 Okay, so good morning once again. Welcome to all of you who made it to class. Hope all of you are okay doing all right. And welcome to the e-learning students as well. Thank you for joining in every time and ensuring that you're doing your regular course of work. Hope you're being blessed by the class and being able to apply it in your interactions with others as well. Okay, so let's start with a word of prayer and we'll move into our lesson. Heavenly Father, we thank you God for this new day. Thank you that you have gracefully bought us Lord. Thank you that your presence and your power is made available to us. Father even as we progress into today's class learning further, God we pray that you will equip us adequately to help and work with others. Father we ask God that you give us the wisdom we need in listening to people, in being able to keen in understanding where they are at and also leading them to come alongside with you to resolve their issues, their thoughts, their feelings wherever they are at Father that you would equip us even as we learn. Father we pray that even as we practice these things that you will give us clarity on how to move forward. Lord, I pray for each student here as well as every student going to be listening to this lecture at some point of time. God that you meet people at their point of need. Father that you comfort their hearts, you strengthen them, you promised you are our greatest counselor and we pray God that in areas that we need redirection God that you would work alongside with us and we will be teachable, we will be willing to recourse our lives Lord according to your desire. Thank you once again for these two hours we pray that your presence and your power go ahead of us in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Okay, so nice to be here again this morning. Hope all of you are doing good. Yes, I'm well as well. Thank you, Divya. Okay, so let's move to what we were studying. We started on the stages of counseling and if you'd like to follow through the notes I'm on page 20, we are going to be starting from page 26 but we started off with the lesson last time on the stages of counseling which is at page 22. Okay, so page 21, sorry. So we're going to, we'll just quickly have an overview of what we did because we started off with the stages of counseling and we're going to be doing the second and the third stage today. So before we move into second and third stage we'll just have a quick recap of stage one so that you know you have a good flow of events or a good flow of where we stopped last time. So just let me just share my screen. Okay, all right. So we started last week in talking about the different stages of counseling. Remember, so some of the things that we spoke about is that this is a structure, a process that we need to keep in mind as we are working with people so it's almost like a guide that we use. Again, we did say it's not something that you follow rigidly step by step maybe there are certain times you may need to go back one step or redo one and two again. So it's generally serving as a point of reference for you but there is a model that we need to understand what generally happens or what are some of the key elements that needs to take place from one stage to another. So we looked at stage one, we said it's an exploration that is you are digging in deeper into the present situation. Now this present situation it's just not the circumstance that you're digging deeper into or looking or exploring but you're also exploring other things about the thought process that's going on behind it the way that they make meaning to it the way that they feel about a certain situation and the way that you bring them to a point of personalizing the problem. So this is where we looked at I'll go through it once again stage two is you are getting them to develop a new place or a new a preferred future or a preferred stage or scenario of the situation. So once they come to an understanding you've bought them to a place of knowing what is it that they may need to progress into where are the areas that they need to work into so that they could move into stage three which is the stage three is the one of the moving into action or the phase of action where the counseling is actually dealing experientially with the problem and taking whatever has happened in stage two identifying what they want, what they need what they need to change and trying and working it through certain practical methods or practical activities in order to get the result that they're looking at. So we looked at the stage one last time and I'll quickly just go through this. So in stage one what you're doing is as I said, not just exploring the situation of the problem that's coming about but there may be a necessity to understand certain other elements like basic life areas or how they function in different areas of their life so that you get a more richer like a richer treasury about what is going on remember even as you're exploring I would say, let's not keep the eye towards finding problems but then through these assessment and through these basic life areas that you are assessing you're also looking for good resources that the person may have in them in order to build, in order to work through their problem like for example, let's say even as you're assessing you're probably in a certain situation you probably assess to see that this person has a good fellowship or has a strong spiritual life or they may be emotionally they have a couple of support systems that's really strong who can walk alongside with them. So when you're exploring, yes, you're looking deeper to figure out how they deal with life but don't look at it with a problem focused don't