 creative talk. Today we have with us some very special guests. Each one with a strong connection to the topic we are discussing today. Now for weeks we've been supporting each other through COVID-19 cases by making groups to help the elderly with supplies. We made ad saluting healthcare workers, even celebrities like Sonu Su came to the rescue of migrant laborers. What is, is that no one, absolutely no one in the past 60 days spoke about the light of the transgender community, which is in fact one of the worst issues to you, Amit, for making such a powerful video on transgender rights during the pandemic and starting the conversation. Amit here needs no introduction. Most of us know him as Anne behind the Bollywood film Badhai Ho. He's also the part of Chrome Films and an NGO called Cool Varsha. Our second guest is Laxmi Narayan Tripathi. She's the most powerful voice of transgender today and also was the first transgender person to represent Asia Pacific in the UN in 2008. We have Azazul Haq, a pizza at Malin Lintas, a power house of talent. Garimath Arora also joins us. She heads the on-the-rushrooms as a co-founder of New Iowan, which has been actively helping the transgender community during COVID-19. And lastly, we have a very special guest all the way from Singapore, Ajaya Vikram, the chief creative officer for Global Clients at Publicist Singapore. He's the man behind the famous Wix ad on transgender activist Gauri Savant and her adopted daughter, which went viral. So thank you everyone for joining us on Creative Talk. My first question was to Laxmi Narayan Tripathi. So I want to know what kind of challenges are the transgenders facing at this point of time during the lockdown? See the post lockdown and the community of transgender has a very big issue because in 2014 we got accepted as Indian on paper by the Supreme Court of India and that time from 2014 this is 2020. 2020 because people there is no workplace policy. There is now in India there is a transgender act. Now there is in India there is a transgender policy which came during the lockdown but technically speaking people don't have nine to five jobs. There is no way people are dignifiedly with dignity given any job. So the topic remains of their earnings is begging, sexual or the blessing where there is good of course the badhai what you call so the badhai system. This is only the three ways people have survived and or and that becomes a very big issue because there is no way that the community has a lot of money as a saving and maximum of them live on rent. So there was issue of housing as well as food because the money got exhausted and I have always said during this pandemic situation of COVID-19 people may not die of COVID-19 but by hunger and I think so for the transgender community kineer services when came up with donate card and then full Varsha and Namo Yodhan came together with us it created a big sense of relief across India whether from north to south to east to west. We parted in Nepal and Nagaland and Anurachal Pradesh also we have now we will be sending in couple of days to Anurachal Pradesh also so these are the states which and Gujarat, Rajasthan, Bihar, Kolkata, Uttar Pradesh entire Maharashtra means I still places like Dhulia places like Sri Rampur, places like Nagar, Kolhapur, Nasik all Namo Yodhan and Namit that full Varsha has done a fantastic work. Now this is the situation where many things come into a light as a trans people you see I'm a trans woman at least we have seen but there are trans men which are completely invisible in the trans you know world also whether it is see we are male to female and female to male is still a problem because of course there is problem of their they don't have jobs as the trans women themselves but we beg and we can do sex work or we can do but the trans men issue is from female to male at times they go through rape by their own family members to make them prove that they are not women they are they are not men they are women so there is lot of tortures what is their work in Delhi I saw to it that we we you know provide food to the trans men also and that came into help like you know Aryan Pasha and everybody all the kidney services people and donate card and even the interiors whether it was Jamshed poor whether it was Korba such small small places also we tried to have our connections and trans men also we provided and even through full Varsha where in Maharashtra where it was possible that we provided kids to trans man also the whole situation is that today humanity the entire human race has to think again that how we value humans in a country like India the the human life value is zero I believe and that's why people die the migrants what happened with the migrants what happened with the trans community what happened with the sex workers what happened with the people affected with HIV people affected with leprosy these all things are still a boiling point where we cannot reach yet but I'm really grateful that people came together organizations came together and even government also gave 1500 rupees whoever could fill whoever filled the form and had bank accounts but every hijra or transgender person or a trans man doesn't have accounts doesn't have documents even though so this is the boiling issue and somewhere it has been basically the little benefits of government programs during lockdown are barely reaching about one percent of transgendered also because of an outdated sentence I was reading a report which said out of 250 transgenders in Khammam only six have ration cards is that correct that is the fact right we can't just sigh away or we can't put our face under a veil and then we discuss the issue see people like the VIX ad which was made by Gowri it is appreciatable but how many even Bollywood or the ad agency world has never taken trans community seriously there is no portrayal of you know how much more better we can do one VIX ad has brought a lot of change so like you know over here we are having giants of the media sitting over here whether it is Amidji whether it is