 Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining class. I hope you had a good learning experience in the first two hours and ready to get into Romans chapter 7. You know, Romans is quite a heavy book, something that we need to really think and understand what Paul is writing because he comes from a very scholarly view in this scholarly perspective in this book. But it's an interesting learning experience for us because so many doctrines, we get more clarity on where they're able to understand the truths that apply to our own life and that can help us to continue running our race, knowing these truths and also knowing these truths to teach others. So today, we'll be looking at Romans chapter 7. Before we look at Romans chapter 7, can one of you please lead us in prayer? Anyone? Anyone can lead us in prayer, please? Siddhant, would you like to lead us in prayer? OK, thank you. Father, in the name of Jesus, Lord, we surrender everything to you. Let the word of your grace, which is our problem, talk to us first. We surrender everything to your hand. We surrender to the teacher, that your Holy Spirit help us in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you, Siddhant. Thought somebody had their hand up. OK, today we'll be looking at Romans chapter 7. In chapter 6, Paul has already established the fact that we have been justified freely by grace, by the grace of God. We have been made righteous in God's sight. We have a standing in grace. And then he talks about how we can live a life victorious over sin. And also in chapter 6, Paul presents to us the truth of identification, that through our identification with Christ or in Christ, in his death, in his resurrection, in his crucifixion, his death, his burial, his resurrection, in his ascension, and him being seated at the right hand, it also we identify with him. And we identify with him in the sense that through his death, the old man in us, the old nature, the whole sinful nature, has been crucified. And the power of sin over our lives has been broken. And hence, he says that we no longer have a sinful nature in our inner person. We no longer have a sinful nature in our inner person that is exerting its influence from the inside out. And then he also talks about, he's talking about the spiritual reality, which he refers to as the positional truth that we have in Christ. And then he goes on to the end of the middle of chapter 6, said today, and he talks about how he gives us practical actions that we have to take in order to walk experientially in this spiritual reality that we have in Christ, or the practical actions that we need to take to live this positional truth that we have in Christ. Now in Romans chapter 7, it's a challenging chapter, actually, for those who study the Word of God, who study the Bible, students of the Bible, especially when they are studying Romans chapter 7. It's quite a challenging chapter because Paul refers to himself as I in several places in this chapter. So when we are reading this chapter, you will notice that there is a lot of eyes that is mentioned, which Paul is referring to himself. And it's not clear whether he's talking about himself before he was saved or after he was saved. So all of these things that he's talking in chapter 7, where he's using the word I is referring to himself, people are confused, people study the Bible, people who are students of the Bible, they're confused whether Paul is talking about himself before he was saved or whether he's talking about himself after he was saved. So it's not clear whether he was talking about himself as being saved and struggling in the flesh or people are even confused. Where was Paul in his spiritual journey as he refers to himself in Romans 7? So this is a big question mark that is in the mind of many of them who study word of God, especially Romans chapter 7. Now, when we read different Christian books, the authors would explain things from their own perspective based on a presumption of a certain position that they hold on to. So some say that Paul is talking about himself as a new believer and he's struggling with the sin. He's struggling with sin in his flesh or the weakness in his flesh. Or some people say that Paul is talking about the life of every believer on this earth. So that could be another position that people could take. What they are trying to say is that if you are a believer, for the rest of your life, you are going to be struggling with sin. So people who are writing on Romans chapter 7, they either say that Paul is talking about himself as a new believer. When he became a new believer and he's struggling with the issue of sin, or he's basically talking about the life of every believer on this earth because, and they say that all of us as believers for the rest of our life are going to be struggling with sin, that is what they come to a conclusion when they read this and when they write about this. But I would like to share my viewpoint or our viewpoint and I'm not forcing the viewpoint on you. We're not forcing our viewpoint on you or forcing my idea or my point of view on you. I'm convinced from Romans chapter 7 and even as we read it, you will look for it yourself and you can make your own decision, but I'm convinced that Paul is talking of himself when he was an unsaved person, when he was an unsaved person, when he was under the law. And he's talking of his struggles as a good man, still unsaved, living under the law. But when we move to Romans 8, he's talking about salvation and the life in Christ. So for my standpoint, my point of view is that, I'm convinced from Romans chapter 7, that Paul is talking of himself when he was an unsaved person, who is under the law and he's talking of the struggles he was having as a good man. Even when he was under the law, he was unsaved. He says he's a good man, still unsaved and living under the law. So in my understanding, as we read Romans chapter 7, yes, say it. Sorry, pastor, I was going to let you finish. I was just raising my hand to indicate that I, as you were talking, I think I support your point because it's a very huge contrast of life. The moment you become a Christian, the Holy Spirit is in you to direct your life. Whereas under the law, as a Pharisee, everything was done in the flesh to please God. Whereas within him, he was having that struggle to do that which pleases the flesh. So I kind of support your point, Ma. I've never actually really, really seen it that direction, but I do support your point. