 I was ugly. Yeah. Good evening. I'd like to call the Thursday, December 19th, Brolin Slick Board meeting to order. To my far left is Justin Lawrence, Flo Smith. To my right is Jeremy Hansen. I'm Brad Town. With us also are Dana Hadley, our town administrator, and Diane Isabel, our town treasurer. Editions or changes to the agenda, Dana? I have no additions or changes. Any public comment? Hearing none, Treasury report. I did not have the tax sale that was scheduled for last Thursday at the last minute. They were able to come up with the money, so that's worked out very well for us. I've also given the November budget status report, trial, balance, and delinquent tax notes to select board. Anything else I have is on the agenda. Approval licenses, permits, vouchers, and applications. Move to approve general fund accounts, payable warrant number 20G11, that checks 19823-19860, any amount of $35,539.33. Also general fund accounts, payable warrant number NSB20-20ACH, any amount of $5,970.53 for the payment for the 2015 truck. Also payroll warrant number 20-12 for payroll from November 24th, 2019 through December 7th, 2019, and the amount of $53,076.35. Also November reconciled bank statements for the general fund, sewer commission, and water division, also the November general journal entries and tax admin adjustments. Any second motion? Any further discussion on this? Hearing none, those in favor? Aye. Those opposed? Motion carries. Closer homes, Vermont appraisal company. Well, this is an annual event, and it's the first time I've been here for it. If we have any, after we lodge the grand list and send out the tax bills in July, if there's any errors in that grand list due to changes that we're supposed to do, we didn't do, or anything, not value changes, not coming into appeal, but errors, mistakes. We are allowed to change them up till the end of the year, but we have to get this approval of the select board. So this year we have four changes, and I'll go over them briefly, and then I'll answer any questions you might have. Three of them were personal property accounts where the business had gone, is no longer here. And Diane takes care of that. It didn't tell me. Yeah. They didn't tell you till they probably got the bill, and then they realized that they should have said something. So those three were pretty standard. There was one that was a mobile home that had been moved out of town, and we didn't know it. We didn't find out it was moved out of town until after we'd lodged the grand list and sent out the tax bill. So the three personal property accounts, one was 7,000, one was 1,600, and one was 2,500. And those went down to zero because they're no longer in town. The mobile home was valued at $4,400, and that's gone, so that went down to zero. So that was the assessment, and that was nothing. The fourth one was a couple that came to us, they actually came to us before April 1st, and in the shuffle of getting the grand list done, we overlooked their issue. And they did get to us before April 1st, and we should have dealt with it, but we didn't. And we were able to resolve it, but because it was after the tax bills went out, then we have to deal with us. It is an error, because it was our mistake. It should have been number four. And it was a piece of land that was purchased in 2016, and we assessed it like we normally do. It's 40 acres on Chase Road. Normally, we would assess it as a building lot, two-acre site, and the rest would be additional land. Well, in the deed, I have a copy of the deed, if you want to see it. Apparently, the seller retained the development rights on the piece, which means that the new owner can't build on it until he can negotiate to get those development rights. We didn't know this until he brought the deed in. And so he paid $15,000 for the property, for the 40 acres. So when we realized that we read over the deed, it's definitely clear that the seller did not convey the development rights. He just conveyed the 40 acres in a couple of old camps. So what we did was we reclassified the land and took off the building site, because he cannot build on it. So it's all the 40 acres was originally assessed at 98.3, and now we've brought the assessment down to 41.4, which reflects just 40 acres, which does not have a building site on it. Going forward, I guess he's trying to negotiate with the heirs to get the development rights back. And if he does that, we will know, because he will have to file another deed, and it will come through our office. So should this change, we can put the building site back on. Because he came to us before April 1, we thought we had to do it. Can we assess for development rights? We can. When somebody puts a conservation easement on a piece of property and they sell the development rights to the land trust or something, typically an appraisal is done in it, and it will establish a value for those development rights. In this case, the simplistic assessment approach was just to take off the building site, because this reflects the fact that he's just got 40 acres of land that he really can't put a house on. How developable is the land? It's not a great piece of land, apparently. I didn't go look at it, Tom went to look at it. But when we reduced it to the 41-4, we let him know that, and we had to give him time to appeal it, and he didn't. So even though he paid 15 for it, apparently the 41-4 was acceptable to him, and he felt it was fair that we took off the building site. I think it's close to where the road turns to a class four at the top. As I said, I didn't go to look at it. Tom was the one that went out and met him. It still doesn't seem logical to me that you could. Why would you want a violent? I don't know why. How could it seem like a great land to reduce your property tax bill? I'll just, you know, I don't understand. I think it's an unusual thing that someone would need. I've never seen anything like it. The value of the land isn't worth less. So the person who retains the building rights isn't not getting the system? That's what that's about. Right, exactly. Because he technically, I guess theoretically we should, but I'm not sure how to do that because the development rights are intangible. You reduced it by 56,900. That would, if the value prior was 98,300, I would think the simple approach would be that if all of a sudden. So Justin, you could sell me your property. Go ahead and build to the development or whatever. I'm only going to be paying half, and you just discover it. That would be a great question for Ted. Yeah. But you're just saying you're correcting this because the land came in before. Right now we have to correct it for the fellow that bought it because he didn't get the development rights. I'm not sure how we would set up a parcel to assess the fellow that's still, or the heirs that still own it. Because I guess I'm not sure. Because they still own the building site. They own the development rights. I mean, I'm not sure if they did. If we assessed them, sent them a tax bill, how would we back up the bill? I guess taking it a step further. Well, they stayed probably. So it's a very unique situation. In my 25 years of doing this, I've never seen it. So. Well, just from what they've done is they've managed to reduce the value of the land with no cost to them, or it's just going to cost us. It will cost us. The town, right? So why would we reduce? I just, I don't know. Well, we can't really assess the owner of the land now, the fellow that bought it, because he can't build on it. So we're just approaching it from our assessment on the land. You're removing the building lot. Yeah, the building site. And we're just assessing the land as 40 acres that is un-buildable. A residual land, a residual, you're removing the value of that. I get that. So that's the only thing we could deal with on this parcel. As I said, I'm not sure of the mechanics of how you would capture the development rights. I'd have to ask. Well, even before that, what gave you the idea that say, OK, well, then I guess since you don't own the development rights, that lands worth less. And how did you, I mean, you took that figure off. But I mean, how did it, was there a standard that you followed? Or is there another, I mean, obviously it's new. You said there's not somebody else that's done this before or had a reference for you. So how did you come up with the idea of doing it that way? Well, it would be, it's the same