 Good afternoon, and you're very welcome. I'm Alex White, Director General of the Institute of International European Affairs, and it's great to welcome you to this afternoon's webinar, which is part of the Rethink Energy Series co-organized by ourselves at the Institute and the ESB. We're delighted to be joined today from Brussels by Ms Ditta Jürgensen, who is Director General for Energy at the European Commission. Ms Jürgensen became Director General for Energy on the 1st of August 2019. That capacity, she leads the Director Generalate in its efforts to ensure access to affordable, secure, reliable and clean energy for all Europeans to promote efficient production and use of energy and to drive the process of becoming the first climate neutral continent whilst contributing to Europe's sustainable growth and job creation. Before assuming her current role, Ms Jürgensen served in a wide variety of roles in the Commission, including Head of Cabinet for Commissioner Margrethe Westerger, and she also has held the headship of the Head of Unit position and Director positions in the Director Generalate for, can I ever get that right, Directorate General for trade. So it's terrific to have such a distinguished speaker with us this afternoon, and Ms Jürgens is going to speak to us for about 20 minutes, 20 to 25 minutes, and then we go to a Q&A. You can join that discussion and you can ask a question using the Q&A, usual Q&A function there on Zoom. So if your name and affiliation, if you don't mind, if you are asking a question, it's always good to know who we have and whether you have an organization that you're representing. You can start sending the questions in any time you like. So if something occurs to you, even at the beginning of the talk, you can put the question in and it'll be there for us when Ms Jürgensen has finished her presentation. I find her that the presentation and the Q&A today are both on the record. Before Ms Jürgensen addresses you, I'm delighted to invite Paddy Hayes, Chief Executive of the ESB, and our collaborator, our close collaborator for this event and indeed all of this series of events. And it's great to have you with us Paddy. I know you're going to pick the opportunity maybe to say a few words and please do that and then we get going with our webinar. Thank you so much Paddy. So thank you very much. Thank you very much Alex and good afternoon to everyone. I'm very pleased to be associated with the Rethink Energy Lecture Series with the IIEA and it's my great pleasure to add my welcome to Alex's and to welcome you to today's lecture on behalf of the ESB. A warm welcome from us to our guest speaker, Dieter Jürgensen, who's, as Alex said, Director General for DGNR. It's a really important role and Director General, we're honored to have you with us today and to be able to listen to your insights. Before I say anything else, I'd just like to acknowledge the impact that Storm Debbie has had on many of our customers in Ireland this morning. I hope that those of you joining us haven't been affected. And I know that, well, I can assure you that the ESB networks crews are working to restore electricity across the country as safely and as quickly as possible. And I know a number of people will be aware that recently ESB networks was replaced to be able to support our European colleagues from Enidus in France, and to help restore supply in Brittany after the aftermath of Storm here on. So lots of challenging times specifically at the moment in the electricity sector may be driven by climate, but more generally the past two years have been incredibly challenging time for the electricity sector in Europe. And we know that the European Commission and particularly the energy directorate has done really excellent work to protect customers to support energy security and to notwithstanding the challenges to continue to drive the energy transition. The REAP, our EU plan has set Europe on a faster trajectory away from imported fossil fuels and continuing the direction towards a more sustainable future as well as helping to stabilise energy prices in Europe this year. And that's been really critically important. In ESB, we appreciate that zero carbon electricity is a necessity for a climate neutral economy. We know that developing and connecting low carbon generation and renewables is a key to reducing the carbon intensity of electricity. We understand that helping our customers to use that increasingly clean, low carbon electricity and heat and transport in industry, doing that in a competitive way is a key to decarbonising our economy and hitting our climate goals. But we also know that it won't be easy. It hasn't been easy so far and it's getting more challenging as we're trying to move further and faster. The rate of annual emission reductions delivered over the past decade probably needs to more than double in the years ahead so that we achieve a 55% reduction by 2030. So it really is a time for delivery and we get that sense. I was in Brussels last week and we really get that sense from Europe that it's a time for delivery now. And having clear, coherent, ensuring policy frameworks at European national level isn't just very helpful in this regard, it's an absolute necessity. And that shared clarity and purpose and determination in the face of an uncertain future. It really is supportive of the innovation we need around new technologies and it really helps to facilitate the sort of investment and the implementation and delivery that's going to be absolutely necessary and essential for securing the secure and sustainable energy future. And so I'm really grateful to the IAA for setting up this lecture series, particularly to the Director General of DGNR for taking the time to share our insights today. And ladies and gentlemen, then I just give you DGNR over to you, Dita. Thank you very much and greetings to everyone from Brussels. I think what you've just said, Paddy, about the storm Debbie and the impact on the energy sector really is a very good example of the challenges we see in relation to energy and climate and making sure that we have secure access to energy across the European Union. So I think a very timely event today. Thank you very much to the IAA for having organized it and for having invited me. It's an honor to be here with you this afternoon. And what I would like to do over this coming hour is to set out, first of all, our energy policy. What is the policy we're building towards climate change, towards climate neutrality and the green transition that is necessary to achieving that. But also, of course, how have we handled the energy crisis that is still ongoing across the European Union and really a global crisis. And in doing that, I have three main points. The first one is the European Green Deal that was established in 2019 as our main policy objective. Really, how do we put all of our policy instruments together to work towards climate neutrality in 2050? And also, how has that agenda actually been reinforced by the crisis we have seen following the Russian invasion into Ukraine through our power EU plan. And that links into my second point, which is how have we responded to this global energy crisis that really had its epicenter in Europe. And how have we made sure that