 So, I am now going to call the law on housing authority water conditioners right in the meeting with order. Let's have a roll call, please. Chair, Joe Fett. Commissioner Rodriguez. Commissioner DiLago-Ferri. Commissioner Martin. Commissioner Tamaros. Commissioner Yalboa. Interim Executive Director Harold Rodriguez. Regional Manager Lisa Gallinard. General Supervisor for the Guinness. Is there any folks safety? Mollye O'Donnell. Mollye O'Donnell. Mollye O'Donnell, Housing Director. Tracy DeFrancisco has been in here. Great, thank you. We now have the regimen of people in the Guinness. People behind us. Oh, hi. Take off. The Guinness, are you hearing? Anyone else? That's all. I will add that Tim, I think he said this before, he didn't. We funded the attorney position for the housing authority and Tim was doing that. So he shifted it forward. Congratulations. He's LHA in-house. In-city in-house for affordable housing. So he's LHA in general. Can I have a motion to put it in January? So the second is being moved by the Commissioners Martin. Seconded by the Commissioners Martin. Is there any discussion on this? All those in favor? Second. Aye. All those in favor? All abstained because I was not present at that meeting. So that passes with one extension by the Commissioners Martin. We are the public and let it be heard. Questions that you would like to speak? Yes. You are. Three minutes. My name is, should I stand up? My name is Huck Walk. I live at 1272 Lowlands Beach Avenue. I'm going to have to talk to my commissioners about this topic. But back in January 2021, the city council passed a ban on using ADUs as short-term rentals. But it is still allowed to have a short-term rental in a single family home. So I could, for example, take my rental that has a family of three living in it, and I could pick them up and turn that into a short-term rental. But I cannot carve out a space in my own home or in my backyard to build an ADU and run that into a short-term rental. I'm just trying to understand why the former is okay and the latter is not okay. Especially when I feel like ADUs are the perfect place for short-term rentals. You might not like short-term rentals, but we do want to have out-of-town people come in to Longmont. Some of those people prefer short-term rentals over hotels. And ADUs are perfect because the homeowner is on site. You can manage that and make sure that the guests are being good guests and good neighbors, parking where they would be, putting trash where they would be, and that sort of thing. So again, my main question is why are short-term rentals allowed in single family homes and taking up these larger spaces that families can live in while you can't use an ADU as a short-term rental? Especially when some people rely on that for affordability of their home when they're on a fixed income and any of that extra income. So, thanks very much. Thank you. And this might be... If you could please send this in a regular session, it's probably better to be heard. That might be better because this is just long-run housing. Right. And I have done that. Okay. I can show you my three minutes that I did that. Thank you. I figured it would be useful for the housing situation. I think there's a shortage of housing. He's getting used up in... Thank you. So, going back, I skipped the agenda revisions and submissions and documents. Do we have any... I don't see any agenda revisions, but do maybe the commissioners have any solutions on this? This one, the staff has a recommendation. Great. The property tax exemption and partnership policy in your hard copy packets that you have here, you have a version with a red line on it. Some late changes came in based on some attorney suggestions that came in this morning. So, there is a red line version in your packet as well. And that's what we would like to discuss for item 8. It's for item 2. I am trying to say that it's not online. It's under agenda revisions. Oh, it's under agenda revisions? Okay. So, I'm going to be presenting on this tonight. Molly O'Donnell, happy director. The existing property tax exemption partnership policy was put into place a year ago, February 2022. This was something that was put into a place ahead of the anticipated development projects that were most active in 2022, Christian 2 being the heaviest one. We wanted to make sure that we had a policy in place for calculating the partnership fee that would be required. And what we have since learned through research and experience going through developments in the last year is that our property tax exemption partnership policy should really be expanded to be more all-encompassing as everything goes into that partnership. So, in order for the housing authority to become, to enter into that partnership, we have to enter the ownership structure as a special limited partner. So, we wanted to make sure that this was clear, that that was the mechanism to become that partner and allow those private developments that are affordable housing, but not sponsored by the housing authority to benefit from tax property tax exemptions. So, we wanted to make sure that was clear. We also have been hit up in the last year by several developers of new buildings, new affordable housing units, and some existing affordable housing providers asking about our property tax exemption partnership policy and how they could gain access to it. It really is, these types of policies are something that are very common in housing authorities. And it's really a very attractive, attractive carrot for developers that are looking around at communities and where they want to build affordable housing. And this is one of the things they really rely on to make performance work and make the financing work. And so, they're all very interested in what the fees look like and how the structures would come together in that type of thing. So, in hearing some of their arguments for what they would like, we really thought that clarifying our policy and how we're going to evaluate those projects is really important and confirm and be more detailed about our fees and how we collect them, how we calculate them based on the value of the benefit to the community that that project brings. And for those that are already on the tax rolls and have not benefited from this policy but are providing affordable housing, they're looking for ways to benefit from property tax exemption as we wanted to build in a way for that to be considered but also way against the pros and cons of losing tax revenue in the community for the benefit of that affordable housing development. So, what you find here is a much more robust policy than was adopted in 2022. It really does describe the application process, our evaluation process, clarifies things about the fees, clarifies how the special limited partnership comes together and what we expect in return. And we also put on here some ongoing management fees because there is some compliance that staff would have to do to make sure that they're upholding the commitments that are made with these partnerships. So, the red line that you see in your packet has really much just came in most recently. There's two major ones. First of all, for those existing projects that I was talking about we really wanted to make sure that we left this a little bit more open to negotiation because those are going to be really special circumstances and we need to carefully weigh the benefits to the community from removing something from the tax roll that's already there and evaluate their purpose for wanting the property tax exemption because the intent is not to allow just an extra profit on the property. It's really in exchange for a benefit. So, there's one piece there is just talking about for those existing projects making sure we have negotiation tools and then the second one is under the partnership terms when we are considering the special limited partnership and what we expect in return. We expect an option for a first right of refusal but the special counsel that we had helping us with this told us, advised us not to get too prescribed there and to leave it open to negotiations because every property has a different setup and organization and we don't want to pigeonhole ourselves into something that we can't change. So, we still expect a right of first refusal to make sure that the housing is still part of our affordable stock if there are the opportunity to take it over or negotiate how that works. To give you a theoretical example of this one, we never thought this was going to happen but let's say that there's, and we talked about this with the advisory board so let's say there's a 200 unit multi-family complex that under their existing structure they're an experiment project, some project and they're providing a significant portion of affordable housing but because they didn't go through this process they don't have a tax exemption which means they're currently paying property tax and they come and say, well because we're meeting these credentials we want the ability to just pay this property tax exemption. We all have the ability, as a housing authority to enter into a special limited partnership to give them a property tax waiver. So, let's say theoretically we're paying $2 million in property tax. The housing authority could engage into an negotiation of let's say we want a first right of refusal and so let's say it's a 15 year compliance period. We want first right of refusal and then the 15 year compliance period comes up. We want a amount of preference but we want you to contact us when there are openings for voucher holders potentially so that we can direct our voucher holders in there and let's say we want a million dollars annually to be paying to a housing authority for the luxury of, and I'll just make you skim the numbers, for the luxury of this property tax. Well, that would take potentially $2 million off the property tax, where it would shift $1 million into the general operating fund of the housing authority which then allows you to, A, deal with the financial issues that we have, B, leverage that million dollars against the affordable housing fund with the construction of other projects so that we can