 going to call this to order at 6.07 p.m. welcome our guests this meeting is called recently for the purpose of figuring out what our next steps are going to be with regard to budget timeline but let's see if there is any is there any interest in other agenda items I had asked Scott to provide an update if you could on the going on over to call us that I've been made aware of the part of the Articles Committee right and I would be interested in maybe making a motion about the budget okay well that will come under the action section that works for you of course anything else you guys want okay so back to our guests welcome was there anything that people want to talk about specifically where you just here to observe okay great well let's get to it then so discussion item need for advice regarding next steps on budget and teacher contracts build you have an intro to this topic I do I handed out I'm sorry I only had a few of them so they're out there when I left the audience and if we have any issues you have you get them out there I provided a timeline the possible timeline drafts just to kind of say what are the timelines that we're looking at for possible either local budget if you 32 were to put a budget forward for our merge budget but before you made that decision I the reason I in consultation with Adrian said I think that you was a board should have selected an attorney that you get fiscal and fiscal guidance on fiscal statutes and on timing of warning statutes to confirm what I put together here and and regard with what's going forward with that 46 I think you as a board should choose who you like I have names of folks that we worked with for the past three years who advised us through act 46 but you could choose someone else as well and I think that that's something you should consider as a board you may or may not want to do that so that's what I bring you is that you have some important decisions one of the things that's a critical date that's at the bottom of this timeline is by April 15th the board needs to notify teachers either by offering them a contract if you don't offer them a contract they're free to to look at other places and other physicians and along with ESP as the same requirement for that and if there are any reductions in force for the next fiscal year you need to take them by April 15th so you will see that either you can look at those usually the practice in Washington Central has been that we wait for a budget to be adopted a town meeting we usually have the contracts while we're ready to go we hand them out as quickly as possible and teachers have 30 days to return contracts there is a hiring crunch in Vermont right now for certain endorsed positions special educators math or language speech language pathologists if we're not hiring now we won't be after after April 1st there aren't candidates so I wanted to make you aware as a board the timelines the pieces that play in and out of this if you have questions for things I didn't cover so in terms of the two scenarios the merge budget there's nothing to do at this stage we're waiting for the injunction before you can call the organizational meeting yeah in the case of important detail in the case of a U32 only budget we could potentially call more in a local budget other schools have for town meeting we're not sure of the legal legalities of that that's why I think that's why you're recommending counsel you choose and and the four people that we've worked with have been we've worked with Scott Cameron's firm we've worked with pH or Lynn's firm we were Chris Leopold's firm and we've had Paul Giuliani and some of the schools that four districts that are in the suit of the attorneys and that's me thank you other questions I sorry just to be clear then the action is to ask for advice that's Bill's recommendation at this stage are you is this because we're so uncertain of the legal yes I'm uncertain it's your choice as a board who you want to seek advice from I'm asking you to make that determination on who you'd like counsel from we so different scenarios at this stage we could disregard Bill's recommendation and go forward with no action or proposing a budget or we could seek legal counsel I guess the the question is in the states eyes 46 is you know we are a unified union and we are to move forward on a merged budget but we don't have a way to do that right now so is the you know is a is a vote on a U32 budget proper does it have legal standing and as but as far as I understand it the other statutes like the ones I mentioned those have not been no no I just want to say to you that this is why I think you need legal counsel to talk to let that through and you should choose someone that you'd like to use to do that you may choose not to do that that's fine but that's what I'm recommending to you okay is there any what if we were to for example as I shared with with Karen Adrian and you and Steven the idea of warning the U32 budget then we can we can at least you know lay down that marker and then you know consult with attorneys along the way it just seems to me that I I have this sense that there's this weird game of chicken going on in which our budget is kind of the piece in play and I would like to take it out of play because it's just too important to to have it slip with you I've said to the Association last week my main goal is protecting their jobs right now but I think you need advice that can be happened pretty quickly I think you can still get what you said in your email you like to have an April 9th election you could probably still do both I mean have the