 Okay, the recording is on. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for connecting to BC309, our class on urban church planting. And today is the second lecture this week on urban church planting. We're going to pick up from where we paused yesterday and go forward. All right, let's take a moment to pray together. Before we get started, can I request somebody to pray? Is my audio okay? Can you all hear me all right? Okay, thank you. Thank you. Somebody can pray and then we will start. Anybody can lead us in prayer? Our Father and our God, we want to thank you. We want to bless your name. We want to give you thanks for another opportunity and another privilege to be here and to study your word. Through this spirit, we pray that you will open our ears and open our minds to hear the Word of God and open our hearts to receive the Word of God. Commit every soul and everyone that is in this place. And we ask Lord that you will teach us what we need to know that your name alone will be glorified in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Congressman. And once again, good morning. Welcome, everybody. We've been talking about urban church planting and just looking at different aspects of this whole process. We are currently in that stage where we've been talking about strategy for urban evangelism or urban mission. What are some things we can do and what are some ways in which we can reach out, evangelize, engage in mission when we are planting a church. And of course, this is not restricted only to a church, but even if you're doing some other kind of ministry, you want to reach out to people. And what are some ways we can do that? So we talked about several different ways and then we moved into talking about the seven-mountain assignment. Now, when I'm explaining or sharing with you about the seven-mountain assignment, I do want to make it clear that we're basically talking about fulfilling the Great Commission, but in a strategic way by affecting the seven spheres of society, the seven different spheres of society, by very strategically affecting that, by mobilizing God's people to affect that so that the gospel can be brought in and then people can be saved and discipled. What I do want to say is that, as the question was asked last class, there is an aberration or a pushing of this idea beyond its intended expression where you might hear people say, you know, the church has to take over every part of society and it has to be controlling every sphere and all of that. So that's an aberration, meaning it's not what Jesus commanded us to do. He told us to go make disciples of all nations. That's our present calling or our commission, which is to go and disciple people about, you know, when the Lord comes in the millennium, we're talking about the relations of the 20, when he comes, when he sets up his kingdom here on earth, when Jesus is carrying out his thousand year reign on the earth, that's a different thing where he will establish his kingdom. So that's a literal expression of his kingdom. Right now we're talking about discipling the spheres of society and how do we do that. So that's the focus and that's where we want to stay. We don't want to kind of go off and on the tangent outside of what it was originally intended. So this quickly review and we will complete a particular lesson on the seven mountains. This is lesson number 13. Just quick review. We said that there are the seven spheres or seven pillars of the seven main areas of society. If you want to look at it in a very broad way, we can talk about the family, religion, education, media, arts and entertainment, business and government, seven areas. And so what we're saying is the people of God, God's people, believers, us people, we need to be involved in all of these seven areas so that we can transform culture. So the first step is transform culture. That means we challenge the norm, the way people are thinking. We challenge culture or we transform culture so that the hearts of the people can be prepared to receive the gospel. Then when the gospel is brought to them, some of them will believe, be saved and they can be discipled. So our goal here is how can believers transform culture in these seven spheres or seven areas? We said one way we model the biblical principle, we live it out there and before then we let our light shine with the works that we do, what we do. And of course there is the spiritual side of it. That means we engage with prayer and intercession and the bringing of the gospel. But in order for that to happen, we have to prepare the church, prepare believers. So what are the three areas to prepare believers in? We said heart preparation. So we have to be strong in fact. We have to be able to guard our desires, guard our motivations and guard our character. We also said there's spiritual preparation. So that means believers need to know, okay, what are the biblical principles that I'm supposed to be applying in my sphere, whichever area they're involved in? So they need to be taught that. You need to see it in the Bible. You need to see it in God's Word. And also we need to encourage believers to tap into spiritual resources. That means don't try to do this all by yourself. The Holy Spirit is there to help you. It depends on the anointing of the Holy Spirit. It depends on faith in God and so on. It depends on God really. And of course there is the natural preparation which is each person has to be good in their work. They have to continuously learn, develop their skills, capabilities, whichever area they are engaged in. So that's how we encourage believers to prepare. So last part of this whole lesson here is positioning. You know, the traditional mindset in the church is to come out, come away. You see, the Bible tells us, it's very interesting if you look at the paradoxes in