 So gender and interdisciplinary, so when I thought about what to talk about in this session, I was sort of wondering, you know, I haven't worked much in museums, what can I do, and then I thought, okay, let's look at this in connection with a project that I have, this one on interdisciplinarity that you have seen several of us here participating in the app. So we've been working on interdisciplinarity, I've been giving talks about this in the past, and obviously all these interdisciplinary relations have collections. So I said, okay, I will try to put this together and try to think about what I've been looking about the history of interdisciplinarity from the gender perspectives. So I will have some questions or try to answer some questions of like what was interdisciplinarity an alternative form of to access the discipline, especially for women, was this process different to that taking place in other disciplines? So was archaeology just an exception? And are there national trends? So are there these process, is this process different in different countries? And so what, so there are two then main aspects to this talk, one is gender and the other one interdisciplinarity. So let's just start with interdisciplinarity to explain. I think that you probably all know, but just just very briefly, a discipline is a front of knowledge that has instruction, learning, teaching of education. So that but so what we mean then by interdisciplinarity is when some several of these disciplines get together and people start to collaborate. So what was happening then at the start of interdisciplinarity? When did the interdisciplinarity started? If we can go back to the 19th century and talk about this kitchen meeting commission, the first one in 1849, 1869, and taking place in Scandinavia. And what we see is that everybody at that time that was sort of getting together and collaborate in projects were men. The same happened in the second kitchen meeting commission later on in the century going into the 19th and the 20th century. So we see here a photograph of several of the second kitchen meeting commission that we were organizing themselves. They had geologists or theologists botanists and so on all getting together. So where were the women? Were they women at all? Why only men making all these connections? We know that at that time the first women started to go into the discipline and one of the first ones was Johanna Mestor who got a job or started first to work at the voluntary basis in the Museum of Antiquities of Kiel and she then got a job and also ended up being a professor that very late on in her life at the university. Was one of the translators of what was going on in Scandinavia? Why didn't she try to do something similar in Germany if she was really the person who was allowing this transmission of knowledge? And in fact fieldwork wasn't the proper place for a woman and she never did math fieldwork at all so it's no wonder that she didn't get involved in all this interdisciplinary work that meant doing fieldwork. So museums was a better fit for women, for women's well the expectations that society had for women of how women should behave. So they were with cataloging, cleaning artifacts, making inventories, publishing sometimes and she published quite a lot but many of the women who were working in museums at this time didn't do this. So all these first women who started to work in the discipline, what happened after the First World War is because so many men died and women were needed in the workplace. We then see the first women going really into a high number of women going into archaeology but still we don't see them much and what we see is at this time there was this and we are going to see that later on as well that if a woman, so women went and got instruction, went to universities and for example Margaret Elizabeth that I haven't been able to find a photograph of her, she was the one who started in palinology and she was the one who introduced her then her husband Harry Godwin into palinology but he's the one who then got a professorship and then when they got their son she stopped working. So there was this expectation that women accepted as well in many cases, this expectation, society's expectation and women had believed or were believing in these expectations in many times that they couldn't really make compatible their professional life and working life. So when the son was born she stopped working, she was just a companion, the wife behind the big man and it's Harry Godwin then who came together with Graham Clark in this Finland research community. Okay, then Second World War and the same happened, there were many men dying and again women were needed, we see again more and more women into the discipline but we see a sort of a division of labor. You see here this in the National Museum, this bulk laboratory created in Denmark that you see how the woman as a secretary while the men are doing the hard work but it is at this time in fact that the first women appear as in the world of palinology that is the one that I've been going into a bit in more depth that the first women start to specialize in the subject. So because it's such an interdisciplinary thing what we find is we are going to find women in the fields of history, in the fields of geology and the field of sciences, biology and we find them in all these disciplines. So we find Atlet Le Hoaguran, I'm going to talk about Atlet Le Hoaguran and then I will mention also Josefina Menendetamor and Atlet Le Hoaguran trying to know about her again, there's all these thousands of books about Atlet Le Hoaguran but not that many, not that much about her and what I found was some