our response aligns with the green transition and with the European Green Deal. And my third point is that all of this, of course, takes place in a global environment in an important geopolitical challenging set of circumstances. And I think international cooperation is absolutely necessary for us to achieve our goals both when it comes to climate and when it comes to energy security. And so my last and third, my third and last point will be about the international cooperation and of course, looking ahead to COP28, which will start in just a few weeks from now. So on the first point, the Green Deal, that really has been our main priority since 2019, since the last election to the European Parliament just four years ago. How do we best ensure climate neutrality by 2050? And of course, we in the European Union cannot alone address climate change, but we can do a lot already to lower emissions within the European Union. And we can do a lot to help strengthen that work also at global level to help respect our target, our threshold for not going above 1.5 degrees Celsius as agreed in the Paris Agreement. And we're not actually on track. We need to do a lot more. And so the focus is indeed on implementation and on making things happen. So in the European Green Deal, we have put together all of the different policy instruments that can contribute to climate change mitigation to lowering greenhouse gas emissions. And we have agreed that we should lower greenhouse gas emissions by at least 55% in 2030. What we have shown over the last years is that we can actually grow our economy, increase our GDP while we lower greenhouse gas emissions. So it is possible. What we also know is that about two thirds of greenhouse gas emissions come from the energy sector, either from production of energy or from consumption of energy. And so in other words, in order to significantly lower our greenhouse gas emissions, we really have to transform our energy system. And so that is what what we're working on here together with the 27 member states in the European Union. And we are doing it through a package of measures, we call it fit for 55, that really aims to to build the best possible regulatory framework to incentivize and facilitate the change that is necessary in the energy system, so that we make sure that all Europeans have access to affordable, secure and clean green energy. And we do that by updating our renewables energy directive setting targets for renewable energy. We do that by updating our energy efficiency directive, setting targets and measures for being more energy efficient and make better use of the energy we have. And for example, in relation to buildings with the energy performance and buildings directive. We also do it by clarifying rules around hydrogen green hydrogen is a new energy carrier, and by clarifying the rules for a decarbonized gas market, as well as reducing methane emissions that are related to the energy sector. And there's a lot more there, but it's a very, very long list. But what I can assure you is that we are taking action really across all policy areas to achieve climate neutrality in 2050, with a 55% reduction by 2030. Now, my second point relates to the energy crisis and how we have responded to that. And as I said, our response to the energy crisis has actually reinforced the work that we're doing to transform our energy system and to achieve climate neutrality. So Russia invaded Ukraine on the 24th of February 2022. And it quickly became very clear that one of the impacts of that for the European Union specifically was in the energy sector, because we had been highly dependent on Russia and especially on Russian fossil gas for our energy and energy security across the European Union. So in March 2022, just a few weeks after the invasion by Russia, we adopted what we call the repower EU plan that aims to reduce quickly our dependence on Russian fossil fuels in our energy system and align with, of course, with our Green Deal objectives. And, and to give you the numbers to give you the context, we were dependent before the war on Russian fossil gas for 45% of our total consumption. And we needed to bring that down by two thirds by the end of 2022. So quite an ambitious target that we set for ourselves, but a necessary one given the context of the Russian war in Ukraine and the lowering Russian supplies to the European Union. So the repower EU plan builds on three pillars. The first one is to reduce our consumption. And essentially we know that there are many things that are not in our control. We cannot control supply from others. We cannot control the demand in other important markets. The Chinese demand is out of our control, but we can control our own energy demand and our own energy savings. And so the first target really was to lower our energy demand, reducing energy being more energy efficient, putting in place savings so as to lower the, lower the dependence on Russia. But of course, also to mitigate the climate change impact that we see from our, from our energy system. Now, in addition to energy savings, we've also decided under repower EU to accelerate the deployment of renewable energy in the European energy system. So to essentially accelerate the green deal, accelerate the rollout of renewable energy so that these renewable energy sources can replace the fossil sources as much and as quickly as possible. And then the third pillar is that we still need molecules in the system. We still need some fossil molecules in the system. We don't yet have enough clean energy sources to cover all of our demand. And so to the extent we still use molecules, we set out a plan to diversify so that we would not be as dependent on anyone supplier, but really be safer in a more diversified global market. And of course, replace the fossil molecules by cleaner molecules, wherever that is possible, such as biomethane, which is an important, an important substitute and of course, green hydrogen. And so how did we do that? Well, we took a number of specific emergency measures, but we also agreed to strengthen our ambition to increase our ambition when it comes to energy efficiency and renewables targets. And that has now been agreed by two co-legislatures, the 27 member states and council and of course the European Parliament. So we now have a target for renewable energy of 42.5% in 2030 with an aim with an unbinding aim for 45%, which goes beyond what we had originally proposed. And throughout this first year of the crisis, the winter of 22 and going into 23, 24, into 22, 23, we achieved a significant number of milestones. And we're now much better placed, much better prepared for going to this next winter in what is a continued energy crisis. First of all, as I mentioned, demand reduction, the measures we took there have been efficient. And we have lowered our demand for natural gas by 18% over the first year of the measures. And this year we are on track to be above 21% savings, a 21% saving compared to the preceding five years. And so we have extended our energy savings measure, and that should save us about 60 billion cubic meters of natural gas a year. And again, to put the 60 billion cubic meters into context, our overall consumption before the crisis was 400 billion cubic meters. So 