I don't like with the alpha guru types is that you will never be as great as I am And what you have to do is basically You know give honor to me if you try to break away at all for me or whatever Then you're a betrayer and you're a fraud the whole time and And you have to give me money on patreon and buy my book and this book and that book and 10 books and more money on patreon And the coaching and it's an endless endless grift where there's you know, it's interesting You mentioned this codependency kind of or you put it in different terms, but They keep these guys stuck in a cycle and what Sean Smith dr. Sean Smith pointed out at 21 last year Unlike the red man group panel he was on is that it's very deceptive and it's convincing to these guys because When they keep them stuck in this dependent loop this dependency They give them the opposite language. They say oh, I want you to think for yourself and be independent And if you just and if you disagree with me, you know your fraud your loser You were always wrong your beta or whatever So it's this constant Gaslighting where they really do want them stuck in this codependency cycle You know on the hamster wheel paying 10 bucks a month forever or whatever, right? And then they feed them this language of no, you're gonna think for yourself And by think for yourself. I mean think exactly like I do the whole time I mean as a christian That sometimes these guys mock It's especially humorous to me. Well, I'm not like you brainless religious people that trust in a book and just do everything You're told to do and whatever. I'm an independent thinker. Yeah, and I'm watching and I'm like Well, I think I think you don't realize you're in a church of a sort Okay. Yeah, I think you are in kind of a more cultic abusive relationship like our church We don't tell people what to do like that um And uh, we have room for doubts. We have rooms for disagreements and all that stuff You don't really see that in a lot of these channels like the moment you start to doubt anything Yep, uh people like they fall on you they just so you know basically Two things that you see in a cult One is love bombing Right, so like praising you telling you you're awesome and all this stuff making you feel welcome A lot of these guys are so ostracized. They've gone through something terrible Um, maybe they are socially awkward for whatever reason when they start to really connect with people Um in this they feel at home And then they get a like from some guy that they uh that they respect on instagram or twitter or whatever and in those guys, um You know those guys receive that love then they just feel brought into a community and that that can be legitimate love But love bombing where it's like over the top So you see that in lots of cults a little bit in the monastery what you what you especially see though Is that anyone that challenges? The the narrative challenges the main guy There is just immediate and swift Um retribution for that Disappearable and they and you either fall back in line or you get blocked You know, you know, who cares? Well, it's also it's also the fans that come after you and if I post the meme We've had a flood of new subscribers on youtube as you know We've gained 70 000 subs in the past two months or something like that It's crazy And so they're they're new to the channel. They're new to the content but not necessarily the manisphere So i'm like, okay There's there's fresh meat for me to trigger and to rile these guys up and and kind of poke their cognitive dissonance So i'm posting a lot of like fresh and fit memes and stuff like that, right? And it drives these guys nuts They instantly like have this knee jerk reaction And they come out and it creates a huge fight in the comments because there's guys that follow 21 That are like, yeah, I hate fnf, you know, screw these guys go anthony And then you see this army of simps who come out of nowhere and you're they all say the same thing That's what's so interesting They they've said the same thing for a year and it's new guys. They all say the same thing, right? They're like little zombies like little ants that come out, you know, you're clout chasing your hater or this or that This is free advertising for fresh and fit blah blah blah. It's like man You really think me putting them and cross dressing them into white chicks is free advertising for these people You think they like this they hate this they're terrified of it I have guys close to them that have given me receipts of sort That tell me how scared these guys are because i'm hurting their business Just like the other guys i've gone after, you know, they laugh and giggle and you're half You're clout chasing and none of that's true. That's all the opposite. You know, it's the frauds that clout chase each other It's the lesser content creators like conovan who who do endless reactions to fresh and fit That's clout chasing or endless reactions to kevin samuels. This is clout chasing But anyway, it's the mindlessness that you're talking about these people. You're right They think they're so high and mighty because they're not christian or they're not religious Now as you know, i'm an atheist like i'm not uh, so i'm not christian or any other form of religion But i call these people i don't like them either i call them flying spaghetti monster people Because that's the level of intelligence that they're like reddit, you know, these little reddit like turds Like you believe in the flying spaghetti monster in the magic sky daddy They're philosophically children like they're they're pathetic. I don't like them either at all I like hanging out with guys like you better because you're philosophically consistent You know what you believe and you actually believe in it and you don't have to say loosey goosey relativist post modern dork Well, that's I hate that crap the most like yeah, these like these these patriarchs like you are way cooler a lot more fun A lot more interesting to to argue with you know Yep, yep, I agree and ran So I think um, no, I think it's uh, it's gonna be a great year to talk about some of those things I mean what our hope is to kind of tie it together with the book is What the world needs is more confident men and That's the guys that grew up without a good dad that could teach me these things Maybe they had a dad. It was just abdicating. He wasn't there to actually teach him Well, maybe it was absent. It's very difficult to learn how to be a man from a woman You know, I always tell people women make good moms. They make terrible fathers but uh And there's not a lot of you know, there's not a lot of mentors out there that are good that won't use you They a lot of these younger men are being used and abused by feminists But also by these sort of opportunities that Will use language that draws these men in our goal is to we need a world full of stronger men Right a man that will push back On these evil forces in our in our country and and uh, love a woman have children and Raise strong families that become the bedrock of a society and I always you know, if you want here's how you grow a church You go after the men and the women and children will follow if you go after the um the women, um The children will probably come until they get old enough to stay at home But men rarely start coming to church just because of their life and There's interesting studies that if a man goes to church his kids Are like 70 percent likely to to attend church through their adult lives It drops down to like 50 40 percent if it's just the woman that attends. That's the power of fathers And so I want to I want to pause you and back up for a second. You mentioned a few minutes ago before I forget I loved how you you described it too and defined it your book is about like masculinity itself And you don't and I do get annoyed by these tradcons that they want to define masculinity But it's like a shell and they want to fill it with being a husband and being a father Which are no doubt important elements and possibilities of being a man But it's not the whole picture And it's not the foundation and I think even your I love People say don't judge a book by its cover and I think there's some merit to that But what I never hear them say is judging a book by its title Which I think is in its end subtitle and your book does that really really well It's not about being a husband and a father necessarily It's I mean the title is it's good to be a man not husband not father man And then the subtitle is you know, uh a handbook for godly masculinity So there's no mention here of