 Welcome to Healthy Planet, the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet on the ThinkTrak Livestream Network series. I'm your host, Dr. Grace O'Neill. Joining me today is Travis Bacon, owner of Hustle Desk. Welcome, Travis. Hey, how's it going? It's great to be on your show. Thank you. So tell us a little bit about Hustle Desk. So Hustle Desk is a company I started a few weeks ago actually. So it used to be under a different name and a different owner. It used to be two companies under one entity. One was like the coconut harvesting side, the tree trimming part, and the other part was the market. So I purchased the market side, and then I changed the name Hustle Desk. But I've been doing the farmers markets, these particular farmers markets for about nine months now. But in general, I've been cutting coconuts since early 2015. So tell us about how you got interested in coconuts specifically. So I've been on this side of my whole life. I'm from Hoagla, North Shore area, and I've just been surrounded by coconuts my whole life. Yet up until I was 22 or 23, I never actually had a real coconut. My association with coconut was the canned coconut water or the fake shavings of a coconut, the artificially flavored stuff. So I tried that, I never really liked it. And then one day I was walking around Haleva, and I saw one of my friends from high school, he was running a coconut stand. He was like husking it with a big spike and serving customers. And I just stopped by just to like, you know, say what's up to him. And then it was right then and there that he gave me a coconut to try. And it was unlike anything I've ever had, like the actual canned coconut or the artificial flavors just, it couldn't compare. And it was at that moment, I, you know, it was kind of life changing for me because it led to the trajectory that led to me owning this business and doing it for a little over eight years now. That's great. I was wondering like with the coconuts that you sell, I mean, obviously they're fresh, but maybe people don't know the difference between getting a canned coconut drink versus like a bottle coconut drink. I mean, I see some of them. There's that one harmless harvest and they're pink. Like why are those pink versus yours that are fresh coconuts, they're not pink? Um, to be honest, I'm not 100% sure. I actually did have this conversation with somebody who knew a little bit more in depth about why they were turning pink. I think part of it has to do with like the exposure to oxygen or at least the bottling process. I think it may also have to do with the geology, like where the coconuts are from. In my experience, like I've only dealt with coconuts from Wabu and some, sometimes a big island, but in general just Hawaiian coconuts. And out of all the coconuts I've ever hustled in my life, there has been three times where I've encountered this pink coloration and the water, like when I bottled it or like, you know, put it over into a cup, a cup was transparent and I could see like a little tinge of pink, but it was a lot more subtle compared to the harmless harvest, more saturated pink. Yeah, I always kind of wonder, they say it's not a big deal, but I just think it's kind of, it's weird that, you know, when you get a coconut, you know, coconut water from an actual coconut, it's never that color. So I feel a little bit suspicious, you know. Yeah, yeah, I share that sentiment as well. And that's not to knock the harmless harvest brand either, but some coconut water I feel like even the ones without the no sugar added, it's a little like overly sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm wondering like with the coconuts, you know, there's different ages like to the coconut, you know, once it's picked from the tree and everything. So if you wanted to get, I know if you wanted to get more water and less meat, you go for a certain age. And then if you want to get more meat and like, so what's the difference? And is one, is it older coconuts reader or younger coconut? Do you have any tips for people? Yeah, so it's, it's not very linear. I like to compare coconuts to people as far as like the way they age. So you have like the, you know, a lot of people thinking like new or like old coconut or like young coconut. To me, there's like different stages. So when a coconut first grows on the tree, it starts off with all water and no meat. And right when it's starting to fruit, it'll be like a very small coconut. Of course, it eventually grows bigger. But you know, the growing process for all coconuts, you know, they take all kinds of shapes and sizes, but there is a certain threshold where once it is like a certain size, it's like not quite but sure enough to gain the meat. But when it is, it gains the meat and it starts off with a jelly like consistency. And a lot of people call this the spoon meat or because, you know, you can pretty much take a spoon to it go against like the edge of it and much eat it from there. And then as it ages, the meat becomes a little bit more firm. After the jelly, like it's still pretty soft, still soft enough to use a spoon on, but then eventually becomes chewier and chewier. And I like to classify those stages as like the baby coconuts and then the teenage coconuts. And then you have like what's basically like a medium. So during these stages, with the exception of the baby phase when it doesn't have any meat, the sweetness or the level, the amount of sugar or levels