 10 o'clock on a given Tuesday, I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech. More specifically, we're talking to Common Cause. Today I'm so excited. Not only Common Cause here with Sandy Ma, who we've talked to many times, but Sylvia Albert, who joins us from where are you Sylvia? You're in Georgia? Watch D.C. Okay, well, it's only a stone's throw, although it could be a zillion miles away too, depending. So let's talk about voting rights. My proposition to you in the name of this discussion, the name of the episode is, is it lost? Is the bill lost? Sylvia, you've been following this day and night, so see what you can do with that question. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. This is an important topic, and I'm glad that you and others are talking about it. Is the bill lost? The question of this particular bill, I think is less important than, is voting rights on a whole lost? Have we really devolved into not having a democracy anymore? And is there a chance to still save things? And I think the answer to that is yes. I absolutely understand the frustration with Senator Manchin in cinema, with the failure of the Freedom to Vote Act and the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act from passing. But I do honestly try very hard to remember that it took a long time for the Civil Rights Act to pass. It took a long time for the Voting Rights Act to pass. John Lewis didn't get across the Edmund Pettus Bridge the first time. It was multiple times before he got across the bridge. So I don't think that voting rights as a whole is completely gone. I think the window for this particular bill seems to have closed with Senators Manchin and cinema, but that doesn't mean that we stop. That means we change tactics and move to the states and other ways to protect the vote. Well, I ask you about that. It's like Sisyphus, the myth of Sisyphus, where you keep trying to get up that hill and you get a part way and then whoop, you slip down again and then you just start again. Didn't we have a voting rights bill in this country? What happened? We did and we do. What happened is that people in power want to stay in power. And the way to do that is to ensure that no new people can vote, right? If I want to stay in power to do that, I only want people who vote for me to be able to vote. And so just that's what's been happening. Things have chipped away at the Voting Rights Act and the reality is that the Voting Rights Act was passed more than 50 years ago. And there are new tactics. Social media didn't exist, the internet didn't exist. There are things that have changed. And so the rules need to also be updated to deal with the current realities and the current threats that we have. Oh, it's hard to understand. I mean, I will sort of collapse what Manchin and cinema did. It's not about the filibuster. It's about voting rights. That's what it was about. And their votes were votes against voting rights. What I don't understand is why anyone, well, maybe you already answered this, why anybody who supposedly represents the people or cares about the future of the country would vote against voting rights. I think you've kind of given an answer but I wonder if you want to embellish, what went through their minds? Do you think they were thinking about the filibuster at all? You think the GOP who would vote against it, Lockstep, knee jerk are thinking about the filibuster. Maybe it's they want to stay in power and they don't care about the country and they don't care about sort of updating our government to meet the social changes that have taken place that are taking place. We're at a real crisis point, don't you think? Oh, I agree. I agree that it's completely about staying in power and regardless of party politicians want to stay in power. I know that people have tried to make this bill a Democrat versus Republican thing. It's really not. It's about having access. It just so happens that Democrats in power think that this bill will help them keep power, right? So it really is neither you're nor there whether or not it's supported by Democrats or Republicans. In this case, yes, the Republican party does not want to lose power by letting people actually have access to the ballot. So they're against it. Senators Manchin and Sinema have calculated for themselves that they can remain in power or maintain whatever power they want, whether it's in the private sector or not. And by continuing to stay with the Republican party in this sense. So I agree. I think that they have made the calculation that they can maintain power by taking these actions and that's what they're doing. I want to get to the question of what, if anything could be done. And one thing you said a minute ago struck me. It said, well, it took several tries to cross the bridge and several tries to get certain rights, certain civil rights in place in this country. But the question I put to you, look at all the things that are happening, all the risks, all the things that Trump revealed about the country or exacerbated. Do we have time? We have time to wait to cross the bridge later again or are we at such risk that we don't have the time? And we are in a situation where if we can't reverse this and soon we will lose. I say we, I mean, Democrats will lose of the Congress completely in 2022, lose the presidency in 2024 and they will have their way with us on public policy. Well, first, sure as you know, Common Cause does not support a particular party and so I can't really speak to you. I can be independent too. And call me a personal believes in democracy. I don't know if that's politicized or a political party or not. Unfortunately these days it does feel like it is, right? It does feel like a political party believes in democracy and one does not. But as I've said, I think that relates to what parties think they can do to maintain power. If we wanna take the bridge analogy further, I would say, you know, maybe we're not crossing the bridge but we're finding ways to get around the bridge. We're going upriver. Upriver, it's out of the box, upriver. Exactly. So we, you