look at it with a problem lens look at it more from a solution lens looking at it more from the kind of resources and strengths that they may have that they can use to work through their problem. So again, another point that we had bought about last time in discussion is it doesn't it's not mandatory that you lead them through all of these 10 areas but what may seem appropriate for the situation that they may be in, okay? Like I think we were talking about let's suppose they have a certain so let's say they have a physical health issue, okay? So it may not be necessary to look at all of these details like about their finances or they are maybe even probably their certain routines that they're going to it may not be necessary. So whatever seems really practical around the problem area that they've come if you find out that's more than enough it doesn't mean that every person you are meeting with you need to really assess all of these 10 areas and you will find that even as you're talking to them some of this is already coming up in the conversation as you're talking and you may just need to dig in a little deeper so don't stall them and say, okay don't talk about your problem, hang on let me finish 10 of these basic life areas and now you tell me this it doesn't have to be like that you intermingle it in a way that becomes a natural conversation. Nevertheless, you keep your mind open to needing to explore these different areas and that's why these 10 basic areas have been put about, okay? Now we looked at a Dennis's case study we will come back to this case study as we have as we're going to continue this on into the second and the third phase. So in this, what did we focus on? We said the exploration area has one is the assessment that is there. Secondly, you are identifying the problem. So what are you doing? Here is your once you've figured out what the kind of problem is you are identifying what the kind of deeper issues are of the problem. What does the person feel? You know, what is the person's emotional emotional space during this time that they are going through the problem. So remember one of the biggest reasons why we need to explore feelings is when emotions or feelings are not acknowledged they can actually cause a lot more of trouble, okay? So it is important when you're discussing anything, any, so this is a strong principle and when you're learning through skills you will understand this that whenever you are talking to a person of the problem don't make it business like what do I mean by business like getting straight away into, okay now let's see what we can do about it, okay? In counseling it's important to really attach the other pieces to this problem like a person has a problem they have a certain emotional experience towards the problem or they have a certain thought process towards the problem or they have a certain spiritual experience of the problem. If you remember the five levels of functioning we spoke about, right? In our earlier class. So whatever the situation may be remember not to make it business like not to make it okay they're just here to resolve a problem. We need to tune in to their emotional experiences because any kind of unacknowledged or unresponded emotions has the tendency to cause a lot of trouble within. So whatever the case may be let's say somebody someone's coming to you with a grief someone maybe some loved one of theirs has passed away, right? Now even as they're emoting to you the point is not to be in a hurry to get the person to minimize their emotions allow for the expression of emotions. If you remember we had a principle like that, right? Expression of emotions, controlled expression of emotions. So allow your counseling to be able to express their emotions and walk with them as long as they feel the need to express those emotions because until and unless you're able to take an entire wrap around those emotions still they're able to face and say this is what we're feeling this is what we're going through we may not be able to make a lot more of entry into the other parts of it. So first and foremost in exploration it is to be able to draw out and clarify those problem feelings and that's very necessary to be able to do that, okay? Once, even as I'm saying once remember this is not just okay you finish this, okay that's done now we get into the next it's just that it rolls in much more easier. When while you're doing that you're also giving them as they have identified maybe some of those dominant emotions what you're doing next is to discover what is their goal oriented behavior or the problem behavior, okay? So we need to ensure so what do we see by the goal? The goal is you're examining what goal is the person achieving by this certain behavior and if you remember Dennis's case we came up with this, you know for him the goal is he needs something to cope with the disappointment that he's going through and that good thing and that thing is alcohol so the goal was to just cope with the disappointment he's going through and what did he find to get that goal? It was alcohol so taking him alcohol was a way of getting back to and we saw that getting back to the disappointment that he's feeling or disappointment of what he thought his father was doing, right? So that's the next one to be able to identify what is that problem goal that goal oriented problem or the goal oriented behavior once we have gone into that what are you doing? You're going deeper into understanding the beliefs and the thinking that underlie this problem. So there are certain we've gone through the feelings now next we're going through the thoughts where you're identifying that you're helping to understand what are some of the wrong beliefs that