 at 5 p.m., so we're called to order and just remember this is a site visit so we can't take any testimony which is here to look we can talk about it we can't like make decisions or take official testimony for the record right we can talk as we're looking so you know this is on okay was there a car coming you said all right well let's get started I thought Alfred was joining us but I don't see him now this doesn't have any there's no official recognition of this is where chafe enforced is am I correct there's no sign that anybody's ever put up okay because it says no trespassing or so it says no trespassing right so it's just the left side of the road so so why does it this is the town's right of way hey guys everybody's talking all at once so if we're gonna be on the same page with where we are and what we're looking at it'd be good to do it together oh this is the town right of way this this road is a town class four class four road which is somewhere in here is the property line so I think Neil said that the town forest is on the left side of this road oh it says no hunting so whose property is on the right side do we know I'm not sure who does on that it's one of the adjacent property owners I think that it might be it might be Jay Lecaire I know he owns property up here and he said his property boarded mine on the top edge okay are you on this road other end oh the other end of peeking okay all right here hi how are you and you are watch it Rick okay so what I understand is the town forest Neil said starts down there at the corner kind of at the bumper of John's car the town this is a class four road I don't know what the right and the town forest is on the left and the property on the right is owned by I don't know if Jay Lecaire I know that he owns property here somewhere a woman on this land here you go down further and his is on the right and comes back out up there okay so are these the mark I want to use other marks that Alfred put up for parking okay so do we think oh this must be the yeah so Jerome these are the four these are look like the stakes that Alfred put in for a parking area which doesn't so the town forest is here yeah yeah right yeah I don't know I was curious about it my guess is it some kind of tax for because it just shows up on the town record that's a long time ago and they didn't just become a they back in the age they took wood off it for poor people that had no firewood yeah because I pulled some of the wood out for them and they blocked it up put it in the old town shed where the where the town hall you know not town office yeah they used to be an old garage right the town office they filled that up with a mess of wood and gave it out to people that needed wood oh here comes Alfred they might have gotten it from tax sale years ago but they've owned it so I think this is where you mark for the parking spots and this is enough this is enough area for what do we say six parking areas it takes 54 feet 54 feet per air per foot wide they want parking area nine foot so if you're backing in here 54 feet okay so for each for each witness so for each vehicle it would be nine feet six in a row fit yeah yeah and that's what that is okay given the fact that six cars wasn't exactly yeah we've kind of term it yeah right I'm on George Road so you have to go all the way through here hit peeking brook go up a little bit and take a lap okay hi can I just get your name for the record Tyler Clark now are you a property owner yeah right here 602 Chapin Road okay so we're just looking at the parking area this is where the road commissioner yep blocked it off marked it off all right does anybody want to walk a little further see I think just leave it I don't know we'd have to talk about that again okay now these are posted no trespassing on so must be just that side right but but the hope would be I think maybe I'm just thinking myself but the most important people in oh because there's all kinds of sticks and everything tree about to tip over well I don't know how far we really need to go I don't know how far we need really need to go the whole idea was to see about a parking area yeah it's beautiful it's really beautiful and John noticed that it must be having been mowed so who would so would somebody travel on this to get to which road you can't take a regular vehicle because you couldn't grow that good oh okay so you but somebody with an ATV or something could right well and there's there's a spot as you're going down the hill on the right hand side the bank is all eroded and it's all washed out get down a little further and there's no stone culvert there and it's no culvert washed out okay so it's not like you're gonna take a so it's not like you're gonna be able to take ATVs all the way through right because of the washed out culvert and stuff I mean they might try it I'm sure you can get through with an ATV or a dirt bike okay so I don't think anybody is I think it just doesn't grow very good there's not much fertility and there's lots of leaves looks like it's all my roads that are in the woods they look like that maybe Jay Jay owns land down here is like his land comes out right down here is that Jay love care look here yeah is this his land over here too you know yeah I don't know if he bought this land that the people on I told you you can see his marker right here on the right somewhere is and he owns all the way down to me