way we handle other parcels that have no, that cannot be built on. I mean, if you had a piece of property that you could prove to us that you could not build on through an engineering study, sometimes we will do it if you have a house in Montpelier and then you have a little piece of land. Your residual land is in Berlin. We would not, the state law says we can't put a building site on that residual land because the house is in Montpelier. So we would do that for that piece. Any piece that is, can't really be built on and we would have proof that it can't be built on. We would assess it as we call other land or land other than the two-acre building site. And that's pretty much the standard, this way we do it all the time. And this, so this was really the only way we could do it. And it's handling it the same way we would handle other properties in town. So you have another property, for example, and you would have a two-acre building site. You have an assessment for that. And then they have 10 other acres and you have that residual assessment. So you're just using the residual. Yeah, we're just saying that this is land that is not a building site. It is unusual. I've never seen it before. If he does resolve this, he will have to do an execute another deed. And we will know about it. So my thought was, well, it's not like he can all of a sudden decide, okay, they're gonna give me the building rights back and I can just put a house on it. It's gonna have to go through the town clerk and a deed. And then if that happens, then we can put the building site back on. But it's the only mechanism we had in the assessment of this to do this. That's if we file that, if we put the need on file right away for that change, right? Theoretically, could the attorney do us and not put the need on file. There's the rights to this on file. They could. Years and years and years. They could, but then if they want to build, they'd have to go get a building permit. So then they'd have to put on file at that point. Yeah, so then once they got to the building permit, then we would definitely know about it. But my thought is if this fella does manage to negotiate these development rights back, he's gonna record it, probably pretty quick because they'll probably be afraid they'll change your mind again. That's what you want from Rob. I mean, I understand the land trust that they're registered, whereas this is an individual. This is a very odd thing. I think that is a good question to figure out. I do think it's a good question. I'll have you ask Ted first. Just see what he suggests, because I've dealt with properties that have retained mineral rights before. And it's a similar type thing, but it's getting the right assessment. How do you build for something that is an intangible? Right, and be able to bill and collect taxes on an intangible thing that can you put a lead on and that they don't... That Diane can't do a tax sale on. Yeah, that you can't do a tax sale. So that's where it gets sort of sticky on that development right at it. Well, perhaps Rob would like to make case law. I'll put that on my list. But how much money are you for errors and omissions? Is the total with your... Well, it's... Is it money or is it assessment? It's a... We're talking assessment. We're not talking money. Thank you. So it was 1600 plus 2500 plus 7000 plus 569. That's the big one. And that's assessment dollars, not tax dollars. So you would divide it by 100. Yep, okay. So we're saying 68,000? Divide it by 100. So you're asking the board to approve the money though? Just the change in the assessment are in no form from the state says that the select board needs to approve the fact that we're making these changes after the grand list was lost. Did you add that up, Diane? 65,400? 65,400 and divide that by 100 and multiply by 5,508, is it? Or actually, no, what's the total rate? Times 5,500. With the school. Oh, with the school? 2,500. Yeah, 2,200. Non-residential, yeah. 2.0945. All of me like $1,369. Okay, that's what I thought, something I really am. Well, it's certainly better than the electrical transmission lines we had a couple years ago. And I will, I mean, we'll check into the development rights on our end with Ted, the head of the company, to see if he's run into it before, because he's been doing this a lot longer than the rest of us. What was that total again, Diane? Oh, I didn't know. 1,369. 1,369, yeah. Oh, 19, yeah. So we're looking for a motion? To accept the changes that we have to make, yes, before the end of the year. Okay, and then we will. And then we need to ensure the select board, and then it goes to Rosemary to file with the town clerk. Okay. When they file with her. Your motion? I move to accept the changes, that's presented. My second motion. Any other discussion on this? There are none, those in favor? Aye. Those opposed, motion carries. There are three places for select board members to sign, so I'll let you decide how you fit five people in there. I think we need to authorize the select board chair that decided on our behalf. Your second? Second that motion. Are all those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. We have one room to fill in your name. They can write big now. That's a stretch out. So be sure you mention to Rosemary that they authorize Brad to sign on behalf of the town because she will ask you about that. Oh, she will. Yeah. And she only sees one signature. Yeah. She's kind of, yeah. So. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I'll leave this for Rosemary. Yeah. And you just write her a note. Oh yeah, any other questions for me here? Thank you. Any, what's going on in the assessing department? Anything that you can think of that's exciting and new and you know. No, no. We're just starting, we're working on the grand list for next year. Basically. The transfers and the subdivisions. And basically that's what we're trying to get ahead of it. You get an early start on it. Do you think that the update of the mobile homes worked out as well as we hoped? I think it did. We had a couple complaints, but I'm a couple grievance that a couple people just came in and wanted an explanation. I mean, at least now we know what's there for each house. I mean, there were some that, there were new homes there we didn't know about. Things got replaced. Things were updated. And somehow some of them had not been taken care of and they were in great disrepair. So it brought, I think, more equity to the overall situation with the mobile homes. So I think that was the big thing is we were able to pick up that type of thing. Clarice has done a lot of work. The tax maps are up to date, which is nice. We've been doing that every year. And we appreciate having you here. We are, I am working with Corinne on the exempt properties. We want to review them all to, apparently she said the state's using different parcel IDs for theirs and we got different parcel IDs. And the tax department doesn't really pay a lot of attention to these because they aren't taxable. So we're going to be going ahead and just reviewing everything just to try and make sure the list is accurate. It would be nice. I don't want something that can be taxable. I don't think there's anything there. I looked over briefly. I'm just giving you my choice. Okay. Other than that, there's nothing really, that's about it as we go on forward. Okay? Yep, thank you. Thanks, Larissa. Draft audit, you see? Yep. I think you all have a packet as well. I just thought I'd go through a few things that were in the audit. We're going to have, hopefully we'll get the next meeting that we will have Linda Mullen coming from the, from Father Gellin's, the galley. And then she will talk in a little bit greater depth, but I just wanted to point out a few things to you. So I'll just tell you some of the page numbers and you shouldn't take that long. So on page three, okay, and that would be the one with the table of contents on it. Okay, if you look under fund statements, first thing that says is that the general fund reported an increase in fund balance of 139,991 dollars. And of course we had a lot of expenditures last year. And if you go to the next section, it will explain what those were. On page eight, top paragraph, it says, other revenues exceeded budget due to insurance proceeds received as well as grants that we had not counted on. Obviously, when we do the budget, we don't know if we're going to be getting a grant. So