 Thank you so much, Mike, and thank you to Learning Times for making our webinars possible. They do all that great technical background for us and make sure everything works so smoothly for us. So I'd like to welcome you to the WebWise reprise. And this is Heritage Preservation and IMLS's brainstorm on how we could bring the WebWise conference, which is an IMLS and their partner's conference that has been going on since 2002. So every year they bring together representatives from museums, libraries, archives, science folks, technology folks, education, and other fields that talk about what's going on in delivery of information and content from museums and libraries through technical ways. And we are so happy to actually bring another technical layer to the whole WebWise program by offering some of the presentations that were made at the conference again in a webinar format. So we have one webinar today and that will be about using collections images in online exhibits. And we're so pleased to have Shalimar Fawaz White, who's the Manager of Image Collections and Fieldwork Archives at Dunbart & Oaks Research Center and Collection here in Washington, D.C. And she'll give you an outline about a project she presented at this year's conference and hopefully be able to answer your questions in case you'd like to do something similar at your institution. Again, you probably came to us through the Connecting to Collections online community and that was a partnership of IMLS Heritage Preservation, AESLH, and Learning Times to bring a wonderful one-stop shop for preservation information, a chance to network with colleagues, and access online learning. So if you're not a member already, we welcome you to join. This would give you access to the discussion section, but you have always had an opportunity to see archived webinars or look through our topics menu to get links to trusted preservation information at any time. And we have over 3,000 members now, so we're so pleased that we've brought all these people together in a virtual way to help network and to learn more about preservation. And before I turn it over to Shalimar, she wanted to know a little bit more about you all. So we're just going to ask you a few poll questions. And first was if you were at the meeting this year. Did you see her at the meeting or did you come to the meeting? And predictably the answer is no, and that's good. That means this is no information for you, and this is exactly why we're doing this, just to get the reach out to more people. WebWise is always extremely popular, and they often find that it's the spot to easily fill up for it. So that was one purpose for these webinars. Okay, that's pretty convincing. And we have about 87 people logged into right now, so that's great. So a few more questions about where you are from and what you do at that place. And we know it's so hard for some institutions to narrow it down to just one topic, because we know there are archives and historical societies, et cetera. But if you can just pick the best answer for your particular situation, that just gives us a sense of your experience and what you do. And then likewise, if it's possible to tell us generally what you do, everyone wears a lot of hats, but if you can pick an answer there, that'll help Shalimar understand her audience a bit better. So it looks like a nice mix, a museum library archive mix, and lots of people who work directly with the collection, so that's great. Just give us a few more minutes. Okay, great. Thanks everyone for applying to that. I'm going to just go ahead and drag these away, and I'm going to bring up Shalimar's presentation. And I'm going to go ahead, if you're saying hello right now, I apologize. We're going to just drag this away, and we're going to go to that moderated chat Mike was telling us about. So again, if you put in a question, you're going to see it twice. Once when you tell us about it, and once when we publish it to the group, so don't be alarmed. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to you. Shalimar, thanks for joining us. Great. Thank you so much, Kristen. And thank you to Heritage Preservation and IMLS for hosting these webinars and for providing Dunbart Nooks with a chance to reprise our project demonstration. And thanks to all of you for listening in and giving us a chance to let you know about the projects that we've been doing here at Dunbart Nooks. And we're very excited to talk about our project to a wider audience and to share what we've learned through the process. And my main goal here today is really to demonstrate what a small department or institution like Dunbart Nooks can do to expand access to its collections, despite limited resources, which is a perennial challenge that we all face in libraries, archives, and museums. There's never really enough time or money. And so we need to really think strategically about how we spend both. So please don't let the Russian on my title slide scare you. The title is actually somewhat random. It is the title from a novel by Maxine Gorky. And it was incidentally the only other time that I'd come across the name Artamanov before. It also happens to belong to an enigmatic gentleman whose photographs of Istanbul and Western Turkey are housed in the image collections and fieldwork archives here at Dunbart Nooks. When we started our project, we knew little more about Artamanov beyond his name and those photos. And it was through the journey of piecing together his life that our little department was able to bring to fruition an online exhibition. So of course much more happened along the way and that is really the subject of my talk. How we in ICFA used the research process to solve a few problems that we faced when I first arrived at Dunbart Nooks a little more than two and a half years ago. So just for a bit of background, Dunbart Nooks is located in Georgetown in Washington, D.C. on a property that was once owned by Robert and Mildred Bliss. In 1940, the blisses deeded the entire property to Harvard University, house, gardens, and everything. So today, Dunbart Nooks is a research institute that supports scholarship in three very distinct fields, visiting pre-Columbian and garden landscape studies, a true home for the humanities as the blisses intended Dunbart Nooks to be. So D.O. is justly famous for the 16 acres of gardens. There was a delay on my slide, I apologize for that. D.O. is justly famous for those 16 acres of gardens designed by Beatrix Farrand in close collaboration with Mrs. Bliss. Visitors may also come to see the museum, which holds important collections of Byzantine and pre-Columbian art, the latter housed in a separate gallery designed by Philip Johnson. What visitors may not know is that D.O. also has a research library designed by Robert Venturi, which you can see here, which houses more than 200,000 volumes in those three fields of study, along with a stunning collection of rare books, which you see here. So even fewer will know that we also have Extension's Image Collections and Fieldwork Archives, or ICFA, which is an acronym that I'll be banding about the entire webinar. So ICFA's collections focus primarily on Byzantine art, architecture, and archaeology. They are rich but almost overwhelmingly vast. So the Byzantine photographs alone number more than half a million items in a variety of media, including photographs, negatives, slides, transparencies, even films, which we recently released online through Vimeo. And that's not even accounting for the archival collections that we have, which form the latter part of ICFA's name and document fieldwork and research projects at Byzantine sites throughout the Mediterranean from the 30s through the 80s, so including Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, the former Yugoslavia, and the Middle East. So most of these fieldwork projects were sponsored by Dumbarton Oaks or the Byzantine Institute, which is an organization founded in 1930 by Thomas Whittemore and later absorbed by Dumbarton Oaks in 1962. So these include monumental projects, such as the uncovering and conservation of the mosaics at high Asifiya in Istanbul, undertaken by Whittemore and the Byzantine Institute starting in 1931, which you can see here on the left. And then also the large-scale architectural survey of the same building, which was executed by Robert Van Nys, shown here in the lower right doing some measurements from 1937 through 1986. So more on Van Nys later, he'll return. So despite the importance of these photographs and archival collections to the study of Byzantine art history and archaeology, the collections have never been fully inventoried. When I arrived at Dumbarton Oaks in October of 2010, we had no comprehensive database or collection management system to track or catalog these items. Also, ICFA is known to a very small and extremely specialized audience, pretty much only the Byzantinas know that we exist. And even those Byzantinas who come to Dumbarton Oaks come primarily to consult the unparalleled collections of the research library and the museum. So even within our own institution, we have a very low profile. A small department consisting of me as manager and art librarian, our resident Byzantine scholar Gundur Varanjolu, our archivist Rona Rizan, and Anne-Marie Viola, our metadata and cataloging specialist. So