 Everything because he's not alive. I'd be I'd be like such a bozo because I had a really really really funny Bozo not not baby Robozo Because I had a really funny joke on the politics show and I only realized when I was repeating it to Friend of the show Darren kitchen last night that I had messed up the name of the president I was making a joke about the picture that was taken yesterday Mm-hmm the George HW Bush, right every presidential funeral has to have the standard picture of all the living presidents in attendance Yes, and it is particularly interesting with this crop because almost everybody hates each other or has like this In in a fairly short amount of time except for the man I called Gerald Ford, but I know is Jimmy Carter No, you called him Gerald Ford. Wow. I just said wow shots fired Wow No, I know I know and then people call me out and then they were right and First grade me and Jeff Petersen are but my but my joke was that he was just on the end saying Anybody want to mint? Hillary mint bill He's the only one that that none of them probably really have strong hate for if they have hate at all Oh, well, nobody politically has hate Jimmy Carter is like yeah, I think Reagan Reagan probably loved Carter Hey, he was in the later years maybe and really digging. Oh, I don't think that look He was a speed bump to to Reagan. No. Yeah, that's true. I mean I wouldn't I don't think they were Pals or anything, but I did the presidential fraternity, right? Sure. I Think it I think it's a very Very interesting. Did you did you get a chance to listen to the the the Just a clip. Yeah, just a just a clip It's a clip surprising amount of it Spent on how much of a rambunctious sort George HW Bush was including that he would Have an ongoing communication with friends that would just send him jokes And then he would rank the jokes from one to ten And that he was very harsh like there were only Like the highest like I like to get us a seven or an eight was a tremendously high honor and they were usually filthy He he'd laughed at the the off-color jokes That was his weakness was like put make it off-color and had a higher chance during the fact that he wound up getting caught up in a David Papa feel scandal You know, that tracks this is the problem, right? If you if you live your life with dirty jokes then the Less dirty joke doesn't feel dirty anymore and you lose you lose the sense of the room sometimes Well, yeah, although we did confirm exclusively on the politics politics politics podcast that he did pinch both Male and female butts when telling that joke which one doesn't get right hot water doesn't make it right Doesn't make it right, but context is always helpful in all situations We had we had confirmation from a secret service That's great Ah Lovely if folks who if you're not watching politics politics politics or listening missing out Yeah, have you want to listen to the dumb podcast for the idiot mistakes the dead Gerald Ford for the very much alive Jimmy Carter? Who now by the way has outlived two of his? People who were three later. Oh, well, yeah, no to to to post he out Successors and one predecessor for this he outlived his opponent for the 76 election. Yes, and the two following presidents. Yeah, it's the peanuts Alright you guys ready talk about some That's Huawei it up Want to do it All right, here we go in three two Thanks to everyone who supports independent tech news directly if you're not already a member become one at patreon.com Dtns This is the Daily Tech news for Thursday December 6th 2018 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt from Oakland, California I'm Justin Robert young and from a very wet LA County area. I am the producer Roger Shane Sarah Lane has the day off. She will be missed, but we will look forward to her returning tomorrow We are definitely going to talk probably a little longer Amount about the arrest of the chief financial officer of Huawei in Vancouver by Canadian officers Supposedly in order to extradite her to the United States That's gonna come with there's a lot to parse on that story. So that's gonna come a little later But let's start with a few other tech things you should know Yeah, it's official we talked about it before as a possibility now It's a reality Microsoft will rebuild the edge browser to run on chromium Using the blink and v8 JavaScript engines Microsoft vice president for Windows Joe Bale Fiori cited Compatibility cross compatibility as well as battery life as two of the reasons they're doing this Current Windows 10 Edge installations will just get the new platform automatically when it's ready But Edge will also become available after they do this for Windows 7 Windows 8 and macOS Beta builds will begin early next year Also Microsoft working with Google to bring a native arm 64 version of Chrome to Windows 10 on arm and Mozilla's working on bringing a native version of Firefox to Windows 10 on arm. It's Brits browser Brotherly love going on The browser of browserly love Apple Watch Series 4 can now read your heart's electrical signal by the user holding a finger on the crown of the device This can identify a atrial Fibulation a type of a regular heart rhythm anyone over the age of 22 can use these new heart health features Apple received clearance from the electrocardiogram app from federal regulators back in September And ride hailing company Lyft filed for an IPO company was recently valued around 15 billion dollars But Lyft made its confidential filing with the S SEC so we don't know the number of shares it will sell or the price range sources tell Reuters that lifts IPO slated Probably in the first half of 2019 Uber also expected IPO next year So we'll have to hail some stocks from the ride hailing teams in 2019. Yeah as far as As far as that that goes it is happening when it comes to ride hailing