60% is quite a significant share of that. Out of the 400 billion cubic meters, about 155 billion cubic meters came from Russia. We have significantly reduced that share. So going below the 45% that we had before the war to about 24% in 2022. And now in 2023 in the first eight months of the year, and we saw about 15% Russian share in our gas system. So a significant reduction in line with our repower you objectives. And what we've managed to do is to replace that Russian gas with other sources. Now, most importantly, as I said, we have reduced our demand. So quite a significant share is simply not replaced with reduced amount or using cleaner sources such as renewable energy. And where we still need fossil gas in the system and we still do, we have now benefited from a significant increase in pipeline supplies from Norway and other suppliers in the region. And then we've seen a very, very significant increase in the import of liquid natural gas, LNG. It goes from about 70 billion cubic meters before the war to about 117 billion cubic meters last year. And here, so that's an increase of 73% with US being the main supplier up very, very significantly over these past few years. Now, I know that you in Ireland have not been significantly dependent on Russian gas. You don't have these pipeline connections that countries in continental Europe and Central and Eastern Europe have. But you have nonetheless in Ireland also carried out a significant effort to reduce consumption and help diversify. And that has been important both for your energy security, but of course also for the overall objectives within Europe. And I mentioned that an important pillar of our work on WPOWER EU was to accelerate the installment and the deployment of renewable energy. And 2020 EU, thanks for all of these efforts across the European Union really became a record year. We installed 58 gigawatt of renewable additional and that represents about 12 billion cubic meters of the gas that we wanted to save. And that was quite an important dent in the fossil consumption that this additional renewable energy has given. This has mainly been solar that has been the quick and easy one to install, but also additional wind. And so we saw these two sources wind and solar representing 22% of the overall electricity in the European Union. And for the first time ever it presenting a higher representing a higher share than natural gas. We expect in this year that new renewable will be even more. We expect to go to about 69 gigawatt, which would be an additional 13 billion cubic meters of natural gas. So again, this accelerated deployment of renewables really has helped replace natural gas in the system. And this should continue over the coming decade and beyond. If I may say a few words about how Ireland has fared in this and how Ireland has approached it. And I would like to do that because Ireland has actually brought very impressive action over these last year. Clearly demonstrating a commitment to decarbonizing the economy and the energy system, both setting sexual carbon budgets, but also upgrading the national renewable electricity target to 70% and then further up to 80% by 2030. So a very ambitious objective on which we congratulate you. These plans are in line with the common targets even go ahead of those go beyond those ambitions. And I know that there's a fairly tight, fairly tight timeframe to deliver these targets that will require us all to accelerate and simplify the permitting procedures and making sure that the overall systems are really fit and in place for managing these very large shares of renewable energy, intermittent energy into the electricity systems. We have done what we can at the European Union to address some of those challenges, but as Paddy also said at the opening, further efforts to implement to make things actually happen on the ground. That is where the focus is now and what we need to make happen. So that brings me to the next steps. We still have a lot of work to do to achieve our climate neutrality target and achieve our targets for 2030. So we still have ongoing negotiations for a lot of the legislative frameworks that we're working on and we continue that over the coming months, hoping to close by the end of this year or early in the new year. I'll not take you through all of these different legislative proposals and actions, but I would like to mention one that's particularly important across the European Union and also in Ireland. And that is our work to renew to update our electricity market design. So we have a common electricity market across the European Union and with our neighbouring countries and it has brought us energy security. Make sure we haven't suffered from blackouts except in the case of a specific store or other natural events. And it has also helped bring us the lowest possible prices across the European Union. But what we've seen during the crisis is that electricity prices were to a large extent driven by the very high natural gas prices. They were what we call the margin setting prices and they went up and were very volatile and that impacted electricity prices. So we can see that that has been a problem for European households, European consumers, European businesses. And we can also see that we don't have the best possible, we don't have the exact framework to help incentivise further investments into renewables. And so what we have suggested is to review the electricity market design so that we make the energy bills of European consumers and companies more independent from these short term, very volatile market developments that we've seen resulting from the high gas prices. And we are also in the review trying to make sure that it is easier to accelerate the deployment of renewables and phase out gas, including by an improvement of consumer rights and protections and by creating a stable and predictable framework for investments and overall better consumer protections. So this electricity market design is currently under discussion between the co-letters, the council and the parliament. And we hope to see an agreement over the coming months. A lot more is ongoing. One of the concerns we have had in relation to the high energy prices is of course, how will it impact households? What is the social impact of that? How do we secure a just transition? But also how does it impact our businesses and the competitiveness of the European Union? So we have taken a number of measures to strengthen European competitiveness, also in this time of high prices and energy crisis across the European Union, including with a Green Deal industrial plan, with a net zero industrial act to underpin our industrial manufacturing of the key technologies in the European Union and a critical raw materials to make sure that we have the stable supply chains that we need. And very recently we presented a European wind power action plan just a few weeks ago to address the challenges that the wind sector, the wind industry is currently facing across the European Union, despite the fact that we are deploying renewables and that we have ambitious targets. It's been difficult for the sector and so we have put in place a set of actions to really facilitate easing the permitting constraints, improving the auction