 With respect to the chaos, I'm so glad that you've joined me today here on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm here with Keith Webster. Keith, welcome. Thank you so much for coming. Well, thanks for having me. You bet. Keith is with Faith Action for Equity. For Community Equity. For Community Equity. Sorry. I know it changed. It used to be face, and maybe that's what most people are used to hearing is face, which is faith action for community equity, right? And now you've changed it to faith action. Our trade name is faith action. It used to be face, but we've always had the corporate name, faith action for community equity. And I think that's what most people, that's a long name, most people know. Right, okay. So we've been around 23 years, and after 20, about 20 years or so, we said, you know, it's time. A lot of people said, what is this face? What does that mean? And so we said, you know, let's, faith action that really says what we are. Let's change it to faith action. And so faith action, you guys are basically a faith-based organization. We are faith-based. But every dip denomination, everyone is welcome, right? We are interfaith, right? Interfaith, okay. We're at our core, our churches and temples. We were founded by a number of pastors. They got together and said, you know, there's a lot of problems in the world. We don't need to just, you know, work on this on Sundays or whatever day they worship. Right. We're participating in this, you know, throughout the week and the community, making a difference, improving people's lives. So they got together, and you know, now it's not just churches and temples and that sort of thing. We've got a trade union, we've got other groups, because what it's about is that when you've got people working together, you know, trying to make the world a better place, that's fundamentally a spiritual connection. That's the way we see it. And so we're trying to raise up the people in Hawaii, you know, improve the quality of life. By listening to our members and saying, where is the pain? Where do we need to work together? Right. Exactly. Wow, I think that's so wonderful. So you were founded in 1996, right? That's right. Well, you've been around for a really long time, which speaks a lot, right, to your effectiveness. Because if you weren't being effective at all, you guys probably would have disbanded a while back. So that's really wonderful. Well, it's a lot of passionate people, right? Right. It's because we're working on the challenges that Hawaii faces. Right. There's a lot of those. Yes, there are. And so we work together with these passionate people that are working together to make the world a better place, right? Right. So it was put together by a few pastors. That's how it got started anyway. And I think Bob Nakata was one of the, was he one of the pastors? He was one of the founding pastors. Oh, he was one of the founding pastors. But he's been there for quite a while, yeah. Right. Right. So for those of you that are watching, I know Keith from Church, we go to Kahulutu Methodist Church together. And so we had a great faith action presentation at church not too long ago. And I said, wow, I really think that that is a word that we need to really get out there even more. And so that's why I've invited you to be here today. And I'm really glad you came. Thanks so much. Well, I appreciate that. So why don't you give us a little bit of a, I don't know, an abbreviated version, I guess, because I'm sure you guys do so much that we only have a 30-minute show. So, right? So let me tell you a little bit about how faith action works. Okay, that'd be great. Yeah. Because at our core is the listening process. So what we do is the member organization. And we're an organization of organizations. So churches, trade unions, whoever, different organizations can come in. And the first step is to really listen to each other. So each organization goes through a listening process where people talk to each other and most importantly, listen to each other. And hear what are the fears, the concerns, the passions, you know, what's going on that people in our community and people in their membership really care about. And then those concerns bubble up. Some of them they deal with internally within the organization. Some of them are more suitable for other groups. But some of them bubble up and faith action will take them on. And over the years, we've done a number of things. We worked with the mayor right housing, right, to make some major improvements. They had years ago huge problems. They didn't have, you know, running hot, hot running water, all kinds of issues. And we helped organize the tenants organizations there so that they could, you know, stand up as a group together and make a difference. And that's because we had members that were in that, you know, that were in mayor right. And so they needed, you know, a voice and they needed that organization to give them the power. So we're an organization about building power, building power for the people. Or the people, not just for you and your committee, but for, yeah, we're a grassroots organization. That's wonderful. And so the way we're structured is like an inverted pyramid. So our organizations are all at the top. And then we have, you know, I'm a co-chair of a housing task force. So we're down there a little bit lower supporting. And then there's the, you know, the president and the board and they're