legal advice then decide to warn it do any of the firms on your list have particular expertise in this arena or they all for there they all believe except for Paul Giuliani and Paul Giuliani's work when he has worked with schools he's usually been on bonds and finance not so much 49 46 area the other three firms that have listed our work with school districts and there are others as well Steve's Dissells another one we haven't worked with him so I mean there are others that there are three there's really about four or five downs right there they're making those are the five that I know they do school war. Chris Leopold has worked with us specifically on that 46 he's been advising on that. As soon as the articles agree on the committee selected to work with. Which I guess you haven't had I've been on a couple conference calls with him I would have no hesitation on consulting with him based on the little I know you definitely have some expertise in this particular law. Yeah I hate to say this this is not a comment on the legal profession at all but it just seems to me that we've had a pretty steady stream of legal advice through this process and we don't seem to have really gotten anywhere and I'm sure it has nothing to do with the quality of that advice which undoubtedly is very professional but I think at a certain point you know it's our job to do our job and I feel confident enough that if we follow the existing statutes that the worst that can happen is that the the preliminary injunction is not issued and we go forward with the merger and the morning is superseded. Which morning? The U-32 budget. The local school budget. So you're forward with that? Yes. And wait to see what happens with the merger? Well we can't yeah at this point the transitional board is adjourned to an event certain as I understand it the issuance of the preliminary injunction or non issuance of that. So that date is nobody knows what that date is however we do know that there's a critical date of April 15 so to me the just the sensible and safe thing to do is to warn at least our local budget so we have that covered in case the judge in this you know sort of either or situation in case the judge does issue the preliminary injunction that okay we've got that set we're on track and if he doesn't then we just you know it's plan B or plan A whichever you know it's merge budget versus the school budget. I know it it's not pretty it's not elegant but I just I just want to build in that redundancy so that we don't get stuck in a in a bind without a budget with everybody sort of saying this is what a mess. Okay now I'm hearing four options one is we could do nothing two is we could seek a recommendation before we do anything else three we could warn as you say and and take a vote and see what happens and fourth would be I also heard you suggest this warn and get a recommendation yeah the recommendation comes back that this has no legal basis don't do this then we really have to consider well then we would have to reconsider the warning but I mean is there any reason that that fourth option couldn't be seek advice and then one the problem is time and I and also I mean I have to confess when this was originally though there's an emergency meeting and I guess it's since been sort of tamped down to a special meeting I thought oh great we're gonna do something because it's an emergency and an emergency you do something seeking advice doesn't really rise to that level for me I I mean I think advice is really important but I think the sense of urgency is correct the reason why we're here on a on a lousy night on school vacation week I think there is there there is important work to be done so I would just say let's go for it and do it and if we if in the you know in the course of time we discover that we need to shift something then we do that but but at least we have something scheduled that would be this budget see the logic of that why did you pick April 9th it's a Tuesday I briefly looked at the schedules of the towns and it didn't appear there didn't appear to be anything it's a week or it's one week before the April vacation is that correct we're two weeks so it doesn't coincide with April vacation and it's 42 days from now not including today and not including April 9th which gives perhaps I might just sort of mention my one concern about this is that it becomes a bit of a forcing event for two towns that Middlesex and East Montpelier they might feel obliged or kind of dragged into doing the same thing on the same day why not was there doesn't Mr. vote from the floor they don't have an article on their town meeting so they could they would vote yeah right and that would not work I would not imagine on April 9th but Worcester would be able then to do it because people work okay I think it's a good point that we should be thinking about the other towns two of them are gonna meet later this week East Montpelier met on Friday yes what did they do they decided to see the council of Chris Leopold they're willing to work with others as long as on the limited scope that they wrote their motion for which I brought those minutes with me Middlesex is meeting on Wednesday night at six o'clock and Worcester is meeting at six o'clock on Thursday night and have you reached out to Chris Leopold do you have a sense of his yeah he's willing to make his time as soon as we can as soon as we can get people together I said I talked to him he's not looking at dates yet in terms of they said they on Friday at their meeting they were willing to work with others so they said let's try to pull this