biographies again written by these three authors, two women were disciples of hers so we can see a pattern of them sort of training other women. So who was Atlet Le Hoaguran, she came from a good family, started in the Koldulufra, then met Atlet Le Hoaguran and I mean she they were working in the time when the Miser de Lomb was being organized, it opened in 1937 but by then they had merit and he had got a job in to get connections in Japan so they moved to Japan and she then her life was for to start with for 15 years it was dedicated to her husband. So this is a photograph that she took about the young Le Hoaguran in Japan so 15 years to the education of the four children and then doing helping him so is the wife behind the big man working with all sort of administration and so on so but then in 1954 she returned to research and then she decided that Palinology was a good area where she could do some work, was trained by Madeleine Fancampo and then she started to publish in Palinology and developed her own career and had and trained many many people, many students, many of them women so but why was she allowed to work in Palinology? She never had an efficient job so she was a volunteer working, she had a lab in the Miser de Lomb but she didn't have a proper job. It was sort of okay her husband was there so she didn't need a proper job and I mean the thing is that she accepted that and her husband accepted that so we have to, is how society really influences the choices that women make sometimes because she never was unhappy about that situation and so what we can see here and she says this in 1971 she was, she complained when she was made president of the Associated Place d'Orville Frances, she was, she complained that Palinology was only considered an auxiliary science so I think that that's why women went into Palinology and other sciences at the time because they were non mainstream so we have, she was working as a volunteer and she was working in an auxiliary science so that was the place where women themselves sometimes thought that they could enter the profession. Josefina Menendez-Amor, she was an archaeologist, she graduated in Pharmacy and Natural Sciences, she was in the university, she never married so here we, yes she got a professorship but this is this decision so if you really want to be a professional you cannot have a personal life. She was trained in this case by França Flotsud in the Netherlands and she collaborated or they collaborated together for many years and she worked often with archaeologists but when I asked Pilar López who was of the next generation why she hadn't, they didn't seem to have much to do with her, she said I went to talk to her and she was not interested in me whatsoever because I was not in science, I was an archaeologist and so sometimes these women not necessarily help other women. My third example here was Maria Hopf who graduated in Botany and she again, this is another woman who as far as I can see of what I've been reading in half a personal life, she moved to the Römisch German assistantral museum in Mainz and she then developed this line of archaeopotomy and even if she hadn't been trained as an archaeologist she did a lot of work in many parts of the world especially also in Spain. So from that first generation of women we find then a second generation in the 70s that are still women and I'm not going to develop it because I haven't got the time but they also, I mean Pilar López was trained by Atletes Neroakuran then Michel Dupré who in fact, I mean she was French but went and developed her career in Spain or Blancard with Zapata who was really the disciple of Menendez Amor. So these are examples that I have developed from my own work and so the Spain France. So was it a disciplinary and alternative form of access to the discipline? Yes I think it was. Was this process different to that taken in other disciplines? No we have seen that it is happening in other disciplines as well as the national trends. I'm sure that I haven't been able to go so deep but it seems that are very sort of similar in many countries. But what happened when auxiliary sciences stopped being auxiliary to become mainstream and then you start finding men. So men, men, men. So we have here an example of a group of very Catalan, young Catalan archaeologists. This is when there were nobody, there were just the students. You find men in the higher row, women in the lower row and they they were excavated together and published together about all these different sciences. It was a very exciting moment you know after the dictatorship when Catalan became an autonomous province but who then got jobs? They got the jobs. The men got the jobs and you know most of the men got the jobs. That was mainstream archaeology. That's where the jobs were at that time in the late 80s and early 90s and they were there. The situation then have to say it has improved. There are now here there are people in the disciplinary are not so much but you know it is their students who are now starting to get into universities. It's getting a bit more varied. So not everything is bad but what I would say is is everything has everything gone back to normal? Okay let's go to the open ceremony of this EAA. How many women were there in the open ceremony? You know there was one last one and these are only some of the men. There were men, men, men, men and this is our previous 2019 and still all the prices to men, the big men are men and not women. Are there women enough women now in an association that is more women that have more women than men? It's just the young student as a student who has to be the last talk so I think this is still quite to do. Thank you.