 Ha ha surprise Welcome everyone to our planning meeting this evening We have a few items on the agenda we're not amending it at this point we're gonna leave it as is Before we move into the presentations I would like to ask if anyone has any opportunity one wants to share anything with us This is our public comment section for items that are not on the agenda We don't usually get a lot of takers for that so I don't spend a lot of time on it Moving on the next item right off the bat is Dennis Lutz welcome Presentation on update on capital improvements I'm gonna do this in a can I use this? Do I need it? Can I just stand up? I like to stand up and walk and talk. Grab that mic. I mean do James Brown come on Well, this is a good opportunity to kind of go through the select or to prove the capital plan for the year So that's part of there's a requirement that we come What's in the capital plan so that's kind of part a but that only tells tells a part of what we're doing and there's a lot of Projects that are going on that may not exactly show up in the capital plan that the planning commission needs to be aware of So I've given you three documents, and I'm gonna go through them pretty quickly I'll answer any questions that you have if I can The three documents are in the annual report page 56 and 57 is the capital plan and Garen's been kind of put that up on the board. I want to cover that first the second document I want to talk about is just so you know The paving projects that are going on this year They have an impact on what we're doing. So that's that's a quick one, but just to go through that list It's already gone out to bid and we're working with the paper to get that done And then the last one is one that you probably we've got on our web page But we've got a number of projects that are ongoing a lot of projects that are ongoing That may not make it to the active capital plan But they're projects that are in the mill that are in some stage of development and I think you need to They impact in some cases what the Planning Commission is doing or looking at as far as projects So I want to it's important to get to that one. So let me deal with this one first We used to try to do a narrative in the capital plan book write out everything we're doing Decided this year that we're going to basically go to spreadsheets a new finance department decided that's a better way to do it I Like to write so unfortunately, I'm not writing. I'm using spreadsheets, but I can explain what's going on This is a total project cost. We estimated for that particular project These are dollars that come forward that we may have collected from impact fees from prior years that were unspent Projects that we built that didn't cost as much. So these are dollars that are essentially as of 6 30 18 What we estimate as a June is in the bank And that's not all that's in the bank because there's other projects then again that don't show up in the capital Project list if we get developer impact fees for a particular project It may not make a capital plan, but it's a category of costs that are sunk away in the finance and we have a line item for that item Every year on the annual budget there's two cents on the tax base that goes to capital projects that amounts to about I don't know if you can scroll down to the bottom there and I think it's around 500 Sorry you want 505,000 so the two cents on the capital plan bought us $505,000 in new money But that's new money. We've also we move back at the top We've also got those funds that we've set aside developer impact fees. So that's only a part of what we're spending I'm going to run through them pretty quickly in the garage. We're basically setting aside $5,000 for future improvements to be determined We're putting $3,000 in the library deferred expansion and maintenance We are actually using some of the money this there's actually more money today in there than the 4,000 There's about 25,000 the air conditioning system failed in the library If anybody's been there last summer, it's pretty miserable the basement's fine The first floor isn't working the air conditioners are up in the between the ceiling and the roof They're impossible to get at impossible to get out. So we're putting New duck was air conditioning in contracts been set. They're gonna be doing that over the next month You will see some additional Wiring conduit on the outside of the building. Unfortunately, we can't escape that but the units themselves are inside So you're not going to see large air conditioning units hanging out of the library. That will be done Memorial Hall, we have some money left there We are playing as we've actually get again between now and July 1st We've got plans to take in the back of the green room Preparation for the plays back where they collect tickets. We want to put a very small kitchen in there I mean very small sink in a cabinet So there's someone wants to use Memorial Hall and once they have an event They've got a place to wash dishes other than the sink in a bathroom coffee wherever else. So that's on going Community recreation. There's a community recreation facility study that was set up. It was supposed to spend $30,000 $10,000 was set aside years and years ago With working with Allie the recreation director, we're taking that $10,000. We're taking $20,000 in new money. We're taking another $10,000 of previous money. We're putting that we're doing a $40,000 study To look at what's the remaining problems we have for space a couple issues with regards to recreation Indoor space their renting space. How much do they need for the future a little bit with the fire department? But the biggest issue is what we're looking at and looking forward in terms of whether we consolidate or not The village highway Outdated as best Small outdated wrong location town highway garage is the same. So what we're doing is we're going to look at three alternatives Not where to put it We want to know if the village had to redo their highway garage. What would it look like? How big would it be? If the town had to redo its highway garage, how big would it be? What would it cost? And then we want to put them together and say if we at some point in time consolidate and there's one garage How big is it going to be? What's it going to cost? We're not trying to locate a site or do anything for we just want to find out What are the options for the future and what's that impact on tax base? So we're gonna have a $40,000 study using different monies to come up with that that plan that will start this summer Probably complete about a year from now Anybody has questions while I'm talking just power out That's you're taking the rec the money for the rec facility you putting that towards the highway garage essentially We're putting it towards looking partial at recreation space partial at fire department space. It's more small space That they need ours is the bigger one So, you know out of that 40,000 their portion of the study might run three or four So they're contributing the rest to the greater good of looking at buildings find facility So Or we're in trouble We're continuing to put money into energy of saving projects. We've just completed Redoing all the LED lights at the signal instance installations s6 up on s6 way and over on Susie Wilson Road Bringing them up to standard. We've paid a certain amount of money agreement on power to relamp those with better lamps The first one we had in for the first five or six years weren't as good So we've done that but there is money there and we're putting a little bit of money away So if the energy committee has demands or needs They can look at at some funds to be able to afford some of their projects There is money for the redoing the water tower at the fort right now. It's like words put that project on hold the Historical society is trying to get that done. They're trying to get to collections Anybody that wants to contribute this is a pitch. They need money We really need to redo the roof and you can't really redo the roof without redoing the stairs And it's probably about a hundred to a hundred and twenty thousand dollar project We just don't have enough money and up to this point the select board said great project But given our other needs it's got to wait Slate roof repairs we've been putting away Money each year. We'll have about over fifty thousand dollars this year Memorial hall needs to have the roof redone and the estimates we got were about a hundred thousand dollars So we're trying to put away twenty five thousand a year It'll last another two years beyond this coming year when we get that money in the bank. We'll redo that roof So that's that's kind of how we've approached a lot of these things tree farm improvements over on the west side of town There's a shed over there that was used to start plants that shed has collapsed during the course of the winter It's it's not a historic structure. It was part of the historic compound So the historic site. He wasn't real happy with it that it's basically falling apart But it is and they've agreed that we need to take it down problem is it's full of asbestos so what we're doing first is we've we've Basically tried to support the building so we can get in there with an asbestos crew to clean it up Because it's a lot cheaper if we can pull off the asbestos before that asbestos gets mixed with the whole building coming down So it's the two-stage thing get the asbestos out take the building down clean up the site walk away for the time being That's kind of what we're working on actively for buildings I'll go down through I won't go into a whole lot of detail road reconstruction I'm going to go through that later what we're doing for paving The big one that is that's not shown up here is we got a fairly significant grant from the state to do Say and redo sandhill road We're going to come just a little bit shy the intersection because there's a project to put signals there It'll go with the next two years, but we're going to rebuild that road with new drainage from there all the way back to founders We weren't sure how far we're going to be able to go but with the state money $166,000 added to Got I'll go back to roads later We're putting improvements into gravel roads We're not paving them, but we're improving them and part of that is under the new stormwater requirements we have to improve those gravel roads and Do a whole bunch of stuff as part of our new stormwater permit? So we're going to be doing more work on the gravel roads Regrating stormwater facilities new culverts a whole bunch of stuff and and they've got it designed that wherever Wherever stream crosses That becomes the location that we have to basically deal with in terms of improving and then we're going to work between those Equipment this is a whole list of equipment from senior vans again this is These are transfers in the operating account We'll put in a certain amount of money per year for let's say for public works vehicles We try to keep that constant We put that into the capital fund as we need vehicles We buy it out what that does to the tax base instead of the tax base going up every time You buy an expensive vehicle and dropping for two years it levels that out so for the the general fund tax We try to keep that level and then take our actual expenditure So some years will have a large balance in that account in other years We may go in the hole, but we try to make that balance over time So we have a 20-year plan and basically all the departments are now doing that for replacement of equipment The next group of projects if you can screen out throw up a little bit are Are all alley stuff? There's a park asset replacement plan to go through and fix and replace parks There's the whole series of projects. She's working on there they do collect impact fees from The development community and that's essentially what's in the bank and impact fees as of this point in time So she can use a significant portion of that money to improve the park system and do other things There's money set aside for mill foam on medication in your book It's like we're to ask her about that. We haven't done any mill foam mitigation for a couple years Looking at that now The state's going to come out evaluated if they have to do Some chemical addition to take care of the nofoil The other one is setting aside funds for the future We every year Indian DM has looked at to see what condition These repairs and improvements And basically the last time they did that was 10 years ago And they started they've set up a fund now so they're essentially the same way that fund builds over time So if they have to make repairs Um, let's see. Where are we? Parks paths there's a series of them I'll get to that were there's some of these that are being done There's nothing being done in this first one There's a very short section of missing path from the Cirque Highway off-ramp to McDonald's We're gonna postpone that for a little while. There's no real big demand for that because there's no Movement on a path to the West at this point in time. We do have a grant to do towers road from 128 up that street on the right-hand side That should go to construction. It's in right-of-way right now plans are done We'll probably go to construction next summer it takes that long to get through right away with the state state grant 80% grant I think 20% local share So you can see that's that's the estimated cost of project That's the local share that would come out of town and it's a future cost Pinecrest Drive from Suffolk Lane to Colchester Road. We're putting in a sidewalk there Not a lot of room we've got improved drainage that's a little bit more expensive again That's a state grant. I think that one's 90% so it's not gonna cause the town a lot of money to essentially complete that work There are two studies that are underway Both are gonna have hearings shortly One is a scoping study that the stricken that the Regional Planning Commission is doing Looking at a path from Athens Drive up here to the Cirque Highway It's one of the most heavily traveled pedestrian areas and there's nothing there And so we're looking at what would that look like? How wide would it be? What does it cost? That that's obviously not a construction cost is probably a million dollar plus project That's that's an engineering Project planning right-of-way type of cost the other one we're looking at is in the Route 15 from the East Gate of the fort To West Street in the village so there's a portion in the town East Gate of the fort to Susie Wilson Road And Susie Wilson Road to West Street and the village is looking at their portion out there. They're looking at potentially Let's Converting that to a three-lane road is one of the options with online bike lanes There will be another path that the state is building from Winooski to Susie Wilson Road a 10-foot wide paved path that goes By Fannie Ellen on that side crosses over