increase, so we can handle some of these affordable housing needs and so it's a mechanism that's available to the housing authority, where you can enter into these special living partners and Ben Doyle is the one that provided some information that not gets so rigid that you don't have room to negotiate because every one of these will present its own unique circumstances that you have to look at. Thank you. Can you put other conditions on that benefit the city and the public? So for example, could you make them put solar panels in the battery in their complex and allow city communication services to be provided? I don't know if we could because we're doing this as the housing authority. We can look at it. I think the key piece for them is they're going to be looking at the margins and going, does this make sense financially for us or not? Well, that's a question that we, you know, in lieu of part of that million dollars that they were going to put in the housing fund. There are other family propositions that policy-wise we have to deal with. Just so unclear. The housing authority would have the option basically to take property off the rolls for whatever, for this unit, for this combination of units. As long as it's affordable housing and everything. So, isn't there, Tim, and I guess maybe this is a question for you. In the statutes that establish the basis for creating special districts, there are some reasons, and it may vary based on statute 32 and 34, I'm not closing onto that, where there are some exemptions that can be allowed. If there's a district created, it's going to be a new property tax, a property where it can go to, I think the county commissioners, to have their property taken off the rolls, and in other, for some reasons, and for other reasons, they cannot. Does that make sense to you, or do you track that out? So, how would that work in this case? I think that's an accurate statement, that there are some, and the only reason I know this, is because we've been so deeply into this conversation with this old childhood admission, and looking at the statute, I don't know if it's statute 32, CRS 32 and 34, but it lays out the reasons, and stipulates, for this one, you cannot get an exemption, others you can't. Different statute, totally different statute, that we operate on here, and it's pretty basic, I don't know if you've called it up. Yeah, it's pretty basic. I believe it, I don't think it's completely un-contactable, I think it makes you exempt from taxation, and it's important to people about it. So, that's the special limited partnership, because we become part of, and frankly, we did it on Crispin, two, I don't know if we did it on Crispin's log, that was pre-Eus, we'll do it, obviously on Zinnia, we'll do it on Zinnia. So, anyone you do, you have to do that, because if otherwise your capital stack gets out, this is a new piece, that sort of fell in our lap, where we were like, oh, may I ask one more question? This would be it. We're going to cover two of that for us, and four partners. Has there been any discussion with the school district or others who will be affected by this? Not yet. Are we premature, or is that going to matter? Or is it still insignificant in terms of their total revenue stream? I think, A, it will depend on the project, so we don't, every project is going to have its own basis, for lack of a better word, and so I think what we would do is, as you see these come forward, you would do the evaluation and to understand what's lost, and what's lost, and to who. And then, before we would bring something to you all to look at specifically, we would engage in the conversations, but I think it's hard to generalize this because they all have their own financial characteristics. Just to clarify, this is not new. This has been going on through the housing authority. This is just really cementing a policy, and this is very common across all housing authorities in Colorado. Eugene asked the question if I could use him. He goes, well, do we even know about this? And the answer was, as a city, you can receive property tax. We had no clue we were just getting this exemption when we were not part of the housing authority because the housing authorities can engage in those relationships, and then the special limited partnership just gets the tax flows, and so we have properties here that agreements were made when they were constructed. What was the law? We have a whole list of SOPs that the housing authority received fees for $1.10, not ongoing, but for $1.10 fees. The only difference was the fees are now much higher and we're building on going and when something presents itself that's currently paid it gives us a negotiating ability to look at these components and then each project's going to present its own financial issues and we'll give you an example and we'll talk about some development challenges that we're running into on one of them now and so so my question is I'm a little bit nervous about having the property tax exemption on partnerships that are outside of the LHA around these would all be the LHA would be in order to get it you have to be a special limited partner to be in the ownership structure and as we built in what we could hear regarding maintaining the home and safety of the property ensuring there's compliance issues just making sure that if LHA is assigning their name and ownership to it that it is with fully LHA values and serving their commitment. So would the development be entering to our ICO of 12% or would the whole project have to be affordable? It can be so this can be applied on a percentage basis it is based on in-statute the percent of your units that are affordable that's the amount of property tax exemption you're eligible for on a percentage basis. And they'll all be significantly over 12% they're only building what you're required that we're not that's one of those good times now. These are typically LIH Tech projects that are all under 60% whether they're de-restricted or not because of our IH, the city's IH policy sounds different but that wouldn't expect this to apply to somebody who's building just their 12% IH on-site units. Okay so the properties that our exemption would be only for the percentage of affordable that makes sense. My other question was going to be since this is up here would we be giving other exemptions or tax incentive building incentives to the developer on top of the property tax? As the city, that would be an option. No that would be through our housing process where we would look at that that would depend so it's two different questions so we do that now. So when we bring an affordable housing project there's the tax exemption before they're built and then there's the tax exemption after they're built so you've got to split these two in part. So when we bring a project to you all and we're trying to manage the gap in the financing because every one of these has its own gap and look to give you just a hint of what we're going to go over so like the one I pulled from the $4 million gap so the way you cover the gap is you start looking at everything we have in our arsenal to shrink that $4 million gap down and so they would give both because you need it on the operational side on the ongoing dollars that's for those that are planning to be built. Those that are built that are asking for it is a completely different equation and that's one where you tend to look for more money out of it so that you can maximize a you can cover the $600,000 ongoing operating gap that we have and leverage you in some dollars for other construction. And how long then would the tax exemption last on the LHA? As long as the LHA is on the ownership structure so typically let's say you go through, if it's a line tech project you go through a 15 year compliance period and then if you are re-syndicating or the investor wants to exit then if that ownership structure changes then your exemption goes. And it's built right now based on 15 years in terms of our fee calculator. And if you have a first right of refusal associated with this and then they want to sell we may come in and go we want to buy and well then it's an opportunity because we own it and it's really how do you maximize the gap it's going to be. Okay. Thank you. Just to clarify for myself because a lot of the examples that people have been talking about have been from new development but Harold I think the first thing sorry, Harold is right. The first event that we gave was for an existing property that had a lot of low income residents a lot of vouchers for residents already and so they could do this to re-syndicate essentially or syndicate No not even re-syndicate Let's say a project they want to they want to fix themselves they want to upgrade they want to do something they need to pull some operating money out and but that's even though we had a lot of examples about new development that's still a big part of the example so it could be it could be clover based apartments for example and that would work. Yeah so let's say you had a unit that was tax credit that was going to be a tax credit that What if it wasn't what if it was private property that wanted to upgrade a lot of these because it's close to compliance or because it wouldn't be compliant That's where you need the flexibility to have that conversation but I think where you will see this happen is a project that has received tax credit but for whatever reason the policies that the housing authority had at the time they weren't going to qualify I'm looking to Bali because they may have been they may have provided 40% of affordable housing and the policy was 50% we changed the policy where we had some flexibility based on what's being built and they may go oh we want to take advantage of that so that's where the negotiation starts and other things we didn't talk about as we said you have to be in a crime-free multi-family housing program you have to adhere to their requirements so with Sarah now as part of the team if you have somebody where you become a special limited partner and all of a sudden you're having issues with their property and they're not taking their recommendations we can go we're not it gives us