the Lintas and you know I really request that the come from the change makers and today when I'm sitting live on this platform they all are over there you know in that case you know Amit you were literally the first person in the ad industry to think about bringing the problem to the stage tell me why did you think of making that film touching film on transgenders and why did you feel it would be effective so this actually started when you know my partner Alia she told me that you know what do you think of transgenders what what are we doing from full-verse span from Namyodana Ayuga is doing anything for transgender society so that idea you know to do something about transgenders it started from there and it was a coincidence you know when when I said at the same time from Namyodana Neswadia also said the same thing Garma also said the same thing so it was it just happened that you know we clicked then we said you know what let's do something about transgender community because nobody's talking about them ultimately what is happening we are talking about uh migrant laborers we are talking about daily wage laborers but nobody no no newspaper is talking about transgenders no nothing no report is coming out on transgenders so then we you know we got in touch with the kinder society and from there we started working in terms of supplying of food kits and everything for them in Mumbai so we said okay fine let's start from Bombay because that's where we are and we can control things so we got to know about the first distribution which happened about you know 420 families in few days it happened because because you know we thought that you know it should not become like a uh because it's time to supply food is a very big team because you are following all the rules which are all the rules you don't want people to go and so all those processes we were already known you know we already knew all these processes because we were working for last last one and a half months so then we said okay fine now we are we have done about 10-15 days of work now let people know and you know let people get to know about there is nothing happening on transgender so the basic idea of that film was you know so when this idea came Azaz I called Azaz also and Azaz said you know I have a brilliant idea what do you think of this and Azaz wrote that you know that that poem which is which really really did really well for the film and people actually got affected more than visual people got affected by the by the by what people are saying because that's the bigger idea so it started like that and then we because we can't get out of our homes right now to go and shoot uh and we were not getting we started we started looking for uh footages just to edit so then we got this footage from a film called Nirvana Nirvana and we we got that footage from there and then we edited the voice on that footage and it became like people started sending messages on instagram on twitter that how come we have not thought about you know trans society as so many messages say that we've been talking about doctors we've been talking about uh you know nurses we've been talking about police we've been talking about uh you know daily wage labors and everything but no one is talking about trans so you know and I got so many thank you messages on full varshah full varshah foundation got and namyodhan got so many thank you messages that you know you guys did something you know and uh from there laxmi ji has been a very very big support that you know we are we are getting to know a lot from her society where you know she's telling us you know these are the people uh there in gujrat jaipur so we we said okay fine let's let's start doing all india program so that everybody is getting food but my question is that you know till when we can provide the food till when we can because we uh uh we are getting donations and we are doing things the daily stop getting donations how will we how will we we provide so i think that you know the government has to do something about it which is giving them russian kits because 60 percent logon ke pass meh transenders ke pass meh bank accounts nahi because they do not have russian cards they do not have identifications so as laxmi ji just said that it just started happening you know they've got the uh thing about ke you know they are also alive live people so something like that is very very important that from government it should come and we are talking about food and all those things right now What about there? Because there is no living, there is no sex work happening, there is no begging happening, there is no badai happening. No, no, but actually, before I go, I would like to say see behind me, today the Feed India campaign of Vikas Khanna and NDRF team is there with me. The entire NDRF team and many other organizations have come together and this whole program is known as Barkat. And what Amit Ji has said just now, it is very necessary that the government has to take responsibility. And today, I would really tell everyone of you on this whole panel, whether Fulvarsha or Namoyodhan or Kinnir services or Vikas Khanna and many others who are donors who are with us today. Today, what we are seeing is a complete commitment by the people of the mainstream society towards the transgender community. But now it is necessary that the government agencies and other agencies which are lined up with the government take the responsibility and transgenders are human. Amit Ji to tell you and to everybody to tell people has started going for sex work because they need to pay their bills because they need to, it is not only about the dry ration, they need to buy gases and many other things. They are being thrown out of their houses so people are doing sex work, people are going for badai, otherwise they will lose their homes. On this note, I would really tell because this is the team of ours who has been with me very strong with Kinnir services, very strong. I am really apologetic that I have to leave because the entire team of NDRF is waiting over here behind me. You can see all the big offices are here and it is not right to make the offices to wait because NDRF has been on the forefront of saving many citizens in this country. And that makes us really committed once again. Thank you all of you, love you all of you for having me and I am with you till my last breath. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us and giving us a perspective. Ten thousand kids. Bye. Like what Lakshmi ji was saying right now that transgender they have started working, they have started going out. So I was reading one article which is by Sonam Nayak, is the transgender who said this thing and this happened in Jaipur where somewhere they have gone in a house where just wedding has happened and people have thrown them out saying that they have come here and they are having fun with their baby face. This is the article which came in Hindu which is very recent like you know on 29th April it came. So it's really sad you know that nobody is talking about it, nothing is happening, their bank accounts are not there, there are no identifications given to them. I think in this case the fight is on two levels, one is for inclusivity and then secondly is the one for support and relief which we have to fight. You know I want to ask you Azaz, you know you pen down those hard hitting lyrics for this ad film. Tell me do you feel as a country we have let down the transgender community when they literally needed us the most and how can we as a community as an advertising industry to deem ourselves now? You are on mute Azaz, Azaz you are on mute. Yeah sorry, is that better? I am audible right? Yeah. So see I think I personally, I think I failed because I never thought of this, I tell Amit Khan and told me that you know we have been like I have been very vocal about many movements and most of us are about migrant workers because we could see them and they were on road and they were moving and they were moving in lakhs and millions and then there was this community and along with this many more which have got hugely impacted and it's really sad to see that nobody is even like one is recognizing that they are suffering, one is about seeing, nobody was even recognizing that they are suffering. So I think as advertising especially and when Amit said that let's put a piece together about their situation and the fact that they are not even, and I think what hit me was the fact when he said that they are not even counted for like you know that they are not even, they are in the number like nobody knows the number and I was like how can that happen that's like really worth getting and then came this whole idea and we put that piece together but I think it's just a beginning that piece I think that what Amit is saying that all of us society advertising people who have, who are influential voices in our industry as well as the government, they'll have to look at transgenders as the entire community, what to do for them, how do we include them, how do we make sure that basic necessities reach them and when Lakshmi ji was talking about this whole fact that like this, the trans women, I did not know about the trans men. It's so sad of actually the people who said that I didn't know that they exist. So I did not know the existence of someone and that there are quite a number. So I think education and information has to happen in something which advertising can play a role because that's what we do right, we inform, we educate and I think it's a good start along with many more things that we do and I think advertising is a very, very important tool. We can reach out to people and a lot of brands can come in along with many more subjects that we touch upon which are to do with society I think including this section of people I think is as important now because I think someone started and now we've gotten more thankfully on this webinar we are talking about it and people from across have joined. I think the number of right now we are 5, we have to become 10, 15, 20. So I think the conversation goes further. I'd like to ask you Ajay, taking it forward from what Azaz said, is the discrimination the result of ignorance because if it is then we can effectively combat it through advertising and you have done that in the past. You tackled very, very tricky subjects through your Wix culture campaign and it's adoption and one is transgender rights. Tell us how you managed to change perceptions through advertising? Here we go, yeah, on mute, sorry. You know changing perception is obviously the beginning and I think that's absolutely critical but obviously what really matters is what we do on ground and what actual action we can inspire among people. But I do think that both are necessary. I think it's also probably not right to say that just awareness or just making an invisible issue visible is not enough and then we have to always make it part of a physical movement on ground. I think it starts with that awareness and then I think people have to feel like this is a place where they can make a difference because they see people as people and as human beings. And I think I had a chance to watch the film that Azaz and Amit had made and it's so powerful. And I think it's a continuation of that thought which is, you know, these are people, whether they are, you know, the transgender community that we're talking about or in the adoption film, these are vulnerable people in society and they just tend to be invisible to us as we go about our daily life. And I think what advertising at least has the power to do is to get people at least to open up their eyes, you know, have a new perspective that might begin the process. But certainly on ground when it comes to action, we're going to need the help of, you know, everyone from NGO to the government to ordinary people. And I think all of us collectively can make a difference, but I think our experience is shown with the Vicks film and with the amazing Gary Salin story. She's very the star of all of that. I mean, we just, we were just a platform eventually, you know, for her to