 Ah, wow, okay. I'm not used to being in the really bright spotlights. I'm more of the kind of guy that stays in the basement on the computer all the time. But that's kind of why I want to talk about customer service this morning. But before we get started, I want to ask, who is already a freelance developer by themselves? There's a lot of people in the back. I love those seats, by the way. I think they should have the whole room full of those. Who works for an agency? Okay. And who wants to be a freelancer or go out on their own that's currently at another job? So I've been in that boat. I'm not, about five years ago, I worked for a private college in Salisbury, North Carolina. I was the network administrator. And I worked there, like I said, about ten years. And I decided I was really tired of dealing with interpersonal, you know, departmental politics. And I figured, hey, you know, what better Boston than to be my own. So I started looking around to see what I could do. And while I was at Catawba, I started doing some PHP development. And when I, so I was sort of PHP, you know, adequate, I guess. And I decided that, you know what, I'm tired of dealing with this. I'm just going to go at it on my own. I'm going to quit my job, I'm going to just do some freelance stuff, and I'm going to try to build up my own IT business. So I own two companies, my Geek Technologies, which is an IT support company for small businesses and nonprofits. But I also own Tiny Elk Studios, which is my WordPress development studio type company. I use Tiny Elk to build my Geek Technologies. And so the reason I wanted to talk about customer service is because I think that it's a very, it's almost a black art sometimes. But it's also what makes the difference between a good company and a company that doesn't, that may, you know, think they're good and, you know, or, and I apologize because this is the first time I've given this presentation, so I'm still trying to work through it. But a good company can grow and have great success purely based on their customer service. So they also have this, but it's just one part of a bigger picture. So I'm a father of two, I have a three-year-old named Emma and a five-month-old Ellie, and I'm a husband of one. So and I'm from Lexington, North Carolina, like Michael Matt said, which I've been asked this four times already this weekend, what is the population of Lexington? It is 18,000. I had to look it up on Wikipedia, so I don't know why that's important. But some previous talks that I've given at WordCamps, I gave a talk at Asheville last year on just having a WordPress-based business. You can find the slides and video there. I gave a talk, these talks are sort of related. I've done some other talks. These are more related to business-esque material. And then Beyond SEO at WordCamp Raleigh in 2013, in case you want to take a look at those. The current slides, you can actually download in a PDF format if you want, and follow along with me at that address. If anybody has any problems seeing that, I can talk it out. And so if we get off track, it's going to be rough. So all right, I'm sorry, what do you need? You need the slides? Okay, I'm sorry. It's HTTP colon slash slash mygeeknc.d.pr slash. Now this is randomly generated, so I don't know how it come up with top five, but that's kind of neat. But it's all caps, T-O-P-5. Are we good? Good? Yes? Okay. All right, so can somebody define customer service for me? Can you put it in a box? Troubleshooting. Troubleshooting? Okay. User experience. User experience, right? All of it. It's absolutely all of it. How many people have felt like this? And I really have to say that if you follow this guy on Flickr, he is awesome. His name is Scott McBride. He's from Dublin, Ireland. He has some amazing pictures. But this, when I worked in IT, well, I was still working IT. When I worked at the college and now, really, I could so relate to this. And I'm sure you can, too, just based, you know, from your user experience. But I feel like this every day. My number would never change. It would always be zero. So my definition, and y'all's as well, is what is customer service? Customer service is how you interact with, your customers interact with you. How you make your customers feel. How you handle their experience from beginning to end. And like I kind of said earlier, customer service really flows into other areas as well. It flows into marketing. It flows into, you know, brand building. It flows into training. I mean, it really encompasses a lot of different areas. So what I'm going to talk about today is my process, especially my IT business, because it's just the same as the web development business, because I used both to build the same business model, basically, business structure. So you have a start. You have the work that you're doing on the project. And then you have an end. All right, so basically on-boarding, the actual project, and then off-boarding. All right, so how many people have been to a restaurant and you walk in and they have a hostess will seat you, right? But there's no hostess. And all the waitresses are busy scurrying around, and nobody even acknowledges that you're there. Does anybody experience that? How does that make you feel? Frustrated? Like they don't want you there, maybe? I had the same experience at a mom-and-pop shop restaurant in Lexington, which I'm not going to name any names. They may be listening to me. But, you know, I walked in. It was that same experience. I had to ask the waitress, you know, there was a table that hadn't been cleaned off, and they were fairly busy. I'll give them that. And most of the time I'm fairly understanding, but it's just that not having that acknowledgement that you're there just really set