systems, helping to de-risk and provide access to finance and help establish a level playing field globally. And that brings me to my last point, the global action, because in addition to the global action of our action for global competitiveness and global level playing field, as I mentioned, we need international partnerships to achieve climate neutrality going into COP28 and we also need international partnerships for our energy security. So COP28 that will take place in the United Arab Emirates at the end of this month is really a critical moment for our fight for climate neutrality and for being able globally to respect the 1.5 degree Celsius target that was agreed with the Paris Agreement. And right now we're not on track. We're not on track globally. We need to do a lot more. And so for the European Union, we're really going into COP28 with a high level of ambition using the global stock take to identify the best practices and policies and measures. How do we dismantle any barriers to the transition? How do we take action to mitigate climate change in addition of course to action for adaptation and the financing for loss and damage? As I mentioned before, the energy sector is absolutely critical in addressing the climate challenge and we therefore have two main initiatives in the field of energy. One is a call for a global pledge to triple renewable energy and double energy efficiency improvements by 2030, where we are trying to get as many countries as possible to sign up to this global pledge, which would bring us an additional 11 terawatt of renewable energy by 2030. We also suggest a methane emission reduction. So this is a follow up to what was the global methane pledge just a few years ago in Glasgow, where we commit to taking further action to implement it. There we now have 150 countries that have committed, but we can do more to make it happen. We do it in Europe and our regulatory framework, but also this global framework, this global partnership is critical for that. So Cup 28 is really an essential moment for our climate to address the climate crisis, but of course also to work with partners on energy and energy security. So the fight against climate change really is a shared global responsibility. It requires action from all of us, both commitment, but also real action on the ground from countries, from governments, from international organizations, from citizens, from companies. And this is also what we see in the European Union. In fact, there was a recent opinion poll across the European Union asking about important topics. And here in Ireland, 79% of people believe that climate change should be a priority for the government. And this reflects the very high priority given to this by all citizens across the European Union. And so that is what we're working on in the European Union to make sure there is a better and greener future for all and that all Europeans have access to affordable, green and secure energy. And with that, thank you very much for having listened to me. I look forward to your questions and comments. Thank you. Thank you very much. And for covering such considerable territory in those short 20 minutes. And putting us in the picture in terms of your own priorities and those of the Commission. And actually, on that point, first question that I have is it keeps to that kind of broad agenda approach. And Amara, who's the co-chair of our IEA climate and energy group here at the Institute, he's just saying, well, look, you know, given that there'll be a new College of Commissioners by the middle of next year. A new Parliament, obviously European Parliament is incoming also next year. If you foresee as your advice or your to-do list, what would be the top priorities on that to-do list that you would suggest to the incoming Commissioner and his or her team? Thank you very much. We are of course looking at that. So first of all, the mandate for the incoming Commission, President and Commissioners will of course be set by the European Council and by the European Parliament after the election. So we will see what are the outcomes there. But in the field of energy, I think there are just a couple of points that I would like to point to. So the first one we've already talked about is that we need to make sure that we bring results. We have a very good regulatory framework now with the FITFA 55 package with all the regulatory upgrades we've done. And now we need to make sure that there is implementation and that we deliver results, that we make things happen. And so I think we really need to focus on that, securing that there is this regulatory stability and predictability and making the change happen. The second point I would point to is that of competitiveness. And Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has already addressed this very clearly, both in her State of the Union and in other recent statements, concerned that European competitiveness has been impacted by the energy crisis, the high energy prices, together with a number of other uncertainties, essentially in global markets and in Europe. And so we need to make sure that we reap the economic benefits of the energy transition. The challenges we face is not because of the transition, it's because of the war and the energy crisis and the geopolitical and geopolitical context. So we need to make sure that we can actually reap the benefits of the energy transition and strengthen our competitiveness, including in the green technology sectors. And then the third point I would mention is the just transition. I think the energy crisis has impacted households across the European Union. And here it's really important that we make sure that everyone again benefits from the transition and can reap the benefits of what will be cheaper and cleaner energy sources across the European Union. So those are some of the points that I will certainly be making to the incoming leadership as recommendations. Thank you. Gemma O'Reilly from the National Economic and Social Council here in Dublin says, noted that you mentioned the deployment of renewables and allowing the replacement of natural gas. But she's wondering if you would make some observations maybe on the phase out of the dirtier fossil fuels, in particular coal. She's wondering if you'd like to comment on how you see the buildings and roads emissions trading system will play out in the energy sector. But anyway, quite not totally clear on if I've got the second part right. But the first part in relation to the dirtier fossil fuels coal, would you like to say anything about that? Yes. So indeed it's a very, very good question because we still have coal as part of the European energy mix for electricity generation. And clearly that has a much higher CO2 impact, a much higher methane emissions, a much more significant impact on the climate than natural gas does. So the phase out of coal is a priority. We have agreed among ourselves in the European Union to phase out coal. Different member states have different time frames for when to achieve the full phase out because it really depends on their national circumstances. How much coal do they have in the system? But we have agreed on a phase out of coal. And I think everything we can do to accelerate that phase out that that