 That would be good. Tammy, I didn't hear you. Oh, I'm not muted. You're having connection problems. But I heard your voice, so I'm going to take that as you're here. Alex. I'm here. Alex, present. Thank you, Chris. Present. Thank you, Lee. Here. Bob. Here. And I'm, I'm Austin and I am here. It's been a tradition of the board to extend a gift to the staff to recognize their extraordinary service during the year and to help them celebrate the holidays. No year in recent memory has required the level of ingenuity, creativity, persistence, and dare I say it, courage of our staff as this one has. And they have risen to the challenge, I think, remarkably, remarkably well and served the town with distinction in a really troubled time. So I guess the question is, are we prepared to provide funds in order to provide a gift to the staff? Sharon, do you want to tell us what we're talking about? Yeah, so as in the past, you all have given each staff member a $5 gift certificate to Emerson Coffee. So we love that. So thank you. OK, so are we ready to, like, I move that we give the staff a gift cards to Emerson Coffee, as Sharon just indicated. Is there a second to that motion? Second. I just want to make clear so that no one misunderstands the cost of this gift comes from the donations of individual trustees. It's not taken out of the library. Not taken out of the library budget. We're not diverting any funds that would go otherwise. OK, any other discussion? I've already sent mine in. Me too. OK, I guess there's a rush to be the teacher's pet. That's good. That's us. Good girl. So all in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Thank you. That's great. OK, Sharon. So we're here to do another in a series of library chats among the subjects that we've covered before, or its sustainability. We've talked about the repair estimate on the building. We've walked through the plans for the building. And today we were going to talk a little bit about historical preservation. And I'm going to turn it over to Sharon. And again, Chris, I have to leave about 5.25. So if I disappear, you would please adjourn the trustees. Sharon. Hi, everybody. Thank you so much. So as Austin said, this session will focus on historic preservation, specifically in terms of preservation of the original 1928 portion of the Jones Library building. And the preservation opportunities that this MVLC grant is offering the town of Amherst. And these are opportunities which are not affordably available to the town if it does not accept the grant. This is a matter of great importance to the trustees of the library, who really appreciate the historic value of this unique building and would like to exercise thoughtfully their stewardship of it for the town. So in order to dig deeper into this topic, we've invited two experts to join us this afternoon and so please welcome, first off, is Steve Schreiber, professor and chair of the Department of Architecture at UMass, Amherst. Hi, Steve. Thank you for coming. And coming soon, Hank is working on bringing in Eldra Dominique Walker, who is an assistant professor and M Design Graduate Program Director at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. Thank you both for joining us. And I know Eldra is having trouble logging on to the Zoom. So how about we start with you, Steve? I know you were going to be number two, but you've just got promoted to number one. Would you like to say a few words? And then when Eldra joins us, she will have a presentation to present to everybody. Thank you so much for the introduction. And I'm just going to, because I don't have yourself a number, but I'm wondering if, Lauren, if you're at your house, if you could possibly see if you could also help Eldra. So I have no other way of communicating with you than this way. So thank you so much. So this is supposed to be, I was supposed to be here basically for support of Eldra, but I am the chair of architecture at UMass. I'm an architect. And I'm also a town counselor, so I need to be clear that I'm not here in my role as an elected town counselor. And I am trying to think of what other disclosures I should make here. But I have been very much following the library project to the degree that my students, actually working with another faculty member, Isla Xamia, we took on this project as a design studio project about three years ago. And so many of the trustees that were, many of the trustees were part of that particular process that you came to are the different reviews that we had. But I think that that helped a number of people, our students and also me really get a grasp on really what the issues are. So as part of that process, we got from the library, the actually the original set of working drawings from 1993 edition. And we left them up in the studio for our students to look at. And so we happened to have a guest lecturer from another department come to the building that day. So she was actually speaking for landscape architecture. She's both the architecture and the landscape already. And she walked through the building and she saw the drawings. And she said, I did those drawings. And when I was an intern and I worked for the architecture firm that was in New Hampshire, that did the library project. So I asked her all the questions about what went on the 1993 edition. And so she described a kind of a magnificent ambition back in 1993 about how the library would be added onto. And it didn't come to that. So the basic idea was there. But what was actually construction was very much the term of art is value engineered. So whatever there are budget constraints, there are site constraints, all the usual things. But there are also material changes. So she talked me through the set of drawings of what the ambition was and what the reality was. So she also has visited, she lives in New York. She visits her, somebody in her family went to Amherst College. So she