is driving Dennis towards this goal he is pursuing what is the goal to get rid of his disappointment? So there are certain thoughts that is coming now it's important that we don't assume these thoughts but then ensure that we find an explanation what is it that they are thinking about? Now once you have understood what the wrong goal is you're also able to unveil these wrong beliefs that brings about these strong strategies. Now like for Dennis some of his wrong beliefs were or basic erroneous beliefs probably were my father does not love me he doesn't care about my wishes. Now that's become the belief which has bought about and the strategy that he's using is to take on alcohol so he can get back to his father or it could be alcohol will keep me over my pain and disappointment. So whatever it is to find out what the wrong belief is here the belief is father doesn't love me and the wrong strategy is I will teach my father a lesson and thus I will show my father how disappointed I am and then get into alcohol. So that's the kind of structure that the person has believed. From there what do you need to do to help the councillor become aware that they have a contribution towards the problem? So here it's becoming aware that they are also forming a part and parcel of this problem through the way that they have believed erroneously or through the way that they have understood differently. So what are we getting them to do? What I think the shift is to moving away the blame that a person or a councillor may place on somebody else or on their future or on God or on anything else other than themselves. So the best way to get them is to move them back in track and help them acknowledge that there is a contribution that they may be making and to personalize the problem. That means it's to help them become aware of the fact that the problem is theirs, that once they're able to work something out they will find things changing in their lives. So through this, the example that is given is, maybe for Dennis it's like I don't feel fulfilled in my dreams and I'm trying to forget the pain by drinking. So he's beginning to say, the reason why I'm drinking is because I don't feel fulfilled or the reason why or I feel that I will be fulfilled only if I do such and such a thing. So there is a certain belief or a system that he's understood that I am creating the disappointment for myself because I think only if I become a singer will I be able to be somebody important, right? Or only if I'm able to follow this dream, am I going to be able to make something of my life? So he begins to see how he's contributing to it through the thoughts and the way that he plays it out. Next, what are you doing is then you're encouraging the council to personalize the problem as well as the goal together. So when you're doing that you're making the council not just aware of their contribution to the problem but you're making them assume the responsibility for what they are doing to change the problem into a goal. Like for example, if his problem is a disappointment then the goal is to ensure that he works out on that disappointment or his problem is alcohol then the goal is to figure out what is causing him to drink that alcohol and what disappointment or what beliefs are causing him to do that. So as the example here says, I realize that alcohol is not the solution to take away my anger disappointment but working to pursue my dream. So you're bringing the councillor away, I mean, sorry, you're bringing the councillor from realizing, personalizing the problem and the responsibility that they have in working outside of trying to figure out that goal. So this is where we ended last time and this is how we move into stage two, the stage two which is the understanding. Now in this one, what you're doing is you're helping the councillor change the beliefs that they may have with regard to the problem and make it in alignment to a truth. And make it in one with what is the truth, okay? So for that, we should have ensured that we have done a good back work for exploring. We should have done a good back work in helping in really talking about the actual beliefs that the person is talking about. Remember, these aren't suggestions I'm making but when through your questions you are helping the person think about what is it that alcohol has done? So some of the questions that you use in the exploration is how do you think alcohol has helped you with this current condition that you are in? So then he may say, alcohol takes away my pain and so then I'm able to deal with it. So then you challenge that and you say, okay, how has alcohol actually taken away your pain? So they may come up with a thought of, yeah, I don't actually pay attention to it. So maybe then the question is, so does it actually take away your pain? Does it actually help you resolve the problem? So that's when they may come to this, yeah, actually alcohol cannot take away that pain. I know I have to face it but I can't do anything about it. So you've brought them to that place of understanding that there is a wrong belief there. There is something that is not in harmony with the truth, or there could be so many other kind of beliefs that they may be holding. So what are you doing over here is to help them identify the wrong belief which you've already done in the previous stage. Here you're helping them identify the wrong belief and then begin to rework it. And if you remember our stage of modeling, a stage of, sorry, the model of counseling that we spoke about earlier where we spoke about the thoughts, the emotions and the dispute, the ABCDE model. Now that's what we would work over here. So here in gold setting, we help them change their own beliefs. So