thus being a very small department within a small institution, we don't have a lot of resources at our disposal. To solve our problems, we had to get pretty creative and devising ways to complete the necessary inventory while still responding to the ever-present institutional imperative to digitize, digitize, digitize. As a librarian, I didn't think it responsible to continue digitizing material without establishing full intellectual and physical control over our collections, but we needed to keep our administration confident that some progress is being made. So we came upon the idea of starting a pilot project to create an online exhibition to distract, I mean redirect, our administration's attention from the fact that we had halted all digitization to focus on our inventory, hence the Artemonoff business or the project at hand. So here's what we came up with. Since we were no longer actively digitizing, we needed to repurpose material so that we could build something quickly and cost-effectively. And we wanted to select a collection that had potentially broad appeal beyond those Byzantinas. Artemonoff's photos fit the bill, and better yet, being a mercenary-minded manager, they were already digitized. There was legacy metadata that we could clean up and then just over 500 photos, so a manageable set for an achievable goal. I assigned Gundar as the project lead, but she couldn't do it alone. So we turned to a local university. Professor Elise Friedland, a faculty member in the Classics Department at George Washington University, had previously expressed an interest in internships for her undergraduate students. So we set up a parallel pilot project to establish a partnership with GW. Professor Friedland selected a remarkable junior, Alyssa DeRoshers, to be our guinea pig, starting in January 2011. So our idea, from the start, was to research the collection, collaborate with others as needed to create an online exhibit, and then use this tangible end product to promote ICFA and the collection. So first, those photographs. There were two and a quarter, by two and a quarter, black and white negatives, and also contact prints into crumbling old binders with identification scribbled in pen on scotch tape beneath each image. There were 542 of them, mainly depicting Byzantine sites in Istanbul, including cityscapes, so the aqueduct of Valens here, with Hagia Sophia and the far left distance, from the Asian side across the Bosphorus, interiors, and occasionally people. Artemonof also ventured further afield to ancient sites in western Turkey, including Ephesus, Pryenne, Pergamum, and others. So from analyzing the photographs, we surmised that the photographer was a resident of Istanbul, since we had photos from all over the city and from almost all months of the year between 1935 and 1945. The binders contained no additional information other than the name, so we still had no idea who Artemonof was and how his photographs came to Dombarnik. And that name itself, Artemonof, was another challenge. Because of the way the Russian name is transliterated, there are literally dozens of possible combinations of variants of the first name and Artemonof with QF, 1F, or a V. And also, clearly demonstrating the need for our inventory, our predecessors had incorrectly labelled the photos with the crater as Richard Artemonof, since the negative numbers had started with RA, which they mistook for the photographer's initials. So so far, this online exhibit was looking pretty pathetic, with just the photos themselves, however nice they are, but a blank page under the About the Photographer section. So we realised that we were grasping at straws when we seriously considered using this picture of feet, which we thought could be the photographers. So clearly we were going to have to compile some biographical information to contextualize the photographs. Gundar and Ali started on that track, while I focused on researching the acquisition history by going through departmental correspondence, files, accession logs, and other paper records. So our first big lead was a confidential report from 1985 that had been compiled by a scholar, Lawrence Butler, for the then director of Dunbart-Noakes, Robert Thompson. The report focused on the status of the archives in ICFA, but buried in the text we found this description, quote, these two-and-a-quarter format photos were taken by the spawn of a Russian ambassador to Turkey. The negatives and prints were obtained for Dunbart-Noakes by Robert Van Nijs. Photos of the moths from the same collection are on deposit at the Freer Gallery. So we needed to process the Van Nijs collection anyway, so I took the opportunity to do a preliminary assessment, while doing double duty looking out for any mentions of Artemonus. Eventually I found, stuffed in a folder, a note from Van Nijs where he listed the following tantalizing clues, a DC address for Artemonus in 1962, that Artemonus had lived in Belgrade as well as Istanbul, and that he was a fine photographer who took the trouble to examine archaeological sites. So our unknown photographer was coming more sharply into focus. With these snippets of information, Gundar and Ali attacked the biographical research, and this is where our gamble with an undergraduate really paid off, since Ali's enthusiasm for the project and creativeness with sources to check were absolutely stellar. So including Ancestry.com, phone books, the Social Security Death Index, probate records, etc. And on a hunt, since Van Nijs had been connected to Robert College in Istanbul, Gundar checked with the Robert College Alumni Association in New York and hit the jackpot. So the yearbook for the class of 1930 included one, Mr. Nicholas Artemonus, who graduated from the School of Engineering and is described as, quote, an ardent photographer with the complete knowledge of his subject. Artemonus is given the college much valuable service with his camera. His permanent address was listed as Belgrade, corroborating Van Nijs's note. And we finally had a real photograph of Mr. Artemonus. So after this point, Gundar and Ali began to make discoveries on an almost daily basis. So Artemonus' school records, which listed his father as one Victor Artemonus, a military attaché for the Russian Tsar's army. So not the son of an ambassador after all, but close. His employment records, after graduating from Robert College in 1930, Artemonus continued to work there, eventually becoming the superintendent of buildings and grounds pictured here on the far right in the group portrait. And then we even found our lucid photographer signature on the annual reports that he compiled. So these additional leads allowed Gundar and Ali to piece together Artemonus' entire life, born in Greece in 1908, educated at boarding schools in England while his family lived in Russia and Serbia, high school and college in Istanbul between 1922 and 1930, and then working at Robert College in the 30s and 40s precisely the very years covered by our photographs. And then eventually emigrating to the United States in 1947. He and his wife Natalie settled in the Washington, D.C. area, where he had a successful career as an engineer at several government agencies, including the U.S. Geological Survey, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and eventually Artemonus and Natalie retired to La Jolla, California, where he died in 1989. So I'll pause here in case anybody has any questions. I understand that I was speaking a little bit quickly in the beginning. So Kristen, are there any questions? We haven't gotten any yet, so I bet we will once we get to some of the technical aspects of your project. Okay. So I'll let you go ahead. Sure. Thanks. So let's move on to the next slide. So all told, Gundar and Ali's biographical research paints a picture of a passionate amateur photographer who is deeply interested in his surroundings and had an appreciation for architecture and archeology. After the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1923, archeological activity in Istanbul peaked, starting in the late 20s and through the 30s and 40s, with German, French, British, and Turkish teams actively excavating sites throughout the city. And the Americans, if you remember the Byzantine Institute and Van Nys, already busy at Hagia Sophia, which had been converted from a mosque to a museum in 1935. So I wanted to single out one site, which is the Church of St. Ecemia, which was discovered by chance in 1939 during the demolition of the old central prison in Istanbul. The Byzantine frescoes that were uncovered at that site were exposed to sun and rain and reportedly damaged by children, until the German archeologist, Am Schneider, was given permission to excavate in 1942. Now thankfully, our Mr. Artemanov had photographed repeatedly at the site in 1940, 42, and 46. These photographs provide valuable visual documentation of that compromised site. The photographs were published in this popular article that I show here by a Robert College colleague, Sven Larson, in the Illustrated London News, as well as in Schneider's scholarly publication on the excavation, though sadly for Mr. Artemanov, never attributed to him. So in the letter of acknowledgement addressed to Artemanov, a copy of which we eventually found in a filing cabinet under Washington D.C. miscellaneous, Ernst