 Right, welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us for the first webinar of the year for Parsons TKO. We really try to develop some topics around things that are really actionable for your organization and your role so we're really excited to be able to share technology road mapping 101 with you today. We also wanted to let you all know that we have designed a workshop around the subject matter that we'll be talking about today so we'll be sending out some information afterwards in the follow up to get some more information from our team about how that workshop could help you or your team so I want to introduce the gentlemen who will be leading the discussion today. Eric Rojas is our senior strategist and John Harrison is our technical solutions producer. They both have a wealth of knowledge and you'll be able to contact them directly afterwards as well. Feel free to drop any questions or comments in the chat. But if we don't get time to address your questions will make sure to follow up with you directly afterwards. So welcome take it away. Thank you nerd us and welcome everybody nice to see some new and familiar faces here today. I'm Eric Rojas. I am a senior strategist TKO. I'm coming to from sunny today to come apart Maryland just outside of DC. And yeah, I come from a background of higher ed and museum marketing technology. I spent my beginning my career at a few universities doing marketing there and then also about 10 years at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum here in DC. So joined persons TKO a while back and really pleased to be working here and with all these folks and seeing all these new faces. john you want to introduce yourself. Hi everybody I'm john Harrison solutions producer at Parsons TKO. I have a background in marketing technology working with nonprofits mission driven organizations. Most recently came from enterprise community partners but I've also done work for a RP and a couple of other nonprofits as well. I have a background and information technology instructional technology. So this topic is definitely top of mind for me. Thank you Eric. No worries. Great well then we'll get started here. Feel free to submit a question the chat if you'd like. We'll try to come back to those towards the end. We do have a few or one or two. We'll be asking a few questions here and there so please chime in when you get a chance. So we'll be talking today about the different types of road mapping projects we've done before, and also you know what our process is, you know, how we interact with with mission driven organizations in this capacity love nonprofits education institutions advocacy organizations trade associations. You know, how make how we can help work with your technology stack and make it work better for you and your staff and organization. So we're excited to get started and devil and tell you all about it. Again, you're here for a technology road mapping 101 story for success. There's a little bit about our company philosophy here at Parsons TKO, which provides a framework for how we work right and how we design our roadmaps and how we look at yours right. It's rooted in this sense of interconnectedness and based on people and systems that power your organization. If you're like many of us, you know, you might be naturally change focused right whether intentionally or unintentionally right. I like this model because it provides that framework for formulating and modeling right that that change in a replicable and innovative way. The roadmap is really a way to drive this concept forward over time, and it channels your current and existing structures into that path forward so looking towards the future. Many organizations do evolve organically right when it's not too organized, and this might be successful if you're fully staff and you have that clear vision in place. But a lot of times you have to create vision and really push you know and encourage and collaborate with staff to get there. All these pieces together help you know figure out where you're where you're going. So, why might one might want to watch a roadmap. You might have a change in leadership in your organization a change in strategic direction. You might have a new tech team that or a new a new unit that's come on board effect that's effective change that change might be tough. Usually, it can be, you know, think of like an educational institution. And you might want to increase your, you know, business goals like attendance or accelerating them. And this roadmap process to help by clarity about how to reach those goals. You know if you've already achieved this kind of growth and you've outgrown clearly the platforms or systems and processes you have in place. And you want to make sure you can support that and support your existing place a roadmap is a good time, a good experience for that to figure out where to go. And we recommend this kind of multi year planning tool to find that next milestone to empower your new or existing strategic strategic plan. So, going back right if you've already grown and plateaued. And that's all about consolidation to right so like figuring out a way to harness that the end and sit with the change that you've already used or got to, and then, you know, determine where you want to go next. So yeah, roadmaps are appropriate for these multi year experiences. So certainly, you'll need to plan ahead. There are many steps. So breaking these phases apart into more digestible incremental pieces makes it easier to do right so we start usually with your current state and that sense of you know where you are right now in the uncertainty, and then move towards those near term priorities, the, you know, what's up in the next 90 days, next year, right, and then we look beyond that to right so that future clearer vision that we have to get to. So if you have any doubts about your next steps, you need that clarified vision to get there. So many outcomes can be cloudy, and your next step might actually be pretty vague right so you need to prioritize the path to get there, just by that amount of data and systems and complexities in front of you. And so, you know, that's how we look at our different, the different tool sets and pieces in front of us but, but when it comes to change and how we, you know, engage how you engage