 Hello, everybody. Welcome. I'm Mel Hauser. I use she, they pronouns and I'm the executive director of all brains belong. Welcome to brain club brain club is part of how we had all brains belong. Our bringing folks together to collectively unlearn and reimagine systems that don't work for so many of us. So this is our educational space to provide education about neurodiversity and related topics of inclusion. As I said bring people together based on a shared vision of what's possible to contribute to systems change by shifting norms by developing shared language and having conversations about topics such as what we'll be talking about tonight. This is a space where people can collectively learn and unlearn feel safe and for many experience something that's different from the outside world by promoting new ways of thinking and being. I do you want to say this is not for medical or mental health advice. This is not a support group. This is not a place to like get into individual specific problems. It's also not a neurodiverged affinity space we welcome anyone who is here to try to learn to understand neurodiversity and understand, you know what what what it means to be imagining a world where people with all types of brains can get their needs met and thrive. All forms of participation are okay here at brain club you can have your video on or off and even if it's on we don't expect anything of you. So please feel free to walk or move or fidget or stim or eat you know whatever whatever needs doing. And you know you're welcome to work so so I will introduce our speaker shortly. You are welcome to type in the chat box while they are presenting. There'll be also time for discussion that you can that we can do with mouth words spoken communication, or in the chat. In addition to affirming all aspects of identity we it's really important that we create safety by asking that you discuss impact of distressing experiences not events themselves, and that we create space for everyone to process and interact. We do try our best to navigate conflicting access needs. Well, first off you know some of you who are new to brain club access needs was an access need. We've asked our community. Now for years now talking about how will we know that our community has become more neuro inclusive. And one thing that our community advisory board feel strongly about is the idea that educating normalizing the discussion of access needs is part of neuro inclusive community access needs being anything that is required to fully participate in whatever it is that you're doing. Everyone has access needs. It's just that we are more or less likely to have our access needs met by the defaults of society. Depending on our environment. So speaking of access closed captioning is enabled you just have to toggle it on if you'd like to use it so depending on your version of zoom you might see the live transcript closed captioning icon. If not look for the more dot dot dot and shoes show subtitles. And that's my visual support to open the chat. There we go. So speaking of the chat. Last bit of intro that I'll share is that you know we we've been staff we've been really thinking about the conflicting access needs of using the chat. And the chat of course for many is a way of communicating without work mouth words for many it's a way of easing working memory what you have to keep in on the little invisible whiteboard in your brain and remember till there's a time to insert your comment as opposed to just typing the chat when it comes up allows for more processing time more people can share ideas in a short shorter period of time than would be able to without the chat. And of course less interruption to presenters and an opportunity to directly engage with other community members. You know many folks for example they they they connect about a topic and they make arrangements to you know connect offline about the topic for example at the same time the chat for many is visually cluttered it can be distracting people can have startle responses when it pops up and sometimes it moves quickly and can be hard to follow. So it's not that either one is right. It's that this is an example of conflicting access needs and part of neuro inclusive community is that we have to figure out a way to negotiate this. So here's all we have to offer you some ideas. So if you are someone who is distracted and distressed by the chat. Try one of these. First, either after the first time it pops up. Try not closing it. Just leave it there, because additional messages will replace the old message but it won't pop up anymore. If you don't have a phone sometimes that can be easier to ignore. But if you're on a computer it'll still work. You can also disable chat preview. You go to the you find that. So here's their toolbar at the bottom of zoom. You'll look for the chat. There's this little up carrot. When you click on it no go back. Alright, it'll it'll show show chat chat previews and there's probably a chat, a checkbox right there. If you click that and make the checkbox go away. It should stop popping up some ideas. And when we are using the chat, we ask that you type in the main box as opposed to read is that can make it hard for some folks to read. Okay, I think I am done with intro. So our new topic for the month connection is the path to health. We know that lacking strong social connection has the equivalent harmful impact on health is smoking 15 cigarettes a day. And we know that social isolation and loneliness are both rampant in the narrative urgent community. And when we think about all the different ways in which people are other. The impact of intersectional marginalization all these different aspects of identity that are stacked up the impact of that social isolation can be, you know, just exponential. And so, tonight, I am thrilled to introduce a member of our community, Sarah Knudsen as an ex lawyer ex therapist survivor activist. They're a blogger for Madden America and the developer of purely human a social justice and power leveling approach to distressing intense or extreme experiences. Sarah's work questions mainstream paradigms that separate human experiences into categories of normal and abnormal or sick and well. Sarah we are so thrilled to have you