Kitzinger, then the director of Byzantine studies at Dumbartonoke, specifically cites these photographs of St. Ecemia's frescoes as absolutely invaluable to the field. So it was precisely during these years of archeological activity that Artemanov was living in Istanbul and actively photographing, demonstrating a curiosity for architectural remains, a keen eye for detail, a sense of the dramatic, and a gift for composition, so truly a gifted amateur photographer. And then when we followed up on the lead for the Smithsonian's Fear Sackler Archives, we discovered that Artemanov's collection had been split up in 1962, when Dumbartonoke selected only the Byzantine material while the Friir acquired the photographs of Ottoman moths and everyday life in Istanbul. So the Friir photographs were an absolute revelation, revealing another dimension to Artemanov's photographic personality, a sensitivity to the ebb and flow of daily life, and also the power of photography to distill everyday details and infuse them with a sense of monumentality. The Friir's photographs in lantern slides added more than 470 new images to Artemanov's ove, and added more nuance to our profile of him. We'd seen glimpses of his interest in documenting everyday life in the Dumbartonoke set, when, for instance, he would photograph the façade, the famous monuments like the Karajami, but then also the people in the neighborhoods behind the building. So up to this point, we'd collaborated with scholars, librarians, and archivists, both here in the United States and in Turkey, to track down information about Artemanov. But more importantly, we collaborated as a group, with each other, and worked as a team. As each person focused on their own projects, we kept an eye out for any mentions of each other's subjects. And this led to some rather interesting and serendipitous finds, such as when our research into Robert Van Nys, so I'm reprising the photo of him here on the left, turned up someone who actually knew Artemanov. So as Van Nys conducted his architectural survey, he routinely recruited students from the engineering department at Robert College, if you recall, Artemanov Alma Mater, to assist him with measurements, as seen here, drawings, and then also sometimes acrobatics. So these are some of those engineering students on the dome of Hagia Sophia. So one of these student helpers was a man named Evgeny Vernagora. We had contacted him to ask questions about Van Nys, and to see if he recognized anyone from the list of names that we sent, which included Artemanov. To our surprise, at the end of his reply, Evgeny said that he knew Artemanov as a boy in Istanbul, as part of the Russian emigrate community that had been evacuated through Istanbul in 1920 after the Russian Revolution. We invited Evgeny to ICFA, and this was the day of the visit here on the left, and he told us stories about growing up as a neighbor to Natalie, Artemanov's future wife, and his admiration even as a child for Artemanov's talent for photography. Eventually, he and his sister Tatiana allotted to scan two photographs of themselves as children, taken by none other than Artemanov himself. So by now, we had amassed enough information to actually create our website, which I'm showing you here. So as I pointed out in the beginning, we're a small department within a small institution where there's only one full-time IT staff member. So with these limited resources, we decided that an open-source software, OMEKA, was the best solution. We reached out to contacts at the Center for History and New Media at nearby George Mason University since we'd already been using their bibliographic management tools, Zotero, to share citations with each other during the research process. Using OMEKA's documentation in active user forums and with much assistance from OMEKA developers, Gundar and Ali were able to create the online exhibition that we launched in December of 2011, which I'm showing you here. So with the OMEKA site, you can browse by site and tag. So our Byzantine colleagues might be horrified by the simplistic terms that we use here, like church and mosque, but these are actually really important access points for the non-scarly audiences that we were hoping to attract as well. And each individual record contains that repurposed metadata that I talked about, which had been exported from a legacy database. OMEKA also allows for geolocation, so you can see exactly where this particular site is located on a map, but then also all of the sites where Artamana's photograph plotted on that same map. And then thanks to our collective research efforts and collaborations with scholars, librarians and archivists, again, both in the United States and in Turkey, we were finally able to compile a profile for the About the Photographer page. So just over a year before, this page would have been blank or shown those disembodied feet, but now this previously unknown amateur photographer has an identity online. So the final step in the process was to promote, promote, promote the site and the project. So upon launch, we posted to listeners serving various communities, mainly with an eye to reach those additional audiences that might not have known about ICFA or its collection. We also tried to be creative about additional channels for outreach. So being librarians, we designed handy-dandy bookmarks and then also Gundar presented Artamana for audiences such as the Byzantine Studies Association of North America and the College of Art and Design at Louisiana State University. I presented the project at professional conferences like the Visual Resources Association, the Art Library Society of North America, the WebWise conferences past March, and now for all of you. So since Gundar had developed a relationship with the alumni office at Robert College, she was able to write an article about Artamana for their quarterly alumni magazine, which focused on his Robert College connection in which we used to further promote the project. These additional promotional efforts led to increased attention and eventually a feature in the Harvard University Gazette, which was very exciting, which allowed Gundar to be interviewed, where she highlighted the value of Artamana's photographs for documenting the changes to Istanbul's urban fabric, which as many of you know has become ever more relevant in light of last week's demonstration. So our outreach efforts eventually also drew the attention of the American friends of Turkey, who invited Gundar to give a lecture at the Turkish Embassy in Washington, D.C. in January of 2012. Gundar and Ali were right before the talk, which is also very well attended. So at this point, the Artamana project is essentially complete, but it's still a going concern. Its outcomes will be long lasting. Through the strategy that we laid out at the start, we were able to repurpose images and metadata in order to successfully create a proof of concept for future digitization projects once we complete our inventory. Better still, the success of the project garnered us the institutional support. It really solidified the institutional support that we needed to continue with that inventory despite no new digitization. Our collections research also underscored the necessity of the inventory for contextualizing collections like Artamana, which might otherwise have been classified as problematic. So far, we've accumulated a body of knowledge that can now be only serve as the foundation for research, description, and dissemination. For instance, all of our Robert College research will be useful as we continue to process the Van Nys archive. The project has definitely expanded our profile both in the wider community and within Dunbarton X itself, where we are now known as the little department that could. And we've reached audiences far beyond our usual suspects, the Byzantinas including scholars in other humanistic fields, library and professionals and historians and practitioners of photography. Or people just interested generally in the history of Istanbul and Turkey such as a local government official who is looking for historical photographs for the new cultural center there. So let's see. I think we have a couple of questions. I might take a short break here. Did you use omeka.net or omeka.org? Well, that's an interesting question. We actually started off with the omeka.net, which is the hosted solution. But then we quickly found that it didn't have the plugins, all of the plugins that we needed. For instance, the map plugin, we wanted to use a commenting feature. So we eventually moved on to the omeka.org solution, which is locally hosted. Shalemar, could I ask a quick question about the omeka in general for those who have not heard about it? Maybe everyone has. But would you mind just giving a quick overview of what it is and what it does? Sure. Omeka is an open-source, basically web publishing platform that has been specifically designed for libraries, archives, and museum collections. And basically it's an open-source software that's developed out of the Center for History and New Media at George Mason University. They're also the fix that bring you Zotero, which is another open-source software tool for bibliographic management of citations. So they've been developing omeka basically as a way for sort of a cost-effective and very simple way