 Welcome to a very special Tuesday talk here at the Berkman Klein Center here at Pound Hall across the street from the Berkman Klein Center As with a lot of our events on campus. This is being live webcast and recorded. Please just keep that in mind When if and when you ask questions, which I hope you will toward the end. I have the Privilege and the pleasure of being able to introduce Professor Susan Crawford and Chairman Tom Wheeler this afternoon As I'm sure you know Professor Crawford teaches here at HLS works with us a lot in the cyber law clinic and works a lot on issues related to telecom and as well as civic innovation government innovation and helping cities think through data smart governance and policies and Joining Susan today chairman Tom Wheeler who spent three decades working in telecom on both the business side and law and policy side in November of 2013 he was appointed by President Obama to the position of FCC chairman where he was Unanimously confirmed and his tenure at as FCC chair was one of extraordinary accomplishment on a wide range of Issues and is particularly well known for ushering in the FCC's final rule on net neutrality in April of 2015 Which I'm sure is one of many things that Susan and chairman Wheeler will talk about Without further ado, I'm gonna turn things over to Professor Crawford and FCC chairman Tom Wheeler. Thanks so much. Thank you Is indeed a signal pleasure and honor to have Tom Wheeler here as the country Goes through this whirlwind of the last few days the 31st FCC chairman a proud graduate of the Ohio State University and a recipient you got that right the Ohio State University and a recipient of its Alumni Medal a former president and chairman of the National Archives Foundation a student of history cares about America's documents and America's future and America's past and the most consequential FCC chairman since a 35 year old newt minnow Went to the Sheridan Park hotel to the lion's den to the National Association of Broadcasters in 1961 the beginning of the Kennedy administration and told those broadcasters that they were supposed to be serving the public interest Interesting concept. Is that something so Tom Wheeler told four companies that want to control our destiny is that they should be serving the public interest as well and It was active in a huge range of issues as Chris mentioned So Tom, I know that Someone you revered was your grandfather Pretend you're speaking to your grandfather right now someone with absolute compassion and affection And tell them what you're really proud of in your tenure at the FCC. Oh, what are you really proud of what you do? So, yeah, I think that that I think we did a lot of things. Okay But let's start with the base you notice when I said we did a lot of things, okay? Because what I am most proud of is the team that did these things, you know, I mean, here's the silly thing Your chairman You're the guy who you know ends up in the newspaper or in front of the Congress or whatever the case may be But you're just the band leader. I mean the people who are making the music and playing the instruments are the people who were doing the real work and and We were just incredibly fortunate To be able to attract to the Commission a team of new senior folks bureau chiefs Folks in the office of the chairman general counsel etc to work with a Really strong staff. I mean there are really dedicated really bright Really caring people on this day after the FCC. So what am I proudest about? You know, I got to work with them I mean, I I so I went around on the last couple of days and I met with every bureau And I said I had one thing that I said in common to all of them And that was that that I was proud of the fact That I was able to say I was their colleague Because there's a lot to be proud of in that agency So that's I think you have to put everything in perspective because it basically boils down to what's all about people now Really what you were going for is how do you know? Let's talk about net neutrality. Let's talk about privacy The human pride here, but it only happens because of the people Yeah, so you mentioned a small struggling educational institution called the Ohio State University When I was in graduate school there, I was assistant alumni director and my job was the care and feeding of woody haze It was a fabulous experience care That's that's an overstatement my job. My job was that that I would I Traveled the state with the coaches including woody and so I got to know woody haze up close and personal, you know And it was son. Yes, coach You know But what do you used to say you win with people? And There's nothing more true than that you win with people and so the reason why we really get some things done So we had really good really dedicated people who busted their ass who believes in things and busted their ass Let me tick off a few things then okay Bringing fiber access to about 50% of America schools the up, you know, the more than that what more than that We're about 50 now. So here's where we are When I came in two-thirds of the schools in America did not have fiber connections. Yeah, and the third that did Did not have Wi-Fi only half of them had Wi-Fi to the students desk the latest report out of Education Super Highway says that 90% of the school districts in America now have a hundred that's the standard of 100 megabits to per student to the students desk terrific that's because of a team that worked together to overhaul a program that originally been envisioned by Al Gore but had at Trafeed as a narrow band program that wasn't making sense in a broadband world But no, I'm very proud of that big one and revolutionizing the idea of subsidizing Low-cost phone service changing that over to high speed internet access, right? That's and that and that's that's So so we've always had a program where Well, it started in the Reagan administration, but we had a program that that that subsidized Low-income Americans to be able to have phone service because how you get dial 