 The question was, where can we buy this if we believe in this? In this field, like a plug, but I don't mean for it to be. But I'm running an Indiegogo campaign actually right now. So if you're interested in supporting it in some way, you can donate. And if you look up Indiegogo where we stand, it's there. But almost more importantly, it's going to go into Film Festival, so it's premiering in two weeks in Texas at a documentary Film Festival there, and then goes to Montana, and goes to Nevada, and Omaha, and starting to kind of go into that world, and then I'll release it online in about a year. But if you really want to see it again, I mean I'm not precious with it, and I want people to be able to see it that are interested in seeing it, and I'm happy to send people private links too. If you look up my name, I'm online and easy to get in touch with, and happy to send it. So the question from Laurie is, why did I decide to make this film? So I'm not Mormon, so I get this question all the time. And it's interesting, I was thinking, I'm just standing because I can't see people if I sit, but I'm a filmmaker, so I've made films about really wide range of subjects, and this is the one that always trips people up, I think, in terms of choosing it. Both if you're not Mormon, I think there's some othering that goes on, I think, with Mormonism and Mormons outside of Mormonism. So I've gotten a lot of curiosity about, like, why would you choose this thing that feels kind of like an insider problem? And then from Mormons similarly, I've gotten, why would you choose this thing that feels like an insider problem to kind of focus on. So I'm a feminist and really interested in women's issues, and I would say that the first reason I chose to make the film was just, like, at this documentary gut level, I was like, this is a really interesting story, a group of people, it's a really interesting problem, activism or advocacy within religion. So it just started in a shallow place of research, and then I talked to, like, probably 50 people over the course of a year, and then sort of had a process of self-discovery about the fact that I'm really interested in organizing in religion because I was raised Catholic and then left when I was 20 because of some problems I had with the faith, and I come from a very religious family who remains extraordinarily religious. So I've realized how much I'm sort of drawn to this struggle within religion for equality. I have a family that's LGBTQ and was treated very poorly by the Catholic Church. So through that, I've actually kind of kept going down this path and I'm making stories that are closer to home. So there's a film called For the Bible Tells Me So that came out maybe 10 years ago about LGBTQ people's experience in conservative religious families, and they're doing a follow-up and I'm helping with that film now. So it's been a really incredible journey, I would say, for me personally in kind of figuring out why I did make this film. So it's such a simple question but has such a long answer. So anyway, there you go. And also, if there's questions for Lori, like, I was joking that I should be doing a Q&A with Lori because she's a tiny part of the film but a huge part of the movement. So anyway. When did you have admitted to the local broadcast? I think that was a year ago, this April, a year ago. Well, there were people who went locally in a lot of different places. Here, there was a group here in the Bay Area in Los Angeles, a group tried in Atlanta, you know, a lot of different places, Washington, D.C. Some were admitted, some weren't. Yeah, the question is it was implied in the film that Abby was given permission to enter. This was at the Marriott Center in Utah Valley. It was given permission from the woman who had allowed her in, had been directed by someone from above that she should be let in and I think that's true. We don't know. Could you stand up maybe? It doesn't seem like Ms. Dirkley, the brother, ever respond to direct confrontation. This was so confrontational. Knowing the organization, knowing the brethren, what did you really plan to accomplish? Knowing the brethren, why did you choose this method? Yeah, the question was, why did ordained women choose this kind of line of activism or this kind of activism? Actually, I really do feel like handing the mic to you, but I guess I did speak to a tremendous amount of women that weren't in the film and people, not just women, but the women, I showed the women in the film, and I would say that a lot of people taught that I spoke to, their first moment of activism within Mormon feminism was through ordained women. It was often, I've talked to a lot of people that were on the sidelines and kind of reading about maybe Mormon feminists and then went for it, and I think it's because it was like concrete, it was a concrete thing for people to be able to do, to put themselves on the line for, that felt like a strong action and also it involved being in a community of people, like being with people, which I thought was strong, but this isn't the authoritative answer, but that was what I gathered from it, and it wasn't necessarily, I guess, and people knew that making change this way would be very hard, but also extremely impactful, and that, I think, drew people to it. That's what I noted. The line you're referring to is that there had been a lot written about ordination over the years. I mean, several people like Nadine Hansen, Margaret Toscano, I read a few things. A number of us were pro-ordination since the 70s, but, I mean, Carolyn Pearson, I mean, she's certainly written towards that, right, that you see, in your work, but certainly in terms of women's spiritual empowerment and all of that. I mean, there had been a lot of that written, but it had been a lot of traction, you know, in terms of it, and so it seemed like activism was appropriate, and a number of us had been talking about what we should do in an activist way. I mean, here at this conference three years ago, it was the same weekend we launched ordained women. We had a Catholic Mormon dialogue in women's ordination. There was an effort to maybe join with women of other religious communities who were advocating for the ordination of women and the equitable treatment of women in all of our religious organizations. For me, there had been a question of, you know, increasingly with the women's movement here, at least in the United States, increasingly women were in a secular arena, were refusing to accept subordinate status, you know, and yet, and so we found this sort of paradox where women were increasing, refusing to accept a subordinate role in their secular lives, and yet they were embracing it in their religious lives. How did that work? And so a lot of us were thinking in terms of activism. And