 This is Will Spencer from the renaissance of men here with the new 21 report and Suzanne Vanker. It's nice to meet you Nice to meet you. Thanks so much for being here. Sure. You spoke at the 22 convention. What was the title of your talk? It was it's time to end America's gender war. Oh, wow, okay So what was what were some of the subjects I can imagine that you covered? Yeah, so I opened up talking about The piece that I wrote in 2012 for Fox News called the war on men Which ended up going viral because feminists got ahold of it and Had apoplexy and that cost it to go viral. And so that was kind of a whirlwind experience and I sort of piggybacked off from there and talked about You know, how far we've come how far we haven't come how far we've devolved in the last 40 years when it comes to men and women the relationship between them and Really with a focus on what's happening with men and how if men fall behind then women fall behind too And there's just not, you know, whenever you hear about men What's happening with them in society in terms of for instance the fact that they're not going to colleges at the same Rays college is the same rate as women and they're not working at the same rate and all of that That's gonna hurt everybody. It's not just them So it's not like something not to worry about so I kind of connected that with marriage rates And why the marriage rates have plummeted and why men are opting out and now women are having Babies outside of marriage because they basically can't find husbands and why that is Yeah, I talked to Eric Kerr a little bit ago and you dealing with the family court system and the divorce industry and how that's Disincentivizing men from getting married as well. It's horrible. It is. I don't get into any of that But I understand. It's all the same different angles of the same issue Talk a little bit about that 2012 experience. Were you surprised that you went viral or surprised by the reaction? I had been dealing with pushback Before that wasn't kind of my first rodeo But it but I opened the speech With the subject line that I received as a result of that going viral that said, please kill yourself Hmm I would say that was pretty striking. I haven't had anything like that before since But I wanted to show the level of vitriol At the mere suggestion that something's going on with men And women but starting with men because it was called the war on men And how dare I even go there when that's not the narrative. So I'm upsetting the narrative and that's Wow, you know, that's just so deep as to could you imagine actually writing that in a subject line? And then actually hitting send Yeah, but I have to imagine myself being pretty mentally ill. Yeah and so This is your first time at the 21 summit 21 convention. What have been some of your impressions? Let's talk about the 22 convention. What have been your impressions of the women who were there? They're very they're awesome I mean, it's been really fun. It's it's um, it's an eclectic group And um, I love how they're all very different, but they have this commonality, you know and loving Um men and women and not being afraid to talk out against the feminist narrative, which is Can be a lonely job You know if you're a woman especially because you're a missa well for men for a man too But it's a lot harder for a man to do it It's almost you almost wonder whether it's worse or better for a man or a woman to call it out because we're all Misogynist if we do But we're a traitor to our own sex whereas you're just a you know, you're just over there I don't know. I don't know a typical male. Right. Sometimes I think women can have an extra degree of viciousness to each other You know true. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yeah, so I mean, maybe it's maybe it's almost worse for you Right, I mean I'm I'm I guess you might say genetically bred to be a warrior and to take it But women aren't quite bred the same way No, they're not I think that's why there are fewer of us because you have to really have you definitely have to have thick skin There's no question about that But I've kind of moved away from that whole scene from 2012 So I was talking about that in the talk as well that I I'm kind of done fighting Feminists on the publics in the public sphere and I I have a podcast this is an banker show and I do relationship and marriage coaching So that's really where my attention is today is helping individuals Be successful in their marriages and relationships when they're fighting this huge Narrative that is steering them this way and I'm over here saying hey, you don't have to do it that way There's another way and and here's how it looks which gets into the masculine feminine Dynamic and all that so that's what I do on a weekly basis. Oh, so do men and women call into your show or You know for the people watching Okay, so it's sort of like Introducing them to speakers and authors that like that who speak to these issues So on the show, um, it was actually originally a local radio show in the Midwest where I'm from And then that devolved and we're now just strictly a podcast So it's been a couple of years and I had a guest on every week and just recently have gone out on my own And just I'm gonna having just going to be having guests periodically But that's still very new and it just moved from once a week to three times a week So it's me solo now three short podcasts or three short episodes, but I do have a lot of Emails and questions and comments that I'm constantly collecting that are like yay Hi, so I will take time to sit there and answer them that way So it's not a call in but you can ask a question through email and I'll answer it So for the for the people watching and listening short like 30 minutes sort like an hour 15 minutes 30 or less Yep, they were an hour every week and now it's 30 minutes and then like 15 and 15 sometimes a little longer Did you find that the women here? Oh, go ahead. Sorry. No, I was gonna say some people love that some people don't They should be longer. They should be shorter. Yeah, I can't win. You can't make everybody happy, right? So did you find that the women