scripture. That means, when we say paradox, it means we are like two opposite statements, but both statements are true. So for example, on the one hand, God said, come out and be separate. And this is the second Corinthians chapter 6. I think it's verse 18 or something. God says, come out and be separate. And the meaning of the word church is ecclesia, a people who have been called out to assemble together. They are called out people. And yet, on the other hand, God also says, and I'm quoting what Jesus said in Luke 1913, he says, occupy till I come. So one hand, he says, come out. On the other hand, he thinks, stay there. Now it's almost like opposite contradictory. He says, come out, but stay there. Occupy. Both are correct. Both are true. And they have an application. They have a context. So come out, meaning don't engage with the evil, the sin, the wickedness. Occupy. Be there. That means you need to be there in and amongst the people so that we can be salt and light and have influence. So both are true. Both have a context. So traditionally, you know, the church has emphasized, come out, be separate. But we also need to encourage people. Occupy. Be in there. Be amongst the people so that we can be salt and light. So occupy. That means take up your place and be where God wants you to be and position yourself there so that you can make a difference. Now, when we're talking about occupy or taking your place, there can be so many positions. You know, so many different roles that people can play in the seventh sphere. Not everybody is going to become a CEO. Not everybody is going to become the owner of a business. Not everybody is going to be, you know, like the prime minister or the president. No. There are going to be so many different places that need to be filled or positions to be held there. We can have influence. And so that's another important thing to let people know. And, you know, not everybody is going to be at the top and we need people at all levels. So there may be people that God raises up to be transformers like leaders like Joseph and Daniel. There may be people who are just influential. They are, they may not be the leaders, but they're in a place of influence. You know, think about Esther. She came into a place where she could influence the king. Think about Naaman's men. She was in that place where she could influence the Syrian general. So we could have people who are influencers. They may be quiet there, but they can have influence on others. People, they could be people who have access like Nehemiah. He was a cup bearer, but he had access to the king. And because of God's favor on his life, he had access to many resources. You know, when Nehemiah told the king, I want to go and I want to, you know, my heart to rebuild the walls of the city of Jerusalem. The king said, go, I'll give you, you can go, take leave. I will send you an escort. I'll send people to take you there. Whatever you need, I will make it available. So God positioned Nehemiah as an accessor. He was able to bring these resources in to carry out the purpose of God. So like that, God may position people who have access and they are able to bring in provision for the work of God's kingdom. There may be people who are, you know, I just made up these terms. They're not anything technical, but you know, there are people who may be on more than one mountain like Moses or Paul. You know, they touch people in different spheres. So Paul was a preacher, but he was able to touch people in authority. He was able to speak to religious people. He was also able to speak to, you know, ordinary people outside in the marketplace. So he was, you know, he moved in different spheres, touching people in different spheres. Moses himself in the Old Testament. Yeah, of course, he was a great leader, but he was able to stand before Pharaoh. He was able to lead his people. He also mobilized his people to go into battle under the leadership of Joshua. So he influenced the priests. He brought in the law, the priesthood, so on. So he stood in many different roles, and he worked across various areas. So God may use his people in different ways. Some people can be transitors. They could be, you know, on the cutting edge, they could be in a way to create, to come up with new ideas and where others begin to follow the trends they set. Some people could be catalysts. They can, you know, cause things to happen. And while they themselves may not necessarily be the main leaders, they are the people who stir things up. They cause things, cause change to happen. So, you know, the point is, as we equip and mobilize God's people, we encourage them, you know, take whatever position, wherever God places you. You know, it could be at the grassroots level. It could be at the mid-level. It could be at the senior level, or it could be at the top level. Wherever God places you, take your place, occupy, be there. And in that place where God puts you, begin to transform the culture, begin to demonstrate the principles of the kingdom, let your work point people to God, and of course have spiritual influence, such as you pray, how you want to see, and you bring in the gospel to those areas so that then they can begin to influence. Now, just try to imagine if we are able to do this, you know, how beautiful it will be. And other people, when I say other people, believers, can begin to touch people outside at all levels in all of these seven spheres. So, what I think it all begins with a change in mindset by telling people you can be there, occupy. You know, other people are always sitting, come out, come out, come out, be separate, come out, be separate, come out, be separate. But how about we tell them, take your place. You know, in media, take your place. In arts, in entertainment, take your place. In government, if God wants you there, take your