 OK, ddim i ddatblygu'r c silfadraeth yn ffritish yma. Dyma eich cilio mewn cilio. Dwi'n mynd i'n Georgie, Georgie Mael, Mael Pwyew, ac mae'n meddygau, aethno wedi i bobl Ieddarllach, ac ond mae'n amser chlwyddoedd chlwyddoedd Chlwyddoedd. Dyma eich cilio eich cilio, sef wnaeth yn ni gilydd am dwy sgwytaeth a'i gennym. Rwy'n dcenceis i bobl yng Nghoi judgments ac mae'r cilio eich cilio, the first conversation that we had, we had it with writer and food journalist Angela Hoey. Is she here? There she's at the back there. Hi Angela. Also BC, British, East and South East Asia network Amy Fung out of the front here gives a wave. And also the other panelist that we had was model singer and songwriter and my sweetheart, Jason Cran as well. Wasunhaith Mulhaith as anrhyth defno. Jason Cran yn gweithio. Bydd y ddechrau eich anodd, ddigon nhw'n fawr, fawr, yw'r anodd. Felly, mae'n gweithio'n meddwl gyda chi'ch bod yn dal i'r anodd ac i'r gen i'r ffyrdd yn llwyffydd, mae'n gweithio'n meddwl i'r anodd i'n credu gweithio'n meddwl, eich gweithio'r ysgrifennu brithau a'r anodd, ac ymgyrchu a'r anodd Cymru, ymgyrchu i'r anodd Cymru. Okay, bit of a question here. Who listened to my podcast? Hands up? Thank you very much, thank you, thank you. You'll all get a tenner at the end of this. So for those that don't know, I have a podcast called Chinese Chippy Girl where my aim is to invite guests from East and South East Asian backgrounds and to talk about our experiences of basically being an Asian minority in the UK. And I just think this is so important for us to have because generally I think ten years ago there wasn't anything like this or maybe there was but I wasn't looking for it. But I just feel now, I feel like really seeing that we're having those conversations, there's an exhibition about being British and Chinese. And obviously with the Oscars as well, we completely dominated it, we dominated it, yes. So I think it's really important to have these conversations, whether it's speaking to someone, colleagues in the, I don't know, in the cafe or something, having a conversation like this or even at the Oscars where it's just so high profile. It's just amazing that our Asian voices are amplified and we're able to celebrate our culture. Today I have a new panel with me who I would introduce you to. I have writer and journalist Li Jia Jiang. I have founder of Frank Su Foundation, Adam Lau. And I also have photographer and a brains behind eight story series, Jamie Lau as well. The exhibition is just behind here on stage. Okay, so we're now going to spotlight Li Jia. If you can have. Hi Li Jia. Hi Georgie. Okay, Li Jia Jiang was born in Nanjing in China. At 16, she was taken out of school and worked in a military factory for 10 years that produced missiles. Her works include China Remembers, All History. Her memoir Socialism is Great, which is a picture of her as well. And I think the books are available to buy at the end. Yeah, they're just there. Oh okay, just over there as well. I'll remind you all after this as well. And your works also include a novel Lotus. Li Jia appears regularly on TV, radio and international media such as South China Morning Post, The Guardian and New York Times. Li Jia, do you want to tell us more about yourself? Thank you Georgie for your very kind introduction. So I will continue to introduce myself. I'm the number two child of my family. Never had too much tension, so I'm craving any kind of tension. Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I was a rocket factory worker 10 writer. I guess probably don't need to meet one of those every day. I grew up in the residential compound of my mother's factory. All my neighbors were factory workers, working for the same factory. All my friends were the children of the workers. Becoming a factory worker was probably the most outcome, but I had a grand plan. I want to be a writer and journalist. I had this dream ever since my teacher started reading my writing as a good example to show other students under one writing competition. But when I was 16, I was taking out of school and put to work at the factory, my mother's factory. That was 1980, so you clever people can quickly work out how old I am precisely. The reason was very simple. We were very poor. I think China has changed so much. I think probably even for my children it was very hard to imagine how poor we were, how poor China was. I'm a big foodie partly because we didn't have good food to eat. In fact I was often hungry, so I always had this craving for meat. On the hot summer days my brother and I used to go out to catch a psychiatrist and roast them over a bonfire and mount them up. If you haven't tried, I dare you. I think the reason for my mother took me out of school was very simple. We were poor and also I think being uneducated my mother never saw the benefit of education. She thought the most important thing for mother was to secure a job for her daughter. Especially the factory my mother worked for and I worked for was very prestigious. Among other products it produced intercontinental missiles that were capable of reaching North America. You were working in this factory? Yes, but no fear, no fear. I was no nuclear scientist. I didn't know any top nuclear scientist. The job I was assigned to was to test a pressure gauge, very simple and repetitive. Worse of all there was just a lot of control and the factory was very much a mini communist state and provided lots of things, workers, dining halls, libraries, shower houses, hospitals, but also controlled our life. My life was just limited in the factory. I lived in the factory's dormitory and I went to work and after work I went to the shower house run by the factory. Every month all the female workers had to go to this hygiene room to show the so-called periods pleased blood to show we were not pregnant. That is so crazy because I have actually read a little bit and we kind of spoke about this. Yes please. I know this is in your memory as well but this is something when I was doing my research on you. You spoke about the period pleased and I was like what is the period pleased? I read more about it and so did they really have to check all the women to check if their periods came? Yes because that's all and then you go to show them and you'll get a bag of sanitary tower. The name was down in the name of looking after female workers social welfare but effectively part of the strict family planning control. That's so crazy. Sorry I have a billion questions about this. Was it something that you would have to go to them when you were on your period? Yes. I'll just give you an example to show that you know how controlled our life was. Anyway I hated my life at the factory. When I tell my international friends that I worked at a rocket factory for ten years people say wow that's so fascinating but for me that was just mind-numbing so destroying experience. As a scape root I decided to teach myself English so hopefully I could get a job as an interpreter with some of the western factories that were slowly, companies that were slowly setting up shops in Nanjing. Learning English, lots of Chinese people meet today you speak excellent English. At that time in China learning English was difficult. I had to borrow a radio from my cousin and I followed a program called New Concept English. The new concept indeed I've become fascinated with this language system so different from our Chinese characters. So much so I've become really quite obsessed. I've often found myself talking English to myself or sing Carpenters songs. The Carpenters sing a song. I heard learning English songs was a good way to learn the language. Probably you think that Carpenters was a bit naff and uncool. But for us Carpenters represented the high culture from the west because Carpenters was the first western album that went on sale in China. So slowly some of my colleagues look at me with very eye and under my self-nickname they called me a toad who dreams to eat swans meat. Meaning I was dreaming something possible. A little factory worker, why would you want to learn English? You told me you would never be able to master language and I just didn't care what other people thought about me. Individualism has never been a strong part of our culture. We have lots of sayings for example urging people to not stand out, do not be different. For example the birds who flies out first get shot first. You know pigs should be afraid of getting fat. So all these things just tell you not to be different but slowly I didn't care. Because the concept of individualism took roots in me. After my English improved I began to listen to BBC which broadcast news very different from our Chinese propaganda. I become political with our friends. We're talking about politics all the time. You know what was the separation of the power. But the democracy