together so we can share the expense but they also understood if it didn't work they didn't work so they were being a little flexible but you know wanting to get this done as well tell me more about 30 to 40 days is that really a window it's the window for posting the warning you can post the warning 30 to 40 days so the drop dead date away is somewhere around April or March 14th if you want off what date off April 15th if we want it we want to have a vote so we want it if well let's do we go back to Scott's date so we don't get so confused here sure April 9th should be the Tuesday before the right would you be the Tuesday before the 15th you would have to have a date of the 10th or 11th because there's 31 days I literally like to count these things to make sure I don't have a problem that's just the same thing yeah it's like I literally made a math problem too much with you know I thought I think I'm pretty good at math so it would be March 10th or 11th 10th is a Sunday 11th you would have to post it by I don't want to count that just to be sure and then for the 15th you'd be looking at you know the that's a Monday so you wouldn't be looking at the 15th or 16th of March so so what I'm hearing is that we could still make this mark or it's April 9th which I think makes a lot of sense make that date if we make a decision by March 8th which is what end of next week Friday next week and if you were going to go with the budget that you were presented and recommended we can spin that up pretty quickly into a morning yeah how long would that take a day we've had dual speaking for myself I would not be comfortable going forward without legal counsel I don't mind the idea of warning just to get get the ball rolling and then get a recommendation and go from there however I do see the logic of syncing up with the other schools in terms of legal advice if we all choose the same counsel and the vote date me too and I think that I'm using the the attorney we used prior Chris we have all might expediate the process well yeah so then if we went that's with that scenario we would be calling another meeting of this board East Montpelier hopefully and maybe others within the next 10 days another emergency meeting emergency these are special oh sorry yes according to the statute emergency is one that you have to have with it 24 hours you don't necessarily post as soon as you can yeah my I mean if it if it all works out in that wonderful I hesitate to say utopian way but I would just like to know that if there are any glitches along the way that we have to do this that we need a budget and I mean maybe possibly can't get a quorum together in the next 10 days but that could happen yeah so is there any logic to calling the warning the April 9th now sort of holding it I would feel much better just a poison information I'm not trying to stop you from either way or just point information you have to be scheduled for March the Wednesday after town meeting we do about this group on March 6th yeah yeah it's still it's still kind of feels wrong to me that even such a basic step as warning our budget we have to seek legal counsel it's just something that we've done this one of the basic most elemental functions and school board things have changed but they started they started off the comments speaking to how you were speaking to acting under the laws we understood it that law has changed the law that used to have us call that meeting it's no longer the law of the land or time it is that's the time being it hasn't been revealed it hasn't the the new law of the land is like hanging there whereas the statutes are there there and as far as I know nothing has changed well as far as I know I don't know enough to be confident moving forward without the advice of a yeah I think I think most of the board is there but I mean I did the idea of getting it on the in the books however if we are if we have a meeting I didn't realize we had a meeting on March 6th that my suggestion would be let's go with that day if we were the attorney I'm quite sure we're gonna have a quorum and we could even potentially you have to bring you a warning ready to go I we need to bring you back together to have you approve the warning I would like you to do that I don't think you want to just give me playing my first possibility to do that and I need you all to sign that it's not my authority to approve a warning and anyway if even if you said we want to warn you tonight I think so when the next time we're getting together to approve the warning yeah like I'm serious when he'll take us an hour to prep the warning but I need all of you to approve it and authorize it to go out so are these the instructions that we're getting though then to be ever a motion yeah but I I removed that we instructed to prepare warning for our next meeting on March 6th did you say can do that for an April 9th day and that will provide a chance for the others the other towns these those that are meeting between now and then will have a chance to react to this initiative and we'll be able to kind of say hey that sounds good or we'll wait a second what about another day that will serve better sure like that I guess okay you want to say a little more about the warning the warning of the U32 budget for 20 for the school year 2019 2020 as as what did we do we pass it did we transmit it then we do you know me too we've done that most years we usually approve it the same meeting okay when we brought the budget to you recommended it to the transition board it's all we recommend it back to the transition board is all you did at that time