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, say it. So in my understanding, even as we read Romans 7, whatever has been said does not apply to a believer. Okay? I'll repeat that again. My understanding as we read Romans 7, whatever has been said does not apply to a believer. It applies to somebody. And in this case, we're talking about Paul, who was not yet saved yet, but he was a good man who was living under the law and it's showing the struggle of any person who's trying to live right, but does not have the life of God and him or does not have the power of the Holy Spirit in him. Just like say he said just now, okay? So this is how we understand Romans 7 and I wanted us to be aware that, you know, different Bible teachers will see things differently while it's quite clear for me that Paul is referring to himself in Romans 7, while he's under the law. Some people may say it is a struggle of every believer throughout their lives, but I don't think that is right because Paul has already told us in Romans 6 that the power of sin is broken over our lives and sin will have no dominion over our lives once we are in Christ. So Romans 7 cannot be an experience of a believer for the rest of their lives. They cannot have sin, dominate their lives because Paul already says that, you know, in Romans chapter 6 that we are dead to sin. Why are we dead to sin because we're alive in Christ? You know, a dead person cannot sin and we've already seen that, I've already explained. So I don't think that's right because he's already told us in Romans chapter 6 that the power of sin is broken, sin will have no more dominion over us. So in Romans 7, you know, cannot be an experience of a believer for the rest of their lives, sin cannot dominate their lives, but it's of a person, it's talking basically of a person who's under the law and not under the power of the Holy Spirit, but it's a good man, it's a good person, it's a good woman, you know, so it has a good heart and who wants to do good. Okay? Yes, Christopher. Yes, Pastor, I just wanted to clarify or ask you for the clarification. You said Paul, before he was became a believer, that was the time when he actually, I mean, Jesus spoke to him, right, on the way to... The masses, yeah. Encounter with Jesus, he spoke to him, and then, yes. But before that, I thought he was, you know, he was persecuting Christians and, you know, he was, so I don't know, I'm not sure, you know, how, when he was placed, you know, I guess, being a good man. I guess that I just want to clarify. The second point I just wanted to just mention to you or again, seek the clarification is that as I sort of understand, we are, you know, as a believer, we live in, we live a life with some absolute truths and absolute, you know, and these are right in front of us and, you know, we have to accept it. But I think there is, there are, you know, just levels of believers and, you know, how they sort of, you know, use those absolute truths. So, for example, in verse, in chapter six, where, you know, we become new men. I mean, we become a new man. How many of us, as believers, we really demonstrate that. And, you know, sometimes, you know, fall because we sort of, you know, go back to our old man. So I guess I just wanted to, you know, make a point where, you know, there is, there are absolute truths which we believe in. And, but yet, we are, you know, we are weak, yeah. Fall sometimes, yeah. True. Yeah, good points. The first thing is, you know, how can we say he's a good man? Paul, in his own eyes, he would see himself as a good man because he was a zealous Jew, okay? He was not looking at, you know, he was trying to do away with the so-called Jesus, what we would say, Jesus freaks, or, you know, a so-called those who are spreading about Jesus Christ because he thought that was totally against Judaism. And he was a zealous Jew and he was doing what a zealous Jew would do. So in his eyes, yes, he was a good man. But then, of course, you know, he realizes that later, but here he's talking about, you know, that he's a good man in the sense that, you know, he was a zealous Jew studying the scriptures, you know, rooming other things that were coming in the way of the Jews, fighting for the Jewish race, for the laws, for the commands, the Old Testament Torah, very zealous in that sense, and also somebody who's well studied and knowledgeable about the Old Testament law, okay? So this is talking about when he was, you know, before he was in Christ. And yes, the second thing what you mentioned is so true that, you know, we see all of these truths here, but sometimes we are not mindful of the truths. And I think, you know, it's the spirit of God again that brings about these truths, reiterates these truths. And hence it's so important for us to read God's word, to meditate the level of intimacy that we have, you know, also not only brings in greater anointing, and also, you know, we see God using us mightily when, you know, when we come from that place of intimacy. So our, you know, our extension of our ministry is our intimacy with God. It's the power that we are receiving when we are intimate with God. And it's also meditating on God's word. The more we meditate on God's word, God's truth is inscribed on our hearts and minds. And it's the Holy Spirit who would help us to, you know, to live out these truths, to know these truths, to walk in these truths and to acknowledge these truths. And that is what was happening with the Old Testament, you know, they had the laws, but it was, it was something that they were doing as a ritual and hence God says, you know, I will give them a new heart. I will move their heart of stone, give them a heart of flesh and write my laws. Their heart and mind and my spirit will enable them and help them. It's the spirit of God. And so it's important for us to have intimacy not only with the Father, Son, but also the Holy Spirit read God's word. And that's when these truths become a reality in our lives because they are inscribed in our hearts and minds cannot be taken away. It was the Holy Spirit who keeps reminding us. And we read in John chapter 16, the Holy Spirit would teach us to remind us everything that Jesus has said or has spoken. Yes, Mangi. I hope that helped Christopher, sorry. No, it