for libraries, archives, and museums to be able to publish their collections. I have to say that it's one of those things when you're starting to think about these projects is selecting the right tool. There's certainly lots of other tools out there that are much more robust and much more complex and probably much more flexible. But if you're thinking about, certainly in our case it was sort of a proof of concept, we wanted to make sure that we could get something off the ground really quickly. Omeka is extremely user-friendly as you'll note we used an undergraduate intern to do most of the work in Omeka and to actually build the site. So an undergraduate was able to put it together over the course of two semesters. So that's something to keep in mind as you're thinking about developing your digital projects. Right, so to Linda's question she said could it be easily used without a full-time IT person? Yeah, it was something that we had to sort of cobble together solutions. And I'll come back to that actually in my lessons learned slide. But definitely Linda, I can address that. And let's see, there's another question about who created the tags and how did the idea for using the Google map come about? Well actually the Google map to come to that was really interesting because as we were starting to do the analysis of the images, we were as I said trying to determine who this person was. So most of the collections in ICFA were actually built through fieldwork done by scholars and archaeologists. So we were trying to figure out was this Mr. Artemanov, an archaeologist? And as we started plotting out the points on the map and then also compiling a timeline, we discovered that he photographed all over the city of Istanbul so not only in one location and that also he was photographing throughout all of the months of the year. So typically if you're a scholar that's coming to Istanbul only during a field season, you might only have photographs from May through October. But Artemanov is photographing the entire length of the year and that's how we sort of came upon the idea that he must be a resident there. And as far as the tags, that was something again that was put together between our Byzantine scholar Gundar Varanjolu and then also all of us in staff as librarians and archivists trying to think about what are the terms that our users might want to be able to search for. It's very interesting to have this multi disciplinary team where the Byzantinas was very certain that Byzantinas would want to be able to search for these places by site. So we wanted to be able to have that on the Ameca webpage. But then also as librarians and archivists thinking about that non-scholarly audience that we were targeting, what are some of the other access points that we would want them to be able to engage with the material. Things like church and mosque seem very simplistic from a scholarly point of view, but they're obviously the things that one would think to look for. Another thing that as we started looking through the Friar Sackler images, which had much more content relating to daily life in Istanbul, things like animals or children or women were also another thing to get at some of those other access points that our non-scholarly audiences were looking for. Let's see. So a question from Misha. Do you think that you've limited your audience and their initial search by simply naming the collection after the photographer instead of using a more descriptive title? That's a really good question. And actually we had discussions about that and that was sort of precisely why we put together that cloud, that word cloud so that we would have those additional access points to enable a more general audience to find the material. And actually it's really interesting is that before we built the site, if you did a Google search for Nicholas Artimanov, you'd come up with lots of very strange results, mainly relating to genealogy sites and that sort of thing. But one sort of benefit of naming it after the photographer is if you do a Google search for Nicholas Artimanov now, we're the first thing that shows up. Which is really great. Okay. Some other questions. Did you follow a specific metadata schema, a Dublin core perhaps? Yes. So Omeka comes with Dublin core built in and you can choose sort of a limited Dublin core or a more expanded Dublin core. And we chose to do the more expanded Dublin core so we could rename some of the fields. I do know that there are other metadata plugins that you can use when you are putting together your Omeka site. So I do know that they've put together a VRI core plugin if that's of interest to others. So one thing that's really great about Omeka just as a sort of user community is it's very active and there's a lot of development going on as an open source tool. And once something gets developed, it really is made available to the entire community to implement on their own site. So let's see. Oh, so there's a question from Linda all the way, wow, from New Zealand. Could you please explain why one of the entries lists the photographer as unknown? So that's a great question and it's actually a function of our ongoing inventory is that as we were doing the research about our collections, we were trying to continue to make progress on our inventory. And then also some of our archival processing projects project. So when we were doing the archival processing for the Van Nys archive, we discovered this cache of lantern slides that had been attributed to Van Nys. We're thinking because our predecessors thought that they related to Istanbul, therefore they must be related to Van Nys. But as we started looking at the photographs, they had much more in common stylistically with Art Amanoff who has a very sort of unique approach to photography. As opposed to Van Nys, he was really much more interested in the building structure and as he was doing his architectural survey, how buildings were put together and things like details like brickwork and masonry and that sort of thing. Whereas we found that these lantern slides had much more in common with the way that Art Amanoff tends to frame his photography in very sort of dynamic and dramatic ways. But they aren't labeled as such. We really do believe that they are Art Amanoff photographs, but we can't be absolutely certain. So for now we put the photographer as unknown. Great, thank you so much Shalmer. Did you see Dave's question about Joomla template? Would it have provided the same results as Omeca? Did you have other platforms that you would consider using? We have looked at other things like Joomla, Drupal and also incidentally, Dumbartonix recently rebuilt its website in another open source software named Plone. So we looked at all of those and just sort of concluded that they were a little bit too robust for what we were thinking of doing. So as I said earlier before, it's about sort of selecting the right tool for their project. We could certainly have done something much more robust in those other softwares. But again we were trying to do a proof of concept in a very limited amount of time with very sort of limited resources. So this is what we were able to do and also we were taking advantage of the fact that we had made contact with the Omeca developers at the Center for History and New Media and we're kind of leaning on them a lot during the project as well. Okay, great. And I see one more question in, but maybe I'll keep going and then we'll get to Jamie's question towards the end. Sure. Okay, so I think I was talking about outcomes. Oh, and I had just used the example of the cultural, through the government official in Ephesus who was looking for historical photographs for their new cultural center there. And he had found the Artamana photographs simply by doing a keyword search for Ephesus and coming across our website. And so they were looking for material to actually illustrate some wall panels that they were putting up in the new cultural center. So, but so far I think definitely our favorite has been this Istanbul native who still lives in the neighborhood beyond Karajami. So I'm reprising this photograph here that I showed you earlier. And that Istanbul native who lives in the neighborhood recognized this wooden shack behind Karajami as his grandparent's house and even his father's aunt in the image. So this is something that we had to blog about for sure. So I'm showing you our departmental blog and this is the blog post that we highlighted this particular person and this is another one of those ways that you can do outreach is that even if your project isn't completed we were always constantly posting about our progress on the blog. And so for instance for the Van Nys archive we started doing a processing blog almost from the very day that we started and then that way allowing both the staff and the interns that were working on the project to continue to kind of build an audience for the collection even before it was fully complete and then also for us since we develop so many of our projects with the assistance of interns it gives interns a way to share their work and then you know a URL or a link that they can put on their resume and point to a project that's very tangible. So we were always trying to promote both of our interns and the project simultaneously through things like the