I think for Kate, I don't want to speak for her, but in talking with her, there was this sort of sense that she was a return missionary and very much came out of an activist background. I think she refers to that in the film. Activism at BYU and those sorts of things. And for her activism was sort of a boots on the ground thing. And so she wanted to bring that component to activism in terms of this issue. That is sort of talking around your question to a certain extent. I mean, maybe we should open this up to the group because, you know, how does one do activism and Mormonism is a more general question. I mean, not just on women's issues, but on gay and lesbian, LGBTQ issues. How does one affect change in Mormonism? I mean, we have, I don't want to go on and on and on, but maybe we can all sort of discuss this a bit. We have a theology that is hospitable to change, and yet why are we so hostile to it? That's a huge question I think that we all need to ask ourselves in terms of Mormonism. Do members play a part in the process of revelation? Do we ask, are we responsible as members of an organization to ask questions and to let people know what our concerns are? And if you believe in the process of revelation, so that our leaders know what questions and concerns to take to God. I mean, those are all questions that I think this film raises, don't you think? In a very accessible way. And I don't know what is appropriate religious as opposed to political activism. Are they different? These are all questions that we have thought about in terms of ordained women and opposed to ourselves since day one. Explicitly in the movie, Kate said that she felt that only confrontation was going to really raise the profile of the issue, that it was so sub-rosa at the time that having a confrontation was not going to accomplish change in and of itself, that you're absolutely right. Somebody against the wall makes them stiff in their back, but to bring the issue to the fore enough that people would really talk about it, it was really useful to have confrontation. That's what Kate said, whether that was, you know, Laura can talk to how general that feeling was. But if you think about change, it's really multifaceted. It takes a lot of different kinds of input. It takes people on the inside and people on the outside pushing at the same time and people asking real questions. So this is playing one of those roles. Back there. Excommunication, there was a lot of fear that there would be similar actions taken against other people in ordained women. Was that very prevalent? And what have we seen in the time since? Has there been a shift in the way that this has been dealt with and approached? I think what has happened in terms of the reaction to ordained women in terms of church discipline and that sort of thing is that we've really, it's punctuated the fact that we have in the church, leader roulette is the phrase that's been thrown out a lot, that it all depends on your local leaders. And there are some people who have been, have their temple recommends taken away. I would say we did a survey, one of the people who answered the survey among the people who participate in actions, whether by proxy or in person with ordained women, only about 15% had experienced some form of church discipline, which for the most part wasn't excommunication in most cases. It was perhaps a threat of it, it might have been. It was usually having their temple recommends denied. A number felt ostracized somewhat from their religious communities, but that's a very small percentage. I don't want to minimize its impact in the lives of those women, but it's a very small percentage of ordained women supporters who have been in any way informally or formally disciplined. Does that answer your question? Yes. Okay. There's a similarity, I think, my identification of the focus of the problem in getting people to think more clearly about religious is the plenary thinking that people have. That if you're a Mormon, then you have to agree with everything. If you don't agree with everything and you're not a Mormon, why do you care? I can wash you off. And I used to think that way, so. I feel like I can target everybody, some people. I met you in those binary papers until my daughter came up, and then all of a sudden I was like, oh my gosh. And I stopped thinking that way, but I don't know how to make other people stop thinking in that binary way. And that's where I got stuck. Well, and part of what was implicit in what you said is it's by getting to know people. So get to know a feminist. Do you get to know a feminist? Do you get to know a gay member of your congregation? And it changes everything. Because when it's personalized, then you start thinking it's a little, you're a little less likely to think in that binary way, I think. I think we have, okay, one more, right there. What is the ultimate goal? So the question was, what are the goals for the film? It's really just to get it out in the world. I mean, you could do a whole panel on this film and talk like nothing about Mormonism and just talk about independent film and what a weird beast it is, especially with short films. But in short, how it works in general is you try to kind of build up the momentum of the film through film festival distribution. So that's first. The next year is film festivals. So a big part of the reason I have an Indiegogo is like film festivals cost money to apply to. And then it costs money to travel to them. So the next year will be spent in film festivals and probably between 20 and 30 is my suspicion that it'll kind of get into it. I've been telling Laura it has an incredible batting average for getting acceptances right now. And then through that, trying to release it online. So you hope through film festival distribution that you get the eyes of people from the New York Times or HBO or stars. There's a couple other places that do short documentaries and then sometimes you get rejected from all of them. And if I do that, then it'll go up on Vimeo and YouTube. So it'll definitely get out there. I mean, the Atlantic is going to release, you are the first people to know this, but the Atlantic will release a sneak peek on Tuesday. So it is really going to get out there. It's not holding it close to my chest. But the reason that independent filmmakers tend to wait is you want to try to build up momentum and attention to it so that in the end more people see it. So that's the plan. But it'll be free and widely available within the year. That's the plan. So the question is, what was my major? So in undergrad, I did cultural anthropology and my master's is in documentary film. So I just finished my master's. Thanks. She gave me a thumbs up. Thank you. So, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Laurie.