know, this might not have been successful but I'm sure you've been hearing already about various senators working on a bipartisan fix to the Electoral Count Act which would protect against some of the shenanigans that the, stop the steel groups have been working on. And we also have, you know, as always litigation, yes, the Voting Rights Act is not in its former position and it's not as strong as it can be but we will take those chances as well. We'll work in state to pass good policies and where there are bad policies work with good election officials who actually want to help people have access to the ballot. So there is not one avenue. This would have been a great avenue and I still think it's possible in the future and it would have really helped ensure that everybody had the same access to the ballot across the country, regardless of their demographics and their zip code or their race but that doesn't mean that we can't still be fighting the fight on the ground and we have to, right? If the first time the Voting Rights Act failed to pass everybody gave up and said, well, I guess we didn't make it. We wouldn't be here, right? You continue to gain momentum by working at the local level and I completely understand that sometimes that's hard to remember and sometimes it's hard to see the future of doing that but the power is with the people and when we activate it, we can make real change. Okay, I'd like to break that down a little bit, unpack that as they say. On the question of whether you can break the, it's like Biden wants to break the Build Back Better bill into several parts and okay, there's just possibility there of reaching bipartisan back scratch kinds of projects but I'm voting, the reason as I get it the reason that the Republicans don't want any voting rights or reform or to unroll what they have done over the past few years is because they want to shut people out of voting. So if you say, well, why don't we divide that bill up into component parts, let's pass a little this and a little that, they're going to have the same objection to every component part and they're not going to do it. For example, Jerry Mandarin, they're not going to do it. And so, I'm not sure that even the Counting Act or the Electoral College reforms and all that, if the status quo satisfies their need to stay in power, they're not going to do it. So I think my own saying, I'm interested in your response, my own thinking is that that's dead end because you know already, they have the votes, they have mansion, cinema, you know, no reform to silver filibuster and anything that smells like voting reform, they're not going to do it. So why even try it? And your point is well taken, you have to do something, something we have to do, because we're alive and we believe in this country. And so I would focus my attention on the courts and what about the first part of that? You agree with me that breaking it down isn't going to work? Well, I think there are two things there. First, the Electoral Count Act, I would point there actually is a bipartisan group of senators who are working on that and that would include the senators who did not support the attempt to overthrow the government. So we can get to 60 votes actually by with those senators in place and there. And so I think that's an important possibility, obviously we don't think it's enough. We think the Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act are just as important, more important. And as to the other, I would point out actually that a lot of these reforms that we are championing in the Freedom to Vote Act are in Republican jurisdictions our states, right? Alaska has automatic voter registration through their oil dividends, right? There are lots of states that have absentee voting that have drop boxes. Places that are hard are Utah is 100% vote by mail, right? So even states that are strongly Republican have used these policies and used them well. What we're seeing now is right in attempt to ensure that in swing states and states that Republicans don't have power over that they don't allow more people to vote and lose power there. But I think it actually is really important to note that Republicans across the country use these policies and have used them for years. And in that way, I think that they can be successful at the local level. Well, you know, Tip O'Neill used to say all politics is local. So, but that makes a different kind of effort by common cause and other organizations that would like to fix this because it means you've got to go jurisdiction by jurisdiction legislature by legislature, governor by governor and you won't be successful in all of them but you couldn't shore it up that way. I would have to agree with that. And that's certainly a worthy thing. It also stands as a beacon to the other states and to the GOP for that matter. But let's move on to, well, let's have a moment with Sandy. Okay. I'm happy to let Sylvia voice, you know, boy you us and fill us up with hope. Well, how are we doing in terms of the, you know, voting restrictions, suppression or, we have a pretty good mail-in ballot arrangement here in Hawaii. People say that Hawaii is, you know, it's a liberal state as far as voting is concerned. Is that true? Hawaii has done very well with our voting policies. We have online voter registration. So people could register to vote online, update their voter registration and check that their voter registration information is current. We have same day voter registration. So come election day, if you want to register to vote, you can go to an in-person voter service center and register to vote and vote. We have a vote by mail. It was passed in 2019 and first started in 2020 where ballots are mailed to all registered voters. And we just passed in 2021 automatic voter registration. So when you go to the DMB or go get a state ID, your information and you opt in to register to vote when you get a driver's license or a state ID, the information is automatically transferred to the county elections division. And so then the ballot will get mailed to you because we're all vote by