place. In education, if God wants you there, wherever God wants you, take your place and begin to make a difference. So that's this whole part about the seven mountains and how we can intentionally move people in those areas. Now, remember, all this takes time. You know, it's not going to happen overnight. It's not going to be done in a week. It's going to be constantly giving input to the believers so that they can begin to make a difference wherever God has placed them. Okay. So, before we go to the next chapter or next lesson, let me pause. Any questions? Any thoughts on the seven mountains? Was it clear? Did we all understand it? Was it clear what our intent is and what our objectives are? Any questions? Christopher, go ahead. Yes, Pastor. I just, something that I think would, you know, an observation basically where in each of the seven mountains where the leadership team is of a certain, you know, religion. And for example, our government where it is predominantly of all certain religions or, you know, maybe a Christian state, for example, it definitely helps, I think, you know, to facilitate this spread of religion and its, you know, and the tenets of religion in that particular mountain. So, I mean, just an observation, I just think that, you know, it definitely helps and just maybe you could share some light on that also, please. Yeah. You know, being at the top, we definitely have a lot of influence. But then we also have to be very careful. You know, for example, if a believer is a chief minister, and this is a government, if a believer is a chief minister or the prime minister, the head of a state or head of government. Now, definitely he has great influence. He or she will have great influence. But the challenge is they also have to serve all of the people. Yeah, they can't just serve or they can't give preferential treatment to people of a particular religion. I'm talking especially about a democratic government. Of course, it is different in a religious state. There is a state religion and that's a different situation. But in a democratic setting, the leader, you know, he definitely will have influence. And he definitely will be able to, you know, to show that, look, I am an example. I'm a Christian. I am a Christian on the field. But he is also, he's an elected leader, which means he has to represent all communities, all religions fairly and equally. So it's a very challenging, actually it's a very challenging situation. For me, I have the privilege of, you know, just knowing one leader or the chief minister and, you know, have the opportunity of spending time with him. And these are one of the questions that we discussed, which is, okay, he's a chief minister and he's a believer. But in our country, majority are non-Christians, you know, and they have elected him basically. It's not because the Christian population is very small. We can't say the Christians elected him. No, he's the chief minister. But the majority who elected him are non-Christians and he's the chief minister. And he has to represent. So for example, here's the challenge. He's a believer, but the Hindus will invite him to inaugurate maybe a temple. The Muslims will invite him to inaugurate, you know, or just to come to some more fair functions. Now, he's a believer. People know he's a Christian. But when he is serving as in the government capacity, he has to treat everybody equally. He has to go for, you know, these functions that are from the Hindus. He has to go for the Muslims. He has to go for the Christians. He can't just say, I'll only go for the Christians. Christians are a minority. So it's a big challenge. Now, the sad thing is the Christians will accuse him. So you're a Christian. Why are you going for the Muslim? No, he's going there, not as a Christian. He's going there as an elected chief minister, as a chief minister, representing everybody in the state. You know, so we've had these conversations and I encourage them. I said, see, you are representing everybody. You're not representing just the Christians. You're representing everybody. So you've got to treat everybody equally. You go, you show that you care for everybody equally. All the programs are available for everybody equally. So the doctor's question, yes. When people are in places of authority or leadership at the top, there is great influence. But the challenges or the responsibilities are great, especially when you have to represent everybody. You know, so nobody becomes the CEO of a company because they're Christians. You know, they become CEO of a company because they put in their work and they are going to further the purpose of the organization and they're going to represent everybody in the organization equally. And yes, they have to be Christian in that. So that's, I think, it's a big challenge, something a lot of thought has to be given to it. And we have to be careful not to do things that actually prevent people from being open to the gospel because they know we are Christians in that place of leadership. So I hope I've said a few thoughts on that. Is it useful? I don't know if you have further questions. Okay, I have this question. Pastor can explain the last one again, catalyst at any level, please, with example. Okay, yeah, so catalyst simply means a change agent, right? So at any level, if you are able to bring change, that's a great tip. So, for example, take, for example, a school teacher. A school teacher can be a catalyst. Bring about a change. So a change for the good, for the benefit of people. So examples, and especially in current scenarios, let's say a teacher, just for example, is in the nursery section or let's say in grade one to five or just for example, there's a teacher there. And she observed that, you know, students in grade one to five have a certain need, but nothing is being done to address