 Thanks, Ryan. Have a wonderful day. You too. Okay everyone, let's go ahead and just kick off this session for the onboarding task force. And so as I said, Bobby's not going to be able to join us today. But she did post a framework that we could maybe take a look at today and then we can also talk about the mentorships that have been submitted last week and go through that if you'd like. So let's go ahead and first I'll pull up the, and I would assume we're talking about onboarding this week, you know, after last week we kind of got out of sync. So David, what are your thoughts around which portion we're covering this week? Yeah, I'd definitely like to talk about the onboarding, especially because there's a mentorship proposal on there and I had some thoughts on that. So yeah, and then if you want to use the second half of the call for the documentation stuff, feel free. Great, let's do that then. That sounds perfect. Okay, so I'm just going to pull this up here on the right tab here, onboarding task force. Here I have a couple links I can drop if these are what you're looking for. Here's the mentorship, excuse me, yeah, thanks. Yeah, so here I'll drop the links. These were the two things I saw. One was the mentorship proposal and the other was what Bobby had posted on the wiki. Yeah, so let's look at Bobby's first. Let me try one more time here because it seemed like it cut out my mic when I shared it. Let me try one more time. Does that bring me back in the audio now? Yeah, I hear you. Okay, great. Yeah, I just had to do that setting to put it back through there. Okay, great. Now we're good. Okay, so we can kind of just look at this here. And this is a run through of kind of what the agenda should be for today as far as the onboarding process. And then I will say that last week I did submit to the mentorship program my take on what we should look at for the onboarding documentation. And I'd like to go through that as well. David, I know I posted it, but I don't know the link. So maybe if you could pull that up, I would go. Yeah, I dropped the link in the chat. That's the first link I put in there. Okay, perfect. So here are the tasks that we should look at for the onboarding process. And let's just make sure we're in agreement that these look like there's other tasks we want to accomplish by this task force. So basically, okay, go ahead, David. Sorry, I didn't mean to go. So basically we want to look at what is the current onboarding process and make sure that, you know, the existing process is, you know, as clean as possible. And look at what documentation and tutorials and resources we have for people to disjoin the community. So that's something that, you know, I'm glad to engage with. And I don't know if Jim Soldin is going to join the call today, but, you know, he indicated he had an interest in working on the onboarding process as well. And then, Peter, what are your thoughts around going through and doing kind of an assessment of what we have today? And Peter might be just on mute here. So I'm going to keep going. But Peter, if you come off mute, feel free to join in. And Elizabeth, you're welcome to join in, too, if you want to go through and do an assessment of the current onboarding process, if that's of interest to you. For me, as a human factors engineer, I can say that the last time I checked the average compensation rate for completing a survey or completing a survey or interview by a user and user experience testing was $70 minimum and $110 per hour. So I wonder if Linux Foundation or Hyperlegion Foundation is going to be paying that to the participants. I don't have any thoughts that Hyperlegion is going to be paying for anyone here that's part of this group to, you know, review and do anything with respect to the documentation. And the only thing that would be available is if the mentorship program is accepted by the Hyperlegion TOC. I know that there is a stipend for ones that are accepted fully into the mentorship program. But, you know, I wouldn't view this as any type of item that's going to be, you know, highly compensated for trying to work on this documentation. I think that's fair. The mentorship program is paid. But yeah, in general, I think, you know, just taking part in the task force and stuff wouldn't be. And in general, I think assessing is great. I mean, that's what I think the task force should be doing. You know, in some ways, I think that assessment process, we don't know what that necessarily looks like. So I think all these other tasks out here are maybe depending on what comes up with the assessment, these other tasks may look different. And I think it's an interesting example of how we've had these different approaches to onboarding in the past. And I was really hoping that we could get some people from Start Here involved, because they have a very different take on the different tasks that they think are needed. And that was what I was hoping to do instead of doing things separately, kind of in parallel. Like my understanding from what Start Here is trying to do is not necessarily to create more content or create more guides, but to aggregate what's out there so it's easier to find, you know, so they have just, I think, a different approach. And so, you know, I think that was one feedback I had on this. Like, I know they had a mentorship program project accepted last year. And I didn't see them listed as a mentor on this one. So I think it's, personally, I think it's critical if we do another mentorship one this year to not again do it separately from them. But I don't know if they're interested in being a mentor as well on this, so we can kind of combine efforts. And again, I think their approach last year was very different. They had a developer, instead of having somebody develop or create documentation, they had more of a coder come in. Like Start Here is all about aggregating what's already in the community. So there's one place to go. And so I think, again, that's just a different approach. Like what I read here, when Bobby has put some thought in here, it sounds like she's talking about creating a lot of new