at the entrance to the National Guard and then comes up on the fort on the other side That'll be a 10-foot wide multi-use path But the issue is when you get to Susie Wilson Road How do you get those bikers to the other side and not take them through the Susie Wilson Road intersection? And one of the things that you could do is possibly take them out at the East Gate of the fort and bring them down Route 15 And then you're on West Street heading and you're on First you heading into the village So those are all things that are ongoing We've got a ton of stormwater projects. I want to cover those later Almost there's only a few of those that are actually Just the better roads grant are usually a one-year grant to do work improve a back road Add gravel add stone line ditches whatever it is But the larger projects are much longer-term projects and I want to cover those and get to the last one We've got a ton of grants to do stormwater a lot of work there Some of them in the village and some of them are in the town So right now based upon the projects that we have ongoing for stormwater Our existing stormwater program from the state ballot and to look at what we can do for foster school We've got about two point seven five million dollars in costs and the local share is about two hundred seventy three thousand so we basically Getting the state to cover ninety percent of the cost of those projects, which is Subtract the numbers. That's the savings to taxpayers. A lot of people work very hard to get those grants both in the village and the town we're doing some work on Equipment replacement for information management IT And then some also some there's funds down here if we can go up a little bit There's funds that don't come out of the general fund but come out of utility funds and We're looking at a at a waterline There's a couple projects that we aren't building we have we do have reserve funds in the water sewer fund but the ones that we're actively looking at is It's called sandhill waterline increase It actually is not being done that way it's being done a different way and I'll get to that but there's a Dalton Drive waterline at the fort Susie Wilson Road is fed through some old water lines in Fort Ethan Allen It's also fed through a six-inch pipe coming up from the shampoo and water district line down by the river Pardon woodside comes up that way that six-inch line is cast iron it was built about 1900 It's probably got about that much water going through it And so the decision was made rather than go down and go underneath 15 go underneath the railroad tracks and make a connection there It's cheaper smarter to go into the fort and run a water 12 inch waterline in the fort within the pig parade ground area So it's buried in the grass and nobody will ever see it bring it out and connect it to Susie Wilson Which will help flow and pressure for the commercial bill. It's all along Susie Wilson That will end the town That we have money to do we set aside money for that it may not go bidding wise this summer We're almost at the point now where we don't want to put certain projects out to bid If you're gonna get that kind of a project out you want to do it in February so you get the best prices So we're probably gonna hold that though next year The other one we're looking at and it isn't even on this list yet is we are talking to Champaign Water District about a potential waterline Loop up along route 15 There's a storage tank up close to Athens Drive that basically serves the village and down We get our water from down along River Road in a tank and it's pumped through two lines one through the village and one through The time town but if that pump station goes out We're out of luck and so is Jericho, so if we were to connect the waterline up along route 15 That's a potential way to bring a second feed into the town system and Provide some ability that if one part of it goes out and also provide higher pressure up in the old stage row Route 15 here, so we're looking at that. It isn't even on here, but that's under discussion So that's kind of what's going on sometimes that are on the list of projects. Sometimes there are projects that are on here We have a couple sewer lines Pancras drive to the village. It's been on the list for a long time. There's no immediate need for that. It's not being built It's just still on the list So it's a little confusing because we have projects on the list We're not building we are projects off the list we're working on But the bottom line is the projects in this category are what take up that two cents on the tax base That's quick and dirty any questions How far towers road are you going with that path? It's going from 128 up to clover That's far as it's going If you want more information about any one of these projects is there anywhere we can go to get that Yeah, all you got to do is let me know and I can pull it out In the past we've had this narrative which has kind of helped I kind of like that so I'm Kind of debating whether next year we do this cost analysis what you have which we would do anyway But maybe provide a narrative so we can give more information on each one of those projects The fact sheet in the back that really identifies what it is You know a 12-inch waterline between point a and point B and estimate what that cost is So we've got that for each one that doesn't show up on the web page this does So you ask you actually have to dig a little for it and maybe that's too hard Maybe we need to go to a different system to Pull that other stuff forward Okay, why don't we Yes, it's a state project and it probably would have gone this summer except there's a large Culvert that's down near our pump station and and our force main is very close to the culvert and About a year and a half ago we got into Fisticuffs with the state at a public hearing for the select board because They didn't recognize that in fact That pipe is a too long two-mile long force main 12-inch diameter if that sewer pipe breaks We're in deep trouble And so they've we asked them to redesign around that They were reluctant to do that until they find out that found out that that was actually within the property when it's limits of the Cirque Highway, and it's actually their pipe to replace Worked out fine for us I don't think they're trying to go to full bike lanes because there's some places along that road where it's very difficult to do I think what they're trying to do is where they can Stretch that shoulder You can also change your guard rail type, and if you change your guard rail type it can pick up maybe another foot So you can stretch some of that to get Maybe not a complete full four-foot bike lane, but maybe a three-and-a-half foot one And I know that's what they're trying to do So the project has really been delayed because they're dealing with the culvert issue once they solve that then they'll do the At least that's the word Let's go to the next one. This is Okay, let's do this one because it's quick. Oh, you can do the other one. Let's do this one. This is fun. Let's go back These are the paving projects that we have going for the summer Some of them come out of the capital account some come out of the operating account We're doing rapid drive. We're doing Greenfield court. We're doing Greenfield court extension. We're doing Kimberley Drive Greenfield Road, we're gonna do North Wilson Road, but not the bridge up to the bridge We're gonna do towers towers road a portion of towers road That's really just it's a temporary fix to basically put a thin coat on it's a pretty bad shape And we want to put a thin coat on wait for the Sidewalk project to come next year when they carry everything up and then his next year's paving budget put in money To redo that whole road correctly. So this is it's so bad We need a stopgap, but we're trying not to put a whole lot of money into it It's still $10,000. So it's still a lot of money to buy us a year. Is that is take that recycle pavement reuse it but is that a Short stretch of towers road as well It's about once the same the same the same about the same place as the sidewalk Yeah, we will stretch it as far as we can get it But we wanted to at least it's so bad. So righted so many holes We want to at least get it covered so we get through next winter And then if it gets torn up with the construction that goes on for the path, then we'll go in and Any of the roads like that that we recycle or mill and fill we take that recycling material take it to the landfill store it When we get enough we bring a crush over re crush it and use that as it's a great base for the gravel roads It doesn't absorb the moisture and it gives a lot of strength So we do get to have the grant for sandhill road We're gonna we're gonna be able to go a lot farther than we thought we could Then you start to get into it and we're gonna do Prescott Street also a portion of Prescott Street keep going Steeple bush Susan Wilson road bypass if you've driven on that from about Kellogg for the first 4500 feet pretty rough. We're gonna fix that enough Just that one sort of small section And the same on a portion of steeple bush then these are village projects What we've done the last couple years is bid our projects village and town together under one bid and It gets us a better price a lot more quantity one contractor. We're dealing with It just it works for both of us So that's that's one of the direct benefits of working together with the village on projects Next one, how much I'm gonna do it on time These are the major projects we're working on These are the stormwater projects we're doing Sydney Drive Under our Existing permit we had to do four projects. We identified we did a study Four projects to meet the requirements to restore the keep the flow within certain limits in Indian Brook Sunderland Brook right now is fine Indian Brook is not there's two in the village and two in the town. So we're gonna Sydney Drive There's an old Basically, you take it in a big pipe and have a small pipe going out and you paint it Also, you get the big storm that goes out the overflow in your back But it'll retain that first inch of stormwater flow or more store it We're also putting treatment on the end of that. We're putting some systems in place Where we're gonna run whatever comes through that system through a filter We've New Hampshire's found that if you build a filter with wood chips sand And in some places you can use the material. That's the waste Sludge from the water treatment plant from Shampoong water district It's got ferric chloride in it. It loves to take out phosphorus So if you layer that stuff in a filter and run water through it, you not only store To handle the flow piece of it, but you get credit towards removing phosphorus And that's what our next permit is gonna look like is removing phosphorus. So that's one we're doing Plankers drive sidewalk again, you can see the cost of what the local shares on those you keep going up towers road sidewalk Go through these pretty quick Okay This is this is the one that's out by 2a They've already put up the new they're putting up new signals out there They're also going to widen to a between the two circumference to three lanes three lanes or four And so that will be done probably by fall of this year That's planned to get in there and finish that one out That will not include a sidewalk we've gotten land from the Jason developer to put one in The state That's in the sidewalk impact fee list Either either the impact fees directly or use those in the impact fees to leverage to have your state grant to get Construction Our sidewalk impact fee account is kind of broke. It's not broke, but it's a wall And so we're trying to take this year not to go in after any new grants number one. We can't manage them in number two We don't have enough matching money Use a couple years of money to put into that so we then can go after a larger grant that we can do something significant And that's maybe one that we Adopted Sidewalk grant I mean the sidewalk got impact fee. No, no still under review, right? We've also put money from the capital fund in the sidewalks in the past This is the one that the state's doing out on 15 And No, I do my budget night. I pay bill and I forget how expensive these things are, but I mean that's that path from about Winooski over to Susan Wilson Road is is about 1.5 million dollars That's just a path. That's not a road. That's a 10-foot one path They don't come cheap The states aren't even doing this. This is part of what you're seeing up here with all the signals being put in That's that's that particular project. That's already underway They're working on the Vermont 15 Sandhill Road intersection Sharon asked me before that's probably two years away It's in the plan final plans are being done They've got to go through right away, and then they're going to build that but that's for that to put signals at the intersection of route 15 and Sandhill This one is a big one That's probably going to be closer to 12 million by the time we get done the states done some initial work on that We had a hearing last week on it. It includes the intersection of Susan Wilson Road and route 15 The quarter and Susie Wilson Road to Kellogg Road to try to get bike paths in there and the redesign of the whole Kellogg Road intersection And there's there's difficulties and issues. We don't have a whole lot of right-of-way and some of the developments that are out there have Retaining walls right up to the limit of the right-of-way so you can't widen the road on that side other side You've got power poles, so it's going to be very difficult. It's going to be expensive in a long project That's probably somewhere between five and seven years out So in the meantime, we've got a deal and we have a I won't go into it today because I don't want to there's a project That's coming up on the boards that I think we've got a plan We can work with the developer put some of our impact fees in Equipment out of Susie Wilson Road that'll give us that gap between today and when this project goes in To try to alleviate some of the traffic problems next one North Wilson Road We've started discussions on that the state's picking that up one again again look at the intersection of North Wilson Road and 117 There was two alternatives a roundabout or a signal select board pick signal State wasn't sure they've come back. They're now comfortable with the signal that design is going to start again That's probably five to seven years out for a signal at that intersection This one is a small amount of money compared to the others but trying to put If we can signs up on route 15 Maybe electronic message boards and a better system of control that when North Wilson Road floods We need to be able to drop gates. We need to let people know that we're coming down route 15 from Jericho that Don't go sandhills go Route 15 and continue down to the Cirque that way because