comes to their reunions. And every time she comes to Amherst, she goes to visit the Jones. And so she too has seen that 1993 edition not live up to its expectations. So I, like many others, my first introduction to Amherst was through the library because I needed to use the internet. And I walked through those big grand doors and had a completely different expectation from what I saw and what I found. So it didn't occur to me at that time that this problematic 1993 edition was, I'm just reading a text I came through. Anyway, this 1993 edition was part of the problem because I didn't really understand the increments of how this was built. But certainly exercising or doing something with that 93 edition seemed to be a critical issue. So in the meantime, you all, the library trustees have had permission to hire who I find to be the preeminent historic preservation architecture firm in the country as your consultants to this. And so I had the good, well, I, full disclosure, I worked for them in the 19, let me see if I can do the math there. I worked for them in the 1980s when I was a wee lad. But I also had a chance to work with them at UMass when they were hired to do the old chapel renovation. So I was on basically the program committee for that. And the firm which was originally known as Anderson Nader Feingold and Nader Feingold Alexander, now Feingold Alexander Associates, the initials keep moving to the left, completely thrilled that they were interested in working on the old chapel project. And I thought that they solved on that particular project which has vexed the campus for decades. It's never been able to, so they solved the major problem which is how to get into the building without destroying the building by kind of a simple move. So to me that was, and I'm an architect, but that was sort of a head slapping move to put this, basically this glass box on one side that was very clearly in addition to that and then allow access onto the main level. I'm sure that you have all been in there. And I'm actually really pleased that they, I was just looking at their website, really pleased that they have that on one of their future projects on the website. So I've also, another project that they've done in the area that I love is the Holyoke Public Library. So the Holyoke Public Library is not a dissilver project to what the Jones is facing. That there was a beautiful historic building that didn't meet current accessibility, et cetera, et cetera. So they attached onto that this beautiful, or the design was this beautiful kind of modern, very clearly not the same architecture to it. So you want to make a distinction between what's old and what's new. So, yeah, so that's another one of my favorite buildings in the area. It's worth noting, and I'm actually see that he's on the line here or at least he was that Jim Alexander was honored as Mass Historic Commission's Lifetime Achievement Award winner for an individual last year, which is in a pretty extraordinary honor. So if you read the, just Google that and if you read what they say about him, it's all true. So this is from having worked with him directly many years ago, but then also worked with him as part of the user group on the project at UMass. So back to the project at hand. So I've read a lot of the commentary that has gone through the Gazette and some of the blogs and over the years, and I've talked to people that are for this against this in my various capacities as town meeting member as a member of the planning board and now as a member of the town councilor. And I think that the building that the current Jones the original Jones is actually beautiful. So I read a recent column by Alex Kent and that's one part that I take exception to is that I actually think that the, I love the Jones and I love the in at Bullwood and I love the fraternities all done by the same architect. So they're very typical or very exemplary great examples of the spirit of that particular time say the 1920s where there was this romanticizing about this sort of rural past of this area. So both the Jones and the in at Bullwood were the original structures were designed in a way to look like they were built as incremental buildings. So they sort of mixed materials they looked like they were added onto like the original Jones was meant to look like it was added onto over years. But you can particularly see that in the in at Bullwood that if you look at that street edge along Spring Street and you asked anyone, was this all built at the same time or was it built over years? They'd say it was all built over years and the answer is no, it wasn't. So it was renovated 10 years ago and added onto in the part that you really can't see but it was designed to look like an incremental building. At some point you have to cut your losses, right? So at some point I read, I used to listen to a click and clack and I read click and clack or whatever that variation is and they talk about when it's time to cut your losses on your car. So the same thing can be applied to a building also. So I think as heartbreaking it is and I know that there are people even on this call that were part of the building crew for the 93 edition. I think that it's, to me it seems like it's time to cut the losses. Our students couldn't figure out a way to fix it as it is now. I know the architects have looked at that. It's not, to me it doesn't seem possible. So going back to more of what the building was originally and back to the original Jones and then starting from that as a base. And I'm really talking about the exterior then some redesign of the even the original Jones to me makes a lot of sense. And I really have followed what your plan is by attending as many public meetings as I can and watching recordings. So yeah, so that's where that's my introductory statement. And as I've been saying that there have been a number of texts coming in that are, I think