some leverage points on some things that we don't have leverage on that really benefits the residents So another answer to the question how long does the arrangement last is while they remain in compliance with rules and as long as we're special limited partner okay so I think that we need to know to approve the partnership policy tax exemption partnership policy a little approval second so okay approval of the tax the LHA tax exemption partnership policy was made by commissioner warbs same do you by commissioner you don't hold her at all although it's in the paper if you say it I'll add those post so that passes you Tim you might as well stay up here with us so have you all always had to the facilitation fee or the administration fee I think it's pretty cool to make sure that they but I think it's pretty cool that you all are making sure that they align to our mission that's very very important but so what made you come up with the thousand dollar facilitation we would just also do but I just want to know we were researching other housing authority policies in the area and most of them do have some sort of ongoing fee just because it will take us some level of staff time not a lot in those cases but some level of staff have to make sure we're checking out all of their behind pieces so it's not we're not trying to reinvent the wheel we want you provide us like your CHEF audits and we will make sure everything looks good we're not going to audit you and do a heavy lift but just trying to keep tax well that's actually interesting so this all kind of exploded in the board of commissioners meeting in a good way so people they all once here started asking questions and then we were literally sitting here feeling okay we're trying to monetize we're trying to get enough funds to create a affordable housing and I know we're putting a million dollars annually in general but if there's a way for us to also bring funding in on this then it really maximizes the potential that we have to really further the broader goals of affordable housing in the community and this is one of these classic examples where you're learning through if you're just on the housing authority side you don't see this and if you're just on the city side you don't see this and this is kind of where you see us start blending these concepts together where there are a broader affordable housing strategy and that latter piece you're not going to see in other communities but I don't know if they've ever had any one approach about it probably because they already had this policy and most of them already this was definitely everything that you see in these the changes that were made we had two whole working sessions with the advisory board bringing in Boulder County Lawrence Elliott with the Boulder County Housing Authority just counting off ideas running through care housing checks and making sure that everything made sense so this has been in the work for quite a while and to side note to this Eugene and I were in a different meeting has nothing to do with the housing authority but has to deal with housing generally and they threw out some concepts that were really intrigued by San Antonio's probably cutting edge on some of this and so we're going to take that and start diving into it because we think it may create some additional opportunities for more affordable housing and potentially even attainable housing especially on the rental side because attainable rentals on this not existed here and so we're going to be bringing some more concepts that we're learning through as we're dealing with different conversations I'm interested in what you're doing so I'm going to ask you to go into what kind of project you're going to see next that's my Placid Defense Assessment so this is a report that we do every year it's due at the end of February it's a C-MAP stands for Section 8 Management Assessment Program so we gather up a lot of information for HUD and fill this out document how we came up with the answer and then this is sent in and we're given a score the last time we did this was in 2019 because of COVID we had a waiver so this is the first year that we're doing it since then the score that we have we have to get a 90 90 points or higher so we've hit that on this year how many points? we got 115 well Asians are we 2% shy of getting 15 more I know we're not going to forget that we're going to be at 95% next year and that was Lisa so we never went into our reserves and into our reserves this year so we were close to Lisa we were at 93% what about the utility on my own seven so there's a couple of things that I noticed here that should be a yes and then the check mark under 14B it's not applicable and that was missing so that will be correct the utility is that what you wanted? so do we need questions or just a question? yes, we should see none I'm impressed this is great do you know the history what LNJ events were at before? so in 2019 the records that we found we never had performers I don't know if they were audited by HUD and that was suggested but I think it benefited them so we we need emotions to adopt a resolution in 20.305 to see that certification how about resolution 20.305 okay so this resolution between 20.305 does the answer can be shown in order or can be shown in order oh you're a go I'm sorry there's so much time to get this far I'm not lying any discussion seeing them both follow some favor or conductors five all those votes that passes you 30.306 40 40 so I'll open this up and then I'm going to ask for Tim's help so with our our new extra special support from the CAO's office we're doing a couple of cleanup items to make sure that we are on sound footage going forward so there was a former motion back in 2020 I believe maybe 2021 about approving signatory for the executive director Tim do you want to give a comment on why we're adding this one in today this is a kind of a common resolution that hasn't been passed in the past Harold was giving a statement for a hearing but I'm able to tie it up he's an executive board member so this has been with that title and has that authority otherwise in the bylaws but this is a more clear authority in the office but it doesn't have that definition of authority and do you have a question the cloud trust was to be the new trust when it was signed okay nothing's really changed anything that he's authorized or under the purchasing policy but by this resolution that they don't act with that if it's not you all have given us authorization under certain dollar limits so if it's within those if it's within that authorization I decide if it's exceeding the authorization then we can bring that back to you okay but to know what the contracts are for I mean here's what I'm concerned about just to know how if you have contracts out there for services development or construction do we see those or do we just allow you to if it's within the dollar regardless of what it is what was the dollar we bring anything to you that's over a hundred thousand dollars which these days it's recently you approved ahead of us signing our auditing contract at the end of the year we brought that to you and as we prepare we've got architecture agreements and construction agreements that are coming but that will come to you as well okay so I will say no more in the discussion we came around we have the emotion to the resolution I will go to the resolution for the 206 back in 2017 we moved by Mr. Marker Mr. Younger and others so that passes congratulations thank you for deciding to be here I'm here to keep on signing keep on signing well I'm like yeah I don't have to do check-day all the time I always do check-day is not fun sign 50 checks of the human I signed it sometimes it's a shorter so we're now at resolution 203.07 we have the interim director to see the outlets please do you want to talk about what we need to do still or this is related to yeah this is kind of your request we were recently we were recently buying for a grant requested explicit authorization it requested a documentation offer which was applied for the grant but it was fairly uncommon in my experience but this would make it really easy to just give an authorization yes this is a weird remark I think it was a big grant so pretty good and most of these when you're applying require forward authorization in this case it did and so we never are building so many programs at the stake right now and we are not ever sure what the requirement is that we wanted to go ahead and have coverage you all give me the ability to sign off a grant application because they will all be connected to projects you're aware of but it was just so weird being lots of it do you want to help this girl don't allow a thing you never care for me and hope they want an authorization for that this is a slightly different issue this is probably more similar to the issue we had on the city side where we during flood recovery when there was so much money coming around you all have to give me a blanket authority to do that this is more akin to that this is a slightly different issue and if we are successful in the received grant I would bring it up to you yes so if you have any other discussion on this do you have anything to add to that second okay resolution 23 resolution 24 so that means adoption of policies so let me start this so if you all remember this those of you who weren't here when we originally started engaging in conversations with the housing authority to enter into this relationship we went through a period of time where we were trying to figure out did we move everybody over did we not move everyone over and we were kind of heading down the road moving everyone over until we got to PERA and so PERA is the retirement system that the housing authority was part of and as we started going through entangling the PERA equation what we realized is that it would have been very expensive for us to move everyone over to city employees because you would have to buy out of the PERA contract because you still have retirees on the PERA system so that was a piece there in terms of their retirement system and evaluating that it's a 20 year under PERA it's 20 years you can retire and so