mail state. So we do have a lot of ways for people to register to vote in Hawaii. So we are one of the really great states to become a registered voter and get a ballot. We should be proud. Sylvia, you should be proud. You know, Common Cause has been watching this issue in Hawaii and we have, the bottom line is we have a good system here. You should be proud. I'm very proud of Sandy's work. Sandy has been a one woman warrior the last few years in Hawaii. And you know, as you pointed out there, Hawaii has some great policies and having those policies implemented well is really important. And that's what people like Sandy are doing as making sure and helping election officials has to find to make sure those policies are enacted in an equitable way across Hawaii. So I'm very proud to be working with Sandy. The implementation is key. Implementation is key. I mean, we could always have improvements. For example, for our vote by mail system we could always have more drop boxes and more in-person voter service centers. Not everyone has a mailbox. For example, our unsheltered population cannot have a dropout, cannot have a piece of mail to them and they certainly have a right to vote. If they're a US citizen intend to remain in Hawaii and want to vote. So we need more in-person voter service centers. So yes, there could always be improvements to the process. And you're working on them? We always work on improvements to our election system and how to modernize it. We like a, you know, notification of translation services to all voters, you know, people who would like the ballot to be translated in language that they are comfortable voting in. We are working on that for the 2022 session. There is a few bills, there are a few bills dealing with voter pamphlets. Voting around in 2022, we hope people take that up seriously. We're also working on ranked choice voting for special federal elections and vacant county council seats to bring ranked choice voting to Hawaii. So those are some bills we're also working on. Great. I take it that voting and voting rights are a very important issue for common cause and you are focusing on that as much or more than you did in the past because it's more important now. Am I right, Celia? Well, I would say, you know, the common causes mission has always been, you know, a country that is of buy and for the people. And I think, you know, it started as an organization that was more focused on ethics reform but and money in politics. But as we've grown and as the country has changed, I think it's been very important to realize that, you know, the Voting Rights Act was the start of a fight. It was not the beginning of it, right? And ensuring access to the ballot is really the only way to ensure that we are a country of buy and for the people. Yeah, well, we're at great risk now. So I want to explore with you, Celia, a couple of things. One is the courts, the courts. You mentioned the courts and I think about the courts too. And for the lack of, you know, action in Congress is very so sad. And, you know, the difficulty of dealing with Republican-led states, you have to go to court. On the other hand, there are some judges who were appointed to the federal bench, for example, over the past few years that in my view should not be sitting on the federal bench or not qualified, but they got there anyway, thanks to Mitch McConnell and some of his friends in the Senate and many of his friends in the Senate. So I guess what I'm asking is how confident are you as you can get some of these obviously outrageous provisions that were adopted in Republican legislators legislatures around the country thrown out in the courts. It sounds like it's a long slog and it's the timing issue there and that you don't have any real guarantee that the courts will agree with voting rights. That is true, there is never a guarantee. We obviously don't have the strength of the Voting Rights Act as it was and as it should be. And that is unfortunate, but that does not mean that we don't give up. There are also a good amount of state constitutions that maintain a right to vote and allow us other avenues for litigation. And I also wanna point out, even with those who are on the bench that were appointed by the former president, we have seen those individuals still follow the law and maintain our democracy. In the over 60 lawsuits that President Trump filed and his friends filed to try to overturn the results of the 2020 election were all thrown out and a good amount of them by Trump appointed judges. So while we agree that there are judges on the bench who have taken actions that we don't agree with and we think are unconstitutional, we also think that there's still a chance and we still have to keep fighting. Oh, I totally agree, big fight. It's a sort of a national fight because there's so many jurisdictions and so many provisions and they're different. Some of them are more creative even, creative solutions like Roe v. Wade in Texas. That's really creative. You gotta give them credit for creativity, dark creativity, but creativity nevertheless. So okay, but in the end, you're gonna have splits. You're gonna have some judges who agree that voting rights is important for the future of the country and others who are oblivious to that or who are politicized about that. And ultimately, the likelihood is gonna get to the Supreme Court in some kind of crunch case or maybe a series of crunch cases over voting rights. And one of the issues there is when? When is it gonna get to the Supreme Court? And the second one is what are they gonna do? Can we rely on them to be non-political? Can we rely on them not to be politicized? How do you feel about that? Can we rely on the Supreme Court after all the litigation and lower courts? Well, I think as you said, the courts are not guaranteed and that is whether local or the Supreme Court. Just do wanna point out though that cases that are brought under the state constitutions go to the US Supreme Court. They go to the final arbiter of the state, which is usually the state Supreme Court or some states have weird names for