you know being a father and a husband and then your content is consistent of that from what you're telling me At the very end of the we we have Um, I forget how many chapters we have in that book. I just remember the last chapters on on women And it's very brief. Uh, so I think it's what 14 chapters keeping my head straight. We edited so many times Yeah, 14. So 13 chapters on how manhood was lost how to regain it And then at the very end we talk about uh, how a wife can be a wonderful multiplier to your life And so I always hear people say well, I feel like your book was demeaning towards women My book barely talks about women. Yeah, right. You haven't read my book I can tell I can tell you don't know you're talking about you're just lying and you think I'm going to be baited into caring about this Well, I wanted to ask you actually about christian pushback You've gotten from other christians about the book like that because I've seen you respond to some of these on facebook and social media Yep, so what's some of the pushback other pastors and christians have given you on the internet One is that the language is crass. That's kind of a funny one. So we use the word bastard Um, uh, quite a few but we're using it in a technical sense like the word bastard This means illegitimate. So it's someone that has a father, but the father won't claim him, right? So he doesn't bear his father's last name In a lot of us feel like that Functionally that we grew up bastards without a father committed to us And then that leads to a level of cluelessness like we don't know how to talk to women We don't know how to get things done We don't know how to carry ourselves. So we have this category of men that we call clueless bastards They take it as an insult It's more of a category and if you grew up without a father you grew up not knowing how to be a man you feel that pain Right and and the word bastard has a sting to it. So like say homosexual That is clinical say cytomite That has judgment attached to it. It's a more powerful word so if you say fatherless or whatever That's one thing that's fine, but when you say bastard it attaches the difficulty and Fringeness that you feel growing up without a really good man in your life So we wanted to use that word so they say that's crass They don't like the way we just discuss sex We call sex an engine of productivity that we think sex like if you think about fire Fire with outside of the a confines of something burns things and destroys it fire inside of the engine though It creates combustion that creates productivity and moves So your sex sexual drive is from god and when you use it to get you use it to get things done It pushes you forward. So they're like, why don't like you call in sex an engine of productivity? Well, okay, whatever. That's not crass though Like it's not inappropriate language. We're not like cussing throughout it. So I just think These guys are living a echo chamber a lot of them and bubbles because some of these are good men Who I actually know personally that just don't They are detached From where we're at in a society and and how How basic and powerful our words need to be when we speak to young men feel ashamed of their sexuality I'll tell wives this a lot of times That so women have a hard time understanding why men struggle with porn And that's because their sexual desires like a tenth of ours They don't understand that a man A lot of times if he's hormonally well Uh desires sex like exponentially more than they do. So they're like, well, I don't understand why I can't control yourself Well, you know a woman as her cycle as she's ovulating She gets a little more testosterone than usual and they can get kind of crazy You know they put a baby in me sort of attitude and um And that's that's still Not a hundred percent of what a man's like all the time And so you have to tell a woman like don't despise this if it's aimed at the right thing. It's a good thing But guys are taught to hate their sexual desire to be ashamed of it. The idea is that um Woody Allen said is sex Is sex dirty and Woody Allen said only when it's done right So the the joke is that sex has to be dirty No, it doesn't it can be wonderful. It can be strengthening. It can it can bond two people together It can produce children In scripture when someone's married it's said that they become uh to become one What is more a better example of that than a child? It is literally The combination of two different sets of dna personalities and whatever combined into one person Well, why would the creation of life be dirty? That sounds philosophically corrupt to the to the core Yeah, I guess what they would say if it happens outside of a committed relationship or marriage It's going to lead to destruction and I wouldn't disagree but that's not what you're talking about They're they're they think the intimacy of sex is dirty. They think Wanting a woman wanting to be wanted a man wanting to go go get her, right? They they treat that as as shameful So we were there was there was Christians who hate you and Doug Wilson who were coming after me in my newsletter for some language like this I was saying when I was single I used to hunt down like the hottest woman I could find That's what I wanted to do. It was challenging to me. It was interesting and it was fun You know, whatever other religious judgments you want to make that's fine, but when I was, you know Uh teenager in my 20s even early 30s This is like what I wanted to do and that's what I did and I didn't have any shame in it or any kind of Hangups about it and this angered these those christian people these fake christians I call them who uh, who hate you and hate the patriarchy and they they stalk you I mean they had they run ads they actually run paid ads. You know that about you and Doug wilson So I think like what a woman wants to be wanted She wants to be desired Like What what wife wants to be told she says do you think I'm pretty and you say You've got a great personality. Well woman wants to hear that right. She wants to know like look, we're not the ones that drive these uh makeup They want to stay young and beautiful the the way they dress that the you look at the articles they read and they're women magazines the magazines and websites they frequent um That's not guys doing that and and they want a strong dominant man. That's why millions of women bought 50 shades of gray. It wasn't us guys reading that crap like guys, uh, most guys don't think about choking a woman during sex We're like say what? Uh, that's and but there's women that get kind of twisted they get really twisted And they're looking for a strong dominant male and it turns into domineering, right? You know or domination in that sense That's uh, that's female desires that That are gross too. And so I think there's like a twisting of sexual desire that we need to be able to talk about but we can't because The the church ladies and the prudes Uh, don't talk about it. So our kids are gonna learn it from tiktok They can learn from and how's that gonna play out? I mean tiktok is uh, the deepest darkest corners of Of a sewer, you know Yeah No, let's let's talk about that real quick because our I wouldn't say he's a mutual friend You've never met him but a friend of mine andrew tate, you know, I'm pretty well from the manusphere Now who's bigger than manusphere for many years people on the internet are just not discovering him more widely But obviously, you know, you've probably seen the news articles There's all these news articles major headlines about little kids in elementary school and middle school That are talking about andrew tate and their teachers are freaking out and toxic masculinity in the manusphere, right? He's actually mainstreamed the manusphere to like eight-year-olds Incidentally or unintentionally in a way because of tiktok though But then what I think about immediately is like man is anyone paying attention to what your nine-year-old is looking at on tiktok? Why does he even have a phone or she or whatever? How many you know people in real life that have mentioned tate right from tiktok? Well, my son knows who he is but my son's generator turn 16 He has a phone. He has a it's what's called gab wireless. So we don't have internet on his phone And we have stuff set up on his computer as a Filters and all that stuff But I think this young man are talking about it when he gains or talking about him and what they No one asks the question Why do these people like andrew tate? Yep, so they this run. Oh, it's because He's a misogynist. Well Tate there's all