with us today. And I will stop share, and you can reshare whenever you are ready. And I can so that I know because I know you switched computers, I can put a spotlight on you so that we can see you. There we go. So that work. Yes, it did work. All right. Oops. I'm going to temporarily rename. So now you're an Amie's computer I'm going to temporarily rename. That looks great Sarah. Sarah we can't hear you. You might be muted. Oh, here we go. How about that. There we go. Great. Wonderful. Let's start from the top. Welcome to social connection as medicine the neurodiversity edition. So I don't know about you but I feel like when people talk about social connection. I'm in this neurodiversity double bind. People say, social connection is great for your health and I go I feel awful around people, and they say you should make more friends and I go like that's going to and then so and then I started to try to explore like what is going on because I want to care for my health but actually people scare me. And then I talked to people about it and they go well that's stupid. So with. So let's see what we if we can make sense of this experience I don't know if anybody else shares that or not but in any case. Since I'm nervous and I do here we go. Here's the punch line. Social connections are good for me. They help me survive challenges. They protect me against disease. And there's a ton of research to support this, but only if I feel safer and less stressed. And so what is that kind of thing for the neurodiversity community. Well, and a lot of ways it means it's not our fault, because if you look at the neurodiversity experience of social connection. There are some things that are that go against us as far as health. And one is that trying to connect with neurotypical ways of being is pretty stressful. And secondly, trying to try and being around mainstream attitudes that actively other neurodiverse traits and ways of being is tends to be is often quite unsafe. And both of those things a lack of the increased amount of stress and the lack of safety are barriers to health and they create they have actual health impacts. So there's a there's a wisdom to why a lot of us are socially isolating. It's not just like that we're we don't we don't get it and everybody else does there's actual barriers to our participating in social relationships in the same ways that others do. The question is why, why is that happening why isn't social connection working for me in the same way that's working for the neurotypical community. And to answer that question. I need to go into a few statistics and and really or just sort of the general concept of statistics. There's this concept out there in nature called the normal curve. And what it basically means is that you know you have a lot of a lot of a lot of things in nature are sort of the same. And then you have stuff that then you get a little bit more variety and then you get and that little bit more variety as you sort of go on out on either side of the curve. And so let's look at what that looks like in human beings. What it looks like in human beings is this, for any given trait that has survival value. What it basically got is a dominant majority of the culture, probably about two thirds. And, and what what's happening there is that nature is betting heavily on tried and true defaults. So these are things that have worked in the past, and are likely to work again in the future. And so this experience of the dominant majority is shared by the majority of the culture. So as a result, a majority of the people in the culture look feel act and do life a lot alike. So they all tend to get each other. And then, and then a little bit further outside of the outside of that curve, we have the understandable minority. That's where nature is added in some possibly useful variety, a little bit of variation on the tried and true defaults. And the experience differs notably from the majority experience, but it's close enough for the majority to get what's happening with the might this understandable minority and it's close enough for the understandable minority to get what's happening with the majority. And not so though, with Assad ducks, because what's happening on that side of the spectrum is that nature is basically having trouble actually seeing my slides so let me see if I can do something about this part of it. There we go. So not so with Assad ducks, because nature is really experimenting in that case and preparing for the rare. And so it doesn't need to do that a lot but it's and it wasn't wise to do that a lot but it's, it's wise to do that some. And so, but as a result, if I'm in that duck group, my my experience is going to radically differ from the majority. And as a result I'm going to be pretty much baffled and confused by what the majority does. And also the majority is going to be pretty much baffled by me what I do is going to appear logical and extreme and crazy to the majority. Well, that what and let's see here if I can. Why isn't my mom sorry. Okay, it's okay we got it. This is social support happening as we speak. I think it's that thing right there. Just think we need to stop that there I think that's going to work now. No, why is this stopped. Oh wait, so started up again who knew. Okay. Who knew. Um, so there's a here's an example of what what's going on, what might happen we just went through COVID-19. So in COVID-19 we had this dominant majority. And was a which was your garden variety normal extrovert. They found social isolation really painful. But you know, I, if I was in that group I did my part. I was, it was in a lot of pain but I did my part because that's what we all needed to do. So that was the kind of the normal COVID experience. And then there was this understandable minority so suppose I was a little bit more extroverted than usual well then social isolation took a heavier than usual toll and I needed more help than usual to get through maybe I ended up hospitalized maybe I had to take a long period off of work. Or maybe I was more introverted than usual. So in that case maybe I handled it pretty well, but I missed, maybe I maybe I handled it pretty well I missed people but you know I really actually enjoyed the break from social routines. So, I got