definitely helped. And, you know, I, as I said, I still subscribe to the point that, you know, that there are levels of believers. And, you know, even, you know, I mean, to quote something from the Bible also is that, you know, when it mentions about, you know, all our writers are like filthi rags. So that absolute level of holiness is never going to be possible. Even with all the, you know, with all everything that God has provided to us on the earth. So there will be a time, you know, during the judgment where, you know, judgment day when there will be a time when, you know, we will have to account for those. So I still think that there are levels of believers and, you know, some are able to read more, some are doing it less. Yes, there are different levels of believers, Christopher, but if you look at the parable of the seed, you know, it's the condition of the heart. So we can't continue being in one heart condition. We have to have, we have to develop a heart condition where the soil is good, you know. So it, like even Paul says here in Romans chapter six, you know, we have to walk. You know, he says, you have to walk. It's a choice that we have made. If you listen to my lecture that I said in the last class, it says, you know, it's a choice of our will. We have to choose, we have to walk. God has done all this for us, but that's why Paul is writing and saying, you have to walk in, you know, in what God has asked you to do. You know, you have to position yourself. So in the Bible also, positioning is very important. When you position yourself the right time, the right place, the right season, you know, you receive God's blessing. So we can't make it as an excuse that we are, yeah, we all are in different levels, but we can't keep being at the same level. We need to grow in our heart conditions. That's when we receive the truths, yeah. But yes, the people are in different levels. We acknowledge that. Yes, Mangee, have you hand up? Thank you, Pastor. Yeah, actually, you touched on the question I wanted to ask about a different level of creation, but you see the check in the, in current, although they had the truth, they believed Christ, they're still, they continue feeling. And yeah, so just want you to clarify that a little bit, it can help us out. They received Christ and they continue to feel. Thank you. Thank you, Mangee. Yes, Paul writes to the church at Corinth and he says that, you know, all of you are, you know, as believers, you are just flowing in the gifts of the spirit. You know, when you come, one of you has a word of prophecy, word of wisdom, word of knowledge. You know, you are just receiving from God. You are just mightily flowing in all the gifts, all of you, and you're there to give it. But he's talking about order, how to bring about order. You know, when somebody is prophesying, listen to them, wait for your turn. And then he also says, yes, you are flowing in all of these things, but you are still infants, babes in Christ. You know, can't give you solid food, you're still drinking milk. So he's actually, you know, writing to them and he is encouraging them or motivating them to see their spiritual position and stand. And it's not just flowing in the spiritual gifts that talks about your spiritual maturity, but he's saying that you need to come to the understandings of the truths of the doctrines in God's word. And you have to live out those truths. Those truths have to be evident in the way that you live, in the way that you, you know, you behave. You have to have the kingdom culture, the kingdom thinking, the kingdom lifestyle. So he says in all of these spiritual aspects, yes, you all are, you know, flowing my train the gifts, but still you are babes in Christ. Can't give you solid food, you're still drinking milk. And he says, it's time for you to move on, to learn about the spiritual truths, to grow in the things of God. Did that help, Mangi? Yes, but thank you. Okay, okay, so we'll move on. So Romans chapter seven, so you can read and you can, you know, you can see for yourself or you can take a stand, you know, who Paul is, what he's referring to himself, whether it is, you know, his life before he was saved or after he was saved, but you know, it cannot be, you know, a struggle of every believer throughout their lives because, you know, the power of sin is already broken in our lives, okay? Yes, Sey? Yes, Pastor, I just wanted to make an observation that I think the early fathers who wanted to make the reading of scriptures easy for us by dividing it into chapters and verses. In a way, yes, it was good, but it has kind of sectionalized some things such that when we're reading some chapters, we forget that there's a flow to what each writer is doing. Because if we look at it as a letter, I don't think we'll be having this conversation of, you know, who was Paul talking about, we would actually get it. But the moment you just make it a chapter, you just zero down that chapter, there's always this tendency to isolate it from all the flow of the gist from chapter one itself, you know, and all the points that he's trying to make. So I just wanted to point out that if we look at it from the beginning and keep going, then we would see where Paul is directing us and we'll easily get what you are saying. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, Sey. That's a very good observation. Thank you for pointing that out. Yes, I think chapters is kind of, you know, even breaking that trend of thought, the line of thought for us. That's why I go back to, you know, kind of reiterating what we have learned, what truths Paul has already established before we continue into the next chapter. But since it's a letter and, you know, there should not be any problem because we can clearly see and understand. But yes, this was some people who kind of get too deep into studying God's word that they're so deep into it and sometimes they can lose their own, you know, logical sense of reasoning. And so, you know, anyways, I just thought I'll mention this truth. I didn't want to confuse anybody. I didn't want to, because if you read somewhere else, you come across this and you'll have our own clarity and you can take your own stand, okay? Okay, thank you so much. We'll move on. So in chapter seven, you know, Paul is talking about the law, which he refers to as Old Testament law and he also talks about