work without the answer to China. In 1989 I organised the biggest protest among factory workers in support of the democratic movement led by students. Because I believed the individual could make a difference. You led her? Yes. Oh my goodness. Wow it's amazing. So that 1989 was a nationwide movement. So I actually substantially have written a memoir about my experience working at the missile factory. It's called Socialism is Great. It's nothing to do as well. It's not about socialism. It's about me. Socialism is great. It's just a popular revolutionary song we used to think. By the way I wrote to the book in English. And I think if I had written that book in Chinese I think the sex things would be less explicit. We'll talk about the relation with language a bit later. I think probably I'll overuse my time. You know what I knew this is going to happen. I had actually more questions for Leija but we need to pass the mic on. But you've got such an interesting background. I feel like when I've had this baby, when I get back into podcasting I definitely need you to come on my show and you can just talk more about it. Thank you so much Leija. Up next I have Alan Lau. Football fanatic. Founder and chair of Frank Sue Foundation. Frank Sue was the first person of Chinese heritage to play in the English football. There he is here. Such a handsome boy. Frank was raised in Liverpool to a Chinese father and English mother. Going back to Alan. Sorry also a handsome boy as well. Alan has been involved in grassroots football for over 10 years. Organising events for the EC community. And also my cousin Kevin, he's probably watching online. Hi Kevin. My cousin Kevin has met you before because he plays football. And I think he's played at one of your events or one of your tournaments as well. So I have to give you a shout out because I know he's probably watching. Alan, do you want to tell us more about yourself and how you founded Frank Sue Foundation? Can I just say one amazing story? How can I follow that up to be honest? Because that's really hard to follow up. Thank you. I don't have any period anecdotes. I'll tell you a little bit about myself. I was born just down the road from here actually. Are you a Londoner? I moved out to Watford when I was one. I grew up in Watford. Full disclosure, I'm a youngest child. So everything in the world is brilliant. Everyone is me and everything, I get my way. So we're going to talk about that a bit later. But yes, I grew up in Watford. I'm also a takeaway boy. I helped out with my parents cooking and sitting out on the counter and taking orders. So I think there's a lot of things we can talk about later too. I think as a reflection about your story, Ligia, is for when I was growing up, I did go to Chinese school, but I hated it. Don't tell my kids this. I really hated it. I was the one who sat at the back and was like, don't want to be here. I was doing that until I was about 13, 14. I was still in beginner's class. It was one of those things where I was like, I don't like this. I don't want to be here, but my mum still made me do it. In retrospect, that was really stupid. Because when I grew up, when I finished university, I went to China to study. I went to Beijing to study port-en-roix. So I was there for six months. I was just thinking, why am I wasting all this money going all the way to learn here when I could have learnt all this stuff as a kid. For me, when I was learning Chinese port-en-roix, it's because, similar to you, in the sort of a roundabout way, is that for me, I work for my family business now, and we import Chinese crafts. So I felt for me to take on the work that I was doing for my family, I had to go back and learn Chinese, I had to go back and learn port-en-roix. So in the sort of like, I needed to get my job, I needed this to pursue my careers and dreams and so it's quite interesting hearing from your point of view from how you went to learn English, and I'm learning Chinese and it's sort of crossed over. So yeah, that's really interesting. I think I am contractually obliged to tell you about Frank Sue. Go for it. So I've been working in the Chinese community, doing a lot of community work for the last 15 years. After I went to study Chinese when I came back, one of the reasons why I went to China and when I went to Hong Kong was, you know, you have that thing where you go to find yourself, you have that gap year, and then you go to see, you know, what does it mean? For someone who's grown up in England, I've always felt displaced, and I'm sure there's a lot of people in this room with a similar sort of story where it's like, who am I? Why am I here? Or when you're growing up there's like, oh, am I Chinese? Or am I English? Why don't my English friends like me or invite me to parties? And why don't all the English girls ask me out? Anyway. So it was one of those things where I went back. I actually lived in Hong Kong for a bit first and I took on the sort of expatty sort of lifestyle where most of my friends were all international friends and we used to go out at Lang Quai Fong drinking, all that kind of stuff. And that didn't feel right either. That was like, this is still not finding yourself. And I felt when I went to China, when I learnt the language, after I went to Beijing, I backpacked through China for three months, just on my own backpack, just going around, just talking to people. And I think from that, that's when I realised most people are just the same. I'll be on a bus and just chatting to a random guy because for him, people are like, what the hell is this guy doing? What's this all about? Because I look like you, but I sure don't dress like you or why have you got such a big bag? He had a big bag, he was going to mark it. But just starting his conversations and seeing actually, it didn't really matter who you were or where you were. Because when you keep on pulling at that thread, you probably never find that answer. And it took me that long to really figure it out. And I felt when I came back, when I started working more family business, I wanted to do stuff back for the community. And I did a lot of work with the youth club at the Chinese Community Centre. So it was sort of giving back and showing them, for a lot of young people, teenagers, it's tough. You've got hormones, and then it's even tougher when you've got this sort of who am I kind of thing. So I wanted to do something to help and say, it doesn't matter. Let's just find the things that you want to do, what you really like and just work on that. Because if you try and go down that route of finding who you are, you probably don't want to find it. For some people it does matter, and it does matter, but then it doesn't. So yeah, it's a weird thing. So anyway, that's frank scene. I was doing things in the community centre, and I created the football team for the London Chinese Community Centre. And I've been doing tournaments, leagues, mainly for the Chinese community, East Asia communities, and also mixing with all other communities. And I came across Frank's story in 2016. So this book, I'm going to plug my book too, is that right? This book is by Susan Gardner, so without Susan, none of this for me, I wouldn't be here, because I'll tell you a bit of Frank. Frank played football in the 1930s and 1940s. His mum was English, and his dad was Chinese. He played for Stoke. He captained Stoke alongside Sir Stanley Matthews. I'm not sure if... I'm trying to read the crowd. Is this a footballing crowd? Sir Stanley Matthews is probably that equivalent of David Beckham. He's like top. At that time, everyone knew him, big name. And he was his captain. Sir Frank was... Sir Frank was Sir Stanley Matthews. So he must have been good if he could be the person to... Of course. He also played for Leicester, he played for Luton, and the really, really mind-blowing thing for me is that he played for England. But because it was during the war, it wasn't an official cap. They were wartime caps. So he played for England nine times, and growing up, I'm a football fanatic. I love football. I wanted to recreate those times when I was at Alan Shearer or Michael Owen. Football people, you probably know how old I am if I'm quite in those people. What team do you support? I'm a Watford boy. I can tell you all about that later. There's a lot to talk about. So to know that someone from my background, from my heritage, played for England, because it's like... I mean, I wasn't good enough, but I could have. Anyone could, right? Anyone of, you know, someone from... Cos, you know, you've had the same thing. You know, your parents would tell you, be a accountant, be a lawyer, be a doctor, be all those meaningful jobs, of course. But... Stable. Yeah, very stable. Footballers are all right. You get a lot of money for that. Do you know what I mean? It was never a thing. You know, it