wrong with me. So, and then a couple of days later, my wife and I went to Moe's. Anybody been to Moe's? Welcome to Moe's! Right? So, just that acknowledgement that they see you, they want to help you, that makes the world of a difference. So it's really the same way with new customers, new clients. You know, greet them. How are you doing? You know, can I get you something to drink if they come to your office? If you go to their office, be polite. You know, it's how you, your customer needs to make, your customer needs to feel that you want them, that you want to do business with them. And how you accomplish that, it really is based on your personality. You know, I try to just be, I try to, during the conversation, I just try to pick something out that they're talking about and kind of relate to that and just get them going on that topic. And that just kind of opens them up. So, but it also, it's, that initial greet, meet and greet, that first interaction, appearance is everything as well. Right? So, if you have an office, and a lot of freelancers don't, and especially in my business, we have an office, but I do a lot of, you know, on-site stuff. I go to them for initial projects. I go to them, you know, to do the work. My techs go to them to do the work. That, the presentation of yourself is very, very, very important. Now naturally, in the tech industry, it's very introverted, it's very long, and no offense, anybody has long hair and a beard, because I know, I love you guys. And, but it's, you know, basic stuff like showering, you know? I can't tell you how many times I've run into IT workers that like, dude, come on, really, I mean, seriously, you're not going to represent my company. I mean, that's all part of brand building. That's part of building the trust. I mean, if you can't be in the same room as somebody, and you don't feel that they're, you know, they're dressed professional and treating you, you know, like you want to be treated, or at least at the same level, you're not going to get that business, or they're not going to be your client very long, in any case. So it's all part of, you know, that initial meet and greet, you know, the first, there's a slogan or phrase that I cannot think of at the moment. But, so anyways, like I said, it's part of appearance. You know, appearance plays a big part in this as well. You know, I'm not the best looking guy, but I do try to shower, you know, three times a day. And smell nice. But you really have to, you know, act like your clients, pay your bills, and put food on your table, because they do. You know, they're running a lot of freelance developers and IT workers, you know, work with other small businesses. Right? The majority of my clients are small businesses. They're putting as much effort into it as I am. And you have to meet them on the same level. You can't be lower or, you know, way, way lower than them. So during the onboarding process, I like to do a couple of things. You know, we're all clean and we're all nice looking and we're talking, you know, we're interacting. So, you know, I have basically a questionnaire that I put them, that I'd go through with the client. It's not something that I've written down just because I've done it so many times. In my IT business, at least, I'll say, you know, how many computers do you have? How many users do you have? You know, we'll talk for a little bit of what kind of line of business application do you use? In the WordPress world, I'll say, you know, what are you trying to get out of your website? You know, what kind, what, who are your customers? Who do you try to, you know, gear your marketing to? And so I use this questionnaire and I'm writing it down to build, you know, goals for that project or, you know, where I need them to be, you know, where I want, where I have a standard for all my clients, whether it be WordPress or, you know, IT-wise. If you're running, you know, WordPress, 3-point, whatever, you're going to be upgraded to whatever the latest release is. If you're using an old out-of-date theme that's not been, you know, updated in years or you're not using a child theme and, you know, you've not updated since, you know, 2010, you're going to be updated. So I just can't, I make mental notes of this and I write it all out in a, in sort of a goal, sort of a goal for the project. And what this does is it gives us something to, it sets milestones for us and it gives the customer information on what we're actually going to be doing, right? So it's all part of a greater piece of the puzzle of communication, right, which I'm going to talk a lot about in just a second. But in this initial onboarding process in the interview, it's important, you know, to get the questionnaire filled out, it's important to make sure the client knows what your process is. Informing the client, being communicated with the client is the most important thing you're going to do. And it's also a good time to talk about, to talk about, well, to interview the client as well. So they're interviewing you and I'm sure they may, when I go into a job or, you know, have a request for bid, they're probably talking to other developers or other IT providers as well. But on that same token, I'm interviewing them as well to make sure that I'm a good fit for them. If they're very high strung and, you know, want everything done yesterday, that's not how I work. So, you know, I'll go through the process and at the end I'll just say, you know, based on your, you know, if it's a client I don't want to do business with, based on your needs, I don't think I'm a good fit for you. Here's somebody else that might be, something like that. So it's a good time to, you know, interview them as well. So communication, like I said, giving your client