like obviously he he runs up. He's into pornography like the the distribution of pornography Um through cam girls. Well, at least he did did that for a time. I I don't keep up I'm I'm against that. I think it's terrible But when he talks about kind of base Sexual nature, there's a lot of things he gets right that no one else is saying And these and these young men Are like, okay, finally someone's talking to me about this And so that's why it's he's taking off. He's taking off He also kind of exudes what people want to be. He's a kickboxing champion. He's in shape. He's Got status. He's bold. He's um, he's a quite the entertainer He's like kind of got a p.t. Barnum sort of miss about him a way to sell himself like a showman And he's really good at coming up with little quotes and You know, that's kind of so when I look at I might told you that I always thought tate was an honest grifter And I think he's trying to make money from his fame and generate attention all that but He is what he is. He doesn't hide what he is, you know, he's very straight up and I think um People that see a lot of fake masculinity and men that are Insecure and ashamed to see this bold Fit successful man out there in the open not hiding it is very Alluring to to young men. And so what I'd say, what are you gonna do about it? Well, you see you think you can just ban him from the internet Uh, you know, that's turning out to be much harder than they realize And to it certifies everything that he's said in a way at least to his fans It legitimizes him even more that he's a threat to the system. That's why he's being banned. He's not being banned for the most part because he's Whether he's a massage just whatever he's being banned because he's a threat to the feminist sort of structure of things And he's starting to inspire men To be more masculine now. It's going to be a twisted masculinity I think because it's not centered on god. It's not centered on on marriage on having children This is the thing I point out to anyone like You know, it's hard to be a patriarch without having children without raising up other sons like explain that to me You know, and that's what I would ask them Well, you say twisted masculinity but compared to what? I mean these these kids have been taught absolute nonsense surrounding masculinity that masculinity doesn't even exist There's 500 genders. You can be gender fluid. It's like It might I get what you're saying is in your view of godly masculinity That's very defined and it has a couple thousand years of history to it, right? But at least at least tape versus, you know, the matriarchy the sure quasi matric. We live and this is a lot more legitimate to these kids They get that, you know, so think of the way I would look at I think of it like a mathematical equation Like basically the left is saying one plus banana equals infinite It's like no, it's like nonsense categories And tape might be saying two plus three equals four At least we're talking in the right numbers and we're not as far off as people think they are um, and so what I think where we disagree Would be more on the proper channeling of masculinity and I know I've seen things He's posted before and things that his brother Tristan has said I know that men like this at some level understand That traditional masculinity which has a lot in common biblical masculinity is the only thing that produces stable societies And they they uh, you know, his dad was a chess champion. His dad seems like he was a pretty, um A successful man in his own right and they it seems like they come from that world and that's that set them up to Do some of the things they've done all that's attracted to young men and And these kids are listening and that's why like, you know, that's why I got involved in twitter years ago I hated twitter and I got involved in twitter because that's where the conversation is You know, I you've got involved in tiktok We're looking at it right now at our church and thinking what do we need to do about this, you know, uh We don't want to lose if we if we lose our young men. We lose everything. They're the future And I always tell people whoever controls the men controls everything in particular the young men rumors really struggle to get this they really struggle to understand how much the world has changed they have a sort of, um Uh, just get your act together sort of attitude towards younger men Where these other guys are like, here's what you do. You get your business. You get in shape. You do this. You get, you know These other guys are like offering these plans or whatever Are actually trying to encourage and inspire men to things and men want courage. They want to be inspired to something That's why years ago. I said, you know, I'm gonna get involved in the atmosphere Because I care about men these other guys Um, there's there's a mix of people some who legitimately care about men and others that are using it I want to be part of this. I think christianity has a lot to say about this. I think we I think our god Created masculinity. I believe that that's what the whole point of the book is It's good to be a man because on the sixth day god made man in his image Uh male and female he made them and then a couple verses down and then he said it is very good It's very good to be what god made you and I wanted to be involved in that conversation And it's been dicey at times Right, it's been it's for someone like me trying to navigate this and I have people I could show you screenshot after screenshot of people trying to bully me into not being involved or go to this conference Or whatever and trying every single Angle, but I'm like, you know what this is the marketplace of ideas Uh 21 summit is a TED talk for men and now for women. Um And and there's we all don't agree We some of us disagree very strongly some most are moral lined or whatever fathers fathers too. Don't forget patriarch. Obviously. Yeah, that's right fathers fathers men and and women so And uh, and so the idea is like, oh, it's just about pickup artistry. Well, I don't think you've watched the um evolution of both the man of spear and and 21 It's much broader than that now and there's guys that are looking to level up and And build something formidable. I wanted to have a say in that I wanted to be part of that And I wanted to be able to hear these guys giving us a chance to speak for themselves when I'm at these events I sit down and talk to the attendees and I sit down to some of the guys that do security and Some of these guys are in pickup artistry and I just ask them hard questions and they all give me real Not all but most of them give me really good thoughtful answers like they're willing to dialogue and have these conversations It's like, uh, you know last year. I had a real good time just talking to um, Alex Cortez and uh, Arthur Kwan Lee and And a tanner and and talking through our differences and worldview and finding that they all you know, Arthur and I are christians Presbyterians and uh, you know, um You got to meet Jeff younger too and use an orthodox Christian. Oh, yeah. And Jeff and I just Immensely enjoy talking to each other. He's a great guy. Um It's so being part of that And it's not everyone thinks it's like some big ecumenical Uh kumbaya No, we have no trouble disagreeing in arguing with everybody else. So it's a big means arguments every once while and I'm like, yeah But what a noise mean you get it though, but it's it's fake news They accuse there's a couple things they accuse the convention of pickup artistry is one of them It has a long history of pickup artistry and there's a little bit of that present But that's not really it's not even remotely accurate at this point Right to just whitewash the whole event like that. But also, uh But oh they accuse it of being a top-down event So they accuse it of being like the anthony johnson summit or the anthony johnson convention And this also is not accurate to me like I said with your book. The title is important. It's 21 summit Not the anthony johnson summit. It's 21 summit. It's 21 convention And what that means is it's heavily about the speakers. I pick you guys and that's important, obviously You don't tell us what to talk on like, right? That's right Like I'm like I told brian survey that I was like anthony is I going to tell you Just shoot for about 45 minutes talk about whatever you want make it fit the conference you're in go for it Take some questions. Yeah, if you're an audience, yeah, there you go Interact with them and there you are and I remember when I was first introduced To this