was like, son, put the ball away, go and read your books. I think the one thing about Frank Sue is... Cos I'm not a football... I'm not massively into football. My partner watches quite a lot of football. Probably a bit too much, to be honest, but never mind him. Never too much. Anyway, we'll part that conversation. I'm really impressed with Frank Sue's background because I learned more about him through social media, through the Instagram page. But there's also a story about him downstairs at the British exhibition as well. Sorry, Chinese and British exhibition as well. So I think it's really good how you've basically uplifted a Chinese sportsman, a sportsman with Chinese heritage. So thank you so much. We will come back to you, but for now round of applause to Alan. I went to football just the other day for the first time. I did you? Oh, brilliant. Brilliant, that's music to my ears. This is going to turn into football chat now, isn't it? OK, next on the panel at the end, I've got Jamie Lau, British photographer of Chinese heritage, interested in exploring culture differences between his Chinese and English identity. Jamie has an exhibition behind this stage called Eight Stories, which is a collection, showcases a collection of Chinese and British people forging their own identity within the countryside. Jamie, do you want to tell us more about yourself and more about the exhibition as well? I know there's a picture of Mark Nam here, which we will talk about later, but for now we just want to talk about you. So if we're going to go back to roots, I'll just start from the beginning. So my dad's from Hong Kong, my mum's actually Thai, so I'm part half half. But I kind of consider myself whole English. The perspective for me is my parents split up quite early on in life and I always had my Chinese side in London. And my Thai and English stepfather in Bedfordshire. So everything for me was quite sort of disconnected in terms of Chinese heritage. And Chinese heritage for me, or the Chinese experience for me, was going to North London, going to Chinatown, having food. It was always around food. But then I'd dip back in and out, and that was pretty much it. So for me growing up in Bedfordshire as one of the only non-white people in the village, it was quite difficult to maintain this sense of here I am, am I Chinese, am I English, am I Thai. It was actually easy for me just to admit my Thai side because in some ways it was harder to explain to people that you have different backgrounds and different heritage and influences. So I did just say, I'm English. And I think for me that's quite interesting because I think a lot of people, possibly not even with the Chinese background, have these same battles, the same sense of identity, culture clashes. And for some reason it's easier, at least for me, to dumb it down and just sort of say, this is who I am. But sometimes it doesn't always fit with who you should be in your heart. You kind of get along and you kind of muddle through life and at the age of 44 now I'm sort of realising maybe I'm not Chinese enough. My brother, I don't know if this is a Thai thing, but my brother had more of an issue, I guess, moving into the village as a slightly older teenager. And I don't know if it was his English friends or his Chinese friends, but he was referred to as a banana, is that a thing? So yellow on the outside, but white on the inside. And I don't know how he took that. I'm not sure if he took offence to it, but it was just as it was. But yeah, it was interesting. I think the only other person of colour in my school at the time was an Indian girl. And some of my friends, they are my friends now, but some of my acquaintances so it was kind of confusing or confusing for them anyway. But yeah, so I'm kind of interested in digging down to these big kind of cultural, possibly misunderstandings between English and between Chinese and in a way I am from a sort of a unique kind of environment, although I know other people from my project have kind of similar sort of backgrounds. And I was just interested in basically researching, first of all, who can I find who has a Chinese heritage and has some sort of background within the countryside or identifies as being both based within rural areas or kind of has that as part of their identity and being Chinese and how does it sort of overlap. And Mark Naam was one of the people that I found. I'll come on to him in a second, but I think for me just the way of dealing with this sort of multi-dimensional kind of identity was to kind of not really bury my head in the sand but just sort of to get along with it and not really be sort of visible and be as sort of vocal in my own way but not sort of shout I'm Chinese. Obviously there's racism there. I'm not going to make a big thing of it because I think that's just a part and parcel of who we are and what we need to deal with. I know for a fact Mark who's behind me is very vocal and I think he campaigns for sort of stop Asian hate and is very kind of like in the community and tries to sort of be a part of the community that he's in. He's just a little bit of background behind him. He's the first English vicar that's been ordained into the Church of England. So he's very much kind of like, he hasn't hit a wall but he's in this sort of engineering sort of stage where he's the first person of our heritage to be in that sort of situation. And I think, I'm not sure if it is, but I think he has probably come across possibly more to protest against possibly because he is sort of breaking through and doing what he does and advocating for to stop sort of Asian hate. Whereas I'm sort of like below the radar a little bit. I have sort of blinkers a little bit when people say stuff it just sort of goes over my head and I kind of keep my head down. So it's a different dynamic. But for my series Eight Stories I was interested in finding basically people who, I knew for a fact that there was no sort of generic story that you could say this is what someone who lives in the countryside and is Chinese, this is what they do because there's no such thing. And actually I found it quite hard to to sort of manoeuvre through that process. But everyone in the project has some sort of relevance to my own story in terms of where I'm from and the things that I've done in my life. So just to also explain the title Eight Stories, there's seven portraits, physical portraits, but I'm the eighth story. The idea behind it is that the actual physical stories, the written text, the actual verbal stories that I want to kind of get over this evening and on the text on the walls is just as important. I didn't want my project to be just about the visual. Even though it's very important to kind of place Chinese faces within the countryside to some people that's quite a jarring kind of image. That's on one level, but more importantly I wanted to dig down and really sort of investigate everyone's experiences just to show that there's a breadth and there's no homogenous kind of one way to tell. Just also just to sort of round that off. I think it's, I think if you were to summarise who the people are that I'm interested in, it's the fact that Chinese communities are obviously quite dense in bigger cities, London, Liverpool, Manchester. There's not really much of that in the sleepy villages in the home counties. I just wanted to sort of give people a bit of exposure, a bit of a voice and just to sort of explore what that means, but we can talk about that a bit more. It's quite interesting because I can relate to some of the stories in your eight stories, so growing up in Maccosfield. I think we spoke about it in the part one conversation where Amy was born and bred in London, so her experiences was different to maybe like mine and Angela's. He's also part of eight stories as well because we grew up in a rural town. I completely agree with you, we were the only Chinese family I felt in Maccosfield and it's not like, it wasn't like a tiny town, it was quite big, but we were the only people that looked like girls. I think there was a few, a couple of Chinese takeaways. I think my dad tried to say hi to them, but I think they were just like, oh, you know, you're a competitor. But the kids went to different schools, so we were like the only Chinese kids in that school. So I think it's really interesting what you've done and I felt like, and you're completely right because each portrait that you focused on, they each had like a different story. So yeah, it's really good. I just want to follow up what Jamie is saying about who we're talking about, the personal identity. I like to think I'm Chinese writer, even though I write English. A few years ago I went to a literature festival in Hong Kong and I was introduced as a British writer and I immediately protested. I said, oh, I'm Chinese. Even though I hold