we did get quite a few grants. The grants that we got last year were the bypass grant, planning grant, clean water grant, mirror lake culvert grant, grant, and Fisher Road grant, which totaled 296,893 dollars. And obviously we had more than that in expenses, but we did not, some of the expenses that we had put into the budget, we just did not put the revenue, not knowing what we would get. And also we had insurance claims, which we received 52,150 dollars. The other thing that we did is we moved a couple of the fund balances that were Bridge and Road that were very old, and we moved them into the general fund. We've already used one of them up. We're trying to use up some of these old reserves, and now we are keeping them in the general fund reserves. But that was also a boon to the fund balance for like 69,000 dollars. And then later on that page, it does show the major additions for governmental activities where salt shed, paving and culvert projects, stormwater planning in the Fisher Road, lights, new highway equipment, and police vehicle. So we did actually add a few assets. The other part is starting on page 16, and what this is is exhibit G, which is the closest to what we have for a budget status report. Now there's many reports in here. I know when Linda Mullen comes in next time, she will just briefly tell you a lot of the different ones because they each kind of say the same thing, but maybe they're pointing out something different. But like I say exhibit G is the closest to our budget status report. So I thought that I would just show a few things on that. So on page 16, once again, as far as these grants in the middle column towards the top, that's where those grants appear and the amounts in each individual amount, plus what we've received from the insurance company. See the next page, page 17. If you look at the listers and assessors, okay, the budget was 20,340, the actual is 33,581, 13,130 thousand dollars of that was when they did the mobile home reevaluation. Okay, so that's why that was higher. And we didn't know that obviously at the time of budget. Also in meetings and elections, we budgeted 6,500, it was 8,060 dollars, and that was the additional school votes as when we merged. However, FY20, we did get back 2156 dollars. So that's the good news on that one. Now we're just even out. And then on page 18, under planning, other we had planned for $1,000 on the budget and we spent 5,430 and 4,410 of that was grant that we received the grant money on that one. Then on page 19, for the police, the wages were higher than we had anticipated to spend more for wages, which means that the benefits also social security, the pension benefits were higher. On page 20 of the police report, the equipment maintenance, we had budgeted 13,000, we spent 19,447, that was for some vehicle repairs and we had a car accident that was 2872, of which we did receive some insurance money on that. The other part on that page also is winter roads, which we had a very rough winter last year. So we did spend more on the wages as well as sand and salt. And I think those were really the biggest changes that we had in the audit. Then if you were to go, there's only one other section in the audit, and this is probably gonna be the very last section that we're given. It starts with town of Berlin as Father Grissel Valley, it's a representation letter. Okay, it's gonna be a great end. And then there is like four or five pages down into it. There is like a spreadsheet. Okay, that's what the spreadsheet is, finding the spreadsheet there. But all this is saying is that they did not find any material discrepancies in the audit, which is always a good thing for us. Then they do explain, they had seven changes that they made, there was seven entries, that's all that we had, and we're just explaining the entries after that. So I think the good news here is there's no material deficiencies, and that's what we're always looking for. Like I say, next time, I'm sure Linda will go into this in more detail, but if you do have any questions on it, let me know because I know it's a lot to go through because it's a quite large report. Diane, so what, after Linda comes, the board would be asking the board to accept it. Correct. And after that, you and I have to sign that letter. Yes. That one I just showed them. Right. That's the very last one you represented, the letter. The letter that says that everything's our fault, it's not their fault. If they made a mistake, they're not. It's our fault. Yeah. Was they grant money for a special investigation unit that's not reflected in the police? He said, like, I mean, I think we were understaffed mostly with the police force from when they heard. That's money, is it 2,300? 2,000. Oh. So we're not the one I was thinking of. What page is it, please? Oh, I'm sorry, police. Police and drinks. Police and drinks, yeah. It shows them in favor, okay. Oh, okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, that's it. That was due to Hyrule, yeah. Yeah, no, that's one that offsets the revenues that we talked about earlier tonight. Yeah, yeah. We had the, and then we had the new furnaces in the garage. Yeah. And the new fuse box in the garage. Yes, because of the fire. Yeah. Just be thankful that Reynolds was there. Oh, that's a good thing. And that was there, like, we really liked the door. Yes. We were very lucky on that one. As he went out to his truck and came back and the wall was on fire. Crazy. Yeah, so like I said, if you have any questions, just email them to me and I'll be happy to look up anything for you. Thank you. Excellent. And you can go on the very top. How's that? Good, how are you? Okay, do what you really like. Great job. Thank you. Okay, down street, discussion on housing project at the mall. She's gonna escape, yeah. Go, go. I wish I could go, but I can't. So this is Allison. Eileen. Oh, Eileen, I get you and Allison mixed up. Eileen. I'm the, Eileen Peltier, the executive director at Down Street. I met with most of you during when you were here. And this is Matt. Matt Moore. Moore. With Housing Vermont, we're partners. Separate organizations, but partners. You remember you spoke with Eileen before regarding the project. Yes. That they're working on over at the Berlin mall. Right. So we, so the last time I came it was really just to kind of introduce you to Down Street and of course we got into a few questions about the project. So now we're back to kind of talk about where we're at with the project and talk about what we need from you all to make the project, to help the project go forward. But so just to explain a little bit who Housing Vermont is. So in the state of Vermont, we often as local community development organizations, we often partner with Housing Vermont, which is a statewide affordable housing developer. They're also a syndicator of the tax credits, which is the main form of capital that comes into these projects. So because we're a small rural state, it's hard for us to have the capacity to do these kinds of projects on our own. We do some of them on our own, but the bigger projects like this one, which as you know is a pretty big project, including the childcare and everything, we often partner with Housing Vermont and we've been working with them for the past 30 years. They've worked with us on both French block and Taylor sheet in Montpelier. So I think as I said, our goal tonight is really to just kind of, this is where we're at, this is where we see the path forward and this is where we see the need to intersect with you all and get support from you all. So I'm gonna ask Matt to start with just kind of what we've been up to and kind of where the project is at this point and then we'll talk about where we think it's going. Sure, thanks. And to riff a little bit on what I mean said, the counter to her organization being local and them needing our help, it's hard for us to go into communities and do projects alone so you're familiar with Down Street, you know them and it's always great to partner and have that local connection. So the project, we've been making progress. We have the property under contract. It's an option for six months. We're going through due diligence right now so we've done title work, environmental work. We've hired an architect. We have some concept design so we know what's feasible to build there for the building. I'm not sure how much detail you got into last time but we're looking at