that. Everything is going in one direction, but a very important need is not being addressed. But what can this teacher do? A catalyst, that means the teacher can present to the people in authority saying, hey, look, we need to change. We need to make some changes in order to address this need. And, you know, you present it to, and so what happens? You're a catalyst. You bring about a change and a particular need is addressed. And so just one example. And then through that, you know, we can point, you know, okay, how did you get this idea? Or what did you do? That can give glory to God. It can point people to our Heavenly Father because they see our good works and they will glorify our Father who's in heaven. So catalyst is simply a change agent. It could be a simple thing as addressing, changing, you know, what is being done in order to address a need. And of course there could be some more dramatic changes that could take place. Is that okay? All right. Any other questions on the seven mountains and how we can mobilize the church to do that? So, you know, as when we are pioneering our work in a city, we need to look for these opportunities and pray that God will give us opportunities. Remember, the city is dynamic. Meaning things are always changing, constantly changing in the city. So sometimes things that worked five years ago or the approaches and the methods we took five years ago may no longer be relevant today. And so what do we do? We have to change. It's okay. You know, God give us strategies. How are we going to affect this community? How are we going to affect that sphere of influence? One year ago we did it like this. But now things have changed. That whole sphere, the dynamics in that sphere of that particular mountain has changed. So now we may have to rethink our strategy. We may have to come up with new ways of how to influence that particular sphere. You know, whether it's media or art, entertainment, education, so on. We rethink that. And so we do it. You know, I remember, I think this is again, of course, before the pandemic, we were able to a limited extent get access into a management school, management college, starting here in our city. And we were able to place one of our books. We have a book that's called Timeless Principle. We were able to place copies of that book for the management students. And we were even able to do some lectures in that college using some of these lessons from our chapters from that book. So that was an opportunity that we had. Of course, all these college students, maybe 80% of them are non-Christian backgrounds. And so it was a wonderful opportunity. And one of the reasons we were able to do it was because there was somebody in that college who was very well connected with us. I mean, that person was like championing our cause in that college. But now things have changed. We don't have that opportunity. And of course, you know, because of this due to another period and a lot of things were closed, everything died down. So now we have to rethink in how do we, how can we, you know, gain entrance into various places in our city as things begin to open up? How can we go back there? How can we begin to influence this? Yeah. What are some things we can do? So for example, recently we did a sermon series in church on the forces of leadership. And of course, it was, the series was done for people in our congregation, for people's believers. We talked about the forces of leadership. But the response from quite a number of people was, hey, all of these things that we are learning in church are so useful for us in our professional work. And so how can we share this in our, you know, in our professional, in our company, in our corporate place? So one of them, one of the young people, young man, he actually, so we did a little graphic. So he actually started sharing through that thing. Hey, this is what I'm learning about. It's very simple. This foresees about character, competence, compassion and charisma. Very simple. And under that we have seven attributes for each. He started sharing this with his people in his company. And just to pick that interest and let them know that, you know, it can be a connect back to the church. Now, this is, he is working in an corporate, IT corporate setting. So he's connecting back, connecting them back to it. If somebody else came up with the idea that, you know, if you, if we can create some small table placeholders, some of them we just keep on our desk, which says, you know, foresees of leadership have these four boxes and a link to the website where if they're interested, they can just scan the QR code or something, just go to the website and they will get, you know, they can listen to the messages of what to take the sermon notes and so on. So they said, you know, if you can do this, you just keep it on our desk or wherever we are, you know, in the workplace. And it becomes a conversation starter. So somebody comes in and I say, what is that? What are the foresees of leadership? Then they start a conversation. Oh, you know, this is something we were just, you know, learning about. It's very simple but very powerful on what makes good leaders. We were learning this in church. If you're interested, you know, just scan the code, we'll go to the website, you'll get the resources. So it just becomes a conversation starter. So we're kind of working on that. And, you know, we're going to create those small placeholders, give it to people. And those may not everybody is back in the office, but those who are back in the office physically, I know they could just keep it on the desk and just start a conversation. And people are saying, what is it? They'll be learning what we've learned about leadership. There's four important things for the very simple, very powerful and just become the conversation. So again, so