British passport, I don't think one's identity is defined by the passport. Anyway, I think my sensibility is more Chinese than British. But then again, I think the culture identity is really, it's a very fluid thing. I don't think I'm typical Chinese. I don't think I'm typical British. I think the culture feels like a sea we are swimming in. You're not always conscious the way which sea we are swimming in. I think your personal identity is also very fluid. I remember the Palestinian poet, Mohammed Wawish, he wrote a poem to pay tribute to Edward Said. He said, I have two languages, but I have long forgotten in which languages I'm dreaming. Go back to eight stories. If anyone wants to go and visit the eight stories, it's actually behind here. Is there anything else that you want to add at all? I think it will come on to it in the language part of this conversation. Thank you, Jamie. Now I want to focus on the Chinese and British exhibition that's downstairs. It's on until the 23rd of April. For anyone watching online, thank you for tuning in. I think there's a section at the bottom of the video where you can ask questions. We're going to have some Q&As at the end of this as well. Anyone in the audience here and anyone online, you can feel free to ask anyone of us a question. Just going back to the Chinese and British exhibition, I think it's absolutely amazing. I know we've said it a billion times already, but I think it's so amazing that there's actually an exhibition just about our community. Is there anything from the exhibition that's really stuck out to any of you? I'm just absolutely delighted there's such an exhibition. I think the UK has the oldest Chinese community in the whole Europe. I don't know, I think probably just slightly under 1% of the population are Chinese, but you don't hear the voices so often. The political presentation is very limited. I think probably Chinese and many Asians tend to live their life quietly. I think it's great that this exhibition recognises the Chinese community and recognises the contribution. I know wonderful people like my friend Mi Ling, who is the first Chinese Labour councillor, and they've done great things. My daughter, she wrote her dissertation on the Chinese community in Britain. I'm just delighted there's such an exhibition at all. What about you? I'm getting contractually obliged to talk about France. No, I think it's amazing to have this platform because there hasn't been anything like this before. I checked this morning, it's 0.7%. No, that's the last sensor. It's the same, it's not changed. Is it 0.7% of the UK population are Chinese? I thought it was a 2011 figure. Recently, when they released a new one a few months ago, the new figures, the Chinese... How about those people not registered? The other thing about that... How about students? It's just as Chinese, but it doesn't have things like Malaysian or Vietnamese or all others. It's very hard to judge what our community is. Roughly about 1%. I think that's been quoted often, about 1%. The other thing is, as you rightly saying, that it's one of the longest, the oldest one in Europe, and there is a lot of history there. There is a lot of... I'm second generation, but there are some people who, especially in the Liverpool area, who are third, fourth, fifth generation, who have been there for a long, long time, and many of these stories that hasn't been told. Of course, Frank Sue's story hasn't been told. I know what you're saying now, because I think a lot of the Chinese people that migrated to the UK, I think a lot of them came to Liverpool first. My mum and dad both came... Actually, both my grandparents came to... I think they arrived in Liverpool first. I think it was the major stopping point before America, so a lot of people thought they were going to America, and then they just ended up in Liverpool. Oh, really? That's one of the things. There are, as I said, so many stories, sad stories, like, for example, the... The Seafarers. I know, I was going to talk about that. But then also, positive stories about Frank Sue, and about, like you said, that there are other positive people out there that I didn't know existed, and for someone growing up, doing all this stuff in the community, it's like, wow, that's really important. That's really good to have someone that we can pull on, that we can say that, yeah, we're like them. This is something that resonates with us. In the 1930s to the 1950s, a group of Chinese artists, writers, lived in Hamster's Heath, and one of them, and Jiang Yi, wrote a serious book called Silent Travellers. Oh, really? Many of them couldn't communicate, didn't speak English. But they did wonderful things. By that time, the Chinese January had quite a negative connotation after books like Dr Fu Manchu, this evil guy, clever evil guy, exotic guy. But as though they introduced Chinese culture and also, you know, they tried to kind of really present a more positive image of Chinese people. It's interesting you say that too, because I feel from a Chinese background, the Chinese heritage, we want to stay under the radar. And that's one of the things that's why it's pushed everyone around. We spread out, not congregating, not sticking our heads out. We have this in London, and then having the other ones that are around the country too, I hope it brings us all together, and it brings us all to really, you know, just talk about, having these conversations, talk about what we've done, what we've achieved, and how we can do even better things in the future. I think it's interesting, this is the most simple kind of observation, but when I walked into the show and just saw the title, Chinese and British, I thought, well, that's obvious, right? But then actually it's kind of, it's not out there. It's not kind of like blazoned to say, this is a group of people who have this identity. And I kind of thought, actually the title is so simple, because it just says what it is, and in a way I kind of, I got kind of emotional when I walked through for the first time, because I didn't think I needed it, but I do need it. It sort of massages your soul a little bit to know that we're on that kind of platform, which is a beautiful thing. Yeah, I think for me what really stuck out was, well, the one thing that kind of touches her in the most is the model of the Chinese taekwai, because obviously with my Chinese taekwai background, but there's so much more that I learned, like the seafarers, like the men that had moved to the UK and then got married to women, and then they got tricked and then they got deported back to back to Hong Kong, and they never got the chance to say goodbye to their wives or their families, and that really upset me, but then there's other things that I've learned, like I think there's a video downstairs that talks, that is filmed in a Chinese restaurant, but it focuses on the girl that's mixed-race, and this is something which I really want to learn, because obviously I have a four-year-old who's mixed-race, I have another one on the way as well, so it's just something that I really want to learn more about, so for me it's quite fascinating just to learn more about that. And then there's the other thing, because I'm a really big tennis fan, the Emiradacanu, like I just want my daughter to play tennis so badly, Emiradacanu, and I'm having another girl as well, so I'm hoping that they'll be like the next William Sisters or something, for anyway, that's just me. But yes, the exhibition is on until 23rd of April. The exhibition is also available in other cities as well, which I've actually just discovered. I think there's the Chinese and British exhibition in Aberdeen, my nephew's there, I think he's watching, hi Chong Chong, and there's one in Edinburgh Library as well, there's one in Manchester Dirt, so there's quite a few. So if any of you don't live in London, it's not just here, it's in different cities as well. Okay, for the next bit, I need to take my jacket off for this one, because I feel that this is going to be like therapy. So I want to talk about languages, thank you. This is going to be like therapy, so I need to take everything off, okay. So I want to talk about languages because I think each one of us, we all have a story, our own personal journey, or had a personal journey about languages, whether it's being born in China and learning English for better opportunity, being forced to go to Chinese school when we absolutely hated it, I did anyway, I agree with you there, or maybe Jamie, you know, you grew up in your mother's tie and your father's Chinese, so I'm just going to make the assumption that you spoke English at home. Can we just talk about this, because I think this is something that's really important, particularly for people with dual nationalities that are bilingual and multilingual. Do you want to go