with your audience, progress is, you know, not always it's, it's progress is forward, but it's not always upward right. It's ideally forward. It's, it's about maintaining that consistency of progress and then consolidating your efforts. So when change takes hold, you have these moments when you need your teams to get used to it. That's okay right you need to find that time to sit with change. Everyone needs to feel comfortable to move on to that next phase, and you need to give people the space to get there and build that into your roadmap to people have that sense of change capacity and endurance right or finding ways to consolidate that that that endurance. So, you know, you've got to make sure you can sit with that value of investment to really feel it to, you know, the new process is coming in, or let's say you have a new email platform that's been launched, and it makes things easier for staff to get stuff out the door, feeling that change makes it makes it work. So in this diagram here like that that dark green is that potential value, the colors but even the face three different phases, and containing realized value when you invest in that you recoup it and those flat lines don't necessarily mean that aren't investing monetarily, you know, but you're the people that there will see the benefit. This is also helpful for a lot of organizations with a lot of turnover, you know, changing the way that you grow, excuse me. And investing in the way you grow provides for that continuity so building in like redundancy documenting tasks. Building a way for people to get adopted to platforms along the way. It really helps new staff or transition plans right so finding and consolidating around that everybody else's individual journey along the way. So two maps provide this structure and a guide for yourself, and for your organizations right organizations involved all of your work together. We make sure that that process is as organic, and make sure it's something that you can go right we want your organization to grow the way that it's supposed to grow, you know, like a naturally rooted idea. You have to stay in step with the way you work. It should be a plan that introduces these clear improvements along the way to that teams can get on board with. For example, if you're maintaining your website, it's helpful to have your guiding vision and site. So you can align with partners and tune towards their needs, as well as your audiences needs to right so communicating your path. It also needs your audiences goals, and your colleagues goals to. And here's like a high level view about how we envision our path to a roadmap. You know we, we start by assessing establishing these nuanced strategic goals for your roadmap. This can be really challenging. So, you know we work with you to refine and keep them relatively but the guiding path for you. is to your stakeholders as well learn their, their struggles, what their aspirations are, and, you know what their manual tasks are with what's automated. Sometimes we learn a lot more in that process to and then we, you know, annotate all this and, and hold on to it to use it for the rest of our research and recommendations along the way. In the state analysis, we provide like a tool kit for documenting and exploring your current architecture and your technology. And then we'll take a first pass at documenting those critical processes, the way touch points of how you interact with your audiences, and then help you continue to add to these lists. And then the assessment structure you know as you grow. I forgot to go back. One step we also talk inventory all of your systems as well so every technology that platform that you use, whether it's something that someone spun up on their personal credit card and then bill back to you. And that part of that interview process is this is this us out, where all those different tools and the things people rely on to get their jobs done tracking all that so we know what we're using is very helpful for this process of solidate and. And also just yeah keep track of what's going out a lot of organizations don't really know where their outreach is the what one end of outreach could be doing. So being able to track and keep and keep an eye on and also work together to create a one voice, so that organization is here. Going back to that current state. Right so we will consolidate that and see what's happening right now. The future state is the vision of where you want to go, you know what kind of services do you want to offer. How do you envision supporting your staff with all these technologies and technologies that you might want to implement the future to. How do you want to communicate your audiences. How do you want to learn from them will help you dream this vision. So, and then the final piece the roadmap itself is that connective tissue, summing up all of what we've learned and how you can get there. John, did you have anything you wanted to add here. Yeah, I would say like in doing, especially the stakeholder interviews with different organizations. While I've been at Parsons TKO it's, I think it's really enlightening for our clients to, to find out like you know what are the systems what are the processes who are the people that sort of own and manage you know all of these key systems that that your organization is running and it's very enlightening for a lot of a lot of the leaders and core teams that we work with on with our clients to find out that you know they're not just using 30 systems are using 150 systems and many of them might be redundant so it's it's definitely an eye opener for all the organizations that I've worked with so far. Yeah, we find that that sprawl tends to happen and sometimes might have those redundancies where people have their own versions and nothing's talking to each other so getting track of all that is helpful right if even just to see how you're operating now. Indeed. So, again, kind of going back to that sense of decision fatigue, you know how do you figure out where you're going to go there are so many options available. And we're already dealing with a lot right now to, you know, we're not going to say a roadmap is a vacation, but it leads to a destination, you might wish to go to the beach, you might prefer mountains. But so the roadmap is really that journey