blog or other social media like Facebook. So another example that I wanted to talk about is just to illustrate that by making the collection available so broadly visitors to the site are actually adding value to the collection by identifying sites and people for us but also providing additional details about and form our understanding about Artimana's photographic process. So I'm going to highlight these two photographs of the theater at Hierapolis which is near modern-day Pomekole in western Turkey. So we were in touch with a former lawyer in Germany who is retired and his retirement hobby is historical photography. So he contacted us about these two images that he found on the website and he thought that they were taken from the same vantage point, the exact same physical point and he hypothesized that Artimana had actually attempted to create a panorama. So he proved his theory by actually digitally stitching together those two images into one seamless panorama which you see here and we think that he's right and that 70 years after Artimana snapped those two views in 1940 he was actually able to put that panorama together. So just to come back to those outcomes throughout the research process we've developed relationships with these individuals like our new friends in Istanbul in Germany and institutions that we can continue to draw upon in the future. So for example the kind archivist at the fear have been so helpful and supportive of the project gave us permission to reintegrate Artimana's dispersed photographs virtually through the website. So we've now also established a formal internship program with GW hosting three additional interns since Ali and then also receiving additional interest for faculty from faculty at other area universities. And then finally the Artimana project has really provided us with a template for future initiatives which will continue to focus on expanding the audience for our collection. So that formula of a scholar working in conjunction with librarians and archivists with the assistance of course of an outstanding intern has proven successful. And this is a model that we hope to continue to apply in the future. So as you can see from the long list of acknowledgments on the project site this was truly a team effort and in the end the most valuable outcome of the Artimana project was that team building. So by setting an achievable goal with clearly defined roles and taking advantage of the professional strengths of each staff member a small team of a scholar and intern working with librarians and an archivist was able to pull together a project that no one person had the expertise to pull off alone. So this faceted approach to project development was ideal since it allowed us to work simultaneously on a special project like Artimana while continuing to make steady progress on larger long-term projects such as that inventory and archival processing. But more intangibly Gundar and Ali's detective work produced an exciting and stimulating work environment that sparked the team's creativity really and enthusiasm for all of our other projects. So we now want to do what we did for Artimana which is give him an identity and give his photograph a new life in the digital realm for all of the individuals represented in our collections such as Robert Van Nice and Thomas Wettermore who I've mentioned before. And now we have a whole new audience for that work so whether blogs by scholars like the ancient world online here. Technology blogs blogs by other libraries, archives and museums including the Smithsonian and then actually perhaps even more excitingly Artimana is starting to gain an audience among image users for their intrinsic value as photographed with exceptional quality so whether by enthusiasts on Tumblr as you can see here faculty and students at visual resources collections or artists and photographers on Pinterest. Lessons learned with these new audiences come some hard questions important lessons that we learn through the course of the project. So despite our ability to get that proof of concept off the ground it also highlighted the pain points that would impede any future progress for more ambitious projects on a larger scale. Our lack of an IT department would be an insurmountable roadblock so we began to advocate internally to address that need. Our lack of server admin expertise became most glaringly delight actually when the website was hacked due to improper security setup and then we had to hire an outside consultant to rectify that problem. So confronting the fact that digital projects couldn't be properly executed ad hoc by staff without the proper training and expertise was a painful but I think necessary lesson for us and our administration to learn. Also we began to recognize that building an audience isn't an ending itself. So digital projects often fall into the trap of dying on the vine once they were released. But in order to cultivate these hard one new audiences that you've won you have to continue to engage them with new content and build upon your past efforts to ensure future success. So for example we have continued to collaborate with our colleagues at the Fear Sackler and recently completed the upload of those fear photographs which are part of the Myron and Beeman Smith collection to the Ameka site. So in this way we virtually reconnected Artemonus dispersed 50 years after it was split between Dumbarton Oaks and the Fear Sackler. And as with the server admin we knew that we lacked the in-house expertise to identify there's Ottoman sites represented in the new images. So we arranged for ICFA's inaugural international internship. Will Harper is a graduate student at Coach University in Istanbul and he provided the metadata for the images. And now as a student of Ottoman art and architecture in Istanbul he was able to actually physically trace Artemonus footsteps visiting many of the sites that he photographs such as the Goose fountain which I'll show here and the sculpture in that fountain had actually been stolen unfortunately in 2000 so here's a sad picture of the missing sculpture making Artemonus photographs which I show here really an invaluable documentation of a work of art that's now forever lost not to mention just a very charming portrait of children in an Istanbul of a bygone era. And then now moving into actually despite moving on to other opportunities beyond Dumbarton Oaks, Gundur and Ali continue to develop the Artemonus project which has become something of a shared of session with them. So Gundur who you can see here on the right is now a fellow at the Coach University Research Center for Anatolian Civilization and she will be curating an exhibit on Artemonus photography which will be opening later this month June 25th I believe. So Ali who graduated from GW and is now pursuing a master's degree in public history at New York University is co-curating that exhibit and also co-authoring the opening catalog. So we're so thrilled that Gundur and Ali will finally have a venue to publish all of their fantastic detective work and the catalog will also include essays by colleagues from the Friar Sackler and scholars and staff at Dumbarton Oaks. So even from afar ICFA was involved in the planning process providing scans to the exhibition planners which are transferred from ICFA scanner on to these mocked up gallery walls via Dropbox. So we're really excited by the upcoming exhibition which will no doubt introduce Artemonus work and ICFA's collections to a much wider international audience. There's even talk or a rumor that the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church in Istanbul will be in attendance at the opening. And believe it or not we continue to find new Artemonus photographs. Ever this loose Gundur and Ali's research for the exhibition catalog turned up Artemonus images in the Robert College Archives at Istanbul as well as those in New York at the Rare Book and Manuscript Library at Columbia University. So all of this for a Russian photographer, engineer from Turkey who wasn't a Byzantanist or a scholar of any sort and has happened to be a talented amateur photographer during a time of unprecedented archaeological activity in his adopted city. And who until recently was just a mysterious man in some old binders. So over the past two years through the creativity of Gundur, Ali and the rest of the ICFA team and with the invaluable assistance and collaboration of wonderful people along the way we've managed to put not just a face but also this impressive body of work to that name. So thank you to all of you for listening in and why don't we open it up for questions. Thank you so much, Shalimar. That's fascinating. We've had some questions. I've kind of grouped them up together. I wanted to get to Jamie's question about do you have anything formal employees set up to evaluate users or to the site or any other kind of valuation metrics that are you collecting? Yeah, so we installed Google Analytics embed code on the website. So we're tracking usage and from there you can actually see what countries are coming from, what languages, what browsers they're using. So it's very interesting and we certainly started seeing spikes after we would post things on Facebook or another update to the blog or certainly after WebWise when I came back and I first gave the