9-1-1, right? and But same story it at at Trafeed as Dial-up telephone service when the world had gone broadband So how do we make sure that the same kind of concept? Support subsidies for low-income Americans for broadband, but the champion for that was Commissioner Mignon Clyburn She was the person who was constantly constantly pushing on that and she was she was my conscience on that issue it's a wonderful issue and There's some things that didn't happen before we get to the title to discussion The Comcast Time Warner cable merger So Yes That didn't happen and and T-Mobile Sprint We had dinner last night with former assistant attorney general for any trust Bill Baer and his deputy Renata Hesse and then My two key folks who had been involved Phil Brewer and John salad and we had dinner to reflect on Not only the substance of the issues we had worked on but again back to this people angle. I Don't think there'd ever been a better working relationship between the antitrust division and the FCC because we all shared a common belief and We all liked each other and liked working together with each other and A lot of learning on both sides everything. I've heard No, I mean there was some The Comcast Time Warner decision Broke some new ground Privacy So There's a really simple issue that that I think that that We're going to have to face again because of the new administration and that is that Privacy is a civil rights issue of the 21st century of the connected era Let me give you an example of it so so we had We had for decades Rules that Applied the telephone companies That said that the information that Was transmitted in order to set up the call Could not be used by the telephone company so for instance If I call Air France Verizon can't turn around and sell that information to some tour operator or hotel company in Paris But that doesn't exist in the broadband world So you had that strange situation? Where your smartphone? If you used it to make a voice call Your privacy was protected if you use that same device and the same network to go on the web and go to the Air France website Boom that information was for sale It was not your information anymore the very fact that you had used the network meant you were giving that information and we said no This is the consumers Information and so we put a rule in place that said that the consumer gets to make the choice as To how the network is going to use the information And that was another one of our three to two votes We'll talk about party line in a bit. I want to get there. I'm still ticking off the great of the talking about The idea of labeling an internet service provider as a common carriage title to entity that was pretty big and What was it okay, I've always wanted to know what is it like to hear from 3.7 million Americans Does that feel like Well, they they crashed our servers Exactly And and and you don't always want to hear everything they say about you, you know I've heard more descriptions about what I could do to myself with a pineapple But But the whole the whole open internet discussion a debate was a was was fascinating and and and for me And you were part of this because you and I were on the phone discussing this For me it was kind of a Damascus Road experience So you go back and let's put it in perspective that Twice before the Commission had tried to do something and twice before The broadband companies the carriers Builders of the court and the court said no, you can't do that and so let's see I walked in in November and in February The court came down with a horizon decision that threw out the previous attempts at open internet and And it seemed to me that the court was leading us in a certain direction built around section 706 and the protecting what's the virtuous circle of If you have good broadband that will drive more services Which will drive more broadband and the job of the Commission is to protect that so initially my my Proposal was that we should follow what I thought the court was trying to signal to us at the same point in time I asked in the in the notice proposed rulemaking asked about title 2 and and other ideas It became clear over the debate That the discussion that that wasn't gonna be sufficient the 706 wasn't gonna be sufficient and And you know people like to point to to John Oliver and you know I will show you one thing here that this might my Daughter gave me this is my oh, that's great. This is my cell phone case. It says I am not a dingo But um But the dingo is inherently funny no matter what ding is inherently funny until you stand up and say you know I have decided I'm not a dingo. That's not fun. Do not mess with a guy who is funny for a living, okay? So but so One of the things that that you and Chris didn't mention in my background is that I was I was the CEO of the wireless industry Association for a dozen years and in 1994 1993 The wireless industry went to Congress and said Please make us a common carrier But be and put us under title to but because title to was designed For a different era with different technology less competition, etc remove a lot of these old Requirements that are in that were entitled to and Congress did that and the Commission followed through and the wireless industry went like this and so, you know the summer of of 2014 I guess I'm going through options and it's kind of Section 332 of the communications act which is which is this Structure that I just described for the wireless industry is the perfect model for this Yes You can you should be a common carrier with all the responsibilities that come with being a common carrier But at the same point in time you can forbear from some of the more ridiculous things, I mean, you know the statute says you got a Accounting rules and who's on your board and who you can buy from and all kinds of things including ex anti-price regulation, okay and We can forbear from that and Let's take that as the model of how we implement title to in a broadband world And that was the decision that that we ended up