the problem We've had as people get down to the bottom of Hill at Sandhill Road or get ever over to North Wilson all of a sudden It's traffic jam because you can't go across and then their option is to come back into the village or go up to Richmond We want to catch them ahead of time That's Not actively being done, but we're working slowly away at that This is the one we put this one off Right now nobody's occupying the property that's old stage road route 15 northwest corner Old solo off property Nothing is happening with that today This sidewalk would go from old stage road down On the north side and connect in and the state said they will fund it We've decided to hold off on that until We get more clarity in what's happening up in the town center area But that is that would be a funded project to take and connect sidewalk between here and here Right here, there's a path that goes up into the old-stage village Right Signal crossing there signal crossing there and their signal crossings here Okay, half in the south side, but not the north side right so that would that would essentially complete that loop Our assumption is and sometimes assumptions are bad things to have is that when this gets developed out Whoever developed that is going to be required Hopefully to put the sidewalk along here and then that connects that whole zone back into the center, okay? Let's see we got a grant last year again. We show up everything on here And everyone out and got a grant for us So we now have some night light towers for our sewer and water crews that we can set up if we have an emergency It's a passive safety grant We can set up if we need light at 2 o'clock in the morning. We can set up and light it up like you know time square The trans paving program 117 It's originally scheduled for 17. It's going to be extended FY 18 or 19 We will have a cost involved without a small cost. We have to pay for adjusting our sewer manholes and and water valves that are down there That's that culvert replacement want to put these on even if it's not us we're involved with it that one culvert That's down there near our pump station That's right now a metal culvert that's probably as big as this room is a million and a half dollars to replace So none of these projects are cheap Okay, and it's back on just quickly on 13 Paving 117 is that I mean it would seem that they're going to be doing the signaling on North Williston that would be that would be later back full That would be it would be related I mean it would be related but the the signal is going to be again five to seven years the paving will be probably next year I Was looking at this Vermont 15 Ellen Martin drives there was a scoping study that was done that identified some minor improvements We could make the intersection where Ellen Martin comes into 15 We're going to put some of those in place this summer someone has to do with improving turning radius striping Making a little safer intersection So we're going to do that on our own We've been working There's a lot on you've been working with the Regional Planning Commission the village in the town to try to come up with a better identified list of What roads we want to construct? We've done it before we both hit the both of those in town have a plan for what we're going to do It isn't just guessing which road we're going to do but what we've done is we've now combined We've inspected some of theirs they've inspected some of ours We want a program that now looks at what roads in the village need to be done What roads in the town need to be done on a priority basis and if you put them together if we were to consolidate What do you have to do? What's the cost to do that? So it's another another tool in our pocket to figure out where we're headed That should be done in a couple months We did We worked on this the sidewalk path impact policies that's come before you we've had some discussions Keep going We have a request for Under the new permit we've got to identify which of our gravel roads we're going to tackle first What a quality we've got a grant From the state to get an outside consultant to look at that and give us we've got the list of what we have to do We just want somebody to prioritize for we just don't have enough time to do it Keep going That's that one up here scoping project for the path and Athens Drive to the Cirque We've also got a project underway that is about half done To see where we're not ADA compliant in the town in the village And there's a lot of places that we probably aren't we can't tackle them all We want them to take the kind of the priority intersections and look at those and come back with a list of At this intersection we recommend a bcd and a so we then have a game plan to go after to start fixing each one of those in an order As opposed to piecemeal, you know, we find a spot or we got a complaint We'll fix it. We're trying to do that in a more orderly process. So that will be available Probably this fall. Does the state come and check on those type of projects? No Generally the only time those will come up is if there's a complaint If somebody has a disability and can't get to a location it gets checked So we're trying to be a little more positive about that and actually come up with a plan that says and it's expensive I mean, there's a lot of them in the village in town that don't meet standard Well, I don't know we're built in the 50s and never had a hat and kept accessor so what we really need is a plan and then a Financial plan how much you can spend each year to fix each one It's probably going to take us 25 years to get them all fixed And there'll be new rules and there'll be a lot more people that need But that's why we want to prioritize so we can go after the worst ones first and the ones where there's the highest traffic We the CCRPC does traffic counts every year for us in the town in the village. That's kind of ongoing Economic development committee requested a look at 117. It didn't make it through the process It's on the list, but there wasn't enough money in scoping funds for the regional planning Commission They didn't push it forward this year and he got a grant for another portion of We get a portion of Osgoode Hill Road using our own crew So this isn't really money out of our pocket. It's time and labor out of our pocket that qualifies Let's see and then this is the one in the village from West Street to the fort Okay, I hope we're almost done This is No, okay, we're working on this one LDS Church site We hope to have an infiltration system Infiltration isn't going to work the soil won't take any water No surprise there. So we're going to do a stormwater storage system. LDS has given us permission to use their site We've negotiated that after a couple years of negotiation They've been really good working with us and it's going to take an account for some of the stormwater that's coming down from portions of LIDA and REPA and some of those other places that drain that way It's going to take some of Essex Way. It's going to take the church stormwater put it all into one system And again treat it to a point stored store it treat it so we get credit for flow restoration and phosphorus That one we got a ton of grants. That's the That's the cost of the project. That's the number of grants we got so instead of costing the town That kind of money and LDS is donating the site It's 260 that $269,000 and these monies have already been collected through our our Fee structure and through taxes. So these are in the bank. It's not gravel road management plan. This is kind of a fun one. We're going to do we picked three cul-de-sacs Two in the town and one in the village They're totally and you're gonna I Haven't put them up there. I Even remember which which called the sex they are I even forget Those cul-de-sacs are paved edge-to-edge. They're huge Plans to take out that pavement Instead of the drainage going this way We're gonna take it this way and In the middle we'll put a green area and in that green area We're gonna put a catch basin that's tied into the other stuff and it's part of that catch basin system City of Dover, New Hampshire has come up with a pretty neat plan where you add what it looks like a septic tank onto it In series, but it's much simpler to build and then you line it with that filter material So when the storm hits it comes across the roadway onto the grass some gets absorbed some goes into that catch basin Goes into the catch basin goes through the treatment system if it's a big storm it bypasses But a small storm again, it gives us phosphorus credit and reduction in flow going through the stream so it's about Roughly now divide by three $80-90,000 a site But we want to see if it works and what we want to do as part of this is also do some pretesting And some post-testing to see how much phosphorus does it actually take out? And once we get to that point then we'll probably do more of these across town with our own labor Yes, yeah So the newer newer developments are we're picking it up and doing that But it's the old ones we have to retrofit and I think we've got something like 60 or 70 of these cul-de-sacs that are the old type So there's a there's a lot of places we can Fix stuff and meet our stormwater requirements There's that waterline in the fort we're talking about And then the last one we got is when we had the windstorm last fall We qualified for FEMA aid and we're gonna get back Around $60,000 from now And I think the rest of them I won't go into because I think the rest of them are all village projects. Yeah questions Back to number 17, which was the Impact policies that you guys are working on. Yeah, I'm just like, you know, for example The old solo off property where you may have one development that comes in and then the next one isn't for a couple of years And it doesn't really make sense to build that sidewalk, but we want to collect the money for it you guys have a You guys have a good structure in in place where you're determining What the requirements going to be for the sidewalk or what they're what the developers going to have to bid so we have like a Square foot impact fee that you can collect if we decide if the planning commission decides what doesn't make sense to build One little section sidewalk that ends here it ends there So I'm just wondering you is that part of what number 17 is that's part of it And I think the other part of it that we wanted to try to do And no reflection on the planning commission like that But in the past none of us have been consistent about how we've applied those impact fees for paths And we'd like to get some consistency that says okay if you're living out in the boondocks Maybe you still contribute to a sidewalk path to you maybe a lot less than somebody else But there should be some amount that's Contributed towards that. I think the Economic Development Committee was Commission was concerned that this might drive development away. I don't think we're looking at large dollars I think we're looking at some dollars But the biggest thing is to have a policy in place so that if if your development is coming in a place where the Sidewalk is absolutely needed the so-called property being to me. There should be a requirement to build and that's my view Or collect enough funds so the town could build if you've got a piece of that And other places it may be just be collect some funds and put them aside Or it may be the planning commission decides that if you look far enough out you don't contribute everything I don't really care. I just think that we've reached the point. We need to be consistent So we're not looking at it and giving you advice project by project But there's a policy that says when this comes up. This is how we're going to handle it So you think you'll have that in place by the end of this yeah We'll be working with Darren and we're sharing to try to come up with something that I think the first run through that the consultant Did the cost were pretty high. I think what we want to do is look at that and say can we can we still get done? We want to get done but get those costs down so the development community and go my god, you know another fee so is it based on on a need do you think or is it based on a Sidewalk standard based on location. I mean, I'm just it's it's well I mean certain locations helper or for the applicant is that they don't they're like well How come you're asking for that much if I do it a ten-foot path or an eight-foot path, right? I hate is it gravel, you know, what is the purpose of multi use? So I think I think it's really important that they have we have that like identified somehow So when you when they come in it's like you've got x number of feet. It's eight feet wide This is the standard here. This is how much this how much we're going to collect and part of that I think we can provide you because if we know that there's going to be a ten-foot wide path here and a ten-foot wide path here Then probably that gap ought to be filled with a ten-wide foot wide path But if it's sidewalk then we probably need to provide something that in that particular development case the recommendation would be a Sidewalk impact fee based upon some standard that you can just say okay, just pay that fee and be done with it There is there are some tools available to look at the whole town and even portions of the town to say What is the bike demand? What's the basically the traffic demand in terms of bikes and pads? They can be used as a standard for that. They're actually talked with someone at the National Planning Conference who could bring that to us so we can look into that And I think that the public works will also be part of their project review memo similar to water and sewer They'll give us a section of yeah, how they're calculating Why this project is being asked for and we have a policy in place then it's pretty easy to say in this case We recommend you go to Policy position to right against a stake in the ground that gives us that gives us well feel more comfortable saying yep I'm sorry. That's what it is But even in to the opposite if we if we feel that we need to have a waiver or something along those lines that we have a specific Criteria that you know we are We're going to grant a waiver X because we don't it makes it a lot easier to put that in place no matter which way we go Yeah It also illuminates a lot of the question when they when the applicants and developers are coming in because they know what they're aiming for and not Trying to see what they really want right good We had a question from the audience Yeah Just for the just for the recording is your name Steve Ock Then sad question about sewer capacity What I'm mostly interested in is the area that would be West of 15 and north of Sir Highway And specifically maybe the yield of property. Yep, and you know We have been given some some level of capacity over but not something that we can take