software Let's talk a little bit more about Messaging and I mean Google messaging it got simpler, but I wouldn't call it simple jury No, no, no Google announced aloe will stop working in March and users have until then to export their conversation history Google will support five messaging apps messages which supports RCS Hangouts chat, which is different from the Hangouts app that is being shut down Hangouts meet a video conferencing app duo Google's voice calling app and Google voice, which is just audio call. I do as Google's video calling Yes, no no duo is Google's video calling app and Google voice is audio call. Yeah, so it's that simple folks you'll have messages for text messaging and that will actually be the focus on Android and Then you'll have Hangouts chat Which everybody's wringing their hands over the fact that Hangouts is going away the Hangouts app is Going away and will be replaced by Hangouts chat and Hangouts meet and Google promises They will make that transition smooth Everybody got all riled up because they heard a rumor about Hangouts going away and Google names Everything Hangouts they have like 15 products named Hangouts So everybody freaked out thinking theirs was going away and the fact of the matter is one thing is going away Hangouts chat and it will be replaced by Hangouts. I'm sorry one thing is going away See, I'm even get confused one thing is going away Hangouts the app which will be replaced by the enterprise apps Hangouts chat and Hangouts meet Which will no longer be enterprise It shows how complicated this ecosystem was to begin with so bringing it down to five is somewhat of a simplification But there's still Google voice out there They're gonna keep duo around because I guess enough people are using that When it feels like maybe they should just collapse all this stuff into one out Well, I think that they want to have one that people seem to like and and and that's the the the problem is that they launch these apps and They either get traction or they don't sometimes when they get traction they keep them going and sometimes I think the reason why that Hangout story got out of control is because there are many people for whom still more in the death of Google Reader and other Products that they put out in box is something that I very much enjoyed and now is sunsetting and becoming part of Gmail so I think that they they have a well-earned reputation of being a remorseless killer of their own products Even if they are fan favorites, and if you're the kind of person who gets mad at your dad still For that time ten years ago when he wouldn't let you go to the concert Then you probably got mad at Google over the Hangouts Yes, it's the same kind of principle like you're not really mad about the thing you're mad about previous stuff, but you'd step back John Broadkint at Ars Tactica does the Lord's work covering the telecom sector. He is he's fantastic at it He notes in his article today that lobby group for US carriers US telecom Released an analysis last week that says the following from the end of 2015 pay attention to these dates from the end of 2015 to mid 2017 so around June 2017 US fiber deployment grew from 21% to 29% of homes and Competitive availability of wired broadband at 25 megabits per second down and three up increased from 31% to 55% Also by mid 2017 by June 2017 broadband at 100 megabits per second download was available to 89% of Americans Compared to 10% back in 2010 US telecom also recently released new spending data showing broadband providers increased their capital investment in 2017 after a two-year decline and FCC Chairman Ajit Pai touted the results saying that the new data confirms that the FCC's policies to promote Broadband deployment are working Here's the thing that Broadkin also notes the US telecom analysis goes from the end of 2015 to June 2017 Keep that in mind nothing Later than June 2017 The repeal of the open internet guidelines or as many people call it the repeal of net neutrality was approved December approved December 2017 and didn't go into effect until the next June 2018 just this year Also charter in Verizon both said this year that they're reducing capital expenditures And US telecom is repeating its argument that the government should increase its subsidies to ISPs To help roll out broadband in areas where it is lacking. So just the facts the increase in coverage and investment happened before The repeal of net neutrality was approved much less before it went into action and The telecoms are now asking for more government money Yeah That's what they do, you know, that is that is their move They they want to be required to do less and they would prefer a bag of free money to do to do it look, I Was one of those that Was not to upset about the repeal of the open internet guidelines However, I do believe that if the idea here is to spur Investment and innovation then it is up to us to hold these companies Accountable to do so and either you are you aren't and and I think that this is something that a Jeep I is derelict and is in his duties of you know, you can't just look at this press release and say hey look It's working when very obviously that's not what it says Yeah, I think that's what bothers me. It's not so much I've made my my view clear that I think new legislation I really wish that we would have a conversation about reality at some point on the show And the new legislation is what I think fixes a lot of these problems and we've gone over that ground a lot It just irks me that they're like hey check out these great numbers that apply to not our argument It's like don't hold up two and two and try to convince me it's five. You're not magicians The Australian Parliament passed a bill Thursday to allow security agencies to issue technical notices requiring companies to help the government hack An