really at the bottom because they're serving everyone above them. So you were the president for a while, weren't you? Didn't you tell me? I was the state president for a while and I was treasurer for a little bit before that. And then, you know, I had the opportunity when I started with Faith Action, I always wanted to work on housing. And so, you know, it was my time. And I said, okay. You know, I'm going to, I'd like to move over to the housing task force and really get into the meat of what it is to be working, you know, together with people trying to change the world is, you know, what we're doing, yeah. And trying to find out what works, right? And what doesn't work. Not just what doesn't work, but what does work. You find a program that is working. It's something that you're able to support and maybe help foster or how does that work? Is that kind of... Yeah, so we're working on structural change, right? So we work a lot with the legislature. We work a lot, you know, trying to, there's a lot of direct service non-profits out there and they're doing wonderful work. We work with them. We support them. Right. But our place is a little bit different and it's a matter of, we want to make the changes in our society so that people can stand up on their own. How can we restructure the way we work together so that it works for all of us? Right. And those are the areas we're working on. And that's the most important part, too, is working together, yeah. Yeah. So the Cappuna Caregivers Bill that we worked on over the last few years, that did pass and we were helpful in getting that through. And that was about, you know, we have an aging population. That's where that came up in our membership. Right. And people were really hurting. And it was a matter of, so you've got your Cappuna and you may be working full-time or part-time and, you know, it's very stressful. Anyone that's been a caregiver knows how stressful it can be. We said, you know, at the same time, we can't put all of our aging population in care homes. People have to age in place. Right. So how do we make that even possible? That's where people want to be. Sure they do, yeah. How do we make that possible? With a little bit of help, many people are able to age in place, you know, whatever help they have, giving them a little respite. So that's what the Cappuna Caregivers Bill is. And it's not perfect and we're working on tweaking it now, but that's the kind of thing we work on. You know, that's work and we structurally change it to make it work for everybody. Well, I know that in the presentation, you guys were talking a little bit about the REITs thing with all this taxation that's not really fair. These guys don't have to pay taxes here. And so Hawaii is missing out on tons of tax. So let me first say, though, that we are not against REITs. REITs are real estate investment trusts. And it's a kind of a corporation, right? And they basically, if they just invest in real estate, if they have at least 100 investors, they can, this was invented, I think, in the 60s. And they get a special break where they don't have to pay a federal income tax, right? If they give most of all their profits, 90% of their profits at least, through their dividends, then they're people receiving the dividend pay an income tax, right? And they don't have to pay a corporate income tax. Oh, and what if they don't live here, then they pay it to wherever they live? That's the problem. Fundamentally, the problem in Hawaii is that we've got so much wonderful real estate that's a great investment. We've got people coming from everywhere to invest in our real estate, but most of the investors, because our working people are struggling, so most of the investors are outside of Hawaii. So Hawaii doesn't get that corporate income tax. And in the old days, before this, these were owned by corporations, many of them, which did pay the corporate income tax. And so we're really losing our corporate tax base. And the challenge of that is that there's so much need, right? And we're working on affordable housing right now. It's very expensive to get this housing built. There's huge need, and yet, how do you build that when you're losing your tax base? So the idea of taxing the REITs, and this is not for the federal tax. They still don't pay the federal income tax, which is the bigger tax. The idea is, let's have them pay the state income tax on the corporate level so that they're giving back something to the economy that makes the profits that they're making possible. And we just see it as a fairness issue, but it's also just an issue that that money's really needed for a lot of the services that keep the economy going that make their investments possible. And so one of those needs is for affordable housing because there's a huge problem with building workforce housing, right? It's profitable to build the top of the market, you know, the million dollar, two million dollar condos. Developers can make a profit at that, but when you're building for people that are at 30% of the area median income, or 40% or 50% or 80% of it, it's very difficult to do that. And so a little bit of help would make a big difference in letting us build more of that housing. They're making lots of money, so it only stands to reason that they should have to pay. Well, it's an income tax, so if they're not making lots of money, they don't pay tax, right? Because you tax the profits. Right, exactly. So it's only when