we are working on it and then we will mobilize our people. Okay, those who want to do it, do it. You know, we're not forcing everybody to do it. It's just an idea. Those are comfortable doing it. And it's very generic. It's not directly spiritual or directly religious. We're talking about four seas of leadership, you know, that becomes a conversation starter. So like that, you know, with ideas, simple ideas, you know, we can begin to slowly go into all of these seven spheres. They can do empower and equip the lever to begin to make a difference. Whichever field they are in, right? They can begin to make a difference. And then through that, we can win souls and disciple people. Okay. All right, I see Christopher. Yeah, so Christopher, we're just getting a design. So I let the people who are handling the design work it out. I think what they're doing is, as Christopher has mentioned, have four seas on one side and other details. So it's just going to be just four states for the four boxes. And then there's a QR code and also a URL, a short URL, where people can just go and look at it. And I think it's double-sided. I'm not sure that the people are working doing the design. So I'm leaving it to them to figure that out. But thanks for sharing, Christopher. Okay. Anything else? Any thoughts on this seven mountains before we move on? Okay. All right. So let's go to the next lesson. I'm just going to share the PDF. Part of what we do when you are pioneering a work, or pioneering a church, or pioneering a ministry, is to keep in mind that any work you start, whether it's a local church or church plant or a ministry, it's going to go through stages of growth. And this is something you have already seen in the course on the House of God. I put it in here more for completeness and just as a reminder that we must be very conscious about stages of growth and understand where you are in this whole process of pioneering and developing a local church or a ministry in an urban context. And then we go from there. So of course, in the first two, three years, we would be in the pioneering stage. So when you are starting your work, and that's basically the focus of this course, which is urban church planting. How do you plant something? How do you start something? And what are the things you keep in mind? So the first two, three years are typically this pioneering stage where you are getting your team together. You are establishing yourself in that particular city or territory or region where God sent you. There's a lot of groundwork that you're doing through your prayer, intercession, reaching out, reaching out to the community. And basically, your goal is to lay a good foundation. Your pioneering stage is really your foundation stage. And you have to think like that. That means if you lay a good foundation, then you can build big and you can build strong. If the foundation is weak, is shaky, you can't do too much. Time may pass, but the foundation is weak. There's not much you can do. You can't build big or you can't build high and strong on a weak foundation. So the pioneering stage is important. It's your foundation stage. And some of the things I want to just mention here about the pioneering stage, the foundation stage, is to establish commitment that you must demonstrate commitment to the people and the place that God has called you to. It's not easy. Now, I understand that there are people who are, who keep moving from place to place. They'll go to a place for maybe six months, two years, whatever. They do something and they move on. They try to start something very quickly in six months to two years and they move on. Not everybody can get things started and established in such a short time. So if you have the resources, then of course you would put a team together and that team is going to continue to work. So therefore you have the opportunity to move on in six months or two years so you can move on if you're able to establish a good team. But otherwise, this becomes important. That means you are going to be committed to that city, that people, that place to make sure that church becomes strong, which is going to take time. So that pioneering stage is very important to establish commitment. If you're going to be there for the long term, I understand, like I said already, there are some people who do it differently, meaning they come in, they assemble the people, they empower the people in the stage, hand it off to the people that they move on. That's a different strategy, which we are not looking at. What we are looking at is you are committed, you're called to raise up a church or a ministry, therefore you have to establish commitment. So in establishing commitment, some of the things that we look at is, you stay focused on the vision, don't give up on the vision. You've got to be willing to go. I believe you've given me a vision to do this and I'm going to stay with it no matter what. That kind of a commitment we need to make. Now if God has called you more into a kind of ministry where you kind of put a team together, get them started and move on, that's a different thing. Otherwise, this kind of commitment, Lord, I'm going to be here, whatever it takes, I'm going to get this work done. You're committed to the people and you're committed to the place where God has sent you. The second important thing in the pioneering stage is that you are going to put things in place for the long term. You're not there to just look at short term results, but you are putting things in place for the long term. You're always thinking. One of the ways I want to encourage you to think is this. I want to be able, whether I have five people, 50 people, 500 people, or 5,000 people, I want to behave the same way. I want to conduct myself the same way. Whether I have five people, 50 people, 500 people, or 5,000 