implant malware undermine encryption or insert backdoors The bill includes fines of up to an Australian 10 million dollars That is 7.3 million dollars here in the US for institutions and Prison terms for individuals for failing to hand over data linked to suspended illegal or suspected illegal activities the law will require security agencies to seek warrants in order to obtain the data and The legislation will be subject to a review by a parliamentary committee for 12 months They did put some amendments on this They did water it down a little bit from what it had been but the law in Australia now will be That with a warrant the police can come to a company and say you have to give us this data We don't care if it's end to end encrypted and you don't have the key You've got to figure it out. So whether that means you hack into your own system or If you have already put a system in place to be able to accommodate our request That's up to you is the way this seems to be working And of course the upshot is that a lot of companies are going to put backdoors in because that's the most That's the easiest way to comply with any of these requests that might come down the pike And then we get back into the argument of well if you've weakened encryption for one possible reason You are like more likely to have a breach and and I don't have these numbers But I'm curious how many people in Australia have actually been negatively affected by an actual data breach Versus how many have been affected by actual terrorism and there are people who have been affected on both sides One it can be more devastating than the other right you can lose your life from terrorism You're probably not losing your life from a data breach But I'd like to have those numbers because it is far more widespread on the data breach side There's no doubt. I just don't know how much well not to mention the fact that I think this might be Looking at where the puck is versus where the puck is going We are an increasingly digital world and we've seen that there are consequences that voters care about more and more about things That you can triangulate and target based on data breaches You know, there's there's a great Recommended podcast that I would like to toss out dark net diaries. They had a great episode recently about IRS hacking right and and just not only how easy it is for you to get a tax return Spit back out to you with very easily available data and more so you'd have to wonder whether or not some of these like Experien hacks, it's not just to flip the the the social security numbers for quick for cash You can use these for other more devastating Matters so I think that this is a bad idea and and I would like to chide the Australian parliament Is that the appropriate Australian move to chide? Let us know I think that there are other colorful language that also starts with that word that they would probably use chunder. I don't know Sure China says it intends to make the results of publicly funded research free to read immediately on publications It's a big deal in the academic world China's national science library It's national science and technology library and its natural science foundation All pledge to support something called plan s an initiative launched at september by a group of european funders To ensure that by 2020 Any scientist making papers? Makes them immediately open if they're going to get money from the folks in plan s They're going to make them immediately open and now three of china's biggest research funding Operations are part of plan s Not sure exactly how they're going to implement it. There's still some questions there, but they're generally part of this plan s bars Participating scientists from publishing their work behind a paywall after 2020 They say as soon as 2020 rolls around when you publish with our funds You have to make your research open The only way you can publish your work in a journal that has a paywall is if you archive that manuscript immediately With an open publishing license So europe's on board Several organizations in china are on board in the united states only the bill and melinda gates foundation Is on board with plan s Yeah, you know that this is an interesting movement and uh, there there's I think a larger conversation that can be had in terms of the way that uh, Not only in the united states, but really worldwide The partnership Has it though it might be between universities and journals might not be serving us in in the best possible way in in in an internet age uh, I think that they're uh, you know, there was a A an idea put forth a couple weeks ago about the idea of having a Journal that was literally just there for anonymous Uh publications of of certain, uh, you know, so people wouldn't be putting their name on it Which is usually the opposite of the thing that you want to do if you're a researcher because you want to get all the credit For it, but these would be For experiments and datasets that are my controversial that would taint your career If if you were to be uh put up to it So I think there's a lot of ways that we can rethink this. This is a good idea in my opinion Yeah, it's a great idea and it's awesome to see more organizations getting on board with it Amazon is opening a new program called alexa answers to invite users to help answer questions that might stump the assistant Amazon has been running an internal beta of the program over the past month with employees adding more than a hundred thousand question responses to the system Amazon will start sending out invitations to participants today Although the company didn't say how many Users can add 300 character contributions to the special answers website with questions that the assistant doesn't have the answers for when uh When read these answers will be prefaced with the phrase an amazon user says