making The we were we were constantly working through the various iterations of it The president of course came out and said that he was a strong title to supporter and and so we were able to Put together three votes you and uphold it in court How about that a very strong decision there with a very strong decision that was that it is was it was crucial for them So third time We got it right because we did this way and the court strongly agreed with us So I've got a quote from you recent speech You've said recently those who build and operate networks have both the incentive and the ability to use the power of the network to benefit themselves Even if doing so harms their own customers in the greater public interest We're hearing from the Trump administration today that they're looking forward to getting rid of 75 percent of Regulations on the the idea is that they inevitably dampen innovation and investment What's your view of that claim the dampening of investment by regulation? so Part of my experience Is that I've made the same argument when I was an advocate. How about that? So Let me tell you a story I Was see you with a wireless industry association and I I was proud of the job that I did both at At the cable association when we were taking one the broadcasters They were trying to shut us down and in the early days of wireless when I was at CTIA the least proud moment of my public policy life Was when I opposed the commission's efforts to Have local number portability So that and that means for humans if you decided you could take your your if you wanted to switch your service from AT&T to T-Mobile that you could take your number with you didn't used to be that way And that was imposed by regulation and I opposed it and you know Saying okay, so I mean how we're gonna pose this can't exactly go out and say hey You know we think it's a really bad idea that consumers can't we can't leave us and they're trapped in their current carrier Because they can't they given everybody the telephone number that that's not an argument. That's a real winner So you so so the argument I made was oh Installing this is going to take money that should be spent on infrastructure and expanding connectivity and and and Fortunately that didn't sell Like I said I regret that that activity Um But I'm but I'm guilty of this so the it is going to slow down our incentive to Invest is kind of the first line of defense of everybody and it's Balderdash. I Cleaned out. That's a strong word. I cleaned that up The reason that you invest is to get a return You don't say well, I'm not gonna invest because I might trigger some regulations The question is am I gonna make a return off of this broadband is a high-margin operation. You can make a return off it So but the facts speak for themselves Since the open Internet rule went in place broadband investment is up fiber connections are up usage of Broadband is up Investment in Companies that use broadband is up and get ready for it Revenues in the broadband providers are up Because people are using it more The reason why you invest is for this reason right to generate More revenues and a good return on those revenues and so so the oh my goodness It's gonna be a terrible thing for investment Is is just kind of the first refuge that everybody looks at or everybody makes and you have to look past that As a student of the Civil War, you'll remember that one of the big prizes of 1863 was chat nougat Railroad hub three railroad lines two big rivers two mountain ranges What role did Chad nougat play in your tenure? Set up, you know that was well done. Thank you. That was real. You want to talk about the cracker line that brought in the supplies after they We're gonna get there, but let's start with something related to telecom so My good friend Susan Crawford Says to me when I Took this job that I should bear three things in mind. I wrote these down. I kept them on my desk The first was to return the regulatory ideal that there is a legitimate role for regulation To benefit the broad scope of the population Second was that We should have a legitimate Credible definition of what broadband is because broadband used to be defined as four megabits a second, you know, that's hardly broadband And the third was to tackle the outrageous practices That the ISPs the internet service providers the telephone companies and the cable companies We're doing where they were going around the country and going to state legislatures and Getting state legislatures to pass laws that Prohibited cities in that state From building their own broadband network to compete with them, and you know when I thought hey, you know if the people through their local government Decide they don't like the quality of service that they're getting They ought to be able to organize through their government and say I want something better including the government building it and so We sued chat nougat was the was the was the case study of A Tennessee law so we sued North Carolina and I'm sorry. We sued Tennessee and North Carolina on We're making the argument that This was a overreach of the state's authority Unfortunately the Sixth Circuit Disagreed with us the great thing is All of the hubbub about this Woke up an awful lot of cities Triggered an awful lot of referenda to do things and there is More Activity to build competitive broadband at municipal levels than ever has been and you know what happens You do know what happens, but of course what happens. I'm talking to miss fiber here I mean you come on you know that that what happens is when they decide to build It's just amazing the cable company decides to go faster and expand their service. It I you know It's just incredible. I love this thing called competition Private citizen Tom Wheeler the Legislatures of Missouri and Virginia just introduced new snarling bills along these lines. What would you tell a? sincere earnest state legislator today about those bills We will hear like top two points be to that well, I mean first of all that that that