from Eldra, but from Lauren I think. Steve, could I ask you to just elaborate a little bit on the various ways in which the original building will be preserved. In other words, what is historic preservation actually mean given your knowledge of the Jones building? Because I think there's some confusion generally around the term historic preservation. So it would be helpful if you gave a little content. Yeah, so this is where I need my phone to friend. I need Eldra because she actually teaches our courses in historic preservation. So I come to it from a point of view of not of education actually, but of practice. But really my primary practice in this area was with the firm now known as Fine Gold, Fine Gold Alexander. But really the critical thing is to figure out what is important about the Jones. So was there a period of time? And actually this doesn't apply so much to the Jones, but in the case of something that's been altered over time, what you wanna do is you wanna figure out what the critical date was that you wanna bring it back to. So this might be the case of say a building on the town common that has been completely altered over time that you might say that the critical period for this was 1970 because of this happened and that happened. So the Jones as it was originally built is really still very visible and still very obvious. It's still the most prominent view that the most memorable view that most have. So preserving that, that shell, or really the... So we can see it in Hank's screensaver. That image of the Jones is critical. So obviously updating it in terms of current weatherization and current accessibility is important, but to me it's that particular shell. That's the critical thing. So inside, we haven't talked that much about inside and I will admit that I'm less familiar with all in Eldera knows so much more and you guys all know so much more about what it was like as built. And I'm certainly aware of that from doing this with my students, but also some of the rooms are worth bringing back to where they were either when the Jones was built or some other period if they were added on later, but they don't necessarily have to be used that way, but to it's really the physical space that's the critical part. So if I go to Alexander and I have to keep checking myself to make sure I'm using the right name is we're pioneers of this is not an adaptive reuse project. This is being a library being used as a library, but they were the pioneers of really adaptive reuse where you say take a train station and you turn that into offices. Actually, Quincy Market would be the quintessential example of that, but actually they're old, find out Alexander's old Boston City Hall would be another example. So you preserve basically the presence of the building, but then you use it for something else, but we're not talking about that. Well, I think that's a really good example because what we've ended up with is a kind of, and it's not in the way you're describing it. The libraries ended up with what I'm gonna call adaptive reuse in the bad sense of the word. So in one sense, the 93 edition left the library building, the original building intact and preserved. But many of the rooms in the building which have most historic value and are most appealing aesthetically, in part because of their historic value have been reused and made into private spaces, spaces for staff. And again, I'm just trying to think about from an architectural point of view is getting those rooms back into public use would that generally be considered part of the kinds of things that you wanna do when you do historic preservation? Absolutely, if there are rooms that are, were designed to be primarily public, the public rooms. So every building has sort of the primary rooms and then support rooms. The support rooms are typically the behind the scenes storage that even conference rooms, some conference rooms or offices in the primary rooms in the case of the library would be the more public but absolutely bringing them back to the public view which I know is one of the intents of this project is critical. So there was something called, the other thing I wanna talk about was, there was a previous campus planning director at UMass named Dennis Winford who is now in the private sector. And he used a term that I've never heard of before which is buddy building. And buddy building means that you can save an historic building by attaching a new, a modern building onto it. So it's obviously like the Holyoke Public Library that I just mentioned is a great example of a buddy building. So the buddy is the modern one. And in the modern building, the new building you can provide elevator access, you can provide modern systems like modern HVAC that can then be fed into the original building. What am I missing? So that has been basically the strategy that UMass is trying to do to preserve a substantial part of its historic fabric. So one example at UMass, the old chapel doesn't quite fit into that because the buddy isn't big enough but right behind it, South College is a terrific example of the Edwards Old Home. And back to our office is it's, yeah. So the buddy was the part that was built downhill from South College and then that enabled elevator access, new systems to be put in bigger rooms or more modern rooms where necessary. I have a question about the interior space, about old chapel vis-a-vis the Jones Library because there's a lot of concern about woodwork. At my sense, I mean, I don't, you know, my memory is not totally fabulous but my sense is what they did in old chapel was evoke the old woodwork. I don't think everything that's in there is exactly what the old woodwork was but when you go inside, you have the same feeling. Yeah, I think that's right. And there are people on the call that I know more than I do but yeah, I think that's right. And would that, if that, did that achieve