they're making profit. But yes, Hawaii on the whole seems to be a very profitable place to invest in. Oh, of course it is. And you know, everything. We are not against REITs. We like REITs. Okay. They are good corporate citizens. Okay. We just want to encourage them to... And to pay their fair share. We think everybody should have to pay their fair share of the taxes, right? Right. Across the board, all our politicians too, right? So you said you are now the co-chair of the Home Affordable Housing. So this is the housing task force for a faith action, right? Okay, yeah. So let's get back to that. Okay. Let's get back to the affordable housing part. And what are some of the problems that have sort of made themselves known and apparent to you? So what we're working on, we're in the legislative session. So you have to pick something to focus on, right? Sure. So there's a lot of things we're working on long term. For this legislative session, we're working on the REITs and we're working on trying to put more money into the rental housing revolving fund. That's a state fund that's used to help provide the gap funding that's needed for non-profit and for-profit developers that are building affordable rental housing, right? And the challenge is that when you pencil it all out and you're going to be charging these lower rents, and construction costs are very high in Hawaii, it just doesn't pencil out. And so there's a bit of subsidy that's needed. It's actually a long-term loan, and that over many, many, many years, some of this money actually does come back into the revolving fund, but it does take a long time. And what this allows is for us to build that affordable housing, and it's done through a state agency that puts out requests for proposals, developers for-profit, non-profit come in and they give their proposals, and then they select it and work with them. But it's a long process. And so there's a lot of challenges to that. So what we're working on in the legislative session is how do we get more money into this housing fund so that it's available for this housing? And then in the long run, we're also working on how do we streamline the process? Because we've got a lot of housing to build, and there's a lot of bottlenecks that keep it from being built. Money is not the only problem in Hawaii, right? Right. Yeah. No kidding. Space and utilities and all of that is a big problem too, right? But we did have a big win. I'm sorry. No, no, no. I just want to say we had a big win. You mentioned Bob Nakata, right? He was the co-chair of the Housing Task Force for Faith Action before, and he's retired now, but he was instrumental, among other people, in getting the Bob Nakata bill passed last year, which put in $200 million into the Rental Housing Revolving Fund. Oh my gosh, that's huge. So this was a big investment, right? That is a really big deal. So the state is really doing good things. What we want to do is we want to get some more money in there. We want to keep the momentum because we've got so much housing to build, we've got to keep it going. Absolutely. And that's what we're working on. Listen, we're going to have to hold on to that thought and come back and talk about it a little bit more after the break, okay? We're going to go to a break just for a minute, so don't go anywhere. Stay with us here. I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair on Finding Respect on the Can. Hey, loha. My name is Andrew Lanning. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii, airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii, live from the studios. I'll bring you guests. I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your co-workers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We want to teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me because security matters. Aloha. Aloha. I'm Wendy Lo and I'm coming to you every other Tuesday at 2 o'clock live from Think Tech Hawaii and on our show, we talk about taking your health back. And what does that mean? It means mind, body and soul. Anything you can do that makes your body healthier and happier is what we're going to be talking about. Whether it's spiritual health, mental health, fascia health, beautiful smile health, whatever it means, let's take healthy back. Aloha. Welcome back to Finding Respect on the Chaos. I'm Cynthia Lee Sinclair and I'm here with Keith Webster who's from Faith Action and he is doing some really great things out there. The whole organization just sounds so amazing. So what I want you to do is tell us a little bit more about Bob Nakata because I know he used to be the pastor at Kahalu but he was already gone long before I got there. I've met him some and I know he's just this dynamic amazing guy who's done so much for the homeless in Hawaii that the bill was named after him even. Tell us about that if you wouldn't mind. Sure. Yeah. So Bob Nakata was definitely a mentor for me and he's one that recruited me into the church and into Faith Action. So in my personal story, yeah, when I was done being a scout master in my son's troop when he got his eagle, I was looking for something else to put my time with and the church that sponsored our troop, our Boy Scout troop was the Kahalu United Methodist Church which Bob Nakata was the pastor and I just got to talking with him and I found out, you know, the work that he was doing and had been doing for years because he had been a state senator and so he