first? Yeah, earlier I talked about how I found it really fascinating how the language shapes our language, or even personality. I made a, quite a few years ago, I made an important decision in writing in writing English. I only started to teach myself English when I was 22 and a half, probably in some ways my English would be never perfect. But anyway, I write, I make a living now from writing and I write English. The reason for that was that it freed me politically. I arrived in England in 1990 and one year later I was asked by a Chinese publisher to write a book about the western image of a 10mm, which I found very interesting. In English or in Chinese? In Chinese. Yeah, for the Chinese, for 1993 was 10mm 100 years anniversary. But anyway, so I wrote a book to spend many hours that's bought in a library at Oxford and I interviewed many people from different works of life when I finished the book. But in China it goes through the censorship. The book didn't pass the censorship. It didn't pass the censorship. Because some people described 10mm as butcher, for example. That was just not possible. So ever since then I made a decision I'm going to write in English. So I don't have to, I'd all be free from censorship. And also I found it really interesting that I found a sense of freedom in writing in a language. It's not my mother tongue. Because it's not my mother tongue I can afford to have an adventure and I could experiment using different verbs, using different sentence structure and I borrowed Chinese saying that Chinese is such a wonderful language. So yeah, so Did you did you self-taught yourself because I think you said earlier in your introduction that you borrowed some tapes. Did you have anyone teaching or was this all done? No, I yes I followed the radio program later on I signed up an English course called Teach Yourself University it's kind of an equivalent of an open university you sign up course so I signed up a course to study English so I can study it systematically. But I think it's also quite interesting that when you speak a different language you can bring up different personality when I speak Chinese I realise I speak quite fast very loudly when I speak English I try to pretend on bit more couchers because I was always very conscious that I tried to imitate the proper BBC English because I was always very conscious I wasn't very couch, I didn't get a great education just last month I run a book group we had a book discussion and we were having dinner at a Chinese restaurant and it was very loud, people talking very loudly I kind of instantly switched to that Chinese mode so towards the end I just got up and shouted at the waiter I said Shrekor! Give me a box! I was just like a Shrekor I was just kind of a handsome boy I needed a box for takeaway but I just cannot imagine I would shout like this in a in a normal or British restaurant or let alone French restaurant where you cannot even say grab but you can engage the waiter with your eyes you can never, in China we just say where is our food? Actually in Cantonese it's like that as well you would never go into like like a British restaurant oh pretty handsome boy mainly Was it quite common when you were in China for other people to learn English was it quite popular or was it common for them to also learn English because they wanted an opportunity or was it just you or was it just not very not as common I think in the 80s before we were talking about during the cultural revolution learning English language we were getting into trouble even landed in prison so in the 80s China opened up and economic reform started so people China needs talent lots of people starting to learn the language I guess I didn't do too badly because I got sick skiing I'm willing to always willing to talk I spoke so loudly as if the shield volume could compensate the lack of fluency anyway so I think that's the way to learn you just have to open your mouth and talk I feel like we've come from totally different perspectives because I grew up being forced to speak Cantonese to my parents but I really really hate to speak in Cantonese and I hated when he speaks but Cantonese to me and from my friends I was like oh my god they had called me Puyu which is my Chinese name and I was like stop calling me Puyu my name is Georgie I was just so embarrassed that my friends would laugh at me but now obviously it's all very different did you have the same as well when you were growing up? I think for me I didn't like Chinese school mainly because I just didn't like learning did you not like it? you used to go on a Sunday was it like torture because you'd go to school on Monday to Friday the worst thing is because I didn't bother I'll get put back in class so by the time I was like 12, 13 I was with water like 6 year olds and that made me worse but then but then that doesn't mean that I didn't I speak Cantonese generally quite fluently I speak Hakka because my family are Hakka you speak Hakka as well? and then I learnt Pulton Hoa but I don't think I'm a linguist if you asked me when I went when I went to to Italy recently on the holiday it was only at the end when my wife told me you've been saying like Grazie and it's like Spanish oh crap I've been saying that all week but I feel that because so I feel that I've I do connect with my Chinese side and I feel that all those three languages I don't really feel that it's not that hard to interchange a free once you've figured out actually if you swap this word for this word they're actually quite similar and like the grammar's all the same I think a difference to how you learnt when I was in Beijing I probably didn't learn that much in the classroom is mainly like you'll be surprised how much you learn when you're in a taxi or when you're having a massage because you're there for an hour you've got to chat to someone so those are places where you actually learn how to communicate it's not just language it's not the mechanics and then like flipping it around so I've got kids and we we tried well we try to talk Hakka to them and they're at my parents a lot so they speak Hakka to them so when we had the first one it was a bit easier because you only got one so I'm not trying to scare you when you have the second one when you have the second one in the window and you just need to do what you have to do again, I'm not trying to scare you so by that time I'm talking more English to them and they're more comfortable talking English so I feel the younger one he'll say something to him in Chinese and then he'll go oh what's that in normal and then a little bit of me dies a little bit of me dies inside but that's fine hopefully you'll grow out of it but then it's I think the old is hard for us to try and give our kids this thing but it is important it really is important I try as hard as I can and I hope the rest of the family will get together and try as hard as we can because even though communication and language is all part of where culture and where you come from because it all stems from the same sort of place you talk about something and that's how you see something that's how you manifest ideas so we try our best as I say it's really really difficult it's quite funny because when I was growing up when I see my contemporaries who were Chinese but couldn't speak Chinese you must be really lazy but now I'm thinking now actually there's more to it there's more to it than did you feel because I know you went to Hong Kong quite recently do you feel confidence going speaking Cantonese in Hong Kong because I'm confident but I get it all wrong I think there's one time we went to a a Dai Pa Dong it's that outdoor kind of restaurant and then the auntie was speaking Cantonese to me really loud and I was trying my hardest to keep up but I didn't want to ask her to like and I asked her to slow down and she did but she was really just really stropping and at the end I was like yeah yeah that's right but then the food came out and I was wrong and I was like oh no but I feel now that I'm confident in my not confident like I'm able just to like go with it and I know it's not perfect and you want to get service speak English all right go into the bank you call them up whatever and press one for for a while press two for Cantonese press three for English if you press two or one wait don't matter but if you talk with English it's different it's one of those things is it right, is it wrong no it's wrong but then I think a lot of them a lot when I was in Hong Kong I think they get it more now too oh actually no they're foreign I had plenty of friends who were like Korean or Japanese who didn't speak any Cantonese so you know don't take it personally because there are Hong Kong's a very interesting city so you know there is you don't have to just get away going back to your original question I feel quite confident speaking