Users will be able to vote answers up or down and too many down votes will get the answer removed The only thing that makes me at all not dread this is the fact that it's invite only Uh, that's the only break on this being gamed like crazy. I'm not Sure, I believe that amazon thinks it's a good idea to just let these things be published They must have curation on one end to make sure that the silly answer would Assume you would assume in this day and age Uh, so I I'm going to assume that and the fact that you have to be invited in Means that not just anybody can log on and start, you know coming up with with crazy answers to stuff But even then let's leave out the trolls People don't always have the right answer even though they think they do And you're people who have the right answer that have the wrong answer Even though they think it's right may find a large number of people agree with them and never get voted down I don't know. This is the best way to do this I'm curious as to Why they didn't try to partner with somebody This seems like an opportunity for amazon to go to Relevant experts on the issues that they are that they feel that they need beefed up on and instead of saying amazon users say Whatever Semi-trusted source says Bleep blop bloop. Yeah Yeah, I that's a great idea or at the very least say We'll have a bunch of people answer these and then we'll curate the ones and buy You know, oh most frequently people say this so that's probably right or at least we'll have some fact checkers or something because Yeah, I mean this does have one of those like misty eyed Internet optimism To it right like like ah, no, don't worry. We'll get it right and it's like 2009 on buzz out loud I'm super excited about this like how how smart of amazon to use the wisdom of the crowds And that's the problem is is that at when it's on wikipedia and somebody changes, uh, you know Franklin pierces birthday to poop Uh and takes a screen grab of it It's like there for a second and then somebody flips because they have a very well-worn system for that They do they do Uh, I think there's something visceral to your personal assistant telling you that franklin pierce's president is indeed poop Well folks, uh, we believe that franklin pierce was one of the most underrated presidents of the united states Uh, and in a tribute to him we create a short version of the daily tech news show every day How does that relate to franklin pierce? Well, you obviously don't know enough about franklin pierce But just subscribe to daily tech headlines and get all of your tech news in about five minutes at daily tech headlines dot com All right, let's get to the big story. Wednesday, huawei cfo mung wang zhu who's also known as sabrina Was arrested while transferring between flights in vancouver Uh mung is also one of four deputy chairs Uh and daughter of huawei founder ren shengfei now This is a little bit hard to parse. I think if you don't know a lot of things about the huawei founding family It's a family affair. Uh, she is the era parent even though she's one of four deputy chairs There's a lot of corporate politics going on here But ren shengfei is a former pl. A engineer and that's the key thing to know Because this person was once part of the army. He is not trusted by many other people outside of china now We've had a lot of things going on with huawei Uh new zealand deciding not to use it in their infrastructure We had the story about bt pulling it out of the core and saying we just we just pull We pull it out of the core because we pulled it out of the core everywhere. It didn't have to do with huawei being insecure However, there is a campaign led by the united states Uh to oppose using huawei's network Secure network infrastructure because of security concerns. This isn't about the handsets This is about their switches and routers and things like that So what happened was the canadian justice department? Uh arrested her while she was transferring flights in vancouver Said she has sought for extradition to the united states set a bail hearing for friday And cited a publication ban preventing any other details from being released. They say that mung herself Doesn't want any of the details released Although china is complaining that they don't know why she was arrested They don't have sufficient knowledge on that source told the globe and mail the us alleges that mung tried to evade The embargo against iran. That's what they pinned zte on So it looks like they may be trying to do that To huawei as well the wall street journal reported in april that the us was investigating huawei on those very grounds So that would make sense Huawei says it doesn't have any information on the charges or very little anyway And is unaware of any wrongdoing as you might expect now Here's another piece of information to know before we start talking about this Reuters sources say That huawei had a scheme to use the global banking system to evade us sanctions against iran that that's what was being investigated The us has been investigating the company's use of hsbc holdings To make illegal transactions involving iran back in 2012 hsbc did pay $1.92 billion and enter into a deferred prosecution agreement with the us attorney in brooklyn For violating us sanctions and money laundering laws and it's that us attorney in brooklyn who is conducting the investigation of huawei So you start to connect the dots here It does look like that's what's going on however Justin as host of politics politics politics you well know there's a lot of other stuff going on between china and the us as well Oh boy is there and not only are we currently in the middle of a well more the beginning of a 90 day ceasefire That was negotiated between president donald trump uh and president g of china at the g20 summit in argentina last week But uh, we are also