was still very much involved in politics and he was really working on systemic change. That's what his life was about and is about and so I want to, you know, I'd like to get involved and work with that and that's how I got into the Faith Action. So when I started out, I was a representative for our church because every organization member has a representative and that's how we make decisions, right? There's a steering committee, we get in and discuss what is important to our membership, what issues do we want to take on and the steering committee representatives are the ones that really run the organization and decide. That's that inverted pyramid we were talking about, right? So I mentioned that because there may be some listeners here that, you know, say I'm looking for something to plug into, you know, I want some way, I'd like to get involved with this. And so Faith Action is available for that and we'd love to have you work with us individually or get your whole organization, whatever you're working with and again it's not just churches, right? So feel free, let me just give you our website, right? As I was just going to say, let's tell them what the website is and just www.faithaction.org. That's correct and it's all spelled out, Hawaii is spelled out. www.faithaction.org. So if you go on the website, there's ways to contact us and we would love to communicate with whoever's interested in working and getting involved. It's really about listening. It's about listening and then figuring out together how we're going to work to change the way we work together as a society, as a culture, as a community. When we do that active listening process, when you're active listening, you're listening with a thought in mind as opposed to just hearing something, right? When you do that kind of active listening, it makes all the difference in the world and that's where ideas come from, that's where genius can, you know, be sparked and stuff. Well and it's also how we connect with each other. Yeah, exactly. It's about really, you know, connecting as a culture. We need to really talk to each other and get to know each other. It's not just about being Facebook friends, it's about really knowing each other, what we're passionate about and so faith action is working on building power to help make the changes that our members feel need to be made and the way we do that is the power of the people, people working together. Well, wasn't that a big phrase in the 60s, power to the people? I think it was a song even, right? Well, we did it, we did it, power to the people. And I think we need that, excuse me, I think we need that now. We need to have that, the people need to come together and remember that we do have power, we don't just have to be guinea pigs. Well, it's very easy to be cynical, right? Because you look at the way politics works and if you've got enough money, you can be heard, right? Because money is voice. Yes, it is. But if you've got a lot of people together with an idea, that also is power. That's big power. Yeah, so that needs to be in the conversation. So we're working on affordable housing right now. And figuring out where it's going to be. Now, that just sounds like a nice thing to do, but anytime you get into the weeds, anytime you get into the details, it's difficult, right? It is, of course it is. So it's not just the money, we're in the legislative session. So we're working on getting the funds so that there's money to invest in the building of affordable housing. So is the bill called affordable housing or what's this? So the bill for the REITs was one and House Bill 475. And those are going through the process right now. So that's the one we're focusing on. There's another bill for putting the 200 million more into the rental housing revolving fund that we're working on. Tell us about this 200 million revolving fund, if you don't mind. I'm sorry, I don't mean to cut you off. But tell us a little bit more about that before we go on to the next thing. I want to know more about that, whatever that is, that 200 million dollar thing. Yeah, that's a big deal. It's a lot of money. That's a lot of money is right. But it's a big problem and it's been brewing for a long time. I think that's really the issue. Hawaii had a crisis in affordable housing 20 years ago, 30 years ago. I mean, it was a crisis. And if you look over the years, it's gotten worse. So we have to change the way we work. We have to do something different if we're going to solve that problem. I'd like to see somebody make some kind of law that stops this house flipping thing. The realtors get rich quick, buy this house for 50,000, sell it the next week for 80,000. But what that does is just jacks up the price for everybody. And I really feel it is at the crutch of all of that. So this is a very exciting time for people with your concern. So first of all, what we're working on this session is the rental housing revolving fund and getting that funding in place, right? As well as trying to get additional tax money in place in an equitable way, right? And this is what the people that are making the construction companies or whatever is making the proposal, the investors make the proposal to that fund. And that's where they get some of the money from. To the HHFDC, which is a federal, which is a state organization, which then allocates that money and distributes that money to the proposals for the building of rental housing, right? Which is