of sweetness, however you wish to call it, it kind of goes, it kind of peaks. And then right at the medium stage, it stays that level of sweetness. And it's at the medium stage that something interesting begins to happen. It's not like a guaranteed thing. It's kind of a dice roll. But some coconuts gain like a carbonation. And some people call this like the champagne coconut, the verdict called like something akin to sprite. And it has like that little natural carbonation. It's usually at that stage when it's like a medium where the meat is not neither soft nor hard. But it still has that sweetness to it. And then after that is when the meat starts to get thicker and thicker. And the water, it loses, I don't know if it actually loses electrolyte content or it's converted into antioxidants. But it does gain like more antioxidants. And this may not be the correct term. But when it has a certain stage of maturity, it kind of goes through something like fermentation. It's still, you can still drink it. It just doesn't have that sweetness that coconut water is, you know, renowned for. Then at the most mature stages, we have coconuts that we call shakers. And we call them that because all the other stages, previous stages of coconuts, they're filled to the brim with water. Like there's, you know, pressure, like highly pressurized. Like when I like go through the machete, sometimes like, there'll be like a jet stream of coconut water that launches just because of the pure pressure. And we call the older coconuts, we call them shakers because they don't have this. You know, you could take it to your ear and shake it and you can hear the water rustle around. Those are the coconuts that I like to use for selling the meat or harvesting the meat out of it. Because there's a lot of it. So coconuts have like this balancing act. The coconuts that don't have a lot of meat will have a lot of water. The coconuts that don't have a lot of water will have a lot of meat. Yeah. So I'm wondering once the coconut turns to like a brown almost wooden texture, is it basically over for the coconut in terms of meat and water? You'd be surprised. So the older coconuts, once it's off the tree, it doesn't gain any more maturity. So depending on like when you harvest the coconut, the younger coconuts have a shorter shelf life. So in general, I tell people like the coconuts I sell, like they probably have a shelf life from anywhere ranging between like four days to two weeks. And then the older coconuts, the ones you see at the supermarket, whether they're hust or not, those actually stay on the shelves for months and months. When I was living in Washington temporarily, I worked at a grocery store and we had coconuts on the shelves. And I happen to be working the produce section. So I'd be in charge of quality control and what not. And since I already had previous experience with coconuts, I would open these ones with a hammer. They're not the best kinds of coconuts for the water, but they do have the longest shelf life. Hence why they can ship internationally. Mostly mostly from like Thailand, Vietnam, the Philippines. It's really, you can't really do that with the young coconut water. So these coconuts we have in Hawaii, where are they originally from? Are they from the South Pacific originally? Do you have any idea? Um, as far as the origin? Yeah, like the trees that I go, I'm assuming the Polynesians brought them from where they were from and they were made up there, but I don't know if they're native here. I mean, I don't know. I feel like they've kind of always been around in any tropical environment because that's where they thrive the most, like in areas where it's basically airy or dry. It's nearly impossible to grow a coconut tree. So I think it requires like some kind of moisture that both in the soil and in the air. I know some cultures have called coconut, coconut water as the sky water since it grows up in tall trees. But then you also do have like the Samoan coconuts or the Samoan coconut trees where it's a short tree and you can pretty much just like stand there and grab them yourself. They're pretty much at eye level. And how do you know like when you're looking at a tree, how do you know the coconut is ready to be grabbed? It's a certain size you said? Yeah, size is a factor, but only up to a certain point. It's hard to describe in words, but there are elements of its shape that can give you an indicator of how ripe or what level its maturity is at. So on one side where the coconut grows, you have the branch and then the crown where the coconut kind of hangs. And then on the opposite side, you have what I call the three crowns, basically like the pointed edges. And the more pronounced these edges are, generally the more mature the coconut is. So the older coconuts will have like a more pronounced, I guess, pointed edges. Those are the same ones that when I cut, I start by cutting those three and then I cut around it. The crown where it grows is where I cut the flat base so that way it can stand on a table. There's the whole time at the farmer's market. That machete right there is called a kukri and right now I'm cutting the flat base and I moved on to cutting the the three prongs and all around it. That's the part where I open it up and basically I rinse and repeat this process anywhere between 150 to 200 times per market. And this is how I make it accessible to the customer. That's great. And what farmer's markets are