stale's land I believe on the right hand side okay but not just far down yeah Larry are there any okay so I got it right yeah I got right score for me I got a name of a tree right the ash tree with they have that they have that um ash borer yeah yeah all right let's head back Tom do you know how many acres the town you know how many acres the town owns maybe 20 20 maybe 20.5 or something like that I know it's 20 at least one find that out for you we could ask yeah we can ask off of that and I guess the question I have too is would it just be driving at your own risk or are we going to I mean that's not a decision that we can make today but I just wonder are we gonna have parking area mode or you just drive in and cameras have been stolen so I guess my question is and I'm waiting for Alfred the neighbors worried about runoff I don't I mean it's already the Alfred so the neighbors mentioned something about being concerned about runoff is that would we be looking at just leaving this like this mowing it what I mean hi nice to see you okay Kelly that what was your name Kyle boost and what was your name so we just we're looking at this is the road commissioner marked off where you can see these stakes and we just walked a little further down beautiful what would this just be mowed I mean we grade it and well I guess we'd have to see what the conservation commission is thinking and like I said this is a site visit so we just have to be careful what we talk about so I don't we'd have to obviously talk about this at a meeting at another time right but I don't know about plowing it in the winter I just had a little part of this I should kneel correct me if I get this wrong but at the last conservation commission meeting we had a long discussion about this though it as it resolved itself I think we actually agreed that we didn't want to recommend pursuing the winter access right that okay require all of that work and problems they just start small the smallest possible road access you know a modest little welds built a parking area here that you know protects from runoff and all and and then just and just just see I mean that if it so if it wasn't winter access that would mean it would be graded and so that it's level and mode and there's no intention to well I think that you know there's going to be times in the spring of the year yeah well we can always I mean the state the state says you can't go on trails certain times in the year when it's all muddy and all that right true true yeah all right so I think unless there's any more questions we can head back out so what do we do with our little one-lane road all the way out here you have to turn around and this parking area would have to be here okay how about passing by when you meet cars on a road is a very narrow past three road I mean when we meet neighbors one of us has to pull right and when when all this whole housing development was going in that was a point that I brought up and Margaret Bowen was on the review board back then and mr. Scribner that put all those houses in brought them twenty five hundred dollars if my memory serves me correctly the town twenty five hundred dollars to upgrade the road I said twenty five hundred dollars isn't gonna buy a culvert and a loaded gravel no it's actually not well so I was at the hearing and what Don Singleton did the road commissioner then was he by agreement they got a written agreement that the developer would pay for the upgrade cost because Don the commissioner did not trust that the developer whatever reason was gonna bring it up the proper standards to build the road to our specs and he didn't want the back and forth because he opposed this development so not a compromise so the compromise was that the town would do the upgrading and then build the developer and I think they held back the permits to the development until that bill was paid right and then it's in everybody's so this was this road with all that was decided before the development went in and the folks who bought into the development bought into it knowing that there will be that way it wasn't a surprise didn't happen after it was done yeah I'm not talking about from where it's taking road and down through there I'm talking all the way back yeah just a class three itself is pretty narrow I know because Blackberry had to develop a whole thing yeah I think it was seven thousand dollars yeah we're nine thousand it's still weren't a truck a little gravel no it was not no he didn't want to do anything yeah how much material there were some other issues he wasn't paying taxes on the lots he didn't sell there was all sorts of stuff he's a piece of work took his money all right you ready to head back? oh yeah oh yeah Mark? I think that regardless of what we do here if it's going to be a quiet parking area we're gonna have to cut some of these trees to to widen that at least from here to Blackberry Ridge a little bit because it's just not you're not going to get a car in there in and out of there different times of the year so you would work with the tree warden who happens to be here and you'll make her to mark the trees and you know is that what you aren't the orange flags on this side are kind of like where you imagined yeah sure well and I think that's to be determined about the winter use you know I mean Larry remembers and I I do remember that at discussion now I think you know at least some