in Cantonese because I do it for my worth and stuff so I think but I would like to give that to my kids too and even if they didn't at least try at least give it a go because it doesn't cost anything to try how about you Jamie well I can't speak Chinese and it's a problem because I don't think I can really connect as well as at all really with my family that's a big thing in Hong Kong I usually have to go through someone in my family who can speak English to translate of course there's like the friendly auntie who just talks at me and even though she knows I can't speak Chinese she just talks anyway but at the same time it makes me feel included it's like fine you're talking to me this is great inevitably we communicate with food as you do my little half sisters went to Chinese school Sunday every Sunday they can speak Cantonese and going to Hong Kong they translate for me which is kind of a bit strange but it happens but then I think I think for me I have this sort of comfort in just not actually understanding what people are saying to me I think for some people it might be a bit disconcerting being in a room and people are talking and you don't understand what they're saying but I've normalised it I kind of try and read what they're looking at and just take it and strip it back to base level try and communicate in any way you can I can remember from an early age being in a situation where we've been singing in church and I'll try and sing but I just make it up to feel as though I'm singing in Chinese just to feel as though I'm part of the experience but it doesn't matter that I can't say felly rydyn ni yn ei ddweud o'r cyfrifio, ydych yn gwybod nhw'n gwybod yw'r cyfrifio'r gweithredu? Ond yn ni'n gwybod nhw'n gwybod nhw a'r gwybod nhw a'r gwybod nhw a'r gwybod nhw'n gwybod nhw'n gwybod nhw a'r gwybod nhw a'r gwybod nhw yw'n gwybod nhw yw'n gyfer o'r Chynes Codau a'r Ffrens Codau Centanig â'r cyfrifio yna, dwi'n gwybod nhw. Fy oeddennill, y gallwn ein hiad maiant. Mae'n an paragraphad ddim segu Fy oeddo meddwl. Fy oeddennill ja'n gobyn unig. mae'n ad oldestu. Ymgrifi Mushroom ar gael eu bod fi i chihaeth, mae hynuflau'n amli�n. Fosieth yr amli мас a gallan môl hwn. Fy oeddennill, allan maeeth ydy hwnnw i ddim yn y typd mewn gwir i'r holl pa ni yn ystod yn fan i eu hollwch. Rhyw ni'n meddwl arall a byddoch chi ddim yn mynd i'r hunfffio a blynyddoch chi yn gallu gblwyfiolaeth. Roedd een i gweld i'r ffêr hyffreifydd, ac roedd yn Soo Gwanaeth ac nid i'r hollwch yn fawr yn rhaid i'r hyn. Mae'n mynd i'n meddwl ei wneud i dda chi i'r hollwch daddy oherwydd eiarnau hynny oherwydd maen nhw'n mynd i'n meddwl i'r hollwch. ..on reinforce our life will always to enrich the various degrees between two cultures. I almost feel sorry for people who don't have it because it's like... I don't know why, how good it is to be able to see more than one side of the story, right, because that's what it's all about right? You probably have a better understanding of many people just thinking, you know, o'r granni o'r qum er mlu sy'n metallau. Be'r cwrwp eich sefydlu cymdeithasol o'r bawb yn gwneud. Dwi'n llwnio'n gwneudio. Felly, dyna'n meddwl i siwgogaeth y rhai cyd-lwyr bod yw'r rhaid beth sy'n rydych chi'n gwneud. Mae'r Abol yn mynd i'r ddylai, ddiwch, mae'r modd i'r boel nhw rhaid sy'n cerdol. cyfeirio, they've had to say, don't worry she's not angry, that's just her talking normally to clients. Wadaadore, a maybe to the audience as well what are your thoughts on the language of food, like how it's presented to you, we have to talk about this, you know how like my parents. We spoke about this in the last panel as well, my parents don't say the love word However, her offer you something, but they show me love through food. Absolutely that is such a big thing. I have something I want to say. Yes, absolutely my grandmother will never say I love you and sing so. Or they will never say sorry neither. I don't say thank you. Don't say sorry or I will say I love you. Cook food, cook food. That's language expressed by food. ..a'r ystyried i'r llog. Efallai mynd i'n gwneud cael ei wneud yn ei wneud. Felly, yna cynnig o'r ff BCE. Mae'r husiwch. Roedd gweithio'r cwestiynau. Oedd genlun yw'r husiwch yn gwyloeth yma o'u ddiogelio ac roedd gen i'n gwneud... ..y'n gweithio'r hynny yw'r ddiogelio'n gweithio... ..y dyma'r cyfforderau nhw i ddim yn y ddefnydd yma... ..y maen nhw'n gweithio'r ddiogelio. Maxine Hong Kingston, Amy Tan, Lisa C, what books did you have by Chinese British writers to help you out growing up? Also just a small reminder for people tuning in online, you can feel free to add a question. I think there's a question box below the video, I think, I've been told. Yes, anyway, do you want to give it to you? Maxine Hong Kingston, she's amazing. I really loved her book called Women Warrior. It's kind of a family story, but not using her imagination, so it is great. And I honestly believe she paved the way for the success of Amy Tan. Oh, really? Absolutely, because when she, Maxine Hong Kingston published a book in the 50s, which did a reasonably well, but at that time, the publisher was thinking, well, a memoir for Chinese women, but anyway, so I think her book is just magical and paved the way for the success of Amy Tan. Do we have any Chinese British writers that helps out growing up? I think for me, I didn't really grow up reading lots of books, and when I did grow up, when I was a kid, there was no books out there that had characters that looked like us. There's all these Roald Dahl books, How to Kill a Mockingbird, but there was nothing, it's only now because I've got a little girl that I'm starting to get more books to read to her, like Maisie Chan and Joanna Ho, because the books that they've written, the characters are based on EC characters, so they're the kind of books that I read to my daughter. I don't know if you guys have anything in it. I'm going to also show how unscolarly I am in the biggest library in the country. For one book? Yeah, for one book, yeah. I think it's because there wasn't any. In my eyes, there wasn't, I read comic books, I like reading like Marvel comics on it, and there was limited, there was some, but then nothing really resonated with me. There was nothing there to really grab hold of, and which I think now is brilliant that there are people out there doing it, how we can show our kids, you know, this books, how to get them to fall in love with books, how to, you know, so no, I just think it's wonderful now that there is this new wave of people doing this, and not just in books, not just in that, but more just in general, because as we were saying, how it's so important having this here today, I feel we are, this is a wave that we're all riding, yeah, no, that's it. So, yeah, I'm not sure what else. I mean, as a kid, I think you said it, I'm not the best Shakespeare, all these things, I just didn't really know of any sort of childy things. I did pick up Wild Swans and tried to read it, but that wasn't really my kind of book, and so just as a kid, I just wasn't really exposed to anything along those lines, so sadly no. I've read Wild Swans, that's a really good book. Yeah, one of the most successful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think they've done a play about Wild Swans haven't they? I think Katie Leung, I think she was one of, she's one of the characters, I think, I think it's quite a while ago. Anyway, side-tracking now. Next question is from Mayan, from BC and Haim Mayan. She's put, I love what Lija said about having different personalities in different languages. I think Asian diaspora often have these multiple personalities and we can code switch intellectually. Do any of you feel like these multiple personalities are a positive influence or even a superpower and if so, how? That's quite a hard question. I love what Lija said about having different personalities in different languages. I think Asian diaspora often have these multiple personalities and we can code switch inter-culturally. Do any of you feel like these multiple personalities are a positive influence or even a superpower and if so, how? Who wants to answer? What the hell? Mayan. That's quite heavy, though. It's heavy, isn't it? Is this when you go and go silent? I guess I know where you're coming from, because we were saying how different languages and we're coming from different cultures and we could flip from each thing. But on my part, I feel like the work that I'm doing with Frank C Foundation and the stuff that I'm doing from the community work, I try and be genuine and then let that be the message. And the flipping is just the way you present it. So, I don't know, I mean... I mean, you're you. It's like you've still got your own agenda. You're one person. You might be able to see different sides linguistically or approach people in different ways, speaking