off with so we're we're just kind of Holding holding on a pattern and not nothing moving on it, and that's 12 acres of development. That's just Right, and it's in the sewer core it is. Yeah, but so I was wondering first of all, no, where do we stand on capacity and We have the same question so we about Little short history a long time ago. I worked for Hamlin and designed the sewer system You never want to operate something you design You know like a car manufacturer you learn for your mistake now, it's not that bad but They've done all along the look at our system our pumps are lined size capacity and growth so when Planning commission started to embark on what are we going to do with the town center area? We got with them and started to study the first draft of which is on my But it looks at our entire system our entire system is pretty robust But we're trying to get to a number For an area to say okay What capacity do we have there or what do we need to get capacity? Just give a quick example that particular area Drains ultimately to the pump station that's down in the golf course. We call it the Lang Farm pump station That pump station is pretty close to capacity But capacity isn't a hard thing to fix at the pump station You increase the size of the pumps you increase the size of the impellers If you have power if it's three-phase power whatever you have it's easy. You just have to know If you add this much demand When do I have to change that pump out? And then the other piece of that is that force main that connects on up If it's a given size is that force main large enough to handle the increased flow from the pump? Or are you trying to put an elephant through a straw and So we've got to study it's on the desk Aaron and I have a joint responsibility to review it Make any recommendations or changes get it back to them and then our plan is to turn that over So it's public information people to look at it understand okay And so the answer your question the system is robust We have the ability to handle additional flow We are collecting fairly significant impact fees and So we're not looking to have a developer initially come in and say you have to replace that pump Just the fact that we've been collecting impact fees we have significant dollars We can put in to replace that pump We just need to know when and if you replace that one that one pumps into heritage pump station Heritage pump station pumps all the way around to the one by Alder Lane and ultimately goes down to to Alder Brook Alder Brook is fine for capacity But you have to look at each one of those So as you add that flow to change the pump here you change that one you change that one But we're getting closer so hopefully within a month or two months we'll have answers that we can provide to people It's about about the eighth that we've tried to be proactive on our property We've actually even directionally drilled underneath the road only to Make sure that we could get to capacity or have capacity when it is available and we have now tied on to water and sewer But what we don't we still don't have the capacity Yeah, and that's an issue that the when we get the report done It also goes to the select board because in that it should say globally in our system we have X thousand gallons of capacity left and Then an applicant like yourself could come in and say I want to I'd like to build this and I need 25,000 gallons or 20,000 gallons. That's a select board decision to say we'll take out of our reserve and provide that to that site But they need that information before they can make that decision so that's what we're trying to get Dennis the sense at sometimes when we were talking about applications of it's almost you know a chicken sort of thing because when if if a Level of development is going to trigger the pump station upgrades but a lot of times we Restricted development or development is held back because we hear that the pump station needs upgrades So it's kind of like which is gonna It seems like it's a it's a it's a challenge to move a development app forward if that development app might be the the The needle straw the straw. Thank you, John They broke the camel's back there that pushed us over the edge to drive that Upgrade, I mean we're where how does this fit in because it kind of seems like we're I think we can do a lot of that ourselves But it is a computer model Just like our water system is computer model through a different company All Janelia has done our water model and Hamlin has done our sewer model. We can go back to them and say Take 20,000 gallons Put it in here. What's the impact? So like if you if a development that comes to public works for review Is that is that a portion of your review that okay? This would require us to do X. Yes If Jenny the numbers have been coming in are small enough Or we already know based upon the history We've already because we've been through the story to the third time we've done the study So we know if it's close or not if it's gonna get and that's why we wanted to study update If it's gonna get close We're gonna go back and say throw that into the model and let us know are we over the capacity at that point in time? It may not the real issue isn't does that developer have to put the pump? Increase size and that's not the issue the issue is is their capacity there that the select board will release Okay, so that's up to and then they pay their impact fee And it's up to us to put that in place so that when their first gallon comes down that pump is running the way it should be Right so an applicant coming in if their development would be the trigger development They would have to potentially go to the select board to say to approve my my increase in capacity and Then that would trigger the Anything that's if you've we've got this map that identifies a lot has 1,000 gallons permitted somebody wants to come in and use 3,000 With our limits we can do that with that's not an issue and they go to the select board to get approval for the 3,000 gallons It's done Now somebody comes in with a thousand and wants to put 30,000 in Or they want to put in a brewery Which maybe only has 2,000 gallons worth of flow, but Organic loads off the cliff Those are different animals and those we've got to evaluate one-on-one and then provide that information To the Planning Commission that this is a special case we then we've got a couple of these breweries that want to expand and so We are case it would be conditional upon select board approval of the increased Capacity and we've also tried to accommodate I'm getting a little bit off stream We tried to accommodate those that if it's a small brewery We will charge them a surcharge for their extra-strength waste if they grow we want pretreatment We want them to and that's any anything we issue on a wastewater firm It's going to be you want to come in great try your couple barrels a day sail it works if it's great beer We'll come down share it with you But no I'm serious, but but you know that's okay Just pay the surcharge because we know you're putting in a higher load But when you get above and Aaron's worked out the numbers with an engineering firm when it gets to that higher level No, you put in pretreatment Also pull an application if we had scheduled it and we get big warning flags with your memo Like you need to talk to the select board before you can even say anything for example So it will hopefully be resolved and you guys would condition and we're trying to give you a package that's clear That's not and usually met with these people a couple times before and to try to work out the details I will say that I think I'm not going to say lately, but I think the Applications that have been coming in the work that public works Staff and applicants have been doing ahead of time has been really phenomenal Because we're getting recommendations not you know not obstacles right and that makes that makes the discussions a lot more collaborative and Beneficial to everybody involved so that I'm really appreciative what you guys have been doing and definitely Dennis what public works has been doing with us So the issue is not necessarily the stations and the upgrades to the stations which will be covered by the town whenever the capacity gets hit It's the overall capacity Treatment plant and how that gets allocated. That's the limitation for development and who gets what? And if there's an agreement to issue the to to allocate the capacity then the if the pump station needs to be engaged That's all part of that right and just as a quick side example if the solar array goes in off a River Road That has a hundred EU's associated with it because originally was scheduled to be a development and they had approval for all hundred times to To 200 is what 20,000 gallons a day You don't need any switch for solar panels So that capacity will go back into that overall global number that says we now have additional 20,000 gallons to allocate to other users that may come in the door So here's a question for for for you and for staff. I mean in the past when Allocation hasn't been used on a on a parcel. I don't recall that. It's been taken away Have it in the map, but it's just not Officially allocated in that that particular development and someone else could come in and want to use more This is a little bit different, you know different if we're going to be putting in a structure that won't use it There's a there's an allocation still stay with the parcel Policy is pretty clear in that that we can call it back And we would do that to ensure that that's fair the difficulty with smaller parcels is businesses may come and go with needed today Might not be what's needed tomorrow, right? So we don't want to play with that but the way we look at it is we have a measured flow going to the treatment plant and We measured capacity that difference is what's left and that difference is then allocated and when you allocate everything on the numbers on the map You've got someone here shorter presentations This is my third meeting this week, so it's Thank you, thank you Really good, and it helps to know this is stuff is out there when we see stuff coming in so thank you Anybody has any questions like I said we're gonna we put this one up on the web page The capital plan is on the web page and if anybody has gee I got a question about this particular project just contact us, so appreciate it Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Dennis All right Let's take a five-minute stretch break because everybody's been sitting including everybody everybody All right Oh Yeah Hey, that was pretty neat Pretty neat we all set. Okay. We are back on Oh, thank you next on our agenda is our ETC presentation Who goes first I'll go first Good evening, okay, welcome. Nice to see you guys again. I'm just for the record. I'm Mark Kane with SE Group And I'm joined by Sharon Murray This is an update on the ETC Everybody here mark. Okay. This is a metric So if you can't hear feel free to roll up a little closer we also get the screen back there So I can speak up as well So thank you for the chance to come and give you an update on the draft ETC Master plan ETC next master plan. It's been a couple months. I guess since we were here last And in that time what we've been we concentrate on on getting out the the current draft, which is in April Which included chapter eight, which is the one chapter we hadn't gone over with you guys last time So I want to spend the focus of today's tonight's conversation is largely around chapter eight And it was a very appropriate that Dennis kind of went ahead of this because Dennis was sort of Keying into some of the things that chapter eight describes. So I'll just kind of walk around that a little bit So I want to talk about some of the key recommendations from the study and Also want to talk about how some of the suggestions that we're recommending in terms of how you might put together our regulatory framework to take some of the ideas that are embodied in the plan and Realize them and then we'll talk a little bit about maybe a schedule Of how we might suggest you guys handle that because I know this obviously is Where some of the ideas that are expressed and the plan is going to fall onto the planning commission to figure out What to do with it? So we have a we have a strategy that we're going to walk through around that um, the I might have to stand up because it would be easier just to talk to us from on that side over there I think it might I'm going to sit next to Darren if that's all right with you guys I'm nor am I Darren is a fine man might protect better for the audience as well. So I'll do my best to speak so You know one of the key recommendations was that we suggest it was looking at route 15 as a as a really important asset as as you know Within the study area the etc route 15 is it it's the it's the most important thing that Sort of connects everything together and it was great hearing Dennis talk about some of the sidewalk improvements That had been sort of are in the at least in the planning phase Related to a long route 15 and this is actually kind of a consistent with that recommendation But one of the things we identified as a possible Challenge to the evolution of the etc is the fact that at president is a state highway And and the state has some constraints on on doing things within the state highway not surprisingly There is a program that the state has really been pushing lately to to to help towns migrate the change of status of a road from a state highway to a class one town highway and we I won't go into all the details of the report actually covers a lot of that ground, but Basically it shifts some of the responsibilities of maintenance from the road from the state to the town in In exchange for that change in in responsibility You do get some greater control Now we don't know today exactly Um, whether or not some of the improvements along route 15 might be okay to happen within the Current relationship between the town and the state and that's and it's entirely possible that some of those things could happen But there are certainly some suggestions in the etc plan Uh things like a planted median for example that I Suspicion is is that the state would probably have a hard time taking over maintenance of that So We went through this process in the in the study about looking at what would it be? You know, what would be the consequence of taking some control over over portions of route 15 and luckily for everybody's sort of benefit here is You know some of the flexibilities that you get are design flexibility so things like traffic calming measures and wayfinding and medians and You know addressing crosswalks for example, you have much greater flexibility So for example, if you want to do bulb outs at crosswalks Under a class one town highway, that's that's going to be much more provable state highway It's uncertain maintenance