conference by our old friend george And I and I wanted to run ideas by you and he's like you don't have to and You are you're mostly there directing the three conferences and moving in and From the conferences and there's a lot of Like someone was saying well, you're a chief patriarch so that means So that means you are You support everything. Well chief patriarch is a more like You're gonna em see this and you get to frame it more than most people Yes, but it's really just like means that you're you're trusted to frame it and um And introduce folks and and kind of build the event that way. It's not that I support everything in the whole summit like the only thing that like why would I not be in For talking about fatherhood and a lot of those guys. It's not from A deeply secular standpoint. It's more like let's talk about the legal side Let's talk about what happens after you lose your kid What do you do when someone's trying to steal your kid and and turn their plumbing inside out? Right like with jeff There's guys that are talking about uh aspirational fatherhood like tanner does a lot of that stuff. Um Has a benefit just like when I read uh business books They're not always christian business books. They're they're principles that transfer Um across across that and I interpret through a biblical worldview Um, you know, there's people I I you could pick up that I was not cool with jesse lee peterson And so the only guy I didn't introduce was I think jesse and elliott and that's because I someone else wanted to introduce elliott I did introduce elliott At something and I can't remember what though. Yeah, but I know you and jesse, uh, and you were right I mean your your gut instinct on that was completely right jesse was a predator the whole time And uh, it's a mess and I wish I had seen that sooner myself or spotted that sooner I mean, I guess it was difficult without I didn't have to do it You didn't you didn't you could tell that I wasn't cool. So you had someone else do it and it was awesome And so there's like that's that's what really is going down at these events. It's mostly Um, really interactive talks that don't go the way you think if you go through and piece it together at it here You know when you've got seriously, I don't know how many hours of content you have from 21 over the years A lot, but you know, it's like probably thousands or at least a thousand Um when you have that amount of content you can you can pick these little nooks and shanties But people never do that with my talks they have a hard time And they have a hard time finding a lot of other stuff because it is mostly positive masculinity Especially at patriarch Um where 21 is a little more riskier you're going to get a greater variety, but at patriarch It's less than and frankly at 22 With a few exceptions 22 is pretty positive for the most part You know, it's a little more confrontational But that's usually because of those the women that show up every once while there's always one or two That wants to pick a fight and then they foolishly pick a fight with coach greg And uh, but it does not go the way they think it's going to I I love he's become one of my favorite speakers I guess because he attracts that from these chicks. They do they just want to fight with them for some reason It's always like just the you know, the brattiest feminist too that is her friend dragger there Because there's a free ticket bring a friend free. I'll take a spring friend free 20 of studios.com But yeah, I love when he uh one woman fight with him This girl tried that with me too last year a little bit And because I'm the founder I really try to be nice to these these are my customers, right? I'm not I'm not like coach greg is he's not a he's not involved in the business side of it really obviously, right? This is a speaker same with you. So with me I try to I try to be like Deep breath anthony deep breath. Yeah. Yeah I will just say well If if you say that this means that and I'll say things like no Yeah, and then they'll expect me to argue with them like I have to validate with all their opinions as worthwhile Engaging that's why I'm on stage and you're not Yeah, I know what I'm talking about and uh, we can disagree but uh, frankly All the conversation off stage is very Very good stuff, you know and I want to make a point too that this what you're talking about The openness of the events and I don't tell you speakers what to talk about I definitely don't put limits on you. There's no, you know, you can't talk about that Michael because that's bullshit Like no, no, no, no, no, no that I hate that crap I would hate it for me as a speaker and I would hate it for me as a man and all that and as an entrepreneur And so I don't obviously I treat you guys the way I want to be treated especially if I was in your position But to me what people don't get about the man is fear is you were talking about earlier The minute you go against as a cult leader here or there they freak out the fans freak out they freak out they try to ostracize you purple pill blue pill blah, blah, blah, right And 21 summit is the opposite of that and to me it's that marketplace of ideas. It is super important and the The fluidness of that to operate smoothly like an engine is extremely important And anybody who threatens that or tries to there was a speaker recently I didn't even tell you about it But the speaker recently he had never spoken before but he was a big youtuber very big And he had wanted to speak and I invited him and then he tried twisting my arm with fresh and fit He wanted me to apologize to them basically and make peace with them publicly And you can imagine how this went over with me like no, no, no You're getting meme shrub down your butt buddy like So I haven't I haven't initiated an attack yet. I may I may not I don't have time right now Who cares maybe later? But anyway, it was it was the twisting of my arm last minute like the lie he accepted but last minute And I'm like no no no no no no because this is dangerous. It's poison. It's poison to me It's poison to you it it it introduces covert control over My public actions and speaker selection and stuff like that And that to me is like absolutely toxic and other speakers in the past like rollery have tried that They've tried kicking speakers out like tanner and a j cortez You know slyly behind the scenes Someone like you he would have hated, you know, oh no, I'm gonna drop out if you get him blah blah Yeah, yeah, I bet he will Anyway, I love the uh, yeah the freedom of it all. I'm glad you recognize that is very important I think brian will I'm sure he understands that now But he'll get that even more when he sees it like firsthand how this all operates And you say whatever you want it goes out on the internet, you know all that kind of stuff Yeah, people. I don't think people understand that like I just come I do my thing a talk Hang out like uh meet a lot of cool people arthur kwan li and I became a friend to that item at my recent event county for country um, but uh And it's it's been a good experience I go out and pray with people and talk to them. They ask really hard questions I do my best to answer them or say no that's that's hard. I need to think about it and It helps me stay connected with what's going on out there, you know I want to talk a little bit more about your book before we get into a hot seat a couple items So in your book you have a uh chapter called the war between patriarchy Can you talk to me about that section and what what that chapter? Yeah, yeah, so I uh, I thought when I told naan we write wrote this book Let's make this book Let's make it obvious from page one if someone has or hasn't read it And so people will say well patriarchy is good in all forms. That's what you guys say like I never said that first page I say there's such thing as a bad patriarchy. Look if a patriarch's fatherhood, right? Portrait so Are there bad dads? Are there bad men? Are there bad male rulers? Absolutely. So our point is that patriarchy is like gravity You can't it's part of the structure of life the cosmos Memor made the rule. That's why we do and you can you can kind of uh, you can't ever truly escape gravity You can manipulate it, but it's it's not it's neither here nor there. Okay So patriarchy is just part of things But the question is will it be a good patriarch or a bad patriarch? So in the bible satan is a father of lies So satan is a father of sorts fathers anyone that Has authority and especially produces progeny, you know children come from them So there are patriarchs They're