between how are you, you know where you are now and how you get there. I would like to just step in and provide this sort of real world analogy for what a roadmap and a future state vision is because I know this can be a difficult concept to grasp at first but it helps when you're talking to others within your organization to try to sell this effort, for sure. I think of like a Disney world analogy right. So the roadmap might include a stop to visit relatives. Perhaps you want to go camping at Yellowstone. And there's some questions that you need to ask when you're when you're planning this future state vision of this destination. Do you have the right vehicle, you know, is it packed with the right things to take along your journey. Do you have a tent do you have sleeping bags, you know, do you have the route optimized so it's scenic and and beautiful but also not exhausting for your kids and the people that are going along with this journey. And I think this is where Parsons TKO can shine and help you sort of find that next two months you know the next quarter the next year or three, and making that journey as valuable as possible as you're getting to that future state destination. You have packing camping right all these different pieces and getting to your place. Don't try touch on that a bit, but that's that's certainly part of how we envision your path. You know and so before you even find that path that first part of it here as we were talking about, you need to find the way you're going to get there. And this might be limited by your capacity by sheer just ability right. You might need to walk. You might need to run you might need to take a train right. Your time might be limited, you might have more time to be think so. You know it's really helpful to have someone out there, like an organization like Parsons TKO that has experience in this kind of work, where we can help. And we find it's really helpful for organizations to learn what they're already good at. And sometimes you need another set of eyes to learn and to see that perspective. We help you discover your secret sauce so you can learn how to make it. And you know help make different aspects of your outreach better right so you can make your email marketing better which levels up marketing in general, and help you reach those organizational goals. If you need help convincing your C suite executives, we help you find that right path there too. So how do you again how do you process all this information, we help you distill that wealth of information in front of you to focus on those aspects that lead to progress. We're going to copy and paste a link into the chat here to a blog post from from Nick Parsons who's joined us today as well. So we've got from recently a recent blog post I believe, about how to create sustainable change through the process so you'll be to reach out if you have any questions about it, but we'll step. So now we'll jump into our road mapping process how we look at road maps. It's firmly rooted in our engagement architecture philosophy so we'll take a walk through that. So where do we start right, we start really with empathy. What does this look like you know we want these to be conversations, every organization is different, and we need to learn the way that you speak to do it internally to right you might have those that speak differently, knowing, knowing how people use terms, what, you know, how people communicate what will call certain systems or, or ways they work or products even this can separate pretty quickly when you're when you're siloed so talking to people stakeholder interviews feeling out their aspirations and motivations. We also want to learn about who might be impacted by any change along the way. And if that you know if you're scared of that change or if they're excited by it, you know what skills might they have to learn to continue to succeed. We work internally on these, you know, we're sorry, excuse me, how do we work internally on these aspects, you know we build consensus and allowing that space for conversation to grow. So part of our interviews might be, you know, start out as a question but it really turns into these natural flow, where we, you know, so sound like, what are people looking for, where did they, what, what do they want to see. Where do they want the organization to grow and where the pain, pain points or challenges the moment, you know we identify these different allies or champions you might be along on this journey as well as they will help us get the change and your organization get the change down the line. So, knowing what their motivations are, where they're excited to jump in and help enlisting help is always great to have people are excited by the process, and they want to help, you know, they should, they should be able to. And we don't just think about, you know, that the tools that are at your disposal but also the ecosystem of tools right and how they're implemented and used. So, for support, you know, this might be how our tools and platforms right service by your IT department, who manages those features, who owns or administers each software software. What departments is it are they in how and how do these interact you know they're supporting mechanism through the integrations in place or are they just manual processes that manual integrations right we're just pulling the levers and uploading and downloading and and facilitating list transfers right. What integrations are impacted by any change or something need to be redone. What is the place to redesign rearchitected. This might impact your organization strategic goals like fundraising. If you change a fundraising system, just before your end of your, you know, campaign, you are going to have to rush and, or you wait until after, you know, knowing how these might impact your timing, your goals, hoping to not impact or write anything negatively along the way. You know, tactically, we're thinking about, where's the best home for your organization's projects, you know, on the web right content management systems, landing pages, micro sites. For, you know, email, for example, how is your platform set up, are your templates locked down or your audiences segmentations in place are they documented are they black box. Do you have control over them. Do you want control, are