 Yeah. So kind of a long story. I'll try and make it short. Out of high school, I played basketball through high school. Didn't really look to go play anywhere. I went on a two-year church mission. So that was kind of my focus, got back. Kind of wanted to play, but wasn't a super huge deal. Anyways, crazy, crazy things happened. I got a call from my travel coach who knew a community college coach up in Washington state that had some injuries and had some kids that kicked off the team. So they needed somebody to come in halfway through the season. And so they were actually looking for my brother who was on his church mission. And they said he's not available, but his brother's sitting around doing nothing. So I ended up getting to go try out and ended up playing the rest of the year there. So that was a great experience. After that, coach kind of got forced to resign. He had to go a different way. Met a girl. I wanted to get married. Didn't have time for work. This girl and basketball. So decided to move on. Move back to Utah. Was going to go to school for architecture. But when I got back, I needed a job. And my cousins were in the training program that was looking for more trainers. So I was like, okay, that'd be cool to teach basketball as my side job while I get my degree. And anyway, started getting really involved with it, really enjoyed it. I didn't know at the time that you could like actually go full time with training and stuff like that. So again, it was just a side job, but about a year through it, I was really enjoying it. I got along really well with the owner. And it was a big company. There's, I think, 20 something trainers in the company. So it is a big thing. But kind of worked my way up. I was doing the marketing for the whole company, doing a lot of stuff, got the opportunity. So he has licenses so people can buy into the business. And I took the opportunity to do that. So I had this little area that was mine, basically my own business. And so that's kind of how I got into the business side of running it. And that was about four years ago. And then towards the end of that four years, I started really like, again, at the beginning, I was just kind of getting into it, learning everything. Then last two years, I started like do my own research and kind of figure out, you know, I was like, how can I be better? How can I make the program better? I mean, I kind of learned and kind of went a different way than the company was. And we make it work. He was the owner was really like flexible for me and tried to let me do things, but got to the point where we just didn't agree on where we wanted to go. So about just last October, we came to an agreement and I was able to get out of the non-compete and he let me kind of go off on my own to start my own business. So now that's what I have, Ice Basketball. So it's my own business. I run it by myself, nobody else. And that's kind of been five, five-ish months now. And that's kind of where I'm at. So but here I am. Cool. So why did you decide to call it Ice Basketball? I mean, it's nothing too crazy, but it stands for confident and effective. And so that's kind of my goal with my players is to help them help them do that. So one of the main reasons I wanted to split was the previous company was it was just shooting. So we just worked and it was really just all technique stuff. There's no live play, there's no defense, nothing like that, which is great, right? And a lot of players need that. But what I saw was there were a lot of skilled players that didn't know use those skills in the game. And so that we started to really like diverge on our philosophies. Well, I wanted to do more of that. So that's kind of where we were. Awesome. So tell us a little bit about Ice Basketball then. What do you guys specialize in? So I do small group training. So our sessions have up to six players. Like I mentioned that, so we can really train the application of the skills. So I have them come warm up and we go right into some live competitive drills. Obviously still focused on skill building, but live competition. And then we kind of break it down and we go back to the more traditional stuff and then throw them right back into a live situation. So again, my goal is to build a skill but then help them apply it. That's all I do is just the groups. I don't do any one on one stuff. I don't do any. I mean, I do clinics but it's kind of the same idea, six players. I try and cap it out. So that's really where I kind of try and specialize the small groups. So what would you say is one thing that you're seeing in basketball at the moment with the clients you're working with in terms of like what do players need the most help with? So I think it's that same thing. So obviously like in Utah, like AU is like a big thing, right? So like in the summer, kids are going to add some kids that play like 20 games in a week, you know? But the problem with that is that in a game, unless you're the best player on the team, you only have to ball in your hand for about two minutes for each game, right? Then you got all the travel trying to get there and all that stuff. So it's a lot of wasted time, right? But obviously you still need to do it. So, you know, I'm still on a five on five. And then again, with my previous company, it was all one on no stuff, right? Which is great. You have the ball the whole time and you get to build skill that way. But it's the transfer in between that I think is the main issue, right? Which I basketball players are starting to, you know, find the research on and do a little bit more of that. Again, you need all three components, but it's that small group stuff where still focused on specific skills. You have the ball in your hands