the status of historic preservation? I'm getting a little bit above my pay grade because I don't know exactly what happened in old chapel but I think it's an important, so there's an old quip about in the historic preservation world about the guy that has George Washington's axe and it's George Washington's axe, only the handle's been replaced and the head has been replaced but otherwise it occupies the same space. So in a way that if you think of any building as being changed over time anyway, so like even the original Jones, you know, it's had a new roof, it's had a new this, it's had a new that. So the amount of original, original disappears over time just through regular maintenance. So I don't know the specifics of, you know, what's critical in the Jones itself but certainly disassembling and reassembling or, you know, I don't think it has to be- The exact same original. Right, yeah. As long as it's not George Washington's teeth. Right, exactly. You know, I watched the PBS special on the rebuilding of the Notre Dame in Paris and it was extraordinary that they're trying to, looking at getting stone from the exact same quarry that this was used for the original Notre Dame. The only problem is it's under Paris. So they'd have to undermine Paris to get the stone. So the next option is to find a stone that's similar to that, which is quarries outside of Paris. And the same thing with the timbers that obviously there are no more timbers within a very short hall of central Paris. So they're finding, you know, groves of similar trees of a similar age that are, you know, elsewhere. And if you can't do that, then you can never do anything. You know, exactly. Thank you. So Steve, I'm gonna just invite before before other trustees jump in, I'm gonna invite attendees, if you have a question, you could relay that question through the question and answer function or through the chat function, that would be great. So while we're waiting to see whether we get any questions from the audience or any of the other trustees have a question for Steve so far. So I'm gonna ask you, hearing none, I'm gonna ask you the question about the relationship between the buddy building, which I love, and the historic building. So I take it that one of the things that we should have been concerned about, meaning we were concerned about it, is the way in which the buddy building fits with the historic building? In other words, does its design complement? Does its design overwhelm? And first of all, is that right? I mean, you wanna think about the buddy building in relationship to the historic building. Yeah, so I think a work in philosophy is that you don't want to muddy what was the original, you don't wanna muddy what it is that you're really trying to showcase. So the original library is what I would argue would be that Hank's view is what we don't. So from there, it becomes discretion. In other words, from there, and I know that the various iterations that the architects and the trustees have gone through have ranged from what I would say were very modern to what now seems to be the preferred scheme, which is more of an historic, closer to what the original library is. I think that's all within the range of what I would consider to be appropriate. And I'm only, keeping in mind that I'm only one voice of... Yep. Yeah, so like the South College example is, you have to kind of stare to figure out when the old South College ends and when the new edition begins, but you can see it. So there's similar colors, there's similar patterns. One's a very modern interpretation of the old one, but certainly where you all have been headed to me seems like a very reasonable approach that maintains sort of this modern... There is a sense that there was a modern building added onto an historic building, but that they complement each other. By the way, another example of what I find to be a really interesting buddy building is the Five College, well, it's where the Amherst College building right near here. And I call it the Fiber Arts Center, although it was a Fiber Arts Center only for a very short period of time. It was a Baptist church, right? Yeah, originally a Baptist church. I call it the Peter Pan bus stop. The Peter Pan bus stop, I remember those days too. Yeah, we could actually get your tickets there. So, but I find that to be a really great sort of buddy building also. And actually, the June Riddle, who are the associate architects for the Jones Project were the architects for that, but so the presence on the comment is of this historic building. And then the behind is this addition. So the other thing is, the other part about Amherst that I love are the behind. So I love going like in the space where laughing dog bikes is, because you can see how actually these buildings have been added on to over time. So there's like a facade, there's a civic facade on the front, then the utility part of the back. Right, yeah, yeah, that's great. I think I'm just gonna just quibble. I think that the, while what you described is really great description of what happens when you go behind, what's wonderful, at least from my point of view about what FAA has proposed is that this build, this addition, this buddy building has an integrity to itself as well as a complement to the historical building. And that seems to me to be the achievement that the building has a kind of integrity to itself, but now given the good work of the trustees and the director, the way in which this buddy building is gonna look is gonna complement in its roofline perhaps in its materials what that historic building will look like. So are there, I've got a couple of questions from the audience, so let's go to those. So one question says I'm curious about how historic preservation will be balanced with staff needs and future flexibility. People have used the library very differently over the last 30 years and will likely be changed