they centralized or users using them themselves, all of these pieces of, you know, how people use your toolkit and who owns them right are really critical back to that support mechanism to, you know, if it is supporting an outreach tool, you know what does that structure look like, if marketing is supporting it, if fundraising is supporting it, who is the person in place who administers, are they well supported, and do they have the skills to do that. You know, is your software setup in a way that allows end users to do that self service work or is it all centralized. So, looking at those aspects of how you use your toolkit, your platforms in place is really critical to seeing this bigger picture. And I'll point on this too. What needs to change and what is driven by the change of your, your contracts in place with some of these soft pieces of software some of them are licensed based off, you know, annual licenses some of the three year contracts. There are other requirements to, if you have an end date, and you need to renegotiate, we need to know that needs to be part of this conversation as well so knowing what those timelines look like and what restrictions you have. Now, next part here is the process oriented part of our roadmap. These are processes that is the, the ways you get to your goals, the steps you take to finish a product. Are they optimized, are they, you know, are they way they are because of technology problems or skill or the way we've done it. You know, we like to look at that it's and assess whether or not those can be optimized. It preserves that expertise in place by trying to remove those difficulties that you might experience so that's what we're focused on here. There's a distinction between, you know, that internal expertise and focusing on more impactful change, not just because of, you know, the software doesn't connect. So, you know, going back to john's kind of camping analogy, a trip to Disney World, I'm going to buy default for I say Disneyland because I'm from LA but like, you know, well, overall with it right. Think about how you pack for that trip. Especially like when you get there, you know you need to plan ahead for the luggage the food the water the thing to keep your family sustained right and comfy. Make sure you have everything packed, then you got to play a little bit of Tetris and get everything into your car and make sure it fits and then be able to unpack on Tetris it and take it, you know, out and out for the night so you can keep everyone comfy and it includes all these pieces right. These are all part of your processes, and we help in and help you identify those within your organization. That might be what steps are taken to build, and to build an email. What does that look like from the perspective of different organizations are different parts of your organization. That's what we're looking at here and what we try to document. So yeah what will need to be learned when your skills change. And yeah, what will change right by this. And then we look at your strategic goals and making sure that the skill the tools you have in place the people are also part of that part of the roadmap as well so this might be branding and website and your alignment with your website, make sure that all those disparate channels, whether it's again email or social or, you know, direct. And these follow your branding guidelines so you're speaking of one voice unless there's a clear reason not to. These might be fundraising goals. So back to the point. There's a great opportunity about how technologies might impact that fund those fundraising strategies, again, making sure the timing is right, making sure that the products that are supported by your fundraising platform. Actually, support the task that you need to get done in a streamlined way. If you're an environmental organization, or a contribution based one, your outcomes might be firmly rooted in land acquired right or or served or adapted for public use. So make sure that's part of the consideration here as well. And since many mission driven organizations lack some commonly lack sufficient resources, some of these unmet needs tend to revolve around these gaps so we'd like to talk about these needs first and then see if there's a role for them already. You know, we look at these different forms of resources staffing doesn't necessarily need to be full time. Now think about a vendor or a freelancer consult something that's a little more flexible to provide those spaces. And you know, many of you come from organizations with inspiring creative experiences that drive your audience engagements right. So many ways you interact and the touch points you make, you may have a really great email newsletter inspiring fundraising campaigns that encourage people to give or regular and exciting and compelling online events. Some of the more innovative folks have found ways to capture data and analytics based off these interactions right, a finding way to funnel that we're very interested in that. I'm interested in how each of these align with your work and how do you create those impacts and how do you capture track them. Where is this data stored. How do you report on them. We want to find those individual touch points and the type of channel they're on. And you know where that which part of your audience those are as well and the metrics that align with them. I'm interested in those moments where those communications or outreach moments cross departments across channels, those tend to shine a light on some of the more exciting, and also difficult moments right when you have an event, and then there's also a fundraising opportunity what is the handoff look like that look there. How do those interactions occur. Are they smooth. Are they disruptive. What does it look like from the audience perspective. These, again, these tend to be the hard moments. So, you know, we, we like to look at those and uncover why exactly they might be hard and how to make them a little better. And then, now we looked at to, you know, how does, how does the roadmap, you know, shape the way your organization works. You could be actively doing all of the different things already. So, you know, there's a lot of conversations but without a guiding vision or an endpoint that you have envisioned. You may end up with