should be done in some cases. That actually means shifting from coal to natural gas power generation. And while natural gas is a fossil energy source and while it has an impact on climate, it's significantly lower than that of coal. So in that context, natural gas is also part of the energy transition and will remain part of our energy system. Bill Boucher, thanks you for your very insightful presentation. Have you any views on the RE100 initiative? Thank you very much for that question, Bill. So I assume you mean the initiative to go for 100% renewables in our energy system. And I think there's been a lot of interesting work and analysis going on in relation to renewables 100. Can we run a system where renewable power generation represents 100%. And I think we still need more work on that. Essentially, what we are trying to do now is to increase as much as possible the share of renewables in particular wind and solar, but also other sources, hydro, geothermal, and there are more sources that can come online later. And we need to make sure that we have a system that allows for that as much as possible. And that requires a few things that is also part of what we're working on. First of all, it requires what we would call system integration. So a better organization of the overall system so that the different energy uses and energy supplies communicate with each other, if you will. And what I mean by that is that you could have, for example, the data center, which is a very significant user of energy, very energy intensive type industry. And that data center also has a lot of waste heat. And if we instead of calling that waste heat were to call it energy, that actually comes out because heat is energy as well. If we can use that energy, for example, to heat the homes in the area where this data center is placed, then we're integrating different and industry with our heating systems. And that type of system integration is absolutely critical for these higher shares of renewables in our system. The other thing that's going to be necessary is we're going to need much better storage systems than what we have now. We have battery storage for our electricity, but the storage is typically fairly short duration and does not quite have the capacity. So to have more renewable electricity in our power system, we're also going to need improved storage technology and facilities. We need to invest more in that and we need to innovate to have better technologies. And the third point I wanted to make is, of course, green hydrogen, which is a way to both store and transport energy, where we use the electricity to produce molecules that can be used in particular in the sectors that are otherwise hard to abate, such as the energy intensive industries, steel, cement, and others. So just to mention that there are some regulatory things we have to put in place. There are some technologies, some innovation we have to put in place. There are some systems that we have to put in place in order to allow for much higher renewables, let alone the 100%. Obviously, the energy mix or the choices in that regard remain very much something that is in the remit of the member states, but Andrew Dunn is wondering whether you think that Germany might reopen nuclear stations in the future, or whether, you know, instead of relying on Russian gas or other gas, and wondering, are there any plans for maintaining or increasing nuclear energy across the European Union? But of course, it is principally a decision for member states themselves, I think, is probably the first answer to that. But what's your view? Indeed, Alex, that would be my first point, is that as you're saying, the energy mix is a national decision, so it's up to each national government whether they have nuclear or not in their energy system. So under the European Treaty, the energy mix is national. There are a few exceptions to that in the sense that, for example, we have agreed to phase out coal. It's up to member states to decide over what period of time, but there is an agreement. We've also agreed to set ourselves targets for renewable energy. And so within that national decision, there are some common policy goals that we have set ourselves. But nuclear really is for each government to decide. The current situation is that about half the government, half the countries in Europe have nuclear as part of their energy mix. And so that's the legal framework, if you will. Now, within that, we have of course looked at how do we achieve climate neutrality in 2050? What would the energy mix look like for us to be climate neutral in 2050? And what we can see is that we would need much higher shares of renewables, but also that we would need some nuclear in the system around 13% of the total energy mix across the European Union. Not in each individual country, but on the whole in the European Union, around 13% of nuclear. So if you translate that, that means a bit more nuclear than what we have today, because we'll have more electricity. And what we see is that most of the member states that have nuclear intend to continue, some are looking to phase out. Some member states that don't currently have nuclear are looking to invest and establish nuclear, including one of the newer technologies, small modular reactors. And in fact, just last week, a number of meetings took place in Bratislava in Slovakia, discussing in the European Nuclear Energy Forum and at an event dedicated to small modular reactors. So there's some technological developments also in the field of nuclear that some of the member states that are investing into nuclear are looking to and where there might be an interest for also from a European competitiveness and industrial policy perspective. So quite a lot is happening in that sector as well under European energy policy and under our common. We have a treaty, you're a treaty that that frames our work on nuclear. But again, it's a national decision whether to have it or not. You spoke a good deal about the electricity market and the design of the electricity market. Eddie Mangueo has a question where he says, will we reach a point? He's asking whether you think we will reach a point where electricity prices are completely decoupled from gas prices, you know, from high and volatile gas prices. And if so, if you think we will reach that point over what time frame do you think that might happen? Thank you indeed. And one of the things we're aiming to do with our electricity market design is to decouple as much as possible. And the way we do it is to make sure that a larger part of the electricity comes from comes from or is related to longer term stable pricing arrangements such as power purchasing agreements or what we call contract for difference where there is state subsidies or state aid involved. So that the prices that consumers actually pay are decoupled. And that's the key point is that the consumer prices are decoupled. So you've got the whole the short term wholesale market and that has to link to the different price setting mechanisms. But we need to decouple the consumer prices as much as possible and allow the consumers to sign up to the types of contracts that are not linked to high fossil prices. And when consumers have a choice, that is the effective decoupling