that, that your process, informing them of that process is really the first step in a very key part of the whole project is, you know, communication. Have you ever, has anybody ever sent a support ticket into anybody and not gotten a response back? So I'm going to use the example of my hotel. I had a lot of customer service experiences here in Asheville this weekend. So I made my reservation probably three weeks ago for Asheville and I never got a confirmation email and the lady on the phone was very nice and she took all my information down and like, that's really weird. I didn't get any, you know, confirmation, but whatever, maybe it'll come in a cup a day or two or whatever and maybe their IT system suck. So I forgot about it until about Thursday and I'm like, I should probably call and make sure I have a place to sleep. So I did and I called the phone. I called their main line and it said, I'm sorry, we're busy. Can you leave a voicemail and we'll call you back as soon as possible. I'm like, great. Does anybody love leaving voicemails for people? So I left the voicemail, right? They did not. I still have not got a call back from that. So the next morning I tried again, same thing. I finally about three o'clock I got a hold of somebody and confirmed my reservation but again, that's bad customer service. It makes me feel like either you're way too busy to really give me a good experience or you just don't care. I don't like that. When I did finally get a hold of somebody, I love the hotel, I probably will come back but even checking out this morning, I had to wait 10 minutes because there were so many other people and there was one person working and she was answering the phone and she was pregnant. I felt kind of bad for her but she was doing the best she could but they definitely need to reevaluate the customer service workflow. Yeah, so ignoring your customer is the absolute worst thing you can do. If you get an email from a customer or a client, even if it's just, okay, I see your request, I'll get to it, it makes them feel like they are on your radar and I think I've got that actually on another slide but don't ignore your customers. Again, they put food on your table. They pay your bills, remember? So still, like I said, as far as the onboarding process goes, that whole process, make sure you're on the same page, even recap your goals, recap the processes with your customer both verbally and written. Put it in a contract. Write out your contract. This is what we're giving you. This is what my support is going to be. This is what you're going to pay me. This is how you're going to pay me. The people who are freelancers right now, do y'all have contracts? Have they been reviewed by lawyers or did y'all write them yourselves? Okay, I did too, so don't feel bad. When you're writing out the contract, again, this is a great time to talk about payment and how you're going to get paid. It varies widely on how payment is handled. It could be at 50% up front, 50% at the completion, all up front, 50% at the start, 50% at the middle, whatever. I'm curious, how do y'all handle payment? 50-50? Beginning in if it's new? 50-50. Or in 60 days, payment is involved. So if they drag it up, then I'm still getting paid. Do you add on late fees? No, it's just 50-50, but by the 60th day, I'm getting paid. I got you. Again, this is part of the communication. Be communicative with your client. It makes them feel informed. I'm going to harp on communication in a very long time. Again, customer service. Communication. If they send you an email, just respond to them. Don't ignore them. Keep them in the loop. Ensure them that you haven't forgot about them. During your process, during your project, have little meetings with them. Have meetings with your clients. You're the presence. They're paying you to do work for them. They want to see you doing work. Even though we're sitting behind a computer 24-7, and most people don't think you actually do anything when you sit behind a computer, you have to show them that you're doing something. Just a simple email saying, I've completed this part of the project. Would you like to review it? Use a project management tool. I personally just use email in Excel. I'm not fancy. There's one that I've used before, and it starts with a T. Hell, use smoke signals if you have to. Just inform them of your progress. Do your best to respond to those emails if your customer does send them to you. Try to respond to them within 24 hours. It's really hard to do. I probably get 200 emails a day. Some of it's junk. I delete it. The projects that I am working on, and even old customers and new customers alike, I will respond within 24 hours. Normally, I do it in the same day, because, again, I want to be accessible for them. Again, just to say that it's... I acknowledge you exist. Did I mention communication? Talk to your clients? Be in front of them? Availability. One of the most annoying... Well, just like the hotel, right? They were not available to me, and that really did not rub me the right way. Be available to them. Within reason. You can text me at two o'clock in the morning, and that's okay. That's not okay. I have family. I have kids. You have a family. I understand this is important to you, but use reason. Put that in your contract. Say something along the lines, if you text me outside, or contact me outside of normal business hours, you're going to pay double-rate for that hour or whatever. Keep those times... The first time that you let a client do that to you, and you respond and say, you know, this is okay, they're going to continue to do it. So... What was the hand motions back there? Exactly. Yes. This is how you keep your sanity, by the way. If you're available 24-7, you're going to