a lot of incomplete work and not clear direction. So we want to create a space to talk about technology, and these interactions right and make this really concrete. So, you know, in the past I worked when I worked in one of these organizations, I was part of a cross across our department, excuse me, cross departmental technology team that we started. I was I was a junior member at the time so I can't take the full part of it but if I was one of the founding members of this of this group, where we just started talking. You know, and I was on the email side of the house, but I had my hand and broader digital. It brought it team together with technology stakeholders and marketing, and it was a wide range right it was production folks, senior staff. Very just created a space for communication, which we find is a really great way to create a force for change along the way. John, do you have anything to add here. I think this is this is a great segue to really talking about what are some of those common hurdles that you know that organizations experience with standing up a roadmap. Great. Yeah, please. Yeah, and I think, given that we have some time I'd love to invite the audience for some participation during this section. Especially if you have some experiences to share because we love listening and learning from from others other people's experiences so let's go to the next slide. I'm probably wondering why don't organizations have road maps, you know, and, and this is really a lot about change management, but some of the common barriers that we've seen based on, you know, the interviews we've done with stakeholders and organizations in large, you know, we see sometimes you know there's entrance structure and trench structures so we see fences sometimes set too high for collaboration between departments. And maybe one department doesn't know that they're preventing another department from from being productive or getting getting the message out that they need to get out, get out using the technology at hand. Sometimes governance and accountability is very clear at the department level, but not across departments or at the greater organization. So you can get folks on board with your own team, you know, but how do you sell the roadmap this change to others. Sometimes you have executive sponsors for instance that may be skeptical they want to understand the return on investment. They want to understand why we need to change why we're doing something we've done for so long for perhaps. Another one is, you know, building capacity, you know, how do you find the time for your core team for your internal stakeholders to focus on planning the roadmap, you know, so that they can actually think about the pieces and parts, you know, with our help of course at Parsons to help build that roadmap. So I'd love to pause here and, you know, invite the people that have joined the webinar, you know, if you have any experiences hurdles that you'd like to share within your organization. You know that you've experienced when trying to plan a roadmap or even just any kind of change management and give it a few seconds if you want to either speak up or post in chat that would be awesome. Anybody any takers. Can I have a quiet punch. Okay. Okay, Karen. I'd say our issue is we're growing faster than our systems can support. Yeah, that's, that's definitely, that's definitely one that we see a lot of working with an organization right now that, you know, wants to pivot to an entirely remote resource. They want to hire more people. They want to, you know, support more neighbor nonprofits and so on. And we're working on a roadmap with them so you know thinking about thinking about like, do you have the systems in place to scale. I mean that's a big one right. Any other folks. Emily, we have a very small team that's used to doing things the way that they've done them. Yeah, and I have a slide on this so that's a great one. I'm going to go back to Patrick. There's interest in the roadmap but unlikely to adhere to it from leadership, very much putting out putting the cart before the horse without intentionality type of leadership. And that's, that's a great one that's one, one challenge we're, we're dealing with right now with a couple of clients is really selling the roadmap and the future state vision to the executive leadership because they're the ones that are going to provide air cover, and they're making this thing a reality and, and, and providing the budget and, and, and all that stuff. Yeah, and learning to slow down. Great, great one. Yeah, so let's go on to the next slide and talk a little bit more about this. So what's some of the resistance to change that we've seen, you know, that tried and true becomes the way that it's been done, you know, constituents of your organization. It's a high bar of expectation for how digital interactions and technology should serve them. You know they're used to this from the pandemic right. It's a ripe opportunity now for nonprofits to catch up with the Instacarts the Ubers the Amazons and so on. And really bring those digital first experiences into the nonprofit mission driven sector if they're not already there, because that's what people have come to expect, you know, I think, to get along the lines of generational change you know this is an opportunity to lean in on the great resignation that we're hearing a lot about right now, you know, no doubt many organizations are hiring new faces. Many of them are digital natives. We work with orgs that have you know up to four or five different generations of employees you know from boomers all the way to Gen Z. And the outcome of this is that some of those entrenched silos are going to start to degrade because there's new ways of thinking and new expectations of doing work. And, you know, we found an exciting trend in our staff interviews that we've done that these newcomer newcomers all almost always know of new ways to work, you know they view systems that work better than the systems they've inherited. You've seen the power of data right so this is all stuff that can help bolster the case for your roadmap. Can your organization explain why it's done the way that it's been done I mean that's a big one. You know, if not, can you learn from your new staff and bring their ideas along into this journey. So