right you didn't approve the budget no we're waved it on with our blessings I will be asking you and not necessarily that meeting but somewhere before April 15 where you stand on authorizing contracts to be sent out it was that part of the brief for the attorney yes because you have a mixture of teacher master agreement and statutes and fiscal requirements with the state which are all statutes as well that you need to make decisions as a board we have to instruct superintendent to prepare a warning of the U32 budget for the school year 2019 for the next board meeting March 6th for an April night we're not at this point dealing with the legal counsel piece but maybe it's cleaner to just leave it that for a moment is there a second discussion we kind of did okay all those in favor hi any opposed okay so that passes is there a motion on legal counsel potentially also for March 6th it may be another time so I'll give you that okay because I'm trying to coordinate calendars right now for it I think what I've heard from these on failure and talking with Christmas Bay the chair of Middlesex and the chair of Worcester they want to do it as soon as possible okay so okay I just want I don't want any illusions they want to do what is mean with the attorney as soon as possible or if there's a collaborative approach if not right there are a motion about seeking legal counsel yes I'm not sure what to say so we've got those two bodies seeking legal counsel also I guess what we're looking for is to seek legal counsel around the legion of us so before you make a motion may I read some sure yes please the East Montclair board in their motion they said was to seek legal counsel for advice regarding next steps on budgets and teacher contracts Rumen made the motion to select Chris Leopold as legal counsel for advice ensuring East Montclair elementary school remains operational including vice-teacher master agreement and presenting a budget for Kawhi 1920 motion passed unanimously I would mimic that motion replacing me and you 32 for Ruben and East Montclair a second discussion should we think about the actually a second opinion like we seen double the legal counsel from the guy who said yeah the reason is because lawyers are not unlike doctors and it might be nice to have a stereoscopic view and spread the wealth so that you know I look at it as we're in uncharted water so I agree with that so the question would be who in that case is there sort of I don't really know these lawyers and how they when they come out there their material from what kind of perspective we're not seeking legal I mean a written opinion it sounds like this or is that what he's one players no they're not seeking a conversation call and hopefully be on site okay be here I mean we didn't really get into it that much I would suggest it seems pretty unusual to two yeah attorneys in the room yeah I'm just raising it as as a consideration well there is a motion on the floor I did so need to be amended or have a second action yeah I sort of wanted to flush out yeah you like it I do but I'm thinking about the timeline prior to having two attorneys in the room so that they could flush it out and come back to us with something legit but I'm genuinely curious as to what they don't find girl I understand the drive to seek out two opinions for the sake of understanding I guess the reason I'm seeking out the legal information is really sort of the safety net to our assumptions to the course of action we're taking and to my mind having you know being able to point to a legal opinion in terms of my decision making that's adequate to me I have heard enough concern about expenses over lawyers from our populous in the last couple weeks that I have not inclined to spend twice as much as I need to feel comfortable moving forward myself so there's an aspect I want to air on my own safety net and the frugality of the taxpayers again yeah I think what Carl says is very sensible revisiting my experience of working on a lot of these issues where there has been legal advice from time to time I've noted that the legal advice tends to be in the form of I really can't do that this is really kind of problematic it always seems to be in work in the direction of suppressing action what I would be very happy to have is actually an attorney advise us how do we make sure given the universe of possibilities that is out there that we might have to face how do we make sure we have a budget going into the next screw you know but that's what I think that's my number one question without the voters we can't guarantee anything so I don't know the legal opinion matters at that point if we can't get a budget voted on I just think you need to be advised that's right and that's what we have to do and you're definitely right we should be asking for what our options are and what the risk associated with the various options are because attorneys are risk averse you know you just have to have that keep that in mind so we have a motion in a second yeah it's the same garbage that he's not carl what he moved to select personally appalled as legal counsel for advice on ensuring you 32 remain operational including advice on the teacher master agreement and presenting a budget for FY 19 any further discussion okay all those in favor say aye aye any post steam okay so that passes anything else on this topic all right so you'll be in touch about I'm gonna be talking with Chris tomorrow so we have at least two I'm gonna start with dates again you know we'll see for middle sex and right where the there's other meetings Wednesday and Thursday I'm really