we felt well because of the buyout cost you need to keep everyone we split it so those positions are included in the contract so the accounting position we're all city employees the housing authority members so property managers maintenance because this was already in the PERA systems they're still housing authority employees under PERA that's important because what comes out of it is they are not city and phone we then said they will follow all of the city and law and law policies and so a couple of things started happening when we redid our on-call policy it didn't make sense for the housing authority but the direction was there under our policies and I'll let them go over that more detail so that was a piece then under workers' compensation because they we have insurance on workers' compensation we've talked about working at source and others but it operates in a manner that is completely different than the city's workers' compensation policy which when we start doing things like re-share and how much we pay under the city's workers' compensation policy the insurance provider for workers' comp on the housing authority side we're not going to do that so we had to figure that piece out too and they cannot part of the city's workers' comp policy because they are not city employees which is built into that piece which would create issues for the city's workers' care here in terms of how it works so as a result of that now that I gave you a bit of the history Molly can talk about what we're having to do so we'll be working with HR going forward to figure out what works best to modify to be able to make this all work together so Lisa do you want to give a little bit of a background on the on-call we went to come over the city paid anybody who got called back or an on-call 2 hours minimum for us some nights we can have 3-4 calls so we'd be paying all that each time and it was not in our budget first of all and then our nature of work is so different because most of our calls are 10 minutes or less it's a lockout, a clogged toilet something minor, flipping a breaker so it did not align kind of budget wise to pay LHA employees under the city policy so we wanted to let you know that there's a deviation and the deviation there's a very specific reason there's a deviation we would like to build an on-call policy that we're probably going to have 2 categories in that on-call policy one piece is going to be forward calls like lockouts, minor things that take x amount of time and I think what do we say we should do here today? it's going to be a one-hour period instead of doing the 2-hour period we're going to do a one-hour period most of the times we on the city side when we call people out it's at least an hour and a half so the nature of our calls are going to be different and then we may have a second what would you say? did we put a second one in there? it's to include travel time as well and then if they get called back while they're already on a call or within 15 minutes it just adds to that all and then I think that's so it's a one-hour minimum versus a 2-hour minimum we may, I know we talked about this, I don't think she put it in there but we may consider if you have a water leak or something more significant maybe a 2-hour minimum just because they don't know what they're going to get into and so that's the basis there and then on the workers' comp side or on the workers' comp side that's going to be we're going to be reaching out to Zersa and try and figure out if there's something that can be more suitable for an LHVL that we're under the city and make this mesh better can I ask that a call back why do we decide to increase it up to an hour is because it's a big disruption of life for these maintenance guys I lived it for one weekend I did on-call I answered six calls in a weekend did lockouts, did dishwashers toilets, you name it but what really kind of made me see it was in the middle of the night when I got a lockout call from the sweets at three o'clock in the morning Monday morning so I drove the sweets unlocked the door got home and it's like four o'clock in the morning I got to get up in an hour you can't even rest or anything very disruptive kind of gave us a lot of insight because that happened the week before the CD so we had when the first transition to city policies we did bring that to new consideration so we will do the same when we get the direction we're going to need to go on these for recognition I just wanted to be transparent there isn't any difference there are contractual limitations there are issues to deal with what you'd be surprised it's a heads up so you're not sure like the full cost differential no and we have to figure it out but I have this conversation we've got to figure it out there's the right thing to do and there's using the monetary basis as a reason until we will figure that out sure I just wanted to understand why we are voting tonight well we're still learning we still have enough information do you need any discussion do you know so I want to jump in first I didn't see the development update I think it's so I want to start on development updates we have been as you know looking at the property in Northover and there's so as you go through the development of these projects we're on the front end of design but we're already starting to build the performance and when we start seeing early on we've already made two design changes and they're driven by financials so if you will remember the first time that we talked to you all about this the three bedrooms work on the edges like this and we're in a town home concept what we started realizing in the cost of that town home concept was slowing the performance out of the water and we couldn't financially pull it together so they gave us another option of stacked stacked flats which looks like on the exterior side a town home concept and that still accomplishes the same objective on this so we can scroll down we've got some coordinates to the west and the large and hard stuff yeah there will be three coordinates so this is Cook I don't know if you can see my cursor here over's over here 17th is down here and that's 18th along building 1 that's longer so where it starts getting even more interesting as we're looking at the financials on this if you can go to because one of the things we wanted to look at is the ability to bring other services into this location and so you'll see the blue here and the pink here and what we were talking about is one or the other would be library flex space and then the other one would be library space and the other would be early child space here's where the problems start coming into this project so this project is not in a qualified census tract which is a big deal because if it were in a qualified census tract or a DDA which is like a DRA but not like the DDA in the downtown authority you can actually include those spaces into the basis of the project so in this case you can't include those into the basis which means that you have to bring your own funding into the project for those activities so in this case beyond what the deficit is on the project there would have to be an additional $3 million to come in to build the early childhood space and to build the library space you can't build it in the finance of this project so we started trying to figure out well how do you bridge this gap and you have to deal with the fact that all of this has to be done by the time you come into the tax credit application which is a significant barrier to really try to wrap the hands around and that was just that data spread so we'll get to that so the early state is in August of this year the other challenge that's starting to show itself is when you look at the project and you go back to that other slide assuming that you don't have early childhood in the library in here and you just built units out and you had flex space for the residents there's a $4 million gap in the financing levels so if you add those other components in considering that it's not an equivalent to the financing level that's a $7 million gap that you have to figure out the $4 million gap is really due to the fact that it's not in a qualified census tract as well because the value of that is actually 3 to 4 million dollars so if this weren't in a qualified census tract we have no issues financially so we're at the point of if we want a library and a space in there how do we come up with funds to do it understanding how tight the budgets are on the city side if you want early childhood there are some grants that are out there whether or not they award them in time is another question that we're looking at and then we've got to really just break down this $4 million deficit before we're really going into the design so that's what we're working with the choices that we have are go ahead and move aggressively toward an August 2023 submittal into the LiTech ground but that almost means we have to pull the early childhood and the library pieces completely out of it because we won't know where we sit financially we won't propose until June and we won't be ready if it's flat space instead or is it going to be units instead it will be both it will be units in flat space for the building okay so it's possible that later after the building is financed and built and leased and stuff that flat space could be turned into child care or that's what we were hoping for that's what our idea was and the way that you come in with the investors and everything that's in place it's almost impossible to untangle that and so the other option that we talked about is splitting the project in two which February is the 9% deadline and so because if you split it in two then a small enough project we could qualify for the 9% tax credits the problem is there that if you fill that gap then you may not have enough to fill the other gap down the road and then which one goes first but for me the biggest thing that concerns me is when you look at the mobilization cost of a project is large I would think that you're probably adding anywhere from a half a million to a million dollars in mobilization cost if you split it up in two the other option that we just