you identify the wrong belief and then you help them to dispute that belief to come to a place of changing. So let's take the example of Dennis over here. So remember this is extremely powerful because all of this comes from the process of our minds, process of our thinking. So when you're re-identifying the wrong belief, here the basic wrong belief for Dennis is let's say alcohol will help me get over my pain or my disappointment. That's his wrong belief. Every time I drink alcohol, I don't have to think about my pain or my disappointment. Now then we're disputing the wrong belief. So why are we doing this? Because we know that beneath all problems, there are problem causing beliefs which is a lie which needs to be exposed and disputed. And so you're encouraging your counseling to dispute this lie with everything that is possible with them, all right? With all the understanding and the ability to do so, you're helping them dispute that belief. So you cross question and ask them, okay, alcohol, this is your thought, alcohol will get over my pain and disappointment. So first we need to challenge it to help them see that it doesn't and say, okay, what is it, what kind of a belief do you feel you're able to rework? What is it that you would like to look into differently to help you cope with this, all right? So they may come up with another, anything else. They may say, alcohol isn't something, I must probably talk to somebody about my pain and disappointment, right? So that's a good thing that they have identified that alcohol won't help them. Maybe it's something, it's a need to be able to discuss it with somebody or some may say, yeah, I may need to take it to prayer or I may really need to understand the roots of my pain and my disappointment over my father. So that's what you would do to dispute that belief. Then once they have come up with understanding that that's something that they need to change, replace it with a true belief. So what is a true belief? A true belief is something that is in harmony, especially for believers with the word of God and that can be supported by scripture. So changing beliefs is extremely powerful. It is this that helps with a transformed person, with a transformed personality. And that's what you are basically attempting them or helping them to do. So here it is the realization that alcohol cannot take away my pain, I need to face and or deal with it. Or that maybe the belief my dad wants to harm me saying, parents have good intentions for the children. Maybe the way that he's expressing it is quite harsh. If I were to talk to him, if I were to discuss it and maybe he would be in a better place of understanding. So whatever the belief is, you are helping the counseling deal or work through that belief. Now, even as you're doing that, even as you're ensuring to do that, you're also going to help your counseling to be able to handle and deal with the emotions that are coming up. Now, even as they begin to find that there are certain thoughts that have not been helpful, certain belief systems that are not helpful, that there are going to be emotions that's going to come up. Or even in the process of doing it, they are going to be emotions that come up. So it's important to help them face those emotions, feel those emotions, because if those emotions aren't faced up, if they aren't taken care of, it's going to build up over time. So what you're helping them see is that emotions does not have to continue taking on a toll over them. Because the more that you renew your mind, the emotions also definitely begin to change. So help them face it, help them label the emotions, okay? Also, get them to see what triggers these emotions. So if it says discover how they came about, sometimes the person needs to find out triggers, like for example, maybe he's going to talk to his father and his father may not be supportive at that point of time. Now that can again trigger that same thought experience that may come up and begin to feel that disappointment and pain and then going back into the same strategy of drinking. So helping them to really discover what is going on. How are these feelings coming about? And also then later helping them to express it in a way that is helpful. So they choose to express those negative emotions with somebody, maybe a pastor or a counselor. They say, you know, they come back to you and they're able to discuss it. So for example, in Dennis's case, right? There are certain anger, that's resentment, bitterness towards his father that he may be still dealing with despite the change of thought, like, okay, maybe my father has a good intention for me, but yet the past anger or resentment or bitterness that he has is still there. So you're also working with them to deal with those emotions. Maybe, you know, bringing them to a place of forgiveness, bringing them to a place of understanding that these emotions aren't being helpful for them, but to be able to bring about a life or an emotional experience of freedom or being able to give it up to the Lord, to being able to let some things go. So what are you doing? You're helping him realize that even some of these emotions may be hurting him so much that it is fueling his addiction, okay? Just because of the resentment that is. So what you're doing through this is helping Dennis see that every emotion that's coming about is something that he thinks is against his father, but it's actually against him. It's almost like he's drinking the poison and thinking that his father would die, right? But that isn't the case. You know, you're drinking the poison, you're the one who's going to die, not somebody else. So similarly with the emotions, you get so overwhelmed with the emotions, thinking