in a a big moment of the trump white house. I mean look from a broader a broader level Donald trump was elected and ran In part with the idea being that china is the largest potential Force that the us needs to contend with that basically being tough on china now would Head off the the possibility of uh, you know global dominance by china in the next 100 years, right or Global another cold war level kind of conflict with with the united states And so part of that part of what seeps through into that are things that we heard earlier this year a memo surfacing That the trump white house was floating the idea of possibly nationalizing the 5g rollout, which is complicated and Unlikely to happen, but that's how concerned they were with zte in huawei becoming players more Players in that game because they will be able to price their components at a level that telecoms would not be able to resist This is in my opinion The united states trying to poison the well further with huawei and as we've seen huawei is saying well look Sure, uh, you know even Sabrina as as i'm going to call her because so i don't butcher her name Uh has said hey look Yeah, we're gonna avoid we're gonna evade the bands. We're not going to listen to the rules They set up because the rules that they've set up for us basically kill the company or at least kill international expansion So we have one of two choices either. We try to go around them or we slowly wither and die What do you think we're going to choose? Yeah, and I I think Huawei is not zte huawei is the second largest phone manufacturer in the world second to samsung uh, they operate mostly in entirely outside of the united states market, uh, so It's quite possible with their kirin processors and their own supply chains that they could weather a storm much better than zte could This isn't about shutting down huawei There's south china morning post has lots of has a transcript with lots of quotes of mung and ren the the founder and ceo talking about When it's okay to just go around the rules in fact ren is quoted as saying we must not bind ourselves up just because the us is attacking us So they don't consider us regulations to be a fatal threat to the company On the other hand, I not actually not on the other hand Also, interesting Is that this might have less to do with the trade war than we think it might not even have as much to do with the huawei suppression attempt by the united states as we think as tech crunch pointed out china is preventing the two american children of luchang ming from leaving the country Uh until their father returns to the mainland to face a criminal justice charge of alleged bank fraud This is a big deal in diplomatic circles The us is protested against it. They are letting the children get counsel from the us, but they're not letting them leave It's it's called uh, they're preventing their exit of the country because even though they have us passports They're considered to be of of chinese origin or at least the mother is whereas the father was born in the us He is not even going near china. So this is their way of trying to get him back Maybe arresting the cfo of huawei Is a is a move to try to have a bargaining chip For these two things the other thing that's crazy about this is that canada stepped in and did this for the united states At a time when canada seemed to be pivoting towards china and saying hey, let's do a trade deal Yes, so I am less inclined to believe that these are necessarily related although We certainly are dealing with an administration that you know, uh prides themselves on the leverage they can create Uh, you know before a deal and all leverage is leverage but There's a very careful dance that's being that that's going on now and it's uh right now you have national security aide john bolton telling mpr that he was aware That uh, sabrina was going to be arrested Again, this arrest happened the day of the g20 dinner Between trump and g that's where this ceasefire was officially kind of coronated The white house is saying that trump did not know about this before the dinner so I will believe that something that it is a diplomatic play When we start seeing it on the twitter feed because in in general specifically with people Uh and and hostages and stuff like that our president has not shied away from naming them and and uh saying that they need to uh come home So if if if this is a leverage play there I think we will see that played out more publicly than I think the more esoteric idea Which is where what I think is more likely that the united states is very very interested In damaging wallways reputation here and abroad Uh, and and I think that that is what this has more to do with Than uh than anything else again. You said that they are the second biggest a handset manufacturer in the world, right? Yeah, if they were allowed to produce in america They might be number one. I mean like we are we are talking about that level of success and if you believe that they are Literally a back door for the people's liberation army Then that's a problem. Yeah Uh, and there's less concern about the handsets than there is about the network. Yeah. Yeah. No. No. Yeah The network said is is is the bigger the bigger element here But if you're wondering how does this affect me? Well, if you're in the us not much Although if you had your eye on a hallway phone, uh, it becomes harder To to think that you're going to be able to to have that come easy Although you still probably be able to buy one and have it imported. There's no import ban yet. We'll see also it does uh impact The potential futures of other manufacturers if you're a one plus fan You might start to get a little more nervous. Uh, there's no reason to think that one plus would be affected But you know, they came for zte now they've come for huawei Who might be