hit is we don't go for a 2023 tax credits in middle and we push it off until August of 2024 that gives us some time to try to pull these other components together but it kind of we're starting to really weigh issues in terms of what's more important do we want to try to get in because remember it's also really possible a lot of times on your first middle you don't get awarded so you need a second which may mean we're going in next year anyway if we don't get awarded but now we're trying to really figure out and this is why I wanted to talk to you all about it is housing is going to be the key if we drop some of these other components out of it I'm just going forward with this housing project which is a three-bedroom flat construction and then a traditional multi-family environment with one and two bedrooms in it about what, 89 89 units just know that you can't bring these other pieces along because of the way the finance you know, limits your ability to get in to that question because housing crisis I think going ahead with the plane no-frills solution is probably preferable but I'm wondering again grasping its straws here there's stuff around when there'll be an opportunity later to acquire I'm never building child care and library in it that's nearby across the street potentially it just makes making this sacrifice there's some land that's associated with the broader development just to the southwest behind sort of diagonal they have that oil change then you have the shop Starbucks there's a fairly large piece of land there I don't know what the market with the consulate be but what you're there would be the opportunity to do something like that so if I may add on just backing up to what our original goal was here because this is a housing authority property it's intended for housing what our original goal was is this because there's so many boxes checked already on this site it has some real things that are typically challenges that won't necessarily be for this project like public improvements and zoning and things like that that are already set in place so this was really if the city and LHA we're going to try and stretch our legs using ARPA funds for our one-time opportunity and to really see what a city and LHA partnership organizationally could bring into a project to really serve residents what would we do we would stretch our legs and do everything we can to pull out the best of both organizations and put it here and really make this the library and the early childhood center that would benefit these residents in a way that's not really out there and it'd be really something unique and quite amazing knowing we went in with several wish lists aspirational goals exploring pre-fab housing we've already determined that's really not a financial feasibility so we've already accessed that one then we're talking about our library at early childcare and trying to get larger units for families as we know that that is where our largest wait list they just sit there waiting and waiting those were our huge goals knowing that we probably weren't going to get all of them and so we were definitely at that point where we have to decide and at this point we're at the juncture where we decide to go all housing and still try and get our larger units or basically take the time to try and do the combo so I think we don't yet know if we'd transition it to all housing we don't know exactly how many units that would be yet but that's something that would be coming next we're going to have them run that model for us so we can see the two side by side but I just wanted to back into the history of what we were trying to do at this site knowing we would have some reality checks and we're basically there just in the context how would you consider this transformation housing we try to get into that and we have four different ways and we're told yeah this doesn't fit it's not a a lot of community it's very important and I don't know all about it already so it's about one of three and how do you get into you have to follow you have to get into the membership you don't have to go into the group maybe that may be a different one so there's one that's active now for transformational but we were basically told that this doesn't fit and we're probably going to have all of them out of the spit in the next two weeks so this was the natural marriage of our partnership obviously Dullo was there D.O. Inch was there we had a lot of information which they're going to send because why it's kind of information we don't apply we don't apply in August it's a 9% it's 4% so this is a 4% project or would we also consider 9% we're going to have to break it into two projects so it's a 4% August is the target what's the next window next August so it's just one piece it's annual and this is such a reach that it may not matter it may be just kind of irrelevant depending on what you decide to do we ought to at least be mindful that this early childhood proposal and this council I think is going to get a presentation isn't it? Matt Elkins is going to do a presentation where the alliance is where and just so you know you're up here listening to the studio I'll just give you a preview if that means the county commissioners both in Well County not all the commissioners involved have been through with a surprisingly receptive audience it was a very far more productive conversation than I would have anticipated and a very receptive and bolder although it was just two of three but the proposal is to put on the ballot on a ballot issue a question about creating a special early childhood district one question would be a mill levy that's the reason I we've been talking about mill levies and what's included and I will tell you that the number we're talking about in terms of new build up is probably the smallest number is four mills the four mills generates 45 plus a million dollars annually for early childhood and among the things that are laid out in the service is the potential to support capital projects not that the special districts would be taking the moment but they would be funding capital projects of others so depending on what we do here if that were to succeed we should be paying attention to that as an opportunity to fund projects like this just it may not happen but I hate that if we don't go in August I hate to miss the opportunity there's interesting things you could probably on your basis get early childhood in here but it can only serve the residents of the facility which I think operationally is I wouldn't do that because you may end up with 20 spots that you can't fill and you can't get with me just saying the immediate way to go if we wait a year then opportunities like that the other opportunity is well do we want to add one and a half million into the library number and the library cultural recreation tax but if we do all of those things then you're going to show housing out here and that's really the question is do we want to continue trying to hit this August or do we want to continue going forward and I think that's where we would like to be putting it back in your mind if you decide to wait there's some other things that might be material the other thing is this is a classic example of you heard me say this before this is market rate and interest rate eating everything alive right now so are you hoping that interest rates might be down in a year are you hoping that until we got our reports so those members that are part of the city's retirement we've all gotten we're going through our quarterly meetings and that and so here's what's happening in the market you know what they're telling us is I think everybody is projecting that trend down but inflation is not as fast as they would want and you know what they said in the media I was in is that we may be really in that resetting of interest rates in what is truly normal which is a 60 to 10% range which doesn't help and the other scary thing is when you're looking at inflation it will start to trend down the kind of spike and the last job number came out and showed that there were not enough people for the jobs that were created and in that meeting they said for every 1.8 jobs opened there's only one person to apply for it which means you're 0.2 down which also then tends to tell us that we're going to continue seeing this and she and this earlier just announced that they're going to add $1 billion to capital B to their wage structure for the coming year which just is everything telling you we're going to continue to be in this fight which means construction prices and commodity prices are going to continue moving so I don't think we're going to see this for me that says we're going to still have people who can't find a place to live and so we should hurry even if it's not as cool as we thought and we may hurry and still get to August and go oh crap we can't fill it yeah but do you all want us to stay on track for August knowing that we can come back and tell you that the performance will continue to give the best we can but do you want us to continue moving to August in this year knowing that we're going to have to sacrifice so there's a lot of options like there's no other way possibility that money would just come out of the sky and you know what I'm saying I just I mean so we are putting in for our child the Christina Val so obviously we think that's an equal deadline and they're going to award pretty fast so if we were to get that we would come back and go okay we're going to put this back in the struggle is not getting too far along in design but then we have to scrap and we go back as well so that's some of our timing challenges that we have to think about when we design housing units or developments I'm wondering if you could go backwards look at the grants that are available and then build it towards the grants almost like what would a transformational unit look like or develop and is there enough money to actually do that through those grants I don't know at that point so I'm saying what is that for what do we need to do to get it and the hard part is you're chasing so many targets so you're chasing the tax credits because the tax credits are really the bulk wouldn't you