they are That the people do have a right To come together and say I want something better for my city and the second political point that I would make Is is it's not really the Chattanooga's where this is a big challenge. It's the Wilson, North Carolina's And it's the areas where the people who voted for Donald Trump Do not have access to the internet and are not getting access by the existing companies and They're the ones who are fed up with the system and have voted to That they that they were fed up and you need to be responsive to that They would vote your way. Yes, right Because you were I mean that's it we're still wrestling with this in such a big way that ten you're ten times more likely Not to have access to reasonable high-speed internet access in a rural area than in an urban area and if we add together wires and wireless You're just not going to get it in rural areas at all So we have a lot with a lot of progress and this is the idea I mean I think that one of the messages that people were voting for in this campaign is I want Power back to me. I want decision. You know the whole thing about drain the swamp is get the power back If the government closest to the people is saying Our people would like to have better broadband Then who's to say no? Talk to you about the vision of the FCC because now we're going to go through the crossroads. I love looking back but let's let's let's walk on the design of it as a FDR agency was it could be expert agency Insulated from politics Of course not Okay, many of the staffers people who are working at the FCC or there's a lot of flow back and forth between the hill people have Been staffers end up as commissioners Lobbyists end up as staffers. There's a big circle here Let me give a you deserve a better response. Thank you. I appreciate that than the smart ass of response again Look One of my aha moments was how special an independent agency is I'll tell you a story Early in my tenure We said that For technology reasons It was no longer necessary To turn off your cell phone on an airplane for fear of interfering with the ground stations, which is the only reason that rule existed and You all know the hub of Of oh my god, we're gonna be 35,000 feet and people are gonna be guy next to me is gonna be yacking away I didn't want that either. We would just do a rule in that a technical issue So Anthony Fox the secretary of transportation And I are on the phone Because he has the responsibility to the FAA of How consumers behave on the plane I was just doing the technology you don't need because there's an interfere anymore because they put pico cells on the plane and He says well, this is cool. We can work this all out. He said you take the technology I'll take the consumer will solve it. I said that's fabulous. I said I'm testifying tomorrow in Congress at 10 o'clock And they're gonna ask about this. Let's make sure that we've got our Our language down is exactly what you and I have just agreed to because our staffs that work on that. That's great But an hour later Somebody comes in one of my staff folks comes in and says well I just got a call from the general counsel at Department of Transportation. They can't do it. It was overruled by the White House Now make a very long story short there was somebody in the communication shop at the White House that didn't like this idea The White House ended up approving it. I went and testified, you know things move forward But the point of the matter is that I made the decision Looking at the guy in the mirror in the morning and The cabinet secretary had to run it through the apparatus of whites and it's a former White House staffer You know how that works so so the ability to have an independent agency to Make to be an expert agency and to make independent judgments is really important that does not mean That it isn't a political agency, which is your question and in particular Having an agency that for the vast majority of my term was dealing with a Republican Congress That didn't like what we were doing That Headache that helped politicize the activities at the Commission the So it's it is a it is it is an independent agency that of course commissioners Read the newspapers like the line of the Supreme Court, right? Supreme Court reads election They respond to letters from Congress It's an agency made up historically of one agency being glued together with memories of another agency essentially Now people are talking about taking it apart modernizing the FCC is The lingo being used What's your thought about that? It's a fraud? Keep talking So so it's interesting so I actually it was going through some papers this weekend And I ran across a september 2013 article in the Washington Post the headline of which was something to the effect Here's how the networks plan to defang the FCC and It quoted all of the the the cable and telephone company Washington office heads saying that Really that the consumer protection and competition work of the FCC should be transferred to the FTC the Federal Trade Commission and and It's no surprise why they want it to transfer there that the the FTC Doesn't have rulemaking authority They've got enforcement authority and their enforcement authority is whether or not something Is is unfair or deceptive so first The only Regulation that they would be subject to would be say a an adjudicatory finding that That it's unfair or deceptive one two You got this agency over here the FCC that is constantly worrying about all things in telecom the FTC Has to worry about everything from Computer chips to bleach labeling And of course you'd want to get lost in that morass where okay, we'll get to that We got to get bleach labeling taken care of first um and And and so this was their strategy all along so what's what surprises me would know what doesn't surprise me is That then the Trump transition team which was basically folks from American Enterprise Institute Who were folks who were true? It's not even funny who were who were longtime supporters of This concept