there, like a lot easier than most, in fact. And then, again, not so without a side ducks suppose here I'm the off the charts extrovert. So, now, now I need to interact starts creating risks for others, or I drive them crazy. I'm maybe breaking into work when I'm not essential. I'm costing people on the streets talk them that kind of thing. Or else I'm an off the charts introvert where it's like you guys are way behind the times I've been I've been socially isolating that's not a new thing. I and I probably feel a secret believe that others are off my back. And they're finally seeing life from my shoes. Now, under the under the evolution scene. These groups are abnormal. They're all what you would predict from distributing traits across across a species in a way that protects the species in a variety of ways. And so, and it's and when you think about it, the people who probably kept the world would have kept to keep the world safest in a plague were not extroverts at all. In fact, extroverts the normal extroverts they were a risk for us. They were the more extroverted you were the more likely you were to spread the plague. And the more introverted the more adaptive for our species was the off the chart the most adaptive person for our species in a plug is off the charts introvert. So, in that case evolution was really what that that rare trait that was in our species was a huge benefit. But that's not how diversity thinks of normal. The nor diversity things hey we're in the majority that's good. And you're either too much. If you're if you're if you're one side of normal you're too much if you're the other side of normal you're too little. And it's not like I'm making that up. There's actually, you know that that basically the, the experts on what's normal and not the American Psychiatric Association actually like says in their manual on what's disordered and what isn't that if you don't want to end up in a psychiatrist office or you don't want to get slapped with a psychiatric label, the way you should, how you need to act is you need to stay within cultural norms, and you need to not exceed the social thresholds of tolerance for specific symptoms or behaviors. So in other words, it's what the society wants to tolerate and what this is what the culture thinks is normal that decides whether you're disordered or not. It's a very different way of thinking about it than evolution is thinking about it. Basically, it, what it's saying is, and what, and what the experts in our culture are giving permission for the majority to think is what normal is what we say it is. Our way is the right way, we get to decide what has value and what doesn't. If it works for us it gets to stay if it doesn't work for us we throw it out. It sort of creates the must fit in bed used to be called the progressing in bed but it's 2024. And so what's the must fit in bed. Well, it's about, it's something the majority really creates for this that's about what's convenient for majority culture. And, and so the end so you fit in if I mean this this must fit in bed is really about the things that it's it's about the majority doesn't have to change it's it's about the majority understands majority traits. They operate based on majority traits, the majority doesn't have to adapt or change, and the majority feels comfortable and safe. And that's not what's good for our species. It's not like I mean we leave a lot behind like we've got a little caterpillar saying my legs are too short and we've got a beautiful giraffe over here saying my legs are, you know, oh my I'm too tall and we've got the must fit in bed saying and the only color I like is blue. So it's not about what's good for a species it's much more like going back to high school and it and where it's where it's not really science it's a popularity contest we're in the majority we voted and you lose. So, then we look at this and we say well we'll pick your plan do you want the evolution planner do you want the mainstream culture plan. And under the evolution plan humanity gets to try gets lots of tried and true defaults. We get some bonus variety. We get new possibilities and protection from the unpredictable. So we pretty much cover our bases under the mainstream culture plan we get lots and tried and true defaults. We get maybe some bonus variety, but only if the majority can understand them and everything else gets thrown out. So, pick the plan you want to live with. Then, and then the other problem isn't though for for those of us in the neurodiversity communities. It's not just that we're different. It's really a social disconnection problem that that's actively happening as well. And, and this comes from Robert Sapolsky. He studies primates he's a he's in professor at Stanford he's a neurologist and stress researcher. And he says, you know I've studied a lot of species and sometimes and they and lots of species have, you know, sort of class rankings. And in some species that's better and some species that's worse. But in humankind it's not only like that we have class rankings and that makes that's kind of worse. But actually we're doing something that no other species have done in the history that we're aware of in the history of the universe which is we as human beings are really getting good at we are practicing we are honing the we are developing our skill at making each other feel poor. So take that in for a second, because what does it mean to feel poor well it means. I can feel worse than you on almost any, any in almost any way imaginable status opportunities education what I know what I have what I do who I am how I am. What is this this idea of others have it and I don't. And so if others have it and I don't I get to feel bad about myself. And there's, and also in human in the human species. There's an unprecedented way for ways, a number of ways for me to know that I that I'm poor to know that others have it and I don't. I can learn through pop culture I can learn through advertising I can learn it through social media. I can experience it by being out in the community and I can experience it by interacting with interacting with you. So those are the there's a there's a zillion ways to do that. And it's in a lot of ways it's bad for health all around, because