evil. I would say part of our problem in our country is not that we're ran by women at the top We ran by women in the middle at the top or a bunch of terrible godless men That use women in the middle to try to suppress the men at the that are trying to come up So in the old testament Pharaoh He basically there's a pharaoh arises that doesn't know the Israelites when they're in Egypt at that time the Israelites have had lots of kids and that pharaoh is Intimidated by their numbers and scared that they'll overthrow and take control of Egypt So he sets up all these plans to try to weaken them right make them work really hard None of it works in the end He says I'll tell you what we're going to do is we're going to kill The firstborn sons of Israel now. How is he going to do that? He tries to use the Hebrew midwives He tries to use women just like satan used eve against adam But these turn out to be exceptionally good women They don't kill the firstborn, but it doesn't matter if they send people through the town Throw these firstborn sons into the river not firstborn daughters The firstborn sons That's who they kill and it's like that scene in the patriot with mel Gibson Where he teaches his sons when they're Ambushing the british to take out the officers first if you take out the officers the rest of the soldiers They get confused. They don't know what to do So that is the strategy of evil patriarchs is to take out any other young patriarch That threatens them to take out the men because they're the future leaders So you either convert them to your side But if they oppose you then they've got to go somehow get them into the porn Look what happened to Tate. I mean you had this rising young man. He's only 35 years old He's a bit he's a year older than me rising rising rising as a leader not subservient to feminism in the slightest He doesn't seem it's not able they're not able to buy him or coerce him into like the woke You know global homo narrative and so they took him out They had to because he was going to get other men to do that and uh, I think that's um You know People would say we're infecting young men with with evil patriarchy or not We're saying no be virtuous be good Live according to god's law believe the gospel But yeah be a man like have strength have power rule lead exercise authority So we wanted to talk. There's a battle. Look. I honestly, you know, I would say the way I perceive relative mossy It um from afar is that he falls into that evil patriarchy Um definition for me. He speaks a lot of truth But what I don't like about it is that he seems to want to capture young men Yeah, there he is Yeah, so it seems he he wants to keep and use. Oh my Is it full dvd said guys get it now amazon.com But he seems to want to have control over Over young men and that as opposed to inspiring lifting up I I agree 100 i hate rollo, uh with such a burning passion It's uh Very proud of it because I agree with you. He what he's promoting is toxic He's a fraud in every way you can name. He's illegitimate. He plagiarizes. He lies He gas lights these men constantly. He always talks about how he much has the values open debate open debate He runs from every debate that there is the two that he's done have been with uh, Stiff animal anew and he got owned and he never talks about it and dr Sean smith which caused a huge blow up from what I can tell between richard cooper and sean smith And rollo made his coercive, you know Demands to from what I can tell to kick sean off a rich cooper's channel about two years ago It was a very popular show. It was very popular in the manager. Say rollo is absolutely toxic. He's absolutely fraudulent What he promotes is very destructive for men and it's delusional and it's fake And it's toxic in every way we can we can investigate So so we want so we'll have when people say that you just think all fathers should be in control Like now there's bad dads out there. Yeah, there are bad men out there But the only thing that's going to stop bad men is good men Right like that's the only thing that's going to do it like this Look at this soccer teaser That is hilarious I'm doing hyper That actually reminds me of something jack donovan said last year Another speaker at 21 that we know author of the way of men And he basically said that people today men are just afraid to differentiate between right and wrong Moral judgments and what is true and what is false all the post modernist relatives crap But that also applies to people and that seems to be where a lot of beta men chicken out Like I love that about you that you're not like that. You're willing to drop names. Say names I agree with this person. I don't agree with this person. What he promotes is toxic evil and stupid I don't like it. You might not use the word stupid, but I do But anyway, you're a lot I had a sermon recently where I said One of those moments where you let I said, you know, um I know you guys don't like how I use the word stupid all the time But I'm not allowed to use the word retarded anymore because that's offensive. So I have to say stupid Yeah, yeah, good my way of saying retarded But I love that you have the you have the courage to speak the truth Including you know, just what's on your mind and including when it has other people involved And that is where a lot of men they totally peel back and all this alpha bivado I'm all familiar. I'm red pill. Oh, so who are you talking about? Oh, I don't want to drop names I don't want to I don't want to give them any clout. Blah blah blah blah blah They're cowards who think something is true and they since allegedly sincerely believe it But they won't let it come out of their mouth because they're scared they're chickens and you're not like that You believe it's true and then you say it. Oh, is this stupid? Good. He's beta. He's alpha. Whatever Shouldn't you're this is why I call you this is why I call you pure-blooded alpha male. You got courage trap But you were saying slander something Oh, well, it was like There's nothing more feminine than indirect speech Yeah In a man like men we we We speak with clarity concise punchy to the point We a guy that won't get to the point drives us all nuts like you got a point Is there a punch lines is going anywhere? We just like shooting the breeze like You know, they want guys that are going to say it and a man It's women that so guys Women destroy women with words That's not Through slander, right? They they they trashed their reputation We destroy an open combat. So which is either physical combat or straightforward debate Right. So women though are the ones that are sneaking around and in scripture. It's funny when when women are Called to holiness. They're constantly Warned about gossip do not be a malicious gossip And uh, so gossip is like just sharing little tidbits out of out of context that can destroy someone's reputation Slander is saying things that aren't true to destroy the reputation. You know, that's you see that so much Amongst a lot of these these men it's not how It's not my if it's not my business. I'm not going to talk about it. If it's my business and I'll Be straight or at least yeah. Yeah, I love that man I love it so much. You said a good example for men in the hemisphere and for men everywhere that Follow your content or watch you I wish more I wish more men would speak like you and think like you and act like you It's action. I think is what defines men more than anything, right? You know talk talk is pretty cheap, but actions are and this is you know, I think you've seen this with me like There's all these manusphere gurus that you know Talk all this trash and they're big all this bravado and this fakeness is This obsession with materialism and money and cars and bling bling money money dog It's like what what have you what have you actually built and physically with your hands and it's a lot of nothing Usually I've built a lot of events. I built over 20 in my life like 22 now and soon 23 Not even counting the three within that one event and it's really hard and You know for whatever it is a lot of people don't recognize that but I do and that's why I know when these guys That's how I see through them. It's like I've built stuff that's hard live events are not easy They're really hard It takes months and months of planning even a year or more And then it takes weeks and weeks of heavy logistics planning and moving Moving stuff around moving people around flights up tells and I saw you you had to bring 500 600 chairs And you're you had little kids carrying chairs around. It was crazy. It was wild It