tell her story. And I think, you know, just being able to open people's eyes to the fact of everyone's humanity is what advertising can do at the beginning. So let me come to you Garima next. You had a production house and you also have been running as NGO which has extensively worked with the transgender community. Tell me what are the different things you are doing to create awareness? I didn't get your last line. What are the different things you're doing at this point to create awareness? So as Amit has already mentioned that we started with migrant workers and you know, then your slum, orphanage. So what besides just donation, you know, these kind of films help us like we know so many people personally, we work with so many people, you know, we sent out messages, videos. So people can do it through our organization. Great. If they can also, there are so many people who have directly also helped people because we send them texts. And what we are just right now doing is on ground whoever needs our help. As Amit said, we started with Bombay, but now we have gone helping them all over India from Nagpur to Kolkata. So from our side, what we are trying is to spread as much as awareness, of course for LGBT, but also there's so many other people like the other day. Amit and me got a message. There's an orphanage who was rich used to run on donations, but today they don't have donation and there are like some 100 kids over there and we didn't have ration for the next month. You know, so immediately to supply them ration, you know, and again, just tell people about it that these are the places that exist. These are the people who exist. You know, if somebody wants to help us from abroad, especially for LGBT, we are putting them on to Lakshmi G's team saying you guys can contact them directly and you can help them in whatever way you can. So on ground that's what right now at present we are doing whatever we can do ourselves and then letting other people know about what people are going through so they can also come forward and help precise donation also. So there are so many things we tried to send masks to people. There are certain segments who got in touch with Amit that they needed, people needed sanitary pads over there. So we're trying to supply that to them. Then there are villages, there are 18 villages in Mukhara who had no water for the last one month and we tried helping them with water tankers and now it rains. So obviously all their rivers and everything is ruined. So there are so many issues just besides hunger on ground, which I think as an individual and as a team, whatever we could do, we are doing and we will continue to do. And also just everybody should know that I think right now, lot of people need help. Even if government does, even if 20 NGOs goes on floor and do it, there's still lots and lots of people who need our help and will need it. Because things are going to take a while to come to normal, especially for LGBT people and elevators. At this point, I'd like to take a question from one of our viewers. Simran wants to know, even today, Transcenders and the LGBTQ communities are caricatured and stereotyped in film, TV, etc. Now, what are the different challenges in getting the larger media's ecosystem to be sensitive in their portrayals? Amit, would you like to take that? Yeah, for sure. See, in films, in ads, we have a lot of things which we make people look like this. They feel that this is what they will be portrayed as, funny or high high. It's a simple thing, how you show a transgender. I feel like on the gay society, sometime back, there was a thing that you cannot show a gay by just doing this. You can't show a gay in an ad or you can't show a gay in a feature film also. Because some kind of issues came and it was hurting people. Here, we need to have some kind of mandates from the transgender society also that you just can't show us by just standing up for themselves. You can't just show us in this light. Why people are doing this? Because where is the employment for them? Have you ever seen a transgender working in a government office or in a private office? Exactly, right. Or in any kind of a place where they get respect. You generally see transgenders who ask for money on their signals. Or you know about the sex workers. Or you know about the fact that they go to the North to congratulate them. If someone is born or married, they get money. They don't go without money. So, until we bring this change in society that we will create employment for them, the way we are showing them, the way people want to see it, it will keep on happening. Because even in a movie, when there is a scene where you have collected 6 or 7 hijras together, how will you show that they are doing this thing, they are doing high high, or their voices will be like that. And where will you see them? Where will you show them? In a wedding, naash te huit, aapar dikhaingi aap. Or if you are showing a red light area, aapar dikhaingi aap. Because there is no image which has been created. There is no other image people know about it. So, these are the things if we can start with employment and start giving them correct. We should get respect because they are also human beings. So, why are we discriminating by just saying that this is what happens in North. Which is again, that is the image we have in our mind. It brings me to the point, advertising does target our heartstrings, but does it really make you act on your emotions? Does it really make you go ahead and do something concrete for the transgender community in this case? Azaz, would you like to take that? Do you think advertising can really go beyond making you feel good or bad for a particular set of people and actually make us go and do something for them? Yeah, see, I think what advertising foreshows should do is, and especially in Brighton, we are talking more in particular about this particular community, see the fact that there is a physical attribute of, and we've always seen the physical behaviour of this community, whether it's clapping, there's always