next? There's lenovo on the docket. Uh, you know, it's are they playing by the rules? These are multinational companies, but they've got huge presences Within china so as you get a little closer and closer to them And you start to worry a little more and more about them And if you're in europe and you're a big fan of the mate phone or or the honor phones Uh, this this could impact you because if if this does materially impact huawei's ability to manufacture And it does hurt their business again I don't think it's going to take them down like zte where they have to pause operations But it might reduce things it might reduce manufacturing the us could make it hard on huawei to do their business Then that could impact you in the european market as well Well, thanks to all of you who participate in our subreddit You can submit stories and vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit.com This was definitely top of the subreddit today Uh, and also get in there and chat with other folks if you're a facebook user There's lots of facebook uh, dts fans. You can find them at facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show Justin robber young. Thank you for bringing your insight to this because I know you're you're sort of covering this from the other side as well Tell folks about what else you've got going on. Well, uh, of course, if you if you like my uh political ramblings Then you can sign up for my free political newsletter at free political newsletter dot com five days a week five stories a day Usually gifts mostly hot takes sometimes It's uh been been a wild one over the last few weeks And of course, uh, you can uh, listen to my politics podcast politics politics politics on all of your podcasting apps Uh, folks, if you're not a subscriber to the patreon at the associate producer level, that's five dollars a month That's 25 cents a show you are missing out I put an editor's desk audio column out today that describes how I use feedly to make the show for those of you interested But the big attraction is roger chang's column today Uh is about his black friday experience and includes The super secret roger chang algorithm for how to decide if a deal is really worth the money You it's really good. You've got to check this out. It involves snacks get it get it Go become a member at patreon.com slash dtns Our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m eastern 21 30 utc You can find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash Live and join us tomorrow when shannon morse is back on the show and len parolta is back as well talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Another finely produced effort by roger chang That was like a t-bone Level of like discussion and discourse so meaty so meaty. There's also two of you justin Uh, yeah, I don't know what happened. I crashed and and and then I burned What if this was the branching point of an alternate reality so that justin now continues on With his life oblivious Norbert young That is our leading suspicion now as we hunt for the real crashers In the movie crashers Yes Oh, I like this one my way or the hua hua My way or the hua hua. That's good. Did you hear that one before? I don't know. I don't think so. It's good. Uh encryption. It's australian for insecure mate It's pretty funny, uh, where's the other one getting around the hua hua Yeah, I like my way or the hua hua or encryption. It's australian for insecure Well, I think we got to go with hua hua, right if we at all have anything good and that's good. So yeah, I mean there's I mean it's such a It's such a multi-threaded topic because as you both have said, I mean there's more at play than just what's being said at face value Oh, almost definitely and you know, I I tend not to want to throw out Theories like hey, maybe it's a bargaining chip But as unlikely as it might be It's still a possibility like it's a legitimate possibility that that's if not what's going on part of what's going on Because most of these things are Multi there's multiple purposes at play anyway. I'm not saying that one is part of it No, no, no, I I know I know The only reason why I would say that that is less likely to me is because that move is done by china all the time Uh, uh, they they very often refuse if you are a chinese national There's more than one of these you're right. Yeah. Yeah, this is so it's like yes, this is a very famous one Now and yes, it is But because the kids are american But it's it's just it's it's very I don't know to me it seems like it belongs more on the tree of the Sustained drumbeat from the state department and the defense department that huawei is able to your technological threat Entertain me if you will uh With this idea you're you're a president Who in uh in part of your day have been Just frustrated by the fact that china does do this Among the many things you're frustrated with the china keeps doing one is they keep doing these Taking keeping u.s citizens from returning to the united states We got to do something about this one of them when we get an opportunity We got to do something about this now. You're also this same president in a meeting who's Part of like, okay. Well, how's our drumbeat on huawei going? What are our wins and they're like, well, we might be able to bust mung Uh and and and and get the canadiens on our side Great do it because not only will that help me with my trade war But it will also help me with this other thing that's been bugging me to I mean sure I I think that that would Some and this is a gut feeling right this is not this is not any kind of studied Uh, I don't have any studied research on this. However My gut feeling is that There If this were something that We're there for leverage In a big way We would have had a more cool. You know about it from the white house China needs to do something