more. But you can still apply live situations, decision making that will help it transfer to the game. So I think that's the biggest thing missing. It used to be that pick up basketball in the park and with friends, kind of where you would get that small group that two on two, three on three stuff with how big kids are on AAU and how much emphasis parents put on that. You know, we kind of lose that pick up here, especially in Utah. I know it's a little different other places, but Utah is a little crazy that way. Cool. So for coaches that aren't based in the US, can you explain a little bit about what AAU is? Yeah. So let's kind of consider the, I would call it the competitive off season, right? So you have your high school season, November through February ish, but AAU has really become big because that's kind of considered the where college coaches go recruit actually, right? Because they in a gym with hundreds of players that are all high level players all playing against high level players, as opposed to trying to make it to each high school throughout the season. So it really got big for the recruiting aspect of it. And that's kind of, it's really just huge. So like city leagues and complex are considered like minor stuff. If you really want to be a good player, you got to be doing AAU, you got to travel out of state, right? You want to get into the AAU rankings if you want to go division one and play at the big company. So it's a big hill and obviously it's important to play against the best competition, which is what I think AAU can provide. And again, the exposure to all the college coaches, that's why it's super huge, especially in the States. Awesome. And we get asked on a regular basis because a lot of coaches are kind of competing against these AAU clubs because they're struggling to get committed clients because they're so committed to their teams. So has that been something you've come across in your business? I've run into that a little bit, mostly in the summer. It's talking to, again, Utah is weird for some reason, but talking to other trainers, they're like, okay, it's the summer. This is when we get to work in, right? Players have more time. And I'm like, summer's where I struggle the most because they're out of town every week for a tournament. But other than that, like the parents here are like super invested in helping their kids be the best they can be, whether that's the kids or for themselves. But you know, so most of the kids I have are willing to train the whole year. And they really just take a break in the summer if they're out of town, literally out of the country. But as long as they're in town, pretty much everybody I have is here and working. And is there any piece of advice you would give any basketball trainer that is watching and maybe struggling with getting their clients committed during an AAU season? One of the biggest things that has been a huge help with my new business after I've split was adding the online component of my training and having our training app that gives them the workouts throughout the week that can message me, send me videos like when I'm on a sales call, I say, if you're out of town, right, you can't make this session, but you're at a tournament and they're shot, they feel like they're not shooting very well. You can just upload the video real quick, send it to me, I'll send it right back, right? And you can just go to even when you're across the country, right? I think that's been a huge selling point as far as the program goes on. Helping parents and kids feel comfortable signing up, even though they know they're going to be gone for like maybe even a whole month of the summer because they're coaching even if they're not there in person. Awesome, love that. So let me tell you back to when you first started your business. So what was one of the biggest obstacles you faced at the beginning or maybe you currently are facing it? I mean, the biggest struggle is always just how to find players, right? And get in front of people. That's always been the struggle like before. So a little more background with my previous business, right? The biggest struggle is gym time. I know that's the biggest struggle for most people trying to get into it is consistent gym time. We were struggling with it, but eventually we found a place. So now we have a lease. I got the five-year lease, so I still have about two and a half years left on it. So having that be covered, the biggest struggle has just been finding kids to fill it up, right? And the biggest, I guess the biggest fear is I have this lease payment. So if I all of a sudden all my kids quit, then I'm stuck with this lease payment and I'm not making any money. But other than that, like again, being part of the business group with Ben and you guys has got so much less stressful. It's hard to think of like a big obstacle right now, just because there's so much covered in there. And once you think, even just like following the YouTube videos, you prove my business so much that even when obstacles came up, it was like, okay, I know how to deal with this though, right? Even if the answer is in any YouTube videos or the group easier to deal with now. That's awesome. So what piece of advice would you give any basketball trainer that is looking to maybe get their first client or wants to grow? What's one piece of advice that's maybe helped you to gain new clients? Do free stuff. To really like sell your program, you have to have like results that you can show and when you're just starting out, you don't have any results to show. You have the ideas and they should work, right? You believe they're gonna work, but you can't expect, really expect people to pay a high premium for somebody that's