an emotional side of every individual. I think nobody has shown the emotional side of, there would be levels, they must be having adopted kids, or they could be sisters or brothers or others. So, I think what happens is, how do we include them? It's only when we showcase other aspects of these people. So that society is not just about showing a call, that hey, they're in a situation, they need your help, it's about how do we make them a part of a storytelling for that matter. If at all, like we are having discussions in, because this month is also, we are celebrating what we call Pride Month in Marlin, there is an entire month. And one of the conversations we were having is, why can't a person, one of the characters in any ad film can be transgender or an LGBT, who's like a gay, and he's not a, he's just a person, he's like one of the four friends. Not defined by sexuality, just a person. Normalize it, just how do you normalize them, how do we increase their acceptance by society? And we can in storytelling, by showing the emotional side, the side that nobody has seen, by including them as a part of us, we can do that. And I think, but what I'm saying is most important, till the time will not give them, you know, the roles beyond what they are, what they've been, what they've picked actually. It's not a role society has given to them. The blessing, they have to invent ways to earn money, and they've invented the ways of becoming someone who will give a blessing. But till the time, we create a society where we include them in a profession and give them definitions that they are beyond this. I think these things we can do, but I think that's what will include them in real. And till the time, we make them, give them profession beyond what they're doing right now. I'd like to extend the same question to you Ajay. In 2014, Channel V's video to Transcenders teaching road safety, which went viral. Then years later, Brooklyn Red Labels Six Pack banned one of Can's Gropry. Then Yorda came up, you know, which won many awards and it was also the subject of 9 p.m. news discussions in India. Tell me, have business really made the Transcendal community, got them jobs or got them respect, or is it just lip service here? Yeah, you know, the difficult part of that question to answer is whether there's been any material change on the ground, right? I mean, we don't really, we're not able to really track that. What we do know are the responses that we have received to Gauri's story. I mean, it's not even really about the film or the ad. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about the story of an amazing individual and, you know, it was a story of care, right? I mean, that was really where it came from. And I can tell you that, I mean, the kind of responses that we saw, even it's just on YouTube and Facebook and all of those places where people have had the opportunity to interact with the story. There was a sense that they were seeing a side, perhaps that they have not seen before, you know, in Gauri's story. So I would say that the, just to build on what Amit and Azaz were saying, I do think it's, in the VIX film, it was about being able to see a different side from what they normally see on a day to day. And you know, it's not about the blame. It's just that this is what you see. And then I think with a film like that, it was able to show a very different side of, you know, a mom, really. And, you know, it almost didn't matter what the gender of the mom is, right? I mean, in the film, that was what it was like. I think we had no sort of typical actions or any of that. And Gauri, you know, played herself, which was amazing. And I think the fact that she's a gifted actress and able to tell her own life story certainly helped. But there is an authenticity about that that allows people, I think, to open their hearts a little bit more. I mean, I wish it wasn't that way, but that visibility, I think, allows people to see more of the human side that exists. But they're able to see more of it. And I do believe that that perception, that opening up the hearts a little bit, will help them make a difference. Now, you know, again, as I said, it's hard for me to say, yes, you know, we had this, you know, impact and people, you know, changed the way they looked at the transgender community. I can't say that, but I certainly can say from the feedback we got from the responses, which were overwhelmingly positive, I think, that certainly people have even anecdotally said that, you know, the way they perceive the community has changed quite a bit. And I think that making that leap across to accept everyone, vulnerable as one of their own, helps. I mean, I'm sure it helps, but I can't quantify it. Sarima, I'd like to bring you in here. We've seen brands like Swiggy, Zomato, Rebel Foods offering to deliver essential goods and donate free meals to migrant workers during the lockdown. I personally know a lot of people who have chosen to, you know, donate through Zomato to feed the migrant workers over PMKF fund. Can something similar work for the transgender community, you know, if you get support from more and more brands like these? Yeah, as Amit said, that, you know, the awareness is so limited when it comes to the transgender community. Better late than never, that's, you know, people have started talking about it. It's just that I don't know why they are seen in a different light. You know, the whole, what we are here together is to, you know, try and make sure that they are seen in the same light. Hunger is the same for a migrant worker as well as a transgender person. It's not like the other person is less hungry or the other person is more hungry. It's the same for everyone. So I just, I really hope that, you know, the change begins. Brands should be open. And as Amit said, not only just giving them food, but should be open to give them employment, you know, what is wrong in their human beings at the end of the day. So the change has to be on a way, way bigger level. But as we say, that's small steps. But yeah, the brand