 Mark Shklavs, the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea program. Hawaii is far across the sea from Ukraine. However, recent events have brought Hawaii and Ukraine closer. Valeria Kampaus and Svetlana Ivasyuk are members of the Ukraine community in Hawaii and my guests today. Valeria and Svetlana were both born and raised in Ukraine. Valeria moved to the United States and Hawaii about eight years ago. Valeria is a professional Ukrainian and Russian interpreter and translator, including working as an interpreter for the Hawaii state judiciary. Svetlana moved to the United States in 2001 and to Hawaii in 2020. Svetlana runs a business, an Etsy store called Lana Beads, selling beads and jewelry, supplies to crafters and artisans all over the world. She's also an artist. She creates jewelry, paints watercolors, and Ukrainian traditional paintings. Both Valeria and Svetlana participated in the Stand with Ukraine rally at the Hawaii state capital last Friday. And I've asked them to share their personal knowledge and insights about the Russian invasion of Ukraine and what Hawaii and the world can do to stand with Ukraine at this time. Aloha, Valeria and Svetlana. How are you? I know it's a mark. Thanks for having us. Yes, Aloha. Aloha, everyone. Thank you for having us here. Very important to have you. And I want to start off. I know that you both have relatives and friends in Ukraine. And I would like to ask you, what have you heard from your family and friends in Ukraine about the current Russian invasion and what's happening now and what has changed recently? So please, Svetlana, you go first. And Valeria, go next. Yes, sure. Well, since the Russians started, there have been many different responses from my friends and family. Like, some of them were forced to flee the country just for the sake of their children. Some of them were joining the territorial army of civilians, the people to protect their territory. Some of them, like, they got back to the active military service. So they joined it back again after being the civilian for some time. And a lot of people just were uprooted. A lot of people were forced to move from their homes from the east. They moved to the west or western countries as well. But also my parents and a lot of Ukrainians decided to stay home. Like, they were saying to me that they spend their older lives, and that is going to be their end, if it has to be. So a lot of people are staying there. What is going on right now? Like, since the Russia started this invasion, since Russia started this war, there was like about, I'd rather, like, 113 missiles shooting, launched in Ukraine. And there was not only targeting military objects, military structures, they were targeting peaceful cities. They were targeting schools, child-cares, hospitals. And it's just hard to imagine what's going to happen. But if you think about all the refugees, the people who had to move, who had to leave, everything they had in their homes and to move into, you know, like, not knowing situation, not, like, fearing for their lives, for their children and caring. There is, like, the increasing need of food, obviously, in the western part, and shelter, and, like, sanitary items for them just to live at least to survive this madness that is going on right now. So, right now, the military invasion, it didn't cease. It is not over. But you mentioned, like, what changed over this time. What I can tell that, like, first day, we've been calling constantly me, Valeria, as well as everybody else. If I try to reach their relatives, their friends to see what is going on, what I can tell that, like, initially, when you would talk to them, you would feel their fear. You would feel they're, like, they were lost. Nobody could believe this is happening for real. But let's say a day or two passed by, and when I talk to them, I feel their unity. I feel their shrinks in their voice. They are confident. They're confident it's going to be over and it's going to be over soon. And this war is going to end by Ukrainian having the victory. This war is going to end with Ukrainians getting rid of those aggressors from our country, from our lands. So that's what changed. And the bravery is just amazing. Like me and everybody else, you can watch from the social medias. You can see the acts of bravery from civilian people, from normal people who never had to have their arms to hold their arms. They would stop tanks. They would mislead them. They would kind of, they would destroy them with whatever, whatever they have, whatever they have available. That is just amazing. That is I'm so proud to do this and I'm so happy that they are able to do it and doing the best. Valerie, do you have anything that you'd like to add? Well, Svetlana gave you a great picture of what's going on. We talked about my family in the beginning with your two. The update is, you know, they are still safe. That's a lot. They are home. There is no intention to leave. I know that men in my family kind of bring in their wives and little children to safety and then going back and draft or go back and join the territorial defense. One of my relatives was actually visiting me since two weeks ago. He's currently stuck here. We