obviously one of the things I you know Dennis would probably be able to talk to this in great length But the fact is your plows are probably already driving by On route 15 quite a bit to service all the local roads anyway So one of the things that the state has found is that because of that maintenance efficiency for winter plowing for example can be a lot better Depending on the roads that are taken over. It's just a little more efficient traffic management. We talked about that one of the things that I think is really important for the etc master plan is this idea of access management and starting limiting um access to route 15 and obviously the way it works now because it's a state highway It's the state's purview to whether or not to grant access to the highway If you guys control the right of way Then it's your purview and as as I think as we look at the long-term evolution of the etc Trying to consolidate access points and curb cuts and limiting some of that Cross you know flow across the traffic across 15 would be a good thing And obviously this would put the town in the driver's seat on that discussion And there may be some benefits relative to utility infrastructure although a lot of that seems like it's already in place. So that's not as important so um we looked at a analysis of of this taking over about a 1.4 Mile stretch Basically from here to 128 as it's way to 128 And the state has this really handy analysis tool that makes a lot of very generalized assumptions and It suggests that to do that that the the net cost of the town would be about 11,500 per year to do that Not in consequential money for sure, but not you know an unordinent amount of money There is you know, obviously some questions And I know Dennis has actually pat relayed through um Darren some you know Obviously the the actual cost may be higher And obviously this the one of the things that we're recommending is that this may be taken a little bit further And in conversation with v-trans is sort of say, okay, what would it really do? But the I think the basic underlying premise behind it is that um, you know, and It's not necessarily needed today But in the in due course is to look at this and say okay Is there is there benefits associated with Taking this over so that we can realize some better crosswalk points We can actually maybe do some of the median improvements we're talking about can we control the speed limit slightly The state's going to have interests in that conversation on making sure that the flow of traffic through here is is really good Um, and that's obviously going to be a conversation that needs to happen But I think the general um The general impression that we got from looking at this was that it's certainly worth As a recommendation for the town to do a little more work on this point And it sounds like dentists has been thinking about that a little bit So that's really good and I think it's a really worthwhile thing to pursue Just wondering mark just for for looking at this. It's missing a traffic light. Is that intentional or is that? Oh, yeah, it is. You're right. That was a graphic error. You're right. Okay. Um, that should be one right there Yeah, um, so the idea is that the um, you know, this would be a a A worthwhile pursuit for the town to sort of consider again And the way this works with this with the state is it's not necessarily all or nothing proposition They don't they don't actually dictate how much road you take over now This is a good recommendation because one of the things that's that is Recently been percolating on this is is whether or not the town should go ahead and pursue a designation Of the sx town center as a growth center And if you did that it would probably make a lot of sense to Align that with the the class one town highway Area just for purposes of keeping everything kind of this in in the same uh framework but You know, you it could be decided that the the the the segment of road that needs to be taken over is is here Where there's a lot more development potential and there's a lot more interested in crossings and such So just something to be thinking about You said to sx way doesn't that continue all the way down to Um, I'm sorry. Yes, you're right. It's uh billy butler. Yeah, sorry. Thank you. Yeah I have a question So I haven't really you know, I've been involved in much of the etc plan or whatnot, but Um, I'm just wondering how we came about identifying the problems that we're trying to solve like Managing traffic speed and I just know As someone that's lived in sx a long time going up and down that corridor. I'm lucky if I can go the speed limit most of the time So I don't know is that really an issue or are we trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist That's one of the thing that's one of the that's one of the factors that is that the Program allows for flexibility around whether or not the town needs to take advantage of that That's completely In that we haven't analyzed that and you're one thing to put that in context is that section of road We can't we don't set the speed limit right so the state could come along and all of a sudden drop it down to You know 25 miles an hour if they want to do or raise it to 50th I mean they wouldn't but probably yeah, but I mean that makes me it kind of makes me worry about the The interest and put in medians and as well because if that's If it has the effect that it's saving an atc plan of slowing things down I'd hate to hurt to get even worse than it already is I guess that's worse is Let's not get too deep into the that The weeds just yet because worse Could be could be assisted by able by being able to to Pull the traffic differently change the traffic flow Which makes could make it more consistent and not just just asolid I mean weekends and days or and weekdays are completely different And the wait times and so forth are severely impacted. So All these are traffic control measures that if they're within the town's purview, this is what I'm I'm interpreting you're right. You have the fact that you gain the you gain the ability to look at that I think the other thing I would suggest is to think about is is that You know what you'd set the speed so say a median was what you know A median was something that was that has been discussed a long time ago the original etc plan And has something that came out of the public processes something that may be desirable for several reasons one is it does Help to limit curb cuts On to 15 which from a from a circulation perspective and a sort of a placemaking perspective of maybe an advantage A desirable outcome But it also could make sure that the like those crosswalk points actually have much more function at that point Because the medians will actually make those, you know, that would be a that would be a byproduct of that If there's a median and there's a really good crosswalk, that's where people and bikes are going to actually use it So it so it may actually be in some ways You could actually Keep the speed a little bit higher because you're going to have better and more functional crossing points That are signalized have bulb outs have all of the things that make people realize that these are the crossing points and Help create that environment for pedestrians to move across 15 and that really is the John that's the really the big thing that that the planning process sort of Kind of came to is is that as this whole thing builds out and say we get lots more residential on this side of 15 and there's some infill over here on 15 Or up here even you know the ability for people to go across 15 The pedestrians and bicycles to go across 15 becomes elevated to importance And that's really the primary one of the reasons that we think that looking at taking some more control over this and having some More flexibility of what you can do puts the town in a better position to address some of those changes And another factor that goes into this but isn't necessarily within the scope of this project is Looking at alternative routes around this area. For instance, if the alamart and parkway connection was ever made Then that would eliminate some of the traffic demand in this particular route We provide an alternative way for people to get to where they're going That's one of the things that denis mentioned is that that might alleviate some of this and might be part of the discussion Just we want to look at this and we're yeah, and I think it just you know just to be clear I think the report does a good job of talking about this. It's like, you know Nothing that's been recommended thus far. I think materially changes the importance of 15 as a as a conduit for traffic I think that was a kind of going in Data point that everybody realizes that this is really important for people to be able to go through this This part of town efficiently in a car I think the I think the the primary objective in the plan was to sort of maybe Turn the needle slightly to make the pedestrian experience better and allow for better crossing of 15 because again as as Walk We actually I mean going back 20 years now almost 20 years You know the question about putting a crosswalk in it wasn't something you can't go to the town We couldn't I couldn't go to the town was that one across walk here Town it's not town's purview So then you go to the state and the state has criteria that doesn't necessarily coincide with What you want in the community to make it walkable. So now you have To to you know, it just it's a it's a flexibility control as I'm reading it. Yeah, look at route 15 in like pro school That's a good example That's a lot. There's no there's no there's sidewalks. Obviously there's street lights. Those are great, but there's no bulb outs Across 15 there And that would be a great place for some bulb outs across 15 there And and this is again I think this is kind of the the same scenarios that if it gives you some flexibility to look at that and say I think the flexibility is great. I was just questioning the the specific project that's talking about I guess Yeah, so the flexibility totally makes sense. You know what we want to do Something as easy as a speed limit too could turn to be a huge headache I would think because aren't those Lights from everywhere timed on now. So you make one change. So we're getting into the weeds. Yeah. Yeah One of the things again, you know going back to the recommendations one of the recommendations from this project And it's I think it's really important the towns and I know dentists will be open to this and be thinking about this is Is now that you have a have a maybe a better sense of the the long-term trajectory in terms of residential development and growth Within the etc You got to go back and look at a traffic study that factors that in because right now A lot most of the traffic studies that have been done have have functioned as etc as a conduit For traffic from elsewhere and now all of a sudden you're going to have locally derived Traffic so that needs to be factored into that too So was uh, you know, uh, denison mentioned that they do annual traffic study data Are you did did we get information on that in order to feed into this plan? There's some we look certainly looked at the Existing conditions. Yes. The question really is is that okay say we add we add Six or seven hundred nine hundred new residential Units here over time. What does that do? Um, all of this should be prefaced though, and I think this is really important is the world of transportation is changing And you know a lot of the assumptions that people in the planning world in the transportation planning world have made For the last 20 25 years May not apply as they do today in 10 to 20 years and the build out for the etc is going to be a longer range build out So it's really important I think that's another reason for flexibility to give the town some chances to sort of adapt to All of a sudden we're not seeing cars as much. I mean people maybe people that are moving here only have one car or not two That's those are trends that you actually are seeing out there. So it's really it's really kind of a It puts you guys in the driver's seat and have you have a chance to be able to adapt to some of those things that are going on Yeah, yeah So, you know, I think that was the sort of the big next steps where to sort of look at this a little bit more detail And the scenario model that we addressed only is a starting point, but a more detailed review is important And I think that's something that um, you guys could probably do on your own as a community of the resources And also work with they said work with the mpo work with other regional partners to do a traffic study that factors in an evolving etc that actually has Um, residences, you know, what does that mean? Transit will also be a should be a part of that too in terms of okay What happens is transit becomes more proliferated in the sort of, you know, the outside ring of chitinette county That will be something I know I know the we're working on that right now that is an ongoing discussion But the importance of transit in 10 or 15 years could be increased that The other sort of uh items for public investment Oh, you looked at are related to things like Parking and I know Study talks a little bit about this idea of shared parking as a really important element within the etc um, you know right now it's kind of a at the point of being um Um It's some of you guys have the purview to look at and require a consideration of shared parking The question that's sort of out there is whether or not you should be thinking about it as a as a as a mandate Uh within the within at least some portions of the etc Maybe not everywhere, but there's certainly some benefit potentially for in the mixed use areas saying Okay, when you come and provide us a plan for your parking We want you to make sure you're providing shared parking so that the neighbors next to you can You know, it's more fluid in that in regards and I think that's something that's a relatively low hanging fruit piece But uh would be a really good thing to be thinking about because it gives it gives the It sets the tone for future development that it's not every lot comes in by themselves It does their own parking and completely ignores everything that's going on around them And a related recommendation is to actually treat parking as a principal use to allow A lot to be developed for parking or for structured parking that would serve the whole area Because right now it is just treated as an accessory Under the current regulations Um So yeah, and that kind of goes you know one of the things that look at the future development plans and an eye towards municipal parking again You may want to work with developers as they come in and start to identify if there's land that they're Under utilizing or not doesn't make sense for them But they have access to there may be a value for the town to