was it was a crazy event our ac broke our ac broke during the event and people still were happy I was like they're sweating, but they're smiling. Uh, it won't happen next year, but uh, yeah, it was pretty wild It was a good time But yeah, that's in our church, you know, uh, we always say we're a church of doers And just you know come here build things get things done We're always in the in the middle of business ventures and all sorts of things going on. But yeah Good stuff So before we move on to the hot seat real quick, uh, tell me a little bit more about the event itself I mean this focuses on something you call localism Which I've not seen anyone else promote before you and the actual night the title of it's on your shirt county before country Which I love man I love that it's my line. It's so easy and it makes a lot of sense and it's instant. You get it so, um So our church a lot of people ended up in our church as refugees. They're basically being persecuted Varying uh, the lead up to the 2020 election. So anyone that supported trump just Was a racist terrible fascist or whatever And these churches were saying you shouldn't have a political opinion or you should keep it to yourself And then they clearly were acting like it was wrong to support maga and all that and um In the these churches were going incredibly woke So a lot of people that ended up at east river church where I passed her early on We're kind of from that from that world but What I noticed is when trump lost the election Uh through whatever means allegedly allegedly, right? Um, and then especially with january 6 not being This messianic moment. They had hoped it would be So a lot of people losing hope and before that I was just talking to him like No, we need to do We need to go local because the reality is We can't control a lot of these things happening at a federal level And so I don't I don't follow the news almost at all I hear the queen died I care about as much as ukraine and before the ukraine I cared about that as about as much as whatever variant we're on at that point Why is it because I don't care about people over the ukraine? No, it's a war is terrible. What what can I do? I could say a prayer and that's it Uh, do I care that the queen died? I'm an american. I thought we fought a war so we didn't so we didn't have to care You know, are you telling me you're not going to put a ukrainian flag in your twitter profile pic? None at all. I just don't I don't care to me. It's a it's a distraction It's like to keep the masses from actually making anything And so I said look let's put our our county before our country Because if our country falls and breaks down It's going to be us right here in our community that looks after ourselves And this is where we can start to get involved in our local village council Our city council our county commissioners our zoning here We can shoot down bad taxes do what we can to bring in good companies. We can start businesses here We can create a community that depends on itself We can start to build a little bit of a sanctuary county for sanity for sane people And we started doing that. We've got you know, one of my pastors is on village council Um, we're we're involved. We this I'm in zeal collective right now on main street one of my Deacon candidates started this business after county before country last year um So we're we're deeply involved in our community. Do you have anyone on the school board yet? Not yet, but we um, we have some family members Related to some of our key church members that we we all supported They weren't I don't really know where they fall. Some of these people fall religiously politically though, we're aligned Um, where they're they're shutting down things that are schools So we got two of those people elected last year Cool And so we look for uh folks that you know, we'll put homes we'll put homeschoolers on the school board And just shut things down You got to be weird with schools that out here in conservative land A lot of these people played on those football teams When they're kids and these schools aren't all as woke as you would think they are and there's just a lot of affection So the community can take it as an attack on their tradition. So you got to be really wise how you do that You know fighting i'm a fighting tiger from morseburg, indiana You know and you go to those friday night football games and small rural communities and guys come out Wave that like was on the state team 30 years ago and it's still a big deal to them So that that'll that'll be perceived as an attack if you're not careful But the main thing is you get to know your neighbors your neighbors don't care about labels Your neighbors want queen streets safe streets. They want affordable living All your neighbors will come to your neighborhood barbecue if you know, they like you you want you can have real conversations And change people's views much quicker In a real life scenario in a local scenario where online people just size you up real quick and they make decisions and they They dig in really hard. That's not how it plays out in real life. What's your neighbors? So this is also why alpha males need to buy tickets to 21 summit because real life face to face conversations They change things real fast I know I know guys that talk to you and other speakers socrates jeff younger, you know, whoever whatever coach They get so much out of talk on you for like five minutes or a half hour or lunch or dinner or whatever And it's hard to communicate that on the internet But in person I see it and I feel it and I hear it from these guys from you guys from the attendees You probably resonate with this I refuse to stream our conference ever. I'm not going to The reason I'm not going to We we do post it later Several weeks after the event we start posting Each talk Partially because we're we just it takes us a while to get to it The other reason is What our event is not just the speakers, but it's the networking that happens around it the friendship building And I try to network my speakers together and I also try to network The people that come and participate the attendees And I never want to make it people think that this is just about hearing the speakers so we had um, so we're always You know, it's the network is relationship at at 21 You know a lot of us we're away from our we're not from Orlando What are we gonna do go back to our room? Why not just hang out with all these people? And so what happens is all the speakers hang out And and you hang out with attendees. It's like There's no pass or anything. We're just around there And so yeah, let's go sit. Let's go out to the bar. You want to go grab lunch And sit and talk and you get then you have people That are talking you through your life situations. I could think one year or this is young guy that He he definitely married outside of his Range he had a very attractive wife and he himself was very weak And I it was amazing to me how many speakers were like legitimately concerned for his marriage You know, I would be surprised if they're divorced by now. I don't know what happened But um, he was definitely an Elliott fan and I think he got to talk to Elliott a little bit But a lot of us were just like sitting him down trying to Help him see just how dire a situation was and how in trouble his marriage was I mean, where's that guy going to get those sort of people? Pouring into him like that, especially if he's not part of a healthy church Exactly. That's out of a church. It's super rare I so I think I think events where you get to know your speakers So my thing is like if I pay you to I I'll pay you pretty well to come And I'll take good care of you. I'll put you up in the best airbnb. There'll be food All our speakers got a gift basket had bourbon all sorts of stuff in it Um, we'll take good care of you, but I expect you to be around and hang out with our people Yeah, you know, I want them to have access to you because it's not just your um oratory that I'm after It's your actual wisdom experience. Yes. And so people always recommend speakers to me that are like this talkers I don't need those people There's people are a dime a dozen like I Invited Arthur Kwan Lee because he's actually He's not just an instagram artist. He's won awards and he's had showing. He's been in that world He's done it. He knows what it takes to become a professional artist. I want someone that's done it at a local level I want someone that has actually built businesses. I had Andrew Krapischette started a multi-million dollar Corporation in emsy. He was