about these these children and we would have been hearing that drumbeat. Yes I mean look, he's not make sense The president has with north korea and and with the view, uh You know other situations has been very vocal about When people are held, you know, uh Held against her will yeah, you know that that's something that he likes It's a very populous thing to do Americans are not being allowed to return home We need to stick up for Americans that that is on brand for him if you will so That is something I But now look if tomorrow we wake up and both those kids are named in a tweet I'm totally on board with you. I I I just think he he would squeeze there and also it's like What what was really kind of interesting about this is that it The moon kind of waxes and wanes with our president when it comes to uh Negotiating and it's either very mean Or very nice And we are in a very nice phase There's a lot of a lot of honorariums being used in a way that uh, You know oftentimes when it's very mean their nicknames you know, so This is like A good faith, you know when when when he wants to be critical when he's being very nice There's a lot of like You know, we're gonna be tough on a deal But dad gummit, I think that it'll work out for both of us When win we want to win win. Yeah, yeah Like and when he's being mean it's a lot of You know, uh What we heard on the campaign trail that that they're smart. We're stupid. We need to get smart. This is you know, uh, You know, they're laughing at us. Uh, this is a the the worst deal ever made in the history of deals Like that's that's normally what we get when he's being aggressive or in the case of north korea You know something even You know, I think north korea is a nuclear enabled country. You just can't make that part of the The situation like it just doesn't Yeah, I mean, look, I that's that that that's a whole The whole other thing I'm actually very glad That there is more attention being paid to china now because They are only an increasing uh part of our international Uh, our our international discourse basically our community and There are things that are done in china that are You know worth worth another glance uh, you know You know part of it just might be a multi pronged play at kind of weakening g because You know for for for all the the The the bluster at huawei it just happens to be the most convenient target It has links to the military. It is a very large state backed organization. And so it's a very prime Target, but like it's one of those things as china moves forward with its belt and road initiative if you can put and this is this goes back to what Justin's uh what you were saying about poisoning the well If you can put a question mark on huawei that can put it therefore put a question mark over chinese investment Overall and if you can do that you can then possibly Put a wedge between You know like hey, do you want to take money from these guys who may not be playing on the level with you or You know or take money from us and yet you're gonna have the same terms But we're gonna put in writing and our legal system will back it up So if you if you need a recourse or something you you have somewhere to turn to because Stuff that we didn't even get into hold on hold on two things. I want to clarify roger. You said it's state backed. Is it Well, no, I shouldn't say state backed state supported. Is it Well in the in the case of yeah huawei is is often touted as one of the infrastructure partners when china goes abroad Looking for investment. That's that's that's like calling verizon state supported Well, no, that's why that's why I'm sorry. I didn't mean states apart But I mean when you say state backed though that makes people think oh china owns it No, no, no, no china does not own it. Okay. I just wanted to make that clear I will say what's a better way of phrasing that like it's it's Someone china says hey look partner with these guys They're big. They have all the infrastructure It's one of china's biggest biggest companies so the government's also going to promote it because that that what's good for I think that there is a suspicion obviously look the the the government of china is a Byzantine and secretive Organization, right that there is there's not exactly, you know, a level of transparency for a lot of this kind of stuff All I will say is I think that there is a suspicion That certain companies do not get as big as they get unless they're That's just part of china though. That's different than that I I definitely hear some arguments based on the idea. Well, china owns huawei therefore and it's like well, no, it's not that There's Stuff going on that we can't see that's absolutely possible. That's also possible in the united states in a lot of cases Uh, and and it's certainly different in china because it's a different country But I just I if we're going to criticize something I like to criticize it for the right reasons and I want to No, no, you're right. Um, I just I I don't have the the right phrase To say that it has the favor it is a favorite of the current chinese government. That's a good way to put it Yeah, um, you know, and you know, if you want to get super You know Conspiracy-minded about it. It's a continuing power struggle in the chinese communist party Uh, yeah, well, that's a different that's That How does that have to do directly with huawei though? Uh so Go ahead go ahead roger good. Oh, no, I was just saying like for the past Three years the the anti-corruption drive that targeted many companies that were a favorite of Uh, the previous administration china were targeted Yeah, and so I just it just could be one of those things where It's it's not that there's one master plan at work and like, you know, hollywood movies out But everyone is going to jump on the train that that goes off in their direction When