say Molly and so you may go after transformational and get sideways on the tax credit side yeah so the main feedback we got from the transformational group was that they're really looking for those projects that aren't really high tech and so we are and they don't want to because of the competitiveness of it and how much they've received they don't want to consider applications that don't already have a tax credit award okay that makes sense and this is my sell box that's I think the challenge we face in this is that in order to really get affordable housing you need tax credits in order to do it but then they go well we want transformational but not necessarily those that receive tax credits and so now all of a sudden we started it transformational in that childcare library but then all of a sudden the way they design these programs it's like what we don't fit it makes no sense in terms of how they're structuring some of these programs and I don't know about Molly it drives me crazy because you're like it's chicken and egg it's a chicken and egg situation because the tax credits want you to have specifically if we were going to do a CE and library you have to go in with a funding but then for transformational you don't want that same story with the QCT that's frustrating too it would be so simple if you said here's what we want to do and we're going to design it so we want to go into tax credit and if we don't get it we're just going to convert it to humans they don't let you sort of build those real time adjustments that frankly on the market right side you could do so I think in going forward can we have every commissioner to state what we want what direction we want to sure I believe we should move forward but also with the intention that I know I'm a dreamer but believing that somehow we can get the funding for the child care and I mean we still don't know what's going to happen with the university the child care is actually the funding for that so that's a great possibility too so I think we'll move forward for the August of this year with the intentions and I understand that we will have to dismantle if we can't get the money but I have faith I believe in you all I don't even know what will make it happen I believe it that we're going to have the library I just believe it so anyway I'll say move forward I wish I had my butt straight this year there's a point there's a point where continuing to spend time and effort that you're going to look at potentially retrospectively that was a we just wasted six months and we could have been pursuing other possibilities there's a threshold there where if it's not if maybe there were there now we maybe there right now even as you anticipate August I would hate to there's just not enough time or enough people to go around on this and it's finally on YouTube because you're going to the opportunity costs are going to be pretty substantial we're pretty close so I would say if we're I would say go for it as much as it would break my heart to not see the library in child care facilities how we're big or small as part of this project it's unlimited to residents would be an un-starter you have to have it more accessible and I think March is right the cost of housing is such that you no longer we wait so I'd say go for it until you get to the point where it's like they waste the time I wouldn't want you to waste time because we said go for it when you know it's getting I think there's a path forward I'm just I don't know I think there's a path forward on the housing it just made a looking slightly different but yeah there will be a point where we just go the gaps too big can't do it can we have to figure something else out the gap is big regardless so even filling that by August we have to really which is why the previous conversation where you gave us the ability to do some things if we could do those things then that may be a partial gap filler yeah yeah yeah I just in my former life the rule was always don't elaborate too many features too early you know solve the simple problem get the minimum viable product minimum viable product as soon as possible reduces human suffering the longer the most so that's where I am we can look at adding features some of the time down the road across the street, whatever when would you know that you know how deeply to do the project when you say you know this isn't viable do you know how the library needs healthcare just yes yeah yeah so when you would come back to us you wouldn't try to make this happen then come back to August you wouldn't come back to us early on if you all say go for it today and if you have to give them the childcare and other stuff then you would make those decisions real time when I see you here we can't bridge the $4 million gap okay the development partners they would like us to choose a direction at this point they're sending meals too the more assigned we do yeah so no I mean I think move forward the I or E perhaps I don't want to go back so I agree we don't want to come see what we do but I'm going to say I'm just kidding no no this is the real time I appreciate your direction this is real time I mean this started Wednesday last week and we had a call this morning which is like we've got to ask you so thank you for not taking it down the road yeah yeah we can't and then I think other development Zinnia's moving along they're on track for closing in May there's a lot of moving pieces getting there the one thing I do want to tell you about that but I think is getting lost in the conversation is Zinnia's permanent support housing and the mayor actually made me think about this the other day and I think we don't do we don't talk about it enough that you know permanent support housing is an option for the unhoused in our community because it is you know the percentage of people in the streets that we move to be unhoused into you probably 8% right now so when we talk about housing solutions for those that are unhoused those 55 units are really tangible connection to our community and the chair there asked me a question and I went oh wait I have to talk about it so we're going to do more about open guitar that in addition to just talking about the permanent supportive and I talked about it but have and it's popular but there's things about the design right it's what trauma-informed design thank you for the term we should talk about that because the streets doesn't have a good reputation this is not trauma-informed Zinnia so it would be it would be great for everybody to know we're thinking about that we actually just signed an MOU with University of Denver to do some research on trauma-informed design at the streets so cool and that's happened since I've been using it you've made a job it's little things that we're going to partner with them they're going to come in and study residents management and be able to help us do stuff and then they're going to be able to take their research into broader projects excellent get grant money out of it we are so we're on update on operations we all get a little piece of the pie let's go to the age receivables first oh nice okay so you're going to see an increase from the last quarter report to this quarter report because of the math units and the biocasurage unit we do add those costs to rebuild those units to the tenant those are going to collections so that's as we go neighborhood ball river and the streets have two big units with math that were almost close to $500,000 there's no local collectively probably not but if we don't get it on the ledger and show what we were finding as that wasn't happening and then these people are coming back to us we're housing them again and running into issues so we need to make sure we document them so those are going we had 46 past due to that and it's more than 70,000 dollars in total that is actually for past two tenants for our properties so that's where we stand on the age receivables the financials are all submitted to the auditors for all of our property audits I kind of highlighted where we went over almost every single property we were over on vacancies based on what we budgeted and where we ended the only one that was still online wasn't the first one but all other properties we were over were in vacancies and when we don't have money coming in for those vacancies we're also losing about 20s from those properties as well so the change condition on that here remember when we went over to the budget this time we couldn't get it all in and did all the analysis to ensure this didn't happen to the rest of our deal people yeah I think we're going to start also tracking those units closer to see where they're at and what's actually happening is it appliances is it the wait list where are struggles with these units not getting occupied yeah so we're going to start tracking that and I can bring that on a quarterly basis you can probably bring that on a quarterly basis yeah so there were a couple properties that had utilities that were over a lot of that was probably related to their gas prices going up and we're going to know if that was the next year or two because I don't think we've got to increase people through the budget and we're going to really enlarge increases in January so that's definitely going to start increasing maintenance expenses those are only that usually related to the snow removal we had 20 plus snow events which we're kind of re-evaluating and maybe possibly getting our own trucks in-house that we won't be able to actually build back to the properties and have a better perform on the property level and also bring them back we'll let us cover the gas bill or some of the other things and then January is not off to a good start either and so I did talk to Jim so you know how this works so I'm not on both sides of the equation you know that with cash and jamb you know there's ways for us to get at least one not two trucks and one a little I call it snow carts where you can drive around and get and with the trucks in the other piece we'll let it work a deal where we can pay that back over time so we don't have to fully front the capital this year and we think hopefully we can get that done so that we can