you at so people will know? We are at Kakaako with the food trucks at the Hakuone Harbor from 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. every Saturday and then Kailua right across from Castle Hospital, same time 8 a.m. to 12 p.m. So right now it's every Saturday or Sunday. I'm eventually going to do more markets and try to cover more of the island on more days but for now those are the days where we are present. Great. Can you show us some more pictures Michael that he sent us? So this is your stand at the farmer's market with the coconuts, correct? See. And go on. This is during Christmas you said, yeah. So this is around Christmas time. We try our best to do like little decorations for seasonal. This is around Christmas time and the great thing about coconuts is that they're year-round so it's not seasonal like mangoes. So do you take the coconut waste back with you like if someone finishes the water and they don't want the meat? Okay. So when they bring back their coconut after they're done drinking it we crack it open for them. I cut it in half and then we have specialized tools to scoop the meat out but if it's something like a spoon made sometimes I'll even like create a spoon from the coconut husk and serve it to them like that. And yeah we try to eliminate waste. We try to make use of every part of the coconut even the husk or the shell that otherwise people would otherwise think is useless. Can you explain to us what this picture is, the last picture they showed us with the truck where you dumped off the waste? So this is one of the farms I took it to. They basically asked that I just like pile it up and we eventually like there's much more than that we eventually like spray it out across the tarp. What this farm is going to do with it is create biochar which is a I suppose a form of charcoal and I don't know all the ins and outs and all the science behind it but in layman's terms the way it was described is that it's like a form of charcoal created from the coconut shell the part between the coconut husk and the coconut meat and the husk is very flammable once it's dried up so that acts as a fire starter and what they do is they're going to contain all the refuse and eventually the fire is going to consolidate all the matter particularly from the coconut shell into what is called biochar. And you have another farm too that you give some of the locus to as well correct? Yes yes so there's another farm I take it to and they I give it to somebody who grows vanilla and this is a little different it's actually unlike anything I've I've ever seen but he has a vanilla greenhouse and he uh basically like you know potted plants and the the vanilla roots grow around um wire and other other parts of the setup in order to make it most efficient what he does with the coconut husk is he puts it around on the bottom of the potted of the plastic bins and this allows the roots to grow around it or inside the coconut husk so the coconut husk acts as a micro fine because it blocks out the sunlight and absorbs the humidity and it actually gives um the vanilla plant um more life it provides by blocking off some of the elements that would otherwise be very difficult to block out even in a greenhouse setting. That's great I mean how about if somebody I mean I'm assuming you have plenty of coconut waste so if somebody wanted to keep their own husk waste they could make cocoa core is that track like would you just absolutely absolutely some of it it also has um you can also use it for like fertilizer I've heard of people like letting it dry out I think letting it dry out and lose the moisture is pretty key um for whatever your purposes are with it I've heard of them letting it dry out and running it through a wood shipper to make get like the strands and eventually like something close to like a powder or like sawdust and then yeah yeah apparently that's like a very nutritious um nutritious for the soil uh fertilizer yeah I know I've I've seen I don't know I've saw videos online where somebody took all the cocoa um you know the the little shreds like the hairs and they let it dry out they put it in like a blender or food processor and then they just chop into little pieces and it becomes cocoa core um so I thought that was pretty cool because you could grow a lot of things from cocoa it's a great seed starter so it's using like the whole part of the coconut you know um do you make coconut bowls I know you said you make a spoon from the coconut you also do the bowls because I know there's some merchants that are selling coconut bowls I have some um that that is actually something I've um I've actually done before so there's two different methods of husking a coconut there's one you saw in the previous video where you're just kind of hacking away at a machete and then there's another way where you kind of you take something sharp like I used to use a big spike in the ground that curves at 45 degree angles and I basically like slammed the coconut against it and it would separate the husk from the shell and then I could just like rip it off and then going around until it's all off what this does it basically separates the husk from the nut entirely so you get to see the entire thing rather than just like partial husk cut off and from there you can open it uh with something more about blunt force so I use like the backside of a machete and then I open it and almost like cracks open like a perfect cap so after