project demonstration there was definitely an uptick in usage. So that was really exciting and also Google Analytics also allows you to see how long people are staying on certain sites to the site. So are they just finding something on Google using a search term and then bouncing out or are they actually spending a lot of time within the site exploring it. So we have both types of users and it's very interesting to be able to break them out that way. Great, that's great. A couple questions about your tagging and cataloging. Do you allow users to do social tagging because they have to just email you with any additional information that you think should be added to the record? Yeah, so we enabled, that was one of the plugins that we definitely wanted to enable on the Emeka site is a commenting plugin. So at the bottom of every data record you'll see a commenting section where you can either suggest additional tags or and then also some identifications. It turns out that most people prefer to email actually. So we haven't had too many comments coming in from that commenting feature. Okay and does the site support wildcard searching? It should, yeah. I think that that was built into Emeka but I can certainly double check for you. Okay. Tiffany asked a really great question. You mentioned using Facebook and I know a lot of sites are very interested in using social media and pushing out content over social media but can sometimes get a little bit of a challenge in deciding who at their institution gets to post and what you post. So she specifically says do you have a separate presence for this project on Facebook? Do you just use the Dunbart and Oaks Facebook profile when you have information to post on this project? Yeah, that's a really great question and I'm sure it's something that many of you have encountered at your institution. So it's sort of a mix here at Dunbart and Oaks because you're kind of classic lamb. We are a library. We have archives and a museum within the same institution. We also have those gardens. So if somebody wants to joke that we're actually a lamb but all of those departments have their own individual identities. So what started happening early on is that each department would create its own social media presence and what we started to do is try to advocate internally as an institution to have much more sort of institutional presence while still allowing for the sort of unique communities that build up especially around the three scholarly fields that we represent. The Byzantinas tend to like to talk to each other versus the pre-Columbianists and so on and so forth. But what we tried to do in the Library and Archives was instead of each of us creating our own Facebook page is to have a joint Library and Archives Facebook page that is in addition to a Facebook page that was earlier created by the museum. So what the two Facebook pages do is really try to highlight kind of individual highlights from each of those various collections while our Director's Office actually started a Facebook page that is much more institutional in nature. So more kind of updates about the organization in general as opposed to specific items coming from specific collections. So I think it's a work in progress. We're really looking a really great resource is the Smithsonian Libraries who've actually put together an institutional social media policy so that I think there's something in the order of sort of 40 libraries that are all trying to create a space for themselves online and how do you do that without it being just completely a free-for-all. So they've developed an institutional social media policy that not only governs things like Facebook but then also blogs and Twitter and Pinterest and so on and so forth. So I think that would be a really great thing to kind of think about when you're designing your projects is how you're going to promote them and through what channels, either your own or something through the institution. I can speak for ICFA is that we really find the departmental blogs to be a really great vehicle to again talk about lots of kind of behind the scenes type issues about what goes into archival processing and what are the challenges that we face preservation-wise. And we kind of see it as a way to educate our audiences about the work that librarians and archivists do which actually helps make them better researchers. So when they come to the archives they know some of the issues potentially that have come up about the collection that they're looking at or they might have seen something on the blog about something that they might not have been interested in initially but sort of got turned on that way. And that is a departmental blog. There's also other blogs at Dumbarton Oaks that focus on specific sort of projects. There's also a Dumbarton Oaks interns blog. So again as I said it's a work in progress and it's something that we should probably try to kind of institutionalize and make much more cohesive. But what I think we really like about social media is it's a way to promote what you're doing to audiences that you might not even expect existed out there. That's great. Thank you so much. I know a lot of people are struggling with that so it's great to have some references. On the online community we have an archive webinar about using social media. Now we have some inevitable questions about copyright and web security. So Joan has asked did you have any concerns about whether these images could be copied from the online exhibit or from your site or saving their images on social media? No we really wanted to get it out as widely as possible. We did install a creative commons license that is sort of non-commercial with attribution. And some folks are better at it than others. But I think as a research institution affiliated with Harvard University, these are really collections that we want to get out there as far as possible. And a treat to be known Artemonoff was this amateur photographer and he really was not able to get much wide parlance for these images which I think are really stunning. So being able to put them up on the website and get people looking at them I think has been really, really rewarding for us. I think it's a cost benefit analysis there might be one person that is posting and we certainly know there are tons of Facebook pages in Turkey especially where they are posting images and not attributing them. So we've sort of taken a selective approach to that where we can sort of identify people and ask them please to attribute the repository. And in most cases they're very good about it once you point it out to them. Great. And so then this is not covered under copyright because of their age, right? Yeah. Oh, and then the thing is that I should address that too is that a lot of the reason why we did do as much biographical research as possible is that we wanted to find out if Artemonoff had any errors. So that we could find out if indeed we had to sort of get permission. And in fact we were able to, thanks to again to Ali's resourcefulness, dig up his will from the probate court in San Diego and we were able to track down he didn't mention specifically his photographs in the will but we were able to track down two people that he listed not as his executors but as sort of secondary beneficiaries and we approached them and one was a sort of distant descendant and they were absolutely okay with it. So to some degree we did our due diligence to try to make sure that in fact it was okay to share this material. Okay. And did you see Nicole's question about was there any original donor cited on any of these images? Was that an issue? Again, yeah. So it didn't come with any documentation but we were able to find an accession log paper accession log where it said that the rights were transferred. So again, we're relying on the sort of paper documentation that we were able to come up with during the course of our investigation. Great. I just had a question and people, we still have about 30 minutes. Do you have any more slides, Shalemar? No, I think there's slides. But we still have about 30 minutes so if you have other questions feel free to type them in. I have my own. So it just sounds like a really great internship relationship that you had and I just wondered you had a contact with a local university but for others that might want to harness student help what would be your tips on either selecting a student qualities to look for? It just seemed to be a real integral part of the success of this project. Yeah, absolutely. And it was through the success of that first internship with Ali that we were able to get much more kind of organized with how we recruited students. So I understand before I arrived at Dunbart-Noix there were lots of students kind of coming in and out and a new policy was instituted right when I started that every student who was an intern had to get course credit. So I think in the past many of the internships might have focused on things just straight up digitization or kind of relabeling or rehousing things that didn't have as much of an educational component. So the new policy kind of forced us to really think about what are we trying to get out of the internship and was the student trying to get out of it. So that was why it was really great to initially work with a faculty member to kind of