start relieving some of the pressure on what their charges are snowing but we've got to get that ongoing payback accomplished so that it doesn't create another financial issue and we spent over $200,000 that's going on and you now are one of the public sanctuaries with electric trucks and I'll be your scientist actually there's like an F-250 that's about to come off in another one and instead of auctioning one of them we're going to try to transfer another one we're going to try to buy out early as we're transitioning some of those trucks in so that we can start doing it ourselves so what do you work far off in terms of what we're doing just to clarify so we've got 46 residents that on average are $10,200 in arrears yes and I'm sure that varies do we have a workout plan with each of those so that is so what's happening with that is the property manager start so when they're evicted a lot of them is usually due to erections so it could be lawyer costs or court costs that get transferred they try to reach out at a lot of times so you're getting the mail back so they do that for 90 days and then we'll start sending it to collections we'll analyze it after they've done those 90 day letters and say is it worth going to collections where do you think this person is if not we'll write it off otherwise we're going to try to send it to collections is there a point what is that trigger by the time somebody gets this far behind well I think you would have to probably speak to that at what point does this notice happen to these tenants you know what I'm saying so if they are in arrears on rent if it's rent they're getting notices by the time of the month on the 8th you have a paint red and then that's turning over to court sometimes we have to serve a second 10 days a following I don't think that's courts are closed the attorney couldn't get to us because we had higher priority cases so they're getting notice if it's for rent 2 days after rent's late it's mess units stuff like that that we don't have to accumulate across to after move out they start getting their 30 day notice and 60 day notice and 90 day notice and we're trying to track them down but most of the time those contacts are no longer good it's catching their money before they move out that's useful we have been able to sign some payment arrangements in court so I did get one payment arrangement on the court docket they were behind about $10,000 during the whole COVID thing and so the judge made them sign a payment plan in the court room the part of this is when you look at some of these folks who remember in COVID they didn't have you couldn't bill on evictions and not payment things like that so I'm sure I'm not hearing that they're allowing to have significant balances and I think the big part is that well that and the extra money is running out so the money that they might have been getting from other agencies during the COVID time period is running out so those pre-payments that they may have received for the thousands of dollars to take care of a few months ahead those pre-payments are starting to run out they were having fun with the money they're still paying I don't want to say that but we got a lot of people who got the Iraq money who got back rent also got a future right to it so if they were working and then that money's ran out so also that's not to get about hood and diligence it's a long process that you have to go through in the court system to make sure that the housing authority did the part in providing due diligence for attendance so that takes a long time to notice and like you said trying to catch up with them too it's takes a while good children you probably got the majority of the students about 270 270,000 between court costs and math and the biohazard unit as well 6,000 for that the biohazard unit so a lot of that money is those remits so most of the ones that are probably over in rent or they may be left and the unit was immense it's probably in the most like $500 or $3,000 plus if you say 3 months ran by the time you get them to court and get them out which takes a considerable number of months to process I'm sure if right now even after we get the eviction granted I try to schedule two evictions today and they're not in the end of March so we gotta just hold on for another 40 days I didn't go on to the court not on court for security and stuff like that we are turning on the HCD side we are turning 4 over to law enforcement for fraud yes and if they all enter the housing vouchers if it's project based or voucher we report it to EIV and so if they try to get assistance someplace else that comes up and it stops they can't get assistance someplace else so we are turning the voucher to court so currently as of February 1 we were at 110 vouchers we had an additional 21 that actually 24-5 that were on in stages of either getting their readings done getting their vouchers issued and that would be for housing so we have 435 total vouchers we also have court and vouchers of 11 we have decided to award those vouchers into our program mainly because we were hoping to always get to 420 and we were never able to reach 420 and we have more money coming in so there was an act that was providing young money to the housing authorities due to inflation and everything like that we're looking probably at a 7.5% increase so HUD is asking us to start looking at our 2-year tool now and see where we need to go so we're going to take a look at that and see if we can add more but we wanted to make sure those portends aren't given and unfortunately we've exhausted weightless we just never could reach that 4.5 getting them all eased up at one time we have 60 days to give another 30 days and live another 30 days so you're talking 4 months before they get eased up so by the time you can get people moving off trying to get them eased up so I think that if we have over 11 so that brings us up to 420 and we still have 20 million people living so I think we're on a good track and a lot of people out there are looking right now So there's something I'm going to relate to previous conversation in terms of what we talked about on the tax exemption and giving us the first call for our voucher holders the preference is kind of hard but what are the dynamics that's in play as we've talked about how it's hard for people to get vouchers to find locations to get housing with the voucher it's hard the interesting thing that we started actually actively talking about and I'm going to try to get some more information on this one of the things that we know is that there's an agreement that the Longmont Housing Authority had with older housing partners and with older housing authority that if their voucher holders come into Longmont we don't have the automatic hoarding piece and so they still manage the vouchers which I think we're seeing a press because Longmont's the most affordable community of Boulder County and if a number of their voucher holders are getting them in other locations and they're coming in getting units here that's pressing our voucher holders and then they're not pouring open which is not even going to allow them to pour it open and I think I give the agreement and I understand it but the job you all want me to do is look after the financial interest in this organization and I think we're going to have to begin to this conversation a little bit and engage in a real conversation with those other groups just because I think there's a local impact and they probably don't necessarily agree with this but I'm trying to figure out how we really get the financial solvency in this organization to a different level don't know what that means just know that I'm going to start working Longmont and try to figure it out and understand what the loss is and try to figure out how we can get some more rather than coming in but they turn into some conversation and that would be with Boulder County and with Boulder Housing and the same place to us because we have some that go to Boulder so we've got a lot of our clients outside of the city so I'm going to want to see how many go outside and start really doing a data analysis on it to go are we in the positive or are we in the negative and if we're in the negative then maybe there's a conversation if we're in the positive but I want you to know what we're going to start working on because we don't know what's going to look like but we need to look at it with Boulder County and Boulder Housing and Longmont the Landlord Assurance Fund so you're hoping that with this Landlord Assurance Fund if a voucher person moves out and there's damages that they have up to $5,000 that they can put in a claim to cover some of those damages that insurance doesn't cover and there's requirements under that but we're trying to make this more appealable to more Landlords so that's one of the ways that we're trying to do that so was that that's me so so the idea of this report voucher report property updates so for the occupancy and the property updates make it brief we're holding at 93% occupied we do have a whole bunch of not a whole bunch but a lot of movements scheduled for ending weather we found that trying to release units this time of year is very hard especially with seniors nobody wants to move they're saying oh in the spring in the spring when it's warmer I don't want to move right now so it's adding to the vacancy but we have Fall River, Aspen Senior and Village Place waitlist open and so we're getting a lot of agencies who are helping people apply to move immediately so we've got people from home and the senior center who are really helping push people to apply who are looking for immediate housing so that's our, we have two coming in to Fall River this month we've got quite a few out the suites so that will help out for next month some numbers the down units just a quick update on that the suites we still have quite a few down 7312 which was one of our meth units it was involved in the flood last week so that one and the two units below it are now part of a flood plane one was just 7114 was vacant for 270 days the guy moved in on the same night so we're working through that Aspen Senior they've had a meth unit down for 