to the next 30. Will there be surveys and focus groups with staff and with patrons to find out what they like about the space and how it is or isn't meeting needs of the community? So this is a question for our distinguished director. I read it again. I'm curious about how it will balance the staff needs and future flexibility. Oh, that's so true. So I would say, so as a staff member and somebody who has been on the design team since the beginning, I think the architects and the building committee and the trustees have done an incredible job of listening to the staff. It's not always like that. Sometimes architects just want things to look pretty and for us, yes, we want it to look pretty but it's really important that it function beautifully for the staff as well as for the patrons because that's our problem right now is that it doesn't. And so that leads me into the flexibility piece. The advice coming from the MBLC and what the architects have learned over time is that the best thing we can do is to make these spaces as flexible as possible because holy cow, technology moves at the speed of light now and what we think is gonna happen in five years, could happen tomorrow and we just don't know. So the more flexible these spaces are and the furnishings, the better that way, whether we're talking 10 years from now or 30 years from now, we can rearrange those spaces to adapt to our needs. And it's very clear we've, from the beginning of this project held a variety of public meetings which people have expressed their views about the project and in the early phases of the design, this question about what it is that people liked about the space, we heard very clearly from the public some things that they liked about the space and worked with the architects to try to respond to those preferences. And I do think that what Sharon had said against Steve could tell me whether I'm wrong in this, I think that this principle of flexibility and architectural design, I think is very well realized in what final Alexander have come up with. And some of that has to do with the possibility of using rooms big and yet also by arranging furniture using rooms small. And that's realized in the plan that we are, that we've endorsed and hope the town will endorse as well. I should mention one thing about the buddy building is that hopefully 40 years from now, 50 years from now when the next edition is planned for the Jones, the addition will be also considered to be a legacy building that is worth preserving and protecting. So there are lots of examples of buildings that have been built over time which each part of the building, because I've been sort of dismissive about the 1993 edition, but I think that final Alexander has the track, this particular firm has the track record of creating buildings that then become legacy buildings and themselves and are, it's not just about accentuating the work of another different architect, it's about also creating this new piece. That's great. There's another question. Will there be user participatory discussion with current architects about space use and traffic flows that drew them to the Jones over the libraries, over other libraries in the first place? So that's a terrific question. We finished the first phase of the work with our architects and it was a long and complicated one which got us to, I hope this is the right architectural term, it's the finalized schematic design. But we are going to, if the town approves the project, we're gonna move into the next phase which is called design development. And as we move into design development, there'll be an opportunity for more conversations with the architects about the way in which the building is gonna be used, though the finalized schematics will be the basis in which the subsequent design work happens. So what we've got now finalized schematics, but the next phase is design development where those finalized schematics begin to move into plants that the architects and builders can actually use. Was that an accurate description, Steve? That's either right. Yeah, that's correct. So schematic design to design development to basically construction drawings, yeah. Right. Okay, are there other questions from the trustees for Steve? Okay, other questions from the, from the Q and A, Austin. Yeah, two. I mean, oh, here we go. What is the status? So this is a question for Sharon, I believe. What is the status of the historic structures report and when will the mass historic commission be involved in approving the design? I'll call you back. So the historic structures report, that's being worked on by- By the elderly. So I'm sorry, that was gonna be a part of her discussion, but she is working on that. I'm not sure what the deadline is. I didn't get a chance to ask her. And then what was the second? When will the mass historic commission be involved in approving the designs? Oh, so yeah, so we've been in contact with mass historic throughout this whole process, you know, as part of the NBLC's grant program, we had to notify them and that happened. And they agree that the best time for them to get involved in more detail is when we hit design development. So I just wanna inflect a little bit what you said, they didn't, it's not the best time. That's when mass historic said they wanted to be involved. Correct. That when we're in design development, when we have gone beyond final schematics is when it would be appropriate for them to review what it is that we are doing. Wasn't that they just wanted us to do it? That's when they have told us to do it. Okay, so the next question is, many in Amherst seem to be offended by modern buildings. Steve, are you offended by modern buildings? Only when they speak up. Okay, so let's go to the rest of the... Sometimes I am sometimes offended by modern buildings, but I'm also sometimes offended by historic buildings, but... Let's get rest of the question. Many