come in and say oh we wanted we ought to do away with But there is but the story gets even more interesting So so first of all it makes no sense to get rid of an expert agency and to throw it over here in an agency with No room-making that has to compete with everything else that's going on on in the economy And can only deal with unfair deceptive because we're talking that one sixth of the economy, but more importantly we're dealing with The network that connects six six of the economy But here's what's really bizarre and the story how the story really gets interesting we in the FTC brought an action against AT&T and The FTC using their unfair deceptive Standard us using our broader capabilities and AT&T took the FTC to court and Said you don't have authority the stat the FTC statute says that common carriers are exempt from jurisdiction of the FTC Now this is the same company that previously in this Washington Post article had the head of their washroom office arguing how it should only be the FTC that has jurisdiction over their issues and the court said Yes You are right and not only are you right about the FTC not having jurisdiction over common carriers The FTC doesn't have jurisdiction over the non-common carrier activities of common carriers So now we have a situation where the carriers and Their supporters at AEI and Inside the Commission are saying well, we should transfer everything to the FTC Which is a result of a Ninth Circuit decision on a case brought by the same people that are arguing it should be moved Doesn't have the authority Go figure, but that's not modernization. No, that's just hiding. That's just hiding the people Yeah, it's like escape velocity, but no no coverage at all There's this you may not have heard but there's a new chairman of the FCC really. Yeah. No. Yeah, it just came out Ajit Pai and you know, I can't tell who he is because I got these press releases and they seem to be talking about two different guys So from the NCT a Which used to be called the cables your cable association now it's called the internet and table television association Michael Powell is saying during his tenure on the Commission chairman Pai has consistently demonstrated a common-sense philosophy that consumers are best served by a Robust marketplace that encourages investment innovation and competition We stand ready to assist chairman Pai to ensure that America remains a global internet communications and entertainment leader That's one Ajit Pai the other Ajit Pai according to free press He's been on the wrong side of just about every major issue that has come before the FCC during his tenure He's never met a merger. He didn't like or public safeguard. He didn't try to undermine He's been an opponent of net neutrality Expanded broadband access for low-income families privacy all kinds of issues and he's been an obstructionist Who get this has always been eager to push out what the new presidential administration might call alternative facts in Defense of the corporate interests. He used to represent in the private sector. I Listened to a radio interview of you just a couple days ago when you said that a Commissioner Pai canceled all the meetings that you said with him True So I had a when I came in You know, we're a five person commission. Yeah, and and the The chairman sets the agenda and the chairman is the CEO But there's four other commissioners that are important to relate to and it takes three votes to do anything So I set up with every commissioner that every other week. We had a date on our calendar that That was an hour for the two of us just to sit without staff And talk about You could talk about baseball if they were to talk about baseball but talk about the issues of the day and what are the concerns and how do we work our way through serious problems and And Commissioner Pai and I had had early on a lot of those meetings But for the last 18 24 months, he's canceled every meeting So, you know my the only point I was making on on marketplace was that you know, it's it's hard to work for Consensus when you won't sit down with each other time will tell I suppose With the next the next steps. I think that's coming up right away is the AT&T time order merger And there's two Donald Trump's on this one, too There's the Donald Trump in October who said this is a destruction of democracy And then there's a Donald Trump of last week who said after meeting with AT&T. I got to get some more facts We'll see. Do you have any guesses for us about what's likely to happen with that merger? Well AT&T has now Designed the merger to avoid the FCC I think the Commission probably still has some jurisdiction, but I don't make those decisions anymore But no my so as somebody said in the other day, I have lost the Windex to my crystal ball Oh, good line. I Have determined that you have something in common with Donald John Trump. You may be surprised to hear this It is the exclamation point because your first book take command Exclamation point that leadership lessons from the Civil War So this have this is the Harvard Leadership School you may think it's the Harvard Law School is actually the Harvard Leadership School and I wanted to get your Reflections on leadership in this role because I want everybody to understand what it takes To run an agency with $388 million budget and 1700 employees and I thought I could tie this again back to the Civil War and Have you talked to us about Ulysses Grant? So you don't have to talk about yourself, but you could talk about general grants so That must be a model General grants my hero And not just because he was from Ohio The first chapter in the book that you cited Is called dare to fail And I think that that's the first rule of leadership that What the book says is that if you if you prepare for failure you will no doubt succeed And one of the things that was so great about grant Was that Was dogged in His I just won't fail. I'll get this done So and and so he's always been my hero so my I've got a little Consulting company