290 days it's scheduled to be completed at the end of this month and Aspen neighborhood we have a meth unit there we're trying to work out a plan to figure out how to get that one back online because insurance will not cover that one as we already exceeded our plane limits for that year for property updates activities that are started up again these residents are having a blast let me just say they have four properties have Irish dancers coming in for March I just got requests for the birthday parties are all back in swing at all the properties popping conversations are starting back up this month with the residents and we've been able to fill most of our vacancies for staff so the suites we hired one building attendant that's doing the weeknights we have two more starting next week that will cover the weekends and that's taking the place of security so we will have almost around the clock somebody at the suites walk in the halls cleaning the property helping with maintenance it's been huge there at the Spring Creek Fall River we had a management vacancy residents are loving him so off to a great start this year the cost of insurance was in probably the system issues it went up it went up generally though too not just this there were several factors in the insurance one is that you were finding that they weren't increasing the insurance rates every year if you did have a total loss you wouldn't be able to rebuild so we are gradually getting some of those properties up to that level and when you do that your insurance is going to increase along with percent of loss ratio so depending on how much is in that bucket if they diminish that which is like what happened with the lodge and Hearthstone when they had that fire insurance price because we wiped out the the money that we had been paying that got wiped out from that loss and I imagine next year all the meth units I mean the Sweets has actually already had three bills in all of Georgia and that's because there's two things happening there one is all of a sudden it's going on at the Sweets and there are two bills being out for about $20,000 for then inhaled which you have to do buy that policy for that and that's $20,000 just to do that so with the meth detectors would that add to you know like when you get certain things in your house for insurance then the insurance either goes down or would that help at all with the insurance? Well I think it's going to be a talk, it's kind of going to be like as you start to do the testing we haven't done the testing on some of these units that we don't know what it's going to test at we do have a clause in our insurance policy that is there's a $100,000 gap per year for a loss to smoke or meth or product I guess it's an entire product So you hit that with two significant claims we're out of insurance so at least we're trying to figure out how we do it we haven't evaded literally we're talking about well I know we have master electricians here we have folks here almost taking at least three models to have a city bill day so we're we can help facilitate this so I can make my law literally on some of these because if you were to just contract that out I think it's a habitat model for some of this so you get two significant claims on a property and your test and I imagine we'll be there for the suites too this was the last one I was saying and they don't have much of a reserve but we're going to hit the suites so we think that it's too early to tell the insurance companies aren't adjusting to I don't know if the meth detecters are in the US yet and so we've had conversations with them trying to say it's a competitive measure even if there's a spike it should go down over time but it's an underwriting thing they're just not used to it they haven't faced this yet so so is there anything else so this is serious first public health and safety update yes so I was blessed with two big projects cameras on all properties finding um we already have three bids for cameras but we need to determine where we want them and externally internally all of that um that's moving pretty fast and it looks like due to some of the things that we've seen with the NOAA cameras that that's probably going to be our best bet the other bids aren't off the table but just looking at the quality and what we'll get with the NOAA cameras um I think you will see the big difference in the following so I should have that wrapped up by the end of next week as far as locations and needs and I'll bring it back to this group and we'll follow up um math detectors we are in the middle of that too we are basically trying to determine um their system is compliant with ours so without getting into the leads of a lot of things that I'm learning um we have to make sure it's um E911 compliant with SIM cards um we have this company out in New Zealand is sending us their device so we are going to test the SIM card when we get it and thank goodness for that we'll ask for the Ballard Doctor for holding your hand a little bit um so that is moving pretty quick too and at this point we're having weekly meetings with the representative from New Zealand and the housing development we're trying to we're trying to get that information um because they have some policies and things that we'd like to see that they've already you know vibrated and we can review some things and talk to them about what's worked what hasn't worked et cetera so that's moving forward pretty fast so real quick the issue is the SIM card an issue is it doesn't work with the LTE network we're building um but they've agreed to put it into development for next year so that going forward they will have an option for the privately owned LTE networks and it won't be an issue but it's an ongoing cost issue if they don't do it and so that's what there's been dealing with and that cost would be a lot like for the numbers out there and as a work in progress for sure I talked to Lisa and Harold and Molly about setting up the time for me to attend all the coffee conversations and not just I wouldn't be the guest speaker all the time but just when questions come up for residents regarding public health safety issues like that I would probably be there um we're going to start with the suites beginning of March doing that on my plate is also reviewing Zinnia and Christmas to as far as sected recommendations and I do that with planning and development currently with normal type family so we provide the recommendations and the it's not anything we have done so they either take our recommendations or they don't um we've seen it I've seen much success in the last maybe five to six years with our multi-family bill to make them taking our recommendations so that's a very good thing and last but not least um our calls for service remain relatively low for all the LHA properties um I plan on to staff here about how we want to bring that information forward to you as far as maybe a quarterly update on calls for service a little bit more detail um so working on that any discussion for Sarah? You shouldn't recognize Sarah with that bad It's a lot You look like a civilian tonight Well now we'll say bringing Sarah on doing this lets us shift and move people and we have a tenant issue that um owns Waringly's out that's bringing Sarah into the tenant issue to measure waters had experience with this tenant from his families on the board but it just shifts the nature of the conversation and how you can do it it's given us capacity to deal with issues at a different level and frankly give people some breaks because um that is something I'm starting to really watch just generally about staff is when we have this conversation about kind of separate meaning there are and you'll hear me talk about this in the retreat but we're seeing uniformly that people not people are concerned about their mental health they're concerned about their work and what they're having to deal with so we're going to start really taking a more active role with the entire LHA staff in terms of working on the tenant bringing people in that can tell people how do you build your own mental health, how do you deal with issues? Who do you talk to? How do you utilize peer support? Because if you saw the issues they deal with on a daily basis um and I would honestly say some of the issues they deal with is not that different than probably what Sarah has seen in the capacity of a law enforcement officer which you're almost expecting that from their job so there's another operational component that we're starting to really talk about in terms of taking great work great teams We need an in-house therapist Don't we all have to say I do have to support but Harold is saying you wouldn't think that people running rental properties would have so much access to traumatic incidents and things that can give you PTSD it is it's intense I wouldn't believe that well and that's part of it so Sarah has a mouse there are certain things that it's probably primarily the two of us dealing with I've had to have conversations with each one of them are you prepared to see this are you okay with seeing this because if they're not that's where we have to start sliding in to support each other and imagine what this is it's a it's a it's learned a lot so they're great, they're fabulous they're doing awesome job and I think you're starting to see where we're starting to get we're starting to run and sometimes you need to keep them from springing because I don't need everybody to warm up yeah we're doing great they'll do for quite a while so where are your comments what are your what are your I have a question we've got this other project out by FOSCO that for technical reasons I have a special interest in when does that come to us for a project this way we're still waiting on the planning and engineering design to come back to us we came back and sent it back to us hoping it's in the near future it better be because we have applications out for grant funds but I would expect it in a couple of weeks they got it back but they had to deal with some technical questions so so who else for the first word of design it's close so so what we should we should although we're doing a journey hi hello hello