get burnt out so quickly. I did that. It's not fun. It's... It's challenging, though. I mean, because you want to help the client. I have a basic... I guess it's just built into me to help other people. And I want to be there for them. I want to help them. But I have to put constraints on it for my own sanity, or I will work 24-7. And that's just... It's not cool. I mean, you can't live life that way. Make sure you have a home life. I mean, do something other than sit in front of a computer all day. That will help keep you sane as well. So we've went through the onboarding process. We've went through the project. We're all communicated with the clients. Everybody's feeling good. They've paid us their 50% upfront. We're coming up to the end of the project. We're racing towards the finish line. I love that picture, by the way. I like old history stuff. And so we're getting to the off-boarding process. Cameron Campbell, I believe it is, is doing a presentation right after this on off-boarding and training the user. I really would recommend y'all stay for that because I don't really cover a lot of that. And I'm sure he'll do a great job. But have a... verify, go back to your questionnaire. Verify that their goals were met. Make sure that they agree and say, okay, this is exactly how I want it. You know, this is the project. So this part should not be difficult. They should not come to you at the off-boarding process and say, this is not right. You're going to have to redo it. And give them training on how to actually use their site. I've seen a lot, so many web developers, say, well, here's your site. Thank you for the payment. We'll see you. They're going to be like, what the fuck is this? Excuse me, sorry. You edit that out, I guess. But make sure you factor that into your price, too. Always factor in two hours worth of training on any web project that I do. Even in IT. The IT is a little different. We do a flat rate. This training is included in that. But make sure that they understand exactly how to do what they need to do with their site. If it's an e-commerce store, make sure that they know how to add products. Make sure they know how to add images. The correct way. If they just go take a picture, and they're trying to upload it into their e-commerce gallery, they're going to have a bad time, right? So show them how to optimize the pictures. Show them how to do that kind of stuff, and they won't call you later. The training is probably, of the off-boarding process, the training is the absolute key piece for your long-term support with that client. The more questions you answer there, while it's fresh in your head and fresh in their head, they're not going to call you. One of the things that I think was a bit of a stroke of brilliance on my partner is in our IT business, we do residential, some residential B2C sales and service, but the primary bread and butter is B2B. But with our customers, with people who just come in and go out, we do a follow-up calls with them one to two weeks after we do their service. No other company that I know of in IT does that, and I don't know of any... Does anybody do follow-up calls with their clients? This is a great way to get feedback of how your process went. It's a great way to get reviews, like if you're trying to get ranked on Google Local or whatever, point them to your Google review pages. Hey, Sally, how's the site going? I want to make sure everything was going well for you. Oh, great, it's going well. By the way, can you leave me a review on Google so I can grow my business? When this will also make the client... It makes them feel that you remembered them. This is still part of communication. It makes them feel that you value their business and that you actually care about how their website is doing. It's not just a one-time-and-you're-done kind of thing. So this will bring people back. And like I said, this is a good opportunity to also tweak your process if they had some constructive criticisms. This would be a good time to change that for your next client. So some things to write down. I just tried to jot some things down that I thought was important. The customer is not always right. Does anybody actually believe the customer is always right unless you're the customer? The customer is not always right, but it's not because they're ignorant. It's probably because they don't know what they want. They don't know what's available. In IT and web both, you're the expert, right? You know what's best for them. And this is part of the communication. What do you want? Well, this would be a good fit for you then. I have clients that come to me and say this is exactly what I want. Well, are you sure? Let's talk about and see exactly what it is you want to accomplish. And let's see if there's a better way. And if that's the best way, then, okay, we'll do it that way, but just give them options. In sales, they always tell you to have three options, low, middle, high. You don't always have to have low, middle, high, but it's just the practice of having options. People like options. They don't like to be forced into something. It's your job to inform them of that. You're the expert. Use contracts to set the expectations for your client. If it's in writing, go over the contract with them. They know where you're at. They know your process. And don't let scope... Does anybody know what scope creep is? It is horrible. Use the contract to set your scope as well. This is what we're going to do. This is the support we're going to give you. This is your project. Nothing outside of this. And if they say, if your client comes to you and says, I want to do this as well, then say, okay, well, that's fine, but it's outside of our project, I'm going to have to bill you for another