actually start to gain some control over that land To provide parking in the future And it gives you again a position of of of controlling some of that um So update the the road standards to address the incorporation So there was a discussion about you know this this conversation about the sidewalk impact fee and how you apply that and sort of We don't call it an impact fee. We're calling it pedestrian experience enhancement fund Pedestrian experience enhancement fund That's a good one No, no, that's great the pedestrian experience enhancement fund You know one of the things that many communities do is and the and the study kind of provides at least some starts for this in certain types of road segments, but it's to really work to Um clarify those and actually be very clear about that So instead of instead of having the developer come in and say here's what we want to do You actually have a template a topology that you give them and saying this is what we're expecting you to Do and obviously the fees that come along with that but also You can also if there is deviations you're starting from a position of actually having communicated some of the important things You're trying to do So there will always be occasions where somebody comes in and goes I would love to be able to do type a pedestrian improvements But I don't have access to the right of way or there's a culvert or a drainage ditch or whatever it is You can't sort of you can't anticipate every potential outcome But at least if you've actually been very clear with your type of types You can say these are the kinds of things we're looking for. How are you trying to achieve those things? And that's a really good. That's a really good strategy. And again, whether that this could apply Um Not necessarily just to the etc for that matter. It's something that the town can be thinking about to apply, you know globally Um, there are in the as you know in the draft some cross sections that we that were provided as examples It shows things like on-street parking transit pull-offs Dennis alluded to a little bit of this evaluate water pressure upgrades within the etc and determine what technical improvement So as you may recall that was one of the big things that both the study committee steering committee And the public a lot of the public talked about was the fact that Water pressure is one of the big problems You know, there's not a technical solution that we're aware of at this point That actually is is in place and is ready to go It sounds like the public works is actually thinking about it and working on some strategies towards that But that is going to be one of those things that um is is important to consider because um Within the etc because it actually puts again puts the town's emphasis on growth within the etc at You know elevates that discussion if you fix some of the pressure issues within the etc That can allow for the densities to be realized if you don't get those Those pressures up there then it puts a lot of onus on the developer to actually have to pay for those Improvements to allow them to have the pressure they need to service those buildings So it's it's kind of a proactive thing that the town might do But it's certainly worth exploring to see what the consequences of our obviously this study is not going to cover the engineering consequences of that and something that the town needs to pursue but it's a it's certainly objective that has um Come out of that similarly, you know, that's sort of a kind of a net fire flow rates for the private developers a lot of this is prefaced by the fact that The idea that one of the ideas that sort of embodied in this plan is that is that Recognizing that the etc is a really important growth area within the community and Whether you decide to make it a growth center or not a designated growth center or not It's an important growth area within the community Instead of making it about the developers trying to solve the problems That exist is you try to proactively Enable some of the growth to happen in a way and then obviously the the quid pro quo is Build it in the way we want it to look Right, so you're sort of changing the dynamic a little bit and I heard earlier about the You know the sewer allocation will get to that a little bit too the idea that Well, I have a thousand. I need 30,000 But I don't know if it's available from the select board and I have to kind of go to the select board and ask for it The flip side of that is to say the priority will be to apply allocation in the etc Because we have identified that as an area with growth within the community. We want to encourage The development to allow it to be there So instead of it instead of it kind of right now the way it works is Requests for capacity are equalized across the entirety of town somebody goes to select board and they make their pitch and they They are given the allocation or not given the allocation Um, the flip side of that is to say can we prioritize unallocated resources towards Development the etc. Does there make sense to do that? That's a big That's a sea change kind of thing But it's definitely something that you sort of see in terms of in terms of the policy tools you guys have at your disposal That's probably the sewer one is probably the best one To encourage people development to actually happen in the etc at densities that are Supported of some of the vision And that's actually very timely. I got right to it. Um And then the other part of the um, the sewer recommendation I should be eight I guess, um is The unallocated space so so right now there's I should say there's um Reacquisition of unallocated so this idea like the the the um Site with the um solar font field, right? You know, I don't know today whether or not The select board can by fiat just grab that back and say that's ours now and we'll reallocate to somebody else Um, or if there's a what the process is related to that But I would suspect and actually um, paul was very good in our steering committee about sort of saying, you know He knows already he has a hit a laundry list of of places He knew in town that we're not you're going to utilize the capacity they have so there is a question of of A I think denises the study that the hamlin has done and we haven't seen any either Hopefully identify the gross number of unallocated resources that exist for a sewer. That's great to know Um, the next question that really should be asked is okay. What's of what's been allocated? What can be reapportioned in a way that actually may be advantageous to the community and I suspect and you know our suspicion is is that there's there's a fair amount of that It's it's it's either been developed at a low density and then's not likely to re-increase density Or as a solar project, it's not going to use that capacity or it was it was it was uh, it was allocated on speck and nothing's happened so Both those things probably should happen so that the town has a real full measure of what the Um, what the opportunity is for sewer because sewer is Far and away the the most limiting element allocation for sewers the most limiting element in terms of achieving to any Any significant level of density within the etc That was the case on the original ac master plan and it continues to be and um, hopefully the neil can move on that a little bit Um Obviously there's a little bit of this going on right now consider the etc vision and doing pedestrian improvements capital improvement plans So the tower's road sidewalk actually is on the plan, which is great You know, so that's good. Obviously this this sidewalk from um On 15 that that's not been not been moving forward yet But is in the in the works is also on there So I think that's the a really important thing of this plan is as as as the town moves forward with it Is to look through some of the recommendations and start to look at that capital improvement planning process and say How many of these can get on the books? How many can be become part of the the cip work? and Consistent with that. It was great to hear denis talking about this is obviously you have open space and recreation resources Available to the town and I think one of the things that we would recommend as you look at the at the Area of the etc and say okay Where would open space be really important for the community to have access to? Is there some land in there that we could really sort of say, you know Even now before development even starts happening sort of put on a map and say this is really important for us to to You know have a conversation with the developer in the future Also looking at the parks and recreation needs and you know, again If you think about the etc over the next 20 years developing to have thousand more You know residential units or whatever that number ends up being The recreational needs within the etc are going to become bigger And that's you know, that's a really important consideration So it now is the time to be proactive with that and starting to control some land rights To allow you have that flexibility when you need a park to be able to do it Is this is the time to be thinking about that? Patrick green may not be as functional as potentially I didn't know the right word for it, but like a plaza Yes, right right, that's not just that may not be green Yeah, maybe public space utilized in other than an open field or something right right And I you know the plan the study talks a lot about about The you know a spectrum of open spaces and all of that But there may be some again This is the parks and recreation sort of one of the things they can put on their list of of plant long-range planning things to do But there's there probably will be a need at some point for just straight up Park or recreation field and you know if you have access to some of that land And you can start to look at some of that land is in that function That would be great to to start thinking about now so that when it comes time To have you know when there's enough pressure for that to be realized you're not sort of scrambling Also, it's a danger if you do it if you do it piecemeal Then you get a little plot here and a little plot there and a little plot there Whereas if you talk about it from the start you can start putting the pieces together into a functional space Yeah, and not just a good example that I think within the etc would be If you sort of look at the area on the sort of the eastern side of the mixed use district Where the newest use district was that has the long-range views of camels hump in mount mansfield You know finding some way to get some access to some open space down there Would be a really good thing to do because that the community was very clear about the fact that those views are really important And so that would then almost enforce that any development that happened around it would have to keep that view in mind So it's a good. It's a good way to sort of help to control some of that Sharon do you want to walk through this Sure as part of the project we were asked to Consider design form and some of the newer versions of or models for regulatory options to promote Development in the in the center So it basically took a look at three things the current regulations We did a review of those and in like most vermont regs. Those are pretty conventional zoning and subdivision regulation but you do have a pretty strong design review district too that overlays that Then a lot of that dates back from the the former master plan for the town center So there is some correlation between your current zoning and the previous master plan for the The district and it's also again, you're pretty familiar with how your current regulations are applied and enforced The second version we looked at form-based code, and I know some of you are at least a little bit familiar with that It's a much Well, it's looked at as a much different approach to zoning as a planner I would say well, maybe not so much it's been rebranded. Yeah, but um It is a different it does put a lot more emphasis on design and form and much less emphasis on use and things like density So under the current regulations things are distributed by zoning districts and you look at Setbacks and things like that under form-based code. You look more at the form of the building the form of the streetscape And the assumption is that if you have the right building form the uses that can use that form will go there But to be honest with you, there's a lot of a lot of the differences are just in terminology If for instance, you might have a build-to line in a form-based code You might have a maximum setback distance under a more conventional code So that's part of the difference But one of the biggest differences is how they're intended to be applied a form-based code is very prescriptive A lot of the proposed standards in the the plan would be outlined in much more detail In terms of building heights slot dimensions things like that And basically the intent is to allow everything that goes in as a permitted use to really eliminate the need for a more discretionary review by the planning commission Or a development review board if you end up going that route So it's basically it comes in the staff reviews it against the form and the code So there has to be some expertise at the staff level with regard to architectural design And that sort of thing and then it's basically stamped as approved if it meets the dimensions We're finding and working with some other communities that in one sense You know developers really like that process because it's very straightforward and streamlined On the other hand it allows very little flexibility So in communities that have adopted form-based code, they're going back to well How do we go back to some of the flexibility we had under our former code? So the third option we looked at and to be honest with you This is the most common is a hybrid code that takes some elements of the form-based code And the team has outlined that in the different chapters. So for each of those neighborhoods, there's recommendations about building types the open space types and things like that And then it it defines them either by district or by the proposed uses So there would still be use tables. There would still be some density considerations But it does elevate form to a higher standard than what you have under your current design review district Again to make sure that there's a walkable connected built environment Just to echo a little bit what Sharon was talking about many communities have a hard time with the form-based code because Developers have a hard time with it because it's got Certitude on one form, but not a lot of flexibility Similarly communities have a hard time with it because it doesn't provide enough Flexibility or leeway for other considerations. So that also doesn't allow for much community input, right? If you have a big development project You know, so you