it's possible physically and financially it looks like to do something with about 30 units there and then have the daycare on the first floor is the general concept. Do you think that was two or three levels? Three levels. So total of four. Three, yeah, three or four. Could be four, depending upon the design it might be three. And the size of the, you know, how many bedrooms we end up with. Absolutely. So you haven't decided as far as how many one bedrooms or how many two bedrooms or that's still. Well, we have a conceptual design and a conceptual development pro forma that does have a number of one bedrooms, how many two bedrooms and three bedrooms and I believe we're starting with and this is a starting point of 14 one, 14 twos and three bedroom units. We know that that would physically fit in that space. We know about what that would cost. We have a primary cost estimate. So. I mean, so, you know, there's a market study that's done. There's a lot of factors that play in it, even just our experience in leasing up the Taylor Street project in Montpelier recently, you know, understanding on the ground how many people just did in one bedroom, some two bedrooms and of course. I think that's what I was interested in is kind of are you targeting a certain segment or is it just to give an overall availability for different types of families? So this particular building, I mean, all of our buildings are pretty general, they're general occupancy, right? So there are sometimes buildings that are senior projects. We typically don't do that just because in a more rural market it just, we won't, that's not to say that we don't end up with a fair amount of seniors in a lot of our projects in the Taylor Street projects, an example of that, I think they're the fair and the worst seniors there. So, but we are looking at this because the childcare is there and of course there will be senior housing across the way as a great site to do family. So as an example, Taylor Street has no three bedrooms. We're planning on putting in a couple of three bedrooms at this point in this building. It's a complicated mix of thinking about the person's income, the restrictions on the units. There aren't a lot of people who can actually afford a three bedroom who are at the right income level. So that's why we pay somebody a lot of money to do a market study and really understand what the market will support. So our guess is probably pretty close, as Matt said, it probably won't move much from that, 14-1, 14-2, and a couple of three, but we're not gonna put that in writing as a firm definite yet. So. Are you building it on the 40% median income target or the 60% when you're throwing your tax credits? It'll be a mix on the 60%. However, the income targeting, there will be a range. There will be a number of market units. So 80% income, up to 120% income, solid chunk at 60, and then there will be some below that, 50% income, and so forth. And some of that is dictated by the mix of funding. You mean it's first of the market. I thought that Senator Taylor was on some projects that I was looking at inside. Sounds like you're familiar. Not as much of you, but I was just curious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get each other. So I was curious how you were. Yeah, good question. Yeah, definitely. So we're kind of working our way. We're kind of at the end of due diligence, in the sense, like I said before, we know we can do this. There don't appear to be any threshold issues that say, no, this isn't gonna work, we're gonna walk away. There's still things we're gonna have to work through, obviously, permitting and design and so on and so forth. So we're moving ahead. The next phase really is kind of the permitting in funding or financing phase. So we will be submitting an application to VHFA for these tax credits. You'll hear that word a lot over the next year and a half or whatever. How long it takes to do this here? That application is due January 31st. Board meeting is in April. It's a once a year application, highly competitive. We had to fight to get in the door because they're, in issue, is the new town center and the timing of it and they'd like to see that maybe our building isn't so much out ahead of that. So we've been having to work through that with some of these funding enemies. So needless to say, we're gonna be able to get in the game, submit this application. We'd like to move into local permitting, I think, in the spring and continue in the summer through next would be Act 250 and the funding piece, it really depends on what happens in April with VHFA. That's gonna dictate. Everything else, the timing. So I think they're basically two scenarios. So as Matt was saying, it's either April of 2020 or April of 2021 that we get the tax credit. So if it's April of 2020, we would be able to, what we call go to our closing where all the funding comes in, for you know, we purchase the site and start construction right after that. We would probably be able to do that in January of 2021. If we get bumped out a year to April of 2021 for this, the VHFA tax credit capital is typically 60 to 70% of the total capital for the building. So it's obviously the most important piece. That wouldn't put us back a whole year because of the timing of the other funding. So it would probably put us back six months. So it'd probably be like summer, June, July of 2021. So that's our sort of timeframe is we would be in the ground in 2021 if it's January or if it's July. It's kind of what our thinking is. So you're saying that is more than one funding source. There's many. But this is a big one. This is the 60% one. Am I hearing that right? 60 to 70% of the total capital. I don't know if you know it, but it's around there. That's the average. Okay, you don't have to, yeah. And this is the one that I was talking about the last time I was explaining. This is the source that comes in an IRS program. And in the state of Vermont, again, this is the other role that Housing Vermont plays in the state. They, because we're doing such small projects, so 30 units is big for us, right? My colleagues in bigger states wouldn't even think of a project that tiny, right? And so national investors who wanna buy these tax credits don't usually come to Vermont because they're too small. So one of the things Housing Vermont does is they set up an equity fund. So they bring in a bunch of investors together to get enough capital to be used for this program across the state. And they've been doing that for the past 30 years and it's a great benefit to us because we can't attract these national investors for these deals. We really need to be doing like 70, 80, 100 units to do it. So that, you know, and there is an amount of tax credit that each state gets. We get the minimum being a tiny small state minimum. We get the small state minimum, thank you, Senator Leahy. So, and that is highly competitive. And so part of what I would think I explained the last time is that part of what is really helpful is to have the support from the town that you actually want the project to happen and that you are in some ways showing them the funders that you want it, right? And so then that moves into like the Newtown Center designation and the types of things that will be asking for your support on. And that all affects the story we're telling, right? As Matt said, you know, they can't come into communities and just develop. We don't do that either. That's not our model. And so we're, you know, you're part of the team too. You know, part of the development team. So you're looking for some sort of mechanism to prove that the town is on the same side. Right. An agreement or some sort of letter or something. Well, and some money at some point too probably, whether you get it through grants or whatever, but you know, the Newtown Center designation is the most important thing. So, you know, when we started this project, we were unclear how they were going to interpret this, that you don't have the Newtown Center designation yet. And at this point, they seem to be drawing a relatively hard line around that. So they will be looking to see the town progressing on it. We've explained the timeline, you know, Dan, we've talked through all that. We know what your timeline is. We've had all those conversations. We've explained it to the funders. But that needs to move forward, you know. So that's one thing. Things like the improvements to the street, like