what I do is I use the social power and privilege I have to try to win against you in the game of life. But it's not just a one way thing you're also doing the same thing to me and so I constantly have to be on guard and you constantly have to be on guard so we're both sort of stressed out. And it also incentivizes this kind of social, the social other ring, because my status only goes up if I can put you down. And so it incentivizes me to actually look for ways that I have something that you don't so that I can put you down and build myself up. And there's this. And what what supple ski observes in and and that's what the statistics show is that in, in, in these kinds of cultures which is basically what we're living in right now. It's bad for everybody's health. And there's reasons it and what happens is crime goes up it just makes for a more stressful place to context to live in crime goes up. Psychiatric and an addiction problems there's more school bullying. There's less happiness less social support and mobility. So it's, it's, it's bad all around, but it's, there's a, but there's a also a differential effect because if I'm an odd duck in that culture. That that's that that has a favorite pastime of making low status people feel poor, then I have a disproportionate impact. Safety comes from higher status, neurotypical outranks neurodiverse. So I'm at constant risk of social injury and I'm constantly vulnerable for being to being poor, or to feeling poor. And this is the result that makes for stress and on safety. Often continually, that's really bad for neurodivergent health. And, yeah, not making this stuff up. Just, you look at the social, the research on the social determinants of health. There's a lot of words on that page I'm not going to read them all, but I am going to summarize them for you and basically what it says is this this, you know, it says, hey, the stuff we need to live and be well is both social and economic. And guess what a lot of us still can't access that. And the result is breakdown both physical and mental. And we can predict who this will happen to, and people it happens to or those of us who are low on the social totem pole, which includes neurodivergence. So, so those are the, that's what we're up against. And that's that. And that's why the fact that we avoid relationships makes a tremendous amount of sense. But supposing we could create relationships that were not so stressful, and they were actually helped us to get rid of stress instead of created stress. And supposing we could create relationships that actually helped us to feel safe instead of threatened. What then why would social connection work. What, what would social connection actually do for us that would help us that would that would that would help us to get healthier. And so this is. So the key to that is really understanding stress and survival functioning. It's not a direct route it actually, it actually is a route that goes through our bodies. And the thing that, that, that's sort of important to get here. And I, and I, and it's a really good book though why zebras don't get answers by suppose key. And it, it, it really it goes through and by the end of it it's like, you sort of wiped out across the board I mean stress just impacts like everything in my body, like whether my glands and hormones and neurotransmitters function what my heart blood pressure is what my cholesterol is how I breathe, you know how well I do I'm but how what my appetite is how how my digestive system works does my gut hurt, do I metabolize my food. Do do I, you know it affects whether I have the resources to grow and develop it affects what sex my experience of sexuality, whether I'm able to reproduce it affects whether my immune system functions effectively and how vulnerable I am to disease. My pain tolerance and how much I experienced pain. It affects whether I have a memory or not it affects well that whether I get a good night's sleep and the quality of that sleep. It affects how quickly I age and how likely I am to die young. It affects my mental health my well being things like depression, my motivation my ability to experience pleasure, it literally changes my personality and my temperament depending on whether I'm stressed or not. It increases my hallmark of stress is that it increases my vulnerability to addiction, especially an addictive behaviors that aren't particularly helpful or healthy. So, and then, well, and so the question is why I mean what what what about stress that it does that why do our bodies respond to stress in that way. And here's just a sort of an illustration to kind of hopefully get across the point a little bit, which is what I feel like enough without having to strain I get to feel. I get to feel relaxed and it ease, but when I feel like I have to be more than I naturally am. Then I get, then it's really easy to get, then it then I get then this then this stress this experience of being stressed out comes in. And if it's it's like Clark Kent, you know the one side that the relaxed person is Clark Kent, and the and the stressed out person is Superman. It's like the energy that it takes to turn Clark Kent into Superman is phenomenal. And so my body has to somehow transform me from Clark Kent into Superman every time I'm stressed out. And that takes a lot of energy and a lot of shuffling around a body resources which really puts a lot of stress and strain on the body. So let's just talk about that, and especially maybe some illustration, so that you can sort of see how this thing works, because like the well being system, which is kind of life enhancing and life nurturing. I call that kind of the ground of being, because it's really the stuff that keeps my life going. It's not it doesn't help me move in the world, but it but it's, it's the stuff that allows me to stay in it. It allows me to actually to live and be alive. And, and the stuff that happens when I'm in this well being system, and the well the parts of my systems in my body that provide for well being is, I get a good night sleep, I can digest my food. I can, when, when toxins come in my, I have organs that are specifically designed to, to identify them and send them back out. And that system functions well so I, so I so I have some