project. And again, like I said earlier, it is your job to interview your customer as well during your initial meet and greet. Every customer is not a good fit for everybody. That's one of the reasons that capitalism, love it or hate it, works, is because people have options, right? People like options. You have options as well. When one client comes to you, and even if it's a large client that you think you're going to turn several hairs gray, if you don't feel like it's a good fit for you, don't do it. You're going to regret it later. I've had so many of those. And it took me a long time to actually figure that out that we're not a good fit for everybody. So I want to give some credits. That's the end of my presentation, but I want to give some credits to the images that I use. Again, Scott McBride is pretty awesome. Y'all need to definitely check his stuff out. And then this is me, Adam Sewell. You can find me at AdamSewell.me and on Twitter at AdamSewell. And this is where I'm going to take questions for the next 30 minutes. I'm going to do 30 minutes of presentation, 30 minutes of questions, because I love talking to you. What's that? Oh, yeah. Okay, 15 minutes. I thought longer than I thought I would. So does anybody want to talk about anything customer service-related or business-related? Wow, really? Oh, okay. Huh? Yeah. Honestly, this is going to be... The way that I handle it is based on emergency, right? If their site is down, I kind of treat that one a little easier, because usually I'll factor in some sort of, oh my God, you know, the world's falling down. But if it's just something, if it's email number one, I don't respond to it until the next day. If they call me or text me, I try not to give them my number, other than I have a business number that I give. I really try not to give my personal information out to my customers unless they're paying for it. We do have after-hour support that they can pay for that they can get an after-hours number and still not get my direct number, but it goes directly to my cell phone. So it's going to vary, really. I mean, just based on the criticalness of their need and then how they contact you. So if it's, like I said, if it's email, I would ignore it until the next day. If they call you and you just happen to pick up the phone and say, okay, well, you know, understand you're having an issue, but I don't feel that this is, well, I don't know if I would say it. I don't feel this is a critical issue, but I think I'm not in a good place right now to handle this. Can we look at this in the morning or tomorrow? And I'll be happy to get this resolved for you then. Something like that. Does that help? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You can always use, I'm in the bathroom. You probably don't want to hear this. I'll call you tomorrow. Yeah, there you go. That'll work, too. I'm three deep in, you know, six packs, so let's talk more. Any other questions? I generally, I try not to surprise my customers with new charges. IT is notorious for nickel and diming everything, right? Our IT contracts are fixed flat rate. They can budget for it every month. Now, these are long-term contracts. We work with these clients long-term, but even in the WordPress web development world, you can still factor that into your contract up front, and that's also part of you evaluating your client. I don't know if I just have a knack for figuring out if they're going to be more difficult than the others, and I'm generally not, you know, burnt by that. So if I feel that a client is going to be a problem and need a lot more hand-holding, then I'm going to charge more. But things come up, and also have a clause in my contract that says, you know, if it's under, how do I word it, basically that if this is outside of the scope or if this is, you know, an extra project, we're going to charge you that rate. So, I mean, they know that I'm going to, you know, there is the possibility, but I generally don't. I don't think I've actually ever charged a client for support like that, but it's really just getting a feel for the client and seeing how they are off the bat. I really don't have a good answer for you, I don't think. I think you get better at it as you go, though, of judging clients. So, yes, ma'am. Right. Sure. It really varies on the client. So like, my process is I'll go out and have a meet and greet with the client. And that's when I take my notes, that's when I do my questionnaire, that's when I kind of try and get a feel for the client. I'll bring that back. I'll do an estimate on that information and where I'll, you know, I don't give them the contract yet. I'll just do an estimate. This is what I think, you know, this is going to cost. And then I present that to them, either through email or, you know, for larger projects I actually type out a proposal. I've got a proposal template. It's like 13 pages long. But, you know, it's one of the, I use it really to make them feel that, you know, I took a lot of time to sit down and write this out. And, you know, I'm tailoring it to your business. So once we, if they accept the quote, you know, if it's a small job, they just accept it on fresh books. If it's a large quote, they'll, you know, I'll have them, you know, email me in or whatever the proposal signed. And then I'll have another meet and greet or another meeting with them that I go over the contract with them. So then I'd go in through full details on the contract and how, you know, how this all works. So, sure. You know, we, every project that we do, we sell support on going support. Every once in a while you get a client that says, you know, no, I don't want that. I can't need that. And so we make them opt out. And it's, it's two pages. It's a, I mean, basically