sit down and talk about some of the projects that we had on hand what types of projects would be of interest or something that they wanted to try out say as a possible career choice. Did they want to be art historians? Did they want to be potentially archivist? Did they want to work in museums? So really sitting down with the student and the faculty advisor and tailoring the project to create a learning experience but then also something tangible and I mentioned that earlier about the blog being a URL that they can put on their page. So every time that we engage an intern we sit down we actually go through a contract that lists a description of the project what the tasks are that we expect the student to finish over the course of the semester and then also the goals and then finally what the end result is. So whether that's a website like this one, whether it's a report assessment report maybe on a collection that was pre-processed and it's something that you can kind of calibrate depending on the level of the student that you're engaging. So we are lucky in D.C. to have access to library programs for graduate students. So the University of Maryland has a library program and so does Catholic University. So they're looking for a very different internship experience, much more practical and hands-on whereas we found that the undergraduates really need an educational component that kind of lights them up intellectually in addition to whatever tasks that we have them accomplish. And part of that is also we're lucky in that we have a Byzantine scholar on hand and as part of that internship agreement we're able to give a pretty comprehensive bibliography before the project even starts to get the student to start thinking about where this project is in relation to their own studies, if it's a field that they're familiar with, or to introduce them to a field that they're not familiar with and having that again a sort of very substantive educational experience. It means that maybe the projects that we do take longer because the students don't have a lot of time during the semester and they have a lot of competing things that they're doing but I think in the whole it really creates a much more symbiotic relationship between us as a department and then the student and what they're getting out of it. That's great. We have some good technical questions coming in. Could you determine what kind of photographic equipment Artemoff might have used? Yeah, and that actually refers back to that misidentification as Richard. For A actually we found out that the R stands for a Rolex flex camera which results in this two and a quarter by two and a quarter format. So part of the research that Gundur and Ali have been doing for the online exhibit is actually starting to try to figure out was this camera one that was affordable at the time, was it one that Artemoff would have treasured and used over time from what we see here the material that we see in the collection both here at Dumbarton and at the Frustachler is really limited to this 1935 to 1945 time period and was that simply a function of that was when he had the time to do the photography or was that when he had access to that camera? So it's an open question that they're still trying to think through for the exhibit. Great. So when it came to digitizing these photos do you, I don't know if you were involved with that project at all but do you recall what resolution or other process you used? Yeah, so it's a two and a quarter by two and a quarter so it's a fairly small negative so we used a fairly high DPI of 2400 so that results in about sort of a 5200 on the long side 5500 on the long side digital image which we first generated the master tests and then from there created various surrogates for web use and then also for a lot of the presentations that we're doing. Great. And what file format? Yeah, TIF and then we would generate JPEGs as access copies from there. Okay. And then on format I guess Linda's asking about what metadata there is for a format that's just they're black and white prints, right? They're black and white negatives that were originally nitrate and this is an interesting thing for those of you that have photographic collections that you're going through there was that point in the 80s and basically everybody was reformatting nitrates to safety so Artemonoff fell into that category so the photographs that you see, the images that you see here were actually scanned from the safety negatives which had been created from the original nitrates and one of the things that we really do regret is that we haven't been able to handle the original negatives because they would have been even more stunning but as you're going through your collections identifying the items that might be second generation is also really useful when you're trying to think about what these images actually are. Great. Let's see. Valeria, sorry, wondered who was doing how you're doing digitization at your institution. Do you have contractors for mass digitization? Do you have conservators handling these? You said that was a huge project that you were in the middle of and this was sort of an interim activity that you did in addition as you took a pause from digitization at your institution but I guess you were more about the digitization. Sure, in the past and I don't know many institutions might have a similar history is that there was a lot of mass digitization going on in the early 2000s and we were certainly a case in point so there are probably about 30,000 slides that were digitized by an outsourced vendor sometime in the early 2000s but then the capacity to be able to continue at that level really wasn't built into the infrastructure here locally so between the early 2000s and when I arrived it was really dependent on interns and again doing it at that different type of internship that wasn't it wasn't mandated at the take for course credit so we had a number of sort of interns coming in during the summer and then also during the semester that were just getting experience with digitizing so Artemonoff was actually done I think over the course of a summer and a fall by two different interns which is again actually to think about your workflow really interesting because depending on how well you documented your workflow from the summer intern how are they going to be able to translate that to the fall intern with these sort of multi-phase projects so another thing that we've tried to institute with our interns is to do work journals so one of the things that we found really challenging when I first arrived is that we sometimes didn't know why our predecessors made certain decisions about the collections and inevitably we would do a lot of work to try to figure it out and then three months later find the exact piece of paper in a cabinet somewhere that explained it but what we've asked all of our interns to do in addition to all of the tasks and the sort of the end product that they have to produce to maintain a daily work journal so that if they're finding something in the collection or they're running across a problem or they have a question they're recording that so we now have a documentation from intern to intern about what decisions were made and then when and why which I think will be really, really important for whoever comes after us Yeah that's a great, great tip I think that happens in a lot of places even smaller institutions that just have a really great idea so Linda was wondering too have you seen the physical interest in physical access increase now that you've put materials out online? Yeah and something that we've definitely marked an increase in is the number of reproduction requests so more and more people are wanting to publish these in their scholarly journals and so on and so forth and that's been a really heartening and as I mentioned just as an aside early in one of my slides about how Artomonos Fidographs of St. Euphemia actually had been reproduced in the scholarly publication by the archaeologist A.M. Schneider that he had never been credited for them and in doing more research in the Van Nys archive I actually came across a letter from Van Nys where he tells another scholar that wants to use Artomonos Fidographs, whatever you do definitely credit him because he got kind of cheated out of that credit in the Schneider publication so we've been really excited by the number of Byzantinas and also again other scholars that have really found these images useful in their work and are starting to publish them more and a really interesting example of that is there was an NEH sponsored seminar for college teachers that focused on the history of World War I. So I also mentioned this very briefly in the beginning that clue that we have that Artomonos was the son of the Russian ambassador and it turned out he was actually the son of a Russian military attaché turns out that that military attaché was a general Victor Artomonos who may or may not have had a role in the sort of the spark that started World War I when he was stationed in Serbia and may or may not have sort of given the task that go ahead to the black hand when they assassinated Archduke Ferdinand so they became very interested in the collection just as a sort of document of the history around Turkey during World War I and all of the sort of the very