the law in the context of sin. Okay, which means the law of sin. He talks about the law which is referring to, in some places is referring to the Old Testament law. And then he also uses a law in the context of sin, which is saying the law of sin, which means the control or the dominion of sin that we have to deal with. So in this chapter seven, you know, Paul reveals that just as a believer is dead to sin, the believer is also dead to the law and is therefore free from the law. However, this does not mean that the law is sinful or it's evil in itself, you know, the law, as I've already mentioned previously, when we're talking about the law, I mentioned that the law is good, it serve the purpose, the law when it was thought about, it made people aware of sin. They knew, okay, what we're doing is sin because we're missing God's mark, we're going against him. We're breaking, we're doing something that is wrong. So the more, you know, we were made aware of sin, the more Paul says we want to break it and why do we break it? Because sin dwells in us. Sin is part of us. It's in my flesh. There is nothing, there is no good thing. And the law of sin is working in my flesh. And he says the sin is a law that is now controlling my body. And that's what he is talking in chapter seven. But you know, but he's basically saying that to a believer, a believer is dead to sin, is also dead to the law and is therefore free from the law. So the real problem actually is not the law, but the sin that rules and dominates the flesh and the members of our body, members of our body means the different parts of our body. Okay, the mind, the emotions, our attitudes, our reactions. And the law required people to do things in the strength of the flesh, which was impossible because sin already dominated the flesh. Okay, so sin was more noticeable by the law and only further exposed the weakness of the flesh because the more they tried to do it, they couldn't keep the law. The more they were sinning, the more they were breaking it. And so it exposed the weakness of the flesh. And then Paul highlights the struggle we face in the flesh where sin has dominated for so long. And then he prepares us for the truth that is revealed in chapter eight on how we can overcome the law of sin that works in our flesh by the Holy Spirit. So just briefly an overview of this chapter. Now let's study this chapter in detail. We'll read chapter seven versus one to six. So can somebody please read chapter seven versus one to six, please. Romans chapter seven, one to six. Knowing not brethren, for I speak to them that know the law, how that the law had dominion over a man as long as he lived. For the woman which had, and husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he lived. But if the husband be dead, she is lost from the law of her husband. So then if while her husband lives, she gets married to another man, she'll be called an adulteress. But if her husband be dead, she's flee from that law. So that she's no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore my brethren, you also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ that you should be married to another. Even to him who is raised from the dead that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins which were by the law did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law that being dead, wherein we were held that we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Thank you, Susan. So here Paul is specifically speaking to Jewish believers because he's talking about the law and it's only the Jewish believers who are familiar with the law, the law of Moses. It's not referring to the Gentiles because they did not have the law. And why is he saying to, how do we know he's talking to Jewish believers because he calls them brethren? So hence, Jews because he's talking, they have the law and they are believers because he refers to them as brethren. So he's specifically here writing or communicating to Jewish believers. And he's talking about life before they were in Christ and life after when they are in Christ. So life before and after they are in Christ. And he's talking about how life has changed or life was changed once they are in Christ. So before the Jewish brethren were under the law but now he's impressing upon them or he's helping them understand that they are no longer under the law once they are in Christ, once they are in Christ, he says they are free from the law. So to help them to understand this, he's using an analogy of a wife, okay? And he says a wife by law, she is bound to a husband, okay? And if a husband dies, she's free to marry someone else because she's no longer bound to the law. She's released from the law of a husband. That's when verse two. For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to a husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she's released from the law of her husband, okay? So he's saying brethren, I want you to know that you have been dead to the law through your identification with Christ or you being in Christ, okay? That is what he says in verse four. Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ that you may be married to another. To him who was raised from the dead, that is he's referring to married to another. To him who was raised from the dead is to be married to Jesus Christ or to come into spiritual union with Jesus Christ that we should bear fruit to God. So here he's saying, brethren, I want you to know that you've been dead to the law and how you've been dead to your law once you were identified with Christ in his crucifixion, in his death, in his burial, in his resurrection, his ascension and him being seated on the right hand of the Father, okay? You identify with him and you being in Christ, you are now dead to the law. So the shift has taken place, you know? And he's saying that when we were outside the body of Christ or when we were not in Christ, you know, he's saying that we were under the law but now since we are identified with Christ, we are in the body of Christ, you know? We are in Christ, we are no longer under the law. So a shift has taken place, a shift from being outside the body of Christ and now being in the body of Christ. Now when they were outside the body of Christ, you know, as I just said there, you know, they are under the law but now when they are in the body of Christ or