of the brushy the smaller stuff would have to be cleared out just so everybody's up to this point Alfred well from here out for the yeah yeah because I saw a couple more orange are those ones you put on? yeah okay you're gonna die anyway I'm just wondering like what the conservation commission needs if that would you know that current area is that you know sufficient for a couple cars I mean that's what hunters do right now so you know instead of developing a new area are you thinking to put it down now yeah you know we're kind of widings and then the class four road continues down but there's like an opening right there that you're talking about on this road yeah just down another 100 yards or so we want to look at that and it wouldn't really be like needed to be developed but if there's truly just going to be a few people using it here and there that's what hunters do right now I don't know that we want to put a parking area that far in well why don't we check it out and make a decision based on what we see developing it would just be kind of using that natural and given that it's a low enough population of people coming here you know well why don't we just walk if it's a hundred yards why don't we just watch more yeah I can I can point out where it is yeah and this is we're going to see this the property line it's so near there's another road down here is that what you said and this goes down to the old class four road that we're on there on the right yeah there's an opening on the left that if you were going to come down there's a structure so it's just easy to come around but would we yeah but would we want people driving further down um that's my question yeah why would why why would we want people to drive further down while we're here figured out show is this it right here this is this is one yep and then there's one further down but but I guess my question is that means that people have to drive further down this road I mean they can currently drive down this road right now so it's just a matter of awareness of it there's a little bit of an issue more of an issue with water runoff down this steeper slope yeah too that because we if you it's not huge one but this is flatter well it's flatter up hills there hills coming down with dumping water into this the parking area and this is flatter it doesn't have that problem well this is going to drain into this you're going to end up draining down into this road that's more what I'd be worried about well it's probably what's the advantage to here I don't know I think the other site would be close to the road would be probably better personally that would be more level yeah it is but I think we're doing to this point about the runoff I think it's important that you see it that would cut that's what we are okay so that's all we're doing that's why this is that's why this is called a site visit okay right so okay let's go all right thank you for sure yeah it's a good idea yeah this figured while you're here yep no that's good rick did you take a picture of that yeah that's uh yeah that's pylus beautiful yeah he's been working on that so he's right down there okay yeah that's right so that's been his kind of weekend project no she doesn't have any separation anxiety like my dogs do but you go to the current count the other town force will you always church no one goes bike riders go oh really I'm didn't steal it by the way I don't know if we've met I think yeah I think I yeah okay I remember you yes but I couldn't remember your name oh yeah yeah I've never been back no well this is why it's nice to do it now because because it's summer it was just hot and buggy yeah no it's well they're everywhere this is a long one yeah so there's one tree that works here I thought I saw a couple more little orange shapes okay now do you see a lot of wildlife like bear and moose do you very cool well we're not fragmenting it fragmenting it would mean dividing it up from the car for dry for walking but you knew this was here with the house right yeah yeah what is spectacular about it well it's it's a beautiful hardwood forest mostly uh-huh but with areas where in season it's just a sea of ferns and things uh-huh um and in a spectacular steep ridge is more or less the west boundary okay yeah um and so it's in you know and it's like if you haven't been in the woods before and you like the woods you know you're gonna get excited when you see it for the first time okay I gotta I gotta walk the whole thing yeah for sure by the way my friend Rob went and hiked by himself the town forest trails yesterday you know everything he said was so well signed he didn't have any trouble so I wanted him to be kind of go out by himself without me to just see you know as a guinea pig to see if he could figure it out and he said it was easy peasy you know the only thing he suggested was you know having more signage at the end of the north spur which we don't know about just to make sure because he he could you know without the signs adequate signage he couldn't tell where it kind of ended he walked out there or where he shouldn't have yeah well I mean I would think that's a big no trespassing sign right there but the time we're done this weekend it'll be well signed um now Tyler Clark you're here right look at the old town which one on the on what side of the road so he's the one with the granite male clothes right there is 602 Chapin