I acknowledge that I am making this decision. I acknowledge that, you know, in the event that they call, you know, where we charge and I acknowledge. And so it's, it's very clear. But what they're getting in, and they can choose two hours, five hours, 10 hours a month. But we're catching their server. We're providing security patches. We're updating their blog. If they haven't built any time, it doesn't really roll over. But if we see that, and so essentially we're buying it like two hours a month is 24 hours of our time for the year. And so we're going to make sure that they get their 24 hours. So we may run an analysis or a report or something to give you some of that value. But everybody pays for support unless they opt out of it. And it's very clear. Yeah, that's a good idea. And now you can decide, you know, there will be a charge for this consultation. Usually with that, with our WordPress projects, well, what I'll do is, once we get through that initial project, we then, during that whole process, I talk them basically into letting us host their site. Because that's recurring revenue for us, which everybody knows recurring revenue is like it, right? So that keeps more food on your table. It keeps a long-term client, short-term client long-term. So we sell that as a separate package as well. But if they don't go with our hosting and our support, then that's basically where the contract ends. We give them the training. You have basically a month or two to find bugs in the program or bugs in the site and we'll fix those per the contract. But if you don't have the support, then you have to pay us after that initial time. But I've never thought about having them write out about the support. It used to be an option like an add-on and they would all say, no, we don't need that. Or we'll just let this be. And ran into these issues where, oh, you're charging me for this? Or wouldn't you charge me if we do it anyway? You're using it as an upsell. Yeah, it's just, you know, there's so many other services that people do that do the add-on. This also gives you a really convenient liability if you have it signed that they did not want this, then, hi, your site, you know, not our fault. Anybody else? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, well, what I do factor in is the training. I mean, when I, you know, do an estimate for a project, the initial meet and greet I really don't charge for because I'm still getting in front of new people that I probably wouldn't have gotten in front of anyway, so it's possible that that initial meet and greet may lead to other work, right? But from the time I do the estimate until the time that, you know, I off-board them, I charge for that whole time. But I factor it in so that it's not, you know, I don't line item it, it's just a cost. Now, if it's, you know, there's an additional support package or hosting, I do line item that. But the project itself, I do not line item that. I'm going to spend this many hours, I'm going to spend this many hours, I'm going to spend this many hours. Yes, ma'am? Right. Yeah. Do you put any kind of limitation on that, or is it just perpetual? Right. Right. I got you. The way that I handle support and hosting, now, being in IT, we have the privilege of having our own data center and co-located data center space, so that's not something I, you know, price out, so my marginal on that is a lot higher than others would be. So, the hosting for me and the support, I really don't have a hard and fast set rule on what I charge. I try to base it on the amount of traffic they get. So, if it's a very small site, now I will say my minimum is $45 a month. But, you know, if they're a very high traffic site, they're probably going to have more problems, so that number goes up. And I just, I try to look at their previous stats, you know, analytics, Google analytics, whatever to see what their, how they fluctuate, when their busy times are, and always base my price off their busiest time. Not off the average, because when they have, if they have, you know, Christmas, you know, they sell at a site one time that was ugly Christmas sweaters. And they did a hell of a business, I have to say. But their main, their busiest time of the year was Christmas season. And so, you know, you know, in June, you know, when they had like 10 people hit the site, I can't really, you know, that's, I would make nothing if I based it off of that. So, it's really, again, just filling for the client. Have, you know, I would say the minimum, definitely the, you know, $45 a month for support and for hosting. Well, I don't put any limitations on it, but it probably would be a good idea to put limitations on it. The reason I don't put limitations on it is because I try to make sure they are comfortable with everything up front, and so that there's not going to be any support later on. But they have that option. They know they can contact me and you know, whatever it's going to take, I will fix that, I will fix it later. So, it's I'm just, I'm really lax and loose with my with my support contracts because I don't like details. I mean, I like details, but I don't like my client feeling like when you have too many rules, it's going to get confusing and they're going to be put off by it. I want to be available to them. I want them to come to me with any issues, not try to go to another developer unless they, you know, that sort of thing. So, I try to be as open with it as possible and be flexible because, you know, they, we have to be flexible sometimes. So, well, does anybody have any feedback for me? Was it bad? Was it informative? Was it good? Was it horrible? Well, good. I'm glad you all enjoyed it and thank you all for having WordCamp Asheville again and letting me speak. So,