here? Did they know who you were? Have you had they heard of your work? They seem to that was great. Oh, wow Have you gotten the chance to interact with some of the men who are attendees of the 21 convention as well? Yeah, what has that been like for you? Yeah, they're great. I mean, it's it's I mean, I'm it's nice to know that they've got a space to um talk openly about Their experiences and who they are and without being shamed, you know I talked about that in the talk men About being shamed for being male and you're supposed to change who you are to keep up with the times as a put Rather than our understanding The differences between women and men and appreciating and loving how wonderful men are if you just know How to bring out the best in them. So that's kind of what I do On a weekly basis. That's who I am. That's what I do today. Well, how do you bring out the best? I don't know really like, you know, we were talking before the cameras Started rolling about allison armstronger book the queen's code how that for me as a man reading that How it taught me so much about myself and allison has actually said that, you know She set out to write a book for women about men and she didn't expect that would benefit so many men So you must have had the same experience. I have had the same and it's so awesome It's been really fascinating because I'd say my audience is pretty much now 50 50 men and women Yeah, and I do marriage coaching, but I do it individually Sure, but I and I do work mostly with wives, but I definitely work with husbands as well And even single men who are trying to figure out whether they should marry the person they're dating that kind of thing And what's nice is that my youtube channel, I'm out there now enough to by the time people get with me for coaching They know what I'm about. You know, and it's very helpful to have those two working side by side But yeah, hearing from the men is like, can I give you know, like the alpha? I was telling you about my book the alpha females guide to men in marriage and I'll have men, you know, asking me How do I get my wife to read this? Can I like strategically put it by her bed that kind of bedside? and Yeah, a lot of that that I wasn't expecting when I first wrote it, which Gosh talk about a window into what's happening. I mean, I've just got slammed from like Seeing how how pervasive this dynamic was of the over Masculinize a woman and What men do with that? Which is a combination of either fighting back and hence the conflict and the power struggle Or the retreating There's just and and and then not knowing, you know Who is to blame or who's to fault or how to fix it and then when I come along and sort of teach women the skills To do that they're just like I've never heard this before, you know And they see how quickly it works, you know, which is really just speaking to What motivates a man and making him feel Superfluous is not not it. No, that's not the way that's not the way or nagging and complaining and yeah So like you could sum up what I do with the coaching is basically helping wives not do And being softer and kinder and gentler with their approach And so when women go through that process, what are some of the things they usually say to you at the end of the process? Well, they'll tell me I guess the running theme is I just can't believe How quickly that worked like you don't it's not like losing 100 pounds We have to wait three or four months to see action It's immediate and when they get that then it's that much easier for them to keep it up And then they're just sort of like why have I never heard this before and that gets into well You've been living in a you go girl world And and you can do no wrong and men are trying to hold you down So you're hold all your defenses are up You're just coming at it all wrong and you and everybody else It's not like you're unusual and I don't really blame them actually. They've been cultivated in that way So what happens when women get to that point? Like why didn't anybody tell me this? Where do they go from there because as men I know, you know, men have answers Like why didn't anybody tell me this and we start getting into the deeper so sociocultural reasons The men go there, but do women go there as well? Do they start asking those questions? We don't get into that there. We don't really they know what it is like every fourth Coaching session Something will come up like well, you know, that's feminism for you or you know, the culture did that But no, we don't talk about it much. They are real. We're really honed in on their individual relationship experience That makes a lot of sense, but they all end up. I mean they all are kind of on the same You wouldn't have a strident feminist calling me for marriage help Probably they're not even married, you know, but I mean if they were I'm sure I mean there are feminist who are married But um, they wouldn't reach out to me So you can kind of as by the time they've all been sort of vetted in their own way by knowing what I'm about Before they call and you have to be open and ready to try something that's very counter cultural and desperate really to save your marriage To work with me. Is that that's when the companies when they kind of do I and that's not fun It is unfortunate. That's not how I meant it to me But I have to say 75 For not the single people, you know, people who are married 75 of them are But they're not to the point of like Well, I've had a few I've had I had one who was separated Just about to separate and I like I can't help you if you're separated because you've got to be in the house ready to and they he separated for three months came back then she called and um They were all in or she was all in to make a change and and several months later. They're still going great So in unless my point is unless you're all in if you have one foot out the door I'm not going to be much help to you. You really have to want it. I can't make anybody want something But I can show you how to get there if you do I think that's very hopeful that there are some women because it would be easy to get kind of nihilistic and be like Women don't want to