are working through an alternative path for him, how to return home. Kind of all the vacation is spoiled. I mean, nobody's talking about. So he was supposed to surf and enjoy the sunshine. He's participating in the rallies instead, you know, dying to go back home because he's worried sick about his family. Yeah, but I mean, there is no, amazing. There is no panic. There is, yes, people are afraid of bombing. Civilians, of course, are afraid every time the bombs fall. And it's every night right now. And it is extremely difficult to explain that to the children and to calm the children down. And I understand the pain and the frustration. But as a nation, Ukrainians are proving themselves as being absolutely unimaginable people. Yeah, very impressive. And the Ukrainian government, I mean, how was that? I mean, how was that going? How was Zelensky doing? Well, Zelensky has become a great inspiration and surprise, not just for Ukrainians, but for the rest of the world. Even for me, remember earlier, we discussed this conversation with you and you heard a totally different remarks from me. I am very happy and relieved to see his passage from an actor and a comedian to a real leader of a nation. And that's a very challenging time for him. It's no doubt in my mind, it's a scary time for him. I am very impressed with how much soul, spirit, courage he has for himself, for the nation and for the rest of the world. It's not just the Ukrainian people that he's inspiring today. He has become an inspiration for everybody on the planet, for us, for Americans, for the Europeans, for his own nation. And I tell you this, I mean, I am an optimist in everything that happens bad. I always try to find something positive. And in this situation, I want to bring the most important problem, the most valuable portion of it. The Soviet Union, Russia has put centuries into dividing Ukrainians into halves, into East and West, into Russian speaking and Ukrainian speaking nation, into pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian portion of the country. And these four or five days of the war has done more for the unity of the people than 30 years of democracy. And this is something which probably is the most valuable lesson our nation learns. It takes a unity, it takes everybody in the nation to be on the same side, to stand together, to resist an aggression, to resist an oppression, to win the battle. So I hope this will become a lesson for generations that freedom and democracy and integrity and independence is not a given, it's not a stable thing. It's not something that will happen and last forever. This is something that will become a fight for every generation to grow and it has to be defended and it has to be cherished. Yeah, and nobody wants war, nobody wants killing and this horrible stuff that's been happening with the invasion of Ukraine, but it's been remarkable that the people come together. And in Hawaii, I didn't know there was a Ukrainian community in Hawaii. Well, what is that? I mean, tell us a little bit about that. Who and what is the Ukrainian community in Hawaii? Yeah, Mark, if I may. Well, you're not the only one who didn't know there is no Ukrainian community in here. So, but like you mentioned, like everybody feels right now that you'll be surprised. Like, unfortunately, this is catastrophe, but that what brings people together that will, they will forget everything about all the differences in between, all the different opinions that'll just come together as one to do the right thing that should be done. So, the Ukrainian community, as you can imagine, that's like, it's so diverse in here. If you saw, there are like people who, whose ancestors probably came after World War I. There are like people who like were raised in Hawaii already, they are great parents of whoever moved in here. There were also people who came to Hawaii after the Soviet Union collapsed. So, and there's like me, like Valeria and me and some other ones that got in like 2000, something or like late 90s. So, if you think some people haven't even experienced having the independent Ukraine, if they moved in here before 1991 before the Ukraine's got independent, you know. So, it's amazing, but it's still, we have our differences, but what really great that we've all come together as one and you saw us supporting each other, you saw us being there and the number is really amazing. I thought, well, myself, I never knew there are so many Ukrainians over here. So, yes. Right, and so this has brought a lot of people together in Hawaii, which is remarkable. And is there a, how does the, I mean, is there a consensus about the Putin, Putin and Russia within this community here in Hawaii? That is one question. We definitely all stay united on, yes. Yes, Putin is a work criminal. Putin is definitely the enemy, not just for Ukraine, but for the rest of the Democratic world. You hear the open threats now, right? So it's not like my imagination or somebody else saying or a rumor, he openly threats the European Union, he openly threats the United States. Yeah. We don't, I don't think there can be any argument on that. So our community here, the Ukrainian community feels pretty, pretty united in that is what