they are in Christ, he uses the phrase, you know, you are married to another, okay? Which means that they are in Christ or in the body of Christ, you know, they are married to another and they are now in Christ. And once they are in Christ now, they are dead to the law. So far, so far for a believer as far as a believer is concerned, you know, he's dead to the law, okay? It's over, it's gone. And now, you know, a believer is in the body of Christ. They are married to Christ. That means, married means they're spiritually united with Christ, they're one with Christ, they are in Christ. And then in verses five and six, he says, when we were in the flesh, which means, you know, when they were not believers but living in the past sinful life, he says, the sinful passions aroused by the law, which means the sinful passions were highlighted by the law or the law brought about or showed us our sinful passions. It means it was a law that said, do not steal, do not kill, do not commit adultery, do not covet. And if there was no law, you know, these passions would look like very normal, you know, the partner and parcel of any human being. It would just be normal. They would think that everybody around them is doing it, you know, so it's normal for them to do it as well. But when the law came, they knew what they should be doing, what they shouldn't be doing. They knew what is right, what is wrong. Even though everybody around them is also doing, they can't justify their actions by saying that everyone is doing so, I'm also doing. But, you know, they had to see things in the light of the law. And when they looked at the law, the law said that all of these sinful passions were wrong. And what was the result of these sinful passions? These sinful passions, when it worked in them, in the members, in their body, you know, it only resulted in death. Okay, death here means, yes, you know, physical death also means spiritual death. It also means eternal death. And it also means that, you know, death is, it also means that, you know, when we're living in sinful passions, it's corrupting our bodies. It's bringing about sickness. It's bringing about depression, hopelessness. So all of these, so he's saying these sinful passions, you know, work in the members of our body and the only result is death. And it was six, he says, but now we have been delivered from the law. So he's just finished saying that, you know, when we are under the law, we are without Christ. You know, we were living bound to sinful passions that were highlighted by the law, which means that was brought forth or brought to light by the law. That what we're doing is wrong. What we are indulging is sinful passions. It's not what God wants us to live by. It's not the standard of God. And he's saying, but now, you know, but now we have been delivered from the law, but now means when we, you know, become believers, when we come into Christ, when we identify with Christ, he says, when we identify with Christ, you know, we have been delivered from the law. So, you know, and he's saying that, you know, where are we now? Yeah, he's saying now all of us, I'm writing to the church at Rome and all of you are believers. So all of you now are in the body of Christ. You are in Christ. You are, you know, identified with Christ. You are, you know, in spiritually, you are united with Christ. And he also says that you are, you know, you are in a positional truth. That means you have, you are in Christ and you are spiritually united with him. And that is where you are now. And he says, now, since we are in Christ, you know, we are living in the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. That means we are living according to the newness of the spirit. That means the Holy Spirit that is helping us to live according to God's standards and not the oldness of the letter. He's talking about the oldness of the letter. He's referring here to the Old Testament law. So he's contrasting two lives here. The life under the letter or the life under the oldness of the letter, which is talking about the law, which is referring to as the oldness of the letter. And the life that is in the newness of the spirit, he's saying the life under the life in the spirit, which is, you know, a life that is spiritually united to Christ or married to Christ or spiritually united in Christ or in Christ, which he refers to as the newness of the spirit. Okay, so the oldness of the letter is people who are not believers, who are living under the law. The newness of the spirit, he's talking about people who are living in the spirit, who are married to Christ, who are spiritually united to Christ, who are in Christ. So the main point in these first six verses of chapter seven, Paul is getting the Jewish believers to understand that, you know, we are not under the law anymore. We are free from the law because now we are in Christ. We are in the body of Christ. We are, you know, married to Christ, spiritually united with Christ. And hence we are serving God in the newness of the spirit. Just as a cross reference, I would like us to see, you know, Galatians chapter five, it was 18, where Paul is saying, you know, if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the law. He says, if you're led by the spirit, you are not under the law. Why aren't you not under the law when you're led by the spirit? It's because the Holy spirit is going to help us to keep the law and much more than the law. Okay. You know, we already saw that in the Old Testament law, you know, when you commit, you murder somebody, do the act of murdering, you know, we saw that in grace and law. Okay, when we studied in chapter six, we saw, you know, the Old Testament law says, if you commit the act of murder or commit the act of adultery, you have sinned. But Jesus takes, you know, grace to a higher level, to a higher standard. He said, even if you hate your brother, you know, or you're angry with your brother, you know, you have murdered your brother. It's equal to committing the act, you know, or if you even look lustfully at somebody else, you've already committed adultery in your heart, which is equal to sin. So, you know, here he's telling us, you know, that, you know, when we are led by the spirit, we're not under the law. Why? Because the Holy spirit is going to help us keep the law and much more than the law, much more than what, you know, God