them. Like I think New York's name for its Supreme Court is not Supreme Court, it's something else. That's right, the New York Supreme Court is the court of general jurisdiction. Yes, we all learned that watching law and order because we were very confused. I learned it in law school myself, but okay. So there are, as I said, we never rely on one court, we never rely on one judge, we never rely on one avenue. So we continue to try advocacy, litigation, grassroots support, registering voters, getting people out there. We will try every tool in the toolkit and we believe that a combination of them will get us where we need to go. It may take a while, but we will get there. Okay, I'm with you on that. But let me ask, you have a tonning problem because some of these cases in all of those courts could be stuck and unresolved by November or even November of 2024. Matter of fact, if you're talking about elections these days, it's earlier than November, it could be October, it could be September. So clearly what happens if we have lots of cases but no resolution prior to election day. And then of course on and after election day, we have the efforts of the GOP to muck up the results. Well, you know, what we have when there are bad policies, which there are in all states, regardless of their red or blue, what we have is advocates on the ground doing whatever they can help ensure that people have access to the ballot and that their ballot counts. So even where people can't use absentee voting in Texas, unless they have an excuse, we are still in Texas helping people get access to the ballot in other ways. So, you know, there is no one size it's all solution, but it really involves a lot of people, a lot of grassroots support, a lot of advocates, people helping people have access to the ballot. And also the media plays a role. I mean, it's culpable in some ways for not calling out, you know, false rhetoric or misinformation or disinformation as much as they should, but the media also acts as in the proper circumstance as an independent watchdog and helping, you know, shine a light on bad practices. And so the media is also helping, you know, draw attention to the issues on the ground. And so, you know, like UJ having common cause on to talk about these issues and, you know, highlighting the importance of voting rights, you know, that helps us with our work, that helps us, you know, recruit volunteers, you know, to do our work. So the media is a very helpful partner. So thank you. Well, you know, I totally agree, Sandy. It's an excellent point. But I tell you what I worry about, you know, you have various kinds of media and media with various agendas. And, you know, there's a lot of noise in social media, a lot of confusion coming out of it. They don't necessarily want to educate people. They prefer to confuse them. And so you have the risk of the electorate, the public being confused by the time of the late. They don't know whether they can vote or not vote. They're not necessarily educated on the latest changes, developments, expectations, and either A, they don't vote. It's an epochs on all of this. I'm really tired. I have media fatigue. I'm not gonna do, I'm not participating anymore. And I see that happening now. I think it'll happen in the future. And the question is, to your point, Sandy, how can we encourage the media not to confuse people? How can we encourage people to look at the media that is not out there confusing them? I'm gonna be asking you the same question, Sylvia, trust me. So what are your thoughts about that, Sandy? Well, you know, that's a really interesting question. There are some, you know, media that is more informational versus, I don't know what it is, Sylvia, you can help me. That is... Entertainment, I think parts of, I think certain hours are called entertainment and only maybe one hour a day of these days of the 24 hour news cycle is actually called information. Yeah, it's just a very salient point. So there's informational versus entertainment. And honestly, we in Hawaii and I think across the nation try to work with a lot of younger people who are just turning 18 and just getting the right to vote. And they are really engaged. They are very media savvy. They understand misinformation, disinformation. They are interested in climate change. They're interested in voting rights. They are well read in the civil rights movement and they are worried for the future of our country. They are worried for their ability to make a living. They're interested in living wage. Like I said, climate change, housing, you know, they are very engaged and they want to vote. They are well read on candidates. They are volunteering. So while there may be some people who are disengaged, I think there are a certain segment of the population who are ready to go. And so... Yeah, Sylvia, Sandy's great. Did you notice that? I did. I did. Yeah, yeah. Sandy's great. So Sylvia... I'm not just saying that because I want to sleep on her couch when I... Why you not pay for a hotel. Fair enough. I want to ask you about something that has surfaced in this discussion. You know, I mean, my notes tell me to ask you guys what can be done? And the low hanging fruit really is what you guys have been talking about. It's okay. There's limitations. There's suppression, there's discouragement, there's disengagement, but common cause and other similarly situated organizations can encourage people to get down there and vote and override, overcome the obstacles that the GOP has put in their way. To be determined to wait on line all day, all night, whatever it takes to be absolutely willful, totally determined to vote. And I think that's got to be part of your program. It sounds like it is part of your program. And it's a statement of commitment. It's a statement of patriotism. It's a statement of belief in the country, the democracy and in the electorate. So even if not everybody who should have been able to vote and vote, even if there's going to be confusion and even litigation, God knows what's going to happen after the election day. It's incumbent on us and including