content. But in some sense, I personally think a lot of that content already exists. Like each project, for example, has a contributing guide. I think it's just hard for people to find them, right? Like, to get from the hyperledger homepage or the wiki homepage to like the cacti, you know, contributor guide, it's several clicks, right? Like, so I think it's more of a workflow or a traffic flow diagram. I think I'd said this on a last call. Like I don't think we necessarily need to make new guides. I think we need to make it easier to find the guides that are there. So again, that I think that speaks to we, we as a group haven't come together and assess the current situation and created like a recommendation for what to do. So I mean, I think it's great that Bobby put this in place as a kind of a pass at what she recommends. But I think different people maybe have different views on what's needed. So that was my one of my main concerns about the mentorship thing is I just don't know what we're asking that person to do yet because I don't think we as a task force have landed on, hey, this is the set of things we think need to get done with onboarding, right? Because again, start here has a different approach. Bobby has this approach. I maybe have a different approach around the traffic. You know, I think it's all about just kind of traffic diagramming and kind of tweaking the flow of traffic. So that was my main thought. Like it's, I don't think we as a group have necessarily landed on what the tasks should be because we haven't done this first task, the assess. Okay, now that's a very clear and articulate observation, David. And I concur with you. So let's take a look at what I submitted to the mentorship program. And then maybe that'll give us more clarity on talking about what we're looking at here. So basically, David, I think I took more of an approach similar to what you are talking about here with consolidating the existing resources and making them easy to discover within the start here framework. And so that's kind of what I put in the description here. And the way I looked at this going forward. And when you talk about a coder, are you talking about more of a UI UX coder? Or are you talking about, you know, a different type of coder for the mentorship program? Well, again, that's why I think it would be great to have somebody involved and start here to speak about what they've done. And I guess we could pull up their proposal, their project from last year, if I could find it. But yeah, my understanding is they had like a UX person doing stuff, like I met with them a couple of times, and kind of got a sense of what they're doing. And it was, yeah, they did, they were working on mockups. And I don't know, well, we really need a rune or somebody from start here to tell us what they ended up doing. But he did present a couple of times to me like a bunch of mockups for what they wanted to do with the start here site. So I think it was really taking those mockups and like coding them into the site. So that's why I was thinking it's not for their point of view, it's not necessarily a documentation project, but a coding project. But I mean, maybe that was my that was my main thought, like, I would say we need, if we're doing something, a mentorship project that involves start here, we really need somebody from start here to also be a mentor would be my I agree. 100%. David. And I couldn't agree with you more. I did reach out to a room about start here. They did great. And I did not hear back from him. But I am glad to reach out to him again to see if he would like to collaborate. Does that make sense? Great. And I can ping him to you know, maybe that's an action we can both take. I'll ping him, you ping him. Because maybe there's still time for him to, you know, join as a mentor or find somebody else to join as a mentor and give some thoughts on what that, you know, mentee should do. Yeah. And the thing is, David, you know, I'm glad to keep moving this forward. We ran up against a hard deadline. No, of course, of course. I'm a guy that just, you know, no matter what, I hit the deadline for any project that has to go out the door by deadline, rather than be the guy that comes in after the deadline as well. I'd really like to be a part of this. And you missed it. You know, missed the deadline. So, you know, I'm deadline driven. And I, you know, didn't get any feedback on what I had written up here for moving this project forward. But I knew it was critical that we move the project forward. So what I could, based on only one person's vision of what we need to do to move forward. Yeah, 100%. No, and I think that was the right approach. And thank you for doing that. Like you said, at least, at least we're there by the deadline versus us talking today and saying, oh, maybe we wouldn't be great if we'd got it in by the deadline. So this is perfect. And Min has said that there's time to, you know, add mentors and tweak and stuff before the TSC reviews. I think now is the perfect time. So yeah, I'll reach out to Arun. You reach out to Arun. And hopefully we get him to take a look at it and, you know, give us his feedback. Okay, great. Yeah, that sounds good. I'll reach out to him after we wrap up this call. And I'll send him a copy of what we put together here. And, you know, what I really try to do is just say, okay, what we're going to focus on is the start here. Because I know, David, that's, you know, where we're going to get the most value. And there's the most development already in place for that, you know, framework on the Hyperledger website. And then, you know, try to give some learning objectives for whoever's going to be involved in this mentorship program. And really, I think it's a great opportunity for them to get introduced to a lot of people in the community and really to build their skill sets. I didn't put a lot in here about UX and UI development, but I will be more than glad to add that in. Yeah, and maybe that work's already done from last year. I mean, this is where I don't, this is where I don't know enough about where that mentorship project