that if I continue to be angry with that person that I'm teaching the other person a lesson, the other person doesn't even realize, right? So helping Dennis come to a place of accepting, understanding where he is in his emotions, being able to express it and being able to make those changes, all right? So once you're able to come to a place of getting the person to do this, you're this kind of a change with his emotions, with his feelings, these things that reflect the new thinking, the new feeling, new behavior, then you are ensuring that there is, that actually gets reflected onto the different areas of his life, into especially into areas like, let's say the physical areas. So you're encouraging him of how he takes care of his body, takes care of his physical health. You're encouraging him about the emotional space to get him in touch with what his feelings are, the deep resentment or anger or disappointment that he has and working to resolving that. You're getting him to changing the beliefs, rational, again, changing beliefs because it helps him to exchange everything that is deceptive into that which is true. Then, bullishness, you're helping Dennis to see that there's a power of choice, that he has the choice, no matter how his feelings may be, he has the power to do something differently, to influence himself and others differently and spiritually is to being aware about how the significance, the word, the security comes not from his father, not from a career, not from a vocation, but is coming from God. So all of this is something that you're trying to map together even as you help in setting new feelings, new thoughts, new behavior, you're getting them to commit in these five areas or areas of their lives. Okay, I'm gonna stop here just to review to see if there are any questions, any thoughts, any reflections, anything. Any questions? Okay, are we all here on the call? Suddenly, I just feel nobody's there. Okay, definitely not there. Yes, we are here. Okay, all right. So, okay, so then I think we'll just move ahead. Yeah, so once we have come up to the, yeah, somebody has a question, Divya, it's clear, okay. So once we have moved from that stage of exploring, okay, we move to a place of goal setting, we are helping them personalize the problem, working with them about their thoughts, working with them about their emotions, helping them to make commitments in order to whatever renewed belief system, renewed feelings are there, we are helping them to make commitment into different areas. So this is all through a conversation. The next stage is where the rubber meets the road. It's the place of actually moving them into a stage of action. Now, often this sometimes becomes the hardest, okay? Because everything that we've spoken about is actually going to be panned out. You're actually going to plan out how they are going to, they are going to plan out, not you, they're going to plan out alongside with you how they are going to work through this, okay? So once you've identified certain things, you may need to begin to find appropriate steps to reach this goal together, all right? Like for example, maybe he's understood, he has the thought process needs to be different, okay? So he knows, okay, alcohol cannot make me cope with my disappointment, okay? Maybe that's the wrong belief he's identified and he's identified, he's probably saying he's disputed that and he says, okay, whenever I am feeling this way, I should probably talk to somebody, I should maybe get support from a spiritual help or a friend who can pray with me, all right? So the thought process is alcohol cannot help, I should do something else, I should do something else to help me to face my disappointment. So this is still in the thought process, right? Now it is where he's going to take actions for it. So that may be one of the first goal, okay? I need to change my thought process. So here is where you're going to take certain steps. So it may be changing a thinking to reach this goal. So as a counselor, what are you doing? You're building those options where you're helping them to step-wise break down a problem thought into figuring out a solution. So it could be in some way like this, you're saying, okay, this is where you take a specific goal, okay? This is this S, you would have heard of these smart goals, right? So S is taking a specific goal. So you're saying, okay, let's work on how you can dispute this thought every time you feel it. So that's the goal, all right. So let's move it step-by-step. What are some of the things that you could probably look at? So we're going to look at measurable goals, right? So he may say, okay, first and foremost, I would like to see how often I feel like this. So it may be, they may be just jotting down, taking a journal of how often do I begin to feel this disappointment? In a day, I feel the disappointment at certain, certain periods of time. Or I have figured the triggers that makes me feel this way, all right? And so they may jot this down in their diary and they may say, okay, you know, I want to check in the next one week how many triggers I've had, how many times I've felt this way. And maybe if I'm able to handle my thought or become aware of the thought at least two times every day, I think it is an improvement from next time. So they may measure it and say, okay, maybe by next week, I don't want to be thinking of it as much as I did as I am right now because I am aware of it, maybe, you know, probably out of the 10 times I do it, I know that I can minimize it two times. So maybe it's only eight times I do it. So you're making it measurable for them to be able to get somewhere. You make it achievable. So not, and when we're saying achievable