I'm hearing. Now, do any of you have insight into what the Russians are thinking about this invasion by Russia into Ukraine? Mark, you're asking for trouble, this question, yes. It's, you know, it's not a simple answer to this one. I mean, that can be one simple yes or no. But again, let me just, I would like to share just my opinion and how I see it. So if that's, that's okay. So for me personally, I feel that majority of Russians, they do support Putin and they do support this invasion. Unfortunately, as painful as it is as much destruction, as much as we can feel and see that that's the truth. And the truth is not just actively supporting. For me personally, if you're not saying no, if you're not protesting against this, it's same like being actively involved through war. Silence is as bad as the other, as the soldiers that are being in Ukraine right now, they are fighting, they are shooting at people, they are bombing, destroying our cities, our museums, our schools, our hospitals and so forth. But again, as much as this bad things happening, as much as we have this anger, as much as we have this devastation as Ukrainians, there are Russians who are from Ukraine. You've seen probably, you might have met some people who came to our rally. There are some Russians who came on Friday. There are even more Russians who came on Sunday's rally. And I cannot, you know, I cannot just say that all of them are against Ukraine. But from my personal experience, I do wanna tell this because a lot of families, a lot of people, a lot of Ukrainian people are in the same situation like I am. I haven't family living in Russia. I have family living in Russia. My cousins live there. So for me, after a couple of days, I start thinking about them. I was like, hey, I do need to hear their support as well. I do need to hear, I need to know that I, you know, they are on the same page with me. Maybe they can do much, but they, you know, I do wanna hear, so I did reach out to them. And it's really hard to say what I heard back from them, that this operation, this military operation, it was justified by the means and they are simply clearing Nazis out of Ukraine. Which was, I was just lost. I looked at that, I just couldn't believe it. Can you imagine to hear this from your sister, from your cousin, from somebody else? Not please. I would like to add a couple of things from my point of view. First of all, let's not forget that put in spend decades to eradicate the opposition, to eradicate the independent way of thinking. So we have multiple stories about poisoning, dissidents about killing the journalist, about imprisoning the opposition and killing the opposition leaders. So he has done a lot, he has done a lot for the people not to question his line of action in Russia, right? On top of that, it's not justifying each of them, right? But however, if you think about Russia as if it is a North Korea, you kind of get the picture of the thinking behind the Russian population. I want to mention as well that there is a, like Svetlana said, you're asking for trouble now. There is a population, there is a community of Russians here in Hawaii too. And I know there is a lot of either indifference or mocking or personal harassment coming from them towards us even now. Yeah. But again, I know all this negativity that we are talking about, all this, it's really painful. But I also want to mention that some Russians, they not just came to a rally, they were really supportive. They talked to us, they were saying they do not share, you know, they do not share Putin's propaganda. They do not share this view there against this war. It's incredibly cruel for them to see all those pictures to be involved. And it's even, they are ashamed of being Russian at this point. And I know that's got on the news, there was one man from Russia who publicly he burned his Russian passport, which is was a net of so much bravery. Like not every Russian can stand up and say, hey, I'm against it. They might come to the rally and be in silent, which is really, we do appreciate it greatly. But for us to hear it and to see it, that there is a little bit more that they are brave. But on the other hand, you know what I'm thinking that Ukraine with all this war and all this fight, it will show that independence is above all. And I think it's going to aspire other people. It's going to aspire even Russians to take, you know, to see what's really going on in their country and to have different choice in the future. And you folks, was that the purpose of the rally at the state capital last Friday? And is that your intent going forward? You know, the rally was pretty impressive at the state capital and we got some photos of it that we can play as we talk. But tell me about what the purpose was and how did that happen? Well, first of all, each of us, every one of us now is devastated, is scared for the families where it's sick. We still cannot, I don't think we can process completely, you know, what actually is happening right now. I think it's got to take us some while to accept the fact, you know, that we have crossed the line of the point of, there is no return. There is, I don't see how this can be restored between the two