the sidewalk and whatever we're gonna, things that are actually in your Newtown Center designation, your Newtown Center planning, right? It will already include that. So one of the things that I think there's an interest in, in infrastructure. So I don't think any of those are surprises, but it's showing some, when you get a Newtown Center designation, it's a picture, right? There's a, yeah. Dan is like, we can step in. I only have one surprise so far. We can step in. At a dollar sign in front of it. Well, that's, so it's, but showing that you have a path that you're actually gonna do the work, right? So if you think about, I mean, to be blunt, their concern is that we put this project here. We invest, you know, federal and state dollars into a project. And, you know, it's like a bridge to nowhere, right? It doesn't like connect, there's no sidewalk. I mean, it makes perfect sense. And this is the opportunity for them to push you to do those things, right? When you say money, you're talking about investment. So you commit to put the sidewalk in. It's pretty straightforward, right? So it's, I don't think it's an investment that you weren't thinking about making. It's just, you know. I'm not gonna be sure of that. Yeah, but it may be the timing and the, you know, some level of commitment. And we're not exactly clear what they mean by the town committing to do that work. And I mean, to be clear, I don't wanna blame this all on the funders. We would be asking you for those things, too. We don't wanna develop a project that we're responsible. I mean, it makes sense to do it. And then the other pieces, and we had talked to Tom about this, was the connection between the housing and the school, which unfortunately has some, you know. Revene in the middle, yeah. Yes, and he had talked about the conservation committee, maybe looking at that. And we have been in touch with Vermont Housing and Conservation Board, who is one of our funders who does housing and conservation around, you know, are there grants and potential to do that because there's a desire to see that connection. I mean, it makes great sense. And again, it's this sort of using their, they're using this opportunity that they've got right now to sort of push the town to make commitments to do those things, and you know. Tom is working on a grant right now that the governor just released last week, maybe, about a path and bridge. There. Yeah. I mean, it would be obviously fantastic, especially if the focus is to have families and to have the childcare on the ground floor. I mean, it makes perfect sense. And to connect to the, I mean, the childcare kids could walk over and use the fields and stuff. And obviously, it makes sense. So those are the kinds of things that, am I forgetting anything? Taxes, legislation, maybe. We have a list here, the PCDP. Right, so we had talked about the PCDP, Dana knows that world. So that's the community development block grant that is required to come funnel through a municipality, so you need to be willing to submit that application and manage it. We can help with the management of it, but you have somebody, you have a very knowledgeable town administrator, so that makes it all easier. No, I don't know about that, but yeah. Well, you're not afraid of it. Well, maybe that means you don't know. Yeah, you've done it before. It's just so. You talked about, you know, you get my interest when you talk about taxes. You talked about tax stabilization. Are you asking, do you anticipate paying full-boat taxes? Or, I didn't think so. No, so you asked me this the last time. I did, and you know I was gonna come back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, to remind, so. Yeah, I mean, so I'm just wondering what types of arrangements have you done in other projects, as far as the tax status goes? It's not really an arrangement, right? You wanna explain the act? Yeah, you know, I've worked all over the state for many years, and that is probably the number one question that I get, that we get for new development. And it's not entirely straight forward. The assessed value of properties, affordable housing projects like this, where there are restrictions on it that limit the rent that we can take in, and so forth, the assessed value is done by a state formula. So. We have another entity that does that in town. Yeah. So we know. Yeah, there's one other. Yeah, we know. Yeah, right. So, Hill, it's the R.D. property. 40 years or so. Oh, you have a real development property. Yeah. Okay, so we'll be like that. I can't think of the name. Where it has in Drive, I think. Yeah. Yeah, so that's kind of the thing. Right, so the assessed value is, it's gonna be assessed based on the income that the property brings in, whereas a market rate property that has 30 units that can charge 100% market rent for everything, they're gonna be assessed based on the capitalization rate, right? So how much income the property brings in. Our property's got 30 units, maybe six of them are gonna be market rate. Like before, a big chunk of them are gonna be in the middle, and then some are gonna be low. So, our property's gonna be assessed less than that property. So we will pay the same rate, and we will pay taxes. It is privately owned, but it's a different formula than a property that's free to do whatever. It's unrestricted. One of the reasons why I was perked up is I lean into something about tax stabilization, which means something different to me. That is, right, so well, right. So I think at this point, it looks like it could be very helpful to the property. Again, this is very early, looking at a development pro forma that's kind of modeling, okay, what is this thing gonna look like in two or three years when it's up and running, and the expenses, and the income, and et cetera. If we were able to phase in the property taxes over five years, that could be very helpful for us to get on our feet and be able to maintain it and get off to a good start. So as I had talked about, so one of, Matt spends a lot of time driving around the state, but he also spends a lot of time like this with a computer, modeling out the next 30 years, basically, because the way that these projects are done, I think I explained this a little bit, but essentially, we're allowed to increase our rents based on HUD requirement, but typically about 1% and the cost of living goes up 3%. So we're sort of like, it's fatally flawed from the get-go, so you have to upfront project all this stuff, right? So that's why we do such extensive projections for the tax credit period of 15 years, but also up to 30 years. So his initial numbers are, I guess, indicating it would be helpful to have some level of tax dilution. Yeah, it definitely would. But it's something that we don't have to figure out right now. Right, I mean, it's a process, so on. And we don't know if we need it. Well, I mean, if you want to offer it, we'll take it, but we don't know that that's like a, we have to have it. We're not at that point. But we want to, I think the purpose of, well, being here tonight and talking to you and maybe in working towards some type of a letter of intent, a memorandum of agreement about all the stuff is to get it all out on the table so that we don't do all this stuff and then have us come in at the end of the back. Oh, by the way, we also need this and this, and I think we probably will have to go back. You know, we haven't talked for a while, and I knew you were working on things, so I appreciate you coming in. And I think that, you know, so we used a letter of intent in Berry and in Montpelier. And it's, I think, a really helpful sort of conceptual guide for you all as, so then when we do come back in three months and ask for some of you to say, oh, right, we talked to you, at least, introduced to these different ideas and, you know, basically it's what I had said earlier, it's that you're a willing partner in all of this and you understand that you have a role to play, you know, to put this to be successful. So I think we're kind of, well, maybe she's strong. Does anybody have any questions at this point? Is it making sense? Sort of? So what you want from the town right now is just a letter of intent to, so we're going forward with the town center or? So there's a few things. So we actually did draft something, but we thought we would take this conversation in steam. Well, I thought it was better for the board that you would have this first step rather than to present them with a, you know. So the things that are in it, though, are just sort of this idea that we're a partnership working on this together, the new town center, that you're moving forward, you know, it's not that you promise to get it, it's just, you know, you're doing what you need to do for the new town center. There's some language about the street improvements, the pedestrian access to the school infrastructure. Supporting the VCDP application. Supporting the VCDP application, which is pretty straightforward. I think that's mostly it. I may have been missing something, but, so the next step is for us to, I guess, give you that, have you had some time with it, you know. I have the draft, and I'll share that with the board. Right, it was just a lot of words, but basically come down to what I said. Right, but I wanted to hear it from you exactly what it was. And how far into the future would we be looking at whether to phase in the taxes over a five-year period that you spoke of that was intriguing to me. Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, in terms of when we might need to ask for that. Great. Yeah. That will come before, soon before we're ready to close and start construction when our construction lender, and we also have a permanent loan that's gonna go on this, and the investor, when they underwrite the steel to make sure that it all pencils out. So under kind of our two possible scenarios, the earlier scenario of starting earlier in 2021, that would mean that we would be, that would put us in the fall, I would say, of 2020 is when we would be... Trying to wrap that up. Yeah. So just to back up a second, what the other piece that Matt is touching on is that we have all of us as partners making this happen, the developers managing our long-term risk and thinking about it in terms of that, and then we have the funders who have a viewpoint of it, but then it's the investor. So somebody has to want the... So it's not as simple as, oh, I give you some money and I get my tax credit because it's an IRS program and it is ridiculously complicated to be honest and it requires, so we have to meet certain marks each year in order for them to get their tax credit. So they care about the operating budget of this project. Of course. So they're looking at that level of detail. They're not just like, oh, that looks like a nice building and I get my tax credit if I invest in it. So they're all over this too in the same way that the funders are and we are. So there's like three different parties that really have to agree, the developers, the funders, and the investor. So it's complicated. And the investors are mainly banks who have footprints here in Vermont. Most of the Vermont banks have been acquired. Like there's one left, I forget which one it is. Yeah. But although the banks that you all have your bank accounts are, those are the investors in this fund. Nationally, Fannie Mae, Fannie Freddie, they might be an investor we're talking to them and so forth. So, and it's those same banks that will also be the lender for the permanent financing and the construction financing. So, don't we speak of the investment? So they're an important relationship. So it's kind of trying to balance all of those interests. Make sure everybody's happy at some moment. And it does happen, but that's a lot of what Matt's doing is juggling those different needs in time. So what he's saying is his initial view of that projection for the next 30 years is it would be good if there was a little less expense in the budget, right? And then from the viewpoint of a potential investor. But we don't know the details of that yet, so. So better to put that concept out here now than to come after we've all been working really hard at the 11 hour and say to you, you've got to do this or we're not going to have a deal. We're trying to put it out there now. Yes, exactly. So my thought is the net, so I did just really quickly look at this. I think we've touched on all the things that's in the language here. So I don't think anything will be a surprise. So I think the next step would be just for you to share the language and we could come back when you think it's appropriate. So initially, this is a letter of intent and then as time goes by, we're hoping by late spring to have a little bit more of a official commitment. This is just- Well, I think my concern, one of my biggest concerns is that as you know, we're kind of hanging on just waiting to get our application in and I'm going to be very positive and say it's going to be approved, but I don't know that for sure. And so the board couldn't guarantee- No, no, no. Yeah, no. And it won't say guarantee that you get with it. It will be that you get it submitted. We all share that risk together. We understand that. And if it doesn't get approved, we'll just delay things a little bit. Right. You'll get there. Oh, I think it will happen in just- Yeah, yeah. And I think it will happen next fall, but- Yeah. If we say it enough, it will be so. It's my philosophy in life. You kind of have to have that philosophy as a developer. We're doing this. We're doing this project. Yeah, everything forward at once and all the trends will meet at the station. And we'll all be happy at that one moment in time. Yes, right, right, right. And I'll just briefly mention where the childcare conversation is going. It's going very well. We have, it's looking like we're gonna do 90 slots, which is really incredible and hugely valuable to the success of this project with funders to be, because it's addressing two really important needs in our community. It is just the dream location, if you think about it, you can work in Monterey, but I mean, right in front of you, you know there's thousands of people working at the hospital in Blue Cross for Shield, I mean, within half a mile. So, great location. It's in Center Vermont Medical Center has been working with us, Blue Cross for Shield, some other of the smaller employers as well, very interested in this happening. We are working with Let's Grow Kids, which is a statewide entity that's trying to develop childcare and what they're recognizing is that these types of projects are actually more likely to be viable for the long term. First of all, you're building a new building so you get it right and you know the plugs are where they're supposed to be and all the, you know, it's designed well, right? And then the scale matters, right? So having, so at this point, we have Capstone is not in writing, but they verbally have committed that they would like half of the slots. So it would be Head Start Type Programming for 45 kids and the other 45 kids. I mean, CBMC would like probably all of them, but that's not how we will do it. But there's no real concern from anybody that the need's absolutely there. So we are working through a process, we're hiring a consultant to do the business model for that and then there will be an RFP for potential operators of the childcare. And that will be, this process will be overseen by Let's Grow Kids and Capstone and Down Street along with this committee that involves CBMC and Blue Cross Blue Shield and so on. So we've had lots and lots of support and interest and from the business community and making sure that the childcare's successful. So good. Any more questions? Thank you very much for coming here. All right, thank you. Thank you. Good to see you all. Yeah. But it's new when you want to come back and talk about the L.I. or, you know. Sure. Yeah. All right, I will. Thanks. Black Road plowing, Dana? Yes. The Dousa here, Tim is here. We've been talking about Black Road plowing and I think it was, we're plowing the road to Y, am I, is that right? Yes. And so the Dousa would like the road to be plowed narrower. I've talked to the highway department about it and it's an issue with their plowing operation. And I guess I'll let Tim explain what that issue is as far as changing trucks during the plow route. I'm plowing it with the load truck. So there was some confusion about what the little truck means. I think that's the confusion, yeah. It's not the pickup. That's the six-wheeler instead of a ten-wheeler. And for him to back down in the air to sand it, because I don't sand, because when I'm plowing, I got salt on. And a very, very seldom do I sand unless somebody breaks down and we get way behind them and they store my help. Because I'm not plowing now. And for him to back down