just starting out, right? So really like I did, when I started it was all like free clinics. I was doing one like every single week just to get kids in the gym. And I got maybe one out of the eight players every time signing up, but do that for eight to 10 weeks. That's eight to 10 players that you sign up and then it builds from there. So don't be afraid to do free stuff is kind of staying as far as getting started. Yeah. And one of the main reasons I find with a lot of coaches that we do give that piece of advice too is that they don't want to hand out free stuff because of the investment they have to make. So for example, if you're running a free clinic in a gym, obviously you have to put some money down to rent it out. So is it worth the investment? Yeah. So again, in my situation, I had a gym, I was paying for the whole month already. I had the lease, but then I was also paying, it was about at least 75 to 100 bucks per clinic and paid advertising just to get the clinics out there. So I was putting that money out. If nobody signed up, then that's just money gone. But if you really believe in it and you just think of it as like you're just giving them a taste of the program because it's so much easier to sell them when you actually talk to them about the details. And it says you get this every week. Plus for me, you get the online part, which you didn't get to experience in the clinic. So you could just come to the clinics, but then you won't get the online stuff. And it's just every once in a while, there's no consistency. So yeah, I think it's again, it's hard to put money down and not get money back. But if I'm paying 100 bucks and I get six kids at the clinic, one of them signs up for a year, then my return on that 100 bucks is at least $1,500. So it's definitely worth it. So where do you see this industry going in the next two to five years? I think it's going to grow. I mean, it's getting to the point where you don't like if you're not involved with personal training or private training program, then you're probably not going to make it to a high level, which is unfortunate for the kids that really can't afford it, which is why I think it's important to provide opportunities like that, like free clinics and online training, stuff like that. Online part's going to be a big thing, right? Again, I think that's why I'm able to separate myself a little bit because there's a lot of trainers popping up, right? Not many of them have an online program to go with the in-person stuff. So I think that's going to get bigger. I'm really interested. I've kind of looked into it a little bit. I'm interested to see where virtual reality goes with training, especially like the mental side of it. Like, I think it'd be way cool to put on one of the, you know, headsets and just experience like NBA finals last two minutes through the eyes of one of the players, right? And just like hear the crowd and everything. So I'm interested to see where that goes. I don't know as far as like actually shooting a basketball in virtual reality, but the mental component, I think that sounds really cool. So there's lots of ways it could go. You know, people are smart and creative and it's just going to get more and more innovative and new stuff will come out. That'll be weird for a while and then eventually it'll be accepted. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. So you've been, you've been part of our coaching program for a while now. Talk to us or tell the audience about your experience within main money coaching sports. What's something that you've gained from it? Has it helped your business to grow? Would you recommend it to other trainers? Yeah. So like I said, I've only actually been in the group about three months, but it's about, I think two years ago, I discovered Ben's videos on YouTube and just started following those. And I think it was, I don't know what day of the week it was every Friday or something. He would put out a new one and I would watch it every single time. And you know, it was just, it was so different than what we were doing, right? As far as like the long-term commitments, right? Because we tried to sell people on that, but they were just like, oh, a month in, we want to quit. Like we have stuff going on. So they weren't signed to anything. So I couldn't really stop them. And I'm not a confrontational person. So I didn't like to say, well, you said you'd come for a while, you know. So I hated that. But anyway, so watching all this stuff, the YouTube videos were great. I had talked to Ben once or twice and really just did not have the money to join as much as I wanted to. But took a, I think it was last year, about a year ago, took a four-week course about emails and promotions. And that was awesome. And so, you know, everything I've gotten, had gotten was great. I just didn't fund. And then towards the end of last year, it had been a couple months as I started my new one, I was like, you know, all this stuff is like really, really working. I want to go like full into it. You know, Ben said, I want an offer and I took it. Being a part of the full group the past three months has been like even better, right? And one of the coolest things, again, when I got back from playing college, I didn't know that this could be a full-time thing, right? Even if it could, I was thinking, you know, 50, $60,000 a year max, right? That's the most I'm ever going to get to. So I got to go get a job. You know, being part of the just, you know, we have that on my community, you can post your wins and everything. And that's one of the coolest parts is just seeing all these people that are like, oh, I just hit 20,000 this month. And I'm like, what the heck? I'm not even close, but