that I had before the Commission and I've just Reopened and it's called Shiloh group And why is it called Shiloh group? It's called Shiloh group because It was probably the definitive battle of grants career and He lost on the first day. He got creamed and That night And everybody expected him the rebels expected him to Retreat and melt away But he didn't study brought more troops up You all came in and save the day, but that night William Tecumseh Sherman Finds grant sitting under a tree Whittling working at his frustrations on a piece of wood And he says well grant We've had the devil's day Grant looks up Quip them tomorrow, and he did And and persistence is The key and Ulysses Grant was a great model of persistence General Lee and General Grant. I'm gonna keep going with this both went to West Point General Lee graduates top of his class no demerits General Grant number 21 out of 39 plenty of demerits Common you're asking the guy who barely got up Ohio State Well, there you go Moral courage so so You know when you can't you can't criticize We you can criticize him for being on the wrong side, but you can't criticize him for being a great leader and Wow, that's a really good question. So look, I think the bottom line is this It is what you make of things. Let's go back and let's take Ulysses Grant after he left West Point He distinguished himself in the Mexican War He met Lee there. He met Lee, but Lee didn't remember He Lee was a hot shot. He was a quarter master He was a Lee was a hot shot engineer because he you know graduate first in his class He then gets Posted to various remote posts particularly out West where Julia his wife can't come with him And he starts drinking and they drank himself out of the army. He came back to St. Louis where his wife Julia Lived with her parents were and tried to take up farming that really didn't work He was reduced to selling firewood on the streets of St. Louis Wearing his old army greatcoat selling firewood. He finally Went back to work for his father in Galeta. He and his father never really got along that well to be a clerk in the in the tannery He was passed over for early Leadership roles in the Civil War McClellan was one of the guys that passed him over and so Failure failure failure failure and then all of a sudden And and so the point is Okay, so you fail right move on That's the great leadership lesson of Ulysses Grant Another part of this is that Ulysses Grant wrote to his wife Julia every day when he was away from her and They were both invited to see my American cousin by President Lincoln the night of April 14th Julia got spooked so they left speaking of leaving Washington to Philadelphia. Oh my Sigway here as you walk away from the portals What's that like to be the chairman walk out and no longer be the chairman What does that feel like? So well first of all you you get you get a long time you get 77 days to work up to it, so it's not it's not a big surprise The You know you walk away with this this incredible gratitude for the fact that at a time of such incredible Incredible change in how Americans communicate that you got to be the guy Who sat there and dealt with how Americans relate? to those changes because you know the The people who say the problem is government So wrong I mean the government is the people it's where we come together to solve our common problems and boy It is a messy process, and it's a painful process But if we can't work things out there We're in a whole hell of a lot of trouble And so the fact that I got to sit at the head of that agency and these incredibly Changing times and to say how do you look at these changes in? technology economics how people connect a Make sure that the public interest is represented was a terrific privilege So I walk away from there proud and I could do it with the people that I did it with How fortunate can you be and as we're about to think of your questions are about to turn to Q&A here But what are you most worried about there are millions of people marched over the weekend? If they knew it they would be marching about telecom as well What what should they be doing? What should people worried about the the concentrated market the high prices the inadequate service all of that be doing in America? the most powerful asset of the 21st century By the networks that connect us Networks have always been important and now that you know the railroad drove the industrial revolution Networks have always been Been been crucial and the network that will define the 21st century is our broadband network As I said We had jurisdiction over one-sixth of the economy, but six-sixth of the economy use that network And I've always used this phrase that how we connect defines who we are both commercially and culturally and so that connection and Whether or not it is going to be controlled On a gateway basis By essentially for companies for Is an existential question for American commerce and culture and And I am worried about what that future looks like and what Is amazing to me is how far it is how the Commission and seemingly the Congress want To do things in behalf of these four companies That will have an impact on tens of thousands of other companies and millions of consumers And I just don't think the debate has gotten to the point where people recognize we're talking about You know fewer than half a dozen companies here and how should you make policy? and and and that's That's my that's my concern. So there's a public education Huge opportunity. All right What do you want to ask German Wheeler? Yes? Mike is flying through the air towards you It's coming If you today have been replaced What about the people who are working under the Civil Rights? Commission jobs What percentage of people in the FCC you mean the civil civil service government employees and Does Trump think That he can just change everybody Well, I'm the last guy to ask what Trump thinks But the reality is you're absolutely correct that that the vast majority of Employees at the FCC or civil servants