in the air, it's got to be wide enough for him to back down in there. And what's the right-of-way? That's what I want to know. What's the town's policy with the right-of-way there? My understanding was that it was the gravel surface that was already there. No, that's not the right-of-way. The town's right-of-way. The town's right-of-way is much larger. Right. Okay. That'll keep up bigger. Two rods? Yes, two rods. So that's 33 feet. Yeah. So if I'm plowing at 17 feet, that's way less than 33 feet. So clearly we have the town has the right. It is the right-of-way. However, when we had talked about the little truck, I thought you'd meant the pick-up. We don't put the plow on the pick-up unless it's a major storm, a big storm. And this way, if somebody breaks down, we can, they can get back here, get in the pickup and go and at least open up roads that if you get eight, 10 inches of snow and people can't go home. Or Mark comes over and gets it with big storms and plows this yard here for me and he plows some other stuff around for me so that it just frees me up from work. Work here? Yes. The police officer. He's always used the loader before, but it's kind of hard to do it with a loader over here. So we have the plow now for the pick-up. So he comes over and gets it and plows this out. So that saves me a lot of time because I have to take time in the morning to get this opened up so that the help can get in and people can get in here. So that's what we use the pick-up plow for. So what if we just used the six-wheeler to do the plowing and did not sand it? Well, my theory is that if the town has a right-of-way, we have the right to maintain the right-of-way and we're not maintaining the right-of-way because it's 33 feet. We're only doing 17. And supposedly the thing of it was is we had 16-6, so that's one rod. And if I plowed at 17, I don't know what to say. Because when we decided this thing with the dirt part up there, it was 16-6. So are you asking if they continue to plow it with the six-wheels, which is what they're using right now? And they just don't take the bigger truck down to sand. Well, the only thing what are you gonna do in my store? I don't do sheet of wax. They'll have to manage the sanding. Well, I think, I mean, I was looking at some of the maps and how those, I know, I believe in one of your emails, the fiberglass poles that you had out there, that was an issue, right? Those are the edge of the permit that was given by the select floor to walkers two years ago. Right, so I think that permit to Josh is not in place for the maintenance in the winter if the town's maintaining it. So we don't disagree at all with Tim. It's actually, the town can do whatever they wanna do in the right way. That's the way it works. So in the right way is three rods, not two. So it's 49 something feet. So there's no argument there. When we came to talk about plowing, we talked about coming to an agreement where we would take the little truck down and plow it. Tim was very proud that he could, that all the trucks have angled blades that they were very able to get into tiny spots. And then as soon as the first storms come, we've got this enormous swap down through the road. Two people live down there. There's nobody in the apartment. There's very little traffic up and down there, if any at all, other than two people coming and going occasionally. It does not need to be 72 feet wide. We don't know why we're here. We made an agreement and we're just getting frustrated. Well, you don't think that I am? Well, I know, you're stuck in the middle, I'm stuck in the middle, I'm stuck. I mean, the agreement that they made should have never happened. And I said that at the meeting. We have a right of way, we have the right to maintain our right of way. So we're not maintaining our right of way. It's 33 feet or 49 feet. And we're away from that. So I mean, and when I go down in the air, most of the time, I come off the cross-down and go down in and my blade's angled. But when I get down to your driveway, I normally straighten the blade out and just push straight down through with the blade and the wing is just getting rid of the snow. I mean, if you don't want to sand it, that's fine. I don't care. That's totally up to you guys. But that'll make it dangerous for your plot truck to go down there and a sheet of ice you're gonna drive your small dump truck down there. I'm not going down in the air in an ice storm. So it's gonna depend on what happens after the ice storm. Like this last ice storm we had was some nasty. But the next day it warmed up enough and the roads went back to dirt. So we didn't have a nice buildup on our roads. Like lots of times that don't happen. Usually you get, it warms up enough the rain and then the roads turn to a sheet of ice and then it gets cold. Well, this last time it got up in the 50s and it thought everything else and all the roads went back to dirt. Yeah, so when we talked about this, we said, okay, so nothing's gonna change. The permitted driveway's gonna stay the same. It's gonna be, everything's gonna be the same except that the town's gonna take over the plow and from the waters. And everybody said, yep, yep, yep, that's what we're doing. And it's not anything like. I wasn't here for that. Nothing like what we talked about. You were here for the first meeting and not, not when there was anything said about, well, I said about plowing it with the small truck we would, but there was nothing said about how wide we had to plow it or nothing. That was the meaning that they voted for the town to plow it, which was in October and I was not here and it was Dane. I don't think the motion was for any specific width. There was no width. No, we didn't go into detail on the width. There was looking for the implication that you guys said we could plow that road, we could plow it narrow, we could move the blade all over the place that we want to. It was applied, we agreed, we thought that was a decent agreement that we all decided on. It was, it was seemed like a thing to go and then the first, the first five were like, holy geez, the thing is like a landing strip. It was 17 foot, well, I know it, but it doesn't need to be that first two. Well, it does for the purpose. I'm not blaming you. What I'm saying to you is it has to be that wide, it's the same. So how wide are you allegedly? Hi, I mean, so. In an ideal. The gravel width has worked for the past 20 years. Okay, and how wide is that? That's 10 feet or 12 feet or something like that. Yeah. And you know, and you know, and the driveway, you know, we're not asking it to do anything different. Narrow it up three, four feet, two, three feet. Don't hit a little sticks, you know, because they're at the edge of the thing. It's kind of made as a marker and, you know. It's the edge of your lawn is what it is. No, it's not the edge of the lawn, it's inside. It's where I measured and where you put the little blue flags. The only problem is, is for me to go in there with just a plow and plow it, I'm driving into snow. We might do wheels in the back because the clouds only 11 foot wide. So it's, I don't know what to say. As I said, you got it right away and I think it's time that we maintain it right away. So we got other problems too. We got the same thing down on Point Ridge Road. You guys got stakes all up on his lawn down here and he's all mad because I plowed him over. Well, the snow's gotta go somewhere, so what am I gonna do? Leave the snow three feet out on the black ops because he's got stakes on the edge of his lawn. Tim, what's the width of the blade on the? 11 foot. And so you plow when you go down, well that's the six ton that you've been using? No, the six wheeler. It's a 11 foot blade on the front of it. 11 foot. So right now when you go down through, you plow down, you turn around and you plow up. Well, I can plow down with the plow and then when I come up out of there, I'm gonna plow up. You don't only land on the other side of the road, right or wrong, right or wrong. We don't. Okay, well then I'll wing it coming out on the other side. The only problem is you get the tree down here. That big maple's in the way. So I can't drop my wing until I get by that big maple. So my question was, do you have to plow both directions? I mean, if you- Well, what I'm saying is, is if I go down and nail on my plow, I can just plow right along the edge of your little stakes that you got there. And if we get a lot of