scooping the meat I used to collect these bowls and just like sand it down you know make it smooth and even cover it in resin it's it's a pretty laborious process when you consider you know everything that came before it in order to get it to that point um yeah it's something I think they're really cool so the nut is more more circular whereas like the husk kind of makes it into more a more cylindrical shape generally so yeah it's like it's really really amazing like what mother nature can produce oh yeah that you can make bowls from coconuts it's phenomenal I'm wondering um if someone doesn't happen to have a machete at home are they're afraid to use a machete for fear they might cut themselves is there another tool you would suggest that somebody open a coconut with like how can they open it with simple kitchen tools at home so that's a tough one um generally something like sharp and a certain weight like just just enough weight to put force behind it um then generally when I'm like cutting coconuts at the farmers market I will if I do see kids around you know I will try some not to try it at home I've heard of people like kind of like throwing it against a rock in order to crack it open but that's pretty inefficient because when a coconut falls from a tree or is like thrown against something once it cracks internally like the water starts leaking out um generally it's just a very it can be very dangerous um I during my early years I definitely had like a few cuts here here and there and um it's I would say just find somebody who who knows what they're doing with a machete um it's it's something that I would it can be a pretty dangerous process so I would not recommend recommend it to somebody who doesn't you know have at least some experience or know what they're doing with the coconut that's particularly why I believe that it's so it contributes to why it's such a desired and valuable substance is that it's the coconuts are everywhere but in order to harvest what's inside of it you have to put in all put in work and so um with the um coconuts I suppose like you um wanted to sprout your own coconut any advice on that um I'm actually the I'm actually in the process of doing that myself I would say like get a really old coconut like the shakers and they kind of germinate on their own like in you just put it in like moist mainly like kind of like a swamp like uh mixture like water and grass you don't even have to put it like under under soil um you just let it germinate from there and eventually it'll sprout and whether or not this uh there is like a type of edible coconut called a sprouted coconut it's like a angel food cake on the inside those are pretty rare they're very hard to cultivate and that whole process of even like having it sprout can take anywhere from like a couple weeks to a couple months I sorry I just believe it's all about uh patience since even growing a coconut tree can take 10 years before it starts fruiting but it's so worth it I mean how many fruits does a coconut tree give a year once it's mature after 10 years any idea I I estimate between 20 to 120 um I don't find the trees so much anymore but when I used to find them back in like 2015 2016 uh that would be like the reasonable range that being said you know I've seen trees with only eight coconuts and I've seen trees with like close to 200 yeah so um where do you guys get your coconuts one if you're not climbing the trees anymore um but as of right now I buy them full sale and I get it from my old um my current source is also the source I've been getting it from for these farmers markets they trim residential properties around Kailua and Waimanalo but also occasionally like other areas but primarily based in Waimanalo, Kailua area that's great so um what would they do with the coconuts otherwise would they just try to sell them like whole like that or um it's a good question it's kind of like a case by case basis uh well sometimes they trim the trees mainly to prevent hazards so falling coconut at terminal velocity um coconuts actually yeah yeah they kill more people prettier than sharks wow that's for all the shark hares opera yeah okay we're out at times so we have to wrap it up unfortunately but um thank you Travis for being on the show and hopefully people can check you out um and Hustle Desk at the Farmers Market um I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill this is Healthy Planet on the ThinkTech Live Streaming Network series we've been talking with Travis Bacon owner of Hustle Desk thanks to Michael our broadcast engineer and the rest of the crew at ThinkTech for hosting our show and thanks to you our listeners for listening I'll see you in two weeks for more of Healthy Planet on ThinkTech the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet my next guest will be Matt Feldman founder of Moku Foods we will be talking about mushroom turkey if you have ideas for the show or questions for my future show guests please contact me at HealthyPlanetThinkTech at gmail.com check out my website at graceandhawai.com or instagram at gracefulliving365 for more information on my projects including future show guests I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill aloha everyone thank you so much for watching ThinkTech Hawaii if you like what we do please click the like and subscribe button on youtube you can also follow us on facebook instagram and linkedin check out our website thinktechawai.com mahalo