nations, right? Between the Russians and Ukrainians. First of all, but the first of all, rally was a need for us to support our people, to show our families, our friends in Ukraine, the warriors that defend Ukraine, that we care, that we know, that we support with them, that we bring awareness that we know what's going on, that the world knows what's going on. We needed to support them. There is very limited way for us to show them our support, to send our support to them now. So this is a way for us to send love and care to them in any possible way. There is a need for many of our members of our community for personal support and condoning. They are devastated, especially those who have relatives in the hotspots and Kiev and Kharkiv, where the families enduring daily bombing, food shortages, where they are scared. We need to bring those people together and we need to physically hold them and share the energy and share the strengths. On top of that, like Svetlana said, and you said that, right? I did, like you said, I didn't, a lot of people in Hawaii, they say, I had no idea we even have Ukrainians and Ukrainian community here. We came out to let them know, yes, we'll leave them on you, we suffer, we need your support, we need your strength, we need you to know what happens and we need you to help us to fight the evil, to stand against the evil. So let me ask you, is the United States and the rest of the world doing enough in that regard? And while what more should be done? Valeria? Okay, well, first of all, I understand and I truly appreciate how much strength, unity, and initiative the United States taking, first of all, in this fight. And then I would like to appreciate the nations, the European nations and particularly the joining the fight and that openly support, there is a tremendous amount of support coming in right now for Ukraine, from everywhere, ammunition, economic sanctions, personal sanctions, open borders, Poland has always been a great, a true great friend for Ukrainians by accepting the refugees right now by waving a lot of obstacles in their way and trying to make that happen by saving civilians and by being actually the only open channel for the help, for the support to come into the country. Lithuanians, the little Baltic nation that has followed that the worst time they were victims of the Soviet Union as well and they are now the European Union members and they are the NATO members. They are the strongest supporters of Ukraine everywhere in Europe and even here. I wanted to personally thank the Lithuanian community for standing with us every day through this conflict and giving us so much support. It's amazing. I want to thank Georgia nation, those who also been the victim of war with Russia in 2008, they are our strong defenders as well. I want to thank each friend of mine, every family member here in the United States that is calling and trying to help, trying to support us, trying to stand with us. It's unprecedented. Svetlana, what do you think? I mean, what more can be done? Should the United States send in troops? You're always asking those questions, huh? Well, again, it is not an easy to answer. It is not an easy to answer. Since I have in my blood, I have Ukrainian roots. I've been here, I call United States my home. So there is still like, I looked at it, I thought about it a lot and it's still like a fight inside myself because as a Ukrainian person, as a Ukrainian with a heritage and all the culture knowledge and all those being in me, in me, I wanna say, yes, we need to send it. Let's say America, you know, because in this case, if there would be active military involved in the situation, it would have stopped it. That would show Russians what is the real army response is, what is the strongest army response is because they always break in via such, it is a country with a big influence. They always been to media mocking the United States. They always blame in the United States for being behind or, you know, behind Ukraine. That's Ukraine is like a puppet in the US, you know, and US just holding it and like moving it around. They, it's sort of like for me, that would be the response you asked for it. Now we get it. Let me prove that you're right after all those slides you were saying. But on the other hand, I do understand I'm an American and, you know, we've been the military family. So I can't imagine if somebody else had sent her, you know, if a woman has sent a child in there to fight for somebody country's freedom. You know, I don't want them to suffer. I don't want them to be sick, worried. Like we are right now about the families. I don't think it's right. But again, the evil is not just for Ukraine. Just not against Ukraine right now. The threat is going to the Europe altogether. And it's, you know, it's the world's gonna suffer. It's not just one country, but the bravery of Ukraine shows how much we can do, even like not being as the strongest, not being probably the best equipped. So probably no, I wouldn't say, maybe a lot of Ukrainians won't agree with me. I wouldn't say you asked troops at this point. But I think there is an urgency of need for those, like Western system, protective system, you know, to defend it, to have Ukrainians