I imagine that the new chairman will bring in as I did a new top tier and They will be the ones managing those civil servants Yes, they have to follow their directions What do we the American people including the people in this room need to do to protect net neutrality? Well, thank you for asking the question. First of all I think that there are two things one We need to be heard But two we need to be heard in different ways than before You know they they as Susan says 3.7 million Emails and and comments to the Commission They were pushing on a door that was already open the door is locked latched bolted, you know and welded right now So the battering ram, I think the battering ram is Is to paraphrase you know Madison had this great line in Federalist 10 where he said that ambition must be made to counteract ambition And this was the whole concept of how the government was was was set up Economic ambition is what is driving these handful of companies there must be economic Ambition that counters them and so what we need is we need to hear the voices of Those that will be affected yes, the small startups, but also the big companies You know GE GM if they're so let's just go through a couple of things artificial intelligence and machine learning What is it? It is it is the connectivity of all kinds of database resources If that connectivity has to worry about gatekeepers What happens to AI? The Internet of Things The Internet of Things is going to change the whole economics of the Internet I believe from up from up from a push environment to a poll to poll Economics we can talk about that later if you want but but but Who will be deciding which things get connected and on which terms so so if one of the carrier says wait a minute I like my things better, and I'm gonna price differently to them that I am this competitive Provider of this service. What does it mean? And we've seen they already do that with a zero rating on video So this is not a hypothetical, you know awful things so so we need to be Making sure that the companies that are affected are delivering the message because I think that's what the Congress will be most responsive to This is great we answered every question Hey, I think my colleague probably asked this question better than I could but I'm just gonna do it So we work at summerville community access television so I wanted to know Couple things one is sort of what is the role like how can community access television play an important role? And what do you think what do you predict can you predict? I know our Windex isn't working anymore, but What the new chairman what his perspectives are on public access and how we might stay protected it's great questions and You know when I was at NCT a that was a great supporter of pig public educational governmental access And we actually got it codified in the for cable act and Things have changed a lot since 84 There have been some intervening legislation some ruling by the Commission. I don't know where a jeep pie is on That issue. We never we never had a Occasion to discuss it So I'm sorry, but good for you for what you're doing the diversity of voices is So the beauty of technology Is that it has created the opportunity for a diversity of voices that is also the bane of the technology because If you are not using things like peg to express yourself there are others who are using The opportunities for diversity voices to do that and the other thing is that we need to begin to become Our own editors where we used to Outsource the editorial function to NBC or CBS of the New York Times and Now anybody with web access it has as much reach as any of those and It's going to force consumers to be Better Consumers of information and I think we'll get there, but we're certainly going through a rough patch right now Sorry First net is Congress's effort to create a fifth cellular network for public safety right we got three million price sensitive picky cops and firefighters Maybe 12 if we stretch it to second responders, but the break even for a network is about 40 million users in Britain They said priority preemption and quality of service had to be provided by the carriers I can't see a way through to success for first net and this network in the country Do you have any vision of how this will end up? Well first net has Has been controversial since the day that Congress like it was a decision made by Congress championed by Senator Rockefeller in particular and And it has evolved to a point now where They are going to be buying services from an existing wireless provider And we'll be getting the kind of Priority service that you were referencing is available elsewhere in other countries It's going to be interesting to see what happened we had we had three jobs With regard to first net one was to make the spectrum available. We did that To was to make sure that they had seven billion dollars to start the process We did that out of auction revenues and three was in the coming year. There is The option of states to opt out of first net and we were to be the judge as to whether a State should be allowed to opt out and that's a decision that the PIA Commission is now going to have to make and that's Going to be key because for instance if New York opts out or California opts out Or or Illinois opts out or Texas opts out the nationwide network collapses And and that's something we have to live through and I don't know how it's going to end up Last question anybody yes Question around a wireless spectrum if one looks at the on one side the the public benefit Revenues from auctions Being able to just have communication and the other side the rights of spectrum holders and There's been a lot of controversy in this area with bankruptcies spectrums is never used Do you have any thoughts on do we have the optimal model for how we? License or sell and look at sort of the whole Lifecycle of spectrum management over long periods of time and also taking account innovation that occurs. Oh Peeling back that onion we could be