resistance against diseases. I have enough energy to heal wounds. And I have enough energy to grow, and a good quality energy to grow, and which doesn't just affect physical growth it also affects whether I can learn from experience because learning from experience requires making new neural connections and if I'm too stressed out that doesn't So, and then there's also a quality of awareness of, of, there's a different way of being aware of life, where when I'm in my well being system, I'm really able to appreciate the experience of living. When I'm in that survival and life defending system that's focused on getting rid of a threat. What's happening is, I'm not appreciating the experience of living. I'm focused on a very specific goal. And it's very easy to turn it's very easy to turn you into objects other people into objects what I mostly just care about is the end is this is the end justifying the means. Can I get out of this situation and who's going to help me to do that and how and if they can't help me I don't really care. So, then, let's get we'll talk about this this stress system, which, which is basically a rapid response system that amps me up and tries to help me protect protect my interest. So, this activation is at a cost, because in order to in, in, in order for in order to get that in order to have that stress activation, all the energy that I need for stress activation. So, basically what my stress system does or what that gas pedal system does is pillage the rest of my body for energy. And so for as long as my stress system is actively operating, other tissues and organs are going to lack the resources they need to function and stay healthy. It's also going to put a tremendous amount of stress on my heart and lungs and circulatory system. It's going to stay on on my muscles are going to be on call so that's going to put a lot of tension. It's going to create a lot of tension it's going to they're going to get tired of being on call so they're going to start having fatigue aching and sprain. They might put strain on my bones and joints at the same time. And it's also going to affect it also affects my coordination I tend to lose my fine fine motor coordination and other levels of coordination progressively as stress increases. And then it's also going to hose me over for getting a good night's sleep. And I'm going to have a little very often my sleep is not restorative which results in reduced mental functioning the next day, and reduced healing growth and learning because a lot of that happens during sleep. So what's it feel like to be a cell in my body when I'm stressed. Well, I'm tired. I'm drowning in my own waste. When is somebody going to pay attention and take care of me. And when you sort of project that across the board that most of the cells in my body are feeling like this under the influence of stress. Why my body ends up hating me is I've got you know, 37 trillion cells in my body. So I've got an awful lot of an awful lot of unhappiness happening physiologically when I'm when I'm in stress for long periods of time. And then, well being is offline at the same time. So that means that that that means that my digestion is offline and under functioning so there's no new energy coming in. And when my digestion shuts down that means my throat is shutting down my stomach is shutting down my gut is cramping my appetite is going wonky. Usually I lose it but then it's sometimes rebounds. So there's all these swings usually what I'm hungry for isn't very healthy because it's about getting energy or comfort, which is a very different experience than when I feel safe and safe and comfortable. The same thing with toxin elimination that toxins are being overlooked because those symptoms aren't functioning my kidneys livers and attack. Once the stress system turns off my kidneys livers and intestines wake up to like that to like total to lots of poisons that they have to deal with so they're getting a heavier dose. And while they're sleeping cells are being vulnerable to being poisoned immunity. You know, it's same kind of thing microbes having free reign. And then repair it and then the repair and growth functions offline so wounds aren't healing and and vital tissues are wearing out. And then a special thing for a lot of us in this community who have immune issues. One of the issues is that repeated activation is going to take my immune system on a roller coaster ride. And so my immune system is basically going hey yo what's up. It's going up and down high low on off and what it's and what it's waking up to is just like a virtual war zone. And so it's going to sit wakes up and it sees distressed and dying cells everywhere and it's like, where did all this come from. And it doesn't. And it's, it has to sort out where what that source is, which just increases the potential for confusion. And then which would make sense then I'm just making this up but it makes sense that my immune system might get it wrong sometimes and attack me by mistake. So, and even that's not all because the stress system really creates very different ways of thinking and being in the world. And basically the long and the short of it is that this that the stress system and the survival system is not very good for long term decision making. It's the default is is is rapid decisions, rapid choices that are pretty instinctive and pretty impulsive. They're pretty opportunistic, and they're pretty much they're pretty impatient and they then tends to worry about consequences later. So that's hard on that that tends to not be good long term choices and it also tends to burn my bridges. And the reason this is happening is because the high order thinking is going offline. My muscles are hogging up the resources to pump themselves up and my undersupplied brain, the part of my brain that actually does the kind of careful careful thinking that I need is defaulting to have an instinct. In a modern society where we rely on incredible amounts of cognitive resources. That's a real problem, because to fix most modern problems which involve paperwork, not brawn. I need to be able to listen, and I have to be able to assess options and things things through and then once I figured something out, I figured out what I need or how to