English or Chinese, depending on the best result needed. But you're still one person. I'm not sure if I can... I don't know if it is flipping in that you're able to flip personality. You are one person anyway, but it's just how you get there is different. Jebonyn, can you add? I... Well, I think that Chinese, for example, compared to Chinese with British people, Chinese people tend to be more straightforward. Yeah. Yeah, and I... When I first arrived in England, my ex-athlete was studying at Oxford and I realised that, you know, I realised I didn't know how to argue, at least not in the way I often kind of said, no, you're wrong, you know. Only later I realised they would say, yes, I know, appreciate your point, and you know, but in my view, this is this. And yeah, it's all... Yeah, I think it's been really interesting like my ex-mother-in-law or somebody I really adored. I mean, she... She, in some many ways, she was very British and very polite, and probably, you know, if I even... She was always very polite and very... Being for her, being charming, you know, this is more important than being truthful. If I... Probably if I gave her a toilet paper, she would say, oh, how absolutely delightful, you know. I think for me, it's... I need to think about it more, Mayan, but I think for me, one of the... Because, like, I think when some Chinese people look at me, they probably assume that I don't speak Chinese. And I know this because I hear them talking about me in Hong Kong when I was sat on the tube. So I think my superpower to this, to this question is that I know what they're saying about me. And I think also, when we went to Hong Kong, my partner Ewing came with us and we had our four-year-old as well. It's the first time she's been to Hong Kong. Our daughter's mixed race, and she had blonde hair, dark blonde hair, but she has Asian features. And honestly, everyone was talking about her in Cantonese, as if I didn't understand. And I was like, I know what you're talking about. I'm just like, I'm actually looking at them. I'm like, do you know that I understand, or are you just saying it anyway? Because I think in Hong Kong, there's maybe like little diversity, especially in Kowloon where we were. So she was just this, I don't know, she was just like this child with blonde hair, but then they look at me, they look at you, and they're like, oh, wow, wow, look at this, look at this. So anyway, I think that's really... You feel that's something that flip it around, people here might think that, I don't say it in Western culture. But Chinese certainly... Well, you know, Chinese still think that Chinese people do tend to kind of making comments about people's appearance, kind of really bluntly. Yeah, they do. You're fat. Look at that fat child there. OK, so those are the questions, those are the online questions. Does anyone have any questions in the audience? Yes, I think... Is there a microphone as well? The lady... Oh, yeah, welcome back to you. Hi, I am also second generation, was also the child who really hated being in Chinese school as a kid. And now I also have a young child. And so I'm wondering if you have any tips to sending young children to Chinese school, how you can you get them to actually enjoy the process. Are you looking at me? You know what? I'm not at that stage yet. I did let slip... The kids go to Chinese school now. Yeah, well, the older one did. I did let slip to them that I didn't like it as much. Did you tell them? It came off like this. Here's the thing, here's the thing. But you're different because you're smarter than Daddy. Loves it. You had to be sugar coated. Yeah, of course, because they kids, right? That's how you... Yeah, that's... I mean, it's... Obviously, as a parent, you want to encourage, but you can't really push. So, I mean, let me just tell you a bit about when I'm about to say Hong Kong. So, during COVID, I was showing the kids, like, oh, this is what Hong Kong looks like. This is what these are videos about. And then I think you should slowly build into their mind. I mean, we're parents. We get first dibs on this, right? We should be the ones who should be nurturing them. So, you know, I've made an effort to show them, oh, this is what it looks like, and then we'll talk about it. We'll read those books that we were talking about earlier. And then when I went there, I was so pleased that they got it and you expose them to things. And they're like, OK, let's go and have gay dand-a. Let's go and eat this. Let's go and try this. Let's go and... And I think that's how I feel as a parent. That's what I'm doing to really encourage it. Cos, you know, I'm not going to make them do what my parents did to me, because it's a waste of money for one. And then secondly, you know, what if they didn't go back like I did? What if they've just cut it out and they hate it? So, I feel it's just, you know, try as much as you can to encourage all the things around it, and then hopefully they will go, so... No. What if they don't like it? Would you stop them from going or would you just push them? I mean, I haven't got to that point yet, so maybe you'll ask me later, I'll maybe change my mind. But I mean, it's just... I think each one is a different situation to you, really. You know, actually I'm teaching Chinese in the Chinese community in Hastings, south of London. And I'm also teaching English online to Chinese students. And I've been teaching English, Chinese also in America. I had experiences. And so I find, you know, there's a theory about 1,000 hours. So if you emerge in a language for 1,000 hours, then you will be quite fluent. So say, if a kid goes to a Chinese school on weekends, only one hour or two hours, then it will be 100 hours a year, because there are 52 weeks a whole year. So if you do the math, it's going to take 10 years for them to finish that 1,000 hours. So actually, apart from that two hours in school on weekends, if a kid can... Sorry, I'm going... ...can study at home for an hour every day, so that will shorten the whole process to three years. So one hour a day, roughly 300 hours a year. So three years will be 1,000 hours. So what can they study for this one hour at home? Right now we can use a very good tool. It's...there are many good apps in China, you know, more than several, so far I know. There's one called Wukong Shi Zi. Wukong, you know, we know so-called monkey king in the journey to the west in that story. Yeah, it is amazing app, and you can download onto your iPad and your phone. The three-year course is only 30 pounds, roughly, 30 pounds. Then you can just use... And it's very interactive. My daughter has started. About a year ago she started, and now she's learned more than 100 characters. Oh, really? Yes, only many by herself. And I tried very... Because she's also mixed race at home. I tried to speak Chinese to her, but in the past six years, only myself, you know, that's very...not enough. Because, you know, mixed race, they play with other kids, speaking English at school, English at home, when I spoke to my husband, we speak English. Yeah, so not enough. But in the past month, she played with that app, and she started to understand Wukong and Shi Fu. And she asked me why she cried two days ago because Shi Fu drove away Wukong because Wukong killed that ghost woman. Yeah, the evil woman disguised as a beautiful, kind woman. But Wukong has Huo Yan Jing Jing, like shiny eyes, sharp eyes. He can tell, oh, that's a ghost. So he killed the ghost, and then Shi Fu got very angry, so drove him away. So my daughter cried for two days. Yeah, he wouldn't go on. I said, oh, it's all right. And then later she asked me, why didn't Wukong stay in Huaguo Shan, the mountain, flower and fruit mountain to enjoy his freedom, happy life with other monkeys? Why does he want to follow Shi Fu? I said, oh, that's a very good and deep question. So I said, Shi Fu. Monkey Q wanted the old venture. Yeah, I said Shi Fu saved him, so he's returning the goodness. Yeah, but anyway, I think it's a good way of learning Chinese. So you need, if you have this, create this environment for the kids, and using the modern app. Yeah, there's so many. It's called Wukong Shi Zi. Wukong is the name of the monkey king. Wukong Shi Zi means to learn to recognize the character. Wukong W-U-K-O-N-G. Shi is S-H-I. Zi is Z-I, Wukong Shi Zi. Yeah, that's the Chinese four characters, with HD, I think, in the end. Oh, yeah. S-T, you go right that down? Sorry? Sorry, I was asking my daughter to write that down. Thank you, everyone. I think the lady in the white jacket is here. Oh, sorry, sorry, after. Oh, sorry, Angela first. Angela, you go first in the middle. Sorry, we'll do it with you after. Okay, hi. So you're all very respected in your own fields, and you're all parents. I don't know if you're a parent as well. But I would love to know what one piece