should now open up and tie up with everybody and help them out in every way, because I feel hunger is the same for everyone. Whether it's your people living in slum, whether it's your migrant workers or whether it's LGBT community, probably they need more. Like Amit knows about it. There's a particular society in Old Panvel where there are 600 HIV patients and only rice and oil and roti is not enough for them. And they have not been able to go and get their regular shots, which because they have to get regular shots for their HIV. And due to lockdown, they have been unable to. So there are certain nutrition they need every month. But nobody knows about it because nobody really cares. So I'm saying that there are a lot of things which people can do at their own individual brand NGO levels. So I think the awareness has to just now, awareness is the only way where we can get in brands, more NGOs, more individuals to start working towards them. You know, taking forward your question, I think as a viewer who wants to know, they say change begins at home. Are agencies willing to employ a transgender person in their companies? Amit, Azad, Ajay, you can talk about, are there any transgender people within your organizations yet? No, no, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Amit, I'll be there. No, no, no, go ahead, go ahead. So in terms of in our office, there are no special policies of hiring to make sure that we must. But yeah, there are no policies of saying no. Like if somebody comes and is really talented, and I think we're given an industry, an advertising industry, I think is one of the most open of all industries in terms of acceptance. Because there are, I know of people who have kind of come out of the closet what they call, come out, I don't like the term, but yeah, that coming out of the closet is, so there are people who have come and we've accepted them and there was a, we know a couple, a gay couple and we love them and it's not like that because they've shown their sexual orientation preferences we started having. So as it's known, no, but I think by design, yes, we should. We don't do it by design. I think we should do it by design. We can if there's someone and the talent that we seek in advertising firms like credit team for that matter, you have to be a storyteller and one can find storyteller who's from the community. And so if we really need to make sure that we include them, we need to walk the talk. Just the walk is not enough. Ajay, would you like to respond to that? Yeah, and similarly, we don't have someone from the community at the office right now, but we absolutely would. The skill was right. I mean, there is no discrimination whatsoever in any shape or form. So, you know, for someone with the right skills for whichever job that is, there would be absolutely no issue. So, so I'll tell you what happened about like few years back. My office wasn't a banner at that time. So there was this somebody we found and this person, he was a transgender. They had come to our office to ask for money. So generally, we just ask them, they don't know why you guys don't work. And they said that, you know, people don't take us seriously and they will never take us seriously to give us jobs. Okay. So at that time, we as organization, we said, okay, fine, why don't you start? Why don't, why can't we? Let's say for like, you're four or five people, you start coming from, you start coming to office and start working. And we said, okay, fine, let's start from an office boy because he didn't read it. Let's start from office boy. Okay. Next day, they never came. Never came. So education. My next point is on the education front, which is we are talking about food. We are talking about everything because right now people need food because of the pandemic and everything. I'm saying why can't it is very important to give them education also that, you know, there are, there has to be rules made in a larger perspective saying that, okay, fine, let's start because half of them I don't, I don't know. I, I'm little less qualified to know that whether they're going to schools or not. Are there any specialized schools which, which they go or their societies are doing anything for their, for their schooling. When the kid is born, he doesn't know that he's a transgender. But if you put him in school from the beginning, then will he accept the number one there has to be cases made in the schools. It needs to start from there. And at the same time from my company side, I would say that if somebody comes who's killed, why won't I say why? I will say, okay, fine, please come. I want to use your, use your skill and come. I will give you employment. We, when we go for shoots on a, on a, on a normal shoot, we are about 150 people in, in a, in a studio. So why, why they can't be given, given jobs. I don't understand. They should be given jobs. I'm ready to, I'm ready to employ people. The only thing is that we just need to say that, okay, fine. You know what, what is your skill? Skills will only come if the education is there. If something of that sort is there or the willingness is there. Yeah. Most important thing is willingness. Like that, those two people, if they would be willing, I'm talking about seven years, seven, eight years back, the story happened. This whole thing happened seven, eight years back. They would have become something. So we can accept. We are saying give them education. We are saying at the same time, we are saying we will give employment, but at the same time they need to come forward and say that yes, yes, they are ready to do it. If you take one step at a time, maybe focus on education now and then look at the wider representation in, you know, different sectors across the country, jobs, different, advocate agencies also maybe to, after some point. Yeah, I'm saying, I'm saying why, why a lowland does or, or any of the agency would, would take them. Will they take them for runners? Why don't, why don't you start from there? Will they take them for creative inputs? For that, they need to have that