here, you know, it's a well past dinner time And let me let me go through a couple of things one We have traditionally what spectrum allocation was originally done Based on analog physics, okay So a TV signal is a Six megahertz waveform So you need six megahertz of spectrum to put out a TV station when you go digital The efficiencies of digitization allow you to get four or five channels into that same spectrum But the problem is that everything that Not everything the vast majority of the spectrum allocation tables were decided Using analog physics and we're now in a digital time so you can get a lot more out of the spectrum except that It's my spectrum. You can't have my spectrum They'd rather give up their babies a little rather, you know, you will you'll my cold dead fingers take my spectrum and And and and this is true internationally I mean we had troubles in a in a big international conference allocating spectrum just last year or two years ago, I guess and The world is not as sensitive to this as we are so that's that's kind of issue one that we're operating under old rules That support It's it's it's mine. I don't want to leave it. One of the great things that the national broadband plan came up with Blair Levin led a team under my predecessor Julie Shenikowski to develop a national broadband plan You had a large hand in that Was to say there ought to be a spectrum auction where we would repurpose spectrum by having an auction to buy it back and then resell it and And so the broadcast spectrum was the key there because go back to my if you can Why do you need six megahertz if you can get a bunch of channels in there? Get them in there and then sell off the others for for wireless applications both licensed and unlicensed by the way and So just literally my next to the last day on the job That auction which everybody said oh, it'll never work. It'll never work that auction hit. What was called the final? final stage rule where in fact we have created a market where broadcasters have agreed to sell 84 megahertz of spectrum and The wireless carriers have agreed the necessary price to buy that and so for the next 39 months There will be a whole process across the country of reallocating spectrum rebanding And making new spectrum available, but the spectrum, you know, I mean that the challenge of spectrum is a they're not making it anymore and B Is the the the physics on that start described the chart the spectrum allocation chart are analog physics in a digital era Here's a shared challenge I think we have that for you this is blood and guts entertaining fascinating stuff And and for me frankly, how do we how do we reach more people with what are ultimately? Extraordinary personal issues people's phones are very close to their hearts. They would give up a food before they give up a cell phone What thoughts do you as you give us a benediction here as you pass into private life? How do we get the resistance going? To focus on these issues in a more dramatic way, you don't ask easy questions. No, this is important. So so I Have just sat here and given you a wonks. I view of Telecommunications policy I Love my wife dearly and she loves me, but I can't hold her interest across the dinner table On these topics So how in the world are we gonna hold the interest of the of the vast? We need to get out of discussing These kind of This we need to get out of our technocrat mode and into our mode of Susan's point about how it's the Trump voter who has the worst internet Experience and the key to getting an education to be able to do your homework The key to being able to get a job the key to be able to to interact with the world around you is to have broadband and these People have been denied it. Why? Because we've built things around again for companies And we need to be getting the story out that let's talk not about the networks But let's talk about the network effects that the effects are the ability to do homework The effects are the ability to get a job the effects are Job creation in in let me tell you a great story And then I'll shut up, but this is it. This is a story that more people need to hear How Rogers who is the chairman of the house appropriations committee represents Eastern Kentucky which is coal country and which is just as you know economically devastated and Trump made a big play in coal country But how Rogers has said, you know, it's Connectivity is key and I keep me brought me kept bring me back to the district to pump the importance of Fiber connectivity miss fiber And I'll tell you two stories. I was in McKee, Kentucky One stoplight 900 people Fiber to every home and business as a result of the Obama sting of us There are more people Employed today in McKee than there were three years ago and who's getting employed It's not just the folks who got let go from the coal mines or those who were selling goods and services to them But it's the disabled I mean one of the things we haven't talked about that I'm most proud about is what we did to make Technology available for individuals who are disabled But people who can't get out and about are now working for U-Haul Avis and folks like this being online from McKee West Virginia you go down the road to Pikesville Where I met with a bunch of X coal miners. I mean you shake hands with these guys and you know Who are now coding for Apple and And others because There's fiber into Pikesville The community college has fiber Was teaching coding and these guys who had the gumption to go way underground and go to the coal face Had the gumption to say I'm gonna take charge of my life in the new economy Because I can because there is a fiber connection allowing me to do it Those are the kind of stories that we have to be telling Because how we connect to find who we are Well, thank you for helping keep America being the Pottersville of the internet Appreciate that. Thank you for your leadership. Thank you for your character and for the Many many hours you put in on our behalf. We really appreciate it. Thanks. Thank you