requires of us to live a holy life. And he's saying, you know, the Holy spirit in chapter five, he goes on to say that the Holy spirit helps us to bear the fruit of the spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. And he born rights against this, there is no law. Okay, against the fruit of the spirit, you know, all of the fruit of the spirit, the nine fruit of the spirit that I said, he listed all out and then he says, against this, there is no law. So the, which means the law cannot hold us against this. So when you walk in the spirit, you are not under the law. And hence, you know, Romans chapter seven was six, you know, we are in the newness of the spirit and not in the oldness of the letter of the law. So he's telling the Jewish believers, you don't have to live under the law anymore. And then he goes on in verses seven to verse 12, where he talks about the law and the struggle with sin. Okay, so can somebody please read verse seven to 12, please. Romans chapter seven was a seven to 12. Anyone, Romans chapter seven was seven to 12. What shall we say then? Three, read Asha. What shall we say then is the law sin. Certainly not. On the contrary, I will not have no sin except to the law, for I will not have known for witness unless the law had said, you should not covet, but sin, taking opportunity by the commandment produced in me, all manner of evil be there. For apart from the law, sin was there. I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment which was to bring life, I found to bring that person taking occasion by the commandment, visit me and die. It killed me. Therefore the law is holy and the commandment holy and just and good. Thank you. So in this verses seven to 12, Paul is addressing the whole aspect of the law. He has just told the Jewish believers that we're not under the law, they are not under the law and that they are free from the law, that they are in the body of Christ, they are married to another, which means that they are spiritually united in Christ and they are serving God in the newness of the spirit. So he's just established these truths in verses one to six and in verse seven he again uses the same familiar rhetorical question where he says, what shall we say then? Is the law sin? And it's an implicit answer, the answer is already there, certainly not. So the problem is not with the law. As he concludes in verse 12, he says the law is holy and the commandments are holy and just and good. So there's no problem with the law. The problem is not with the law, but the problem is because of the law, sin became very powerful, okay? Because of the law, sin became very powerful, which means, Paul is saying, I knew that there was something called sin and then I realized that I couldn't, you know, I knew there was something called sin when the law was there because the law showed me that I was doing something that is wrong, you know? Then and that's when I realized that there's something called sin that I was doing something that was wrong. And then I realized and Paul is saying, I realized that I couldn't be free from this thing. I couldn't be free from sin. So the law actually highlighted my weakness against sin, which means the law showed me that I was sinning and also Paul is saying that I realized that, you know, I couldn't stop sinning. I couldn't be free from this thing called a sin. And in this passage, you know, there's a very interesting point that Paul makes in verse nine. And Paul says, I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. Okay, now this is a very challenging verse for many to understand, you know, Paul is referring to himself, but you know, when was Paul in the state and how do we understand this, you know, this was correctly to the best of our understanding. Of course, the best person to ask would have been Apostle Paul, but since, you know, he's not there, you know, the Holy Spirit can help us. So actually here, before coming to know the law, you know, he was, Paul is saying that before he came to know the law, he was not under the law. That means he did not know what he had, that he did not know what he had to submit to. Okay, he was just, you know, people who do not have the law, they do not know what is right and wrong. I mean, only when the law is there, they can say, okay, for example, you know, there's a law in our land that, you know, or in our city that the person who's driving a two wheeler has to wear a helmet. And, you know, now they're making it a rule that the person who sits behind also has to wear a helmet. Yes, Manki. Thank you, Pastor. Yeah, based on that, if we go to an island and we reach the Gulfo and there are people, they seem to be, and there are not such the Gulfo laws, can they continue doing what we're doing if no one has stopped them to extend commandments of the law of God, because we've presented Christ to them and then we leave. They're not Christ, but they don't have the scripture to tell them to know. So can they continue, is it okay if they're continuing what they do, or the Holy Spirit will guide them? Thank you, Pastor. Yeah, thank you, Manki. I think we need to always interpret scripture in the light of our scripture. We've also seen in Romans, you know, in chapter, you know, I think except one or two Paul is saying that, you know, the Gentiles don't, the Jews have the law. They will be judged by the law, but the Gentiles have, you know, their conscience. And he also talks about, you know, how, you know, the creation, you know, reveals the invisible attributes of God and reveals his, the Godhead, the deity, and the power of God. So people are without excuse. They can't say that they don't know God. It's their conscience. And then also their conscience tells them what is right and wrong. But when, yeah, when they come to accepting the truth and knowing Jesus Christ as their personal savior, yes, it's the Holy Spirit that will guide them, will teach them, and also it's the word of God that, you know, that they have to read and will guide them and lead them. So for us also, you know, there are so many things that we can be doing, but when we read God's word, God's word, you know, corrects us, rebukes us, admonishes us and trains us in righteousness and holiness. Okay, so we also need God's word. We also need, you know, spiritual impartation, you know, we go to church, we hear sermons, and, you know, it's one way we are learning about how we need to live our lives, how we need to walk with God, and also reading God's word. And he has the Holy Spirit that reminds us about it, yes. Does that help, Mangi? Yes, but our conscience and, yeah, in the Holy Spirit, too. Yes, yeah. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, Mangi. So just to finish this bit, and then we can end class. So Paul is, you know, so this is a very challenging verse for many to understand, but, you know, before coming to know the law, you know, Paul was not under the law, which means he did not know what he had to submit to. So he was without the law in that sense, but when he was with, when he was without the law, he did not have an understanding of the law. That means he did not have an understanding of what is good or what is bad or what is right and what is wrong. He says that, you know, I was alive, and he says, you know, this is before the knowledge of the law. He was alive at that time, you know, alive to things, but he says he did not have an understanding of the law, and because he did not have the understanding of the law, you know, he did not know what is good or bad or what is right and wrong, okay? Now, you know, I'd just like to explain this by sharing something which is not definitive, but it is indicative. For example, you know, at the age of 12, you know, people come to an understanding of the commandments or the laws, okay? Of course, children from a very young age, they know what is right, they know what is wrong, but, you know, at the age of 12, they come to a place of accountability. They come to a place where they're able to see the bigger picture that there is a God, and, you know, doing right or wrong is not just about obeying dad or mom, or it's not just about, you know, doing something that is right to get a reward, to get a chocolate, and if they do something wrong, they don't get a reward, but they actually come to a place of understanding the commandment as having to do with God, okay, having to do with God. And, you know, we can't just say what is an exact age, but, you know, mostly people say the age varies, but mostly, you know, between the age of 12 and 13, you know, people come to a place of accountability, they come to a place of understanding, where they're able to see a bigger picture of, you know, doing things that are right or wrong, you know, in the context of God. And so here, you know, Paul is saying that, you know, he's actually in verse nine, he's indicating the transition, he says he was alive once without the law, but Paul is saying when he came to an understanding of the law, he knew he was accountable to the standard of the law, and he says, sin revived and I died, which means that, you know, sin, there was sin, there was no way for him to overcome that sin, a sin took a hold of him. And he says, I died means, you know, again, like, you know, he's mentioning that, you know, my body become, was given into corruption, you know, all of these evil desires took control of me, you know, and, you know, sin was causing bringing about, you know, sickness and bringing about depression and hopelessness. So he's saying that sin revived and I died, which means there was no way to overcome sin, a sin took a hold of him. And, you know, and sin was gradually bringing about death in his body, even before he could finally experience physical death or a person can experience eternal death. So here he's, you know, actually talking about a stage when he was, you know, he was under the law or he, even before he could understand the law, what is good, what is bad, what is right, what is wrong, he said, you know, this was before the knowledge of the law. And he says, you know, when he was alive at that point without the law, but when the law, when he came to an understanding of the law, you know, he knew he was accountable to the standard of the law. And he says, when he came to that sense of accountability to the law, he says, sin revived, which means that sin overtook him. He could not in any ways overcome sin. Sin took a hold of him and he says, I died. Okay, we'll stop here. We'll continue with verses eight following the next on Friday. Any questions, anyone hands? Yes, somebody has raised up their hand. Any questions? Okay, when we move to this. Yes, Louis. I'm a bit concerned in the context of our study. What was Paul doing right into the Jews when he was sent to the Gentiles? Because this is a very technical presentation. It's like he's making a case for God's, for the new covenant to a Jewish nation. But technically he was sent to the Gentiles because he read things like Ephesians and all the other were his core areas. You find out that he was making argument based on revelation, but now he's making a very technical argument, like if you read in Hebrews. So what was, it's a bit, because I feel like he's trying to justify his calling to the Jewish nation, even though he was not sent there. And I'm not saying what to go, it was not good. It was good, but the context of it just, if you are not a student of God, it will throw a lot of believers off. So maybe that's why we're having that back and forth as in what he meant here or what he didn't mean here. I don't know, just an open thought for maybe you can highlight or for our observation. Yes, a good observation, Louis, thank you. If you look at what we have been studying in the introduction in chapters one to chapter six, we see that Paul is writing both to the Jews and the Gentiles. He mentions both of them. As I just said, chapter one, chapter two is talking about the Jews are the Lord, the Gentiles have their conscience, and how they are going to be judged. So he's talking, writing to both the Jews and the Gentiles because the church at Rome comprises of both the Jews and the Gentiles. But here, he's specifically talking about the law because the Jews were the ones who had custodians of the law, they were appalling the cause of the law. They were holding onto the law. And if you look at even the other books that he, epistles, sorry, he writes, he's when he's writing to Timothy, first and second Timothy, when he's writing to Titus, he also writes, specifically telling the Jews about, he's talking about the Jewish fables, Jewish mythologies, circumcision rituals, the laws of eating, which they were bringing into the church, and they were making it mandatory for the Gentiles