education. For that, I'm not saying creativity only comes from people who are, who are creative. I do not say that. I do not believe that. I don't, I don't believe in that because creative, if a person comes up with creative ideas in his mind, he will say something or do something. But for that, it's very important that their willingness should also come in front. Right. Azaz, you mentioned that you'll be celebrating the Pride Month at Malan Low Lintas because it's in June. What does that mean? Does that mean more ad campaigns, more spreading awareness on the LGBTQ community or, you know, seeking more aid for them during this time of crisis? Yeah, so no, I think it was not planned for COVID. It was just like how do we educate the internal audience and bring the topic of inclusivity. And it was not just for the trans community. It was primarily for the LGBT community. How do we sanitize our people? How do we make them more comfortable? About the whole stigma actually, that being an LGBT, like if you are a gay person or a lesbian, I don't know what kind of stigma it is. But people have that. They feel uncomfortable and it surprises me that in an industry like ours, you know, Azaz is an example of being the most open industry, most inclusive industry we are. We are a crave industry and that makes us more, I think perhaps we can feel more, we can be more sensitive as individuals in this industry. So this month is about educating on aspects that we do not know about, about the entire LGBT community. Like when they go through therapy, the mental trauma they go through and there are speakers that are coming in. Tomorrow we are having a session which I am moderating, but we have from the community many speakers are coming in and they are talking and taking us through the experiences. And along with that we are also planning some awareness for the outer audience, which is not the internal audience, but some campaign that will, but I really like is an organization dedicating a month to just sanitize, educate, or make people aware of an issue which has been existing and making that and I think a large chunk of the world is that it's time we, we start conversation, it's time we start accepting that, that large chunk, it's time they don't feel, you know, uncomfortable. It's so strange that we all say that we are very open and we are very inclusive and all that. And I've seen people like us, that if anyone is gay or lesbian, and I've seen especially men, women are more receptive of this thing. Men, I think they get a little uncomfortable. So if there's a person in the gay, and if that gay person will put his hand on the shoulder, even the most open men, they feel physically uncomfortable, that physical proximity, they, so all these things which are more in their head, I think will have to just open up. And so that I think this whole entire month is a way forward in that direction. And how do we make everyone more inclusive? Starting with internal low, which is a lot, a huge number. Yeah, and Gauri, tell us, you know, this month we see a lot of brands trying to be, you know, celebrate like I mentioned, Pride Month, even brands. Are you as a production house head, are you seeing more and more brands trying to come forward and you know, celebrate this community even when nothing is happening on the ground? Except for Azaz, I have not heard it from anyone. Azaz was the first one to mention and I was really, so Amit said, let's release the video on 1st June as the Pride Month starts, it was a beautiful idea. And then after that I spoke to Azaz and he said, you know, they are celebrating the Pride Month. So I think it's beautiful. As I said, you know, at least it started somewhere and Azaz reached and that didn't always in itself a really, really big organization. So I'm glad it started somewhere and maybe even people think, oh, they are doing, let's do it. That's how it usually works. Like one end you came forward in this, okay, we are helping 10,000 workers. The other came and said, okay, we'll help the rest. So I think that's how awareness spreads. So I feel it's a beautiful idea for an organization to celebrate something for a community which is so ignored. So it's a beautiful thought and I think more organizations just start doing it now since people are getting aware of it. Like, like she mentioned, I think my bottom line is the beginning for more and more ad agency and you know, try and, you know, do something for this community. Lastly, I'd like to ask everybody, do you personally think advertising was efforts can help the transgender community to stand up and be counted for COVID-19? Amit, you started the battle that I'd like to know what would be a decisive victory for you. Can you please ask this question once again because your voice is cutting. I want to know, you started this battle, I want to know what would be a decisive victory for you. Decisive victory. Yeah. That's a very difficult question, decisive victory. So I'll give the answer in terms of an advertising way. Yes, advertising does make a lot of effect on people's mind. If we come out with a lot of interesting ideas which talks about transgender, which talks about humanity, you know, which talks about that they are also humans, what it, the way, the way Azaz has written in the earlier one, I think the effect on people from that ad has already happened. I will give you the example because we got a lot of donations after the film was on air, you know, when the film came out. People, even from youngsters from college boys and girls, 100, 200, 500, you know, they were also coming forward and they said, okay, fine, you know what, this is what we have ignored. We did not know anything. We were completely ignorant about this whole thing. So a small little piece of ad has done so much that we are able to help people with the donations and the food kits are going to the transgender community on all India level. It is because of that communication which happened. And before that communication, we were already doing, we had already started our work in Bombay and