last year ended. Maybe they have it all and they don't need to do more of that. And it's really just something else. So yeah, I mean, I would think Arun hopefully can take a look at it and get back to us. Yeah. And part of that design I put down is number three, where we talked about personas. You know, is this a person who's a business analyst, or is this a person who's a core developer or maintainer? And then, you know, look at process flow diagrams as well. So basically, you know, saying, okay, well, here's our existing UI, you know, does it flow and is it easy to discover things? Just like you talked about three clicks to get down into some of the documentation. You know, if we could surface that where you're only, you know, one click away when you're in the start here, that would be good for, you know, onboarding people. For sure. For sure. And to go back to what Bobby's document says, I mean, I think everything on there is great. Like I think if there's missing guides, I mean, if some of that content is missing, let's certainly work on it. But yeah, I think until we do the assessment, it's hard to know what's missing yet. So I don't think we necessarily, we may or may not need to create a bunch of new content. It might just be more aggregating. I guess that was my main thought on what she put together. But everything she mentions here is great. Like, we should do all these things. But I think some of these may already be in place. Yeah. And the thing is, David, I do not want to reinvent the wheel when there's been a lot of hard work and effort and quality work put in. I just want to make things easily discoverable to the new person, to the community. Yeah, I agree. I think that's a challenge. Yeah, there's hyperlators big and confusing for a new person. And if we do find holes in what, you know, should be out there over time, then let's go ahead and fill those holes. But I view those holes as small, not anything substantial that we would have to create. That makes sense. Yeah, for sure. Okay. So basically, you know, here's the expected outcome that I identified here is, you know, update the hyperledger onboarding documentation and the start here guide so that they can, you know, get a quicker and deeper understanding of hyperledger blockchain projects and technology. And I think, you know, this is going back to the personas again where we can say, you know, somebody going to be a developer, maybe a maintainer, or somebody going to be a business person looking for a solution using hyperledger technology for their enterprise. And, you know, here's some more of this content and graphics. I think that's more UI stuff again. And then mentee skills. So this might be needing to be updated as well, David. So, you know, strong UA UX coding experience. And I think what we should do is pull up last year to start here mentorship program because, you know, we want to move some of that content over here as well. Yeah, that's a good point. I was kind of scanning through the 2022 ones. Let me see if I can find it. And then when you find that, then we can pull it up. But and then right now, you know, mentors names and contact information, I only put myself down because I didn't receive feedback from anyone. So I didn't want to commit them to it. Yeah, I wish, you know, I wish we had had a response. But yeah, I mean, we can still add them. There's certainly still time. So not a problem. So what I'm saying, David, is, you know, that's an open ended mentorship list. So anybody on this call, or anybody else from the community who wants to join is be part of this mentorship. I'm all in favor of adding them to names for the mentorship. And you hear me now? Maybe I hear you now. Yes. Sorry. Linux microphone drivers are bad. I was listening. And things one, yes, I will be happy to join as a mentor there. Oh, great. I'm hosting the daily pair programming calls for cacti anyway, which is a quick 15 minute meeting that goes every weekday morning. And I am thinking for the mentorship, any any mentorship projects that where I am a mentor, I will just tell the mentees that they can come in because that pair programming call is more like an open office kind of thing that teachers do in school where you can just come in with any sort of question that you have. So I'm happy to contribute that time of mine, for example. And then the other thing I wanted to say is regarding what David was saying about the number of clicks it takes to get to certain specific things, I can volunteer to do some analysis on how many clicks does it take from hyperledger.org to get to each projects, each top little projects, contributing guide and getting started guide. Yeah, that could be really useful. Yeah. And then the objective metric of the task of the mentee would be reduce those number of clicks by whatever. Sure. Yeah, I think that yeah, I mean that could be something that could be really useful as document and that I guess would be the assessment document for Project X it took X many clicks and so the question I have for you David is are we free to edit what was submitted on the 15th at this point or how is that viewed at this point? My understanding is there is some time, a little bit of time. I think and again I'm not 100% sure I'd have to go with double check with the email that men sent me. I think the TOC has two weeks to review and I don't think they're due to complete the review by the third until the 30th I think. It is deferative. I know because I'm on that committee as well. Oh great, great. So I think as long as we give the TOC members a heads up that maybe if they've already looked at it, hey we just updated it look again. So I think I would say we have a small window to update it and then I think if we do it by sometime this week they would still have next week to review and we can just give people a heads up like hey we made some changes just so they know. Okay that's perfect so. The men definitely did say it's okay to add mentors and I think we can tweak. Yeah no problem David and you know I just want to do everything in line with expectation and what's proper and fitting. Peter would