that's cool that, you know, it's free so level. So just that part has kind of opened my mind and said, no, I can get to that point, right? And by using all this stuff, but being able to be in there and, you know, throw up an email and say, hey, what do you guys think about this? Does this work and get me back? And I'm not just from you and Ben and Nick, but everybody in the group, right? And then just the content in there, again, is so much different than what most trainers are doing, right? And you just have that's a possibility until like you get in there and hear it. That makes way more sense than the way I'm trying to do it. So they're just in there and, you know, again, being part of the group and just seeing everybody win, you know, there was a Breonna posted that Steph Curry followed her the other day. And I like, you know, stuff like that is super, super cool. Apart from just like the actual content, which again is so much better than kind of the normal trainer policies that people follow. Cool. So how many clients are you currently working with right now? I just hit 40 yesterday. Congrats. Yeah. So and that's, yeah, in October, I had to start from scratch. I had zero about five and a half months have gotten up to 40. So very good. Very good. So and that that's all in groups, correct? Yeah. Awesome. So that's a massive growth within within quite a short, short period of time. So what does it take to get to that that growth in such a short period of time? What would you need as a as a business owner? The word I think of is desperation. So like I mentioned, I have this gym payment and the company I was with before still wanted to use it. So they use it half the days and I use it the other days. So I had half the gym payment, but I was still over, you know, 2,500 a month that if I didn't come up with that in the end of, you know, in the next month or two, then I'd have to pay that out of my own pocket, which is out of my wife's pocket. So you know, but it was really like, I got to get at least 20 kids in the next month. Otherwise, it was in money. I had a little bit up. So we were good for a month or two. But you do different things when, you know, there's there's a deadline. So you know, said, said deadlines, make sure you're working towards them. And like I said, it was like free clinics as much as possible, you know, and there were a lot of people that were like, you're brand new. We don't trust you. So we're out. But there's a lot of kids that were like, well, we'll give you a chance three months, you know, see how it goes. And then by the end of three months, they sign up for another year. So you know, let's take what you get and just keep working until things start flowing. The first part is the hardest. Like the first 20 kids is hardest, right? After kind of have some people to show results with you get referrals. But yeah, just the desperation of the having that payment was kind of and a new baby coming in a month. So, you know, a lot going on. But that's what drove me to do things I didn't like. I don't like doing sales. I hate sales. Right. But because I had that deadline and that necessity to make some money and get some kids, you know, I just did it. So. Yeah. So talk to us a bit about your sales and marketing process. How are you gaining new clients? Where they coming from? So when I started, my plan with the split was I had some money saved up to one, cover the gym payment, but to do some paid advertising, which I had experienced doing. So I didn't have to hire anybody to do that. And then, like I mentioned, it was free clinics for the first two months. I did one paid camp, which I had one kid sign up from. But that was good. But everything was free. It was all Facebook ads pretty much to that point. And then from there, so like starting January, February, I had some more kids coming in. My Instagram started getting bigger. And that's not huge. I think I only have like five on your followers. So that's not big for some people, but you know, growing. So as I was watching, going and watching games of the kids that I train, I would kind of watch the other teams and like, who's a good player on the other team that has some potential, you know, and then I would go follow them on Instagram. You know, I can't can't can't really message people anymore until they follow you. So I kind of had to wait for them to follow. But then once they did, and they were viewing my stories, I can just send them a message, say, Hey, I watched you play the other day. I thought you're great. I would love to help you get even better. I'm in for a free session. And I think I've gotten, I think five or six kids from that. And then it's just, again, it's hard to get started. But once that happened, I talked with Ben about it about a month ago. There's no like one right answer for getting kids, right? It's like, you don't need to be getting 10 kids a month from Facebook advertising. You can get two kids from that, two kids from referrals and two kids from clinics and two kids from Instagram, right? And that's been the past couple of months. It's just, you know, it feels like it feels almost random sometimes where kids that coming from, but it's all from the work and, you know, doing those four different things. So that's kind of the, the base market, you think? That's really cool. So when I talk to coaches on a regular basis, a lot of them ask me, how do I get clients through social media? Now, last week, I spoke with actually a basketball trainer. And he has quite a big following on social media. He was up to I think 20K. But when we did a deep dive into his business, you know, he was only working with one or two clients. So what piece of advice would you give to any trainer that is looking