make sure that these new people, you know, that have diversity of ideas and so on, have a seat in the vehicle. And how do you build capacity into the roadmap so the effort feels attainable and possible those are really really important. And Parsons TKO is expert at this. How can you make space for creativity and innovation as well as you're moving along this roadmap. So budgeting I mean that money is a big one right you know we've heard from some organizations that building the technical sophistication that constituents have come to expect can be expensive right. So getting consensus on the order of operations what we're paying for the priorities and and everything like that is top of mind. But you know time is money, you know new systems and processes can be costly. So how much can you fit in your vehicle as you travel along the road, how many folks are along for the ride and can help right. Parsons TKO has worked with several clients to sort of help democratize their efforts a bit more so there's a shared sense of ownership and costs, so the value can be made more clear to your organization. One of the things that we've explored with several clients with great success is like building coalitions to help make the case and build momentum. You know, often these are things that haven't existed at organizations before and I'm talking about like technology working groups technology stewardship committees and so on. And they can be a part of the core team that Parsons TKO is working with but it could also be subject matter experts in your organization. You know, these people can help to find what new systems need to do they can set goals, you know, and they can work across departmentally to potentially share in the cost of standing up these systems, and making integrations more useful like, you know if you're trying to integrate say a marketing platform and a philanthropy platform, and you're currently working in silos. The roadmap is an opportunity for you to come together and and and bring value to both of your teams and sort of break down some of the things we've talked about. Also, you know you're going to have better data out of this roadmap. You're going to have fantastic reporting and dashboards that that can align with your organizational KPIs, both your departmental ones and perhaps your organizational ones this is something that a lot of organizations don't think about us. How can, how can this roadmap bring value and tie into your strategic plan perhaps or your mission. So these groups can also help bridge the understanding gap, you know, between departments and I know we talked about educating executives and address those sort of gotcha moments that might not be so clear to to a department or to a leader right like. Why should I do this what's the return on investment. We, we have done this you know we can bring this to you to your organization. Also you know if a time consuming manual process is prone to errors in your current state, or perhaps the metrics are really hard to get at and extract and understand the roadmap can shine a light on the way that it's been done and provide a spark and appetite for for new change. And you know we were also helping organizations I know some folks are say well, we're too small for roadmap right. Well, we've worked we've done small road maps for for for smaller organizations you know and some of the things will help with smaller organizations thinking about what kinds of things are free for you to use right now what kind of things can you demo what can you try out. You know, in the CRM and email outreach world, for instance, you know many products are free to try out or given at a significantly reduced cost. And Parsons is really good at understanding the limitations around what those systems are and making sure that you have a plan for scalability around using these platforms so that your future state vision can be supported. And it's not compromised by the limitations on something that's related to your budget. So, you know, camping analogy here is like you know if you're glamping in a cabin right. That's a very different set of equipment than you would take in your car for a backwards tent camping where there's bears in the woods right. So this is the kind of thing that we're really good at helping out thinking about the planning the budgets tools and the resources needed to really make that roadmap most successful. Yeah, and I just wanted to jump in here to, you know, part of the providing that spark and appetite for change right the roadmap helps bring that momentum as part of that process right when people start to hear about a roadmap happening. They generally want to be a part of it. So there's also like a cultural force that happens that that can help make that, you know, case and change hearts and minds along the way right, making sure that people are aligned with it. And if they want to be aligned with it can be part of that process so yeah the technology working groups that can be in place. Getting different people involved in different places where they can step out of their day to day work and think about the bigger picture or the next place it's inspiring right so thinking about that and providing those spaces help get people along on the journey. Thanks Eric and I think we're almost there right. Yeah, we are so thanks folks. I can't, I can't wrap up here today without any, any funnies so you know you can't really change the past, but you can plan for the future. So, if you have a roadmap with you helps you where you want to go. Yeah, and we're hoping everybody gets the back to the future. I know we've shown that to some people and they've been like what's that. Look it up if you haven't yet. So now it's a time you know for you to start preparing and thinking about your own roadmap. Let us know if you need any help at all. We're happy to be part of your journey, and you can reach out to us anytime if you have any questions or feel free to jump in right now if you have any open questions at all. Hopefully to drop any questions and we'll be here for a few more minutes. Thanks again for joining us today everybody. We know your time, your, your rest period during during lunch hours or morning hours is tight day every week is busy so we appreciate that you were able to join us for this brief period of time.