that consumers can decide to go into a different pricing arrangement. So that I think is will be an important development and help for both households and companies. Dennis Nocturn TD is a former Minister for Energy. In fact, he was my successor in that role. And he's wondering again about the market refers to what he describes as the patchwork of electricity distribution networks across the European Union. He says that that's the case and it's limiting the opportunities that might otherwise be there in terms of both supply and price. So his question is where is the EU plan for the construction of the 11 priority electricity corridors and the timelines for delivery on that. Thank you. Very, very good, very good question. And I am a good opportunity to say something about the both the transmission and distribution networks and our overall grids, because with our work to become climate neutral and to make better use of the energy we have, we're going to need to electrify to a much higher degree, not because electrification itself is a better thing, but because electrification brings significant energy efficiency. Electric vehicles use about less than a third than compared to combustion engines. And the same with heat pumps significantly more energy efficient than than combustion than the sorry gas gas boilers. And so electrification is an important part of the energy transition. And of course, the more the more electricity we have and the more renewables we have in the system, we also need to invest in grids and make sure that we have the right both transmission and distribution systems and infrastructure across the EU. We will be coming out in just a few weeks with a new with an additional action plan specifically on grids, looking of course primarily at transmission, but also a distribution level, because we need to make sure that that investment can take place and that there is again, the clarity of what is needed and the predictability for investors. So that's my first point is that we are taking action under that grid action plan and really look forward to working with member states and transmission and distribution system operators to to make that happen. Essentially, then we of course have already a good framework for infrastructure and infrastructure investment. We have the regulation on trans European networks in the field of energy and we have the we have the related financing mechanisms. So the the objectives, the targets or those investments that have been identified, those projects are ongoing and will continue to do what we can to make sure indeed that we get a better both transmission and distribution system across the European Union. When we think again about renewable energy and all of the work that is ahead in order to expand in every country. And I know that's something that we're very conscious of here in Ireland is, you know, the, what, where's the capacity in terms of the skills to develop renewable energy. Obviously the supply chains issues that people have been concerned about but also skills and ensuring that people switch into work in this sector in that sector. And actually the ESB, I think it's made very considerable strides on this whole issue of skills and training people up and ensuring that we have that we have a good baseline of skills in the country to deliver on the, you know, very ambitious programs and respect of the development of renewable renewable energy infrastructure, both on the wind side solar, and then obviously onward to the grid to the grid so there are there are. And this is the European year of skills, I think it's not the European. So what, what, you know, what can the Commission do what is the Commission doing in relation to trying to expand the skill mix and the skill level of our young people in particular to get into the sector. Very, very good point, Alex. And as you said, it's the European year of the skills that we really have taken particular action and paid specific attention to what do we do to develop the skills across the European Union that we will need. It's really about, it's really about educating the engineers of the future and for the future. And so what we can see is we need to attract more young people into those educations, into those qualifications that will bring people who can help make the transition happen. We can do that in each of the national educational systems, but also in common European action under the year of the skills really identifying what are the skills that are needed for the energy transition, and how can we make it happen. I think one of the interesting points of that is that there's a lot of really interesting jobs in the energy transition, a lot of green interesting jobs. Some of the skills that have been used in the past in other sectors can actually be transferred and be used in the energy transition. And so I think one of the challenges for all of us is to look at what are the skills that are already there that can be used also to the green transition, maybe with a bit of re-skilling, a bit of an upgrade or additional training, but a lot of them are already there. But I think really the question of skills also speaks very much to a younger generation. What do you want to do? And do you want to become part of making this change to the way we operate our energy system and our economy so that it becomes greener and cleaner and helps address the climate challenge? Would you say a few words about permitting? Generally, you mentioned it in your presentation. Again, one of the kind of obstacles that a lot of people would see to rapid progress would be the constraints that exist in relation to planning and permitting. Now, of course, that's not to say that citizens don't have the right to object and the right to contribute to decisions on planning within the context of a planning code that a country would have. We were in Germany last week and we had some discussions there and they were talking about some initiatives that are coming forward in that country. If I'm not mistaken, I think they were even musing about the possibility of reducing permitting times down to a period, a short period of months. That's not something that would be familiar to us in this country. So can you say anything just generally from the commission's perspective as to whether it's important that change is made there or necessary that change is made there? How extensive might that change be? And do you have an idea of a timeframe period that is appropriate to permitting applications in this sector generally? It's a big question I know. Yes, but it really is an important question because indeed we can see that one of the significant obstacles to the deployment of renewables is that it takes a long time to get the permitting process. The permitting process simply takes a long time. And of course within that time that it takes there are a number of different components. Some of them are necessary steps for a good permitting process. You need to make sure that there's transparency. You need to make sure that people in the local community for example can be heard that they have a possibility to give their view. You of course have to make sure that it's a legally sound process that it respects environmental rules and procedures. So sometimes