have a big development project You have an administratively reviewed form-based code and it conforms to it The the public at large is oftentimes left wondering How did that get approved? And it's so so that is exactly why a lot of communities have been using a hybrid model because it sort of finds a balance point between Giving direction on what the outcome should be But also allowing some community input so that there's some variety that may be necessary or some variations to things that weren't anticipated So again, that's kind of what we're recommending in the report, but it's still an open discussion in terms of Would like to do and again, we looked at This is the transect that's Attached to standard form-based codes and I'm sure some of you have seen these are Out there in all different forms Again, you can translate these Trancex zones into zones Are zoning districts, you know, again, it's just in some respects another name To call them, but they they in effect serve as zoning districts. So yes, we did do that We looked at what the standard transect zones were and then compared them against your current zoning districts And also the proposed neighborhood districts. So for example the mixed-use center, you know, which is in orange here The current zoning of that is mixed-use commercial mixed-use pud And it's it's form-based code Type would be a t5 or a t4 So that's the that's the relationship the functional relationship between the neighborhood idea And an actual form idea And in a hybrid code you take that form-based code those two transects tied to that and go back and look at it And translate it into a zoning district So you'd pull the elements of the form-based code out of those transect zones and stick them into the zoning, right so As Sharon we're talking we have a couple options for sort of how you might approach looking at taking this Work to date and turning it into a hybrid code And the first thing that you really should be doing is looking at the districts We're described as neighborhoods in the study in the plan and look at those boundaries and rectify them look them against the zoning boundaries and there is a correlation It was that was done as part of the process that we came to but It's really important that the planning commission have a good thoughtful discussion around that And to find you know again to find whether or not all these all these boundaries actually make sense some some parts of the ATC may not need to May need to be more more merged together So the the the diagram we've got here that has been recommended May not necessarily be the final one There may be some there may be no need for example to have two different mixed-use districts We may be able to consolidate them There's there's reasons that they're recommended like this But I think it's the planning commission should be looking at that and asking okay Is that right or the boundaries right do they need to adjust those sorts of things? um And then in the in the document there's a sort of a description of each neighborhood But what needs to come out of that is really a kind of a purpose statement Much like in a zoning district a purpose statement for each of the neighborhoods and really trying to clearly Define the purpose of each district so that you have Once that review process is done The next review process that the planning commission might want to consider is doing a Kind of a go through all of the criteria That are established within the the document and in the hybrid code Structure and ask yourselves. What do you want to regulate? And that's one of the nice things about a hybrid code is you can decide right now We've provided a lot of information about the kinds of things within the form you might regulate Um, you can regulate color if you want to not suggesting you do but you could Um, but you need to go through it and sort of say okay. What we want to regulate uses uses What does that look like we want to regulate density within each of these districts? What does that look like we want to regulate the form? What does that look like are there are there parts of form are really comfortable regulating like building heights? Arguably and actually that's a good example because under form-based code Heights are usually measured as building heights or stories Under right traditional zoning height is meant you set a district height limit like you have under your current regulations What we're suggesting is you do a combination of both that you set To define building heights that are acceptable to the community. I know there's been some discussion over that And there's probably will continue to be discussion over that But you also define a district height limit That's a little bit higher than that so you allow for some adjustments in terms of roof lines roof types Stuff that goes on top of buildings So that that that can come in under your district too Without trying to figure out how it relates to the building height and stories So there's a way to sort of mesh those two together and that's and this is though this is going This is quite a process. I mean, you know, again, we we have kind of put out a Laundry list of things you might regulate And some of them really probably are some of them are foundational to actually doing any kind of form-based code But there are some things that are discretionary. You can decide not to regulate them Some communities don't regulate for example open space types. They don't give a lot of latitude Yeah, that's kind of Vermont. That's kind of a new thing But some do and South Burlington is for example is the community that actually is starting to regulate its open space types So there's there are things within the study in the project that that are that are given to you as a as a As you go through this process of looking at this you might pick up and some might not not make sense Ultimately though, what you really want to try to do is get to A set of design a set of criteria that you guys are really comfortable Helps achieve the vision that the community is establishing And again, that's also flexibility in the process, you know, how prescriptive or You can modify your current zoning and subdivision review process to make it more or less prescriptive to Include more public input at the initial stages You know, there's ways to do that too. So that's also a consideration with regard to flexibility So our recommendation is that these two Processes with you guys would actually be done at kind of at the at the overall level not necessarily Trying to try to try to deal with it for every single district at the beginning But just in general terms, what are the things you're trying to regulate the big picture, right? Then you go into each district and you actually started to take out take those criteria that you think are most important And all of that consideration about the purpose and the vision And you apply it to each district and again each district could be different There could be some slight variations depending on the objectives you're trying to achieve Um, this is really kind of a this is going to probably be the lion's share of the effort for you Would be to look at each district again depending on what you ended up doing and asking yourself Okay, how do we take and how do we apply height to this district? How do we apply the different forms that might be appropriate to this district? What's what's the importance things we need to consider? And then the last thing which I think is really important is is the housekeeping There's the code itself and developing the code but also the housekeeping along with it So you guys have land red developer you have a zoning right now So what you want to be careful about is if you make changes relative to the etc That you don't have unintended consequences elsewhere in town That's one that that's one thing that we've Sharon and I've spent quite a bit of time Working on projects with that with that's been the case. It's also we did take some time with staff And it's in the report to develop a just an example use table Of what could be included and in doing that you realize that you know if you're really focusing on pedestrian walkable uses Some of the current more auto oriented uses may not be appropriate in some of these districts But if you eliminate them from these districts, then you got to make sure they're allowed to go somewhere else Or that they are they're accommodated somewhere else. So It's a there's a little bit of of of okay What happens here affects other things so you have to kind of go through that process That's the this is kind of the nuts and bolts part of it, but it's really important I think knowing that this is going to be the case as you begin a process like this is really important so We're suggesting Kind of a process with you guys of three steps And the first step would be over the course and we haven't sort of we'll work with staff obviously to finalize this, but Spent a meeting in july and august to review the districts And you know talk about the boundaries. Why why were they created? What's the what's the rationale behind it? Do they make sense? Are the things that need to be adjusted Are there other are the this is the description for each and each district appropriate And really sort of vet that out with you guys in some detail So you actually have that and I know there'll probably be some community input on those things and that's really this is a great time to have that Um, again, we don't know today if if all of the districts were recommending should be Should be carried forward into the code process or not and that's entirely up to the planning commission ultimately But it's really important to have that process described and maybe think it'll take a couple A couple meetings to do that No, the blanket will you know, we I've told this You know, we'll be happy to support that as necessary. That's fine Then the the discussion would be to go through those those criteria and actually just Dig into each type like okay. Here's what we're talking about with building types. Here's what we're talking about with forms Here's what we're talking about with open space types street types the whole nine yards So you guys have a really good discussion about this Density let's look at the density recommendations and ask is that does it need to go up? You need to go down those kinds of things Oh, I shouldn't preface this whole thing. Sorry Um, one of the things that we talk with staff about doing and I think it's a really good idea for this particular project is we're going to keep this current document draft Until you've gone through this process So that at the end of it if you decided Okay, yeah We're comfortable with the district boundaries. Everything's great. Da da da da Then we'll make the changes to the draft and have it match up What we wanted to avoid was the situation where you get to it Sort of this gets kind of you know complete and then you go through this coding process and then sort of revisit some things And it gets inconsistent So the idea behind this would be that we'll keep it in draft state It's informing your conversations around this conversation of rezoning And then when when you when when you finish that process will come back Make the changes that are necessary for the supportive master plan and everything will line right up And that gives you guys it gives a town a much better platform to make sure that it's it's it's solid across it particularly because This plan at that point would be included by reference in the town plan So then you'd have alignment between the town plan this plan and then your zoning And for us planner types, that's like the holy trinity That was I think it was a good recommendation It certainly makes sense and it it doesn't change the fact that you have a resource to work from so great So that again that that's probably going to take, you know You know three or four months probably of of meetings one one meeting a month I think that's what staff has been thinking about one meeting a month Or portion of one meeting a month to sort of walk through some of these things Some of those you might be on your own because I think it's really good for the planning commission to sort of Take a work session and Yeah, without us. Yeah It's fine. My feelings are hurt. It's fine Mark said we're still available as a resource so either to staff or the planning yes either way And then and then obviously But at that point I think what we're suggesting there's a big decision point that comes up after you get through these two things And and we really can't tell you At this point where are you going to go? But you know at the end of these two processes, there's really a big discussion about are you ready for hybrid code? or not and If you're not then what else can you do and as as um sharon mentioned is you already have design standards So it's really possible one of the possible solutions Or opportunities I should say that you could take is Let's go through this process. Look at the boundaries. Make sure we got those lined up You know with the purposes lined up. Let's look take a look at the the criteria and understand those more deeply Then maybe we make changes maybe you make changes to the current design standards To reflect some of the principles of these of the criteria you're looked at as instead of adopting a form-based code That's a completely plausible outcome here Or as an interim step absolutely The other thing that's that's possible is You know once you have this conversation about the districts and the criteria is you may decide That the only place you want to apply form-based code is in the mixed-use district for example And there's some rationale behind that because that's the area of the etc That's going to probably be the most at some point would have the most intensive development for sure It's mostly going to be either a new development or renovation Demolition and reconstruction Most the rest of the etc has a lot of infill And a lot of of smaller development areas So some of the values of form-based code are probably going to be less realized there It just in general terms So there's a big decision point and I think that's a really critical one for the for the community to have So many communities do apply form-based code or hybrid code only to a very small subset South brokington is city center is the the limits of their form-based code And that I can see that as an outcome here I I think it's really important for you guys to get to that point on your own So you can decide as a group that that's the right thing to do But I think that's why we sort of have this this process and then Once that decision is made the idea would be that in 2019 That would be the process of actually Whatever the outcome is it'd be let's work on getting the code adjustments made So if it's form-based code or if it's changing the design standards or doing a whole bunch of housekeeping