of advice you would give to your kids or the next generation of Asian diaspora or kids coming in from China or Hong Kong. Like, what one advice would you give them? Only one. Only one. I think for me, definitely speak up about anything, doesn't have to be about race. Just like speak up because I think, for me, I just didn't grow up in that environment. I was just like, keep your heads down. And even when I used to come home crying because some kid at school called me the C-word, my mum and dad are like, oh, they're in the wrong. Just keep your heads down. And then that's how I just got on with life. And then like 40 years later, I now have that massive childhood trauma. But I just feel like if that happened to my child, I'd want her to like to speak up. But not speaking up just on her, but if she sees anything happening with her group of friends, I'd want her to like call things out. And I think that's a journey which I'm trying to do as well. I find it, because I talk about it in my podcast, it's quite easy to talk about it. But when it comes to practice, I don't, sometimes I freeze when I see something wrong, but that's that part of my journey just because it's quite a new thing for me. So yeah, I definitely want Sadie and whichever, whatever her name will be, to like speak up on things. I think that the older generation of Chinese, for them it's very important just to be reassured, to kind of keep your heads down, do your things. If something happened, just put up with it, just forget about it. For example, one of the reasons in one of my friend, Chinese, and she was marked, she was robbed in Paris. I mean, in Paris lots of the criminal gown tagging Chinese because they tend to be quite rich. And also when something happens, they don't follow up, they just drop it. That all just, yeah, so just, I think of the, I do think that the younger gen, the new generation of the Chinese in UK will be probably more assertive. I mean, can I just take this opportunity to talk about racism? You all know during the pandemic there has been lots of Chinese Asians and Chinese being attacked. I think that's again, if it happened to other race, probably people more likely to protest or make a fuss because of the Chinese community and many people just, I don't know enough, I don't think enough has been done. Having said that, there will be a protest this Saturday, so you can Google it and find online. Yes, but I think that the pandemic definitely unleashed the fear, the cost, the return of the fear of the yellow peril. I don't know, I wrote a piece about, opinion piece about this. I think that in many ways this fear of the yellow peril has never gone away because pandemic could just unleash that. And also, I don't know how many people realise the colonial connotation of the term yellow peril. In the end of the 19th century, the German emperor, Kaiser Wilhelm, he had a dream, he dreamed the Buddha riding a dragon threatening to invade Europe. So he felt that the so-called civilized world, meaning Anglo-Saxon empires, will be overwhelmed, will be overruled by yellow-skinned Asian, mostly Chinese and Japanese. So that was one of the reasons drove him to conquer China and colonise China. Just due to timing, I think we've really got time for one more question, if that's okay. Okay, thank you. First of all, I really want to say my respect and how much I like Lydia John because I think your story is very... Yeah, you have a very adventurous and amazing life journey from a VISA factory to a journalist and a writer tonight, I think. Your life is very inspiring for all the girls of the world, really. And I'm really interested in your journey, your story. I was very looking forward to Georgia's podcast. You have to have an interview with Lydia. I will follow in that. And my question is like you were born, I think you were born in the 60s or 70s. I was born in 1964. Yeah, so I think that is a very special time in China. And it's not very easy for people in that era to go overseas. I think I want to know what drove you to learn English and to protest to go out to see the world. And have you ever met any difficulty things in this journey? Yeah, and another question is for about the culture identity. Like I feel that many people like for British born, Chinese are very struggling with identity recognition. But actually from my experience, I was born and raised in mainland China. Every time I see people like you, I can barely relate to people in mainland China because I feel you are more like Western people, British people. So I think why are you struggling with this kind of cultural identity recognition? You can learn Chinese. You can learn Spanish. You can learn French. You just learn language. Just take it to a scale. You don't have to be a Chinese to learn Chinese. I think so. What's the reason behind this? Is that because of your parents? Your grandparents are too nostalgic. They want to force you to have this kind of cultural identity. So have you ever think about the reason behind this? It has been a very long, slow journey to get where now. I tried this and tried that. For example, when I was in the factory, I tried to take exams to try to become an interpreter. Even I did very well. I didn't have a connection. So I have lots of setbacks. And if you want to be more than happy to share that with you afterwards. And the second question. And a second question. I think you're talking about the... For me, there's not particularly a struggle. And I feel lucky that I have my life have been enriched by English language and the English culture. I think we can probably just quickly talk about the bi-cultural identity because we really got a feel of literally less than a minute left. I think for me, I've never really embraced my Chinese culture, my Chinese identity until I started my podcast. And it's ridiculous. I think it's only actually maybe when I became a mum because I really wanted my daughter Sadie to learn more about her Chinese heritage. And I think that's basically my journey of trying to embrace it more. I think definitely when I was growing up, I did not want to be Chinese at all. I did not want to be Chinese at all. I just wanted to be a white person, basically. So thank you so much to everyone for joining us. Thank you so much to everyone joining us online as well. We've come to the end of the show. I also wanted to thank British Library for hosting the Chinese and British exhibition. I think this is amazing and it's on until the 23rd of April. So if you haven't seen it, then definitely check it out. Thank you to the panellists, Leija, Alan and Jamie. Thank you, Georgie. Oh, thank you. Thanks for inviting me back as well. I'm really happy that my water didn't break because I was really nervous about that. And that's come to the end of the show. Thank you so much. I know a few of you had questions and stuff, but we've just run out of time. Thank you so much for coming, everyone. That's really awesome mention of the copy of the book. Oh, yeah. And if you want copies of Socialism, it's a great book. It's available, so I can't see where it is. It's just going to set up. Oh, they're going to set it up, so cool. Can I also have one more thing? Go on, then. Oh, sorry. We are doing a... So, for the Francisley Foundation, we are doing a... We want to recreate some sort of exhibition to focus on East and South East Asian footballers or sports people. And we're doing a survey at the moment. So, QR codes. There's a QR code if you can do the... If you click on that, we have a survey. Do you want to pass it here? I'll hold it. I've... I'm going, I'm going. We did a quick look. And on the survey, there was a bit which was asking about... Oh, yours? What sort of way people want to see more information about people from the East and South East Asian backgrounds in sport, and one of them was podcasting. So, I mean, do you know anyone who does a really good podcast? No, no idea. It comes to the wrong place. Did you have any final words as well? Sorry, I completely forgot about that. Only that on my own project, I'm... Basically, it was quite tricky to get the people involved in my project, just because it was kind of like early days. But I'm really interested to hear about anyone else's experience if you identify with being British, Chinese, and having any kind of rural kind of either upbringing or kind of background. I'm sort of interested in carrying my projects on, even if it's just on a research way of doing things. Since the show started, I have had people come to me and say, I'm Chinese and British. I come from Bedfordshire as well, which is just creepy because I didn't know that that was a thing. But yeah, I want to keep finding people with similar backgrounds and having more of a conversation because I think it needs to be talked about more. Cool. Cool, thanks everyone. Thanks everyone for joining.