to follow that. And it was overwhelming the Gentile believers, they were confused whether they once as believers, whether they have to keep it or not, and the Jews were imposing it. And so when he's talking in that context of, people who are disturbing the church, bringing in all of these things and causing wrong doctrines, he's talking not about false teachers who are outside the church, but he's talking about false teachers inside the church, and he's specifically referring to the Jews who are bringing in Jewish mythologies, Jewish fables, all of these Old Testament stories which were not there, they're bringing it and telling the Gentiles and teaching it to the people and believers and talking about how they need to follow the circumcision ritual. And it was overburdening the believers. So Paul even writes to the churches at Ephesus, and he's writing to Paul 1st Timothy and 2nd Timothy, Titus, and he's writing to church at Colossae. So even in this context, wherever the Jews were, they were holding on to the law. And so he's first dealt with sin, that we are dead to sin, we're no longer, sin doesn't reign in our bodies because of our identification in Christ. And then he goes on to talk about the law which the Gentiles don't have the law. So he's basically talking to the Jews. And of course, the letter is going to be read to both the Jews and Gentiles because the Roman church comprises of Jews and Gentiles. So even when it's being read, the Gentiles are also going to be aware. Yes, we're dead to the law. So what these Jews are asking us to keep these laws of food and rituals and circumcision and doing this because the law requires this, the Old Testament Torah tells us this is not needed. But he's specifically mentioning Jewish believers there because he's writing to them, they have the law. And so he wants them to know that they're dead to the law. They don't kind of hold on to the law because the law is not the law. It's the law of the spirit which he brings about. He talks about the law of the spirit in chapter eight which he's talking about the holy spirit would help them to live free from sin. And he's saying the law cannot help you live free from sin because in chapter six also he talks about the law and grace and he talks about how the law is, just tells us what is right and wrong but the law does not empower us to follow the law. But he's saying in chapter six that grace not only keeps us free from sin but grace empowers us to not walk in sin. And hence here he's not trying to say specifically mention the position of Jews as an upper kind of a race or talking high about their position but just trying to correct them so that there is no kind of disorder or wrong preaching or the overburdening of the Gentiles to follow the law and they themselves not to overburden themselves because in Christ the law does not operate anymore. We're dead to the law. I hope I answered your question, Louie. Ma, I will accept your answer kindly but it's a very, I will accept your answer kindly so let me allow you to be there. No, no, you don't have to accept it. You don't have to accept it, Louie. You can still differ with me and we can still discuss. That's not, you don't have to accept it. What I mean is it can be discussed from different angles but for the clarity you made from the beginning of the class it's a standing consideration for me, Ma. Okay. Thank you, Louie. But yes, he's called to the Gentiles and he's always been ministering to the Gentiles and here also we see him ministering to the Gentiles because he's making life easier for them by speaking to the Jews and telling them, don't impose the law, the law is your debt to the law. Yes, thank you. That was a good observation. Yes, Ma, thank you. You had your hand up. Just to brother Louie's comment that this letter is writing to the church where we are both content Jews and Gentiles. So you have to speak to both, not only one group of people, but to Gentiles just straightforward and the Jews, you have to go back to the law so that they can understand what he's talking about. Yes, yes. Specifically this few verses in chapter seven he's talking to the Jews and then he comes back to generally addressing everybody. Yeah. Okay, thank you all so much for joining class. Anyone has any interesting comments, thoughts? It was quite engaging today, our class. Thank you. Anyone has anything to share? Yeah, of course one. Many people say, many preachers, actually preachers, the law is absolutely over. We don't have to keep it. However, from the class to there, can't understand that the Holy Spirit actually helps us to keep the law and we don't have to do it ourselves because if we try, we fail and then only by the Holy Spirit in us, it will guide us. So yeah, thank you. Thank you, Maggie. The other point, the Holy Spirit helping us keep the law is not out of compulsion. It's not out of, oh, I have to do it. Otherwise, I have to go and make, that's what the Old Testament people were doing. I have to keep the law if I sin, I have to go and make this sacrifice. That sacrifice received the wrath of God and even the sacrifices that they were making was not according to what God wanted them to do. They were just offering any animals and any sacrifices and that's why God says in Haggai and Malachi, you know, shut the door of the temple. He says, and I think Haggai or Malachi says, you know, your worship is like noise to my ears. And he says, you know, try offering these animals to your governor and would he take it? So you're bringing all sick animals in your animals to sacrifice. And so God was also seeing that, you know, the attitude of the people was, oh, we just keep the law for the sake of keeping it and you know, not out of love for God. And so the Holy Spirit is again going to help us to keep the law not out of, not because we have to, because we have to, you know, secure our eternal life but doing it out of love for God, doing it out of the right motive, right intention. That is also another reason. Okay, thank you, Mangi. Thank you all for joining class. Anyone has any other questions, comments? No, okay, we'll end class. Thank you all. I'll see you on Friday. Please read Romans chapter seven and come so we can go through it. And you know, if you have any questions, we can take it off. Okay, thank you, everyone. Bye-bye. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you, Sai.