international community that was going in and out of the city at that time. So this is again another way that we were able to expand our audience beyond the Byzantinas and we have already knew that we were here to these other fields which has been very very rewarding actually for us. That's great. I guess I just had another oh, let's see, Valeria has another good question about quality control for the circuits and you know as you're doing a digitization project and sort of you sort of touched on that but and I'm not sure this happened while in Barton Oaks or not. Yeah, so usually at least and this is what we've been doing since when we do very small digitization projects usually for publication requests is that if it's an intern or a sort of part-time person that's doing the digitization there's always a staff member who will be doing the quality control just to make sure that the surrogates right are of sufficient quality for publication also to make sure that you know particularly if you're managing interns to make sure that your data sheets are robust enough so that you know as a student is going through all of the files and digitizing the negative to make sure that there's a match between the image that they're looking at and then the data record that they're looking at so that you're not kind of switching file names out and that sort of thing. Okay, great and we wondered, Alinda wondered also did you have any issues with the digitizing of the lantern slides? I know that was pretty straightforward, Linda. Yeah, it was you know just in the same workflow that we used for the negatives. Okay, great. The one issue that we did have and this is actually digitization that the Frere did for their images is that you know as you can see in the collage here the images in the Dumbarnook set are very black and white but the ones at the Frere were actually more sepia toned so they had some sort of calibration issues and they were using volunteers to do their digitization over the course of several months. So as you can see lots of different institutions are using lots of different solutions and some of them can be ad hoc but it has been really fruitful to be able to collaborate with our colleagues at the Frere Sackler and they were really happy to know more about a collection that they knew very little about too and being able to share information back and forth. Great. I'm truly lucky to have a collaborator like that. That's great. Let's see. Valeria, it's another question on the digitization process. Do you have sort of a setup so that you can keep light exposure similar in the middle of a project? Yeah. So everyone's depending on the operator who's actually doing the processing and the consistency. Yeah, so we do incremental checks every now and then and we do lots and lots of test scans at the beginning of any project to try to find the optimal calibration and then also do periodic as I said, kind of checks and test scans to make sure. So kind of an interesting project is that for the exhibit that's going to start in Istanbul later this month about 50 negatives at very, very, very high resolution and that project actually oddly took far longer I think than the digitization of the originals did because we were really trying to get images that would be able to get printed at very large size on the wall. So there was a lot more post-production work that happened with those images. So again, when you're kind of planning out both your digital projects and your digitization in addition to figuring out what is the right tool for what you're trying to do what quality or level of digitization do you need are you trying to get kind of archival files that are going to be the preservation file for your collection or are you trying to create something on a much higher level like for something like a physical exhibit to be able to print out these photographs. So again, it might change from collection to collection or you might only choose to do a subset of a collection that sort of highlights that you think are going to be very frequently reproduced or asked for at that much higher resolution because it does take far longer than through the standard if you're following the NARA guidelines those targets for scanning. Great. I'm going to drag over our link to our evaluation if folks could please just take a minute short just helps us tell IMLS what you thought of today's webinar and if you don't mind just afterward conclude today just going to the site and quickly filling that out we'd appreciate it very much and I just want to remind everyone that we're doing another WebWise reprise at 2 o'clock Eastern this Wednesday and we'll be talking about using digitized collections images in educational materials and this is with the Minnesota Historical Society and they've done some really creative and interesting things with a state curriculum and textbook that I think you'll really enjoy. So I did put out a last call for questions and I was going to ask someone had mentioned in the chat about and this may be just a non-issue when it comes to creative commons licenses did you ever think of doing any kind of watermarking on the images themselves to kind of get that point across? No we hadn't really considered that again we really wanted to get them out as much as we could and our concern would be to get the attribution and folks aren't using it for non-commercial purposes and that's why we were really keen to put the creative commons license rather than much more lengthy and involved sort of legal page about permissions and licensing just because the creative commons licenses are so kind of ubiquitous and easily understood by large audiences. That makes sense. Actually Linda has a really great wrap up question now that you've used Omeka on a proof of concepts project what are your future projects do you have any future projects like this in mind or would you move on to a more robust system like Drupal? Yeah so we did the Omeka for the proof of concept and it worked out really well as I did note there were some pain points that we had to figure out like the server admin issue but also at the same time as I mentioned earlier Dunbart-Nox as an institution has moved over to the Plone open source content management system so we're experimenting with digital online exhibits using Plone just so again we can kind of be part of the institutional solution that's been promulgated here at Dunbart-Nox and there's lots of differences between Plone and Omeka Plone is a little as I said more complex probably closer to a Drupal or a Jumla than Omeka is so I think in going forward again depending on the ambition of the digital project we might go back and forth between the two and it's a sort of trying to calibrate between something that you want to accomplish very quickly versus something that you want to have maybe much more institutional weight behind it. Great, do you have any upcoming projects along these lines or are you keeping you busy enough? Oh yeah so I did briefly mention that we have our films that we mounted up in Vimeo so we are developing an online exhibit to show that so those are films related to the Byzantium Institute's work at high Sophia and Karajami so these are back in white and color films from the 30s and 40s that we actually again found during our inventory in one of the freezers and were able to reformat and have them as digital files that was now posted on Vimeo so we're developing an online exhibit using that in the Plone content management system and then also kind of like the Art Amonov project an online exhibit focusing on Thomas Whittemore who founded the Byzantium Institute so now that we've got this in our blood I think we're going to continue going for these types of projects and using the tools as they arise that fit the project the best so definitely it looks like a couple of you have asked whether I can share my email and I'm absolutely happy to my email address is white as in the color s as in Sam at doaks.org and we're absolutely happy to talk to any of you about the project about Omeka and our experience with it and also you know just to learn about some of the other projects that are out there I think that that was one of the great things about WebWise if you have a chance to go next you definitely do is to just find out about all the amazing things that are going on in the library archives and museum world because lots of different people are doing lots of wonderful things. Yeah I agree I underscore that and there's just no sense and all of us sort of going through the same decision process that you had to when we can learn from each other and learn from the lessons from someone else and get recommendations about different products and different approaches so I really appreciate all your help with this and your presentation today we put some I put some URLs in the chat and we will be putting up Chalamar's presentation as a handout along with a recording on our website today at ConnectingToCollections.org so I encourage you to pass along to fellow colleagues or to review it again if you wish so thanks again for everyone's attendance and great questions and thank you again Chalamar for your time today. Well thanks to you guys and I appreciate the invitation. You're welcome. And again join us Wednesday at 2 o'clock if you're able thanks so much bye bye