go about it I have to be able to communicate clearly and well. And, and when I can't do that my problems get worse because all of my energy is going to instinctive brawn when I need a brain that can actually think outside the box of my past experience. So, the result is I get stuck in a vicious cycle. And the way it works is I'm scared. I'm overwhelmed. I'm alone. My defenses amp up my brain shuts down or goes into overdrive. And because I'm having, I, so I do what I know how to do, because I don't have the resources to do anything else. So, and if that doesn't work, then I just keep trying it again and again and again, and it still doesn't work. And so my resources diminish my desk desperation escalates. I try to get help. It doesn't work. Doesn't feel like me doesn't fit my lifestyle doesn't fit my budget. So, and then I just keep going through that and the more that happens the more scared and overwhelmed and alone I feel the more desperate and overwhelmed again I just keeps getting stuck in that cycle. So, how do I get out. Well, good news I have a well being system. And it's got all the ingredients I actually need to make my life better. The main problem isn't that I don't have a well being system it isn't that I don't have the the ingredients within my body to actually create well being. The problem is that I don't that I can't turn the stress activation off that's preventing that that's preventing me from actually accessing that well being and preventing those systems. The stress activation is keeping those systems from operating optionally. So, if I can get out of stress activation, then the restorative operations can kick in my well being system can kick in my body can feel starts to feel better and then I do to. So, how do I turn activation on and off. Well, the thing that what's turning threat on what's or what's turning stress on well I get scared or afraid. I feel threatened, then my system pumps me up to be more than I am so the threats things shows up when I feel like I have to be more than I am. And when I need help. So, but what turns it off. Well, trying harder doesn't turn it off because that's just what the stress system is about trying harder trying to get it to turn off just creates more stress. What actually turns it off is a context of safety and trust. So, and in a context of safety and trust. Then this system. Then I know, I no longer need once I want safety and trust show up, however they manage to show up, however I can manage to get them to show up that that that stress activation isn't needed anymore. It is able to calm it is it's able to sort of like go over the reins, and then the well being system is able to show up and start doing the work of well being. So, the question is how does social connection help. Well, here's illustration of the power of social connection. This tree is from New Zealand. Really, and it lives basically is really, really incredibly tall tree that lives in that lives in a swamp so incredibly unstable ground. And how does this tree survive well, all of these trees huddled together really close proximity and they intertwine their and they intertwine their roots. So they have this huge massive under underground root system that keeps everybody standing tall. It's a really good sort of metaphor for a culture of independence. And there's a lot of ways that we can create a culture of independence but it's essentially it's about human beings working together to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses. And so, how does a culture of independence actually help well there's two kinds of stress one short term one time long one time sort of indefinite or long term. And the stress has a workable solution I just need to find it and implement it, and the faster I can implement it. The less bad it is for my health. The, the long term indefinite kind of stress is the harder one. There's not an easy fix. It's at best it's a waiting game I might actually have to accept the unacceptable. And so I'm really stuck with the question of how do I keep going and what what's my quality of life going to be in the interim. Interdependence helps with both of these things. First, it was short term stress I have more access to workable solutions more help to find it more ways to implement it. So I, I stay out of stress or I exit faster with the indefinite kind of stress, at least I get a reality check on what is possible there's enough, there's enough of us around so I know other people have been through this before I'm not the only one. And so and there's also support people know what it's like to go through what I'm going through so there's support will I wait for answers. And then people also have experienced that I'm not the only one in my in my tribe who has ever had to accept the unacceptable so other people have gone through it they they figured out ways to do it they can help me. So there's there's more support to keep going and there's a better better interim quality of life. Second thing that I've got going for me the second way of getting out of out of stress is oxytocin which some people call sort of the social support hormone. And it's really it's it's a it's a this kind of lovely hormone that really comes from caring for each other and it's sort of ideal for that long term stress. Because it's, it's, it's a it's really about that it, it was, we think it came about because of these kinds of stresses where you really, you know, if you're, especially for women if you're, if you're a mother and you and you're with a small child and you can't move or you're in a relationship with someone and you can't fix it or you can't move, but, but you need to stay with them. Then then this this hormone comes up and actually helps you to be your best self it creates a change it changes the quality of the experience the fact that you care enough to stay with somebody else during when they're really stressed out, or somebody has a tough enough about me to stay with me when I'm really stressed out changes the quality of the experience that both of us are having. And, and as a result of that, it's much easier to the effects of stress are actually changing our body, this oxytocin makes stress basically makes stress not so stressful, and it also has a lot of long term