in Amherst seem to be offended by modern buildings, but is it important to not have the buddy building be a faux reference like the 1993 to the original building? I've recently visited the South Hadley and Athol libraries that are visually pleasing, but modern. So the question... Yeah, and I haven't been to the Athol one, I've been to the South Hadley one and I've been to the regular Hadley one. I mean... Regular Hadley. The one that's just opening, I mean, I'm about to open. Yeah, we can debate and discuss the first line is a really, really interesting one. And I think that it might have been Austin that said that something about progressive... There's something interesting about progressive communities being offended by modern buildings or... What I said, Steve, was that Amherst is a progressive community just hates change. Yeah, yeah, that was it. I knew it was something like that. I think that there... Modern means different things. So the author is using small m. So small m means to be basically of the time, contemporary. I think that we're actually in a really interesting period of architecture right now. So we've learned a lot from modernism with a capital M, we've learned a lot from historicism and actually I'd consider the Jones to be a model example of historicism, trying to evoke a period of which it was not. And we've learned about urbanism, how to build good communities. And a lot of us have been hit in the face. So probably one of the most important things to happen to Amherst was what's known as the Bank of America building because that is now basically what everyone fears is that this will be the next Bank of America building. So, but then my counter is another modern building right in the heart of downtown is the Baptist Church addition that we were just talking about, which I find to be an extraordinarily compatible, modern building. And actually right next door, even if you go into the Amherst College campus, there are a lot of really beautiful modern buildings that are used historical references but are not. So it's kind of the best of modernism meets historicism. So I'm, yeah, I completely agree with the second sentence too. That was the thing about the 1993 building is that if you're standing in front of the, on the Prospect Street, you really was hard to see where the original building was and where the new building was. So I think some sort of a division so that that is clear that this is in addition is important. I believe that that's what is being attempted here. So, yeah, so I tend to agree with all of this except the one part I haven't been to the Athol Library but that's on my to-do list as soon as I'm allowed to go out of Amherst. In fact, as soon as I'm allowed to go out of my house. Yeah, some of us visited the Athol Library and it's an extraordinary, it's an extraordinary, I thought it was an extraordinary renovation. I mean, I think it's a wonderful, wonderful renovation. It didn't have the level of historic preservation that we want here because of its prior building but I thought it was quite extraordinary. So here's an, again, here's this, right? Can this chat be continued to find another date so we can hear from Eldra? I think that makes a lot of sense. Of course, we'll try to arrange that. Another observation, the Cambridge Public Library is another example of the old and the new. The Cambridge Public Library and the Boston Public Library and actually the Boston Public Library is a really interesting one because that's in addition to an addition to an addition. Actually, it's a renovation of an addition to an addition all with three very prominent architects working in a row. So it can meet White, meets Philip Johnson, meets William Ron and associates. And the Cambridge Public Library is, I don't know who the original architect was, but William Ron was the architect of that renovation slash addition. But so I think that you're, I think that's the right family that's particularly the Cambridge Public Library which is a smaller is sort of the family of what I think that the Jones Library will can be. So that's a really good, if you, in the old days, we'd say go get in. Great new current right there. Get on the Peter Pan bus and go visit it, but now go look at the website. Tammy. Yeah, I used to use the Cambridge Public Library when I lived in Cambridge when it was still the small one. And I subsequently been with my family who were living in Cambridge and explored the addition. And I think they did a phenomenal job with the new addition, but also with restoring the original small library. And you can see people love being in there because there were a lot of people in the older part as well as people in the newer part. And part of the newer part was the children's which was just phenomenal. Yeah. Well, as you know, the plan right to follow up on that, the plan that we are hope to see developed will open up more of the historic building to the public than is now available. So from the point of view of a people who love the historic building, we hope they will fully embrace the renovation because they're gonna get more of the thing they love. And I think that's really an extraordinary achievement. The current downtown modern scene is disturbingly ugly to the artistically inclined. The issue is not about change. It's about destroying the unique new unique character that George Vittes from all over our Valley to patronize their local establishments. Well, the answer is we are in heated agreement. That's why we have Steve here because no one envisions destroying the unique character of the Jones building. If you think it was destroyed by the 93 edition, but most people don't think it was destroyed by the 93 edition. This edition is not gonna do any damage to the historic building and we hope it's gonna enhance it. Steve? So three of my favorite communities in the Connecticut River Valley in New England, let's just leave it to that are right on the Connecticut River and you just go north to Greenfield, Brattleboro and then to White River Junction. So Greenfield is a really interesting one. Of course they are in the process, they're also in the library business. And I know that Sharon has some experience there. But in downtown Greenfield, the courthouse is a perfect example of a buddy building. So the courthouse, it's a historic building on, my goodness, I'm not gonna come up with the name of the street. So it's Hope Street Needs. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna come up with it. But behind it is a very modern building. So that's a buddy, basically the buddy building concept. Brattleboro, New England isn't all about 1880 or 1890 or even trying to replicate that. New England, like anywhere else in the world is about some history, some change. I completely agree that there are parts to Amherst. I'll go back to my thread in a second. So like we wanna protect the town common, we wanna protect the number of things and a lot of them have to do with open space that we wanna protect. So Brattleboro, moving on north, another one of my favorite communities, but it has some very modern buildings. Like the Brattleboro, like the, I don't know what the official name is, but the co-op building, which is a mixed use building right on the river, it's a very modern building. And you might have to squint and say, is it actually modern or is it not modern? But it's an example of an historic modern building. And then White River Junction is the big surprise because I've known about White River Junction my entire life, having taken the bus there or the train there. And oftentimes it's trying to get out as quickly as possible, but now it's the place that everybody wants to get into as much as possible. So this is a very quintessential New England village. And it is a mix of modern and historic, some three-story buildings, some four-story buildings. And to me, that's quintessential New England. So we can, one problem is that if you try to, and I don't, I might be reading way more into this question. If you try to freeze a community into a certain time period, then it becomes really difficult to ever build. But if you allow, if you sort of accept that communities are living, growing things, then it's much easier to accept change, but some parts should be constant, like the common, the New Kendrick Park, things like that, the streetscape and basically the bulk, I think. Great. I wasn't spoken from an historic preservation point of view, but maybe it was. Great. Well, I think you've helped us understand what historic preservation means. And I think part of the misunderstanding of historic preservation, some people think historic preservation means no change. You preserve it as it is. And what you've helped us see is that historic preservation doesn't necessarily mean no change. And again, in our case, I love your reference to the Hanks screensaver, that preserving that view, that feel of for the Jones as it faces the town is critical to historic preservation and as it's opening up historic features of the Jones that have been hidden. So... So another comment here about the Cambridge Public Library and yeah, I'd love to know what the people of Cambridge think. So the context is slightly different. So that library is in, it's kind of in a park. You know, in other words, it's not right on the urban edge, like the Jones is, it's more of a park setting. And then the Cambridge, where this Latin high school is right there also, all in this more of a park setting. So without, I'd love to know what the community, you know, feedback was on that. I think many of us consider Amherst and Cambridge to be siblings. I'm not sure if Cambridge sees it that way, but we're both college towns, right? So... This question is a really, this observation is a really good one, but I don't think it's apt for what we're doing. It's not a glass box that we are adding to the back of the Jones library, the Cambridge model is a discussion of what a good historic preservation might be. But a glass box is not what we are adding to the back of the library. So are there other questions from the trustees? Alex? Not a question so much as I second, I have lots of questions, but they're for Eldra. I don't want to put Steve on the spot because he's been really clear that this was supposed to be Eldra's chat. So I would really love it if we could try this again with Eldra and... We're gonna do it your... Yeah, that's great. Okay, so Steve, let me just make sure, given that I'm not seeing any other questions, I wanna, first of all, thank you. You've, as they say, risen to the occasion. You've done two parts in one person. That's pretty good. We're really incredibly grateful for your insight and for your thoughtfulness in talking about historic preservation. Of course, we're all grateful for your distinguished service to the town in your current capacity. Sharon, did you wanna say one last word before we adjourn? No, I just wanna echo what Austin just said, Steve. Thank you so much for this. That's fascinating. I love talking about the Jones and I love talking about Amherst. So thank you so much for inviting me. It's our pleasure. So now we need to move to adjourn. The trustees meaning, would a trustee make a motion to adjourn? A lead. A Chris has made the motion. Is there a second? Somebody needs to speak. I can't. Good, okay. I'm gonna ask you again by name to vote as to whether or not we may adjourn. Chris Hoffman. I move it yes, adjourn. Yes, Lee Edwards. Yes. Tammy Ely. Yes. Bob Pam. I'm willing. I'm willing. I'm willing, but not enthusiastic. Alex Lefebvre. Yes. And Austin Serret says yes. And again, I wanna thank the attendees for coming to this library chat and we will look forward to seeing you in the future at future library chats. Everybody stay safe, please. Thanks, Steve. Thank you. Bye. Bye.