snow, then we're gonna run into problems because I'm not gonna have any where to push the snow. You can only push so much in front of you when it's a big storm. It's never been a problem for 20 years we've been there. Never has been a problem. Well, it's a pickup. It's not a dump truck. Pickups not gonna drive in the snow worries because it's plow. They all fall back down in the road. Why do you think we go around with the wing on the greater and wing back snow banks? Because you've got to keep the banks pushed back so that you got your road surface. So the problem here is, is that you're plowing 11 feet, which is the width of the blade. And then you're winging it back to keep it out of the, from falling back into the roadway. There's- Well- It hasn't winged it back yet. Yes, I do. I run my wing down in the air every time. Every time? Yes. So- Is that what's fitting? It's just a matter of- Yeah, that's what's going on with the stakers and wing. Yeah. So it's just a matter of keeping the road clear. The only problem we've got is that only that big maple is. Yeah. They got a stake right across from the maple. You can just barely get through there. Did you share the letter with the board from the fire department? No, no, yeah. That's another subject there. Yeah. Does that pertain to this? No. No. It does pertain to the width. Praying sir, plowing. Well, you know what? We've got to decide this plowing. I can't do this. Okay. No, I don't want to. I can't do this. I can't get a little old. It's getting really old. Let me tell you. We have never brought these meetings. We always show up to justify our position. What's the problem with the snow on the lawn? It's not just snow. What is it? You're tracking over there. The lawn's getting torn up. There's already- I haven't gone past the stake. There's already a line of debris starting to accumulate. It seemed to me- Well, come over to my house next spring and see what the town does to my lawn. It would seem to me that in order for the drive for the 12-foot width to be cleared, you're going to have to wing back the snow either up or down. It doesn't matter which one to me. But we can't be having a truck get down in there and not being able to take and turn around or come back up. Right. So I would say that- Is that maple tree dead? Yeah, because I've been pushed so far close to it from these guys with their stakes and stuff. Oh, get out of here. You're out of your mind. Well, who owns the trees? We built them. You killed the trees? No, actually, you're not holding the tree. Let's keep the corn. Yeah, it's not holding the land. John Hogan's, but it's in the town right away. Correct. If we could get rid of that tree, that would solve a lot of problems. I'm the tree warden. You can get rid of the tree. So what about you can pull the stump still? Well, I don't think I could do it this year, this don't, but- Yeah. Well, if I could get somebody in there and we can get it cut right flat to the ground, that would be a big help. Because if the problem we got is when Timmy backs down in there with his ten-wheeler, the wing is on that side. And he's clobbered that tree twice with the wing. We don't need to smash a truck up. No. Because he's trying to stay not backing over the stakes. I gotcha. Well, if that tree is dead, then it's just a matter of safety anyway to bring it down. Well, I can get Mike Marshfield-Loggin that does all of our tree cutting. Definitely seems like a viable solution. I'm gonna hold him and see if it's something that he wants to tackle this time of year. Yeah. That doesn't look like anything. Well, how does that solve it? Well, because then I can just plow down in there and stay off their stakes. I mean, the snow's gonna go on there long, don't matter what. And then when I come out, I can wing coming out because I can't because the tree's there until I get past the tree. Push to the opposite side of the driveway. Push. Push the snow towards Bruce's. Well, the thing there is if that tree is dead, it should probably come down. If the tree's not there, I can push it back enough on that so I can get it out of there. Well, I would say, see what you can do, Tim. Well, we're talking about this. Who dug the trench across the road? Right. Okay. It's not a trench. Yeah, it is. When I went down in there the first time to plow, my plow caught it and it flipped my plow right over onto the ground because it tripped it. You have no right inches deep. No, it's more than two inches deep because my plow caught it. No, it's two inches deep. Well, you have no right to do it. You don't have any right to dig a trench across the road. There's a bump there. I can feel it when I'm coming in and out of there. So it's gonna be more than two inches deep. Well, I don't know what you can do about the trench now that I'm pushing down. Well, I know that. I can go up there and push some gravel in here and fill it in. No, we're not gonna be doing that. But if you can get down in there and get that, get it so you can turn around and come back and get the snow out of the way. Do what you can. As far as... I'll get ahold of Mike tomorrow. Yeah. As far as other materials can throw up with the snow, everybody that lives, has a road front and suffers that problem. Well, I know they do. So... Anyway, you see what you can do, Tim? Any else on this issue? So what are we doing with the sand? Not sanding it or were you sanding it? Well, if you get down in there and you can turn around, I would say sand it. Well, I can turn around down here because I can plow out onto his lawn. I guess it is frozen now. Well, I skimmed it off the first couple of times and then it froze up. So I can push the snow back. But if you're able to come back up a wing it, you're gonna be able to get the other truck with the sand back down there, right? Yeah, if I get rid of that tree. Yeah, okay. There you go. Let's go. You're done. Yeah, I'm gonna call Mike tomorrow and I'm gonna come in if he... Find out if the neighbors that own the tree want the little wood or you have to chip it or whatever you have to do. Well, he's gonna chip probably all the brush. I know he chipped the lot when he cut much out there on the con for me, but while I'm back, he chipped it. Okay, anything else on this issue? There you go. Let's move on. Thank you, Tom. Thank you all. Change of select board meeting day. Nina? Justin asked me to put that on. Yes, I asked him. He would put that on. We'd touch briefly and at the round table I would like to see if we can change the meetings from Thursdays and then open to a lot of other days. I am open to other days as well. Thursdays. The only day is Wednesday. Wait, yeah, it's my daughter's meeting and that's why I got changed. So if we change it back to Mondays like we had it before. I'm fine with Monday. I'm totally fine with Monday. Monday, like, yeah. I'm great with Monday. Absolutely. So maybe switch it back to Monday. How about work for your day? Okay. What about me? Tom, how about you? So maybe we have our January start meeting at the regular Thursday. Yeah, I was going to suggest that maybe you give it a month before you change. Maybe do it first. Sorry, are you reprising it? Yeah. Maybe you do it the first meeting in February. Good point. Yeah. Give it time to announce it. Yeah, the second and the 16th and then starting with February 3rd. Yeah. February 3rd. Yeah. So they can see if we can get the website changed. We can do that. We put it on a front page for them. We can do that. We're so cooperative. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Those are the easier things to do. Are you going to do a motion on it? I move that we change to the regular meetings to the first and third Mondays of every month starting in February. Second motion. Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Those opposed? Motion carries. Time administrative report data. Well, I don't have much of a report. We did have town staff come today. We had lunch together and it was nice. Roberta Haskin bought the lunch for us. That's wonderful. And so it was very nice. It was very casual. But I think we had a good time. And other than that. That's good time when it's free. Free was always good. Other than that, I don't think I have anything going on that's not on my list that I'm making up. Checking it twice. Checking it twice. It is that season. That's right. Okay. Justin, round table? Nothing. Flo? No. Jeremy? Okay. In the executive session? No. Oh, yes. I'm sorry.