common cause and everybody involved to encourage people whoever can should. How do you feel about that? Well, absolutely. I absolutely encourage people to vote. I do want to point out, right? You know, we do everything we can to overcome barriers. There are some voters who are not going to be able to overcome those barriers. And I don't ever want anybody to say it to think that they are unpeachurotic because they were unable to do so. You know, if you've got to work a job to feed your family and there is no way to get out there because the county has just consolidated all polling locations into one location in an area where there's no public transit as is the attempt happening right now in Lincoln County in Georgia. You know, I want them to know that we still have their back. But besides that, besides, you know, going out and vote, voting, being active, being engaged, you know, it is the grassroots pressure. It is you speaking up for your neighbor who maybe doesn't have the time, effort, or even knowledge of what's happening to be able to speak up for themselves. So take note that even if you have never had any problems going to vote, if you think that it's easy for you, congratulations, I'm really happy for you. No struggles that your neighbors have and stand up for them and speak out for them when they can't speak out for themselves. What about accountability? We've seen some of that about Christian cinema in Arizona where, you know, various elements of the Democratic Party are sanctioning her in some way. But in the long-term, and if you take a long-term look at this, which you suggest we should do, what about accountability? Is somebody stands in the way of voting rights in this country, is standing in the way of a fundamental principle of the country? And over time, it should not be let off on that. It should be accountability. Is that part of the program? Should I be thinking about that? Should we be thinking about it? It's not just cinema. It's a lot of people who stand in the way of voting rights for their own agendas, their own silo, self-interest, what have you. We need to identify them. We need to make sure that they don't get into office again. Well, you know, common cause doesn't support or oppose candidates, but we do support voters, you know, taking a look at the issues that matter and voting and, you know, voting for the candidates that support the things that they support. Really, every election is accountability, right? That is the reality. Who are accountable to your constituents? And if you're not doing things in their best interests, it is up to them, and it is their right to vote in a way that supports their best interests. So we advocate for all voters to be aware of what's happening, to understand what their representatives are voting for and against, and to choose who would really represent your best interests. Yeah, and the best interests of the country. You know, I think we've gotten into this thing about I'm from West Virginia, for example. I'm going to represent the interests of West Virginia and the guys that fill my coffers, but I don't really care much about the country in general or the future of the country. That's bad thinking. In my view, every person in Congress has a duty to the whole country, and we seem to have forgotten that. It's not acceptable going forward. It's not Mr. Smith going to Washington. It isn't really. So we're out of time, Sandy. I wanted you to give us the website that you would like us to look at, maybe to support you guys and give any closing remarks that you'd like to give and including comments about Sylvia. You can talk about Sylvia now. The website is commoncause.org. That is our national website. And you can find both the national organization and our state chapter on that website. And Sylvia is the director of voting and elections for the national office, and she supports the state offices. So anytime I have a question about any voting policy or elections policy, I contact Sylvia. She is a great resource of all voting and elections information. So we are so lucky to have Sylvia. And so that is Sylvia in a nutshell. Sylvia is wonderful to have around. Well, we're lucky to have you both, Sandy and Sylvia. Sylvia, can you give us your closing comments through the public for the record, what you would like to have to think and take away from all of this? And let me say before you even begin that I truly in my heart appreciate your work. And in your way, you're saving the nation and we need you. We need you so badly. We want you to continue to do what you do. You're a critical feature in the landscape of our democracy. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And as Sandy said, so are you and other media who are really bringing this to the attention of voting. And it really is paying off, right? More voters are talking about voting rights now than when I entered this field. If you'd said the words Jerry Mann during 10 years ago, the policy wonks knew what you were talking about, but the man on the street did not. And I think we're changing that. As Sandy said, we go to commoncause.org. I would also encourage you to go to protectthevote.net and that is the way that you can get involved with our grassroots organizing groups. So maybe you wanna send some letters or call some Congress people or reach out to voters in other states. If you feel like your representatives are already on the right side, you can get engaged. And I know sometimes, and it's been a hard year for a variety of different reasons. I know sometimes it's easy to get very disillusioned, but I really, really remind myself of how far representative John Lewis came from sitting on a lunch counter at Woolworth's to being one of the most powerful people in Congress. And you couldn't have told that 20-year-old boy that that's where he was going to be. So sometimes it's a long road, but we keep fighting and that's the only way we get there. Thank you, Sylvia, Albert. Thank you, Sandy Ma. Thank you, Common Cause. We're counting on you. We're counting on you to help us to save us. Thank you so much. Thank you. Uh-huh.