these things do take time. And what we have to make sure is that they don't take longer than what they have to. And that's the problem now is that it takes far too long in most European member states. So what we've done at European level is first of all we have strengthened the regulatory framework really putting in place some targets for how long should permitting take. But then I think more importantly actually identifying what are the issues that lead to this delay? Why does it take so much longer? What member states have shortened the permitting time and some member states have really good results? What have they done? What are the best practices? So really to look at the concrete measures we can either take at European level or that national or local authorities can take to help reduce permitting time. Now one of the questions in permitting is always of course how do the different legal frameworks fit together and how does the build out of renewables or infrastructure, how does that fit in environmental framework? And I think it's quite important to underline that the situation is not one where there is a conflict between environmental law and clean energy infrastructure. On the contrary our renewables and clean energy infrastructure really contributes to a cleaner environment. So there is no conflict there but what we do see is that there can sometimes be a challenge between different legal procedures and it is more a question of the procedures and managing that the legal processes that it is about substance. And so to the extent we can address that procedural challenge we can already do quite a lot to significantly lower the permitting times. I think we need to all take inspiration from those member states that have really lowered very, very significantly to see how exactly have they done it, what is it that can be simplified and facilitated. And I think we need to make sure that there is good engagement with local communities so that people know what is it that is happening and what we see in some member states is that they have made sure that the local communities could benefit directly from the new renewable energy. So for example if a new wind turbine is installed close to a town, if the town benefits from the clean and cheaper, much lower cost energy, well then there might also be a readiness at local levels to accept yes there is a wind turbine but it really brings both cleaner air and cheaper energy to the local community. So I think there's a lot more that can be done. A lot of that is set out in our wind power action plan that I mentioned before that we will now be discussing both with governments and with the sector. And it may be that the licensing and permitting regimes for offshore wind might be more amenable to a kind of a standardized approach than onshore because of course there are different legal traditions and different constraints and so on that apply. But I wonder do you think that in the offshore context that there's a chance there to have perhaps quite a standardized approach at the European level given that it's the seas around Europe. Well at least I think there's a very good point you're raising and I think at least there are certainly a number of commonalities across different offshore wind projects. What we look at there is maritime sea planning and how do you manage in a sustainable way the sea basins and most of the maritime areas where we will be deploying or where member states will be deploying offshore wind. Of course also they're also home to many other different either industries or activities. It can be sea transport, it can be defence, it can be obviously infrastructure that's there. It's fishermen, it can be tourism, it's the whole sea basin, the sustainable, how do you say, flora and fauna, the animals that live there. So there's a lot that benefit from these sea basins and there I think we can do quite a lot in maritime spatial planning and really finding the best sustainable approaches to doing that. But as you said a lot of that that is common to most of the areas. So it's other things that we can that we can do together and I think that's a very, very good point. You mentioned Daryl Lohler who's a senior researcher here at the Institute says that recalls you mentioning when you in your presentation, you know the importance of not being dependent on one supplier and how that was seemed to be such a critical question last year. You know that the argument being that Europe had failed perhaps to anticipate the scale of its dependence on Russian gas or as to what will be done if there was any kind of a crisis in that regard. And Daryl is just wondering and I think it's an interesting question. Do you think there are dependencies, other dependencies that Europe has today that should similarly concern us from the point of view of geopolitical risk. And one thinks of the whole raw materials debate the whole issues in relation to in particularly in the in the whole battery scene and access to the necessary materials, their lithium and so on, and some concerns and by commentators that there are going to be issues there. Yes, absolutely. I think it's a very, very good point when we look at our competitiveness, then the security of the supply chains and the access to critical raw materials in particular really are of concern. What we see in the area of critical minerals, critical raw materials is that one particular country China has a very strong presence, both in the extraction through investments elsewhere but even more importantly in the processing. And in the in the input in the components that that that make up for batteries which will be a critical part of critical component for our energy transition and for electrification. So that very high level of dependence on one supplier is of concern. And what we're doing about it at European level is really a number of things I mentioned earlier that we have made a proposal for a legal actor critical raw materials act that aims to diversify and make sure that the investments that are needed also in Europe take place so that we can build a higher level of of independence, not complete self-sufficiency, but resilience and independence where that is possible and needed. So there's the critical raw materials act that is currently going through the legislative process. Then of course a lot of this also depends on our partnership with with others on international cooperation because Europe is not geologically very gifted with energy sources or critical minerals. We have some and we should make good use of them, but we also need to work with reliable partners globally in a critical raw materials club or in some sort of cooperation with with reliable partners again to diversify. And I think the point is is really resilience and not complete self-sufficiency because we want to work with partners and we want to build strong partnerships. But we need those strong partnerships to be more economically secure to have to have a strategic autonomy of the European Union. So we're working on that indeed. And the other things are I should mention that in relation to critical minerals, which is the biggest mining potential is probably in all of our drawers where we have smartphones that we no longer use with batteries in them. I