be married and they just want to kick their husbands to the curb But there are some women that want to stay married to their husbands and I I feel silly saying that Well, I mean there's so much negativity about How women are today and I'm part of that I get that I just have a lot more sympathy Because it's not I truly believe it's not their fault. They were groomed this way by the generation of women before them If you want to blame someone it should be them I know you can only reap what you sow and they've been raised by all their own mothers and the culture to think of men As lesser Beings, you know and and a milder. Yeah And so it's a real massive mind shift to work with me and And and you just have to be willing and ready. Yeah Have you gotten the chance to listen to any male speakers of the 21 convention of the patriarchs? I've seen them on channel in the past, but no not not this time anyone that stands a little bit of anthony's I did when we first came in That's it What have been what have been your impression of the conference overall? I guess this is your first time here. It is it is the dinners were great everything. I mean it was nice to get to know people and Really really varied backgrounds. Very cool. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your book how to get hitched and stay hitched Which I actually I saw this sitting on the book table out there and I flipped it open I was like looking at the table of contents. I was like, oh, this is great after yeah Let's look at the table contents actually gave it away, which is good. It's very helpful read the table What did I say? Yeah, so I started out with the four lies the culture tells that's part one And then part two was the 12 step program, which is basically You know imploding the lies and saying this is the wrong way to think and to live and this is the way and when I say wrong I mean Assuming you want to get married and have a family and be happy. I'm not trying to tell people what to do I'm just saying if this is the plan that you have Following the culture isn't going to get you there. You need a new one. So that's the purpose of this book So it's everything starts from living an examined life And that basically means being counter cultural instead of following and then it goes through the different steps Yeah, do you want me to go through them? No, that'd be a lot. Yeah, I mean, you know men can men can where can men can can't men look up online Where okay amazon you could just google the title. Yeah, and you'll find it very quickly so You know you you mentioned earlier men had asked you how Can I get my wife to read this like you actually have any advice for that because you know I recommend allison's books because I'm familiar with them. It's like but men asked me I said you got to read this to understand yourself and if you want to help impact positively affect your marriage Maybe try and get your wife to read it like I have no idea how to get my wife to read this It's a hard question to answer to be honest because at the end of the day a person really has Can't neither husband nor wife or man nor woman or person to person can help someone else Change they have to be looking and be ready and open lead a horse to water. Yeah, it's kind of like that So, um, there isn't an easy answer for that easy way to do that Except maybe mention offhandedly. Oh, I met so it sounded really interesting Instead of here read this book, you know, that's probably not it's a little more strategic. Probably not gonna probably not gonna work um Well, so talk more about your podcast and some of some of the issues that are coming up now because it seems like It seems like the conflict is only growing But I know that underneath that men and women are actually finding their way back together and that this conference is an example of that Yeah, um, so it's called this is an vicar show creative, right? Yeah, I like it straight to the point and um, it covers I mean I try to cover things that come up in the news sometimes if they're related to this issue Which that's not hard to find on a weekly basis. Um, but generally I'm I'm basically taking a lot of what I'm seeing in my coaching And trying to bring it to the world via the podcast so that more than just the couple I'm working with see Not just not just hear about what's happening if they can relate but also what to do about it So some of those skills like I did a video recently Well, this is I guess it's a video not a podcast, but they are interchangeable sort of Six six things women need to know about men Oh, I want to know what those are and that went that's still doing really well I think it's like there's almost like 30,000 views on that now. That's well for me. I'm not really a youtube person I'm more of you know, the podcast and the coaching is my main focus But we do have the youtube channel and we do put the podcast on the youtube channel three times a week. Um I don't remember what I said now I wrote it. I mean I did it a couple weeks ago. I do so much content. I can't remember. Um, Sweet talk and bottom lines men like sweet talk and bottom lines like get to the point Not long winded and be sweet. Don't be an ass. You know, uh, that was one of them. Um I'm totally freezing. That's totally fine. Look up everybody can look up six things Women need to know about men on my youtube channel and you'll find it there That's wonderful. Do you plan to stick around for the next day or so or check out the rest? I'm leaving in the morning. I'm having dinner tonight. Okay, and then I'm leaving in the morning Wow, I'm grateful that you were here to you know, share with the women and and to meet with the men and and tell them You know, what's going on with men and women? It doesn't have to go the way the culture says Definitely not Now if you want to win not if you want to I mean win at it win at love win at the game of love Win at the game of love if you want to call it that I love it. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you That's great. That's me. Nice to meet you too. This is will spencer from the renaissance of men here with the new 2021 report and susan banker. Thanks so much