benefits for stress as well. And so, how does oxytocin help short term qualitatively different experience. Basically short term and long term short answer is qualitatively different experience. I'm not, I'm neither case of my, my is urgent to find a solution. And I whatever whatever I'm dealing with, I'm sort of accompanied by a by a sensation of comfort and not being in this alone, and a sensation of being a part of the community, and also a sensation of offering something of worse to other people. And then the last part is this idea of, of, hey, the power of two, I'm much more when I'm with you, where relationships where we bring out the best in each other, we help each other get through rough times. You can function when I can't I can function when you can't we sort of fill in the gaps for each other. And again, this is the idea that I'm not alone with this. Through this stuff, we can, we have ideas and skills that each other doesn't. We help to balance out stuff that's unacceptable. We make faster and lighter work of hard of hard times, and we create a quality of life that's worth living together. And so there's a lot of benefits of connection. There's there's a little end summary of that and Bravo social support brought to you by the best of human nature the end. So, there, I have no words. I was incredible. The chats, the chat is exploding with with praise. And you want to know the people who before ABB, the people who, and also the people who actually really nailed this idea of social support and interdependence. You heard from them last week. I mean, and you heard from Chris Hansen last week sharing me and Chris Hansen intentional peer support. They really have sort of nailed this idea of like how do you create a relationship that's mutually supportive. That's really good that's going to bring out the best in us. And, and, and, and, and, and change the actual quality of our experience of going through hard times to something that we can both get through together. They're just, it's just a brilliant. It's just a brilliant framework for for approaching relationships that tons of neuro divergent people have used, and it's helped us to understand relationships in ways we never would have otherwise. Sarah, I don't know if you can see the chat. Sherri and Chris are here sharing you on. Thanks, thank you so much. Sarah, are you okay with inviting questions. Fantastic if people have questions this would that would be awesome I was hoping to leave some time for that and not yak away all of your time so thank you that would be awesome this awesome Sierra. A question more just admiration of, so I think the way that you ring the connection of kind of like whole body holistic view of we're not just talking about mental health we're not just talking about physical health we're talking about what, what a body is under stress and what a body does under isolation is just really amazing and I think that's that's such a missing part of the conversation so often in kind of both separate circles of mental health and physical health and I just I really appreciate your kind of your way you bring those together as this is this is one thing and this is how all these are connected and this is how we can do something like social connection that addresses so many different parts of health and well being and everything. Amazing work. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, I mean that's what a bb is doing I mean you're are you that's that's what a bb this community is doing is actually living, living this way this kind of social, this kind of this model of social connection it's it's it's it's it's phenomenal. The impact that you're having. It really is an incredible thing to watch. Not only the idea that so many people who have in separation. Endured these negative like not negative negatives like an understatement like these traumatic deeply harmful social experiences, all the while thinking that each each of us were alone and the only person experiencing that and then you bring people together. And you know what as you were describing so many of these things so first off your your one of your many gifts that you shared with us tonight was the idea of taking these like really complex concepts and turning them into graphics like you know as part of the universal design that I think that really really landed anyway the chat was like oh that that that yeah wow that's my life right so there's just so much so much of that that that that you brought for people a framework of understanding and shifting the narrative of those experiences. Monique. Hi Monique here. Sarah, thank you. I two years ago I had a heart attack and it wasn't related to heart disease, and one day, the cardiologist that I got to see for a year said, Oh, maybe it's because you're so very socially isolated. And I thought, you think you think that's what's going on. Look, I just, I get very frustrated with medical community and I'm a retired counselor. So a therapist I'm going to lump the therapist and there too, who just failed to recognize the interconnectivity of health and well being. I really appreciate how you came at it from such an integrated approach and a somatic approach like you really, it wasn't just one part of the body experience it was a fully embodied presentation and I really appreciated that. I guess my million dollar question is and it's an it's a lifelong quest is how do I make friends. Oh my goodness I realize I'm socially isolated but like you you started the whole conversation at the beginning with that that double conflict that the only I know I need to be socially isolated but people really bug me. And it's really hard to be with people, but I want to be with people like it's this whole back and forth dance and I have not figured it out. Once a week I look forward to this because this is one way that I can be with people, and in a way that is comforting and energizing for me to be with people. It's not exhausting coming to all brains belong. So, yeah, so I guess again no questions just a whole lot of kudos and thank yous. Although if you do have the answer to how to make friends I mean that would be brilliant if you could sum it up and like the last seven minutes. Thank you Sarah. The only the only thing that I do think