it wouldn't you know when it's when it's what's favorite when it's favorable to them So, I don't know All right Go ahead a few other things that I think are very important to this story that we didn't get to number one Uh as roger said There is a tremendous the other end of this like it's not just that the united states wants to poison the well for huawei not only Uh domestically but also abroad there's been rumors that they have uh that they are considering offering subsidies to other countries to swear off huawei they uh the merger of qualcom and broadcom which was blocked by the white house The rumor on that was that uh the state department didn't want Qualcomm to be weakened because they want a We we covered that on dts. So if you're a regular listener, you probably you probably are familiar with that Uh, and then on the other end qualcomm wanted to acquire uh What was it and next nxp Uh, and that was blocked by china that china didn't want uh that and and now after this g20 summit Uh, donald trump has come out and said well, you know, I think if they were to wind up getting that deal together again that maybe She would approve it. Uh, so there's there's a lot Going on here in terms of uh the the components the build out of the 5g network is something that the the united states government feels is a now or Like either we we push back on this right now as hard as we can or we have a persisted problem for the next However many years The other thing about hallway that I I hear bandied about and it's not necessarily inaccurate, but I wonder Just how true it is Is it's links to the military Usually it's predicated on the fact that that founder ren is a former pla engineer But I mean lots of people used to be in the service in the united states and start companies And it doesn't mean they have links to the military necessarily on the other hand I think ren probably has some links to the military And I think it would be naive not to assume that those connections he might still have Uh are are certainly helpful. What that means though is what I don't know It's easy to jump to the conclusion like and therefore The pla puts spy things and all the things that walloway makes the fact is that's that's just Overreacting and that's not the way it works What is happening is very interesting to me because Despite some rather Intensive audits by countries like the united kingdom No one has been able to find a smoking gun in a walloway switch like they have found in a sysco switch They have found problems with us manufactured Networking equipment. Nobody's really found anything with walloway So either they're really good or those switches are somewhere else and they haven't they haven't discovered it And yet the united states is convinced that that's the problem They are really going after walloway. Is it just because walloway is a big company? Is it because they don't there or is it because they know something about those Manufacturing of equipment that we don't know and can't see and my last point here. Justin is Does this tie into that weird bloomberg story Where every company said no this didn't happen, but bloomberg swore they had 18 whatever it was sources who said yes. No china was putting Things into the the manufacturing. I feel like there's Like 10 years 15 years from now There's going to be a book that explains what was really going on with all this and why it through our weird prism We're seeing it this way look There is whether or not there is a smoking gun In the switch right now. I think the the line of thought is if they become The global player in this space It is inevitable that we will see it even let's say that walloway is 100 clean, right? Does it matter if what we're saying isn't true now? We think it will be so we have to stop them now based on based on the pattern a pattern of behavior and how aggressive china has been with You know that that kind of espionage I think the the the thought is if they're not actively working now That that target would be too ripe for the chinese government to just leave alone for the sanctity Of privacy of citizens of other nations by the way Not exempting the united states from being just as active in this sort of thing We're just just that we're talking about walloway right now. Well, I mean and it There's a confluence of events that kind of cast a negative light on it, right whether it's You know the alleged influence in Australia of of uh, you know, chinese You know not just chinese companies, but chinese agents in the country, you know kind of uh, uh, you know pushing little discourse More favorably toward a more favorable reception of china in the country You know that everyone just has this kind of idea and then It's tainted. So whether or not walloway is Or is not clean is just it just kind of has carries with it that same level of suspicion And what you know what to to what jesse was saying like just because someone buys a big piece of land You know right next to your office building doesn't mean they have anything nefarious in their plan But down the road they could build like, you know a giant surveillance machine right there next to even though You know for the time being just a bunch of uh, orange groves So you're saying just because someone buys seven acres in rural texas Doesn't mean they have no various plans No nefarious plans not yet Uh, well, thanks everybody for hanging out with this. Uh, I hope we've we've if not shined any light at least helped sparked New ways to think about this the sort of stuff because it's a complex situation Not all the facts are going to be known in something like this because each side benefits from obfuscating What's happening. Um, but there's there's there's real fire under this smoke For sure, uh video folks. That's it. Thanks so much for watching audio folks stick around. There's more to come