it's the founder of one of the founding members. He's actually built businesses and sold businesses. He's Invested I want folks that actually can tell us how to do it not guys that just talk about it Yeah, and so that's what we did at county before country. We had 500 plus people show up We had a bunch of different speakers Arthur Kwan Lee was one guy that's kind of connects between our two Two events and uh, Doug Wilson was there It was amazing, man It was um, it was crazy to see this synergy people are hungry for community people want to know how to get involved People want to take their country back. I'm very jealous. You have Doug Wilson. He's my number one pick for patriarch next year I think he needs to be there. He seems like a super good fit. He's amazing. He's uh, he's an amazing man But I love Arthur too. I'm glad he was there Arthur to me is a warrior and he's a savage In addition to everything you said about building stuff in real life And you know winning awards and doing things out in the real world But he really cares about what he believes in it's not just some like you're saying the oratory This polished, you know, almost politician like speak Arthur is serious about these things That's what he respects about me too is in the exact same way And I love getting speakers like that at 21 And what I don't like what drives me up the wall are these divas who try to come in like there's some big shot And then they roll out as soon as they can and they don't give crap about the attendees or the other speakers That annoys me to no end and that's the fastest way to not get invited back You're some diva. You think you're some hot shot You know, never mind you have a quarter of the fans that my company does like you're delusional But uh, it's just you see that Arthur put on a judo or jiu-jitsu game was wrestling with Like at at the end of her conference They found out that he did jiu-jitsu. So some of the other people I brought their keys up and they all got dressed up and had They started doing some rolling inside my judge. That's fine. It's actually it's out on uh, I think um, a guy put it out on instagram It's pretty funny. Cool. So you gotta go hot seat. All right All right, I gotta go. Let's find out what this is hot seat number one your thoughts on the black pill The black pill is like a wing of the man is here. It's pretty small but growing Yeah, so my knowledge about the black pill is almost entirely through tony bruno And I still don't fully understand it. I don't understand how the black pill is totally different from mctau um, so my opinion is That they have a lot of Good critiques of what's wrong with things Uh, but I haven't heard compelling solutions to how to deal with those things. So that's where I'm at on the black pill right now Okay How about the red pill or the remnants of it still, you know popular in the manuscript Roller is a good one, but some of the people around him too the red pill is a semester at college not a four-year degree And it sets you up its basic principles that help you understand the nature of intersexual Dynamics to a certain degree Most of it's true But when you turn it into ordering principle for all life like hypergamy It's like it's hypergamy all the way down with some of those guys. That's all there is So I think it's uh, some of that early content still really helpful to understand You know why people select who they select in terms of being lovers or getting married or whatever um But Again, it's just a doorway into a bigger world We'll put What are your thoughts on astrology? What's your sign this kind of woo woo stuff you see on twitter and around the manosphere sometimes I know you I've heard you comment about some other people smaller youtubers say this stuff Sure. I always tell people that Well, when people ask me my sign, I'll say like velocity raptor or something I'll say that's not a sign. That's I was like, yeah, they don't matter Astrology This is stupid, man. I I don't buy it. I don't think that I okay. I think the stars matter. I think they I don't know what to say Anthony it's kind of gay like like what's your what's your what's your chakra? I don't even uh, I think I don't even know that is Yeah, like soy Latte is that what that is a chakra? I don't probably yeah When I look at astrology It's hilarious to me when you when you hear them predict things like that is so vague How is this different from when those guys are kind of fishing for details? When they're contacting the dead like I feel like there's there's someone in this room right now that Someone here recently have someone that they love died. Yeah, my dad died three years ago Well, suddenly three years ago is recently like it's so today you you're gonna have a money breakthrough or a relationship breakthrough when you read these horoscopes and Of course, everyone's worried about money. It's all just it's just a bunch of nothing that makes people without control feel and control Okay, uh next question. What are your thoughts on catholicism and catholics? Uh Fundamentally in theology Any other way you want to kind of angle it catholic roman catholics and Protestants what we share in common Is we both believe the bible is the word of god We both believe in the same god a trinitarian god god the father god the son god the holy spirit We both believe in the necessity of a church Where we disagree is on the nature of salvation How is a man a sinful man made right with god? And so we we disagree there. We disagree on some aspects of how you are to worship god Uh, so I see catholics like one of my favorite writers is tony esslin He's a roman catholic and then there's e michael jones who's uh had influence on me He's a little more on the extreme side But I see roman catholics as co belligerence, but we we have a significant disagreement On the nature of salvation so much so that it puts it at odds They say people like me that believe in justification by faith are cursed or anathema so So yeah, that's uh, it puts a damper on our relations. Are you are you a heretic by roman catholic standards? I am I am I am by by the council of trend And so so I if they if they'll repudiate the council of trend we might be able to work something out, but until then It's not me. It's you Do you uh, do you find that you get along? Theologically better with orthodox christians or catholics It can be about the same. I would say um, I the differences between Protestants and orthodox are very similar Uh, uh, orthodox christianity is deeply influenced by platonism or neoplatonism um Even what they mean by sanctification. So I believe I believe scripture teaches that I In being restored to the original design where there's something much more like You are becoming more godlike like like you're changing your your nature is being elevated to some new state What's that word there's a word for you something? um Uh, uh the theosis I have to get how you say it. I was jeff and jeff and tanner We're talking about it last year because mormons have something like this too Well that that is interesting that mormons and orthodoxy have something in common there. Um, but We were talking about it on the red magrup last year. So I disagree with that. Um, And that's a significant disagreement. Uh orthodoxy is a very strange uh Sect of christianity they course don't think they're a sect they think through the original and Everyone should come back to mother church and yeah orthodox is what original and catholic is universal I think of this is the fundamental meaning Well, it goes back to a huge schism that split the eastern church from the western church a great schism what I think 1054 and so And and that led to just a really different pathway for The shape the shaping of their theology So you went to school for theology as well. Are you the masters? I believe in theology or something like that So I have the equivalent of a master's I got to finish seven hours For my effort to be officially a masters. So I went to it's a it's a bth That's a ma equivalent. So once I finished my science course over at nkq One other course it will be there. So I went to greenville Presbyterian theological seminar. Okay. Yeah, so kibru and systematic some stuff there. So, yeah My question from it though is were you influenced during that schooling or afterwards or at any point? By st. Thomas Aquinas Catholic, sir. I had to I had to actually I've got a great book studying st. Thomas Aquinas at home and so, yeah, uh, Aquinas is He's a little different in some of his ways. He comes at A philosophical categories than I am but he's he's a