shooting for Monday or Tuesday actually gonna be some people here on Monday night right in the spring it's that's the possibility as well that's my same issue just on your two days time meeting I understand what it is all right trying to get to use okay so I ask got to bring us up to speed if you could about what's happening in Calis with regard to the property there right well I think members of the articles committee which is just two of us are aware of this but Calis the Calis select board and the Calis school board have been meeting together to look at securing once again securing rights of Calis towns people to use of the property after you know a possible consolidation so there are basically three documents that the town that the municipality of Calis is lawyer has drawn up his name just where it goes Jim Barlow one of them is an easement one of them is a school use agreement and one of them is and is a purchase option is our call and bill please feel free to correct me if I if I send you think I'm clear or incorrect the easement would essentially allow the town of Calis to continue using the Calis elementary school for the same purposes that Calis elementary is used for now say emergency shelter location for town meeting for different town board and commission meetings that sort of thing what the easement does is essentially and this is why the lawyers were brought in to kind of scrutinize this it would the easement would convey with the property to the new consolidated district and my understanding is that the lawyers found nothing wrong with such an arrangement per se the issue was equity with the other towns that the other towns know by rise out to have something comparable chance of what chance for that exactly the school use agreement is does not well I guess the agreement goes with the school but there's a certain term to it I believe so I have to tell you Scott that I stayed a little I stayed out of it okay try not to trip it up that's absolutely fine I know that Scott Cameron has given back advice and his partner has done the advice as well as a real estate attorney so right you know I don't have just advice in front of me so I don't want to paraphrase from what I don't sure I know that there were some concerns that Scott Cameron brought up to the Calis school right the way I recall I might be getting this wrong that the easement was basically you know as you say there's it seems fine on a surface as long as the other towns are aware of it and have the similar option yes to create something the other two pieces it seemed like that there was actually diminishment in value of the property and was a more problematic from the attorney's point of view on this so I don't yeah I first option the school the option to purchase agreement that would convey as well these are these are all issues that we deal with in the articles committee right that the town is proposing to kind of incorporate into the property prior to consolidation so it's it's essentially dragging the what might otherwise be articles language into the sort of the property that's where Scott Cameron got his piece about property value because if ever they couldn't strip him out of right right so anyway I guess I just wanted to make sure that other other board members were aware of this it seems significant and wanted to get a sense of what were the next steps for call so they are they planning to vote on this well there seems to be some thought that it could this this could be done without a vote without a town vote just between the school board and select board but I don't my understanding is that the callous school board is not yet ready to do that they want to make sure that everything's up and up and kosher this was at least my communication with Susanna yeah to that effect you know do they have a plan to reach out to other school boards or their town I think so I think Dorothy in particular wanted to share this methodology with the articles group to make sure that everybody was aware and was able to kind of think about it please does this have anything to do with you 32 in the property here I it shouldn't it shouldn't so this is a matter for our school board no this is this is sort of I just I was that's fine I just wondered why our school board was considered oh because we consider everything and because there's a representatives from other towns here yeah target opportunity okay any other questions about that discussion all right is there anything else magic asked how we're communicating the results of this to our community I'm just asked for more communication sake I mean I feel like I'm asking a community member right now actually I'd like for communities to know what's happening so that they're aware is something beyond our normal front porch form no I mean I just called for miss well we actually have town meeting when yeah but I do you think a front porch form posting yeah you're always ready to do something yeah be happy with that you want to drown something and we're gonna buy me and we'll get it out by the end of the week I mean a few sentences I appreciate that yeah yeah it's gonna be and it will be our talking points for town meeting right because we're all going to town meeting and talking about something but I'll be going to town on this all right volunteering for that anything else our guest you have any final comments or questions for us I appreciate hearing the conversation and the deliberations that you're going through it's really challenging and thank you very much thank you for coming yeah okay if that's it then we'll adjourn by consensus at six