will fight for themselves. They will fight till the very last drop of blood in their veins, but they need something to fight with. And you know, the supply is like, it's not gonna replenish on its own. You don't have time. You don't have factors, you don't have capacity. So if the US can, as soon as possible, send some supplies of equipment, some machinery that would be really great. And not just machinery, I wanna mention like medical equipment, because, you know, that's the war. Lots of people are got injured and wounded and they do need help immediately. It's not something that you can run in five years from now. It's gonna be resolved or it's gonna be treated or whatsoever. It should be done immediately. That's my point. And I hear you both telling us that this is a bigger problem for the whole world. Yes. And we have to deal with it right now. And we should all be aware of it and conscious. Now, what can Hawaii do now to stand with Ukraine? Are there any more events that you have planned? What's happening? Well, as long as this war goes on, we plan on gathering and bringing awareness every Friday, afternoon, around 4 to 6 o'clock by the Capitol. We just say we found a little Capitol building. And every Sunday morning, we will be in Alamoana Park. So we need support. We need to see that people know what's going on. We are welcoming, you don't have to be Ukrainian to join us. So it is, being a Ukrainian, I think it's a state of mind today, which a lot of people would share. So if, and I want to, I mean, I want to mention the last Uralis that the support from Hawaii is tremendous anyways. I remember eight years ago when I just came and Russia invaded Crimea, and I was taking my Ukrainian flag out. People were asking which football team I was cheering for, right? We do not have this conversation anymore. Hawaii are changing as well. People know what happens. People don't have illusion who is right and won in this conversation. There might be historical gap because they don't know where it comes from, what happens, why does it happen, where the hostility comes from, and this is why we communicate with you, and this is why we come out to those rallies. So if people have questions, come see us, talk to us, ask those questions, let us answer and let us explain, support us. If you feel there is very limited way to send donations to Ukraine, but there is still is. So come and check with us for the trustful sources. But, and also if you have, if any of you have friends which are Ukrainian, make sure you call your friends and make sure you text your friends and make sure you tell them that you care and that you stand with us. Should learn it? Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. I can't understand what we need right now. You know, we are very strong in our unity. We are very strong in our bravery. We are fearless, but you don't realize that when you are left on left alone with all those news, you can handle it. You need to feel support and it should be done right now and right here and the people who are here. So please come and join us. And I just want to end like, I just want to add to this that I know that it's not, you ask what you ask and how I can do like right now. It's right now, yes, we need to feel your support to see it and feel it and we do and we really greatly appreciate it. The other thing I do want to bring to like attention that in near future, lots of warriors, lots of people it's going to be injured there and to have the real treatment. I think it's not even being actively involved in the operations, but you ask in Hawaii in particularly if they would be able to, you know, accommodate some maybe hospitals and to do some rehabilitation and supply the warriors, that would be just amazing and would be very helpful and will be grateful like forever. We'll do our best to help in that, but that I think that is possible to do. You are saying show the aloha spirit. That's what I hear you, what I hear you telling us and bring people together even during this terrible time. And you're asking people, please come talk to us. And, you know, Fridays at the, from about four o'clock at the state capital and then Sundays, Alamoana Park and everybody's welcome and with aloha. Is that correct? Yes, that's the message. And talk to you, you're open to talk about it and see what can be done and what avenues are available or what ideas can you can come up with and you're open. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, we are at the end here of this program today. I'd like to ask you each, are there any final words that you'd like to say in support of standing with Ukraine? Slava Ukraini. Hello, I'm Slava. That's the greeting and the answer. I think everyone, every Ukrainian would understand and that would be hurt with the entire heart. It would be very great. So yeah, that's probably the other thing. Slava Ukraini. Hello, I am Slava. Thank you. Glory to Ukraine. Slava Ukraini. Glory to Ukraine. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you both very much. Thank you, Mark. Appreciate you being here at this difficult time. But the purpose and the result is positive and it's good to get this word out. Thank you. Aloha. Aloha. Thank you.