goals, we're also helping them see how they can achieve it, and so they may come up with very, very lofty ideas that, okay, from now on, I will ensure that I don't go to college because if I go to college, then I have lots of friends with me and then I may feel the urge, but that's not achievable. That's not something that is possible, because he does need to go ahead with his life. So how achievable are these goals? So finding certain ways, maybe, you know, helping them to say, okay, is that something that is practical? Is that something that is realistic? Again, that's where you'll get into realistic goals. Is that something that is realistic? And then working alongside with them, maybe it's, it may be better. Here is again, appropriate steps. You're working with them, maybe I'll find a friend who I can get support from. Every time I feel the urge, I will call up this friend or I will go sit with this friend or I will do XYZ, that'll help me to figure this out and making it time-bound in a sense of, okay, I'd like to try and see this for the next one week or try and look at it for the next one month. So every goal that they may have, whether it is about the thinking, it's about their feeling, about it is their behavior, there need to be steps towards it. You have to take a counseling through the steps of how they would like to work through that because otherwise they may say, okay, I know I should change my thinking, but if you are not working alongside with them on the how to do of it, on finding those specific ways, how do you measure it? How do you be, how can you achieve it? What is it realistically? What is the time that you're looking at? What are the steps towards it? It becomes a lot more strenuous for the person, okay? Now, we'll take an example of, we'll take an example from Dennis's case. Now, let's look at Dennis. Dennis is, there are multiple goals he's taken here, okay? So the goal is one he decides, he says, okay, in order to deal with my drinking, I would want, I'll go in for a rehabilitation program, right? So that's one of the steps that he's thought about. So that's one area. The second is, how would he like to handle stress? Maybe that's another area that we may need to break down the steps towards. Next is, what could there be hobbies or other kind of things that he could do in order to keep his mind occupied from drinking? Or the next goal is, how does he spend the weekends? What kind of friends does he choose from there? So what are you helping him to do is to make different steps. So these are probably four goals that he's bought about, okay? And let's say if it's a thought, if it's a thought that he would want to change, what would you do? You would ask him to maybe write it down and replacing it with the truth of God's work, right? So that again becomes another process that he is doing. As I had said, as I had said, so first initially, he may need to find out what, sorry. Okay, so first he may need to identify the thought, he may need to find the triggers of the thought and then maybe replace it. So then he does that for a week or he does that for some point of time and then he comes back and discuss it. So just breaking down the steps, whether it is a physical behavioral change he needs to make, whether it's a thought process he needs to do, whether it is taking control over the emotions that he's going, whatever it is, you're helping them break it down into further steps so that it becomes a lot more doable for them, okay? Now, once you're able to do that, what are you doing? You're also getting to develop certain reinforcements. Now, what do you mean by reinforcements? Reinforcements are things that they are helped to continue their journey, right? You're giving them a feeling that they have accomplished something, that they are, they're doing a good job of it, they're working towards something. So they basically have a good feeling that they can do it. And so how are you ensuring that is you're developing other kind of reinforcements around that will help them to stick to that goal, to continue with that action point that they have agreed for themselves, okay? So in this, it may be, you know, the counselor begins to feel that, you know, something is going about when they can have, maybe a support person, it's probably a friend, right? Or maybe it's his mother, or maybe it's a sibling, or maybe it's people in the church group. So helping him attach these goals or these action points with someone. So certain questions we'd ask is, who all do you think would notice that things are different with you? So he says, yes, my mother would notice things are different. My friend would notice that these are different. Okay, or you may ask, who all do you think and support you through these goals that you are attempting to accomplish? So he may give you two, three people. And so then, you know, getting to that place of finding those reinforcements. Or it can be in any other form. It can be, let's say, you know, let's say that once you stay clean for two weeks, maybe you should reward yourself somehow. Maybe going for a movie with friends, or, you know, being able to do something that helps you feel the sense that you have been able to work through something. So in order to do this, you need to review periodically. You're actually reviewing with your counseling about how maybe a week went by after you have spoken to them to see how much they've been able to achieve, how much they've been able to work through. So that reinforcement pattern often becomes very, very helpful as they proceed through working through these problems. Next is, even as you've discussed this, you're preparing them to begin to implement it. So what all do they need? Like he said, he