spoke to a car producer not so long ago that told me that about 90% of the battery can be recycled and reused. And so the first place to start mining really is in the circularity of our economy and in the recycling and reuse of those products and minerals as much as possible. Interesting point. Just John Hughes actually was asking a question as you were speaking about over reliance on one country for solar technology or for I presume the materials means in relation to solar technology. So I think you've kind of covered that. I mean, I presume he has in mind that Chinese situation and the fact that, you know, John Fitzgerald often makes the point. Economist John Fitzgerald, who does a lot of work with us that people want low prices as well. You know, they they they they're the strategic question they want Europe to to make its own improvements and they want Europe to be self sufficient. But consumers also want good keen prices. And if they're going to be persuaded to have solar panels on the roof of their home, they like to be together at a keen price. And the Chinese, you know, intervention there has proven to be something of value to individual consumers. So the challenge then is to is to see can can can we match that in Europe and elsewhere in the world. And just before I ask you a final question about about the COP, which is coming up very soon. And just a quick revisiting of the nuclear point. Dana Bryan, who's our chief economist here, the IIA, just a quick follow up on small modular reactors. Do you see them as a game changer as some of their advocates do or as part of the long term evolution of nuclear energy? It's a big question, but just a couple of minutes just to revisit it if you think that might be a game changer that aspect. Yes. Glad to do that. And maybe if you allow me just a brief word, because indeed this dependency on one supplier for solar panels for photovoltaic is indeed of concern. We actually used to have a very vibrant photovoltaic manufacturing sector in Europe and lost that. And so we have to make sure that other industries don't go the same way. And as you rightly say, there is this question of low prices, low cost. We don't want to make the transition more expensive, but there has to be a balance so that we also consider our security and the long term stability of markets and of reasonably priced supplies. So really important point. As regards small modular reactors, indeed it is. I think one of the technologies that is promising as regards the access to clean energy, to zero carbon energy. And we've just, as I mentioned last week, had a discussion around small modular reactors and Commissioner Simpson announced the intention to go ahead on an industrial partnership on small modular reactors. So certainly it's one of the technologies that we're looking at. What is the best? How do we best in Europe provide a value added for those countries that would like to look at small modular reactors? Now the technology is not yet deployable. So the first investments, the first actual power generation facilities will only be out there in a few years. And so it's a bit early to say exactly how is that going to function. But I think we need to make sure that we do what we can to make it a useful contribution to the energy transition and to the supply of clean energy. Just before we finish, Keith Flanagan from the wholesale electricity policy division here at the Department of Energy would like to acknowledge a tremendous workload of the commission, particularly in relation to the response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And he says that obviously in his experience and that of the department that the commission has been both ambitious and able to move rapidly and all of that is to be commended according to Keith Flanagan. And I suppose it's a good point for us just to finish where we are coming up on the hour. It's only two weeks to COP 28. Can you say in a short minute or two what your hopes are, what you think the sense of ambition should be and where you think it will end? Do you think it will be successful as there a chance for it to be a successful COP? Thank you very much and thank you very much to Keith for the very kind words of recognition that I will share with all my colleagues here who have indeed been working very hard over these last few years. So I think first of all COP 28 really is a decisive moment. We can see that and I said it several times where we are not on track to respect the 1.5 degree threshold that we have set ourselves. We have seen the dramatic weather events this summer, the summer before, you've just mentioned it here today as well. So it is a situation where we absolutely need to take action. So COP 28 is a really important moment for the European Union. It is critical that we manage to bring progress to reach agreement on mitigation in the last COP 27 in Egypt. There was no real outcome on mitigation and mitigation is necessary, lowering our greenhouse gas emissions is absolutely necessary. In order for that to happen there are a number of factors that of course have to come together. We need to acknowledge the challenges for many countries in the global south. We have announced further financing and our engagement to work with these countries. So I think there are some encouraging developments out there also in relation to loss and damage which was the big discussion at the last COP about a year ago. I also think that the work we are doing in the field of energy, the global pledge for renewables and energy efficiency, the work to lower methane emissions, we have some quite encouraging feedback from partners and a number of countries are already coming together. So I would allow myself to be at least hopeful that these early good developments on financing to help the global south and global cooperation for mitigation on loss and damage, on the transformation, on the changes that are necessary in the energy sector, that those pieces hopefully can come together and can help bring us to a successful outcome so that we can then focus on all the many things that will have to be done to make it happen, to make that change happen, including through the energy system and including in Europe. And the hope is also that with everything else happening in the world at the moment in these weeks that governments will give the COP the attention that it needs. I'm sure they will, but there are so many other things happening for governments and indeed for public opinion across the world that sort of one crisis seems to overtake another. But there's hardly a more critical one than the question of climate and very much to be hoped that the COP 28 will take the ambition forward. Thank you very much for being with us for this last hour for your presentation, which as I said covered a lot of ground and then the questions which covered even wider agenda and set of agenda points. So thank you once again for being with us this afternoon. I want to thank all of our attendees of whom there were considerable number, let me say, and for your attention and for your questions. I thank in particular our colleagues at the ESB for working with us at the Institute on this We Think series and look forward to seeing you all again in the not too distant future. Afternoon.