is that it's really important to pay attention to what's like that ball like, like the stress system my stress system wants me to jump in with both feet. It wants an immediate answer. And so it's very important for me to pay attention to the experience I'm having with other people, and to sort of like these qualitatively small shifts. So to just like if I'm trying to move from like isolation to to to social connection. It's it's like I'm not going for like full body immersion I'm going for like, you know dipping a toe in and seeing what that feels like, and then getting some sense and building on that that that's the slow it's it's using this well being system and these well being concepts to to not stress myself out more, and to, and to just explore the territory of what to explore this new territory and get a sense of what's going to what's going to help me what's going to make me feel better or worse what's going to help me to feel connected and what and what doesn't. It's sort of going in some directions and then feeling having total permission to back off. And, you know, just and to just take my time and try some things out. Amen to that Taylor and then Chris. So I found it really fascinating. When you were talking about that connection between mind and body and how social connection can cause issues like physical health problems and it can also exist for a mental health issues. I was just wondering, I don't even know if this question you could answer but how do you decide which one to address first like I know personally with my neurodivergent issues I have certain sensory problems that make me a very difficult person to be around, so that impede social interaction. So, I wonder, like, drawing how to like, I don't even know if I'm capable of being coherent. Sorry. You know, finding a way to make those interactions like would you say that social interaction will eventually make those issues less or is this something that you need to figure out how to deal with those issues first. You're doing a great job. Like the idea is stress can affect all of this stuff. I don't know what's what is innate for me and what stress until my stress goes down. I don't know what's possible and so just and so I guess it's like to start with, you know, whatever I mean, you don't have to connect with human beings if it's better to connect with an animal if it's better to connect with the stuffy if it's better to connect with the sensory experience that you enjoy. I mean, it what matters is that there's that that it's a it's looking for for meaningful connections and and and and then and and then gradually finding ways to expand those. So sort of beginning to explore the territory of those things and and it can even be, I mean, one of the most richest connections I end up having when I'm not in a stress place is with myself is with my own, my own body my own sensory experiences my own experience of the environment around me. So it's that well being system has just a lot to offer. And the more I get into it the more the more possibilities sort of seem to sort of slowly emerge from that and then it's a matter of tiptoeing around to see what else I want to explore. I never thought of it that way. Thank you. That's fascinating. I have to think about that. Chris. Yes, hi. Oh, I'm looking up and it's weird. I'm projecting you onto a screen and I'm not quite sure how to make it a little bit less weird. Maybe I'll just, yeah, no. Not going to try and be too clever. So apologies for that. I can see you all. Firstly, thank you, Sarah. You sort of beautifully articulate something that that makes so much sense when you say it. It's like, oh yeah, of course, that's really obvious. And yet nobody's saying it like that. You know, we're all we're talking talk to about dopamine and norepinephrine and we have taken, you know, and and and all these and and and it's brought down to chemicals so much when words like connection and friend would be so, you know, so helpful and make a lot of sense to many of us or trauma or, you know, whatever. I just wanted to say to that question about how do you make a friend that we in our peers do like what we call co-reflection, which is sort of like a team meeting and we reflect on, you know, how we're how we are working and and and our interactions and the most meaningful and rich one recently was someone says, well, how do we make friends? And we had this wonderful, enriching, very alive conversation and and I think we all came away just feeling really brightened by it. And I was just going to put out there that I think this would be a great topic for just a little group to get together and just talk about how do you make friends? How do you connect? You know, what do you do if you're held captive held hostage at a cocktail party because you have to be there. And, you know, you're feeling like like a fish out of water. And, you know, what do other people do? And maybe your brains belong sometime might, you know, host something like that because absolutely everyone, even the ones that we all thought were really social just needed this so much. Thanks very much. Oh, I can't. That's fantastic. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine a better way to wrap this up, right? I mean, so, you know, what I think, Sarah, what you have invited us to do today and I think as Chris, you just wrap this up so perfectly, right? It's about, like, zooming out and really shifting, like, and really it's the unlearning thing unlearning what is, you know, what do we think we know about relationships. And can we return to this, you know, more authentic, more, more simplified state of viewing the world. And so with that, I really appreciate Sarah. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for being here tonight. And, you know, speaking of, of, you know, unlearning and reimagining. Next week we will be applying the same concept to looking at our relationship to work. We'll be hearing from a panel of ABB community members sharing their experiences about how they have been shifting their relationship to work. It's going to be a slightly different format of a community panel. It's going to be a shorter panel so that we have plenty of time for discussion. I look forward to seeing you then. Thanks everybody.