genius. He's a He's a great he was uh, iron rand's favorite christian I bet I bet so he's a wrist atelian in his categories and the way he approaches things Very similar to her her approach in objectingism So, uh, what are your views on feminist christians and feminist conservatives politically speaking if you can combine those two What are your views are on them? Yeah, so it depends like I I I respect honest feminists Um, where I don't know how you can be a honest feminist christian The scripture is so antithetical to feminism. There's no way to reconcile them For example, it says a woman may not exercise authority over a man This is about as clear as could be in um, first timothy that women can't be pastors and feminists want to say there's no real distinction between male and female that they're interchangeable and scripture rejects that and I would also say that feminism has a basic disregard for women's place being Headquartered in the home Men are to be out in the fields. So to speak working on their vocations and women their vocation is the home raising children Supporting your husband and then out of that they start businesses and expand the house the household That's what you see in proverbs 31 so feminism and christianity are eternally at odds and christianity will win Do you see a relationship or a parallel between what you just said here with feminist christianity And feminism prevalent in conservatism today, whether it's overt or even covert You have these women who say they're proud conservatives, but a lot of what they preach is like That sounds like feminism from the late 90s like overtly, you know what I mean Conservatives conserve the last liberal victor victory. Excuse me conservatives conserve the last liberal victory Right conservatives don't have a compelling worldview Not not really in the american political realm at all. And so, you know, what's conservative on fox today was liberal, uh, you know, just 10 years ago And so yeah, I just think they're Uh, they're basically the larve larve form of liberals, you know, they really Why in the world is bruce Jenner or k1 Jenner or whatever on fox. That's insane Dude, I have seen I've seen a news crew from fox news chase bruce Jenner around at cpaq in texas Like literally follow him or whatever around like a puppy like a bunch of little puppies. Yeah, it's sick It's really what about daily wire Jordan Peterson gets on there and what's his first official thing he does on? kind of the The difficulties and promise of gay parenting on daily wire You know, I didn't even know that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Go look at that. It's him and dav rubin on that and so Of course, of course. I was just gonna mention dav rubin. There we go. Yep. And so, yeah, these guys are They they don't have a compelling worldview. They haven't thought about it. I I don't think they're all grifters. I don't want to say that with everything but some of them are just chasing, you know, um Chasing clout trying to build a catch, you know, say, well, look we're conservative But we're not that mean type, right? And I see that in the church a lot Well, look We're uh, we believe that men are the leaders, but there's there to be a gentleman and they're to You know, be soft and always loving to be servant leaders is what we're supposed to be. I'm like, hey, man I'm a patriarch. We're supposed to rule. We're supposed to do it in a virtue of Virtuous way But I'm not really interested in trying to convince you that I'm the nicest guy in the room and Anything like that, you know, I don't want to be a jerk But it's just a way to sell to get more subscriptions and to get higher adoption and not to Uh confront actual worldviews and call it what it is, which is poison Yeah, a woman last question, uh, what is your view or the biblical view on predatory christian religious leaders obviously in catholicism, there's a history of pedophile priests and Protestant christian or whatever the wider christianity you have like predator pastors like jesse lee peterson I meant, he's not the only one there's many others and then you even have like the mega churches Where they need, you know, jesus said I need my fifth private jet and you need to give me money for it So you have like this variety of predatory religious leaders I'm just focusing christianity obviously goes beyond that But what's your view on them and what is the biblical view on them? Jesus says it will be better for you to have your Millstone tied around your neck and thrown into the sea than to cause any of these little ones to stumble in other words any leader that takes advantage of people that are Younger Impressionable children or just naive new believers be way better for their feet to be stuck into barrels filled with concrete and sink them to the bottom of the ocean Christ has no patience for that christ also says that fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven Rather would be thrown into the lake of fire will be destroyed and these guys These sort of pastors that take advantage of people in need. These are evil men These are men that deserve to be called out. They deserve to be prosecuted They deserve to be banned from the ministry forever and if they're true pedophiles, they deserve to be put to death That's exactly what scripture teaches For those that take advantage of people monetarily That is the number one mark of a false teacher in the new testament that these are guys That are trying to flatter you to get money from you. They're telling you what you want to hear So they can use you they are not shepherds. They're just there as a hired man To fleece the flock to take the wool from the flock. They're they're users and abusers And they all need to be called out and in scripture Paul says warns about alexander the coppersmith who caused me much trouble. He warns about Theotrophies he names names because people need to be Warned people need to be warned jesse lee peterson is a heretic. He's been a heretic for a long time it's not surprising to me that someone whose doctrine is heterodox is also Also has practice that is at odds with scripture. They usually go hand in hand. He's a rampant sinner In my view crazy. It's crazy and he calls it good It's it's one thing to know you're Surrendered to evil It's another thing to get people to call evil good and that's exactly what men like him do Yeah, he's presented his sinful, you know backwards life as this as a christian church is what he's presented at or ministry right He's talked men into oral sex and stuff like that and somehow say this is like a spiritual duty No, this is wicked and evil and vile and gross and disgusting He should be ashamed of it and those that he led into it led into it Are right to get as far from as possible You know a lot of those guys stepped out and said things. I appreciate the boldness It's very hard to admit those things publicly But a lot of these guys have real power, you know, like the feminists aren't wrong about everything. There are a lot of People in any institution that uses that power You know, it's like think of these pastors that use that power to sexually abuse Hurting people. Well, what about all these? We think it's all hot. What about all these older? um teachers in public schools That are talking like 12 year old 14 year old boys and having sex That's predatory and so when you get into these institutions where you're Have a lot of vulnerable people and you have inside information and power over them A lot of abuse does happen and feminists aren't wrong about that There the problem is they think you can just remove authority. You can't you remove the abusers of authority and put people that'll actually Be responsible and use their authority in a way that's good and moral and glorifies god Okay, Michael. I appreciate your time. It's been an amazing episode of the red man group. Appreciate you coming back on Everybody buys book book now amazon.com. It's good to be a man. It's good to be an alpha male title of the show today I stole from your book obviously get his book and leave a review to five stars, of course In fact, put seven stars if you can you probably can't but maybe you can And uh follow him on twitter and you can also meet him, of course at 21 summit link in the description Get tickets bring a friend free through the end of the month that bonus offer is ending soon And there's an early bird sale too. You can save on the ticket regular vip whatever you want Michael, I'll see you soon. Appreciate your time today. Peace out and I'll see you. We'll talk soon God bless everybody else