and which one is he he's here right yeah he's he must be with the straggler yeah yeah he's a tall guy wearing a hat and Dale Laferrier he doesn't look here he lives on George Road he's George and George Road does this so this road if you took it all the way this will go to Peek and Brook to Peek and Brook pretty close to the George road okay other side is just like a paved turn around yeah that's already established okay and Denise his land does come up yeah he lives on George Road but he owns a lot of the land if you go down on that area now who's this we're talking about now I mean I've only been here yeah yeah well over here now oh yeah I was back in there hey Jimmy yeah and I got a little here we are right here this is the okay this is George Road that comes through here yeah that might be it I think it is somewhere in between those two yeah because that's there the guy that owns property and a little like cabin right there and and that's on this abutting side to the town forest right so he's kind of got back until it goes to Doug Lilly's and he's the back uh back perimeter of the town forest oh gotcha where they where the hill slopes up till like yes yeah yeah Doug's is on the top and he's the farmer up on Lightning Ridge Road yeah okay right this is alternative site three oops sorry well and of course you can't see it yeah now I wish I had one well I'm famous all right this is not bad yeah do you and it's nice and flat yeah it sounds to me yeah but what do I know use the one right I was getting acclimated to kind of who lives where and well that's good I'm sorry to interrupt you yeah no that's fine Alfred would people be able to like drive in park and then that you know so you so it could you could have parking on that side parking on that side and still have room enough in the middle for people to back out right that makes sense right yeah this is a better site pretty easy yeah okay I would say site three that was the conservation solutions but right oh that that was the conservation commission's choice okay you you agree that this could be a better site what does Neil think in the country Neil Neil and Larry what do you think the conservation commission I guess I thought Alfred had designated the parking area but he you guys designated the parking area down there what about a parking area here yeah easier wider sure it's less trees the thing and yeah I don't I think we probably just kind of walked in and said oh that seems like their place yeah okay yeah well we took a picture of it and where did he go I don't know he held up a sign to show that this would be like alternate site three because we had this other site that the neighbors showed us and then the original site so this is site three yeah Kyle boo Kyle boo Kyle boo is that brother's milk is it so I got it spelled wrong it's most people are just gonna walk along I don't know the question that's pretty why it's beautiful again he's gonna be on these rail rides and you know that you've ever been out there that's right all right we're ready to head back no it'll cut it do you think John J's place and then the next one out yeah I think it's better not the neighbors might have more of a concern they wanted to wait for you down yeah he's on the trails you know and you can see why this makes more sense for our people that's why I said you know way way down there people gonna have to drive all the way down back and forth you know when the tow truck has to come in to pull them out this is closer right all right let's head back so we can get this done you like this site uh I think it's I think it's um yeah I certainly looks to be more level right the the slope is a problem I mean there's gonna be drainage you can drain it that way if well no you're it's not gonna you'd have to cut a huge amount out of here I'm not saying you don't do it I just tell you what you're gonna get a natural tracking water that way I mean from this road and from water runs downhill that's it dies it's guys gonna go this is a way you Tyler you're not gonna I frankly I don't think you're gonna find a place to run get water around the top that's what water does um minimal capture mostly water in the back how do you know when people aren't saying you know writing me emails saying God but if only I could have a parking area I come down here I frankly don't think anyone's gonna be here I think it's gonna I think it ran to two or three cars oh really yeah we used to come in here until the I mean people gotta find it first I mean trickering bog and parking lots empty all the time unless it's a special event right all the time that's very well and that's a that's a fancy place that's a very well known as a destination right yeah right really yeah and it's promoted by a nature conservancy yeah observation yeah and it's empty all the time and that's it's on lightning grid roads yeah well word passes and that's all all right you guys ready to head back so we can adjourn we're gonna close the meeting yeah we're gonna you're ready to head back so we can adjourn come on come on cheddar I don't know yet we'll post it on the agenda I don't know I think it's probably just all right there's nothing else what time is it please remember of the day I'm select for you all right are you I move we adjourned okay we can do it just yeah okay all those in favor say hi hi okay we're adjourned thank you everyone beautiful day for a walk thank you