people, I will conduct myself the same way. So, with that in mind, how am I going to do my work? What are some of the principles or guidelines I must have in the way I work? Whether it's five, 50, 500, or 5,000, how am I going to go about doing things? Basically, the main thing. How can I do that? Now, I want you to understand this correctly. Of course, when things are bigger, there's more responsibility, and you would change with that. I'm not saying you won't. For example, let me give this as an example. For instance, in the very beginning, if you put it down as your way of working, if people want to meet me, they can come and meet me where I am, maybe in my office, and only if it is a very necessary thing, like somebody is in the hospital, or some situation like that, and they need us, we will go and meet them. But if it is for general, they want to talk, they want to get some guidance, they want to get some counsel, they want to get some input, then for conversations and all that, they come and meet me. You keep that as the way you operate, whether you are five people, 50 people, 500 people, or 5,000 people, what will happen? People will see that you never changed, and they will respect that. Otherwise, for instance, if in the early days, we have five people, five people call me, and I go to five different places to meet them, you can do that. And there are 50 people, it's going to weigh you out, how are you going to go to so many different places to meet them, and you have 500. So then when you suddenly say, guys, I cannot come and see you, you please come and meet me, I'm not going to point a finger at you, oh, you know, he's changed his attitude, he thinks too highly of himself now, etc. But if from the very beginning, you sit down certain ways of working, it is going to remain consistent through time, and even as you scale up, the people will see that, okay, he hasn't changed. It's the same thing, you know? You have people, it's the same thing, we all went and met him, and you have 50 people, same thing, we went and met him, and you have 500 people, same thing, we went and met him, he hasn't changed. I'm just giving one example. So you have to think like that. The way I work today, if I can remain consistent, even as things scale, I want to put things in place in such a way that even when things scale, I don't have to change, I'm still the same person, that's going to be very helpful. Let me pause here, and you know, we will continue on this pioneering stage a little bit more next week, I'll share some more thoughts on it. Yeah, Shikmar, do you have a question? Yes, sir, can I ask now, or can I ask? Yeah, you can ask, we have a few minutes. Yeah, thank you, sir. Sir, as you said right now, the way of working should not be changed, but I have seen in different ministries and you know, so when I see, and I found that as their church grows, they are also not getting the time to visit many places or so they actually stop meeting the people, or they just prefer that, you know, they just choose where to go or where not to go. But as you said, in the beginning like when these 5 people or 10 people, it was easy for them to handle. But now as you said now, that from the beginning itself if we follow a, I don't use set up a pattern of working, so how it can be, how we can do that, from the beginning itself, like from the beginning itself we can tell the people that no, it's not, we are not, we will not come to your house, but you have to come to my place and you have to meet me. I just want to know that because as the church increase the responsibility of the servant of God also increase, he needs more time in prayer and all. So that's my question. Thank you, sir. Yeah, I can share what we did. I'm not saying this is the best way or this is the right way. I can just share what we did. Like right from the beginning that was our approach. That means I did it myself and I also told our entire pastoral thing this is how we will work. That is if people want to meet us they just come and they come to our office, they come to where we are and meet with us. We are available but they come to us for several reasons. This is the way we are going to work right through and also it saves us our time so we can actually meet more people rather than spending our time and traveling, we can be in one place then we can actually serve more people if they just come and they meet us. So right from the beginning from day one that was the way we started 10 people or 100 or whatever it was the same thing. So people just make an appointment they say we give them at the end time they come and meet us. At least in our experience all our people are understanding of that. There may be a few who insist that we come and then they have to tell them someone meet me and so on. But for general meetings they come. Now of course if somebody is unwell somebody is sick there is an emergency somebody has passed away. Of course all of these things we go or somebody from our team will go and meet the people but in all other cases so we started doing that from the very beginning and in our experience people have been very accommodating already understanding we have not had any problems nobody has in these 23 years so nobody has really complained or pointed against us because of that pattern it has worked fine. We will pause here and I will definitely pick up on this next week and talk more about it as you think about how the work you are pioneering is going to grow over time and what other things we need to keep in mind as we do that. So may I have a question please pray with us as a class. Anybody could pray. I pray that thank you so much for the blessings that you have done for us. Amen. We didn't hear you but amen. Thank you everybody we will meet again soon and God bless and the rest of the afternoon see you again God bless.