to use social media to try and grow and scale their business, to try and get new clients? I mean, it depends on what you're going for. Like if you're going online stuff, right? Then I think the huge following is a big deal. But as far as like being local, you know, I think it's more about finding the right connections, right? And I know Ben talks about that too. But out of the, you know, 500 something followers I have, probably at least half 300 of them are in Utah and close enough to train with me. So, you know, I value those 300 more than 10,000 people in Florida, right? Because they can't come with me. So, you know, and then it's like I said, it's difficult. I'm starting to hit a cap. I've messaged just about everybody I can that is following me. But, you know, I'm planning to go watch games. And that's one of my favorite things to do. So like the AU tournaments, that's the other good thing as far as, you know, kids are always caught up in it. But you go to an AU tournament and there's several hundred kids playing at the same time. Talk to parents, talk to coaches, you know, and it's super easy there. And then, you know, follow them on Instagram. If you can't send them a message, be like, Hey, I saw you play. You know, that's, that's great. So that's that's been the easiest way. Again, I'm starting to hit a cap with messaging people on Instagram. But, but at this point, it's been good. I went, I went to each high school roster and just looked up every person that wasn't graduating and just followed each one. And that 20, 30 minutes, right? But I got at least two people to sign up just from doing that. Okay, good, good. That's good. And it's good because you have an intent behind what you're doing. Like a lot of coaches, what they do is they just upload these really cool videos and kind of just sit back and hope something happens. But you're actually intentional with the way you use it. So it's really good. And obviously, it's working for you because you have got results from it. Yeah. And I actually, I've been putting less effort into my posts intentionally, just because it hasn't been worth it, putting more focus into my stories and messaging. Yeah, that's a big thing as well. All right, Jesse. Well, the last question for you, where did you see your business in the next five years from now? Well, that's, that's a really cool thing is I could go a lot of different ways. So currently, I'm only training two days a week. You know, and I can get up to about 72 kids, which would give me well over 100,000 in revenue per year. So, you know, the choices, do I want to just kind of stay there and stay with the two days and, you know, enjoy having that much time off to be with my family? I could hire and I'm planning right now. The tentative plan is to hire another trainer to do those two days as well, about 144 kids, you know, and I could get up to hopefully over 200k in revenue and all that. So I could go there or I could keep going from there, hire more trainers, get more gym time, and just keep going. But for now, the plan is I think hire one more trainer, stick with the two days, have the rest of the days to be with my family. And, you know, I think I'll enjoy that. You know, I don't have to be a millionaire. I don't want to be like, I don't really want to be an NBA trainer, you know, famous, anything like that. I just want to kind of stick with the kids in my area and no long term and view that. So that's kind of kind of where I'm at. But, you know, growth, growth and success is a little addicting. So I will get to that point. Awesome. So did you think it was possible to train twice a week and have a successful business? Yeah, no. Yeah. And again, that was part of one of the reasons I left my previous one was it was two kids per session. I was paying over 1500 bucks a month for other trainers. I was still working 25, 30 hours a week, spending another 10, 15 hours trying to market and do sales and all that stuff. So much effort for so little profit. You know, kind of saw the vision of doing that. And, you know, I didn't, I don't think I'm losing any results for my kids, right? I think it's just as good if not better. And I get to spend more time with my family and make more money and have a better life. It was a huge difference. So it's having like, again, just being able to know that there's somebody out there that's making $20,000 a month doing training, right? I can get half of that. I mean, it could shake. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Because I mean, what most trainers think out there is that to earn more, you've got to work more. But the truth is, if you have proper structure and systems in place, then you can work less, but earn more as well, which is essentially the system you have in place. So good luck. Keep up the great work. I'm obviously, I follow you in the community. I see everything you do, your posts, your wins. So keep up the great work. And thanks again for coming on, sharing with us your journey. And hopefully I can bring you on in a year's time or in 12 months. And we can, we can have another conversation and see where your business is. And then Yeah, I mean, I've watched a lot of these. So it's cool to be a part of it. So thanks for that. And one more thing, if any, if any trainer wants to connect with you, what is the best way to do that? Best way is probably just Instagram at ice underscore B ball. So pretty logos, pretty recognizable. So should be fine. But that's me sending a message. I've had a couple of people reach out to me from the group. So it shouldn't be fine. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks. Thanks, Jess again. And look forward to catching up with you in the near future. Well, thanks, man. Take care.