you want to go in and just edit this page and add any additional content that you think is relevant? Add your name to the list and then would you notify the TOC that we're making some tweaks to it this week and it's going to be done within the next couple days? Yes, I will add the table with the number of clicks for each top level project and then that way we can clarify for the mentee that that's what needs to be optimized. Yeah and that could even be something the mentee does if you just do one project as an example maybe expanding on that is something the mentee could do but yeah if you have that data for all of them that's great but I think that's a very tangible thing and then maybe that speaks to what John you were saying about the skills maybe we can say in there somebody who's familiar with you know you know website usability or whatever they kind of speak to how do we tweak and optimize the flow of the web you know the different websites. Right yeah I definitely you know made them lower level here but I can definitely add in you know UI UX experience and things like that you know I want to make sure that we got a good skilled person to work on this but I also want to make it you know open so we get somebody to join up as well you know don't be overly restrictive on it. That's great yeah and if that would that would be a very real tangible thing if they could shave off one or two clicks for each of the projects that would be really valuable. Oh I agree David yeah and if we can make the bottom of the funnel that closer to the top of the funnel I'm all for it. Nice. Okay let's take a look maybe at the last year's mentorship that Arun was a part of. Sorry Elizabeth what? Before you leave this page where it says I think it's supposed to say any skills around research and documentation. It's one of the purposes to make the onboarding skill for mentees the application form more let's see so that they like I said the last time I was on this call so that somebody applying for it to be a mentee would know exactly what would be so you don't get 3,000 applications for the same thing and knowing that only you know 10 of them actually see it says no experience required that's sort unrealistic. Yeah what I'm saying is they have to be an open source contributor prior to today so if we have somebody who may be a college student and they've never done anything in the open source community I didn't want that to be a barrier to someone joining the project that makes sense and David if I'm wrong in my couching of that framework let me know. No I think that sounds fine to me. Yeah if they haven't done anything in the open source community they can still join up and we'll welcome them in. Okay so am I too being led to expect that if someone applied for this position and they do have skill any skills is that supposed to be any skills around research and documentation and if those skills did include the ability to write documentation content and design and develop explainer graphs would they for sure get a mentorship stipend or would they be in the pool for a then that that would be they would be chosen because there are only a certain number of stipends available. Yeah there's only a certain number I mean that's gotta be that's gotta be told up front because there are people who are going to apply thinking that they'll get it because they meet the internal qualifications not knowing that there's a number that they're they're competing they're not collaborating. Yeah I mean that information's on when people apply that information is there on there's a hole here that I can get the link there's the whole section about four applicants. Okay I'm gonna stop sharing David before you can show. I just dropped the link and unfortunately I'm gonna have to drop in two minutes anyway but just on the wiki there is a section so when somebody shows up as wanting to be an applicant they can they can get all those details. Okay I'm gonna go ahead and just grab that link and I'm gonna share it instead. So it's like two years ago when I first found out about hyperlogic it was through Sai Chen on a collabathon called the open climate collabathon and I just thought that finally a company that has this one of its core values collaboration instead of competition. I mean the one thing that we do say to all applicants is that the paid mentorship does have only a certain limited slots because we only have a certain budget but it's wide open. I mean everybody who wants experience in the open source community certainly can. I mean there's no there's no limit on the number of people who can show up and contribute and get experience that way. So I mean it is an open door to everybody but the paid part is where we have just limited budgets in here just before I drop really quick. It sounds like Peter has to drop as well David. So I think you know is this the internship program from 2022 that you shared there? Yeah so maybe yeah if you want to take a look there's yeah you can see actually there's a fair amount of detail there's even a final project presentation here I would say this would be a good thing to like look through to see what was created by this person. Yeah this has the like the mock-ups and everything he did. I do have to drop now but maybe this is something we can review at the next next Monday on the next onboarding call to see like maybe what's existing that we can build off of. I like the skill sets that's been in this presentation so I guess what I'll do David is I'll just go ahead and move some of these skills over to the other program that we put for 2023 and then I'll reach out to Runef we hang up here on this call and move on there. Okay that sounds good okay well I'm sorry I have to drop but yeah thanks thanks everyone. Okay have a wonderful day. Thank you bye bye. Okay Elizabeth well I think I'm going to go ahead and move some of this stuff over there and be ready for the next mentorship program. All right thanks for organizing. Okay wonderful to catch up with you and reach out the email if you have any questions between now and next call. All right see you. All right take care bye.