Under your current regulations. That's what would happen And I think That's the last slide So this is good timing because I wanted to sort of pull back a little bit and just see if there's questions from from commissioners for you Or from folks in the audience We get to a certain point with this and it becomes, you know, you start to lose focus So I don't want to drive the stop for a little bit and Oh, I did before before we go there I just wanted that I I didn't wasn't able to get printed today But I will send through Sharon. I have a document. It's a primer on form-based code. It's a little 20 page What is a form-based code and for you, you know for you it's put out by Delaware. It's actually pretty nice It's a nice little you think you've seen yeah, it's a easy to read one and I'll send that to to staff So you guys saying we need something that's easy to read. It's got pictures I actually did Thank you Talked about a roadmap too. I mean, there's a laundry list here of the of suggested Things to do all the way from infrastructure to code changes Which we expect will take you more than a year To accomplish and that's why we didn't want to propose a fixed schedule for all of that stuff 13th of May we need to have the you know, I also anticipate that the build out of you know As mark has said the build out of this area is going to take 20 or more years So, I mean those are and it's going to happen incrementally So I don't know that there's a major rush to get any one thing in place Sooner than later, but you know it's so that gives you some breathing room to figure out what your priorities are in terms of You know working on the master plan And as we've seen from the last one it's going to be in place for a long time so It's worse Yes questions commissioners John You've got to have some you've already asked my question I have a Comment and sort of a follow-up question. I really like the reclassification concept a lot And maybe this is going into the weeds and maybe more proper for our july august, but if there's a light coming in At 15 sand hill I would kind of like to see maybe the reclassification extended to that point as an almost like an entry point to the the district and Allow us more flexibility with the old town green at 15 cut in half Yeah, it's an interesting point because it did come up in the community playing for us the community Engagement process about you know because the boundaries were trying to set But there always is this sort of interstitial Area on 15 between sand hill and 128 where it's like it's not quite there in there, but it's kind of in there Yeah, it's where the old where the old town green was and did that just the idea that being a little more functional Kind of intrigues me. Yeah, it's a good that's currently that's currently our historical district, right? That that's so I think going further a little bit further But not a whole lot. I mean that's that's a couple hundred yards a couple hundred yards So we might be sort of there By just acknowledging that story, but we may be able to wrap it into something. Yeah Well, I think there was that little area that wasn't covered Yeah, one of the opportunities might be to look at where sand hill comes in to 15 there that's a funky Intersection for sure, especially if there's going to be if there's going to be signaling there now Especially to be signaling there now that changes the dynamic a little bit. Yeah, cross cross the schools and stuff like that. Yeah Folks that are here thoughts we get we get a little bit of time from yes, paul in the back The first one is going back to the sewage And changing the way If I understood you correctly changing the way you're would do the allocation instead of the whole system being One allocation a general allocation and I'm listening to Dennis talk about this My comment is the Dennis needs to be in on this process Really seriously because you could plan something that he will tell you they can't do without spending a fortune So that's one And the other one is I'm not quite sure what you mean by Redefining neighborhoods or boundaries But I'm just wondering how you intend to get the people in the neighborhoods in on this So they don't feel like this is coming down on them from the top at the end sure Couple things I think you know, obviously the process to get to where we have has had some input So that's and I know you've been a part of that which has been great Um, but I think that's another reason why as it goes into the planning commission and and creating a structure around having these conversations The way the way we're suggesting it is there would be some some meetings you'd have and that actually need to be warned and noticed And and let people know what the plan is And I think it's a great opportunity to have a more constructive conversation around these things So the people sort of say okay, here's what we've gotten to and this is the idea And what adjustments need to be made to sort of address some of the local concerns So I think this is why we're suggesting a kind of continuing this process a little bit longer to to let that conversation come back And then go back and change the plan to sort of reflect what that and the end work of that So you're taking taking it kind of out of committee and into a hearing process sort of thing It seems like you know, eventually it's got to get to the planning commission anyway It really does. I mean, this is that's that's what these things do They have to get to the planning commission to because you're the harp You know, you're the folks that are going to be helping to steer this through to the regulatory structure Um, so I think it's really appropriate that the the planning commission be You know have these meetings and and get public in comment about about is that boundary right or not? Is the purpose statement right? So we say we say discussion and we can have workshops and that's more of an invite I used the wrong word I think we will we'll we'll talk about good ways to engage Potentially differently than we have in the past Looked ways to enhance that because I think we've seen a need for that Paula you all said it but Paula you all sat with that for him. Okay other Paula I was just going to comment on the Existing design overlay district and one of the major frustrations with it as it exists now Is that it has no teeth? so coming up with something that Is provides clarity to people who want to do something and also has teeth is important as we move forward Sir, you hear John Egan Well, listening to the meeting tonight the work that Dennis talked about and that we just went through here is it's very impressive You know, it's just a lot of good positive forward thinking work for the development of Essex and it's great And I like Josh was idea very much of maybe extend in the Essex town center To include that common area because that's one of the things I think we identified when we're going through the questionnaires We want green space. We want common space where community things can happen like there I know they have the Christmas tree lighting that happens there and so it's a special thing. It'd be a shame to have that Yes, yeah Going back to the conversation of the boundary, you know that district boundaries That's that's that's another reason to have another set of conversations. Just make sure that those boundaries are right. Yeah, they're in the right spot Do you think the business design overlay goes to It does it's included in the in the map when we look at the roadmap that you put up Yep, that is that the historical section is I think what josh was looking for is to extend it a little bit further down to to Sandhill, that's right sandhill reclassification to give us that Where sandhill comes in we're only we're only we're only shy about you know, we get the church We get a few residences and we're only shy a few hundred yards And then again, you know looking at all those again again that that holy trinity of of alignment It's like make sure that that's the boundary for the etc. That's the boundary for the sewer core area potentially That's the boundary for you know the the reclassification 15. That's that's that's where you start getting some good So looked at some non regulatory options that we've discussed with staff like the designations mark mentioned growth center designation Well, as you probably know as long as that's ex-junction has growth centered Designation you can't have two within the same town But there are other designations including town center does a new town center which could apply And also the village the historic district We've talked about that in terms of a village designation Just to give the property owners and the village some benefits of that But it also gives you the benefit of being able to define neighborhoods around that center So those are some options looking at the historic part of the town too See how we can improve things in that Historic part are you talking Yeah Makes me really confusing with this Yes, sir We'd love to suggest that if you in the future look to another movie night, we look for film about Foreign base coat. I think there's numbers of them out there. There would be extremely helpful. Good idea You know and the other thing I think it's terribly important to Consider our The decisions here with the impact that that's going to have on the potential consolidation of the community To your point in terms of there we may have some limits there And I think we have to realize that as we as we approach this project One thing just to for the planning commission's benefit that the steering committee was really good about though You know that we didn't want to make that the whole point of the conversation because you can get lost in The complexities of that But I think we did hear a lot from the both the community and from the steering community about the fact that they wanted the ETC to be complementary To the rest of s6 the rest of the development s6 and I think that that kind of comes out I think a lot and in both in the forms that might actually be You know Allowed and also in that use table that Sharon was talking about is your look at that those uses is that's a great point of Of uh, that's will be a great time to look at those and say, okay Yeah, these are these are uses that that the village can't really Do but really have some appeal to the community and really be a great Great resource and so it becomes a complementary discussion as opposed to a conversation or an adversarial one Excellent, all right So This has been good We've got some marching orders Um, we're real good at that So I'd like to say thank you unless anybody has any additional questions at this point um Because I think we've got to be careful. We don't oversaturate and start losing focus Um, there's a lot here. This is really good. Um, and it's it is it is readable. So thank you good Last minute anybody else final questions? All right, we'll move forward. Thank you both very much. You're here We have uh, just a little bit more business to do so we have to go to the minutes of April 26th Thanks everyone for for coming in Um, do I have a motion for the minutes of April 26th? I move we approve the minutes Of April 26th moved by shoe seconded By tom. Thank you Rough night um Does anyone have other than the grammatical corrections that sharon shared with us? Does anyone have other corrections they want to introduce into the into the document? Hearing none all those in favor of the minutes as presented Aye Opposed minutes pass Other business Hang on a second. I am going to Pass Three things around for signature since the minutes have passed Sharon do we this is just a signature on this? Okay go ahead so, um in your file folders, which you just got the paper You'll just pass that around to her. Yes, um work plan for the fellowship of the wheel up in sexon hill Um nothing You know nothing extraordinary that I feel we can call that to come We're not That's just No, no, no the other sexon hill area is not even on books. Yeah so, um Specific to the school parcel um As an fyi i'm working with the state of vermont. I think denis mentioned one of those projects They're looking to to pull a temporary use permit that i um have authorization to issue sva To use the bushy property on river road when you go up the access road each eci Carved out a lot in the state of vermont carved out a lot. They're looking to Uh, they're working with eci to use that as a temporary pad To allow their equipment and materials while they pave one um river road to richmond. I think so, um I'm staging the staging area. They'll bring in they'll bring in materials kind of like a mini con contractors I think talking about up outside Way up on the so that that road is So that road is not built yet. Um, so I I've got comments into I've got questions into public works to see What do they have to do to beef it up? Um And dependent on their answer Probably what they decide to go forward there or not but just bringing it to your attention It it it will keep a lot of truck traffic off The five corners and on the road. So that's that's kind of a plus um Another one got that rental 224 colchester road Has has spoke to his neighbor raised motor sales vacant lot 29 basically a 30 30 acre lot to to see if he could use lease 150 feet by 150 feet to put more of his equipment um So he would bust out the fence and use that padded area I feel like it's a de minimis Request it's they're not changing. It's not a boundary adjustment. It's going to be an agreement between them both It's technically expanding his His area a little bit for site plan, but again, I I feel like that is de minimis. So Um There's been no issues with that. I mean, I've there's been no issues. No complaints. It's in the back. There's no wetlands The last one 83 center road you guys approved That would be um Mike tetra where the building across from the sx discount beverage tore down and you gave him a duplex a house in a A garage They at the time of approval. It was granted for rentals. They now want to condo eyes the duplex That requires a mylar to be recorded and requires Bylaw legal document Which gets reviewed by the town attorney Don't know how you guys feel about doing a again It's de minimis to me, but I can't require them to file a mylar and pay to have the attorney's review Didn't know if you guys were open to just doing a Emotion tonight to to amend Or allow a de minimis a de minimis change to the may 11th 17th approval Which allows them to have the chair sign a mylar and get that legal document Sensitive recommendations of staff to go that route Offer a motion to that effect Yes, tom's off the motion that effect Josh seconded seconded by josh all those in favor i i posed you have your motion very good And that is it for me Thank you. Okay quickly anybody Don't take a motion I move adjourn By shoe seconded by net all those in favor i posed We are adjourned 8 46 p.m We off Okay, um