wants to go to a rehabilitation center. So you may need to look around to see, okay, if you're going to a rehabilitation, what are the steps you need to take? He may say, okay, I need to first and foremost find out the different numbers of different rehabilitation centers. I may need to call them up and speak to them. I may need to look at the kind of resources I need in order to be able to get in admission over there. Or emotionally, it is, while I'm doing this, while I'm there, I may need the support and help of somebody else. Who shall I connect with? Who could I get that support and help from? Or intellectual resources? So whatever it is there, whatever is needed for that step, you are helping them to implement that, to come to that place of doing that step forward. And so you're formulating, you're actually planning it out for them in your counseling room so that there is a task that they can go back and do. Never leave things open-ended for them because sometimes they may have a difficulty to package everything together. And even as we're discussing this, it almost looks like it's very simple to do, okay, help them with their thoughts, help them with their behavior. Maybe for some people you have to do it at one at a time. Maybe initially it is only behavioral. Then it may be the thought process. Then it may be their emotions. Or so it may not all be done together, but it is packed and packaged very, very differently and formulated step by step for them, okay? So you formulate every step alongside with them. So in Dennis's, maybe the first step is, he's reading about different support groups and deciding which one to join. So you're asking those questions, what, why, when, where, how? Yeah, I said all of that. So you're getting them to begin to planning it even as they are going to figure that out. So you're helping them to formulate that initial step before they can step forward. Now they may do that and then they may come back. The next thing is a feedback. A feedback is very important in counseling sessions even with the smallest of movement that's happened or even with the smallest of change that's happened, it's important as a counselor, we recognize that event. So sometimes people come back and say, no, nothing has happened, nothing has changed, okay? And that can itself, that very word in itself brings about a lot of dejection for the counselor, counselor, counselor, right? So it's important to come all right, despite, look back. So the general question I ask is, okay, look back at the seven days and out of the seven days, which was, which was even a 5% better than the rest, okay? In that way, what are you doing? Is you are helping them refocus on something that they have actually done or actually accomplished, okay? Because the minute that you say, okay, five, even 2% there's nothing, there's 98% you haven't done, okay, you're a gone case. So remember, initial times they are, they may not be as motivated. So it is needed to have that recognition for even the smallest of achievements. So the general thing I do is, if they say the thing has worked, I say, okay, look back at the last seven days, tell me which day was the, was better than the rest. So they will say, okay, actually that one day was okay. I didn't think of it 10 times, I thought of it eight times. I said, wow, very good. What made you, made you get that kind of a success and achievement of that day? So that in itself helps them to have a more positive talk rather than something that's a more solution filled talk than a, what do you say, a problem talk, okay? So continue with that feedback. That's extremely important, even as we process helping them. Okay, maybe before I get into the caring confrontation, we will just, any questions here? If not, we could just take some break, which could take a break and come back. Any questions here? Yes, Tateya, go ahead. Yeah, thank you, ma'am. It might be covered in the further sessions, but I just want to know like in what frequency do you usually meet up with the counseling and also how do you rate an improvement that, as you said, they might not be very positive about the changes that is happening may not be even aware about it. So how do you rate the improvement and how do you gauge like in what frequencies you need to meet them or the sessions you need to take up with them? Yeah. So one of the things, what I follow basically is as best as possible, I try to work alongside with the counseling in even finding the next time to discuss or to talk, right? So something that I would say is, maybe at the end of the session, I would say is how helpful has the session been or what would you want as our next step? So I said, no, I'd want to meet again and I want it to be in regular frequencies. So generally, I think in between sessions, it's good that you have some space because it helps them to think and it helps them to recollect back whatever we've spoken. So that's, I generally take it with what the counseling does say, okay? Some say, I think we could talk only up to two weeks, but in a case like this, you may need to meet much more often. When someone who's coming with a real crisis, it's generally done more often, maybe once, twice in a week or to that effect. But then if the concern or if you do find their very, what do you say, their very demeanor is a lot more calmer and they're able to handle through, then you may space it out a little bit more. Okay, you asked for the measure of, okay, can we come back to this question maybe after a break, it's 1051. A measure of improvement is something we will begin with in our next hour. So we just take a break and we'll come back at, it's 1051 and my clock, so we'll come back by 11-1, okay? Thank you. Thank you.