only one component of the solution, right? It's not a complete solution. But we've got people on the street. We've got people that are one paycheck away from being on the street. And so we need to have the rental housing stocks available so that there's a place for people to go. We've got people that are... We've got a lot of nonprofits working with the homeless and trying to find a way to house them, right? Family Promise is one of them. And all these people, most of them work. They have jobs. They have no house, but they work full-time. Right. So the problem is now no rental housing stock. And so this develops that. So there's another approach going on. I'd like to mention it. It's not one that we're working on this legislative session, but Senator Stanley Chang, who is the chair of the Senate Housing Committee, has got some fascinating ideas. And he's recommending that we take on the Singapore solution. People may have heard that. It's been in the paper from time to time. I have not heard of that. What is it? So Singapore, they went... And it's a different structure, government structure. It's a different place. But what they did was they built very high-density housing. High rises, right? So tall high rises, very high density, but not low income. This is middle-class housing with barbecue pits and pools. And it's a nice place to live. And what they did was they did it with government money, government bond money. The government's actually built these places. And because it was government land, least at low prices, because they had a lot of economies of scale, the claim is that we may be able to build an apartment for approximately $300,000 a unit. That's amazing. A lot of our people in Hawaii could afford that. And there's a lot of developers that are suspicious that maybe we can't produce something for that price. But if we could, and you could build enough of that, that would really go a long way to solving this. Because the idea is you build enough housing to satisfy the demand. But then he also has a number of proposals to keep it from being the flippers, right? Yeah, that's the thing that worries me. So it built into that is, well, you have to live in it. And a large percentage of the profit, when you go to sell it, it's at market rate, but a large percentage of the profit over inflation would go back to the state, right? So the idea is you want people in there that are actually going to live there, that want to be in Hawaii, want to live in Hawaii. I need a house. These are not people that want to have money. Right. Yeah. So that's his idea. It's pretty radical. We haven't done that. Anything like that. Good idea. But we're getting some great ideas into the next, you know, and that's just so valuable. That's exciting. And it's exciting. Like you were saying a little while ago, it's very exciting to think that there could be tangible solutions to this huge problem. You know, the main platform here at Finding Respect in the Chaos is to help people that have been abused and get resources. And the homeless right now, the rate of rape and abuse and assault amongst the homeless is so high. And these are people that have jobs. Right. But they live in a tent, you know, somewhere in Waikiki. And so I know if we can fix those kinds of problems, it goes a long way to helping the people that are out there being abused still. I know this is some of my viewers. This might seem like I'm sort of in left field here, but I want to make the connection. There's a reason why we need all of these services to come together so that we can really help the people that are on the streets, the ground floor people, so to speak, right. And I love that you guys do that inverted pyramid thing so that the president's at the bottom and all the people are up at the top. They're the main ones that are making the decisions. He's just the one that's sort of steering the pyramid around, which I think is just brilliant that you put it together that way, right. How long have you been there? Sorry, go ahead and say what you're going to say. I just want to say I'm glad you highlighted that connection of what do people need. When you take people out of a stable living environment, we're under tremendous stress and all kinds of things happen. And if you want to correct that, we want to have people live longer and happier lives. Putting them in a stable living environment is really critical. So this is one solution. These are a few solutions towards that, right. And it's probably going to be more than one thing that fixes it. Is this problem that's been a long time coming? Yes, exactly. Wow, we're almost out of time. We are basically out of time now. And Keith, I want you to come back so that we can hear updates about your progress with all of these projects. Well, it's not my progress. It's Faith Action. Faith Action's progress. And all of our coalition partners. You're the representative here now, so I'm going to say for you to be here with us today. I think it's really great. And I love getting the word out to people, and I think we need to do that more as much as we possibly can. So I'll be anxious to have you come back and tell us how everything's going. Well, thank you for letting us share our story. Oh, no, thank you for coming. I really appreciate it. So I want to thank you all too for tuning in. I am once again Cynthia Lee Sinclair. This is Finding Respect in the Chaos on Think Tech Hawaii. And I hope you'll join me next time.