Gujarat was already happening at that time. But when this communication came out, the perspective had changed a little. People started seeing them also in a different way that, you know, oh shit, we did not think about them. Oh God, how come we have not thought about them? So if more and more communication is made on this thing, but it needs to have some context, you know, it will for sure help and it will for sure make awareness. And the winning battle will only happen if we can do something. We will have to continue doing this after the pandemic because if we can talk about their education number one, we can do something about that, that, you know, the government takes out a thing that, you know, like in my school, where I used to go and study in my childhood, in that school there were special kids also. There was a separate section for special kids. Here I am saying there should not be any special section. Include them, you know. Inclusivity, they will include them as friends and they will grow up and they will grow up with them. So then the differentiation between that will end, it will become very small. The differences between the educated and the non-educated will end one day. The inclusivity will have to start from the school. Like if someone bought a flat next to your house and you come to know that it is transgender, then people will say, what is happening here in society? How many people are coming? That will end. It needs to start from zero. It needs to start from, you know, from the schooling. So if something like that happens, the government says, okay fine, transgender kids will be included in the school. There would be enough seats given to them also, you know. I think inclusivity will start from there. And that's the win-win thing. Long way to go. Azaz, would you want to say something on this? Yeah, no. I think, see, there's no way to go. It's a long, long journey. Yeah, it's like a very long journey. I think we've started, we've begun. The good thing is, like, we're talking right now. There's a webinar happening on the talk. And there's Vikram coming from Singapore. He's joined us. He's joined us. You were talking. A lot of people are watching us, right? So at least it's begun. And that's very important. That's begun. And one thing about advertising is, the good thing about advertising is that it's a trend. And there are a lot many, the Bayesian takers and people take Bayesian. And they're like, now I'll do the next mile. And whenever advertising is taking a stance on a subject, changes have happened. And there's been multiple examples. When advertising has made women equality as a subject, it had led to women equality. It's reached here. So the good thing is the content started. It's a long, long, long journey. But I think one has to keep that conversation alive. That's most important. It's not just die with. In just after the prime month or after the amazing thing, our post pandemic, it has to carry on. That's most important. And perhaps one day, as I say, inshallah, we'll see the way. Garima, any last thoughts? Since you've spoken about victory, I'm going to quickly read out something. I read out to Amit also. There's a person who put the film out as Ahzad Amit Vikram. And it said that while I post this, I find myself guilty for not acknowledging this issue earlier. How is it that it didn't even occur to me? I call myself an informed citizen, a responsible citizen. But not once did I bother checking on this particular community. As a child, we were taught Gandhi's teaching. I remember saying it loud every day for good 12 years, all my life. All Indians are my brothers and sisters. But did I live up to it? But like they say, better late than never. So somebody posted this video and I read it out to Amit. So I'm saying, as Ahzad said, long way we cannot use the word. But I'm saying, at least small steps do count. People are realizing, oh my God, how have we ignored them? And why have we ignored them? So that's all I'm saying. A little bit everyone can do in their own way. And I'm sure we live somewhere for sure. Like you said, I think better late than never. Ajay, any thoughts? Yeah, I mean just a quick one, which is, you know, I understand the big wind is far away, but I do think there is a small wind. If we can just make the trans community part of the everyday stories that we tell, you know, it shouldn't be considered brave work anymore to be doing a story with someone in the transgender community. You know, it's considered as, wow, the client is brave and the agency is brave. Why is it brave? I mean, they have people and we tell stories about people all the time, right? Men and women and kids all day long. So, you know, the small wind, I think, is if the trans community can be just a, you know, an everyday part of our culture, don't force it in, but don't keep them out. I mean, you know, where it's a natural part of our storytelling and they're a natural part of our life. So I think if we can sustain that and not just have periods where it's fashionable and then it's not, and it's like, oh, that's been done before. So let's not, what has been done before, you know, there's, there cannot be too many trans, as the transgender community, right? If you could make one every day, I think we should. You know where it makes sense. But I think that's the small wind that we could probably achieve through advertising. So summing up, I think one thing COVID-19 has done is bring out the humane side of the human beings. And this time, I think transgender friends need not just our acceptance, but also our support aid, because they are really vulnerable right now. And quoting you as us, you know, up to Karlo Insanome in Kigindi, I think that's a very powerful line. And we should all remember that, that they're one of us. So thank you, thank you so much everyone, each one of you, because you brought so much to this discussion. And I hope this is one small group in the direction of getting aid for the transgender community, which is suffering right now. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye.