 Are you guys finding Twitter fun? Nope at all Twitter Just waiting to get banned for something stupid, right? I feel like that's the same for me It's just a matter of time before I get bad if I say something wrong Don't misgender somebody or tell someone to learn to code But it's not a ban because they said to learn to code Oh, yeah, so when I someone in my server got a 12-hour suspension for telling polygon polygon They should learn to code. I was there because when you get fired. It's like you're rubbing it in. Oh Is that how they would justify that because I'm curious what that would come under it's like this No, exactly attempt is yeah, that's the justification for it Yeah, well people have been people have been spamming it on mass It's kind of become just a spam. Oh, like you're adding fuel to the fire sort of thing Yeah, remember if a lot of other people say it and you say it well It doesn't seem fair, but I guess you know Twitter being fair is a really a thing Yeah, I'm unfortunately logged into this chat is my actual name, but whatever You can swap that in the top right right in YouTube. Oh really use account I think oh well not on the chat like I'm assuming you have a yeah, it's fine Okay Anybody wants to find my address slash my tires go right ahead. It's a Toyota. I don't care E-fap 25 great up live This episode is called the e-fapening everyone Get ready. Oh, yeah, we haven't used that yet. That's That's surprising. I'm really I don't believe that E-fapening wait, was that one all the was that one all the celebrity Nudes got stolen. Why do you got to bring porn into it all the time dude? Yeah Oh my I slowed down our My uncle represented one of the kids who stole nudes from one of the celebrities eyeclad Really he got him a great deal. He was like he's just a kid. He just wanted to see naked whoever it was How old is the kid Oh, he was probably like 19 or something. I was gonna say like what what was his sentence after I don't remember What it was he just got probation because my uncle is a king Trying to remember what my uncle's out of here someone had to be in jail for that I could just want someone did go to jail Well, the thing is that like, you know, it there was different like groups He was like one kid who like got pulled into it, you know, some dudes Ring lead. There was multiple people doing it Yeah North koreans Yes Yeah, the north the north koreans were definitely part of it Oh, I don't know if I I don't know if I buy that they hacked sony. It's it's a little it's a little out there Yeah later Um, right. Anyway, so since that's a decent chunk of time for people to be jumping in, uh I will go quick. You got the kid got eight months in prison. It's pretty good. I'm gonna say eight months Yeah, I don't know because I don't know what the precedent is for something like that, you know Is that is that now with a good job there? Because like that must have been a About the fact that you can't remove the photos. I mean no matter what they do There's some other country server is going to be hosting them for forever It's not that I've seen them or anything. Not that I've looked into this I'd say that's a pretty light sentence man. If somebody took a picture of me. I didn't want being out there me being naked Oh, uh, there he goes So uh in the middle of his pun The only way to fix that is to start working out and get yourself looking really good and then release those nudes Yeah, and then you could still probably get some money out of suing them as well. Let's just win win But uh Unfortunately, it took us a while to get the stream started because veto's been trying to fix his ability to stay and speak And it looks like it has not been fixed. I don't know what's causing it But uh, he may be popping in and out throughout the stream even though he's supposed to be a Consistent guest So in the meantime, I guess we'll just Oh Hello, a lot of people want you to ask me about my you get to look at women comment. I would love to I would love to We'll uh work on that. I will give I'll give everybody an intro. We'll totally talk about that. But uh veto are you there? Last one too. Yes. Hello. Uh, hopefully it stays longer this time. You didn't leave on purpose this time No, it's just gonna keep dropping me in and out and I don't know why discord's crap for some reason Vito You bat zero get it together Normally I run a I run a live stream. I do discord for two hours straight. I have no problem I don't know what's it's because you're in the probe or whatever Probably the server is Localized next to you and not yeah, it is a western europe Uh server right now. It's his region western europe. So that's probably what's screwing me over Well, if you can't connect to europe I don't want to connect to europe. I probably have a racist router that doesn't like you Wait, can I change it to like america u.s central happy better? Hello Yeah, okay, I guess maybe that'll improve it. I don't know. Hopefully we can we're weeding out the weak links here Is this what's happening? Um, is this v2 weak link in this analogy? No, but come on get it together. I know right? This is like Come on. Uh, but yeah, okay. Oh now it's u.s east. I have no idea what discord's doing or what it wants to do, but uh Okay, so anyway, this is efab number 25 The last one we did was like considered a season finale because of the insanity that took place 25 years of efab 25 years It's it's insane. I don't even know how we managed to oh, I just invited you to a server for no reason to ignore that Um, wait, this is a really funny pun majorly more like minor p. You know, that's actually pretty accurate I take a lot of minor p It's true. I do. Um We got got me pegged We it's been said now the season one villain of efab was quintin reviews season twos villain was jack and eric put together So we're excited to see what happens in season three considering this first episode as as many people may have Noist there's no dishonored wolf. It's because he was essentially busy for the whole week We're gonna try and obviously have him back uh next week next time But because of him being unable to be here. We've got two guests two Wonderful beautiful guests the first hello. Hi Fuck off rags. Jesus christ. You're not a guest. Oh wait. No, that's the meme, right? Yeah rags. How you doing? Uh special guests, uh, we're doing great. I'm glad to be on again Mm-hmm You too if it'll keep me on for more two seconds. Oh, right. Yeah, so while while v2 is here, uh You you what don't you want to talk about your channel and and why you decided to degrade yourself by coming here today Oh, uh, my name is vido. I don't really know what my channel is I just kind of make stuff But I made a video about star wars that a lot of people liked What was it a? Jedi a cinematic failure But you did that you did that video. Yeah, motherfucker dude Man that movie was five million views my man The king of star wars criticism is here moller. I'm sorry. Oh, I'll settle for the the jack of criticism of the yeah Oh, I don't want to go for queen personally. I'll have the jester of criticism. You can be my jester. I got no problem with that You know, I I'm I'm so embarrassed. I was ripping into you. I didn't even know you did that hilarious video Did you watch did you watch that one? Oh, thank you, sir. Be honest I I just looked at the thumbnail and that that was enough to just crack me up. I mean Good work Yeah, people got real mad about that thumbnail. Uh, I still get people being like, how could you treat general holdo that way? make her look I'm like, I don't know man. I just played around with the liquefied tool in photoshop I wasn't really thinking that hard about it I just mean the whole cinematic failure part. That's just as hilarious to me Yeah, I don't know why that that phrase has A cinematic failure would be if the movie didn't get finished like if it wasn't a film it would be Maybe there's an argument to be made I've definitely had arguments people would they're like You should it's all right. It's a good time. But yeah, definitely. I don't know if that phrase makes sense, but What do you get there? I see other people making youtube videos using it now and I'm like, oh, you gotta have a hot title You know, you got to have a hot title and a hot thumbnail with a hot See what you do. It's very clickable. It's like shit, man Well, could you call something a literary failure is what I say I mean a failure to be good. Oh a good failure You could just you could have gone with like an embarrassment to cinema Something like that Yeah, I mean that's a potential clickable one too. Um And so, yeah, the uh, so not a good good to have you here soon It would be fun to talk about um anything but Star Wars, right? That's probably not a topic that we'll cover. I seriously doubt it, you know, why would anyone Talk about that Um, you know, if you guys want to talk about Star Trek discovery instead. I'm I'm sort of down, but I've I've not seen it, but do you like it or hate it? It definitely has a lot of hateable elements like I can totally see why A lot of people are calling it, you know SJW propaganda. I mean it is very diverse You got to look with like a magnifying glass to find like a straight white male on the show that isn't like a bad guy But you know, that doesn't bother me, but I it is very Heavy with that But all that aside, I think it's a really solid Star Trek show I mean, there's so much stuff that relates to the the past. I mean, you know References to all these little things and characters, you know, Captain Archer they they bring up. I mean, I don't know I think if you've watched all of Trek, it's it's got a lot to enjoy, but You know, it's not perfect. It's definitely got your TV drama issues, but uh Yeah, I was a little confused. So so discovery is not part of the official Star Trek timeline now I I know that people thought that yeah, because there's like the Kelvin universe and everything it is I mean, it totally is, you know, they Spock's in it Pike is in it They they talk about the you know, the Klingon war is referenced a lot in in old Star Trek So it definitely relates. I think it's kind of like the first JJ You know reboot film where it it started out as being this Prequel but by the end of it. It's like, yeah, there's these two timelines happening at once So yeah People in the chat are saying it's not officially the original. I don't know. I think no, they're probably right I there's two original timelines now like apparently You have to interpret the prime timeline. I don't I don't there's two universes But but it's I don't know to a guy like me who hasn't seen every single episode of every series It definitely feels like it's all just in the same Realm but you know that could be just because it's consistent I don't know I was actually gonna say to make sure because I'm totally cool with this talking But I was gonna say we also have major lee if you'd like to tell everybody a bit about your channel Then I'll I'll I'll get you up to speed on on a potential of of your uh, your rep here on eFap Not to say that. What do you want to know dude? I mean, I'm I'm I am at your mercy. Just Uh, your channel you what would you say your channel is all about? You know, it's a pretty idiotic place to be but I think it's uh It's it's all about having fun. I like making people laugh And uh, you got your video game shit. You got some star wars stuff But I started out really not intending to cover either of those things. I wanted to do, you know Videos about random stuff, but really those were getting no views and I like talking about video games So I started doing that and I like talking about star wars. So I started doing that and uh Then it kind of turned into this character Sort of that I started to kind of keep up Because to me it's just it's just fun. I mean, it's like, uh It's like an outlet for me to just be crazy and say wacky shit You um, you take certain positions that want people could call controversial like you uh, you're very in favor of The star wars battlefront 2 game the uh, the 2017 one is it? I love it How have you found the response to that uh position? Well, I I totally get that the shop system was terrible I mean, especially when the game first came out, you know, the the prices of characters were insane But even then I mean, there's so much good stuff to enjoy in that game. The campaign mode is awesome It actually has a storyline that bridges Return to jedi to force awakens and yeah, it's not amazing. It's not perfect. It's not like Cinematic quality, but I thought it was pretty damn good And there's a lot of funny lines that they give to han and lando billy d is in it So it really hurt that the campaign is terrible. No, it's great, man There's one I mean, there's so many great moments like you're han solo and you're fighting enemies in mas canada's Cantina and you got like a beard and it's just like total fan service, you know, you're playing as lea on naboo They actually, you know bridged all these different elements. It's like you're playing as lea, but you're in this prequel setting You know, you play as eiden versio the imperial turned rebel who kind of Helps you defeat the empire in this story and I don't know. I just thought they did a really good job You know, you got luke. He finds the compass with del meco There's a little reference last year and I this is the game where there's a mission where luke like has to kill the spider things Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, we were watching a video and someone was playing that in the background and we were laughing at it It looks so awful. Uh, yeah, I have no play the graphics. Yeah, it looks terrible. Well, it looks amazing I mean, maybe it sounds terrible, but you got it. I mean, it's a beautiful World that you're in the animations looked really funky the uh, it looks like it was there a mini game Where luke can squeeze the green milk out of some alien titty because I would play that I really wish that was in the game. Make that like a clicker mobile game Oh man, I want that on my phone now I really recommend just like first of all the game is like probably 10 bucks an hour like 17 dollars So, I mean, it's so worth it if you're really just a freaking obsessed fan And you just like looking at the shit and being luke can slash in through stormtroopers. It's fucking great You know, you got arcade mode Tons of multiplayer modes that are really I mean you you're packed in with like 40 players I mean Probably not an accurate number, but this is a shit ton of people playing that game I mean at this point if it's what it's like 10 bucks probably so it's probably worth it for 10 bucks I want to buy it on I would play it That the added dooku you got you got grievous now you got obiwan Packed in well, I mean That's what I'd say it would be interested to visit But the thing is like there is an ethical quandary of like do you even remotely support them with their good games I won't buy a battlefront 2 What is a good EA game? Honestly, I if you really played all the content in this game you wouldn't be able to deny that there's quality there It's like, yeah, the the microtransactions all that shit. It's it's terrible I'm using it to probably fund like the child sex slave ring or something. I don't know what EA is up to It's something bad. I'm not gonna buy a multiplayer game with pay to win microtransactions That's a leap Every time I buy it, you see the thing is it doesn't really affect the game that much I mean if all you care about is winning then yeah, but it clearly does it clearly does It doesn't affect the game, but it does affect whether or not you win Because when you're playing the campaign mode, this has nothing to do with the microtransactions If you're talking about multiplayer modes, then yeah, I mean, I don't care about some lame campaign Well, then don't buy the game. Yeah, if you're just playing it for the online experience Then yeah, you're gonna be you're gonna be like, all right People are better than me. I suck and it's gonna take me a while to get these star cards But I'm telling you there's plenty to enjoy without that our card whole element I dude, I suck at that game And I'm there are times when I I win and I'm like how the fuck did that just happen because It's not always you're getting your ass whooped by people who are super overpowered You get some shitheads or suck But when you play online like what is a star card like you get a better lightsaber if you pay more money Like no, it's like there's a lot of cool ways you unlock stuff in the game I mean you have like cool because it costs money. Okay, the things that if I go online Why would I be worse than anybody else like Money to get the strong star cards. Whereas you would have to what is the star card? Why is it strong? Is that a character? It's an upgrade for your It's like it's like Okay, it's like it's for specific attacks like let's say ray has like a lunge attack One of the star cards would be like lunge plus two or you know, whatever it's like you upgrade your moves And you can customize how you do that They make your character objectively better sometimes in serious ways You know the the thing about the game is that I think you have to be Just a massive star wars fan to like it It's like you have to be just into the fan service if you're looking for like a a competitor to like you know Call a duty or rainbow six, then You just play those but a game should be a good game on its own, right? Yeah, because it sounds like what you're describing is like hey, it's got fans It's yeah, but look, I mean people want fan service in episode nine They're saying they they just want to go back They just we just want palpatine and pad may and just bring make luke alive We just want the characters to be together. I mean like They probably thought that star wars fans would just eat it up because there's so much to like Like you uh, you don't want that for episode nine, right? Fuck no, but you got to understand the people that are right in battlefront two I thought you're advocating for battlefront two when you may you say I am like the people that decided There's going to be a shitty shop system are not the same people that designed the gameplay and wrote the story Sure, but you can't it's all in the game so many Right, but it's not their fault. They worked hard on those aspects and those aspects are fucking great I mean like I've had so much fun playing that game. We usually blame. Yeah So many hours. They're the ones that would have pushed. Yeah, but I'm not going to support a game if I have to pay for a game if it especially if it's not a free to play game Like this released as a $60 game with pay to win microtransactions in it. Like that's that's awful. That's terrible. That's also totally normal But yeah, it's it's not totally normal. No, it's not totally normal Do you think microtransactions are normal the question becomes like why help normalize it? You can go I don't want to help Just just put it out there god of war One of the most successful games of the previous year didn't have any to microtransactions I mean a lot of games just reasonable to have any. No, I mean it's like when you said it was doing It's normal and massive multiplayer online. Yeah, of course. Have you played an mmo before it's like these are fantasy star I mean Fuck so much. Are you really? You don't like you don't say I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm saying normal is a relative to him. I don't think it's But it depends on the game too. I mean if we're talking about a We're talking about a multiplayer game. I mean apex legends just came out. I don't have to spend money on it You know, it's cosmetic overwatch Cosmetics yeah, like the difference. No, it's not the same with every other battlefront Different thing the campaign regardless and it's If I just want to play the multiplayer that i'm gonna have multiplayer sick No, you're gonna have a great time. It's fucking awesome. I'm gonna be worse than everybody else. You're gonna love it You're gonna be coming worse than people who spend more money But if what I enjoy is not being worse than everybody else on the server, whatever that is my enjoy game Do I still enjoy it? There's a mode where you only play as the the you know the heroes like the ray and the vaders of the world and it's fucking awesome I mean, it's just four on four Yeah, it's four on four and I miss you and it doesn't fix anything does it dude? It doesn't matter. You don't need star cards like dude. I'm like level. It makes you objectively better If you're telling us it literally says ability of your character plus You know You know, it doesn't define that's not that you would win, but it certainly increases your chances definitively Well, how else how else would you want to have it? I mean Yeah, like veto just cosmetic only But yeah, but then there's no fun in upgrading the character now you get to shitting me You get to upgrade their moves. That's the whole point You got you when you upgrade a character you want to upgrade their moves not just their outfit Yeah, but why do I gotta spend money on it? I don't buy final fantasy and every time I level up my character I gotta put a dollar in the slot. I try to play games You can have a character upgrade system that I don't kind of pay money for Right I understand the fun of upgrading a character. Absolutely, but just give me I'll play the game and get experience points and spend them Don't be like, oh 100 dollars and you get a magic card that usually you're spending 100 dollars you You need to get You have lots of classes lots of weapons lots of and there's all kinds of balancing That allows each other to counter each other depending on what you're picking up that creates the matter You don't just go this thing. I really feel like it's it's pretty balanced Like I'm not getting my ass whooped all the time. I dude. I suck at the game My characters are low level and it's not that bad like in terms of just You know being feeling like you're outnumbered or people are way stronger than you it doesn't fucking matter Just it's fun regardless. I'm telling you. Have you played the game at all or have you just watched a video? I watched many videos and I'm not buying the game Pick up Clarify Talking about a game you never even play. Why are we even wasting time on this? Let's move on It's fun to play guys, it's fun to play chess when you don't have half the pieces, you know chess is more fun It's pay-to-win game that i'm defending you can't talk about it I was about to say if we're talking specifically about it, you should play it If we're talking specifically about you haven't said anything that's wrong the pay-to-win elements I would never utter a word The the length that you've done. I would never do that for a game that I've never said that's right What have I said that's wrong nothing you just said too much You never played the game never said anything wrong You can judge things you haven't played if somebody tells me Where a guy gets if a guy if there's a movie about a guy getting a nail jammed in his deck for two hours I can objectively say yeah, that that probably is not a thing I want to say, you know, so if you tell me there's a star wars game Or I gotta pay 20 bucks to be as good as everybody else. I can go. It's not my kind of experience All right To clarify what what you're suggesting is that the the pay-to-win elements and are like not that important You're saying like they don't make that much of a deal doesn't matter game is still good. I'm sorry. I just don't care No, no, I get it. But the fact that they exist is a very poor practice It's not perfect. Look, you got to at least give the game like a four or a five or so I'm not saying it's a 10 out of 10 game But to give it a zero it's like dude. You're ignoring the good elements I'm not saying you did but people did I'm that's what I made my video about because there were a lot of zeros So I'm just saying you got to just be realistic. It's not the best game But it's like an ethical judgment from a lot of people where if you you cross that line It doesn't matter what your game is because you've all right. Well, that's sort of thing I'm not going to argue with that if you want to be have strong principles. That's that's fine. But you know Just don't don't overreact. It's not the end of the it's just a freaking game. I mean, yeah, it's you're not going to Get every trophy It literally doesn't it doesn't matter it really doesn't matter It's still it clearly does to people my veto baton zero play the game All right. I'm excited. I can't wait It's like nine Hand me the nails. They're going nine. He says it's good. So I'm going to jam the nail up my dick hole because he said it's good What are you glen danzig? What's with this dick nailing? Just I'm just saying I mean, it's on the same level The beautiful analogy Fair enough fair a lot of giving my giving my money to EA feels like jamming it. Yeah a nail through my dick I won't argue with this. That's my thought EA has to earn my money I'm not just going to throw them money so that I could spend more money Yeah, it's a bit of a weird. That's the thing because You like to earn How old is this game by the way this game's what like three four years old at this point two years only Play was it 2015 for the first one and no one's gonna buy it. No one's gonna play it. I'm gonna send you a copy I'm gonna send you my copy. I will play it. I'm sure it'll be stupid for like 10 bucks But then at a certain point I'm gonna be like, all right, I'm just getting my ass kicked online I'm gonna not want to play it. I haven't I don't know if they've changed anything in the game since all the Like of a what kind of changes they make so I know that they tried to reduce the amount of grinding you needed to unlock certain things Well, not to mention the insane amount of free content They've given you like the last Jedi content the solo characters the new stuff from the prequels You know, like I said, you got Dooku and Grievous and Obi-Wan in there But I mean, yeah, they they did reduce drastically the prices Of unlocking shit, which I don't even think was that good of an idea because now you really made yourself look stupid But now I think a lot of the main characters are all free On EA's payroll or something you talk. I just insulted them. What are you even talking about? I'm being I'm like, I'm trying to be as fair as I can I like the game lower the prices of the microtransactions in the $60 game that they released It made well, it just made because it made the people who did spend all that money feel really fucking angry. I'm sure You know, what was the point? I can feel angry. Yeah, I'm fine with the people who spent Money on objective advantages and what should be a fair multiplayer game. Yeah, I don't care if they feel shafted People in the chatter saying that uh, it is now only cosmetic. Yeah, I don't know Apparently you cannot you cannot buy star cut upgrades with money bent over even more They they bent over backwards even more. I don't know if it's bent over. Fairer minutes for their players Yeah, I hope that they would well, I remember the biggest thing being now the game Didn't they flaws are like minuscule Well, didn't didn't they prove that to be able to play as Darth Vader He needed to grind for about 900 hours when the game came out Well, something ridiculous. Yeah, I'm sure he was expensive. Yeah, it probably cost like Stupid amount of credit. Yeah, that was what caused the initial controversy. You know, I like to look at the bright side of things I don't know if you notice that but you know, you gotta just Appreciate the fat the aspects of the game that are good and there's a fuck ton of them I'd like to move on though. You know, probably talking in circles about this game I think we reached a nice little conclusion there, but uh We we we are in a in a watch together. They were we're not gonna look at we usually look at meme videos At first, but we're not gonna do that because wolf's not here and he needs to appreciate That he's in a lot of them. So we will I mean, we got a chunky chunky intro there. Anyway, so the first video and possibly the only video No, not the kittens Line it up. I need to use the restroom real quick. I'll be right back All right. Well, I mean I can just fucking introduce the video. Anyway, it's a video called Uh Star Wars the fandom menace and I believe it is a video that is critical of the negative response to tlj um Not got a huge amount of views and it's not like uh You know the guy who made it. I don't know. He's got 34k so this is relatively a Strong channel maybe but um, yeah, the idea will be I haven't actually seen this video I've only seen like the opening and I'll just be curious to have a look at it And then maybe we can talk about the movie and possibly the uh the culture surrounding it I really hope I really hope he sticks it to those incel man babies But uh, yeah, not every tlj haters an incel man, baby. We we know I am, you know, I I can't hear you from your basement v2 Test one too. Oh, no, never mean you can't hear me. Uh, oh, yeah. So by the way, I just Should say that we did cover your video uh in like e-fap. I want to say Like 16 17 one of the earlier ones. Hi video. No, no, no majorly. Please. Um, oh, I'm aware Um, and and yeah, I assume I got a tsunami of comments after that We we enjoyed the hell out of it. We may have disagreed with it hugely, but uh, we really The uh, I think by the way, were you responding to you responded to a bit of veto's video in that video? Did you or did you not? No, I I honestly haven't seen his complete cinematic failure Uh, I just I just loved the the title so much. It just you know, you know, the I'll never forget The you get to look at women comment Wasn't that in response to the the part where veto says something like there's there's like five women on the screen at the Same time right now. No, no, I I don't think uh, I was aware of anything he had said That was just in response to you know, amazing lucas just being a clown. Okay. Okay. Well, yeah We thought that was a hilarious counter argument. Um, oh, yeah, I mean I I you you gotta understand I am fully aware that a lot of things I say are very easy to make fun of It's I I want you to make fun of it. That's the thing. It's like I'd rather you make fun of me for Stuff that I know is stupid than Not like that's a libtard thing to say. I know that's the point I want to piss off the amazing lucases of the world I want to say the exact opposite of what they're thinking because I know it's gonna get a uh, you know Reaction out of them. No, wait, is your opinion your opinion or is your opinion Baiting it's my it's my opinion. I I do I do like the casting in the film I think uh, Laura during is hot. I think Billy is hot Yeah, I mean, you get I mean I look at that She's wearing around her neck and I'm like, yeah You know the thing about hall doe is like The reason why I love the character is because yeah, it's not what you'd expect She looks like this purple-haired lady that that doesn't fight isn't a general or an admiral But she steps in and then when she You know cuts po down in that next scene You see that she is really who this person is. She's really an admiral She has she probably has what it takes to be lair's successor And she does because she teaches po the exact same lesson that leo was trying to teach him, you know There's only dead heroes dead, uh, what was the line like something Dead soldiers no here dead heroes no leaders. That's what leo said to him. And it's just like doesn't hold Oh become a dead hero That's the Han but but but there she's still a leader though. She led she still taught po the lesson. Yeah, that's the thing like Yeah, they all died But the lesson that luke gave at the end of the movie, for example Was that you can use non-violence to succeed in a war Which should be the lesson that the jedi are teaching us at the end of this movie And thank god that this film She didn't find what she hates to defeat the first order No, that's well, that's that was the whole point po went ape shit got the whole bombing fleet killed in In her eyes. Yeah, it was and maybe it wasn't the best. Oh, it actually wasn't po Well, it wasn't even that bad of an idea. That's the thing. It's like everyone makes mistakes. It's not po No, he said it was po. It wasn't po. Who did that? Oh, who got the who? Wanted the bombing squad to attack at the beginning the bombing squad did it on their own on orders from leo Well leo wanted them to go back and not destroy the dreadnought and po went against her No, i'm confused She ordered them in but then po took it to the next level. He's like we have a chance to take out the dreadnought and lay It was like no turn back around and then he shut her off Yeah, he knew it here, but she can still talk to the bombing units. Yeah, she ordered the bombers out That was her She she didn't want them all to get killed. She slapped him. She scolded him. She said she did and i Considered a bit of a reckless move considering she had all of the power to be able to draw them back She made the mistake too of putting po in charge of that mission maybe Yeah, wait, how does the how does the chain of command work there? Because she goes all the bombers go in and then they're like, all right leo gave us that instruction But now we listen to po on whether or not to turn back I don't know It's not very well translated in the film because it shows po muting here, but it doesn't mean that everyone else can't hear Leia Like Not to mention the invisible bombers appearing from nowhere once po brings them in Maybe po was like mauler and he just like kicked leia out of the chat and they all just didn't hear I I I I guess that I don't know. Yeah, you're right. That wasn't explained, but you know, I don't know It didn't really bother me. I mean it just felt like He was going against her and that's great drama by the way The fact that you see these heroes budding heads, it really fleshed out I think that leia and po are not heroes No, I thought you meant the one with uh holdo and po No, no, no, I mean the very opening scene is great. I mean, it's such a great dynamic Like the idea of two good guys clash on what should be done I just uh Like for instance, by the way, if they decided to turn back unless those bombers have hyperdrive They never would have made it back to the radis before they'd get shot down It's just slow they were Yeah, I mean And if they have hyperdrive, holy shit, they should just hyperdrive one bomber into a and they do by the way The the ships do have hyperdrive. We actually checked. Well, I mean look how much fuel they have, you know, it's like It doesn't matter This whole thing was that they you know, I don't know That just didn't really come up in my mind for the fucking god knows how many times I've seen the film It's just You know, yeah, I'm sure if you really pick apart the timing of the fuel consumption and events and that Yeah, you'll probably find some holes. It's not even about that. You're right. It's not about that No, your thing So That scene I like all the explosions and spaces But no to go back to the women To go back to the women comics People love that. Uh, yeah, I just really do like Looking at the women in this film. I think it's well shot. Do you think rose is a very attractive woman? I think kelly mary tran is very attractive. Definitely I don't I wouldn't say that the character of rose is supposed to be attractive I mean, you know rose is the person that they needed she she needed to be this pure fighter who lost Her other half her sister and that's why she will not stand for finn being a deserter and she will not stand for him trying to He tried to leave and an escape. Yeah, but when did he join the resistance? Yeah And yeah, but he was gonna steal an escape. No, he was just he offered help. He was never part of the resistance Yeah, but well, whatever. I mean she knew that he helped with the star killer base mission She thought he was a hero. She knew that people looked up to him. He was important They needed him and rose just needed to be who she was to get people in line She's probably gonna have that same role in episode nine. I hate to say it fin The I think in episode nine She's gonna be nursing a little black baby. How was rose. How was rose getting fin in line? Are you serious? There's like four scenes where she Slaps him and tells him what's up. Yeah, tell tell me tell me Well, the very first one is when she tases him the next one is right after that How was that getting him in line? Because the dude really I just said that because they need fin fin is gonna be a big Big part of episode nine. I hope he fucking picks up. How was fin out of line? Dude, he's he's filled with flaws that character In the scene that you mentioned, where was he out of line and how he tries to escape in the pod? With his back-up hack Well, why is that to go get ready? Why is that bad? He's trying to save someone's life. Yeah, that was unnecessary It was a dumb thing to do no matter what whether it's cowardly or whatever It was not the right decision. They needed fin first of all fin had the whole plan That didn't work, but at least he tried and what was fin going to do. Sorry, which plan Him and rose came up with that plan to sneak on to the the supremacy Right guys, but that's how are they gonna devise that if fin escaped? Well, that plan didn't go any ways Sure, it didn't but still that that's the movie though. There would be no movie if you He was gonna fight what he hates but what he needed to do with save what he loves Is true Like although sometimes she saved and I don't understand what the difference is but okay I Say that one more time. I didn't quite catch that He he was fighting what he hates but what he needed to do was save what he loves That's how he was fighting what he hated That's the line, right? I'm curious. Yeah, I actually genuinely want to get your answer on this So, um, would you say that holdo was a defending what she loves rather than attacking what she hates in her maneuver? Not the suicide maneuver. No, but definitely in the whole escape plan. Yeah, for sure I mean that was what pissed po off. That's what pissed the audience off So you think that she was doing the attack what you hate when she did the hyperdrive thing She did both when she was loading the escape pods. Yes If you can do both, what's the point? I was going to say do anything. You gotta be balanced. You gotta do both The rose says that you shouldn't do one and you should do the other She says sometimes it's better to say Obviously you have to fight that's how we're going to win this thing. Yeah, well that particular moment. Yeah Yeah, that particular moment you you can't kill yourself finned like don't die because The laser beam scenario, but later on you get to fight what you hate Also, yeah Yeah, one person already killed them two people killed themselves sacrificed himself. We had page. We had holdo. We don't need fin That's too much. Why didn't they get it? Oh, but if they hadn't a blasted open the wall, they could have stayed there for indefinite amount of time Wait, if they hadn't blasted open, you mean the wall at the end? Yeah, like the we would we were told that if they destroy the cannon Then the cannon can't blast the wall and thus they would be safe And so they're just trying to destroy it wouldn't wouldn't matter. It's protecting what he loves or no There was a better plan anyway Or was he hating what he saves? Hold on. He's getting caught. Luke Luke had his own amazing trajectory Okay, yeah, Luke did the same thing. Yeah, he chose not to fight Kylo. See if Luke physically went there He loved. Yeah, like everyone he loved If everyone like kevin smith got their way and luke got in the x-wing or whatever physically went there Only two things could have happened either he kills kylo or kylo kills him How how it didn't how do you figure that those are the only two endings? What else is going to happen? What else is going to happen? He delays kylo and then escapes. All right. Are you Dude kylo is strong. He wounds kylo and refuses to kill him But the whole point is kylo and i'm sorry to say this i know people are gonna be like, oh my god But kylo could whoop his ass. I'm sorry. Look at how fucking buff he was. This should call him darth wall I mean, uh, I mean rey be kylo Of a fight is who's more sure sure rey be kylo, but she's the good guy. Well, we don't want the good guy to lose No, be fair Kylo's lightsaber has three beams and luke's only has one Well, yeah, there you go. So there's that more buffs. So he wins except if the other person's a good guy In which case it doesn't matter. I do want to sort of highlight rags his point there I found it interesting that you said like what can even happen if luke goes there personally It's like do you not there's a he would have died he would have died or kylo What I was going to say was something has to happen as a writer You have like a thousand options and you limited it to kylo dies or luke dies It's like so many other things could happen Name one I'll just Imagine in episode five right cloud city luke and vader go there the only two options is that luke dies or vader dies There's no other options Yeah, because he he escaped but look, I mean, oh one of them escaped that's possibly wasn't that maybe that wasn't possible Unless you were not physically there. What do you mean? Maybe it wasn't Why why wouldn't order? I mean you're standing in front of like fucking they escaped They escaped in the movie picture this that's an option of what happened They battle they battle and then luke wounds kylo by he smashes the lightsaber with an extremely good move with the lightsaber and cows on the floor like Yes, he does not kill kylo. There's literally a precedent. Yes. It there's there's a precedent set for this being able to happen So yes, of course, that's a possibility. That's a possibility, but I don't think that would have been that good I'm sorry. Oh, so it is a possibility. So there's more than two possibilities That's not a good one. It's like you Oh, okay, so you're right It's like when people say that ray should have been a whatever. I like it when people like yeah, that could have happened But it would have been for me Dude, I'm just saying it's not that effective. I know you said I'm right. Why wouldn't uh, why wouldn't it be effective? Because it's just not a big happening. Just someone getting it's not a big happening That's what this is leading up. I would refer you to empire strikes back the biggest happening in the series Yeah, yeah, okay, but look we got to take it to the next level by the way the whole fact that kylo and luke had that conversation where luke apologized and Tried to get some kind of redemption. I mean, don't you think that that was we could really dramatically impactful Okay, so they talk but then they also fight. I mean, that's what literally happens Yeah, but like again luke is not as strong as these new characters luke and snook have to rely on mind tricks Exactly. Maybe he does. Maybe he tricks kylo. He he has like a force sort of clone that kylo attacks and Force for like a let me back up for it. Let me ask you guys a question Uh, what actually are your problems with the ending? This sounds like a non sequitur Uh, that was the same fucking topic. Tell me what your problem is. You mean the death of luke skywalker Is that yes? Yes. Tell me Vito because you seem like you feel stronger about this But what what what are your problems with the whole luke's ending thing? He doesn't die as luke skywalker. He never resumes. He doesn't die as luke As an old bitter man. How is he old and bitter? He apologizes to kylo. He shows compassion What is the apology when he when he? Literally says i'm sorry The wrong Everything is just just disappears. There's no there's no Like hey man I think you're going down the wrong path. I think there's still good in you There's no there's no obi-wan to darth vader being like, you know, strike me down I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine He kind of said that he said i'll see you around and he did say if you strike me down I'll always haunt you like your father Well, he basically just tells them. Hey, you're a failure. See you You know, dude, he apologize. That's one way to look at it Definitely and and that's why it's so cool because you could look at it as he's taunting him And making fun of him or you could look at it as he's apologizing and trying to I've said this in my videos sound like i'm quoting myself I'm actually going to back you up here. A lot of people are saying he doesn't apologize. Luke does say i'm sorry. I failed you Yeah, he literally says i'm sorry. I failed you and that's why the scene has had to happen because If luke fought kylo. Yes, it would have been cool But it wouldn't have made sense in the story luke's whole reason for being on that island was because he held This saber over kylo something he feels awful about he created this tyrant this Hitler of the universe I mean, it wouldn't be galaxy. Uh, I don't think that's what he's and i'm pretty sure luke's side Snoke is the one who created him. He says snoke's gone to his heart Sure, but kylo blames luke. I think he's apologized for uh, yeah, go ahead Well, he blames luke and and the only thing luke could have done was apologize if luke fought kylo We just wouldn't have made sense. Well, i'm gonna go. It would have made perfect sense. I'm gonna rectify what I did by kicking This kid's ass. Well, like we suggested he wouldn't kill him. He would stop him Yeah, but we've already seen that with rey. It's like it's a reaper. There's literally a precedent for it Why you just suggested that luke wouldn't kill him. So what we just said had to be in character, right? He wouldn't know i'm saying he would either he would kill him or kylo would kill him And neither one of those would be good. Where would it go from there? What would be the third? Clarify you think that luke would execute kylo If they fought wouldn't you want to see that would if people this is part of why people think that luke has been damaged That's something we would never expect luke to do. Yeah, that's not. Yeah, that would be shockingly fair That would divert the shit out of my expectations. Look, I think the only thing that made sense I think the only thing that made it right. I mean people said that about luke though people were like, oh, that's how you're gonna kill luke It's like That's the best way to kill him off and and not that i'm saying he should be killed off But that's where the story was going when when the force awakens came out and luke was not present during han solo's death How you gonna explain that there could have been a million reasons why he was out there Yeah, but this this one made the most sense. I'm sorry like if luke If luke was over in like a library researching badass fighting techniques That's not good enough to to like let han die that that does doesn't make sense The only thing that you can do is make him this this depressed hermit who who's rejecting everything It's like not at all not at all all right So what would what would you have rather had them studying the force? He was out there studying the force building a secret Jedi temple on the island letting han die He wasn't there. It wasn't a way that was happening. Yeah That's not relevant or maybe kylo, you know cut him down He's meditating gaining his strength back in the absolutely. He could have been injured by kylo He was I mean, how do you think he was able to do this this force projection that That's why he didn't show up to save han because he was these wounded or whatever emotionally wounded Who knows I mean the the the move that luke did do, you know the fighting move It could have been that you were searching for a way to defeat snook luke was trying to he's the ultimate Like original sith or something and luke didn't but see that but again that wasn't necessary because kylo kills Your question was what else can you do? That's a post hoc rationalization for why he didn't do something. All right. Okay. Sure. Yeah So you said there were no other options. We came up with like four or five right there But they don't make that much sense though. It makes a lot of sense luke Okay, snook did not need to get killed by luke. Yes. I was going to the theater expecting them to do all I was right with you guys. I thought this film. No, I didn't think I didn't care if luke Okay, fine, whatever people did a lot of people did I've read some of them did yeah people I think people more concerned with Having an explanation. That's all I think it's no cabin explanation Yeah, just have a snow explanation So you guys don't like that snook had no backstory What is to like about that? Yeah The fact that he didn't need one at all Except for the gap between episode six and seven sure dude that should have been filled in already It's not that's the thing When you have this character who by the way in the force awakens I thought it was pretty fucking weak because he had no backstory and and by this point It's so irrelevant No, no, it's not I if you look at my video for force awakens I I say that snook is a weak character because who the fuck is this guy? We don't know anything and now at this point it really doesn't matter because in the last jedi It's not about that the first scene we see with him. There's drama between him and kylo He's treating kylo like shit. He's shaping kylo. No the problem still exists. It's like they've moved on Down the road, you know, we need to know something about snook. We know nothing yet to clarify a dude who's there At least it's the emperor. We knew like, okay. He took over the galaxy So you just want another emperor You just want like a character that basically is the same role as the emperor again the fact they cut him That's what they like they wrote him as a new emperor. I was about to say I've been corny if we're assuming Even if it's corny at least he had at least he serves a purpose in the story If in this conversation we assume the force awakens is in stone and we can't change it then yes We're currently dealing with an emperor clone. So what can we do? That's what they wrote him as so what can we if you're saying from the ground up? No, I wouldn't have had an emperor clone But if we're dealing with the force awakens as our law, we have to then I go Okay, so the first thing I've got to do because jj fucked up is explain how six became seven And the one of the biggest things to do is figure out snook Where was snoke when palpatine was in power? Where was snoke and how did he can convert kylo? How did snoke tear apart the skywalker and solo families? How did snoke gather so much power and men? Snoke is the key to all of this Yeah, but he doesn't have to be though No, I'm not saying I wanted I read the fan theories where he was the key and you know Everyone was like you gotta pay attention to snoke because the movies tell us he is Kylo's the key now. It really is all because that's after the fact This is after the fact after it's all before I mean maybe snoke only rose to power because he found kylo and was using him You know, maybe where do you even draw that inference? I don't I'm just saying it's possible. You're just making it up We have nothing to go by because of these characters. That's not what you have to do. Everyone is making up Tell that to the frickin stupid fan theories that that are out. I don't know anything about fan theories This is just us You don't know anything about fan theories. Well, then you know, I don't I don't pay attention I don't pay attention. I don't know the researching fan fan theories is like what research is that relevant to It's totally necessary. You have to know what people are saying about the film if you want to like But it's not real. We don't know if it's real or not All we have to go that set in stone is the movies. I don't care what the fan theory Then why did you bring up that I have to research fan theories if you agree with what I just said Did you hear what we were saying before like are you forgetting the sentence that came before I said You seem to be doing this a lot like I'll say something and you asked me why I'm saying it But it's like dude. Are you are you following the conversation? Honestly? I was wondering why I love you follow because you're giving me mixed signals here Because dude we're talking about And people wanted to know something about him. There was all these theories about him like oh, he's dark plague it Exactly who fucking cares who snow you said that I have to know what the theories are and I need to research the theories I would think that you would at least have one if you were upset that he had no back story Is that rags? I'm going to try and explain both of your positions of why they're clashing rags is saying Snoke needs to be explained so that we have continuity and you're saying you've got all these fan theories that try to do it what we're trying to do now, but it's like we're We're talking about it to get to a point where the film's actually just follow We don't care like the idea is like Snoke is mace window. It's like I don't care Snoke is palpatine's brother. I don't care what I need is specific information of how he made this mechanically happen Why this happened? I don't how he rose to power then is what you want to know Just how he will be in this position I don't know the well because like he might have been in power this whole time As long as you know something. Yeah Honestly, you know, you're not wrong. But again, this was a thing I brought up when the force awakens came out. It was like this Something that has always been a flaw and and at this point especially now that he's fucking dead And that he made kylo even more of who he is because he did that forray and then she kind of turned him down It it was all just leading up to this great moment where now kylo is this powerful leader of the of the first order And that's what Snoke's purpose was What it leads to But uh, if Snoke is alive that that could be fun I mean when that that shot where he had his tongue hanging out when I first saw that I thought that was An interesting thing to do Well, it was almost like maybe he's still alive because his eyes were open And you know, his body slumped over on its own Um, yeah, there's a few things that they could undo like if they wanted to make the only thing I know about Snoke isn't that what doesn't leia say like oh, he turned kylo. Was it leia who said that? Yes It was leia and han weren't talking to each other yet. Well, that's a luke who said it as well in tlj It's interesting. What does that mean? What does it mean exactly? How did he tell those families of kylo doing before then? That's true during the original trilogy. What is his has been missing? You're right. I mean in the Why do I got to wait till the third movie to figure out My villain's motivation in a way it's it's cool because you know me into this at all I think I hear I have no idea what I love. I have no idea and I don't care The upside to it is that we're learning this really interesting backstory through flashbacks Which hasn't been done before and I think it's being done pretty damn well When in fact two of my favorite characters of all time are dead and I have no idea why or for what purpose Dude, come on luke luke sent a great message in this book Because he's running away from your problems. He had to teach that you need to You put love over everything. He did exactly what he did for his father. He chose not to fight him This is a war movie. You can't put love over anything. That's a theme. Yes, but it's a star wars movie It's a space fantasy and it's about love. It's it's about family and relationships Okay, it's about love. I got it. It's about love outside of the theme Why did kylo run need luke skalker today? Why was kylo so pissed off at luke because dude luke? No, no, no, no, that's not the question you asked. That's not the question. He asked Okay, what did he ask? I'm sorry. He asked why kylo needed luke to die He just wanted to kill luke out of a sense of revenge. I think there's more to it than that, right? There's a lot of reasons. I think he Give us three I'm fucking telling you. Okay. Number one. He he wants to be the most powerful jedi. He's got a snuff luke out Oh, yeah, we'll take these one at a time. When did he say he wants to be the most powerful jedi? What what element of the script supports what you just said? Why wouldn't he want that? Can you reference just a scene or a line to support what you just said? First of all, snook told him to he said skywalker lives you need to snuff him out blah blah blah Maybe he's just ingrained that this is kylo's mission that and the fact that he blames luke for making him how Fucked up. He is he clearly blames him I mean, you could tell from that showdown that they had the way he was looking at luke He was like a like a snarling dog. I mean the guy just had so much honest animosity towards luke I I don't think he was just on snokes orders. He really blames luke for fucking him up. Well, maybe So the story is over. So kylo got what he wants luke's cowher's dead and we don't need a third movie, right? No, no, see now ray and kylo have to go at it because now kylo's gonna be really pissed at ray for turning him down He told luke. I will destroy her and everyone and now he's going other hopefully hunt me down Yeah, we're asking for the reason for that statement not the state. Well, it's the same thing It's it's just like luke, you know Ray Saw the good in kylo and it wasn't enough luke saw the bad in kylo and it wasn't good enough for kylo He's so fucking tortured. It's like when luke did what he did He was seeing the dark side future of kylo and ray is trying to do the opposite of that But it's too late for him and that's why it's so tragic because in the force awakens everybody was aware that kylo Was like a pussy and wasn't you know fully dark And you know, again, I think that's why he wore the mask tragedy The tragedy is that kylo could have been good He's the son of leia and haan But he maybe he almost was but if luke didn't do what he did he would have been okay Or was luke seeing a distorted vision? Was luke getting a dark side like trip and that wasn't even the correct future It's such a mind fuck. Man. I wish to make a comparison, right? All right at the at the end of uh empire. I know what's going on Okay, the the empire wants to kill the rebels Darth vader wants to convert luke scow a pretty evil, right? Right I know everything that's going on and i'm ready for a third movie The first order is now under kylo. I don't know why that matters or what he wants with them Luke Skywalker's dead. I don't know what that accomplishes kylo wants ray kylo is going to burn it all down for a girl That's how fang crazy He just wants everything gone. Why did he take the first order then? Why didn't he tell them all to pull out their guns and shoot themselves in the air? Yeah, what about the whole because ray turned him down That was this was the next best thing he wanted to rule with ray when he found out he couldn't do that He was like, fuck it. I'm going to take control of this and now he's gonna know he said he wanted to leave it all behind He didn't want to rule whatever What you think is contradicted by something in the film and I was gonna say you can't I understand the need to say whatever But it's like but this is your point isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, this is this is literally you get what I'm trying to say though He wanted ray and him to join forces. That's that's what I'm trying to say He wanted him. Can you see how me as a yeah Can you see how me as a person who wanted to be invested in the star worst thing? I'm going into the third movie like Oh, why do I care like I have no idea what anybody wants Okay, other than oh, there's bad guys and there's good guys because some of them have red light sabers and some of them have Blue light sabers like that's pretty much all the information I have I hear what you're saying There was kind of like a reset button hit in a way But look it's the exact opposite of what we were left off with the force awakens this This fucking grueling cliffhanger where it's like we know the next movie is gonna be Like a minute after this. This is the exact opposite of that. We're taking a year off We're gonna let these characters grow and evolve probably become more don't grow them off screen. Please Oh boy, what do you think return of the jedi did when we when we saw them again? They were so much more Good at what they do We couldn't have had a character grow. Okay. Well not haunt, but like luke definitely evolved between those movies and an empire They would get a little bit of a training for empire Confidence is would be the primary So you're saying you don't want dude. I'm excited to see fin and rey and po after a year I can't wait to see what they're gonna be like. I mean, I definitely I want a timeskiff. Absolutely I think they're gonna need one. I don't think they can do the film without a timeskiff at this point Yeah, they're gonna have to basically require one. It's gonna be free. It's I hear what you're saying though it is kind of And it's all different now like the stakes are different the motivations are different Like you said when we left off an empire, there was this clear cut conflict now It's it's about rey and kylo and it should be I mean By return of the because that's how the original was too and the prequels. It's all it's all about this have to be like the original Okay, so do you not honestly? I'm not trying to like piss you off by saying this but like are you aware that like The main plot line of the prequels and the original trilogy is the the family drama or the relationship Why does that even matter? Because that's dramatic. Why does that why does that have why do we have to redo old things? Why does that have to not redoing it? It's very different If anything, it's the polar opposite in the original trilogy The whole more the whole theme was that you have to love your family unconditionally and and Redeem them and this one. I think it's going to be the opposite. I think it's if someone's not your family Hate your family. No, you just let them go. It's okay to stab your family The moral of the movie. I'm talking about rey rey asked rey asked to let kylo go. He's the abusive boyfriend He why didn't she just leave? She did she closed the door on him at the end of the movie. She shut that door So if she leaves him, then what's what's the conflict? She's just leaving Kylo's gonna hunt her down. He's fucking because he said I'm gonna destroy her What why? Because he doesn't like her. He's a whiny baby. Well, this is this is kind of The moral of the story is that's kind of a weak really The I think he's a phenomenal I want to be clear The intriguing conflict at the center of the movie is kylo ren is a bitch is what you're telling me That is the hook. No, come on. Why should I be invested in this character? And you're like, he's a bitch. Isn't that great? That's not why I said you should be invested in him. Come on, dude I'm saying he's he's a very complicated character as he should be. We we don't want to a villain That's just you know, we don't want a villain. That's just pure evil. We've seen that really evil though Now he is yeah, but he but I'm glad that he started out kind of conflicted Did you say we we haven't seen like a non pure evil character? I'm just saying it's been done so much in all types of movies. That's thank you fucking god I just mean like it wasn't fader by premise a good guy that slowly turns evil Right. That's why he was fucking good. You have to have someone that's confused and kylo is such a confused menace He's always going to be a menace. He always has to burn shit down and Fuck everything up and kill people. He's a windy little bitch. He does whatever the current writer wants him to do Yeah I love I love going to the toy store and I see these kylo ren figures and like what kid is buying this being like All right, let's play star wars. You have to be kylo ren. I don't want to be kylo ren. He's a bitch I can see what you mean I'd be confused as to how to cosplay kylo ren exactly. It's like depends on what scene you're gunning for is how he feels You know what? I feel really bad. I feel really bad about all the people About like the five hundred dollar like replica kylo ren helmet when force awakens comes out And then last year I comes out and they basically go You're like a little bitch version of garth vader, aren't you? I heard JJ is planning on bringing the mask back Mask that was the only thing I liked What do you mean? That's the only thing I like. What are you seven? That's the only thing I like about kylo ren. He's got a cool mask and a cool mask It's child. It's like you're like going with the iconic imagery. You don't even care about his personality It doesn't have anything to it. Oh my god. Star Wars is childish It's not that we don't care about the characters that there's no there's no meaning or substance. It's all wishy washy All right, I'm not gonna argue if see here's my position if you have a problem with force awakens and last shed eye That's a whole different argument, but if you're trying to tell me that Okay, fine, but if you're trying to sit there and be like force awakens is amazing last shed. I sucks I didn't think you I'm just saying that's Where I'm coming There's a lot of people that say that and it's fucking ridiculous. It's like backwards Force awakens has good costume design. Let's put it that way. That's true. I don't know man Leia was looking like hillary clinton and that By the way, can we at least acknowledge that yes leia was mary poppins in the last shed eye But at least she fucking did something she did nothing in the force awakens. She walked around All right, I I know but hey man, at least Dude, I'm just saying it's better than fucking her treatment and as hillary clinton pantsuit I'm sorry. Oh, it really wasn't though It's better to do nothing Or knocked the fuck out. I felt more for leia reacting to han's death than I did in anything in the tlj It was a good moment Let me ask you guys this Remember when they cut that sink on the last Jedi for luke. That was a smart one Wait, you mean when he was crying you didn't like that? No, they cut it from the film. He cut the yeah No, but did were you serious that that was smarter or no, I can't It was sarcasm that they cut that from the film. That was ridiculous Right, what do you think? Do you think it should have been in the there's a delete? Wait, there's a blue crying 100 percent. How have you not seen this? There are scenes that were deleted that I think are are legitimately bad Like I think that tom hardy scene is fucking garbage. Oh, yeah. No, I agree with you But this scene I'm I'm just put it in our well, I'll PM it to uh, I'll put it in both The crying was so quick and you know another really quick moment that they should have left in It was so brief. I mean literally 10 seconds where you see luke Speaking the caretakers language to them. I thought that was fucking great. Well, yeah But we we did get 11 minutes of kanto bites. So um Vito if you just check that out Wacky casino. Yeah. Uh, no, I did look at it. It's pretty useless little scene there, huh? No, it's good. I just like there's a there's a lot of people who will defend the last Jedi to the death And they'll say like the the argument I've seen is we don't need this. We know he's sad about han Oh, no, I I think they definitely should have left that in the film I also really liked the deleted scene where Finn sees the hologram of rey and him. I you can make fun of me I know it's corny, but I love that. I thought it was really really good. Well, I'm just curious Do you think it's insane that they cut this luke scene because I do I think it's uh, I would have I don't not really Uh, if you if you think about it, there are people out there that probably thought it would have been corny and unnecessary We see a lot of I think ryan johnson actually said this I hate to like take the words out of his mouth, but there are a lot of shots of luke's Like face with his mouth open in the film. I mean it kind of Fine cut one of the other ones Take place like right after he finds out about han solow. I'm not sure how it was actually It was right before I don't know where you I don't know where you drop this in exactly I think if you actually watch it it shows what's after it and yeah, it's weird. I think it cuts to like leah In that room In front of you know when she's sitting there at the table like because rey's not in the room with him at this point Right sense what's going on by himself But like I think it cut to leah at sitting at the table with like her hand covering her mouth She was like thinking about how this was going, you know like legit when I first saw the movie The first thing that slapped me right out of it was when she says She explains what happened to to han well, he says, um where's han and it cuts away That to me was the most bizarre choice for filmmaking in history to have luke find out that han is dead offscreen I hear you but at the same time it's like People would have probably you're right Uh, I kind of thought that too. I kind of wanted to see rey say that But it's also really good when they cut back And you're just seeing luke sitting there on the steps looking demented like he obviously just heard the news And that is pretty effective so Yeah, you know, I don't think it was effective. Some people don't even string together that that's what's happening A lot of people are just like because remember what he talks about acting like before anyway, and he says She makes her argument about the first order, then he's just like what do you expect me to do it? So we we assume that he's just fucking All despondent about the fact that someone's come to him to help get into a war as opposed to the han solo stuff This scene the reason it works about is there's nothing else. This is just him Because no one's there. That's the important thing. No one's looking at him. So he gets to be raw true Yeah, no, I I I agree. Yeah with the with the han thing I don't know. I uh, I think it's fine, but um, you know, it's it's all just part of that Thing where we all really wanted to see these characters together or at least talking about each other Yeah, at least but the fact that they never got to be in the same room is also really I hate to use his word again, but it's just fucking effective Like it really makes you appreciate the old movies because now those are really special because we get to see those characters together They're they're different. It's like these movies are not even trying to be better than those They're trying to be different and do their own thing. So it's like they're respecting those The movies are bad because they make the old movies more treasure that didn't say Yeah, I don't know man. I'm just saying It's dark the fact that you realize what you're missing out on Well, I mean, but but that's that makes you really appreciate the old films. It's like, yeah the events that happen Why would you want to appreciate the old films? I can watch those whenever I want like make me appreciate this film I just think it the the scenario that's going on in these in the sequel trilogy It's really fucking dark as it should be. It should be a lot harder for these characters Because it's episode eight things. It's supposed to be like level eight in a video game. Everything needs to get harder 10 wait, so episode 10 is going to be darker than episode nine I'm not saying it's gonna be darker. It should be harder for the heroes to win. Therefore, you gotta kill off some people Dark hard same thing But why yeah, why does that mean that's conflict is the end of return of the king Right is that darker than the middle of the two towers? You mean the part where Frodo's getting his finger bitten off? No, the end of the return of the king. It's the resolution It's happy. I mean, no, no, but but it's further down the road. It should be darker That's what dude. Come on. It's a strange like I'm applying your logic. Yeah, he's just trying to No, yes, I am let's let's let's roll it back. Why does episode eight need to be dark slash hard The for the characters Because why else would we be watching what how else is it going to be like? What's the point if if the stakes aren't heightened and you can only do that by making these Are there are there stakes in a new hope thrown out in the space? Yeah, there's stakes in a new hall. Are there stakes in the false awakens? You know, I actually thought the stakes were kind of low in that film Well, what I'm suggesting is the the stakes would still exist Even if you're not going dark and hot I'm actually I would advocate in a trilogy that you Bring the heroes down in in the second of the three films However, I thought that you maybe would have been a proponent of being like well, we did that before So why don't we try something else? Well, they're new characters now I mean, not only do we have actual new characters, but the old ones have grown up so much They're practically different people because they've learned so much. I mean, you know, Leia has this power now to fly or whatever pull herself Is that your example of all the characters learning? No, I'm just saying it's like why now? Oh, okay. I guess they did change and meaning Luke changed. Obviously we've except we've He can probably fly too, right? Everybody can fly Hey, yeah, I'm just I'm just fucking with you man. Yeah, but all this fundamental character shift I'm goofing on you with no justification Wait, say that again. I'm sorry. Oh this fund like for Luke, especially this fundamental Complete total character shift into a new person is done all off-screen with extremely little just I don't think it was a complete fundamental shift into a new person at all He just had a downer moment. He was in a rut. He made a mistake And isn't it great that we didn't get to see why that happened Well, you mean why luke held the saber over kylo? I'm talking about the time between then and the end of episode six. We don't get to see any of that Well, you know, again, they waited really fucking long to do these movies the characters are old now and they gave us a Flashback in which kylo was playing luke students. So why not have just made a trilogy in that time? I don't know. That's a good question. They probably thought it would have been more effective to just cut right to the future Disagree I think they decided to try and remake a new hope and decided the best time to do it would be 30 years later when you can just Hey, if you want to if you want to shift gears and to dump it on force awakens. We I'm down Well, that's that's a whole other topic. This is the thing The one thing I give the last Jedi is that if I was told to write and direct the sequel to force awakens The first thing I'd want to say is like by the way jj. Fuck you for putting me in this position But that does not mean you can't make a well written Explanatory film the first thing I'd be thinking about is like guys We've got to fix this we've got to explain all the things that jj skipped over to have his beautiful payoffs Like we I think they tried that with the flashback. I mean, you know, we saw that Moment where luke did this I just I was In my head, I was thinking like right 30 minute flashback loads of exposition He was just like the three second flashback that we saw three times. That'll do it So you wanted to see okay, so you wanted to see a longer flashback then I am more substantive flashback start Well, I mean a lot of people probably wouldn't have been down with that You know, it's not all you need to do is set up framing devices So for one we have kylo being taught by snook the final lessons of being a sith and while they're doing it They can recant some history some then we go with ray and luke talking about how all this came to happen That's the perfect setup like luke. What the fuck happened and luke's like, okay, so blah blah blah You're you're not wrong. I think there is still room to do that And it would and it would be pretty cool if they did that in the third movie because this movie was about the history between kylo and luke Well, okay. Yeah, it's really I don't think this Look, this movie was pretty packed with shit I mean the the fact that it managed to not really be that convoluted is pretty fucking incredible Yeah, we had a lot of scenes, but I thought we agreed the kanto bite was almost pointless though Absolutely, we did we did not agree on that We agreed it went nowhere. I don't know what you defined that meaning Dude, come on. Hey, hey It has the rain man That war Very important Here's why I love kanto bite. All right, by the way, when I first saw the movie I was in heaven during that scene. Here's why I love kanto, but no, no, no, no, no words Of a dying. Here's why I love kanto bite. Go go go for it. Go for it. Uh, it's it's a pure adventure I mean, it's it's the pure adventure part of the film where you're just Dropped into this star wars casino, which is totally new for the films Dude, it's just fun man, like That was a real question. Is it first of all? It's it has a purpose the whole point is that the question is it better because it's new is being new I never said it was better than anything. I'm just saying it was really One of the qualities that you assigned to the scene was that it was new It is it's a casino. All right, so because it's new Better, I mean, I'm just saying it's we haven't seen this So right so it's it's a new setting We've got new creatures so and we have this plot where these people are you're just skipping right over Why does that make it better? I'm explaining to you have this plot I gotta hear these people these people are like weapons dealers It's showing you this other side of the war that's going on that I can't believe some people had a problem with I thought that was really interesting and Then you have this this accident where they bump into this kid who just happens to have the force He at the end of the movie and it's like yes It seemed like they were just fucking up and running around But look they had good intentions and it led to good things and fin needed to learn that lesson Fin needed to lead to Dude the kid the kid he had the force no matter what Right, but he has the ring now. He knows What did fin learn exactly that that war is bad War is bad For some massacre a bunch of civilians like wasn't that his I realized war is bad moment It's not that war is bad The lesson was that this glitz and glam it has a dark underbelly and also that You have to like Show people that you have good intentions not just take the mantle of the hero like she thought he was in the beginning of the movie She frees that fucking the father of the cat horse and why not the children? Yeah, the children, you know The children they left the children they freed the space horse Why don't save the children? I know you don't know nobody knows it's a massive a scene. We don't know what the fuck they're trying to do here You know the the kid was like six. I mean How old was the horse? Maybe he grew up in that stable and just maybe he grew up in that stable. Leave him here to his slavery He looked like he was having gone as they should have just left anakin on tatooine because he was born there Can I present? He was to a uh an argument to to li I want to see how he reacts to this so Uh the the way I think we're supposed to interpret it is that the kid is ecstatic to see that the rebels not only Certainly exist because it's because of that ring But it's uh What are you doing? While I go pee Okay, so uh, I get that right and the kid is like happy It's like hey the the the people are here and he wants to support them because obviously he's in a in a rough spot um Yeah The and you can you can talk about any source of the issue for this be it force awakens or tlj But my assumption here was okay So the fighting between the first order and the Resistance has only really been going on for a day because the republic was destroyed a day prior to that who were in power and were blissfully like vaguely unaware of the first orders at least power so canto bite uh Is flourishing hardcore under the republic So why would this kid want the good guys quote unquote to even be in power when his entire life He's been that way thanks to them if anything when she showed that ring I would expect him to be like you fuck her hate them Well, I mean he you know, it's possible that since he is very young. He probably Didn't think that deep but no, you're not wrong. I just think that you know, this kid He's a jedi. I mean he he should be part of the fight and no, he's not a jedi. He can use the force No, no, no, you're talking about the character of luke. That's one of the very important distinctions that luke makes This is your character. You love so much. That's actually a part of film. Yeah Yeah, the force does not belong to the jedi the forces right that's true. Okay. Yeah, so you're right. Yeah He doesn't have to be a jedi. He's just kidding. That's a force But he's meant to be in this fight. I mean he wore that ring and he looked up at that ship He wants to fight on the resistance side. He's probably wanted to for a while He has this luke skywalker action figure that he just made and it but it makes it obviously into it Well, you know, no, it doesn't make any sense that he would want to support the government That's responsible for his condition Or you'd be happy to see them. I don't understand what he thinks that they do One could say that the resistance is only fighting because the first order isn't power I mean, don't they already empower yesterday. Can this kid even know about this? Maybe he's working off of the legends from the original trilogy Maybe he heard about the return of the jedi and he's Playing with those toys and now this new thing just inspired him. I don't know I'm gonna actually all side with leave for for one time. I'd say that kid Has heard a bunch of story book adventures of the guy walker. That's all he knows. No, I'm actually on your side I'm gonna say I'm gonna say neither of you make any sense That's because you like honoring those And there's the kid has only been alive for like 10 years at most there is no world that he grew up with That didn't have the republic in power Yeah, but why how would he know how but like you tell him be the canto bite the most effluent fucking or affluent Expensive place of the planet doesn't have up-to-date news on who's in power But I don't think I get what you're saying, but man, it's just it I know it does make a lot of sense Doesn't matter though. It's like these are things that yeah making sense does matter in films I feel like what you're saying is totally valid But I think you could do this play any film you could play even colonial times. You're not like it doesn't matter Take any film that like you love I guarantee really doesn't matter say things like this about forest people in america Saying is that they're flaws in other films too. That doesn't alleviate the flaws in this one. No, I'm just saying they're not even Flaw it's like it's not a big deal. It's just this thing that like I guess you could Yeah, it just no it just doesn't matter just because you can do it in another film. That doesn't mean anything That's not relevant. I'm saying they could do it in films that you like and you probably don't have we would accept it as a flaw as well Is different than a flaw in the film. That's good That's completely the reason this matters is because that kid saves them in that movie So you're saying it's a flaw in the film that the kid Is a fan of the good guys and not just not it doesn't follow The kid would not recognize them and he would certainly not like them and yet he's the reason they escape In two ways. He supplies them vehicles and he opens the gates for them You know, he it's possible that maybe his slave mother told him stories of the magic Yeah, he probably just thinks that the rebels are good and you know, he's gonna side with you So, I mean we gotta write for them at that point Yeah, we're going by what's in the film and you're extrapolating Based on oh, I'm just saying there's plenty of characters in kanto bite that are painted as not good I mean, there should be someone that is just gonna Stick to the light and just how does he know it's the light? That's the point we're trying to make just because there's other How does anybody in that you know what I'm suggesting is that if I grew up in his position? I might look at the first order as the saviors Yeah, I mean Well, the first order can't argue with it. I just don't either of them is ending slavery Yeah, the difference is that we're just going by what's in the film. We're not trying to make stuff up I don't even think that kid is going to be an episode nine by the way I don't think so. He's probably going to be in ryan johnson's solo trilogy Or or not even but that would be interesting But yeah, I think he really was just a symbol of the fact that luke Since left me here in slavery. What what luke did actually did reach people's ears. I mean it actually had Yeah, that honestly bothers me more. I'd like to I'd like to approach that that is watch that on youtube It's like a live That's a good question. I I I don't argue with that either. I mean, yeah It's right to him with this action figure made Lee genuine question. Lee. How would you describe to somebody what happened on crate? Like in definitive terms not like flowery language literally just like mechanically I truly Truly was just over the moon at that's at that whole crate sequence and still ask What do you want to know? I mean what what I'm suggesting is if if if the if the Rebels or the resistance sorry the ones who spread the story of luke all they saw was him getting pelted by 8080s and he didn't die They didn't see anything else remember they were heading to the ship when he was fighting kylo Or doing something with kylo so they didn't see any of that But they don't need to know that he did this crazy thing They just know that he sit he let the rebels escape he came Distracted the first order and the rebels were allowed to survive. I mean that that could be all that they know And that's enough to be inspiring. Um, yeah, so the if that's the story that alone, right? I'm not going to say that I can't inspire anybody the guy do that. He stood up to an army of 88 he stood up however Tiananmen Square thing, but how the hell did the story even get out? When they're all on the land was it a time skip because the kid is the exact same age as when we saw him That is As the millennium falcon is taking off raise furiously penning fan fiction And look, I know this is not in the film I'm just saying it's possible people were talking about it nearby the kid over her Maybe some guards or what about what about right tuxedo wearing fish people were like, oh, fuck you hear about the Let's say the story gets out. All right, and it makes sense that it gets out What about the first order being like by the way, he wasn't actually there It was just like a weird projection thing that story could ruin the the legend But maybe kylo is keeping that under wraps because that made kylo looks so bad Can you imagine the humiliation keep it under wraps at that point? What he he would expose luke he'd be like luke just sent a drone to try and make it look like he's a hero But he was a coward say that you could say that but it also makes kylo look really fucking stupid I mean here. He is swinging around his saber at a guy who's not even there embarrassing himself in front of his whole army I mean, you don't have to say that you don't have to say that. Yeah, I'm saying he could sell it However, he wants my suggestion is that it's it's a very strange story to have kicked off compared And this is the important bit The just 30 years ago when one man killed the two People at the top of the chain in the empire and was instrumental in its destruction and the freedom of the galaxy How is that story not everywhere? Well, maybe that is the story and Out of the fight for 30 years this this kid thought that all right Maybe he died and then the the news that he reappeared Was enough. I mean, you know Go ahead dude. I interrupt the dude No, I was gonna say I mean I honestly thought that it would be a thing where the story gets changed kind of like oral tradition So what those kids are talking about is like, yeah, he faced down the entire first order with a lightsaber So they don't have the details So it sounds inspiring without actually knowing Exactly what went down right because they don't need to know he died Maybe yeah, maybe all the details don't get out But you know, people just extrapolated themselves just passing this story around like Oh, and then he and then he cut the head off all the at you know The whole oral tradition thing it gets changed from person to person You guys think kylo knows checking out their message boards, you know, they're I don't know where they're getting this story from Yeah, doesn't kylo stab luke and then he disappears And then luke is actually dead uh back in his house. So you could actually argue kylo killed him Yeah, right, right. He let kylo kill him in a way. Oh, he let him So he sacrificed and still it's gonna get friends. Yeah escape. I mean that might be a good story I suppose it seems so hard to clarify exactly how the story spread and what the story would be I guess is the point here Yeah, it's very Right, but then again, this is the story. This is the story of the age I mean, this is luke skywalker saving what's left of the rebels that story's gonna travel somehow That's the biggest thing nobody cares about You know because they didn't come The kid knew that rose was out there and she was there or he he met rose He just went over why that kid shouldn't even be happy about that. They left him He should hate them. He should despise them. Yeah, I mean I I've really I have no rebuttal to that honestly Yeah, it's I would say it's terrible To roll back like this was just talking about cat to bite and it's it's such a mess But then like the main point when people usually make is that it It's self the opposite of self-fulfills like it's self-cancel. It was supposed to be a mess It was supposed to be this big mess. That's why it was good. That's why I loved it We're used on the word mess differently. I think There should be a scene in this movie that goes nowhere and it's just an aimless adventure and Yes, yes Present the argument go for it Dude, it's an adventure everything in star wars. It has been built up to be this Oh man, this has to happen and that character has to do this There should be there should be a moment where it's just a break from all the Deep plot twist and it's just this star wars escapism. You're literally riding this fucking Cat horse through this amazing town. By the way, that's another deleted scene I thought shouldn't have shouldn't have been cut the fucking And then you kept building on it, but where you started was wrong What No characters aren't destined to do these things by by star wars writing No, I'm just saying it's fun to have this scene where it's just people riding through a fucking casino Wrecking shit, but there's no point in it Star Wars Bellafront 2 and you have that for hours upon hours I was about to say what you just said whatever you want Like I can't even get behind it on a superficial level of just watching Because Wait, wait, we're frame this cat horse. We're helping this kid. They were just being good Yeah, okay being good. Wait, so it is There's like six arguments for this that we're gonna have to go through that Really just to see what your take is so Destroying kanto bite with those those creatures fin and rose they you you would agree they considered that a moral good and a general fun Yes, that's what they had thought that they were doing. Do you do you agree with they take on that? I 50% agree with it because as you know dj after that says, you know, some of those guys were good I'm sure they kind of felt kind of a little stupid. That's after This is at the time while they're doing it as they're getting ready to do it and as they're executing Let's ignore dj telling us that uh, people are morally good. They will just ignore that because that that should have been self-evident for them Yeah, but If you think that yeah, they're they're wrecking these rich assholes, you know, nice town So the concept of insurance, right? The idea that The good guys who are super well the guys who are super rich, uh, this isn't gonna bother them a favor then there you go Okay, so they get to take their aggression out and they're doing them a favor. It's a win-win No, no, that's not how any of the that's not how any of this mess. So two We do you think let's just assume there is an insurance for whatever reason? Who do you think's cleaning that mess up? That kid the kid with his broom the bro. It's It is so embarrassing to think that they did all the amount of damage They've dealt to that small child after all he did was help them Who knows how much whipping he's gonna get for all of this double whipping. They helped him, too, though I mean, they did they They gave him that ring man, it was oh, wow He gets cold with that ring that kid is getting executed Right. Yeah, they really just left him with like this big risk I here you go. I love the point I think it was him over here who's like, why is the richest casino place having six How useful is a six-year-old slave kid when you could get a robot that probably cleans the casino? Yeah, that's another one. It's gonna be an eight-year-old slave kid. Well, you have to have that creepy Child slavery. No, you didn't have to have that at all. Why not? Why not? No, no, no, no, why not is not a reason why they had to do it It's cool. These are completely different things. They didn't have to do it. They decided to write that in of their own volition Destiny did not lead them to writing those words. I thought that little butt alien was pretty cute Terrified That little ass Warwick Davis ass dude. He was hilarious. He shouldn't have been cut It seems like you're pretty much on board with this What we're suggesting here is that not only was the the action scene It seemed a little bit excessive for just enjoyment on a superficial level But if you think about it for a second, it becomes very like awkward and you know, you you pull your collar like Oh god, what are they fucking doing? And then they're like, this is why it's worth it And they let the the animals go. So if we ignore all the stuff that I just said Releasing captured racetrack animals. Do you know why that's not a thing people should do? Well, it went it went back to its family, didn't it? I think they showed It's just Didn't go to like a pack of other fathers. I was pretty dark scene, but I could have sworn it like I think there's like a chain or another one come out of the forest or no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, something like that, right? I It's a giant rich people planet a big net Well, yeah point point is they will be recaptured because that's how they get these things in the first place two We for depending on how long this thing was in captivity It can't even survive outside of captivity anymore because it wouldn't have any I do just know what to do Three the the flying things they're like right there as soon as they let it go I don't know what rose is thinking that it's like, yeah, there's no way they're getting captured again. It's a planet They can't fly away Maybe maybe guys in the chat I could have sworn and I know I should be sure about stuff like that But I could have sworn like when they freed it it was running over the hill to join like other ones Yeah, they're either way If that's true, then maybe they're gonna all be safe. Maybe if they're No, they'll I don't think it's definite. Look, it's based 99.8 percent. What I what I think people Yeah, what I think people who love the movie would say is you see Finn was like all happy about smashing the people we hate while while Ray Rose was like no, it's worth it now because we've saved what we love these innocent animals But you look at all the mechanics and it's like the message is nice But good god, you have fumbled its delivery and that would be the the problem I have I get the message just like I appreciate the message the failure is the best teacher I think that's a great message too But if I made a movie where I said that was my message and then it was just a black screen Like would that be a what you would consider a good movie? It's like we all it's like degrees in which you deliver this message, right? Do you have like a method Boy, it would have been better delivered. So I would have cut can to buy and re re redone the b-plot I would have made it so it was relevant first But if you were like, you know, we need it to say that you should protect what you love instead of attack We hate I'd be like, okay, we'll definitely do that But first we have to figure out what our b-plot is going to be But if you gave me that kind of creative freedom, I would want to nuke the a-plot as well I hate the slow chase. I think it's stupid. It makes no sense Do we want to talk about that? How does it make no sense? All right, this will be easy. This is like one of the this is the one that we got Billy the fridge with There's a lot of dialogue that they spend explaining it. Well, they tried. In fact, I don't even think it was necessary I'll give it to you that they tried to explain it, but they made it worse. Um So we've got the idea that the smaller the ship you are the faster you are, right? Right. So why can't the star destroyers cast into the raiders? Yeah, I mean Again, these are things that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I'm gonna say the same thing I said for the other thing. It's just not that important like I get what you're saying very easily You could easily pick out things that They should be doing if they're really going that slow This is central to the plot of the film Like everything relies on everything happens and it revolves around this scene this chase. Okay. What's the what's the main beef? None of it makes any sense. It doesn't make sense that it even happens. So first of all the star destroyers should be able to catch up to the raiders Let's knock that one out. Secondly, they can Hyperdrive ahead of that. Well, they because the film said the ship is smaller. They fall faster It's dumb ass logic, but that's the film the star destroyer smaller than the raiders Um, whether or not they wait, hang on I'm pretty sure they might actually be because the raiders are supposed to be the largest capital ship that the The resistance of ever had If it's not if it is the star destroyer like the main one is like massive the supremacy or no, I'm not talking about that one just the star destroyers Oh It doesn't even matter because this film operates It tells us that all of these ships can only move at the exact same speed as one another Well, I was gonna say that if we go even possibly speed up, which doesn't make any sense Fundamental you remember the opening for a new hope, right? Where the big ship is chasing and catches the little ship right Well, that's curious how that works. Um, well, I would assume considering I'm not an astronaut or a nasa person It doesn't matter how heavy or big your ship is it's going to be all about the thrusters because you're in space Yeah, I mean you're right the a new hope Tantive four or whatever it's called rebel blockade. Yeah, I mean they got they got uh boarded But again, it's like it's possible that man. Maybe their technology Evolved because they started using the act bars Stuff and now they can go as fast as the first order. I mean Well, either way, right? So if we throw that out, let's just pretend that's not a problem And it all makes sense. Uh, why can't the star destroyers send one ahead with hyperdrive tune around and head towards them to cut them off That's a big Thing to do for a star destroyer. I don't know. Maybe they turn really slow I don't I mean it's they have all the time in the world Time time isn't an issue. They have all the time in the world to just turn around So maybe that would use all their fuel up. No, no, no, no, no, they're a huge that they can literally go ahead and then No, the fuel thing it doesn't hold up. This is an organization that can build planet sized planet destroyers Resources are not an issue and not to mention that uh, the idea would be if you know, they all port in like On the ratus for some reason I don't know why kylo and hux would have ordered every single one to port the exact same place Behind the ratus instead of surrounding it But let's just say that was an accident. They go oops I hit the controller. All you need to do now is go. Okay star destroyer 7b go Uh back by like one Hyperdrive unit and then go forward by 1.001 and you'll be just ahead of them. You can cut them off But but that's assuming they can do that They absolutely can they can they can land in the orbits of planets They they they hyperdrive a lot if you remember an empire the star destroyers In the movie. Yeah. Yes. So it's established that they can do this. So why don't they do it? I don't know. Maybe they Just tell me why all right. All right. They don't they don't feel like it. We'll ignore that one We'll put a pin in that one. I mean I'll admit that that that thing offers a lot of questions, but I don't think it's a flaw necessarily It's just something that wasn't Explained a shit ton even though I thought it was but apparently not enough Uh It just didn't bother me like it didn't bother me one. I am okay with it not bothering you but to say it's not a flaw I find that interesting. What do you mean by it's not a flaw? I just I I mean, it's not a flaw because it didn't bother everybody. No, no, no, that doesn't matter Stop stop. I also don't think it's the a story. If anything, it's like the sea. No, no, we're going out of tangent We're going out to clarify I'm just explaining why I don't think it's important. No, that's not relevant It's not relevant whether you think it's important or not. You said that it's not a flaw because not everybody Is bothered by it. Is that how you define a flaw? No, I'm just saying it's not glaringly bad. It's not like a massive plot hole where So this makes no sense. This couldn't have happened. They had to have been caught. It's like now I don't I don't see it that way at all What can you just give me a what you consider a massive plot hole like in another film even if you want to just find out Geez, uh I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, let's see. What was the last bad movie I just watched Well, can we admit that plot holes exist in films? They exist. Absolutely Would you consider what we've been talking about a plot hole in a minor degree at least? Minor maybe nano degree I I I will say this it's probably not the strongest plot thread of the film, but I don't think that's because it's flawed I just don't think it has the stakes as Like the luke and ray storyline or the kylo and ray storyline and that's okay. I mean, I like it has far more stakes than both of them All right. Well, I saw it as this kind of break from that and it's what remains of the good guys outside of that That's the entire resistance right there Yeah, I mean, you know, it's just I don't remember what I was saying, but okay We'll put a pin in that one as well So when they go back to it when they connect to the radis with all the star destroyers They release four tie fighters Now before I make my point about that between the four of them They destroy the bridge on the radis and the radis is hangar and that's a lot of damage for four Tie fighters. Why did they send only four instead of a swarm? I'm starting to see a pattern with your guys as criticisms, but Why did they only send four tie fighters because kylo was a part of that squad? He was probably like no, I got this I'm a fucking even though he's told to retain because he can't handle it. So when kylo comes back. Why did they not send more? when Because they fucking wiped them out dude. Leia was they were still clearly alive in front of them were they Didn't didn't they didn't hucks have a line there where he was like Like right before they showed leia waking up and flying away. They had hucks and he Fuck, what did he say? He was like, well, we'll keep at a safe distance, but keep firing I can't remember the exact dialogue. I know. Yeah, it's some line. I feel like they did offer some kind of maybe it wasn't that strong Doesn't hucks get mad. He's like, why can't we catch up to them? Yeah, even though the tie fighters could catch up The tie fighters can we can establish a tie fighters can so why don't they just send tie fighters to blow up the radis? They have any left. I don't know They have fleets of them Maybe they were down to their last fleet at the end of the supremacy has like hundreds of thousands of personnel on it Yeah, but it got destroyed No, no, not yet Not yet. It hasn't Yeah, I mean they have hundreds of thousands of personnel. It's possible. It really is possible that kylo was just like no Okay, look The only explanation I have is that they're like, why waste the resources? You know, you could say that Why send the full tie fighters to begin with? Why waste the resources on destroying our only enemy? It's possible that it's probably just being so cocky. He's like, ah, it doesn't fucking matter But if they were cocky, we could just blow them up It it really is possible that these two sides Actually have a similar amount of resources at some point in this film because they're getting their shit from the same people We did learn that But they already have they established that all they have left is the radis the four support ships and the 400 people I believe while the first order And i'm totally kidding when I say this but maybe uh fin destroyed the city and now they can't buy any more ships But they already have All right I think the line that the the the you I think you're drawing is the whole like, uh, I don't care if it all lays out logically It's about the no, no, no, no, no. I I'm Totally comprehending what you're saying. It's not perfect. You don't consider that important, right? I don't even like I I do agree that the the lines were hux and that Fuck yeah, dude. What was that actor's name the his like first in command I can't remember the fat guy White guy. Yeah, the british guy, um That scene. Yeah, maybe the explanation could have been a little more Pleasing would you would you agree that like ryan johnson cared to put lines in to try and explain it? Therefore we should probably consider how well it's explained as in that's clearly i'm not saying that means it's good I'm just saying at least they know i'm suggesting that considers it important to his film He's like this needs to be explained i'm putting lines in that explain it Absolutely. He's obviously aware that someone is going to like you guys, you know be really scrutinizing the realism and you know, if everything adds up scientifically and mathematically I I don't think we've gone much further than literal just easy logic, right? We've just been like this x is y but else x is also x But again, it's like you could You could make up shit that's not in the movie and I think we're we're all kind of guilty of that Right now like no We're all just going by what's in the film Here's here's the problem for me. How is this a good enough explanation? Well We're using just what's in the film and we're pointing that out that it doesn't make any sense with the film's own Logical rules that it has set the film does not follow its own rules Yeah, it's not about relating it to our worlds. It's about what they tell us about their world Yeah, it's it's it's debatable, but I I see where you guys come how that's been going I I get how movies like this Probably are filled with shit like this because these are scenarios that don't really happen I mean, even if they do it doesn't matter the technology isn't real It's like it doesn't matter. There's gonna be a lot of shit that hold on a second I feel like there's gonna be a lot of shit in movies like this That's just never going to make full sense because this isn't real science It doesn't it needs to be consistent with its own here Here's the big thing for me is like if it was some random sci-fi movie set in its own universe Where it doesn't matter I'd be like, okay This movie's internal logic is inconsistent. So I'll turn off my brain and just Come up with explanations, you know that maybe make it make sense That's just lazy writing not even saying that but even if that was the case that would still be acceptable for some movies I'm not saying that's what you should be doing here. It would be like, yeah, the the writing kind of sucks But like Star Wars, it's like dude you have so much lore like so many people are invested in this universe I feel like it should be like an airtight ship where like there's not even a moment that I have to be like This doesn't make sense. Well, all you have to do is just follow the rules that you said Yeah, what about previous movies? I mean It doesn't matter. It doesn't literally disappear when Han was out running the Star Destroyer. I mean Why didn't they just yeah, what's the inconsistency? Why was he able to outrun them in this millennium Falcon? Sure, but it's this big Star Destroyer. Don't they have the ability to teleport in front of him? I mean Well, he was right next to them No, no, no, no, no, no because this is this is fair, right? What you should we should be applying the lens to every Star Wars film So what happens when Han Solo is evading them? He's literally flying around them Then he draws them into an asteroid field and then he hides in one of the astronauts Yeah, so but then they sent high fighters all of that follows to me So like what or you could even say how did the Star Destroyer really not detect that it was like on the fucking ship That to me always felt kind of attaching himself to the ship I could totally see that coming up on a tracker. It's being like, well, that's us So that's not when it was on the way. What about when it's traveling to the ship Couldn't have seen it then Well, the idea is that he's stuck so close to them that for temporarily They wouldn't be able to see him But then by the time they're waiting from to turn back up. They're like, where's he gone? So what you could say is it's pretty convenient that they didn't think to check the back of the Star Destroyer But I mean that seems like a pretty that to me is what Holdo's maneuver is done, right? It's a thing where we go. Oh That's kind of clever And even the people on the Millennium Falcon say like this this this fucking this worked like wow And he is a smuggler so it's precedent to think that he would know how to do this Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm not saying it's perfect I'm suggesting that we've got so much to work with from the actual universe for why that would make sense Yeah, well, I mean if we have none it is different you got to admit that like we we never had a chase scene like this in Star I don't think anyone has ever said it's not different Maybe they were just My biggest complaint But if we're at the point now where we've sort of shared those issues But you're you're at the point of being like, uh, they don't affect me whatsoever. That's fair. What I would like to sort of talk about then is So you've seen the disappearing knife right in the throne room Yeah, so does like does that bother you? Absolutely not. Okay. That scene is so fucking cool. It's okay every knife disappears I want to explain it mechanically why it would bother somebody. So the idea of like luke versus vader It's like what is your brain running on with all this like well vader is really powerful vader is evil vader's motivation Is to try and convert luke to the dark side, but he will threaten Their lives blah blah blah. He's gonna he's a pretty good fighter. So that's him Then we got luke. It's like well, he's gone through a bunch in this trilogy. He's he's better now than he's ever been He's super confident and he wants to defend not only the people that vader's threatening But also fight the chance of becoming The dark side and he's he's pretty skilled at this point too. Who's gonna win? This is gonna be interesting if luke's lightsaber disappeared the moment he went to strike vader and it just disappeared We'd be like whoa That's that's the lightsaber the floor is taken away from us in terms of we had all of our stakes We had all of the understanding of each team and now the film has just said no to that specific thing Luke no longer has a lightsaber. We need to do something that's getting in the way of so It's betraying the audience intelligence Luke's lightsaber and some henchmen's like little knife are very different. So let me know what happens when a dagger stabs you Let me relate it. So like I've made this that's the argument right in in that fiction So let's bring it over to the last Jedi ray Is we've got enough issues for how ray is is skilled and powerful like without What I would call proper exploitation. She's nailing it in this throne room fight Now she gets to the point where this guy tangles her where he can stab her in the back and she's finished But he doesn't because the knife disappears Yeah, it's a mistake. Yeah, she has the kind what I'm suggesting is what does it do to the stakes of the story? She is so powerful that she makes it happen What I'm suggesting is why it affects The the storyline not I'm not I think it's an error too I think it's a matter of them airbrushing it out when they Fucking failed to realize that she would be dead if they didn't do it That doesn't change the fact that it's massively critical to the stakes. She makes weapons disappear if they touch her You're I mean, well, you're treating it like it happened in the film Do you understand that that's what it's doing Like in the script it didn't say weapon disappears now. It doesn't matter. It happened Yeah, but it was a mistake. It wasn't yeah, we know that It's like the guy wearing blue jeans and gladiator. All right, you guys got a nail on it though You gotta be like, yeah, that was bad. Yeah. Yeah, it's a mistake I didn't even notice it until someone what I'm assuming the whole reason I brought this up is It bothering you and it being a mistake of two different things Yes, especially when it's that small that is such a small It saves her life. I was gonna say she literally survives because of it I should survive because kylo saved her at the last minute Because the knife disappears that was like yeah, but that didn't that wasn't okay Let me give you right. Uh, luke is wearing like literal converse in one scene You see him in a corner of the screen. You can see he's wearing that. You'd be like, what the fuck? I mean, it's gone by the next scene That is what I would call minor because it has absolutely no effect on anything But it's a mistake now a weapon disappearing before it can kill ray is Incredibly serious to the night. I hear that it's a weapon. Yeah, I get that it's it would have made or break her life Yeah, you're right But again, it just it wasn't intended to be in the story. I think that's very true I don't think they would ever have wanted that to be in the story I mean, it's on it's on the same level as you know, people You gotta be like, all right People are also making sure that they never hit ray and like aim over her head Let's talk about another guy and it hits three people Here's another thing that oh, okay Random so a guy can see if you want to talk about ray That's that's a topic but what I was going to get into was You know, if you want to ask my opinion on shit that's like hated the leia flying in space thing I thought could have been better. I don't hate it. I don't think it was terrible, but what do you think doesn't work about it? So I actually think it should have been longer. I know that probably sounds the opposite of what you don't think I'll present the argument I think the moment turned people off because it was really quick and jarring. I mean, here we are seeing Leia display this crazy power, you know, she's surviving in space. It's it's a big moment I think it should have just been dragged out a little bit Maybe we see like one more shot of her flying towards the camera. That sounds pretty silly But really I think it just should have sunk in a little more Here's another thing you could have done at let me know what you think of this What if instead of flying or pulling herself? she You might hate this too, but Like a blue shield or something forms around her and she protects herself from like the space radiation That's even worse. Okay. Well, I'm sure maybe some people would agree with you But then some people probably like oh, I like that better It it's like you could improve that scene a hundred million ways But I love the fact that we got to see Leia first of all almost die Actually have her like actually have some stakes for her And then we get to see her do this great thing and it's not like she just Was perfect after that the book tells us that she got really sick from that the book doesn't matter All right fair enough, but I'm just saying it really I'm glad that they did something like that But yeah, I think it could have been maybe Paced out a little better So how did she learn how to do that? Oh, I don't know She just How did I'm not too bothered by that? What did the what did Jessica Chastain learn at the end of interstellar that led to this? Well, I'm just saying it's like I a lot of times I don't I don't care about But uh, I'm just saying there's a lot of times you could be like, how did they learn that? Well, that's not relevant. I don't care. I don't care about this. What about ism of other movies? I'm asking about this movie. It's been 30 years. Maybe she just freaking learned it. She hadn't no Okay, she had because they didn't because they didn't say I learned this Um, so they confirmed that she to compare it again a few like where they confirmed that she does The knife thing the director if we're unaware of Powers or abilities that the The person has it'll change the stakes arbitrarily in the biggest payoff moments. What you need to do It's standard storytelling you go What we'll let the audience know that this is possible for layers like oh We need to have an earlier scene where she does something that implies that she's actually got a decent understanding of the force as opposed to luke telling her you have the force We need more than that. Otherwise when we're told she is dead. We're like, oh god And it's like oh, no, she's alive because of the force remember and you're like um There was a very quick Let me ask how you feel about this. I'm I'm guaranteed. I guarantee you're gonna be like it wasn't enough but In the last in the beginning of the film, there was a quick moment where you see leah Sensing That page is about to die or something big is about to happen The camera kind of zooms in or it's her kind of having like that That was sensing death is something that a lot of the jet I do she did it in false awakens with her Yeah, and then right before right before she got blown out Obviously she had this moment with kylo where they were going back and forth with like the three frame fades just like in the old one So, I mean they did a little bit. Yeah, they didn't say oh, I learned how to fly but I don't know maybe she didn't learn maybe she just Learned it right there and then kind of like how ray figured out how to mind control the daniel craig storm Christ that was a mess too. Um Well, hey, but it's but it's keeping it in line where maybe you just learn force powers It keeps it keeps in line with the idea that force users can just spontaneously learn extremely difficult techniques But that doesn't that flies in the face of the OT Fair enough. She's a Skywalker. I mean, I wasn't bothered by her Flying honestly. I was like, you know what? She's a Skywalker. Maybe she just has that much latent force ability Yeah, I mean she has figured out You know for 30 years you're hanging out. You got some force powers You might spend time trying to let me know that um again, you know that jjs said Outright that she's had zero trainings in the time between six and seven jay shut your mouth. I just If it was me and we it was like, what is the quickest fix? I would just have a quiet scene between her and Fuck we're running. I need it to be ray, but we can't do that. She's not there But maybe before ray had left see this goes back to force awakens. It can't be in TLJ Unfortunately, maybe they're on a calm device or some shit, but she if if ray is like I can't get through to luke Like something's wrong The layer could be like talk about the time that we spent together talk about how he taught me Blah blah blah and how he could teach you or something in the last movie at the end She says, you know luke will teach you like he's taught me or something like that Yeah, yeah Have a nod to it like like ray is like did he teach you and she could like smile Totally fair would have been cool. Just something so we can go. Oh So what I wonder what layer can do. I wonder how that'll pay off and then we see get I think the moment was stupid just on the face of like Unnecessary it didn't accomplish anything other than being like, look she can fly. Okay So you could have just had her get knocked out or anything else I always assumed that the purpose of it was to get hold of in into the the admiral chair because it would have been layer Yeah, but you could have had that you could have had her just get knocked out by the blast Absolutely. Maybe hold on there Hold on never would have destroyed that star destroyer if I'm not gonna make the argument that we need it to happen because we need another thing to happen By the way, that's the other thing about hold on not telling po the plan. I've said this too many fucking times I'm getting tired of it, but like Seriously as soon as po learned that he called fin Told him what was going on it cuts right to dj sipping on his coffee just listening Who's obviously Dude, it's it's fucking po and fin No, it's fins fault po It's got nothing to do with po po has no idea what's going on the other end It's the point is he's telling people and it's getting out. It's supposed to be the secret Thing that they're escaping. Well, it's not supposed to be blur remember what happens when he's told the actual plan He says this will work Well, he says this might actually work meaning that he would have been on board. So isn't that just a bad call from holdo? Yeah, I mean she made a mistake. Yeah. Yeah, no I think she was making a mistake in that scene where billy lord is like What are we doing and she's like just steady on you're supposed to say oh, she's fucking up right now But she redeems herself by sacrificing herself. I mean This is really not much more you can do to try to redeem yourself. I mean, she's dead You're not going to hear arguments against for us to fad the holdos. So You you got It's like she really kind of knew that he was dangerous impulsive like she said to him, which he is What twice already I was gonna say he's not What what what gives you the impression that he's a hot-haired dangerous pilot It's the fact that he just the fact that he turned that calm off with leah and disobeyed her and just went Okay, let me ask you this what from tfa supports it because my argument would be it's invented for tlj Nothing which is why I love what tlj did to post character because they gave him flaws in the force awakens He was so pitch perfect. He's barely in the movie was that he consistently makes the right call when necessary All you need to do to give him a floor perfect His okay, so his like core character trait is that he's an amazing pilot Right, so like all you need to do is have him put in a situation where there is no piloting and he can fuck that up What they did was try to make it so that his leadership in terms of piloting or Organizing a fleet was flawed which I think is essentially a contradiction Because he's been amazing, right? But but then again, it's it's the kind of contradiction that I honestly was really glad They did because that character just needed some dimension and force awakens. Let's put it this way I would be more on board with it If they'd actually done it in a way that made sense as in make it his fault make him fuck up in the film I don't know that he makes any decisions that I disagree with He didn't think when he turned Leia off you you weren't like oh I mean that's that's that's a that's a petty choice, but it doesn't change anything that he did in a grand scheme. He just ignored it Yeah, well, I mean they did blame him for getting the bombing. Yeah, which is he saved the entire fleet He saved the fleet by doing what he did. Yeah, he gets no appreciation for that. Yeah Yeah The character needed to be told about his flaws, which there were And I'm saying I agree, but the way in which they executed it similarly to what we were saying about the themes like they It's clunky. They have all these ideas I think I think one of the commonly said things by red lair media was that like it's all about how they executed it It wasn't it wasn't that they have bad ideas. It wasn't that all these things couldn't happen Visibly the idea that luke Has forsaken the jedi and become uh like sort of anti jedi like I'm like, yeah, I'll watch that story But you've got to really execute it well. You can't just Make it arbitrary, which is what I feel like they did with a lot of the elements to get there that one time I mean like what else do you think is is poorly handled but Sounds good on paper ray basically Falling for kylo. I think the him killing han should have had a hell of a lot more of an effect considering your reaction in tfa Well, she's so forgiving. She's willing to see the light in kylo It's like she's she's even better than luke luke was ready to turn on kyle It's the one thing that I actually really liked about ray's character was how much she she cared when they she brings up It's the one part that I say like daisy ridley's doing a good job is when she like struggles to say Why did you kill your father because of how much han meant to her which by the way? I think there's a problem there, but if we accept it that han solo was a father figure to her for whatever reason Uh, she gets over that really quickly in favor of um And that but that's ray's lesson that that was ray's mistake of the film is falling for kylo Trying to even just talking the kylo. Do you see the connection here all of these mistakes are just Happening that's the whole point of the film. They're these characters needed to learn And you can only do that by fucking up the whole point of the movie is you you're not going to learn How to win against kylo and snook and all these guys Learn is not to fuck up. That's not the only way to learn In this film it was the message and it was pretty damn consistent across all the plot points I thought the whole conversation we've been having was how it's all inconsistent Oh, I think it's the opposite of the message itself. I understand But the way they've delivered it has so many problems in each of the mechanical elements Hmm, you know like how does how does po grow by fucking up? Because by the end of the film when you see okay, so When he sees luke out on that battlefield and he says that line where he's you know quoting hall though We are the spark. He's distracting us. We have to save ourselves. This isn't about luke fighting And this is about us getting the fuck out of here. That's the moment where he really becomes a leader How does that what he's done in the past? It doesn't it strengthens his character It it makes him really likeable. But where does he fuck up before that he fucked up the whole movie How where yeah, but we just told about how old the choices he made That wasn't a that's a totally would you not have committed to a mutiny with what was happening on that ship? I certainly wouldn't do it. I would absolutely The the fact that the mutiny was it effective is another topic because that's I agree with you It was so dumb the way they do the mutiny. However The act of mutiny is not a mistake in this scenario. I absolutely would have been on his team Even though leia wasn't on board with it. We didn't know that he doesn't matter. We didn't know that Yeah, but lay was in the coma before holder was introduced When you watch the movie a second time and you're aware of Where it goes and what hall does intentions were and what leia's position was you start to see the characters don't know No, i'm just saying the first time you see the film you're along for the ride You're in the shoes of po you're pissed at hall dough. You're in the shoes of ray You're pissed at luke actions that she takes and the reasons why she attempts to justify them They don't make any sense. All right. Well, that's your opinion. They don't change on a first or a second viewing And like what could po have done exactly? What could po have done mooring morel What po what should po have done should you just sat there? I mean, I guess we're gonna die You mean in that first scene when he talks to her and he's like what's her plan? Everything from the moment he meets holder onwards. What should he have done? I don't know. I'd have to I'd have to think about each scene But my point is that the best thing you could have done from what we know is to just do nothing And we would have been fine But the fact is that all the information he has which is the information she's controlling She only allows the trickle of very small pieces of information all points to destruction Everything points to everyone dying So he has to do something because he doesn't want to die and he doesn't want everyone else to die And that's her fault Yeah, but it's like Again, it was really good that he didn't do anything and at the end his whole lesson was let's not do anything Yeah, but that's Finn wanted to go fight Finn was like let's go Wait say that again. I'm sorry that what you're doing is you're taking the results of something that they couldn't have possibly known beforehand And using that to rationalize the decision based off of what the outcome happened to be how so give me give me the example We what you just said about the mutiny He couldn't have possibly have known that things would have turned out a certain way based on the information that he had The rationalization can't be well if he would have just acted irrationally Things happen to work out. So that's justification and it's not I'm not even following. So the the premise of the argument was uh poed made mistakes We're arguing that he didn't make a single mistake in the movie Well, I don't know. All right, let's put it this way if the characters thought he did So I definitely agree with that. Yeah, if she thinks he made a mistake, then yes Absolutely. Her being Leia doesn't give her freedom from not making bad decisions You know what they did really cleverly putting her in a coma because if she had been on board with holdo's plan And not telling po po would have been like Leia. What are you doing? And she'd be like just just trust that Just she didn't even say that holdo didn't even say we have a plan and we're not telling you what it is But it's going to save everybody if she had done that I'd be true but I hate to sound like uh, whatever the fuck that term people like to use white knight I hate to sound like uh, whatever but po was being kind of aggressive to her and he was kind of like This is a life or death situation. I think he warrants being aggressive. He didn't respect her. He was like Life or death situation for the entire resistance and because he's being a little snappy You're just gonna not tell your your ex fleet commander the plan No, he got demoted. It's not his right. So what what is it captain? Captain don't get to know captain don't get to know the survival plan dude. I don't dude You don't know I have no idea I don't know fucking clue who's allowed to know what and this is fucking star wars. This isn't like what does that have to do with Anything factual like oh this captain knows that who knows first of all, there's no one left This is obviously like an emergency situation. There's a whole shit. Admiral holdo is now the general In a way. She kind of got like demoted am I wrong? Like this is There's no time for pose fucking bullshit. She got to know the plan I don't think it was bullshit. She became the general the whole the whole crew is like, oh my god We're all gonna die You know, you know how much harder it is to do your job when there's a gun pointed at your head So it's kind of nice when somebody goes. Hey, don't worry. There's a plan. Everything's gonna be fine She didn't even say your whole just have hope just keep smiling Said your whole crew is there at their terminals being like, well, I guess we're all gonna fucking die Why even do my job right? I don't even know this isn't the greatest You're gonna fucking hate this answer, but Maybe she had a feeling that he would get on his cell phone and blab to someone I mean, I know that's not good enough, but Yeah, but he did that You have to talk about you have to bring that up. You have to just have her go I think there's a spy. I gotta be quiet. Yeah, I think I think that we could Apply a large patch to this this wound if she had just said There's theories that there is a mole aboard But then the question is does that go again mentioned in the feminist world that they're trying to put in a lot of people made that argument It's not even in the movie Not even a little bit at in the slightest of ways in the like like people said she obviously thought Poe was a mole and the counter is one no lines, but a mole in the movie and two She actually likes it's possible that she just thought he was really reckless and he was gonna You know let it slip or you know, I don't know what he did that was reckless But the moral is he told Finn he got to do it No, that was post post Post the decision not to tell him anything. Yes, that's what it was before that that was reckless The thing that got him slapped by leah What was that that he did that got him slapped by leah? Well, if you remember hold on even taken out the drug Dreadnought that wasn't he saved the he saved the entire fleet. Yes. Lee's right in the she slapped him Do they confirm in the movie that they needed to take out the dreadnought or they were going to get by? The dreadnought's cannons. Yes The the cannons can fire and aim and fire at the radice at a very significant range Meaning but they needed the bombers to take out the cannons. Is that what they said? Oh, the cannons were already taken out That's why I I thought that's why I was like, okay, we're done So there's these mega cannon things that blow up the base and they're about to shoot the red at the bottom Yeah, those so the film is telling us those things can destroy the radice meaning at very large range meaning that if the dreadnought had come with them when they did the The the ambush then the radice would be destroyed Yeah, why would leah call them back? Is she's just an idiot? This is this is the thing so you say that leah slapped him and by virtue of leah slapping him You believe that he's done something reckless as opposed to leah being wrong Yes, and leah was wrong. Oh, no, it's possible. She was wrong. No, that's a great point Yeah, it's it's confirmed that leah was it's totally possible that everyone in this movie at some point was wrong That is totally possible. I see where you go with that. We're saying that specifically in this point leah was wrong Po didn't do anything wrong in the movie. I don't think so. No, but in a way, maybe it's like Okay, saying po didn't do anything wrong in the movie. I mean that's Arguable, but you gotta like you I don't know you're just not seeing it from the the female characters points of view They think he's wrong They have a decent reason to think so. I mean he did disobey his boss I Everybody in the resistance. Let me say this publicly. I would hope you disobey your commanding officer if they're planning on murdering you There was that shot where leah looked at her screen and saw all the x-wings were gone and she lamented So the alternative is everybody dies or some bombers die. So if you're a general Maybe the bombers are more important Bomber what I'm joking The bombers are more important than everything. I just don't know what leah's plan would have been if they didn't take out the dreadnought Was it just to go fast enough to not get hit by the cannons? Well, they couldn't have gone fast. That's the thing I don't know. I know I know they were trying to stop it from destroying the base that was on ducar Because that's what it was really that already happened like a hey How come at the beginning of the film they didn't shoot the ratus before? Oh god Yeah So liam just warning you like we've only been through like 30 percent of how much this movie We're not even we haven't even reached like act two. By the way, I really want to know do you guys like I'm just trying to get like a better perspective on how much you hate the film like you don't really need it I we're just talking about film stuff. Do you think that the film has some good elements? But like plot holes ruin it most you just think none of most of what I love about the film is superficial So like I love the visuals in a lot of it. Yeah I'm just a lot of places. Um, there's a couple scenes that I like I like the ideas really don't like the the last 30 minutes just Everything that I do I'm gonna I'm just looking for myself here. I just really don't like women or minorities. So yeah Um, like we haven't done it all white people, but create is like perfect Yeah, what we did to kanto bite We're gonna be doing to crate too because crate is a pile of shit For writing a pile of red shit. Yeah, but visually it looks pretty cool You know the red on white. I like, you know, let's talk about the snook getting murdered I want to know why you say that and the black. I almost died, which would have made the movie better Wait, what did you say? Oh, are you? I don't know if you're I hope you're joking, dude I obviously joking. Come on. He's he's baiting me. Don't fall for it. Lee. Don't fall for it. I'm I almost did I'm not quite great. He was a good time. You're funny. Okay. So snook dying. Mm-hmm. How do you guys feel about it? So I I'm okay with snook being killed. It's that I needed the information on him. That's my take on snow Gotcha the way he dies Um I guess you'd have to so there's there's one question of of how the hell he didn't see it coming Because he's supposed to be like the most powerful being in the universe Um Think I could answer that I believe it or not I my answer my counter-argument to myself would be oh well He was sensing kylo's desperation to kill not specifically who Right and he was so blinded by his cockiness I mean he really thought he had kylo by the balls and that kylo would do whatever he wanted because he probably did train kylo And thought that kylo needed him and he didn't realize that Kylo was fucking way stronger than snow. Don't you think that he was a puppet master? In the first one and the second one they make him this affluent over the top like I'm the best I have all the best things. I'm super smart and powerful person Snoke yeah, I I think in the in force awakens. He had zero personality And I think he was right Beyond the fact that he clearly wants to stay far away from the actual shit that's happening He's the puppet. That's what I mean by puppet master But he's like in the thick of it here. I don't understand why he even needs to come, you know, like why is he there? The way you could almost say luke is like the reverse of that I mean he's kind of like the puppet master who hides on this island In what way is he the puppet master? I'm not he's not pulling anyone strings, but he's using my tricks to stay out of the fight. Well, no, he I'm just saying he's a puppet master. Oh, how well, I mean not like a puppet, dude He manipulated kylo. He he fucking was So fooling somebody else doesn't mean you're being a puppet master. I'm confused. What is he fool kylo with? Yeah Oh, he makes him think he's there. I guess the apparition makes him think he's physically there at the very end But that's not controlling anybody else. That's just I'm just making no, but he's using his mind tricks to Manipulate, I mean that's something else that you could argue was an issue How does kylo not recognize he's using the lightsaber that he just destroyed? Same same reason why why snook didn't know kylo was going to kill him He's so blinded by his rage for luke that he is not blinded is really convenient, isn't it rags? No, it's just this is what happens when you have clients. It's realistic Dude when you client pleads insanity. It's dude. It's it's honest like when you have a character that is that rage filled He's not gonna see straight It's the ultimate defense of anything that anybody does Like and this is no slugging to you early, but the top defense I have for any action kylo takes is It's supposed to be that way. None of it makes any sense because he's just angry I'm okay with being so mad that he's not good. Are you saying that's light saber color, you know Yeah, dude, I didn't notice that I didn't notice the lights. Um, I would I would argue that I don't think everybody would However, kylo is the one of the characters that absolutely should he wants that lightsaber If you remember in the force awakens, he's like that lightsaber belongs to me Is he? How does he know that, you know, maybe luke scowalker built a new blue lightsaber? It's the same one dude the same one I would The second he starts fighting him does he look at his hand like oh, yeah, that's definitely the same one Do you think it's a stretch to believe that he would look at the lightsaber? Yeah Knowing what weapon they have is important Power could be starting to make him the same lightsaber again All right, well looks just like it Kylo's a dummy. He he was stupid in that moment How many parts are there for a light? Maybe he goes, oh luke made a very interesting the same looking lightsaber from the one he used to You want to we can jump into crate if you want because I just I just like the idea that real quick We will but real quick. Here's why I love the snook scene that whole scene Like the build up to snook getting cut in half was just so well done I mean you see kylo sitting there the saber flings back towards him. It spins around. He looks at it That probably gave him the idea to turn the saber and kill snook It's just so well done and kylo's poker face that whole scene You have no fucking idea what this guy's gonna do. He is really playing snook really well. It's so fun to watch Why did he kill snook? Yeah Dude, snook fucking abused him. I mean the the beginning when yeah, he fucking zapped him with lightning and Fucking made him feel like shit for killing his dad and not being a man about it I mean, you know, he made kylo feel like like he did that for nothing I think because it wasn't good enough for snook and He should have anger towards snook. Plus. He probably blamed snook Kind of like he blames luke you created me you fucking fucked me up and see so and also wouldn't it be great to mention To have sit and always kill their masters They're not sith unfortunately and this is something I've come across. I referred to him as sith and I got a lot of like They're not safe. There's no I don't know how to classify it for you. I I have no idea what they are, but apparently they're not sith um So following the rule of two doesn't necessarily follow but um the His animosity towards both luke and snook on his anger tools. I'm like that's something I want to see Beyond him going you will beat him by a girl and then zaps him. It's like Yeah Yeah, no, I I hear you. I haven't even seen why kylo's always like snook Like why did kylo even connect to snook? Maybe he just didn't he just thought snook is more powerful because the dark side is more See how you start that sense. So maybe because we haven't got anything Fuck fair enough. Yeah, like I have ideas of what's going on, but it's given me nothing So I have to like make up in my mind. What's going on with snow? But what is luke like yoda? I shouldn't be at that point two movies in I should have some idea Why does luke like yoda? Why does luke pursue yoda? It's like we can answer that question all day You've got so many references back while I'm training baby. My point is that the film has given us so much to work with Gotcha. So you're saying you wanted kylo to like Flesh out his relationship with what we saw a little bit more What we saw were really great payoffs in the grand scheme of cinema But uh, I'm missing all of the the legwork that makes them powerful for me All I see enough I want to know was kylo was he actually working for snook? Was he always planning to betray snook? It's no tune him doing training with luke because that's the implication. No change his mind That's a great question that I think you're supposed to be asking because luke Well, no, it's a gray area was luke seeing kylo's actual future was he actually already turned Or did luke just doing that saber holding over the bed? Did that create the future he was seeing? Was he creating that future in that moment? And I think the fact that you don't know is really strong I don't even know what in the future we're talking about Do you think kylo becoming a tyrant? Do you think it follows that luke may have created kylo in that moment by threatening him with the lightsaber and thus kylo murders the other students? That's why it's such a mind-fuck and Did luke, uh, yeah We agree No, but like, you know what? I mean, it's one of those things you keep thinking about did luke start this or was he reacting? It's very much like what anakin did to padme inadvertently killing the person you love by trying to save You've got you got no hope of it making any sense if he was a good guy up until that point because again Murdering a bunch of students and maybe that's a good reason why we didn't see anything before Wouldn't it be at least wouldn't it be great if he had animosity towards those students? We saw him training with them and they all insulted him for being weak for being slow for being unable to understand the force and then Over time is getting bullied as his dad nothing as good as his mom the only voice that's supportive because his mom and dad A distant and luke is is harsh with him because yoda was harsh with him like that that's going on The only voice that's comforting is snokes. Snoke just keeps talking to him through the force every night and kylo just slowly Turned that's the story that would make the sequel trilogy so much more powerful if I actually knew who kylo was Gotcha, I mean I can't really argue with that But you know when I first saw the force awakens and they revealed that kylo was han sun I was like what the fuck this is unnecessary. We don't need this guy to be his kid This is too much But then when I realized where it was going the fact that yeah He couldn't be this evil if he wasn't their kid It's like it really paid off really nicely and kylo is now responsible for all their deaths I mean, I don't I was going to ask you guys. Do you think he knows that leah is dead or not because he There's nothing really to say that he knows she was in that base at the end see and that suggests to me that you see it as a really interesting sort of Yeah, because in his mind He's killing everyone my take was it was a waste the idea that uh, we don't get to see his reaction because leah and kylo That's something I can see But now that's a whole other thing that they can they can do that in the third one We know she's in it. It is possible. They're gonna have a moment. It's possible. I'm not you know, I don't I'm not saying let's wait till the ninth one. It's gonna all make sense I'm just saying it's that that is something that you don't need. I don't think to have crammed into tlj It was about kylo and luke. That's where the the flashbacks went That's where the film ended. How long were the flashbacks? They were short and you know what? Don't you think it's very obvious that they had three flashbacks all the same scene instead of giving us No, that's that's a very common thing in film. I don't remember what it's called, but it's like, yeah If it doesn't work, whether it's common in films doesn't matter if it doesn't work I agree with you guys in that I think the flashbacks should have been actual flashbacks with like dialogue and you know A scene like yeah, that would have been awesome. I'm I'm totally on board that great For the luke vs kylo lightsaber fight. Honestly, that's what I was sure Sure, I mean we got like a second of it, but yeah, I need their conflict. I don't it doesn't have to be lightsaber fight I just need their conflict There you go. I mean for me When he killed snook and I saw that body cut in half. I literally screamed out in the theater I was like, I think I said slice and dice or some fucking Oh, dude, I'm sure the whole theater was like get through my I mean, I was like over the moon because I I really think that the last Jedi Was made for the star wars fan that really did not want a repeat of anything And was just so down to fucking cut this snow guy in half. What about all the repeats? Yeah, he's a corny. He's like an emperor palpatine clone. Just get him out of here. It was great I mean really thank god they fucking killed him off Seriously I mean in that way in that scene it was just so well And because you you want kylo to do that you're like dude slight this fucking guy in half already he's treating you like Shit, he wants to kill ray. He's got to go I mean, that's why do I want that guy to kill another bad guy? What I don't know why kylo was attached to him the first place if that's the only way he's treated him this whole time It's like Yeah, he thought he was more powerful snook was kylo's path to being this powerful Maybe if you didn't have I liked when snook wore a bathrobe and sat on a chair That was that was sexy, but you know and then right after that When they when they're fighting together ray and kylo the first time I saw the movie I was just like where the fuck is this going in a good way. I felt like my mind was just shattered It was like I did not expect to root for kylo at any point in any of these movies and here I am I'm rooting for this guy. He's rooting for Why exactly exactly that's the power of this film's right. They actually made you They made you like the person who's supposed to be Yes, you didn't like kylo and he threw people into a shredder those red henchmen. You didn't think he was the Oh this poor henchmen It was nice. Why do I want why do I want kylo to survive to clarify? I think kylo is now the villain The implication is that we're not supposed to fucking root for him No, but in that one moment in the middle of the film all bets are off and you think you're gonna start rooting for him And thankfully no, you don't he he goes back to being the villain. I was actually a little worried I was like, oh fuck is he just good now, but nope sure enough. He went right back to being bad and that was great Wait, it's a fucking crap shoot with kylo Love it though. It's so unpredictable What a character just is bad and then he's good makes bad, then he's good That's kylo force awakens like veto it changes It changes the way it's flashing out what the force awakens did the same thing Yeah, literally changed up the weather when the sun went down He became bad. It's like he's dead. What remember that in tfa? Remember that fucking scene in force awakens when the the the light in the Planet gets eclipsed and then he stabs han you didn't notice that so he's like a vampire Okay, I guess I like it I don't know But no, um, but to jump to the I think we've covered snow, you know, but uh With crate, I mean that that going into that scene. I thought luke was gonna Fight kylo. I was like, oh, we're gonna get a duel. This is great And then when he put that saber away and started apologizing It was like 10 times better and then when they revealed him to not be there. I fucking started clapping. I was like, oh my God, dude I don't know I don't clap in a movie. I don't clap it. Yeah, I'm not seven Get into it. Nice and dice. Yeah, brother Fucking hey, there are other people in the theater who want to enjoy the film. I'm not seven years old I don't clap for Star Wars theater with me. You you gotta you gotta just get ready. I get go hard as long as it's not like opening weekend If there's like five guys and they're fine. No, no, this is midnight. Yeah You know, so I guess if we're talking about crate, you mentioned how much you didn't want these films to copy the old films And how you want to get them their own thing Yeah, I just saw them post like I just I clapped I clapped when I I clapped when I saw star wars I clapped dude. I'm a clapping fool ATS T's I'm a straight up clapping fool. No, I mean, I wasn't like, you know If when I saw force awakens and the the blanket came off of r2d2 like like one person the theater clapped I'm not on that level. I mean, you're you are Yeah, that dude's that sound like it Well, maybe not r2d2, but when you cut open an old man who's just sitting there in a chair that gets him hyped Um, so So Crate had some fan service. There was this great moment where I also jizzed in my pants where the Millennium falcon goes into the mine. You hear the tie fighter music raise at the at the gunner position It's just pure fan service in the best way ever. It's like a medley for a shot Yeah, they use the music they use the visuals that they just they use all the stuff we've had already That's a problem, but it was unexpected. It almost came out of nowhere. It was like, yeah, almost like it shouldn't have been there Yeah, no, it was fucking great. You didn't like when the tie fighter music played. You really weren't excited Can I reflect that question back to you? You didn't like it when the star wars did the star wars? No, honestly, like that was such a Needed moment because I love it when star wars to star wars I like the story was the millennium falcon when I saw the millennium falcon. I clapped. I recognize that It wasn't just that it's the millennium falcon. This was a medley dude. Kylo sees the falcon Ship you're recognizing the song No, no, no, there's a lot of elements mentioned the tie fighter music specifically You're picking out one thing. I'm talking about like 10 things. Yeah, the whole scene You're picking out was filled. It was a star wars medley. You got Kylo wanting to blow the falcon out of the sky That's fucking great. Let me ask you. He's reacting to old shit Why do we like it when the The ending in episode six happens when they they approach the death star wants to shield it down Is it because of the music and the visuals? I'm not saying that's why this scene is good. I'm suggesting that that is the presentation But the reason we're so invested is because this is the heart of the the empire These people have just been in a half hour long Spaceship battle where they're in a kill box and they've survived it long enough to now enter The hole itself we've got they're being chased by the tie fighters So the stakes are still through the roof people are dying as they're going through the the track the the area to the center of the death star It is phenomenal. I absolutely adore that bit to then Copy it paste it cut out the narrative for why it even happens and just have the visuals and the music It's actually insulting to me Okay, I mean I Yeah, did you just say like if you take out the plot and it's just visuals then it's bad Is that what you just said? I said if you copy and paste what is an iconic moment in the other trilogies without with forgetting why it became iconic Then yeah, it insults the original scene itself. I do not give a shit if you play the music from the ot It does not make your movie good That's not why I like the scene. It's what's going on in the story. Kylo wants to blow that piece of junk out of the sky Fucking love that line because it's his father's ship. It's reminds him of his dad that he hates I mean, it's like all the stuff is coming together in that moment. You know, we're we're getting chewy Coming to the rescue Dude, who knows? Because he's Han Solo. You think I'm gonna be like dad of the year Yeah, I'd love to have one If we sold that relationship wouldn't it be cool to see that relationship? Why better than uncle? It's you're right. But but because we didn't and we were just given that one scene where he fucking mercs Han That had a lot of fucking impact because it's like did it that's the only mom I didn't think it had any impact at all because we don't know anything about their relationship Is it is it impactful because that's Han Solo getting killed or is it impactful because of the relationship between those two? That's the only scene where you even see the relationship. So that's why it's It's like you're getting this thing that I agree with you I do want to know about And that's really all you need to know Han was gonna abandon Kylo. Leia fucking told him to get go in there and give him another chance He knew that his son was done. So it's like You and Han knew that that was a bad idea, but he had to do it because just like luke He had to try to plant a seed in Kylo's heart That makes it exciting when his kid wants to blow up his spaceship Dude, it's just a great All of his he sent all of his tie fighters and everything to chase that one ship And remember there's like seven and for some reason there's only seven tie fighters even though yeah for whatever reason They managed to save all their 8080s This contradicts something you said earlier where he said maybe they only have four so we can prove they at least have seven And that scene. Yes, they they had more It's a different scene The whole parade hits Were those in the previous parts of the movie? Yes, you can see them in the background because they're in the supremacy Yeah, yeah, but they weren't being used It doesn't matter why would they use them in space combat? So you're saying the AT-ATs should have been used or yeah, I don't get the point you're trying to make Why why aren't there more fighters later? It's so simple. They're established to exist. Dude. Did you not see the supremacy get ripped in half? Maybe they lost a lot of their fucking shit. Hello. Do you understand? Do you understand how big the ship is? It has hundreds of thousands of personnel That's not even an escape The tie fighters we saw were after the ship destroyed They're after that Rags' suggestion is we saw seven after it was destroyed therefore before it was destroyed and we only see four Would you like the scene more if there was 20 tie fighters getting shy of ray have more kills No, no, that's not at all what we're saying That's what we're saying. I thought ray ray was killing them too fast. No, yeah She gets a triple kill on her first shot with a gun turret that has she ever used it before Do you guys like action movies honest question? I like good action movies You're gonna get mad that the hero is hitting enemies. Are you kidding? It depends on the movie. It's a stupid schlocky action movie. Yeah, they can kill 100 She just got her fucking ass handed to her. I wanted basic some semblance of reality. Where does she get her ass handed to her? Dude, kylo Told her parents were drunk. That was your ass kidding. She saved him. She killed all the guys She was the badass in that scene and she also beat him in the force fight. He got knocked out The throne room she saved kylo. They saved each other ray was doing horrible at one point and kylo saved her then When does kylo save ray? Uh, did you see the moment where she like couldn't even get a hit on one dude and kylo was taken? I saw the moment where she counted three of them at the same time. Is that the Yeah, she gets one and it hits three people, but what's the moment where kylo saves her? I still don't know what's she about it. By taking three guys at once durr. How is that saving her? Three guys at once. What movie were you watching? Uh, I counted dude go back and watch the scene. No, he's not He's not saying this. I think it's pretty obvious. I've seen this movie a lot more than you guys I like it. Obviously. No, you haven't answered the question yet. What how does she say? How is fighting the guys by fucking fighting if he wasn't there? She would have gotten all those fake disappearing knives. I understand the confusion. So when we say Uh, she saved him what we're referring to is she throws him the weapon that saves his life She really just asked me when did kylo sit? He killed fucking snow So What we're talking about the fight. We're not talking about the snook bit He's saving her a lot in that whole sequence. I mean, I thought you just argued that he didn't even I thought you argued that he did that because he wanted to kill snook not to save ray anyway Well that If snook was about to murder her then you might have a point, but it was kylo's choice to murder her anyway Yeah, that was all on kylo suggesting that kylo saved her from him self Dude, he saved ray because he honestly because he wanted to use her and because he has a fucking heart on her But yeah, you you're supposed to think in that moment Kylo is helping ray. Oh my god. He's good. Then when he's like take my hand. We're gonna kill everything You learn. Oh, he didn't kill snook for ray. He just did it for himself. He just wanted to take snook's place It's like it all makes sense. It's just he killed what he his motivations are evolving because it just works Kylo should be a mystery. You shouldn't know exactly where this character is going You should be inconsistent with every scene. It's not inconsistent. He's what should we know Should we be a mystery is that I don't know kylo is fucked up I don't know why kylo of all things needs to be a mystery because if you knew his next move He wouldn't be an effective villain it'd be it'd be corny But I could know what his move is I don't know exactly how he's gonna get there, but I know what he would I would like to know what he wants Why he would make a move I don't even know what the exact move is. He's not a good villain What does he want you're not right? We don't know villains don't have to be one track. That's boring Does anyone say that? Does anyone have any tracks? He doesn't have any tracks He doesn't have any tracks. He's off the rails. Either he has zero, he has no standard motivation Really? He has no motivation. All he says is that he wants the past to die and that means nothing And he doesn't have any motivation. Yeah, he wants to leave it all behind and he wants the past to die And then in the next scene he's leading the first order like what is he What does he want? Dude, he's contradicting the things that he does. He needs to be a mystery There's no contradiction there. Yes, there is he he wanted to have this thing with gray Whatever arrangement you want to call it once he found out that she wasn't down He said fuck it. I'm gonna I'm gonna do this instead. I'm just gonna be a straight up. See exactly He contradicts him. No, this is the character. It's the same thing that luke did to him He feels like he's being turned down and every time someone turns him down He just becomes more and more bad just straight bad. It's like it reminds him what what his fucking track was Oh, i'm bad. Let me go back to that He's bad He's bad as his motivation. I'm trying to explain it in a way that you'll get it Yeah The problem is no matter what he's evil. He's mysterious and that's about all i'm getting I'm angry. Don't get angry. The mystery is the fact that you think his motivation is one thing and then you learn it's another You think that what do we think his motivation is? What was his first motivation? You think he just wants to do this for rey when he's when him and rey are fighting those guards A part of you is thinking oh my god. He is saving rey right now. He's doing he's killing snook to save rey He is good. I never thought that All right. Well, I thought he was just like close to my mind I thought he was trying to take over Yeah, that's what I thought well, that's good because that's what he was trying to do So where's the confusion? Oh, I thought he was trying to do the other thing That's how some people some people could think that but it doesn't matter because five minutes later You know that that's not the case not not to mention the other contradiction being that that's not what he wanted He wanted to leave it all behind and then raise dismissal made him go to the thing that I thought was the thing the whole time Yeah, no he right, but he Dude his like you got I don't know what you guys are even talking about We're just paying attention to the movie, mate. We're just going by what he says and what he does You're not British. You don't have to use that word Uh, what mate what word mate? How do you know I'm not Australian? Sound like you are I want to I want to be on your side. You don't sound like it's fringy Kylo to have a motivation which you seem are you really Australian? Is he actually Australian? So fuck yeah, why are you saying that? How do you know? Yeah, we we've already proved the point I I just I know that you you think Kylo has a motivation. I really wish you were right Let's put it dude, even if he doesn't that's good. That's his character I like it when characters don't do anything for any reason Oh, he doesn't do anything really I said for any reason Lee. Oh, he doesn't have a reason We don't know what the fuck is we don't know we don't well you're describing his motivation If you think that he has a reason that that's motivation the reason is look at him. He's fucking evil He's fucked up. He's tortured. He's been if that is the only motivation That's in his mind possible motivate He's in his mind. He has had this life Probably where he's you know his laos son and the nephew of luke This probably all his expectations and then he gets corrupted by snook and luke Why the fuck wouldn't he be motivated? All you just assuming stuff. He doesn't state any of this the movie doesn't state any of this That he had a grudge against luke because he thought luke corrupted him That doesn't know the second part student. He was never said He doesn't consider himself corrupted. I don't think he's he's because luke might have tried to cut his head off, but uh I mean like like a misunderstanding if any whether whether he knows if he's corrupted or not I I don't know. You're wait. How could it be his motivation if he's not aware? I think it's very possible. He's aware. Did you see how he was acting in that last scene? Did that look like a guy that like is down with luke? He looked like he wanted to slice his fucking head off That's not what we don't disagree with that There if he wanted to leave it all behind, why is he even there? Yeah, why doesn't he just leave it all behind? Yeah Because he only wanted to leave it all behind because he thought he rey was gonna be with him Why why does he give a shit if rey's gonna be with him or not? Why does he want to be with rey? Why? He loves her He's in love with her That's not a thing. Don't think he's in love with her. Wait, when did that happen? No Why would you even assume that? You really don't think that he has a hots for rey? Of course not. I don't. He's joking when you said that So rey and he's kylo rey. He's probably never had a date in his life. He's probably suppressed Say this like it's a fan figure I in Dude What was the prequel trilogy? What was the prequel trilogy? Are you going to use a different relationship as evidence that there is a relationship here? Yeah, I'm gonna say this goes right in line with star wars. It's about relationship It's like how dark vader was trying to have sex with luke skywalker. It's the same No, because right exactly because shubaka and bb8 have a relationship because that's star wars Yes, everyone has a relationship. That's what star wars is about. That's what I saw Even there's no Any any illusion to it. No scenes that would imply it. There is no dialogue that implies it. It's star wars So it's probably true. Wait, there's no dialogue that implies. What? But they're in love kylo is in in love Are you guys watching the film? Did you not see me the line? Give us a reference. Give us a reference. Go That's the closest you're gonna get to them. Fuck. What just give us a reference The I've touched plenty of women. I haven't fucked or the finger touching across spacetime. It was an intimate moment, dude. Come on Don't ignore what's right in front of you You don't think that touching was intimate moment. No The filmmakers even said this is the closest thing to force Sex scene in star wars. You're gonna get I think ryan johnson even said that is support there. They have chemistry How do you not get that chemistry? They do. Oh my fucking god Really, I I would be shocked if ray. Does ray have emotion at all? They have they have a lot in common They connected they were doing this force skyping thing because they're both lost and you know, why doesn't know she should Look up to luke kylo doesn't know if you should look up to snoke. They have something in common And and in that scene where she's covered in water Like in love with each other. That's not what I got out of it Well, it's not fully there yet. I mean they didn't kiss but all the way To check in your prediction for ray low. You don't think that there's a ray. There's not a ray low movement going on You know People are certainly interpreting it as a romance or a fucked up. They also interpreted fin and pose romance That was ridiculous. Oh, that one's ridiculous. Okay. Oh, but no, but that's what I do think that's Yes, that was the dude. Do you remember the ot where there was a relationship? Uh, yeah, it's called vader and luke The fucking driving force of the second Guys guys guys guys you're literally not even listening to him. So I said it's about the relationship and The family dude, dude, you're literally ignoring parts of what I'm saying because it helps your argument That's okay, but what I said was an argument Dude, it's the okay the prequel trilogy and this one are more about the relationship the man loving the woman And it's abusive and whatever the ot was about the family drama The father who was abusive and who abandoned his son and was a piece of shit But he had unconditional love for him because he said the last Jedi was all about family It has a lot of family in there too. That's the thing. These are driving themes in the all the movies It's about family to to show you it's a fucking space opera Which is another word we've listened soap opera in space said kylo was in love with rey and your evidence was they touched fingers And the story of star wars is about relationships. He's into her man. He likes her. What I'm suggesting No, I'm not on her team. I'm going meta. What I'm saying is we have absolutely listened to you're giving us barely anything to work with I'm I'm giving you barely anything. What more do you want? Yeah, you told us their fingers touched dude. We need more than that Wait, oh, wait. She was also you want to see the fucking we want to see them say Uh, no Love is love is a little more than sex dude. That would be something I was about to say Han and Leia don't have sex in the ot but they absolutely love each other Yeah, but I can give you references for that beyond the touching fingers This is a romance between two jedi one good one bad We've never seen anything like this in the main in the movies And it's fucking original. It's really different from the the original trilogy, but it has a similar theme You think the original one luke and vader are the most interesting thing about that storyline They just are but when you hear i'm your father that now has become the most interesting thread We all know that and at the end of return of the jedi when luke and vader reconcile It's fucking great because that is the main thing that is driving those movies is the relationship between them episode nine The main story is going to be ray and kylo That's just where these movies are going and if there's not a romance then maybe it's like a rivalry It's something but he feels rejected. They're in love. It has to be a romance right dude. It's okay. They're in love. Fine They're not like, you know jack and and uh Rose from titanic, but so at the end of at the end of the last jedi when kylo is You know kneeling down picking up the dice and he looks up at ray and she shuts that door in his face That means I am Rejecting you you're done. I'm closing the door on you and the look in his face It's just pathetic. I mean you almost feel kind of bad for him because he really was like a bitch for her in that moment and You know if to think that that doesn't set up for any conflict in the next one I mean come on it. I think he wanted to be like, you know, like partners with her, but I think that's that's totally fair. That's totally fair. They're in love. It could have been either one Okay, fine. It could have been either one You could interpret it as there's a romance and you could also interpret it as no, it's not he just wanted to work with her They're both valid. I'm not arguing with that at all I there needs to be something to support the idea that he's in love with her and there's just nothing there You know what people had this same conversation in the force awakens. They said, oh Why would kylo take off his mask and talk to her maybe as a thing for her? This was been a subtle thing. I mean didn't she challenge him? She said your creature in a mask and so he took it off Yeah, yeah, but you know Then when she sees him the look on her face is like surprised. It's almost like oh That's just her resting face My suggestion would be that it's it is surprising. He's a little boy. He's not an intimidating 50 plus year old man There is a Tiny Tiny little amount of sexual tension in that scene. There just is the way he's touching her He's right up to her face. He's being all creepy. He does that to Poe Yeah, yeah, but it's different with Ray. How you can tell he likes her as soon as he it starts out as he fucking hates her When he hears there's a girl he yanks that guy over and chokes him. It's like what girl It's like he like he feels inadequate and now in the second movie There's this little added twist that no he just wants her on his team. That's fucking great That's actually what exactly what the character should be doing Because she's incredibly powerful. She beat him in the force awakens. So and in that scene he was like I can train you I mean You know whether he wants the boner or not I mean, it's it's not even relevant, but there are people that interpret it as a romance. You can't argue with it We're not arguing with people interpreting it. That's literally what's happening right now See that that's that's the best thing about this kind of shit is there isn't one answer It could be either one. I hope they do harp on that a little bit more in the next one But right now it is kind of left open and that's a good open episode nine. He just holds you down and starts touching all her fingers They could have him say, you know, I never had any feelings for you whatsoever. This is just I'm just using like yeah, of course Why wouldn't that would be fine? From anything that's happened And she'd be like, well, I never liked you either What would you say about that though? Would that be distraught distracting for you because you're like Not at all because no because she saw the good in him and luke was trying to tell her you're seeing the wrong future Like he is bad. So he is bad. Well, no, but maybe no, no, no We're talking about kylo loving ray if they don't follow through with that an episode nine Aren't you going to be a little bit distraught because you would just like 20 minutes ago saying it's like obvious that he loves her Well, if they don't take that plot any further It would be a definite misopportunity because like you said, they they didn't even cement that there's a Romance well enough if you're really not seeing that. So yeah Then it should be in there. Yeah, I think it would be a missed opportunity if they just This leads to a good question. What is your ideal episode nine? I don't have you don't have anything in your head I don't go into beast. No, dude. I don't go into movies with like this is what I want to happen I think that is the last thing you should do when you watch any movie and star wars. I'm sorry It's the epitome of the thing that people know exactly what they want to see already. I'm not saying you guys did that You guys don't see You know some themes you want to just define there's something you want to see in it. We just did no no no I said, I want to see played out. There's relations. You have to take the story further You asked me if they don't continue it. Well, I'd be disappointed. What do you want to see continued? What do you want to see continued the ray and kylo romance? Definitely Okay, that's really it. I mean, that's that's the driving force right now other than that. I don't care what they fucking do It doesn't matter. It's all good. I'm on board with these new characters. I'm invested in them at this point I like po I didn't like him at the end of force awakens. I thought we shouldn't go Hang on you opened our conversation today. We're saying that people want people want episode nine to play it safe And you said that's absolutely not what you want, right? And that's not what I mean No, I don't have any expectation about specific things like a luke better come back and fight cut that that stuff is specific You know, but if you say that that's something you do not want then there are things you want No, no, no, I don't know what I don't want. It's not I don't That's not how I go into surprise. Okay. Yeah, I want I know I'm not saying you guys are like these You know packing fan theories when you walk into film. It doesn't sound like you're that type of uh person I'm just saying No, this is what star wars fans It's star wars. We haven't had a star wars for a while before the prequels It was a really long time people had a lot of time To build this thing up in their head of what they want to see happen And I really believe that that's coming in the way of people enjoying these films I mean was the reception to the force awakens really positive though. No a lot of people thought it was echoing a new hope Yeah, dude. No, yeah, but I really liked it. Then yeah that film got overwhelming praise. Oh, yeah It got way more praise than like overwhelming praise from audiences. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah You just said a good second ago. They didn't No, dude people didn't like the movie also. There's plenty of people that are like jj ruin star wars, blah, blah, blah I don't think rags are saying everyone likes it I'm not. Yeah. What do you what are your exceptions? What do you believe the overall reaction on average was to the force awakens? I think Sure, I think at first everyone loved it and then like as months went on people started hating on it, which is Maybe you two were ruined it, right? I mean Lee actually criticized I think the force awakens is riddled with flaws. I I will harp on that till no end, but oh wait You all don't like women or minority. I'm curious What are the flaws of the force awakens that do not the there were characters that were just weak I thought hux was weak Snoke was weak po was weak Uh The scene with the wrath tar you you think kanto bite had no purpose. What about that fucking wrath tar scene? That was so Wait, wait, wait. What's a wrath tar? We knew the characters were going to make out of it make it out of it The big testicle monster things Right the floating testicle And then you had this tie fighter chase which some people think is like the best scene in the movie I thought that scene had zero stakes on jack who man. She sure can't fly really well Wait, we nearly there. Why doesn't it have stakes? You just it's just I don't know it just I knew they were going to make it out It was so early in the film. It just felt like this You know, I don't know but I do really like the film force awakens is a great movie despite all the problems It still manages to be awesome and that's a feat I thought your position would have been that it wasn't great Absolutely not. It's really great. It just There are things in there that I don't love like the whole scene where han and leah are talking to each other and it's like You know, we should have never sent our son away. That's when I lost you That's when I lost you both. It's just it's like a soap opera Are you? But wait, you said it was a soap opera. You said it was a bad one. It's not supposed to really feel like a soap I mean, it's supposed to be one in disgust. I mean if you had to reject the characters That felt like a straight up like it was plucked out of the guiding light or something It just was like base opera is not a reference to soap opera. By the way, there's a different opera opera Yeah, but what do you think a soap opera is a reference to It's a bad opera. All right. So what is the relationship to Why do we call them nurse sharks? That's I can't believe you're missing a point but move on move along. It's a nurse shark. We can we can jump on the crate It's a nurse shark. It's it's not actually a nurse It's a shark His point. It doesn't matter. Uh, we so the first thing I think that we should go with cray odds Is do you have any issue whatsoever with rose saying? Uh Fight fight for who you love rather than what you hate That the execution of the execution of that little little sequence I don't have any Big problems with it. No not at all. No, it's cool. So the idea that Finn was trying to destroy the weapon that was going to obliterate his entire faction Actually completes his mission. He loves him. She's in love with fin. Yeah, maybe, you know, she was being selfish But but the the line itself right the movie is trying its best to deliver that line And it deliberately shows the laser completing its task in the background. Don't you think that that's a 100 percent contradicting I don't entirely disagree with that. I when I first saw the movie and I saw fin going into that Fucking cannon. I was like, oh my god. This is incredible if fin dies right now This will be great because it's so unexpected But the fact that he didn't it's like, okay Obviously, he has a big role in episode nine and he needs to live and that's even more, you know It's just giving you something to look forward to this character had to grow He didn't need to live. Well, do you think he's any time any time a character lives? It gives me some Happy about it. I kind of hear you. I thought it would be cool if he died But I also love fin and I'm down to get more of him. He's he's hilarious. So it's like it's a double-edged thing Um, but he's a goof. Oh, yeah He's a goofy. He's fucking great. He's very fun. He's the fin Come on Least about fin is like, wasn't he a battle trained stormtrooper since like birth How did he become so clumsy comic relief? That's what it's like. I'm done. Did he Yeah, but hasn't he been trained? Like, why is he such a goofball? I was actually Yeah, that's on the false awakens. That's not on the last Jedi in fairness But I agree. Yeah, that's a little silly. Yeah, it's a little unlikely I'm using because I'm we're definitely attacking the logical elements Well, I mean what I just said was kind of the hematic element um The way at which rose baddages to get ahead of fin to 90 degree turn and knock him What's that about? I don't know man. It's it's a little he had the faster glider dude. She had the good Like do you get how someone would be more broken? Don't you think someone would be insulted by that because they're like that's not possible Yeah, it's it's she must have been really stepping on it But then again, he was in a laser and probably being pushed back Do you like that the 8080 stopped shooting from the moment that the last person died from them and The the scene was kind enough to let them do their emotional moment about the pressure Didn't even notice it didn't even notice it and how the 8080s just stare at them while they're talking about the aftermath in that crash It's just yeah, okay And how Finn manages to drag drag a floppy corpse all the way back to the fucking case They don't just blow him up when he's right there in front of them. Do you realize how do you feel about rose Basically not asking Finn for consent. Just pushing yourself on him. Ah, come on now I don't know man But what if the roles were reversed negotiate consent in that situation? But what what if the genders were reversed? She doesn't even ask. Do you like me? Can I be your girlfriend just puts her mouth all over him? Yeah, she knows a little presumptuous Yeah, a little bit sexual assault people have gone down Well, I mean there was the actual assault of her ramming him, but there was also She was a little aggressive in that moment Didn't I mean it's a good thing luke just happened to show it up or else rose would have doomed the resistance Sure is a good thing luke showed up to save the day sort of Do you like that you showed up and he revealed to lair that he's he's a ghost subtly Which is quite cool and c3po apparently recognized it too However soon after a post says look luke got in here somewhere. Let's find an exit and lairs like yeah follow him That's like lair. You know that he came in here via ghost powers I'll be honest. I didn't even catch that that luke told her that I didn't even get that It's the look She gives him a look and I actually liked it. She knew she was like, ah, he's because she knows that's why She leaves the dice behind because they're just ghost dice You're saying very cool. Yeah, I mean, you know, but I just find it funny that she's like Yeah, kids go and look for an exit from the ghost that came here via ghost powers Yeah, I did give her ghost dice though. Like what it is. Yeah, especially ghost dice that represent the relationship between Hadid his ex-girlfriend You know At least you get to hold it for a minute. Is it right? It's it's about han's relationship with his ex But they were friends. They were cool. They hugged what enforce awakens They were fine You have a problem with the dice. Yes Oh god, it's it's really disrespectful to lair to had to a token of han's previous relationship, dude Didn't have another one neither It's true Wait, who gave han the dice originally was it that he had the dice he gave them to kira when they lost contact and then 10 years later Whenever they come back she gave them back to him The only contacts we've seen those dice in solo character. It's just So you think it's disrespectful. Okay. I mean, I I'm gonna go with how laia felt about it. She seemed to be okay with it. So it would be She has no reason to like those dice. That's not true. Maybe she's happy to see a totem of han She could be just You know, it's like han's dice, you know, I never That would have been funny if she was just like wait, what are these I never know this is These two dice represent your bottom and top half connected mechanically I don't know It's the drive shaft from the millennium falcon han solo loved it. Oh, okay I gotta be honest. This is the first time I've heard that that point be made that laia should be offended at the dice That's no, I don't know that she should be offended. She should be fucking confused. She should be like, why the hell are you handing me these giving me this This if anything it should hurt it should be like, thanks, man That's the thing I needed when thinking about all the things he could have made apparate The dice. What was better than the dice? I mean, I don't know Hell dude Like actual nothing if he wouldn't have given her anything that would have been better than the I don't agree with that. I'm sorry I think it was nice. Do you think holding a hand wouldn't have worked? It's it showed that he cared about han's death. He was sorry that he wasn't there to prevent it It was just like a little like, you know, I'm sorry about han's previous relationship. I miss my friend too Dude, I don't know why you have do you think han had like a bunch of chicks after laia or no We're going from that movie that came out solo. Yeah, we're going from the movie that exists Yeah before laia that was like way before he met laia. That was a whole point Yes, that's the point. Okay. I got you. So so kira should have been the one to get the dice Yes, if anybody should get the dice kira. Absolutely should get the dice. That would actually make for a nice moment I'm not even good. Han have not even had the dice on the millennium falcons. It was not argued Binder of the that's true kira kira should have been the dice receiver. Yeah I'm gonna assume laia. I'm gonna assume laia does not know anything about kira. Let's hope Let's fucking hope or at least does not know about the dice Christ if she doesn't know it Hey, here's these dice and like us Yeah, if she does know it's god damn it Imagine if face if she knew she'd like looks up a loop. Yeah, you know, isn't luke thinks he's like doing like a good thing He's like what? I hope you die Luke's like these are the dice you guys always used, right? They represent Right held in her hand the whole time I always saw han looking at him so lovingly. I think he really liked these dice And he always used to talk about the special woman connected to these dice and I knew that was you And she's like, all right, I get it luke shut up. God. That's funny There's a whole movie there like the love triangle like kira comes back into the story I think the flaw with the dice is that it might have been A little too obscure. I mean a lot of people that are big star wars fans were just like what the fuck what were those? Well, that's because they created the dice and then afterwards they tried to give them meaning I was gonna say I think that's what they were hoping for the people assumed They were a nebulous element of the falcon, but now we know what they actually mean If they were a nebulous element of the falcon, it would have been fine Hmm. Yeah, it's like a Yeah, they're just they're just hanging in the in the cockpit. I believe that's all they were Let me ask you guys this on them to be weird alien dice Here's a flaw. Here's a flaw that a friend of mine brought up recently that I can't really argue with Do you think all that grime on the walls of the falcon would have Appeared after the time span between solo and a new hope what grime? Oh, even just deterioration. I don't know Yeah, like it's all white and then in the new hope it's like brown yellow stain Maybe chewy was just covered in mud all the time and he was leaning against the wall. I don't know It's an outdoor vehicle Right. I mean, I think it's a good contrast between Han and Lando's character. Han Lando Lando is very flashy And we obviously try to keep his spaceship in perfect condition. Yeah, I'm mostly okay. I hope they don't ruin Lando see capes What do you mean? So what do you guys think about uh, Luke like, you know force projecting and the twist that he wasn't there and that he didn't fight Kylo, what do you what is your opinion on that? Pointless I think it would have been more powerful if he was there Yeah So You don't like the sort of Message they leave you with that, you know, the Jedi message. It's the Jedi powers should be used for defense not attacking except when you use it to attack It's the execution Luke didn't use it to attack. He was purely I didn't say Luke did Uh, but we've seen several examples of Jedi using the force to attack Of course we have and and that has been good, but that's not the only thing to do I mean, don't you think it's cool that they actually Because dude like do you think it's a new idea to use the force defensively? No, I don't know. That's the thing. They cemented it. That's been a theme and now Luke is the one to hammer that home But we knew that from the Yoda save The two is too is too Jedi in in attack of the clones by force holding the uh, the thing that count who could drop Instead of pursuing dooku. He used it defensively Don't you think if Luke fought kylo, it just wouldn't have made sense Like he felt bad for holding a saber over him. You think he's gonna fight him now It's not a point that he got reinvigorated by yoda and ray No, the point was to go forgive yourself for these mistakes. Then you're you're killing yourself over this You know, they need you to do something there Yeah, I thought that that's what it was gonna lead up to I thought luke was marching on that battlefield to fight kylo and the build-up made you think that was gonna happen And that's why it's so great It was so meta. It's like you're getting this indeed settle for a lesser alternative. Yes It just made more sense with the plot that the force awakens laid out I mean if luke is really gonna be absent for the events in that movie Then this was really like just it was just the most honest thing to do with luke, you know just to Put him on this island. He could have gone make him throw the saber off the cliff You think he's gonna let han get killed and then take the saber and be like, okay now i'm down It's it just that whole thing was kind of in character. Yeah It would have made the force awakens It would have cheapened the it would have made the force awakens shitty a lot shit because it's like why the fuck wasn't luke just Yeah, why wasn't luke here then? I'll be there like again kylo cut off his fucking other arm and he was you could have yeah You could have given him a good reason to be out there. We gave like four or five earlier But i'm sorry those are you could also have a reason You can still have him had get a reason during the film's progression for him to go back Like hey leah is in danger your sister that you love she's in danger and he's like oh crap I need to go save her because i'm a good person and i'm established to be luke skywalker a character Who would do this? That that's the messianic So he thinks the way to keep everybody safe is to Be by himself because then kind of he after anybody else Well, yeah, right i mean he feels like he is responsible for all of this and if he would get involved He would just make it worse and if no luke would say if i did something i need to fix it That's what he does he does fix it by the end and it's so impactful because you have this park If all of the times he said no i won't at the end he sort of helps yeah If the whole movie was just him being like Already badass and cool doing the right thing from the beginning there would have been nowhere for it to go He would have had to been like stabbed. How do you know? How do you know that it would have there was nowhere for it to go because Because why there you could take it somewhere, but it's not going to be that strong of an arc as if he starts out down in the dumps The way that they you've walked out pretty quick. So no it wouldn't go very far It would go like an inch it would have gone as long as anywhere It could have gone the possibilities are endless with so we just keep luke badass and cool throughout the whole thing And he never changes he doesn't have to know you don't have to because I remember luke has already had his arc Right, he had a better arc in this one develop. He had a better arc in this one. Then he did the original trilogy Yes, absolutely. What was his what was his it was better because it was condensed into one film and it's We took one film to see this guy go from Total fucking loser blames himself. He's a hermit sucking the milk out of space tits and by the end of it He's the man and it's so much more impactful Because he had that Redemption I just wow dude because are you because he learned he had a lesson the character out of flaw Thank fucking god Are you unironically pulling a long man bad that i'm like come on dude loop arc in this movie Yes, it's great Yes, we got nine seconds of a flashback. That's way better than the original trilogy I strongly believe that what they did with luke was so Fucking good that it's what the character deserved luke deserved some development He deserved to have dimension make a mistake Learn from his mistakes. These are things that characters and films do if he was just perfect Like you think luke skywalker is it would have been boring. There'd be no drama. There'd be no Real interesting thing for his character to be perfect He's never perfect. He was reckless an empire I want to inject it straight into my veins because you are living in a blissful magic world What do you say? What an absolute fantasy world. What do you what do you mean? Some magic crazy place where you saw this Star Wars movie And you collapsed dude. You guys know that like are you a troll? You guys are aware of that like I want to be there This is a character you're playing right are you guys aware that a lot of people liked this film? I don't care. I do read the positive reviews So why are you even talking to me then? We invited you here So you could attempt to well for starters to try the point dude I want us to know I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. Yeah, but then you told me that luke skywalker is art In the last is good. Yes Is better. Yeah, I believe that I don't give a fuck if you guys think that's silly No, it'd be a death. That's fine Dude, it's a it's a strong arc. He really changes in this movie. He goes from He goes from a guy that's almost the antagonist Science fiction stories of all time and you're like, see it's about an old man and he lived on an island See now you're now it sounds like You're you're having this messianic view of a character Dude the throwing the same or something consistently with what's been established. It is you guys just didn't like it Do you know that like luke doesn't have to be pathetic? Yeah, but thank god that he fuck it was it's interesting. It's actually dramatic. It's boring if he's just perfect We didn't suggest that this is why so what do you want that so so what so what i'm suggesting he be luke skywalker Yeah, there's no why are we? Come on. What was on luke about him? Tell me what was on luke about him the fact that he ran away from his problems for 30 years cut himself created Kylo Ren because he fucked up No, no created Kylo Ren Dude, he blames himself Kylo Ren he ran away from all of his problems And he let all the people and things that he cared about to whatever faith that they would and he wouldn't Come to help them out when it was established that they needed his help That's what we thought that's the polar opposite About what luke has been established to be. Oh, dude. He made mistakes in the other movies too. And you know, it's no no That's not the that's not what we're saying at all spilling water and me threatening to murder my family member While they sleep is two different kinds of mistakes I want to go back to me living in the fantasy world Do you guys really not know that there's a shit ton of people that think this is the best star wars film? What have we said that would contradict that statement? The fact that you think i'm like the only one living in this fantasy world If people love something as much as the people who love this film do love it Then it's obviously not the worst film in the world. Yeah, there are flaws. Nothing is perfect It's not a 10 out of 10 But god damn the amount they did right i'm impressed it could have been so much fucking worse Are there any movies that you hate and think are poorly made that are beloved? I just saw glass and thought it was pretty awful, but i don't know that's i'm just thinking recently Point being the i'm hoping to get you to say something along the lines of yeah, some films are bad and they still liked I saw bohemian rhapsody recently and i and i thought it was a bad movie that i like You know, uh matrix reloaded bad movie that i like like there's a lot of shit that i know is dumb But it's good last shed eyes not a bad movie that i think it's a really great show when somebody points out a flaw in a film You'll never say oh, yeah, but i liked it as a response, right? Because you know you know now that that doesn't make any sense as a response No, i always say that dude you're allowed to like a film but think it as flaws and you're allowed to hate a film But no that's literally what he's just trying to establish How do you not understand? So how so what so how am i living in a fantasy world now? Oh my goodness well when when when you make references to things that never happened in the film or or claims what didn't happen Like the freaking kylo being in love with ray that never happened Tell that to the fucking legions. I don't care who i have to tell her It's a thing you can interpret. Yes, it's not in stone. They don't say i love you, but it's a theory Dude in force awakens. You just said it's a theory that supports my whole point Oh my god, dude, who gives a fuck if you asked me, dude, you asked me for the one who asked Dude, okay, listen to my answer then in the force awakens people thought ray was luke's daughter or whatever It it it may still be it may not be but that was something that you could argue is in the film You could also argue that there was No, you couldn't have to alluded to her. Okay. Well, whatever people did so No, that's no then that's wrong. You can't build as a foundation your argument something that's blatantly wrong All that to the people that have these theories The theory existed that mace window was raised dad and it's like that. I don't know. I I don't care what your theory is Nothing this supports that we don't care what the crazy theories are It's subtlety something can be in a film and you can debate it Okay, you know what? It's a good example the ending of taxi driver you ever see that movie No, the ending of the film is that travis bickle survive I did a video about this on my channel travis survives according to the filmmakers But you can very easily interpret that ending as travis dying Yeah, and the whole whether or not is a is a is a replicant as well these things exist But we're your referencing doesn't exist Dude, it's possible that it will we have to see with the third movie. There are hopefully inception There is evidence supporting and decrying the idea that he's still in a dream These are things you can prove with references what the things you've been referencing are not provable No, you can't use as evidence the fact that there might be evidence in the future for Yeah, I can what do you mean? Of course you can't dude. These are things that are not fully answered just like My evidence for the fact that unicorns exist is that in the future we might find evidence for unicorns existing Okay, fine, but don't you think yeah, I know fine I know because i'm right because that's not how arguments work You have to follow these things. Don't you think it's don't you think there are some times where maybe you can't like fully make a judgment Like oh, that's definitely not in there. Maybe it is it could be I do you justify my believing in it. I won't believe it Well, okay, you know my stance on ray being a nobody I fucking love it. I was hoping for that I think it's really relatable They could very easily undo that and it wouldn't be bad. It would all right fine. You did another twist There you go. Okay. I don't see what the relevance is Yeah, rag you disagree with that the relevance is you could still argue that it's in the film. Kylo tells her you're a nobody Yeah, okay No, no, no, there's a difference between evidence for a proposition and no evidence against that proposition being true Do you think there's no evidence that kylo and ray have a thing? I don't see there is any evidence for it. All right, fine You said Kylo was in love with ray. That was the claim Yes, there's no evidence for that in the film and maybe I was you know, uh, what's the word hyperbolic? Yeah, maybe I was blowing it out. He definitely has something for her. I mean come on. He well something can be anything That doesn't help. You know what fine we can see there may be something there may be something there might be love You could interpret it as I wouldn't go there. Is that okay? Is that better? You could interpret I'll happily concede to something but love is way too strong Okay, but you got I mean like Dude, how often do you guys spend time like listening to reviews of people that like the film? Have you do? I went through like 50 plus of them for my video Okay, but I know you do but what about you you do Vita? We covered plenty of the on eFap Right. Okay. So so why is anything I'm saying such a shock to people like this shit? Well, the stuff The arguments you've made today haven't I haven't heard yet matter. Yeah I've heard the argument that none of these things matter I've never heard the argument that Luke's arc is better in the new film than in the OT It is. Sorry. It just is. Sorry. I know that's a fucking strong. I'm not saying the movie is better It's just the character It's just true Dude, the character has a I liked it better. All right. There you go. I'm just curious. If you look up in a textbook You're not gonna find. Yes. This had a better arc. I like it better. Yes. It's my opinion Do you just like it? You're not saying it's like true We're talking about opinions here. Nothing's true. Your opinion's your opinion. My opinion's mine You can't say this is better than that. No one can argue that last Jedi's a better film than empire strikes back That's okay. That's what I was aiming to to find out. I think I think I don't think this is a better film than the original trilogy If that's what you thought I meant by that. No, you can never top those. We didn't say that I just really like what they did with luke. It was unexpected. It was exactly what I Like when I was watching the film and I saw him throw that saber Another moment I wanted to clap for it just made perfect sense It just it was just perfect It exactly went in line with TST. I I agree right exactly All right, I think that was a good conversation I can't believe it took three hours Time flies when you're having fun. Absolutely Uh, I need to read all of the super chats And I don't think we're gonna be covering any videos because It may be an e-fap Early next week because I can't do one post that for a while like a week What is wolf gonna be back around wolf is free on monday and tuesday, so i'm pretty sure that's how we're gonna set up but um That was the First full-on debate. I think we've had on e-fap that lasted that long. So it's beautiful. Beautiful. Are you serious? Not for real. We've had I don't know if you call it a debate. What happened with tRO would you rags? It was more of a I would I would say Um, I don't know if I'd call it a debate. I think it was no, I wouldn't call it a debate Yeah, we've had we we have disagreements in house But we haven't had uh something something of that caliber and I wonder how people are gonna find it It'll be interesting to see what people think because it could we could do Do you ever do debates where there's more than one person who disagrees with you or is it always? Well, we disagree with each other a lot so a gang bang Not that I have a problem with it Uh, well, this is the first time this has happened. We've never brought someone on To uh, right because the thing is dude. It's really hard You were the the the first time me and waltz ever tried to debate someone who liked the lj They we nearly like made them cry. We were very like close to being like we felt like really Yeah, we didn't it's not like we were loud or angry, but they they got very upset very quickly So we were just like, okay. We'll just we're just gonna stop. Um, we did talk to just right at one point Was I was I that bad or was that better? I think You'll never be able to be worse than the worst of the people we covered on you. So yeah, I mean, I'm never gonna convince you guys You know, that's the thing like I Yeah, and I know I'm not no don't give yourself more credit than that It's not I know I convinced I I made fun of mauler and like a tweet once but aside from that I have absolutely no problem With oh, yeah, you did. I forgot about that. You said, yeah I just thought it was a little gloaty and I I I'm sorry about that. You know, it was rude Well, dude, if you pass Any milestones I would encourage you to celebrate because it's a really awesome achievement regardless of well I wouldn't say regardless of what can't you make if you like fucking recorded people's murders or something I'd be like, maybe that's not something to celebrate but Um, yeah, I it was a hundred k a hundred k is really special. That's a pretty big deal. Yeah, it's a big deal I I I was out of line, you know, I I read it and was just like look at this fucking guy Just just saying oh man my hate for this movie really I know I know dude I I If I could take it back, I would but I'm not It's out there and it's all good, but no, I really have no problem with you guys and uh I know i'm never gonna convince you guys and it's it's all good with me I just you know, just know that there are really a lot of people out there That think that this is the best star or something. I don't think it's the best But But I will say this uh, you have a lot more balls than a lot of people who won't even talk to us about it Like jack saint and eric tax and like they won't even Wow, you guys are cool We are pretty cool You insulted me a little bit called me a child, but it's all right. I still like you I mean surely that that's just uh, it goes both ways, right? We're allowed to throw insults here and they Yeah, dude. I I really strongly recommend you buy battlefront. It's fucking cheap. You won't regret it at this point You won't regret it. I I guarantee you that I won't be able to forgive myself if I spend money on it It's gonna be like I hate that i'm enjoying this any fun that I have after that It's like if I fucked my mom it would probably feel good physically But I probably there's a lot of baggage Jesus that that one almost killed me. Yeah, go ahead. Uh, if you want to sort of It's gonna be tough, but I I think that you like challenges Why should people subscribe to your channel sell yourself to my audience? You you shouldn't I'm sorry. I'm still choking. Hold on a second Oh, man Oh my god, thanks for my microphone Man, that does sound very good that joke about fucking your mom like maybe choke It's just it's a very it's an appropriate analogy Why should someone subscribe to my channel if you want to see something truly idiotic? I got you. I got you bro. I got you well No, I just like to have fun man. I like to make jokes. I like to make fun of people that I think are being silly in this case I thought the you know the People in my last Jedi video just seemed like a really good comedic opportunity. It just seemed like easy material I was like, all right. These people are clearly clowns and I don't know I just like making fun of shit and uh Yeah, let's just leave it at that Yeah, um, we uh, I was gonna say it's it's really up to you now because uh, what we're gonna do for What will possibly last like an hour is I'm gonna read every super chat that came in Like during this check. I mean shouldn't I be there for that? I think that'd be hilarious I was saying it's up to you guys if you want to stay if you want to I use the lube really bad. So I'll be right back go for want to see what these these guys are probably like Dumping on me. Yeah, let's definitely look at this. We'll do it. So I'll let I'll let veto give himself a little bit of a plug too. Then we'll do that There's no way you're there's no way your listeners like Think that I came off good in this. I'm sure they were just like Everything I said they just probably bounced off. Um, you know, that's okay. I don't I don't I would say they should go see your full take I think that would be fair to you Full video that explains all of your points, right? I actually think this conversation was better, but oh there you go That's just I'm sorry. I appreciate that I think we covered more ground than I did in the video. I mean by far Don't you just like yeah, if it was a fully supportive lee audience I think they would say more rags and veto care way too much for the things that don't matter Like all the logical consistency in a film that is literally about space wizards. It's insane. And then the reverse would be Lee clearly likes the film despite all of its flaws that that would be the kindest take I think on both sides of the argument Yeah, I mean look you you could say I'm a forgiving passive, you know, you could say I'm like, uh Whatever like I settle for less good things. I'm not gonna argue with that I do think the film is definitely above average. It's not perfect Uh, but you know when the prequels came out, I feel like there was a pretty solid amount of universal hate for them and You could really say the same thing about this. It's like there's a pocket of people that love it So it really can't be that terrible. It's you could you got to apply this to those movies too. It's the same series but You know, I mean, I don't know you guys have heard plenty of Both arguments. I'm sure aren't you guys sick of talking about this movie? I'm actually not at all. They won't let us. They won't let us. Yeah, I'm not an infinite infinite I can't remember the last e-fap. We actually talked about star wars now. It's been a while Oh, that's cool. Okay. So I I'm sorry to bring you back into the ship. Oh, it's all good I I like talking about movies and writing. Uh, we have plenty of references to other films there We we got to talk about some things I hadn't heard of in terms of argumentation So it's all it's all like a running machine for the brain. It's a nice little jog Get yourself right on dude. And you know, I I also apologize because I haven't seen the Video where you guys destroyed me so so to speak. I mean, you're gonna have to go in with a very open mind because Come on. Wasn't this like the same thing? I mean, I Was sure that looks different. I will I will say I think that we let's just say that your video Uh, it doesn't rank anywhere near the the worst videos we covered because We thought your argumentation was really lame But uh, you weren't as malicious as some of the people we've covered as in like interesting Well, a lot of people who are their goal isn't to discuss. It's to sort of defame Yeah, like a lot of people said, you know, Jonathan Macintosh Okay, see, I don't even know that you can take that as a plus Yeah. Hey, I know I definitely appreciate that. Uh, but you know, it took me like three months to notice that you that you did that because all these people started Contacting me being like, oh, I'm all are just fucking Fucked you with a knife. Oh, damn dude. Holy molly. Well, we never we never encouraged that People were like, he fuck you you got you got mauled and I said, okay I'll bet I bet I did because I like being corny and I like being over the top and and my my humor is so easy to Make fun of I get that it's I do that on purpose. I mean, I know that the things I say are idiotic It's it's it's supposed to be that way. I mean, dude, like I once went on a weird rant in Final Fantasy 15. I don't even remember why I did this but like It just gets weird. I got to keep that character consistent though. You know what I mean? Like That major Lee he he he's uh, he's he's a bit weird But you got to keep it up. It's like you guys said you want Luke to feel like Luke, you don't want this Let's take Jake Skywalker or whatever people call it Um, and yeah, just so it's so I've made sure I've done it You obviously will stay we've still got potential hour left, but veto Why should people subscribe to your channel? Well, first of all, I'm the king of Star Wars criticism. Uh recently surpassed mauler and subscribers because I'm that good No, but uh, if you like talking about Star Wars, obviously I have Pleat cinematic failure Which uh, people really like people found it very funny almost about to hit five million views. So Ice it's not as long of a long form critique. It's like 20 minutes long I think it's a good afternoon watch. I feel like a good chuckle And then I also do lots of dumb comedy stuff. One of my bigger videos was My pepsi video mauler. Are you aware of that one pepsi? I don't think I've seen that one. Oh, you haven't seen that one Okay, well, did you write your morning? I had to talk about pepsi Do you remember when Kendall Jenner made an ad where she was handing out pepsi? Yeah, I remember that It's the cops people So people think I'm saying like people Wait, wait people are saying You're a troll. Hold on. Let me read these comments people saying I'm a troll. How am I a troll? I really like the film trolling would be if I didn't really like the film and I was pretending That would be a troll wouldn't am I wrong Poor ryan. Yeah, fucking poor ryan people are calling this poor guy round head. You don't think I can't feel bad Have a conscience I'm gonna finish a sentence No, but you remember that ad she was trying to save the world by giving out pepsi cans Yes, and she was successful. I went to a I went to a berkeley antifa trump protest with a giant A giant peps. Well, just like many cans of pepsi and I was giving them to antifa and trump supporters And they started whipping them at each other and people were bleeding and dying in the street. It was beautiful I hate to say it, but that's probably the best use of a pepsi can Yeah, uh, so there's a lot of great footage of people getting hit in the face with pepsi cans and be being like I think i'm gonna go to jail at the end of this video Oh, well, dude, I gotta I gotta watch more of your content The sounds like it's slash veto the ito very sounds prime I did check out a lot of your uh, your movie reviews to take some like the dcu Which by the way, I don't think you have any legitimate arguments. You just a marvel fanboy, by the way Just letting you know Forgot to ask you guys that one. Well, the funny thing is do you guys like I want to know what you guys like Uh, we saw a really great movie yesterday. Oh, yeah, we watched um Anthropoids yesterday. Love that movie Never heard of it It's not many have. Yeah, it's not. It's not usually well known. Um, I liked infinity war a lot, but I think it's flawed I That was a good movie If you're telling me the flaws about tlj come on infinity war is gotta have some shit like that Absolutely No, like it's not it's I'll take it as seriously Well, the characters are pretty uh in line and that's the most important part for the storytelling Sort of system for me and obviously we disagree on luke but luke is the core of star wars for me He got fucking ruined a lot of people liked it man. I mean I I hear what you guys are saying I I get it man. I just get it but People loved it. So it's not that bad Um, but yeah, I was gonna say veto I don't have that problem because I shot on black panther and then I praised infinity war So people were like you can't call me a marble fanboy because it's like I literally just shot Oh, man, I did not realize how intense the dc fanboys are man. They were really mad at me People wanted to cover those films. I was like, I don't know the the Yeah, I just figured like how how can you defend batman vs. Superman with a straight face like really I know a lot of people who love that movie Because the well justice league their defense is Warner brothers didn't let zack snider Yeah, they want the snider How was aquaman it looked it looked pretty visually stimulating it was dumb as fuck It looked like a colorful like I should get really high and just turn my fucking You know what dishonor was working on a video for that. I would just say everyone check that out because he's passionately ripped into a Is it funny? Well, well, he hasn't done it yet. I'm just saying keep an eye Um, he's playing some strong editing choices for it. So I'm kind of excited Especially because would you guys think of bad times at the l royale? Have you seen that? No, oh, no, I figured it recommended though I really liked it. I mean, maybe I'm crazy. Maybe I'm the only one I I was like over the moon about it Yeah, that was one of the best movies I've seen recently. I also really liked, uh, That black mirror movie on netflix kind of kind of different and a snatch Oh, man, did you did you dig that at all or not? Not really. I played it with a friend. We thought it was crap It's such a mind fuck. I mean, it's a little silly the way they Kind of make it easy for you. Like if you fuck up, you could always go back But man, there's just the acting like that main kid And the blonde kid the dude who was in like where the millers. Oh my god, they were just incredible But I just watched Incredibles 2 that was a good time. Oh, dude I want to see that. All right I've hit a lot of bad things about problems in that movie. It wasn't perfect, but uh, it was it was funny That's cool. All this stuff with today made me laugh a lot What should we address in these comments or people will say I've got super chest to read now. So, um Yeah, go check out both these guys's channels. That was the point of that to make sure it's uh, mostly mine But what is super chat? So that's when if you can see the the things that are highlighted when they're posted They're like donations plus a message. So I've got the more listed here. So we're gonna go right back to when they started Oh, very cool. So you got daddy. I don't I don't know how anything works You should stream some q&a's or something on youtube. You should nobody would care There'd be one guy. He'd be out there. You'd be one dude be you looking for what to I'll just be in the chat being like You don't even know Uh, super excited for you guys to be back looking forward to it all this week My gf says I should be less excited, but who listens to whammin. Am I right? Wow That's fucking disgusting. Can you explain to me the whammin thing? I'm like, I know it's something sexist I just don't really know it isn't actually it isn't No, it's just coming from anything or is it just a fun? I don't get where to come from. I think pewdie pie started. He did the respect whammin Yeah, interesting. It's just like making fun of Cartoonizing someone saying respect women to the point where there's a respect whammin Dude, I mean, I you know, I genuinely think we should respect women. I'm not trying to be like I I genuinely think women deserve a little more respect. I think uh, You know, whatever. Well, I actually gonna be telling me you think they should vote That's just that's our that's my do you think they should be allowed to drive? That is the big question. No, definitely not Absolutely not Saudi Arabia Only if they're driving me around No, I don't know Literally the fall of what oh snap you guys gonna get to look at women. Well, you get to look at whammin, baby. Whoo Come on, you don't like looking at some whammin. Come on guys. Well only attractive ones Put those whammin goggles on this is something you won't get this is literally just for rags So don't don't question it if you don't understand it a majorly I just finished your fallout 76 video, but I was bored my third time watching it. So I had to leave a dislike Yeah, that's that is hilarious That's like a collection of memes across 24 episodes of e-fap What what for you? That's really good. It's it's like it needs to be decoded to explain that message to you It's uh, I just think it's funny It sounds like he watched the video three times and now he's bored. That's that's funny That's good. That's a good joke. All right, wolf have you played metro explain to me the other meaning uh For every three words in his sentence it references Something from a past e-fap episode and he's constructed it into a statement that sounds vaguely solid. That's the joke Wait a minute. Did I do that? Is that what this is? No, no, no, no It doesn't have anything to do with you. I'm sorry. You're just being used. You're like the indirect object in the sentence Yeah, yeah, that was a little misleading Uh, yes, someone said wolf. Have you played metro exodus? Uh, did he he hasn't played that right rax? I have not bought it. Yes. I probably won't buy it till it gets on steam. Oh, do you know if wolf has I do not know. I'm assuming he hasn't but uh, hopefully you can well, hopefully he has by the time the next e-fap comes on Uh, can't wait for it to return can't wait for return of the mystery box Yeah, that'll be a potential for episode nine got a the meme conduit you damn right, dude Make make a way and if you heard of Vic Mignonia Controversy Vic Menogna. Yes, I have. Have you not heard about this? No, he's the voice actor of many anime characters He was in the new dragon ball z movie And it came out that he at conventions has a habit of Getting a little touchy with fans who come to take pictures with him and stuff As to is what he did bad enough to be blacklisted out of the industry. Oh, has he been? Yeah, he lost all these jobs basically every every What he was working with got and people are someone it's a feminist some convention invited him to speak and everybody's Pissed about it. I forget which one And it doesn't help that he's like a hardcore christian either. So people are thinking I don't know. There's a lot of who is a conspiracy or whatever It's a complicated subject Um, hey leads you get to look at women You know, I don't enough which is why I loved it so much in the film. I don't see any women I I live in a cell like that kid in the stable I can't wait to look at women while drinking my rhino milk. I'm sure that makes sense That guy sounds like my kind of dude. Let's hang out Without criticizing this masterpiece about disney fanatical wizards intending intended for space rhinos bilba willams also look at women See, it's just beautiful. It's just memes Yeah, like again, that was a joke that I just knew Was stupid like you got it. If you watch my other videos, there's so many stupid jokes like that It's just that's just i'm corny, you know, that's that's just my humor We could probably expect a few more of them Oh, dude, it's gonna go it's gonna get worse. I mean the corn the corn is gonna just magnify That star wars girl has expressed interest in going on to e-fap any plans on having the first whammin on that would be the Second whammin we had second whammin had jay. I identified as one the other day, but we weren't on e-fap So we missed an opportunity there But um, yeah, we're always looking into other guests. The problem is I still have A backlog of guests. I mean it took a while for me to get from the first time I heard that you were interested It was you posted like a comment like two weeks It said two weeks ago on the thing that I saw I was like shit So it took ages for did you get did you get my actual personal like email that I sent you? I wasn't sure I need to sort a new email out because I get a lot of stuff. I didn't know you guys do I didn't know you guys were so game-centric We are I don't know people Do you mean e-fap on my channel or our channels? I'm confused because like e-fap We've only done movies mainly we've done a few game things and then we did the gaming one Why somebody dissing a vangelion and also dissing me that I It's interesting Uh, I know something Rose Tika was a security guard. How and why at the end of tlj was she flying a fighter? I thought she was a mechanic because she's a wayman dude. I thought Finn didn't know how to fly Why was he flying a fighter? Oh that that's an actual thing I was just gonna say to believe that rose can fly something. Yeah, I can We can believe poor kelly Murray try and dude. Can we at least feel bad for the actress? Can we at least for being I feel bad for literally anybody who gets You know Attacks like yeah, sure. I'll feel bad for I'll feel bad for anybody I'll feel bad for all the youtubers who get constant attacks as well Not even the attacks just the fact that she was this character. That's so many people hate. I mean, can you imagine? It's just a really badly written I think she wasn't the best character, but I I appreciated what she brought to the to the equation I thought she was needed Thoughts on the abomination known as the will smith genie Um the will smith genie that that shit looks hilarious Is this supposed to be like bad? No, I feel so bad for will smith this guy like He's too dislike magnet. Why because dude fucking after earth He got bright like critics are just dumping on this guy's films because they're no He's got more money than god. I don't feel bad I could still have after earth was terrible No, I'm just saying you put poor will smith It's not his fault. He shouldn't he shouldn't have took the role as the genie. It was a bad move. Anybody Would you guys think of bright? Everybody making the movies? I haven't seen it yet. I saw the first half of knowing when I got bored and stopped watching it Yeah, it wasn't bad. Like I really Appreciated the story. It was like this kind of interesting like middle earth meets crappy gang los angeles. I mean You know, it wasn't amazing, but going into the film knowing it had like a zero on Whatever metacritic like you can't know the famous line from that a movie moller. What? Uh fairy lives don't matter. Oh, Jesus What don't matter? What was the line? Will smith says fairy lives don't matter as he slaps a fairy out of the sky. I believe with a newspaper Yeah, yeah, the film had some ethical commentary That is yeah, that's some ove it Well, there we are I guess Hey guys hail the blessed pipe man, of course valentine day is gay It can be uh veto. My friend has a rey ayanami shrine and claims. She is his waifu Upon interrogating upon interrogating him. I learned that in the years she's been his waifu He never jerked to rey rey hentai is this fake rey fan or liar? I'm I don't uh Yeah, I saw that comment. Uh, yeah, if you haven't jerked off to rey, how can she be your waifu? So Okay waifu I mean unless you're like asexual and you marry another girl's asexual, but uh The primary They go ahead. Have you guys uh, you guys see that new dragon ball z movie. It wasn't bad. I haven't no Uh, I don't know. I mean, I haven't seen that. You know, I like Let me have a watch. I know a rape is the voice of somebody. So no It had a surprisingly good story. I mean they they really made broly like this this character that you felt bad for and uh Just seeing Goku and Vegeta banter is just always classic. They're like fucking Abbott and Costello I never saw the original broly movie or any of that stuff, but I do want to watch it at some point But in theaters that shit was not terrible Um, the primary antagonist of e-fap season three will be ryan johnson kathleen kennedy I think they're gonna be the overarching villains of the entire thing, you know Can you guys at least agree that Dave Filoni Should not take over lucas film Who's Dave Filoni? Is the guy that like he wrote all the clone wars and rebels. Yeah, he's like clone wars, dude That's like a big thing at this point I would absolutely take him as the writer instead of ryan johnson Yeah, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Maybe as a writer, but like dude I mean the guy doesn't have like films on his resume. I mean, it's well, I mean You could have told me that ryan johnson didn't die there and I'd believe you Yeah Poor round head ryan johnson only has a film on his resume because his parents gave him What don't you guys just make a movie? So don't you guys just want to give ryan johnson a hug don't you just want to he's been an ass Squeeze him and tickle him a little bit. I'll go watch whatever movie he puts out there I'm interested in seeing whatever he makes, but I don't want to make him get star wars trilogy and I have no idea How about that night? You pumped about that one No idea. What is it? I have no idea You talking about the trilogy now or someone else? Yeah, he's got a movie coming out. Oh Pretty good. I'm out. No idea what it's about Sighted but we'll say sight is a weird I hope I hope my expectations are properly subverted. I don't think you'll be as disappointed as you were with Last jedi, but yeah Yeah, sin sins is amazing and you're all insane. That's very true Lee loves bell front two campaign because you play as women Yeah, stop white nighting for cathleen kennie. Dude, cathleen kennie is a great resume. I'm not white like Dude, she worked on so many great films. I'm a fan of her like this is not some fake I'm not standing up for because she's a woman. I genuinely believe she's qualified She's basically the next you know the next best thing to spielberg. Yeah Oh No, Lee, I don't want I don't want to picture you molesting ryan dude. Go ahead and picture it man Uh, you need a ryan johnson emoji so we can say ryan milk Ryan milk huge fan and this is totally off topic But rags is wrong about water not being wet. Oh god when you dry something you are removing excess water making water the source of the object's wetness That doesn't actually Prove his point if anything that proves mine Um He should he should have thought that through a bit better. I appreciate the donation I am not gonna it will be forever if I fucking call it on any of that Someone call the I think the color is not real thing is way more interesting. Anyway Someone call the ordo hereticus on this man quickly. What's what's the ordo hereticus? Warhammer dude, you guys know way more of these terms than I do Wisecrack just posted a bullshit video Damn it Bullshit video on starship troopers equals fashion bullshit go forth and watch and down for if you agree Um, honestly sargon is the only person I've seen Have a take on starship troopers that I thought was more accurate than any other what I've seen Dude his video on starship troopers. It was amazing. I've really like I said man I always I really want him and uh These guys think Kathleen was a water girl. It's like, yeah Calm down Yeah, I'd be interested to see a debate about starship troopers between someone who thinks that it's Well, just the two posing ideas. I guess Give me the things it glorifies fascism or psychopaths, right? Uh, it would be basically impossible to make the case that it does They're like, oh, it's like, you know, it's fucking nazism is good. I'm like, what are you time? Yeah, I wonder what movie they saw Yeah Yeah, I don't know I watched it wrong People really hate Kathleen. It's it's it's it's interesting. They will the hair she approved the script, right? So people blame ryan and her Oh, I love her for that. I just want to give her a high five. I just want to hug her. It's a very Christmas good. I'm sorry I'm sorry guys It's 2019 tell us about all the creative decisions Kathleen made. Yeah, I'm sorry good Uh, you're watching e-fab. You got yourself a cup of ryan and milk life is good Keep up the good work guys rag is stay sassy beautiful You need to pay money for the game to be fun lee baggins We're so far back. We are we're all the way back to balford too right now They kind of got rid of most of that, but okay fine. Yeah, it sucks. I know EA stalls balford too. It's not that bad Gonna be Gonna be an interesting watch have some monies. Thank you very much. Hey man. It's called looking at the bright side Not wrong with that Have to correct a common comment here in balford too You cannot buy star card upgrades the game was going to be paid to win But they removed it before it came out paying is only cosmetic you only upgrade your abilities by playing Yeah, and um, I believe it was the fact that it takes Bloody ages to get the things you want and they tried to I believe they tried to ease that out too They tried to make the grinding um Less impactful I was really the it was sort of like the watershed moment for a lot of it was what started the loot box It's what began it because if not for balford too, this is an ironic greatness of the game Uh microtransactions probably still would be stuck in a position where the culture was not as aware of them They'd be an anthem. I know anthem changed specifically because a lot of the backlash for yeah developers fucking hate balford too for biting too much like they bit Yeah, they went too hard. They're like, oh, it's gonna be like 500 bucks for Darth Vader. It's the idea of like So you have like a bunch of siblings who regularly steal a couple of pennies out of your parents wallet Like one of them stole the entire wallet. They're like, no, you fucking idiot. No, they'll no It is pretty good Uh, hey major league, can you definitively definitively say making love to your grandma would be a bad experience? I ease zero out of 10 if you've never done it. I guess that's a reference We're talking about my my dead grandma or like someone else's grandma. Well, I think that point would still stand I think either is It's because you said about, you know, you shouldn't really be talking about the game if you've never played it This argument is Can you never say a thing is bad without having experienced it? Well, a game is not meant to be like fucking your grandma. It's supposed to be fun. So it's a little different I mean, if you were to say Don't knock banging a nail into your dick until you've done it not Yeah, it's a cute If somebody tells me that orlando bloom was in lord of the rings and then I say, well, you haven't seen the movie So you shouldn't talk about I mean, I don't know what dude. I only said that because I really it sounded like you'd played the game I was surprised that you didn't Well, you know, I said I hadn't said anything wrong the premise of the argument is that we're not playing it because of these things having existed I get that that's an ethical thing Totally fair Microtransactions are a problem when people have spending problems in gambling addiction because that's who they're made to cater to So that's why there's Tim's like whales. It takes advantage of those people Um, yeah, you know I'm okay with like certain microtransactions Because I was gonna say that you could make that argument for literally every microtransaction ever, right? Yeah, uh, so for me, it's always about the execution I've as long as the game is not designed in a way that it is you have to buy this to have a good time to Play the game correctly or beyond the same level as everyone else If you release your game and then you add content packs of just different skins for things and this is like Yeah, you have to pay money to get the match going. Yeah, that's fine Like make your character you have to try pretty hard to justify to me why you have a full 60 dollar game and You're also putting microtransactions into the game because those things used to be unlockable through actually. Yeah, that's it I was Used game market because Well, it's like in that middle earth game It's like the definition of what an expansion truly is. What's the line like expansion packs used to be these massive huge additions to games And in games too, you would have I mean, halo's a good example Do this thing that's difficult You get this item that you could show off that you did something and now it's everything is so randomized Loot boxes are so commonplace in a lot of other games That when people have something cool or interesting you don't work towards anything There's no reward that you can show off It's just I got lucky or I paid money. So I got this thing It doesn't actually say anything about how good I am or anything You also have to look at the cost of development these days though. I mean like yeah, but that's a decision They make you can make. Yeah, but you used to be able to make a video game with five guys in a basement You can still do that. You can do it with one guy With five guys in a basement. Okay. Well, hang on. You know, what's assassin's creed made with five guys in a basement originally Oh, but I'm saying that the reason it has more You know dlc and that sort of thing is that like look it was a great Yeah, what are we talking about expansions? Well, yeah expansion packs and micro transactions or look at terraria Oh, dude, you play that I'm not saying there aren't games that are like that It's just like, you know, some people look if you want to say, hey, let's stop making AAA games and just make indie 2d things Okay, that's a different argument. What about hell? No, not at all. Hellblade was a that's a two That's a indie game the Witcher 3's an indie game Soma but would god of war have been better if less people worked on it I don't know. Maybe that's a strange position to take. Yeah, maybe I'm saying that to make those games You have to have a company and they have to be profitable. So the Witcher 3 is an indie game Witcher 3 has a very large staff. That's an indie game. That's impressive Well, it depends on looking forward to that. You're saying it's an independent studio. That's not an indie game. No Or like stardew valley by the common definition of indie game. Witcher 3 definitely does not qualify Yeah, it's a little Being an independent game studio is different from being an indie developer. You know what I'm saying How Uh indie, okay, if I tell you I have an indie band Does it sound like I put on saying the guy defending micro Who is defending micro transactions in this conversation? I know I'm not I know they suck I'm defending micro transactions. I said they're bad, but it just there's so much good shit in the game that it's You can't give it a zero because that you could give it a five or a six. That's fair But the micro transactions are optional, which they are Well, there's just so many modes that don't even involve that that there's just I don't know. Yeah, it's what you've relegated stuff that is in those micro transactions to content that otherwise would have been unlockable Skill or here's the question as a reward or would have been available for $60. Do you get $60 worth of content? And that's what matters Oh $60 there's the option to obtain more content If you play the game a lot, absolutely you're getting your money's worth I mean, you know, so does the game have $60 worth of content fine And then if they want to charge $60 worth of content is the standard then that justifies pay to win micro I mean, I'm not saying They had this great They didn't have this great concept down but now at this point with all the the You know bending over they've done and getting rid of A lot of the micro transactions. They've added a lot of free content. You got all this last Jedi stuff The prequel stuff. I mean, it's definitely worth $60 at this point I don't see why micro transactions. Look if I pay $60 for a game and I get a game That's fantastic. There's no part of me that says I have to buy more stuff In fact, I very rarely buy any DLC because I'm like, yeah, I got enough out of that game The the store and Fallout 76 makes the game and they want to you know Keep making content for it I gotta fund it, you know, there's no reason for them to keep adding stuff to the game if it's not going to bring in more money A fallout with like a ten dollar sign For you think all my yeah, well, that's the thing. Obviously, there's ones that are like manipulative and fucking exploitative But if you're gonna be like, oh, it's a whole new area Yeah, because fallout 76 took assets that were in previous games that you got through gameplay and they turned them into micro transactions Right like clothing. Yeah, I mean each one has to be, you know They already have merits, but I think people who are like, oh, you should never have micro transactions I'm like, well, then you're just gonna get games with less content like bread. They're not gonna have any They're not gonna make money off of it. I mean, or they will less content God, I didn't have micro transactions. No, you can sell 60 People make the game and be like free games. They're very common games are fine I'm fine with them in free games as long as they're not pay to win Yeah, no, I hear you. I agree. Okay. I'm a company and I make a game And it's a 60 dollar game and I can sell it for six dollars got enough content What incentive is there for me to keep making more content for it? To keep players invested in your games? I already bought it That you heard of no man's sky Yeah Yeah, yes a game which flopped a game which everyone bought and then immediately refunded You see I didn't play it until Hold on. Where are you going? Where are you going with that? You said they've already bought it So why do I need to do anything else like just because they bought it does not mean Well, the people who bought a physical copy can't refund it and oh, they did it was it was unprecedented If you remember a lot of stores had policies But they said like return your no man's sky copy and we will refund it because of what happened with the bear was that Oh, wow. It was in the toy store that I worked at Oh, well, no, we're in america. Do we ever have the agreement? Hey, yeah, you can return that game you already opened In america, you're fucked Oh Well, we got a better system over here if you're unsatisfied with your product you can return it basically under any circumstances We are jerks Someone's like stop talking league. I'm barely even talking right now. Like I don't think I've got a word in in the past 10 minutes Not that I care. I'm just saying Yeah, I was gonna say we could fucking talk for hours about the ethics of not only we haven't even talked about loot boxes Which are just like satan at this point um But microtransactions in general I'll just try and carry on because the last thing we need is to Actually have a whole second podcast on this, you know Uh, big supporter here. You have inspired others. It's always sunny and old around Ryan direct stores and parts To JJ's backup now on my page. Keep it up. Um Very well, thank you Want to hear a joke part two is coming the 14th. I don't When did I say that it was coming the 14th? I don't remember saying that I don't know. I forget I think the only thing I've ever said is that the end of february and the hope was Uh, gonna be this year. I don't think I ever See, this is why you're encouraging me to never make an announcement about when a video is going to come out Yeah, I I try to stop doing that as well because something pops up or what happens is I'll I'll watch it back and I'll keep adding to it and adding to it and Uh, I hear you do. I I never Tell people when something's finished because like the best stuff comes when you're just Like you're it's done. You're not really trying to look for stuff You're just watching it down and then like the best idea is coming to your head Wolf isn't here. Let me show for him then everybody should watch pans labyrinth. It's a great movie Why is that shilling for wolf? I guess wolf really likes that movie. Oh, yeah, sure. But I would say that's shilling for um, yomo dottoro Yeah, but yeah, no go watch it. It's good wolf is probably too busy playing metro exodus to be on this episode I believe he's in work, but we will see if he's played that or not I'm paying more of a purely cosmetic reason The amazing lucas for efap. I mean, I don't see why not. We'd like to have all kinds of guests. I suppose Um, that'd be that'd be interesting. If everything lee says is to be marked then why listen I knew I knew it was going to be mocked. Well, the things that he said that weren't mock worthy. We didn't mock Right, you didn't mock everything I assume that it's talking about the fact that you said you you do throw in lines that are going to be mocked It's not like lee is saying everything he says is supposed to be mocked Right, I love the mockery you have to understand like I wanted to piss people off of that video I know that sounds childish and stupid, but Yeah, like it's just it's all on purpose, man I love it all and I really love the fact that people Thought it was fake Like I love that that people left that comment A lot of people said this they were like, dude, I thought you were trolling and then like four minutes in I realized it wasn't troll. I love that because that means at one point in their video Their mind was just blown and they were like, oh my god. No This isn't Troll dude, that's great to me. Like I love that stuff I don't know when people when people can't tell if I'm being serious or not. I think that's a failure in my No, dude. No, you got you got to look at it as you're you're blowing their mind Like you are you're taking them for a ride. No keeping them on the edge of your seat What what's an earnest or not? That's true. That is frustrating But also it's like dude, you're you're clowning these people in a way Like you're literally keeping them on the edge of their seat And it kind of reminds me of the whole like jokes on you. I was retarded the whole time Yeah Like I want people to be on the edge of their seat because they're legitimately interested Not because they're just confused about things coming out of my mouth I get it. You don't want to be over the top with sarcasm, but you still want it to be delivered, you know I don't know. Yeah, no, that could be interested but also slightly confused. I mean, that's But that's if I'm if I'm trying to communicate something I don't want to be used I hear you. That's like language No, that's that's ideal What's up guys first time commenting ps got milk, of course has majorly seen more less critique at all I skim through it. Watch a few minutes What do you think I you know I think you pick apart stuff that is in my opinion kind of nitpicky But then again, if you honestly have a problem with it, I'm not going to say you're an idiot I mean, I'm not watching films the way you do. So Those things just don't bother me. But yeah, like I there's some things that are just holes that you can't argue with But again, it's like there's just people that don't watch movies that way and it just that is a shame It might be a shame to you, but it's a shame to them that there are people watching it like that So I I don't think there's any like right way to watch a movie I think there's there's one thing you should do which is not Have a whole planned movie in your head when you go into the theater and again, I'm not saying you guys did that But a lot of people did I mean they bring up a lot and I don't know who these people All right. Well, I've watched a lot of reviews of people bugging out and uh I don't know this is what I'm finding one of them be Like everyone in my video Like Kevin Smith I mean just for an example, I mean, you know Kevin Smith He he he did a good job at voicing the sentiment that I'm sure a lot of people felt which is we wanted to see Luke do like cool saber twists, you know, so That's why I put those guys in the video. You know, it's like they they did a really good job articulating the common criticisms They they said them all I mean the hold-o thing the Everything was covered. I think I don't know bombs uh So, I don't know. By the way, Patrick Willems is someone who actually says there is a wrong way to watch a movie Well, yeah, I mean if you go in like with this thing of like a list of expectations You just said there wasn't you just said there wasn't which one is it? That's the one Stop it We can't make it up we don't know what you're saying your mic is all awful It sounds like you're moving it around or something. He's gone. It's like he's like shaking it to make it work Uh, Leia made the same Yeah, go ahead and read it. Leia made the same mistake too then proceeds to blame Po Oh, we did go over that extensively. So that's arguable. Yeah, if you kill your enemies, they win admiral holdo Um, ryan johnson literally said rose didn't fit in star wars Well, he just meant it was something it was something new it was like Yeah, okay No, like really it just goes something new doesn't mean it's good. I I agree Uh, an entire warship that is pretty much the equivalent of a super battleship for a couple of shitty bombers sounds like a great trade off Yeah, that's a pretty excellent trade that you'd be a fool to not make Yeah, I'd have to agree with that people are very It's interesting that people are very concerned with like the details of the space battle and you know There's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the plot. It's stuff that happens in the film that it is the star war No, I know. Yeah, it's the movie Yeah, it's how I get invested in the characters. They're making decisions. I'm just saying it's interesting. I you know Yeah, pete. It's interesting if people care about the plot Yeah, right. Yeah, jill's gonna chill moll and rags. Have you patients of saints? I couldn't do what you do I mean, it's been it's been chill. It's okay. There's been Dude, he's fine. This guy doesn't even get He's like he's not even flinch Rags is stalwart. He's a paragon of Of righteousness. Isn't that right rags? Yep, there you go. That's all the difference between rags and veto. I'm sure you guys kind of sound alike What? Little bit. I don't I don't know you guys well enough It's all I'm hearing is everybody talking over each other. I don't know when Rags is talking and veto's talking. I can't tell the difference. Oh, the green circles over my icon. That's when I'm talking That's yeah, uh, what troll meter should I get on amazon mine broke? What what? This they're saying they troll me to oh, I got fin was conscripted to be on the resistance plantation This talk is a macro aggression. That's a fucking hilarious comment Unrelated question red light media recently did a review of the often overlooked 1984 classic top secret Have any of you mula rag or wolf seen that movie? We haven't seen it, but we want I want to because I saw the thing on it I really do want to see that there's some movies on my list that I do want to see That's that's probably at the top. Yeah, that movie looks hilarious. Um Then he tells his nephew. He is beyond redemption misunderstand misunderstanding of the character and the force Does he say that about kylo? I can't remember Wait, does he say what? Beyond redemption Luke say that He definitely tells ray that like you're wasting your time trying to turn him good, you know I guess yeah that counts Uh tlj equals prequels prettier cgi and dead ot. Hey rags. Oh, there you go. You gotta admit at least the acting was better Let's at least come to that conclusion. I mean you really got mark hamill What? Wait, what's the better acting and better what's better than what? I I think at least you can agree that the acting in the last shit I was was better than hayden christensen. Come on. Just come on um What character? I mean anyone christians anyone you want even the lamest character. I think was i mean i'll still i'll stick to the I hate what they did with his character, but i think mark hamill did an amazing job Mark hamill was better than hayden christensen But i think hayden was better Adam drive is loud I mean, I I don't get what he's trying to do though. I don't I don't know if that's I haven't seen him in anything else So I don't know if that's a character thing or a script thing It's like it's like daisy ridley is like I can't Like surely she's not the best actress for this role Because she has issues with like emoting in speech So Yeah Oh, well, yeah, I I mean I've been looking at a lot of clips because I've been making the tfa stuff I don't know what it is about daisy ridley's portrayal of ray, but she seems to have so few facial expressions to make Um the open eyes open mouth And then like you say that about the other characters too or just her Even I think even uh harrison fools doing a better job than she is in that movie and he's a little bit I think she kind of say that about fin. He kind of makes like three faces Um, I don't know. I think he's he's kind of he's kind of a joker Or like a jester like we mentioned before like the whole He's so he's like oh Oh, oh my god. Oh, and it's just like okay. There's a lot of faces. You're making I guess a lot of slapstick reactions to stuff No, I really like Oh, sorry. Good. Uh, kylo is strong, but there's nothing that hints that luke wasn't 1969 times stronger than kylo um I don't know. I don't fucking clue what the power levels are ray kind of broke the meter when she Defeated kylo and luke It's funny and in the dragon ball uh movie. I just saw they really like I mean I know this has always been a thing in that series, but it was like oh his power level is 3000 Oh, man. My power level is 6000. I I guess maybe some people Would want that info here. I don't know Uh Majorly needs logic for dummies book right now and You mean like the math Like logic like the math logic. Yeah, I don't I don't know shit about that. That's some that's some Yeah, luke has given up its crap suicide by cop The not so great. Hey christianson's not a bad actor, but he's bad in that movie Just like Natalie portman is bad in it. Like it's just it was not good direction The performances are just across the board week I'd have to watch the third one again because I remember the uh I mean, you obviously remember the iconic shit like him getting super pissed at obi-wan while all of his limbs have been cut off Not like I was you know Uh, that was fun Yeah, I don't know. I'd have to think about it and it would be a comparison of to which actor in the other film I probably haven't watched him in a while Uh luke is much entertaining. I mean it's you know luke is much stronger in the force than Been by sheer virtue of time and training again yoda yoda could have slapped luke around in esp But luke was physically stronger and more vital than him Fair enough major lee do you think that luke's skywalking milking scene was important or appropriate? Absolutely loved it when I saw that I was fucking cracking up I like when I first saw that I really wanted to just hug ryan johnson. I want it to be like dude You're the man. It was so funny I mean, here's this guy Drinking blue milk out of a tit. It's just hilarious All right, what was it right? It wasn't an otter. It wasn't an otter. It wasn't like others are tits Yeah, but it was it looked like a breast. You know, I had like two or like round Petrusions on it Wouldn't what would the distinction even be really because it's not what it is supposed to be Yeah No one calls it an otter though. Everybody calls it tits Yeah, I mean if you would say What's got others someone's like, yeah, we get it lee Uh rags equals jotaro majorly equals steely dan. I don't know the reference. What is really dan fan, but okay I'll have to look at jotaro Uh, I guess this is a question for lee. When did snoketon kylo's heart and why? Like moller said it it hasn't been really covered in detail. It it it's it's uh something that should have been in a flashback or Whatever, you know but It's not too late to go back and explain some of that stuff and it also wouldn't be terrible to explain that in the third movie I mean now that kylo is I mean again you can debate this but now that he's at least more bad than he wasn't, you know I don't um Maybe now it's time to revisit that but again if they don't i'm not going to be bothered by it Oh, that's jotaro I can see I can get why you are he's the last jedi who's gonna train ray now The books will train ray ray doesn't need any training Of course all lightsaber fights in one of the fighters getting axed ignore the hundreds of times where the fights ended with both parties unscathed never mind maimed Yeah, I mean That's referring to when you said like one of the two things that could even happen Well, I mean I just think him wounding him would be I don't know. I I didn't see that being a possibility, but that it you know, it's not terrible Uh luke could have been on that island protecting his remaining students and preparing the fight for the first order He could have been striking from the shadows Yeah, absolutely another option. That's what people thought he was doing. Yeah. I mean that was the Consensus and no that was there wasn't a consensus I think most people assumed he was like training or gearing up to do something I mean most people would guess that based on everything that we've been told about a character that he's probably gonna be He's gonna be active proactive rather than the opposite of that. Yeah, we assume that he's acting consistently with his established character Yes, well again. I mean this was one of those meta themes that this movie was aware of I mean ray says to luke leah sent me here with hope if she was wrong. She deserves to know why we all Think I'm telling you when she said we all deserve to know why she's talking about you the fans We need to know why you are here on this island. We need luke skywalker. What the fuck is going on Because that's like the scene is we're watching the scene. I mean that's that's what it's about It's like we are characters in this movie almost. That's what meta is. It's when you're Okay, but you could also say the film goes on even if we're not even present I know i'm just saying that that line was about you as the fan you deserve to know why luke is there So, I mean that's just storytelling Well, I'm just saying the movie was aware That people had that expectation. I mean they had their explanation and that's pretty much what our problem is Yeah, I don't I don't uh I don't hate you for that uh lee. How much moonshine have you drunk to come up with this utter garbage? I've never tried it. Is it? Yeah, no, it's nasty. You tried that right? I don't know. I I am from arkansas And I have not tried moonshine I'm not a big liquor man Not so great this guy says this guy says I this guy's saying I imagine and assume too much Yeah, you know, maybe I do but Again, these are things that really never bothered me. It's not like I'm sitting here with a list of flaws and like trying to come up With explanations for him. I just never thought of that stuff like it never bothered me enough for me to Even talk about it. So yeah, it's gonna sound like I'm assuming and making shit up But it's like dude, this is the first I've heard those complaints. So, you know, I don't know what else to say about it. Yeah Uh, you can't introduce a character with this level of importance into a pre-existing canon without explaining him The emperor was a one-off. There was no law he had to conform with in the ot Yeah, the other argument that I would say that makes it so the emperor is not The same as snoke is that the emperor's existence doesn't contradict anything Uh, snokes existence. It's like how the fuck did he get there when the republic's been in power? That's like the first obvious question Um, and we're and so he's so old that he would have been alive during palpatine's reign So where was he then and it's just like just obvious things that it would nice to get them, you know I said that I totally said that when I saw tfa. I was like, dude, who is this guy? I had how did he become the new leader? You know, what what's the deal here? But by the time this last jedi storyline gets going with snoke and he's you know, he's He's abusing kylo and they have this relationship now. It just I don't know. It just kind of got swept away But that's just me, you know, this is literally the not so great debate too That's just funny because uh, I'll be interested to see what wolf thinks as a whole in the same way Some people say luke and tlj is commentary on ptsd and that's why it's good I respond with rose and fin is commentary on workplace sexual harassment Yeah, I mean they highlighted a strong issue. Someone's saying what would bother you lea Could kathleen county ryan johnson do anything to upset you? Yeah, I have a lot of problems with the force awakens I just really think ryan did a good job with what the cards. He was dealt. It's a tough thing. I mean people, you know People had more expectations in a way for this film because they really were expecting luke to do something in this one I mean we already had that and now it was probably doubled down for this film And yeah, there was plenty of stuff that could have happened that I would have hated I mean, I could think of a billion things, but I just think they did a good job with what they're given They did it okay the way that they did it, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not perfect. Yeah, I I'm I'm with you guys I think it'd be fun to see all three guys together and high-fiving on the falcon, but all part of me also Well, okay. I'm just saying some people have said that and he said you guys You never said you'd be cool to see luke connan lay it together High-fiving on the millennium falcon. No, maybe not high-fiving. That was the joke part, but you know what I'm saying A lot of people have that opinion that it's a missed opportunity and yeah, I kind of agree with that, but at the same time it's so Uh also respectful to the old films that they don't try to repeat all that stuff And they don't risk making it like this corny reunion So you got to look at it like that they they just didn't want to cheapen The original iconic image of these three guys on a falcon It's so much more special because it it wasn't really have to have a character say It's salt so that you know, it's not you know, it's not That was funny. That was funny. Yeah, I with garth edwards. Yeah, that was funny. It was fucking pathetic It was silly. You got to you know, it wasn't a bad like that that scene. Yeah, I'm laughing at it Not with it. If you know what I mean Yeah, well, they wanted you to know why there was redness underneath the whiteness. It was just That explains why it's not hot It's not snow. Yeah, you're right. It's this isn't hot. Just in case you're clearly recreating hot Um kylo confront luke on crate both discussed They want to destroy the old orders and build a new huck tries to kill them with 8080s and they save each other's lives They are the new antagonists of episode nine. I guess they're presenting another option for crate Who is the new anti? Oh, oh, I got you EFAP drinking game take a shot every time li says maybe because he's presenting a hypothetical version of the film I pray for a swift death Dude, I don't I don't like making like definitive statements if I'm not a hundred percent sure about something You should use maybe a lot when talk when speculating on on Theories or things that we're not agreeing on that are in a film. I'm just being respectful If I if I want to give you an idea like this is definitely the case What they mean here is that we're going by what's in the film and the defense of it is a hypothetical that doesn't exist within the film I'm curious how you would like so for example when Vedas says I am your father and it's revealed and all that stuff happens if we come out of the cinema from that film You go man, I can't believe it Vader is Luke's father and then I go I think he's just referring to it like a metaphorical sense like he's a mentor I don't think he's actual father Like maybe he's just saying that you know, I am your Your sure some people interpreted that way people apparently interpret it. No people people thought he was lying to Luke People are like all of averages. Yes, somebody will have thought that and all the people who's dude It's just like with kylo telling ray. You're you're I'm not not your brother. It's like You know a lot of people think he's lying even though it came out of her mouth But You know, it's possible that he put it into her head and made her think that yeah I mean, it's Anything is possible. You got to say maybe with the shit. We're in the middle of the trilogy We haven't seen out where it goes yet. Is there anything you can say this definitive about anything ever in a movie Like if someone gets eaten by a t-rex, do you go they were eaten by a t-rex Do you go ah that might have been a projection like a lie from someone else That could it could be it could be a puppet. It could be a clone. It could be I don't think I'd go that maybe Han Solo survived. That's all I wanted. I wanted to know you have a line. It's good that you have a line Yeah, I got some line somewhere There's a line somewhere There are some people who don't have that line and it's just like a philosophical nightmare Just right does not have that line You know, I nightmare Anyone who likes the channels of these fine gentlemen will love strated G I don't know that channel productions channel. Good breakdown of game design spell it a strat dash edg Stratz dash edg and then productions Dash edg Productions a more and rags wanting to both to know you guys help me through the toughness in my life with your individual content on eFap It's not to say you guys are the reason i'm still here today Uh, thank you so much. You guys are awesome. Thank you very much Zachary very kind Um, it was like Lee didn't have a plan Did you want me to have a plan like should I have showed up to this? No, no, it was always just gonna be a I didn't plan anything. I just plan Yeah, no, I thought it would be respectful to not come in with a bunch of shit. I had a plan Vita had everything planned a plan went according to plan I'm glad you feel that way star wars story writing my plan was for my microphone to keep breaking by the way Um, yeah, oh well. I was gonna say hopefully we can make it now to the end stretch uh star wars story writing one through three and Five six seven through nine suffers from the writer's prior knowledge that they have to another two films to explain shit I suppose it's an interesting thought the fall wasn't made with the strict idea that are five and six But then they could they could add them on while the other trilogies were like we have two films to go So we don't have to explain everything I don't think the prequel's really suffered in that way Yeah, because the prequels you can knock the first prequel off and you'd still have your story pretty much Totally Um, not to say that phantom man is worthless just that uh two and three Would function as the history of Darth Vader just as well as one two three more goes on. Yeah. Yeah Uh kylo is so tortured crawling in my skin Uh, would you say lazy writing equals bad writing? For example, I would say death note has a lot of lazy writing But I would never say it's bad writing lazy Usually means they took an easy way out I'd say death note has a lot of bad writing But uh, that's just me lazy. Is it necessarily bad? Like you could lazily attempt to do something and it turns out okay. Yeah Yeah I would usually do it in reverse as in I see someone who's like, how do we get our heroes out of this? And then one of them goes I have a a sphere that just does it and they press a button. They get out I'm like wow, that was fucking lazy Well, I thought it was pretty lazy when r2d2 randomly woke up at the end of force awakens, but you know Do you know that jj's given like four different accounts of why that happened? The first one being that it just it just does. He was sad It's He was in low power mode Uh, I don't know. This is like an abuse victim covering for their abuser. I think they're referencing yuli. I'm so sorry I I don't I don't want you to think I feel abused here. Don't don't feel that bad for me He doesn't hit me. I fell down the stairs into his fist I hit his fist with my face Someone's like stop reading the comments li should I stop reading these? It might not supposed to be really up to you I I don't know if you want to know why are you commenting if you don't want me to read it? What's the point? This guy strikes me as someone desperately trying to make the best of a bad situation. I mean no, I'm loving the situation Why would I think this is bad? This is your show. This is how it's gonna be. It's this is it. It's this is fine I'm loving it I would have quit. I would have quit five hours ago if I wasn't having fun Lee you argue snokes identity doesn't matter, but this character basically undid what the rebellion fought for 30 years ago Yet, we don't know we was or when were where how or why he did any of these things I think it did matter in in the previous film. I I was also Not invested in his character because I had no details about him same with general hucks I thought he was just like one dimensional villain But then in the second one they elevated their characters, you know right off the bat they give hucks these comedic Moments I thought that really made him likable And same with snoke, you know, you see him treat kylo like shit. He becomes this Personality all of a sudden and at that point it didn't matter what his past was because he was interesting in the moment that at least to me You predicted a more conversation with lee can only become toxic. I actually did expect you to be toxic from your video I didn't I didn't think it would go as well as it did How would I be toxic what by being like a libtard like well because the way that you like You you you ripped into a lot of people. So I was like, I wonder if that's how it goes in an actual conversation or not Ah, dude, I was never about to like Cover you in any of my videos. You're doing your thing. But no, I meant in like in a live conversation I thought maybe you would uh Do that way I didn't know Um, but no, like I mean once we get to the end I could say it as a complete thing But I mean, I I think you've been a very good guest Same for veto and I feel bad that there's not really any super chat questions for veto But I feel like it's probably because people love to pick the brain of someone who loves tlj on this channel. I think I'm a shill for efap, dude. Whatever. Hey, man Whatever you guys want to interpret out of this. I'm okay with it. I'm it's called being friendly Yeah, I'm a shill because I because I like to have Manners, okay The main complaint about star trek discovery series is that it doesn't respect the star trek canon and or philosophy That doesn't uh that it doesn't feel like star trek majorly. How is discovery a solid star trek series? What do you mean by that? I think it totally feels like star trek. Yeah, it's got a different tone. It's a lot darker. It's more adult But I think a lot of people wanted that and I think it could really know they're trying to sell the license. I guess not. Yeah Star Trek Uh discovery is like the tlj of star trek. I've heard it. So I've only I've I've only heard that it's bad I have never heard anyone like go out and I'm not as big of a fan of it as I am of the last Jedi It definitely has flaws, but I'm really enjoying it. I think the stuff with the Klingons is so well done I mean they made them really bad and every scene on their ship is just like the drama is so interesting And you know, there's Klingons that do want to fight in the war. There's ones that want to break away It's like there's all the stuff going on and you know, I again I shouldn't even brought up the fucking show because I don't know nearly as much about that Shit as I do Star Wars, but I'm enjoying it. I honestly am. I think the acting is really good Uh, it looks phenomenal the like cinematography is amazing You know, it's just it's a tv drama, you know what you know Uh, the Joker and Lex Luthor from the animated series of batman and superman are excellent compelling non-conflicted pure evil characters or villain Sorry I assume that's about because you said that it's not fun to have a villain that's like one dimensional I guess It's okay sometimes like I you know, I made the argument in solo that I thought Dryden was kind of one dimensional but then again, he also fit with the archetype that he was He's this crime boss. He's supposed to be an asshole. He does he fits with what he is He kind of felt like the same character he played in gangster number one I think it was like a little echo to that but You know with snoke. Yes, it would have been boring if he was just The emperor are we talking about snoke or kylo here? Who are we talking about? He's like that that's It sounds like a like the like the reason was it is what it is No, I think with star wars. We've seen a lot of villains that are just straight bad We got darth maul. We got count dooku. We got the emperor, you know kylo is this new type of villain that actually has Possibility at redemption, but maybe not it's like it's keeping us on the edge of our seats Or at least people that are liking it at least Uh majorly is better than jack and eric for coming on eFap while rags is here. Yeah, I mean You'll get major profit coming on Rags you have kind of like an american Accent like are you where are you from? I do have an american accent No, I mean like like uh, you have like a slight twang, right? Are you from the south or now? Arkansas. Okay. Okay. Cool. All right. So now I can tell the difference. I'm sorry Uh, wait, what why did they say that? Do you do you rag on people? No, it's the other people who've been invited to eFap have refused to come on if rags is here Even though I guess it's good that I did I guess it's good. I did absolutely no research into you guys. I mean I also didn't want to come in with like, you know this Grudge or anything like that. I just don't care It's like a lot of people say nasty things about us that aren't true You know, I don't even want to know anything, right crazy. I don't even want to know shit You guys don't seem like you're even conservative at all. Are you? We haven't really gotten political at all in this discussion. You guys haven't said anything Well, except for your like racist joke about black guys kissing whatever Whatever, but yeah, I didn't you guys didn't kiss You guys didn't come off as like ultra conserve Well, it's just it's become a meme that if you don't like the last Jedi you're conservative Apparently, that's a thing and then right is I mean, I I did say that in the rap video I just put out which I don't know if you guys have seen but oh get get ready to have material Uh, yeah, I mean that's just a funny thing. I like joking about that Yeah, obviously not everyone is a freaking conservative that hates the movie, but it's fun to Say that and poke fun at them I don't know. I just think it's really funny You guys haven't seen that freaking insanely idiotic rap video. I just uploaded dude. You're gonna have a field day with that I we haven't but I I'll I'll make a note. You're gonna You will crack the fuck up and be like why the fuck do we just have this idiot on? Uh, leo was a goddamn jedi in the extended universe. Oh, well, that's non-canon anymore sorry Disney killed it uh capitalism ho The biggest plot hole of a new hope is the stormtroopers saw them jump into the trash and Uh, after they left the trash compacted there should have been a firing squad waiting for them Yeah, you could say the armed troopers probably just assumed they died in there. Um, so now you're doing what I did You're you're doing what I was accused of doing. Um, what I would say is I don't know that that's uh That's a strict line. I'd be like do they know exactly where that goes without checking plans Right. Yeah, I was gonna say like, how do they even know that goes to the trash compact? And could they see that's what was happening for sure? It was like they're clearly moving or running They might have had to check the area first to make sure they were just hiding Um, and the guys there there should have been a line where the stormtroopers say where does this go? Yeah, but stormtroopers never talk and we assume they're incompetent Yeah, but yeah, no, I think I think I'd be okay with that if we had a um, a quick a quick throwaway line for why they would have been able to Is like if they're coming out of the place and they're like, um How do the stormtroopers not find us that they go we have to head to the maintenance shaft or Try to head them off at the wherever it was. Yeah to explain it a bit And Han is like that shoot could lead to the hundreds of trash compactors. They'd have to check them all Yeah, something like that. I don't know separates the waste by size and The big waste area Um Fans have waited 35 years to see these characters back on screen together. Let's not give them that Kathleen Kennedy Yeah, I again it's like a lot of people are saying that that that's one of the It makes you appreciate the original that much I just think it's it's a flaw and it's also a strength I don't see how it's in any way a strength, especially For me it it makes me really appreciate the originals where they were together I mean if we cut off your dick, that's like saying someone's shooting you in the dick makes you appreciate all the time You had a dick. Yeah, exactly. Exactly You agree. Okay. All right then Moving on Luke searches Kylo's mind in his sleep and he sees ben has killed people that smoke influence has already turned him So ben was evil to begin with before he even woke up. So what was the point? Of luke not killing him or of luke holding the saber over Uh, I guess there's a lot. I'm not sure exactly what they're referring to but maybe they're referring to luke Feeling guilty like why would he if it's not his fault that any of this is happening. He's already evil Maybe it would have helped to see exactly what he was seeing You know what I think what I agree You're saying why does luke feel guilty about I I'm not sure they said what's the point I'm not sure exactly what they're referring to the point of what's the point of their question Well, I don't know sir Okay, uh tfa and tlj ruined the ending of return of the jedi inexcusable. I mean, yeah, that's tfa destroys return of the jedi hardcore Which reverses everything it kind of made it feel for nothing. Yeah Well, we haven't again the jet Movies later. We're down to one Well, I disagree with much that majorly says I have to admit that he has the fortitude to come on here with The three on one conversation very much a true I mean, there was no other choice. I don't have anybody else. I could bring it I mean, if you had said I don't know fucking only come on if rags doesn't we just be like, all right, then The kissy luck of it on but if you had said, I don't know. Can I bring a friend? We'd be like sure I don't have any friends, uh, but uh I'm joking, but yeah, it's just like I'm just doing this because people were really getting on my case about it I mean, I didn't plan on it. But once I saw how important it was to people, you know your show Uh, I was like, okay, if he's down, I guess I'm down. I just didn't think you would want to do that Oh, well, um, unfortunately and and this isn't on you. It's on it's not on anybody, but uh, when you have fans of two sides Uh, talking to each other excessively, you'll have them say stuff that doesn't even come from us So like they might go Lee is too cowardly to come on eFap and then fans of yours might go They ignore him at every turn because they're scared. The whole time it's like, I wasn't even away You wanted to come on. I was just like, oh I thought that was a possibility. No, I the five fans that I have. Yeah, they're they're probably not even aware. This is happening Well, I have some fun with it. Uh, want to raise the stakes introduce the yuzang vong who would make no sense and it's too late But hey stakes are raised Subvert those expectations, baby. That's what we're all about. Let's be on. Here's what everyone really is thinking Let's be honest Everyone really wants to know If it's on our fish and I'm gonna kiss making a fish Oh and fish on car plot is coming back. That's what we all care about Simon pig. You know what's funny on car plot literally Is like Ray's adopted father. There could be a lot there that we never got to see They could revisit him. He was a cool character. I think Going to the rhino milk casino to win some memes. It's new. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely new. I mean, you know Why did you kill the younglings? Well, it's a great band name Uh, why did you kill the younglings? Well, you know Is that what I said, you know Hey rags. I tried out hell blade good video, bro Oh, thanks. I'm glad you tried it out. Hope you liked it. You need to play that game. What is it like 30 bucks? It was my game of the year for 2017. Really? That's surprising. Hellblade. Yeah, that's cool Hey guys, I'm never able to catch these lives and I wanted to give back for the hours of entertainment. PS rag is is a weird grape Is true Kylo's Kylo still kills luke. It's not embarrassing at all Oh, right the whole uh The story wouldn't really be embarrassing for kylo because ultimately he's still killed luke as far as anyone knows We don't know if kylo knows that luke's dead. I mean he might he might have an idea because he said this would kill you but He also was pretty fucking pissed off or through whatever when luke disappeared. He wasn't thrilled Uh an e-fab debate with major lee. I wouldn't miss this for the world too bad. I'm stuck at work Hopefully you have one of the jobs that lets you uh Maybe put something on the background. I don't know Uh, major lee is t-posing and letting out hot takes. Yes hyperspace a star destroy a game over at the start How would I not what what would I do instead of hot takes like what what else what's the alternative Cold takes like always is a movie right Very entertaining Fuel isn't a thing when you every ship has ion engines. Also, you make micro jumps Also, there is over 10 000 fighters in enemy fleet. Yeah. Yeah, we that tells you where we're these superchats are currently at and Isn't implied by the movie itself that the empire 2.0 literally can't remember their name has more fuel than the rebellion When they say that they're going to chase them until the rebellion runs out of fuel Yeah I just all of it makes me sad It's like yeah, no people really care more about this than anything It's it's just it's not even even if it logically makes sense. It's just boring as hell. I'm like, well, okay It's the least thrilling movie Well, I know there's ships around well people go on it. It felt like the right rhythm Uh, hey lee, I don't remember the death star battles in six and four They were like, oh, I don't remember that did that happen? Gee, I mean the the sentence itself will be supported by the following sentence Which is there were like hundreds of tie fighters A new hope is at least 20 to 30 also vader had an escort. Maybe maybe it's leading up to the hundred an episode nine Just there has to be a progression. That's uh, that's a what we're just like. Let's just You agree, right? It's dumb That they would say so few tie fighters I don't think it's dumb, but yes, that is something you could be bothered by and I wouldn't think you're nuts. Yeah All right Been e fapping since bilbo baggins wolf still waiting for a man to come on molly My favorite youtuber been introducing your content with my friends. Happy e fap to us all happy e fap. Good sir This whole movie wasn't intended. So let's ignore it Was it intended luke's projection needed foreshadowing like a Naruto teleport when ray hits him It's okay for villains to pull powers out of their ass, but not heroes. I don't think it's They had a line where they said Right. No, I mean there was that one line where kylo said you couldn't be doing this. It would kill you to ray I think that was enough um That's just that's Combines to it's a bit weird though because it's like That's snoke putting their two worlds together sort of to have them talk. It's not like Well, maybe from luke's perspective. He was still I don't know. Yeah, sure. It's not like there's no Let's talk with him. Sorry Connecting ray and kylo Yeah I'm not here Wait, what do you say? Sorry. I look out for me And why is ray why was snoke connecting ray and kylo to get wanted to test them He wanted to see who was gonna turn was kylo gonna be the bitch and Go with ray or was ray gonna get corrupted by kylo and be his new I thought he explicitly said it was to convince ray that kylo could be saved and to bring her here Yeah, he was just testing the both of them there He wanted her to be his new apprentice and when she wasn't down. He's like I kill her No, he said killer from the beginning. Yeah He was always planning on killing her. Yeah, it was it was all just to test kylo Well, no, it was to get the location luke skywalker And that's the first thing he does. He torches it out of him. They change they change Pile on the reasons. Oh, wait, why could he changes his reasons? I don't know. Yeah. Oh, could be both Well, if you remember, um The like what he says we have to complete kylo's trading. It's like epic as fuck in tfa and then it turns out all the That was silly. What do we do silly doxide trading really? He's like we have to come to the base and meet me with kylo ren like all right, dude He wants to complete dog. I I don't know man. I am we haven't seen it once In the hollywood movies Seeing a sith master teacher sith apprentice or whatever they are doxide users. That's a good point That's a good point. I want to see how we how they justify their position How they consider it to be the best position. We've seen a bit of it in the prequels with dooku and shit, but uh Yeah, no, that'd be cool. Yeah Ray should have fallen to the doxide while kylo returned to being a jedi. I mean I'd watch that story. I just wanted to be well written. That's all if that was what it was very undisney like Yeah, it may not make it work Uh, they have to be believable Poe was too perfect and ray isn't explain this. Oh, yes. You said the poe was too, uh Too perfect. Oh ray has a lot of flaws. I mean she makes this terrible mistake of getting involved with kylo I mean, that's not perfect. She believes in people too much. What a horrible flaw She has such a she has well, she might be believing in the wrong person She might be believing in a guy who really is just not redeemable That's a flaw. We don't know if he's redeemable or not How about the fact that she put all of the stock in kylo and luke and not herself? She has like a confidence problem I think she just she went herself to do it. I'm pretty sure she's confident Yeah, I mean the center, but yeah Uh, yeah, I mean she doesn't have that many flaws. You're right. She's very I wouldn't say I wouldn't say that any of those two are flaws All right. Well The whole thing with ray being like a strong woman. It's just You know, she grew up on jack who she lived by herself. Okay. Well I wouldn't go that far She she grew up on this planet by herself. I just assumed all right. We know she could fight. We've seen her fight these other scavengers um And then you just got the fact that she's the hero like she can't We can't see her lose. So it's just she has to be the most powerful I don't know because it's not because I go see a movie. I'm like Younger girls would even inspire I'll scream Uh Someone said in black walk down people feeling isn't that the whole point? Yes. Well, she she failed enough. She did enough. What do you mean? I don't know. It was sad a couple times It might have just been her face. We don't know In blackhawk town, they shared the plans like yeah in in normal movies Commanders will allow their their teams to actually feel like there is some semblance of hope I love they address that in the movie Like the he highlights to her that give us hope and then she just gives a bit of an allergy about hope Is there was bizarre fucking response? It's like excuse me. He like already knows it Po really got uh po really got the shit out of the stick, but then again the moment where he Leads everyone and leis has follow him. It's such a fun moment. I mean you really feel like this guy learned something He's a better leader now. I don't know what he learned To escape to save escape to not fight. Yeah, Finn wanted to help I think he can do that after he destroyed the dreadnought in the opening scene. He escaped. Yeah Yeah, but this was like this was like the moment where he learned like, okay I'm gonna say the quote that holdau said I'm gonna do what she did Let's let's escape through the back and not fight with luke. He didn't have anything to fight with I could see what they were going for but it just doesn't make sense. Yeah I don't know. I love that whole ending man. It just doesn't That scene when fin is like You know given his little speech and the the force theme plays underneath like it really feels like the two trilogies are melding together You know I I love what you thought I know I know it's just a music cube, but I mean really a lot of times these subtle little things are what make it feel Like star wars. I mean to me just hearing see through po's voice is like the ultimate star wars thing ever There's little just sound effects that that make it Feel like it relates or you know I don't know it could be what whatever makes you like star wars some people like see through po's and people like the star the lightsabers, you know So much to like in this series and this film is just packed with it But you know And you should write reviews for a say, you know all those all those places Reviews for what places reading the critical reviews again It's just packed with so much packed bro. It's packed originals. It's like a pack of sigs It's so inspiring I mean it's major lee would rack bench appear at an argument very true ESAP every single really think that I'm I'm honored that you think that because he is apparently like the ultimate Debater, but I really don't see it. I think they're goofing on you Yeah, no, I was gonna say there's no way they think that Yeah, I don't think they do no 90 of his arguments up, dude And yeah, so what? Yeah, he's he's he's implying it's like it's not something that he cares about some of the Poe killed the entire resistance by being a whiny by being a whiny and sending fin on a mission Which resulted in holders plan being exposed by dj poe can't be trusted doesn't follow orders holder did nothing wrong oh, that's I think I think we've talked extensively about that Yeah We've given that argument some time um in your thanos video you said we have to look at the events from the character's perspective In that case poe made a mistake by bombing the big ship too as everyone in the story believes it You've just said something that doesn't make sense So from poe's perspective, he made the right choice from all the other characters perspectives He made the wrong choice that that's in line with what I said about thanos I miss the not so great debate guy can you replace lee with him, please? He was so much better No, he was Go get yourselves a couple of rounds of rhino milk. It's on me boys afterwards. You go look at women, of course I don't know. Was it a rhino? I didn't I didn't get that. Oh, that's that's that's the core EFAP meme right there Don't worry about that Uh, gotcha. Kyle killed his father this Necker deserves to die Just saying it's good doesn't make it good It was a wrong kind of fan service Luke blowing up 8080s would have been better fan service I don't I didn't necessarily want that myself Yeah, not everybody agrees about well, this is the thing, right? I'm curious what your take on is on this. So a lot of people say like, oh, fuck. What did you want him flinging around? Destroying them all and then someone's like, okay, what about he holds all of the uh The blast and then fires them all back into themselves and blows all the heads up And I was just like what about they all blast he holds them all and then just dissipates them Yeah, I'm cool. I just you know it doesn't have to destroy everything It shows it could have a 100 shield or something So, okay, let me ask you this if he did that let's say he Deflected lasers. What would happen after that would Kylo get killed by him because if he can do that Well, we just gotta be able to fight Kylo where he could spare Kylo or he could allow Kylo to murder him in for whatever reason So you would have so you would have preferred if like Kylo actually killed him or no I would have hadn't cut Kylo's arm off Make him so he lets so he like kind of bitch smacks Kylo makes him as bitch and then what? Escapes with the resistance And Kylo is just sitting there like in timeout I'm on timeout. He's been seriously wounded And been given No, that's a vital bit I just think it doesn't go in line with the mistake he made He he made a mistake. He hurt this this poor kid and he's just trying to do what's right. I mean It really is what he openly said that he didn't want his forgiveness It's the um, it's a reference to what he said that when the sun goes down he goes bad Yeah, that literally happened in the force of wagons. It was it was imagery. It was a symbol, but it did, you know Vampire kylo bed or kylo beds. Yeah, that wasn't saying that was a literal thing, but yeah It's a meme. It's fine. That it's beautiful. We'll see that I think as well um Yeah, where are we? But slice and dice that piece of junk out of the sky This whole argument can be summed up with why if I say hello or are you kidding after my point? Does it make my argument more valid? Oh, I did that like once Ray shot three ties down like walter white through pizza Yo, that was fucking awesome when he landed that pizza throw in one take Thanos stabs iron man in infinity war majorly slice and dice. Hell yeah, nice and dice Mola, please put it all makes sense in the april fools video my dude Also, I'm loving this efap stimulation. That's what I need. I have to work. I vey also majorly won because the sheer sophistry destroyed my brain There you go Lee, please as a proud australian I hereby grant rags the m weird pass. Yeah, I give him to I'm I'm from I get the inward pass Oh the n word as a brit rags has got permission for me to say mate Oh mate. Oh, I feel so good to get off the chest Oh, you could call me mate. It's just the time that you dropped that word. It was a little It felt a little condescending, but it's okay relo seems what brine johnson was going for Apparently that's not unanimous, but some people think so rags hates this so much. You can hear the vitriol. I love the show Wait, we were supposed to be responding to a video. Was it just the debate? It was gonna be a video, but it just evolved No more video. There's no way. We don't need videos. Yeah, we got plenty of stuff The last time a major jedi character fell in love 98 of the order was wiped out Yeah, yeah, it's true. You know these things happen Wait, so what I mean if you think about it, there really is not much else you can do that like Honours the original theme of you know Anakin and Padme being the driving force that turned him into Darth Vader Maybe ray is going to be the force that makes him an amount of things that you could do You have this huge universe and all of this creative freedom at your disposal all of the money and time and writers that you could possibly access Yeah, but I think this was pretty damn good considering how bad it could have been absolutely awful I would take a solo. I'd take oh it's terrible too. I'd roll a diet take anything else So you're not feeling any of the new disney films, right? That's your opinion Um rogue one was none of I don't think any of them are good Rogue one was the best, but It's still me Rogue one is my favorite because it fucks with the other ones the least You see I have a lot more respect for people that just hate all of them More so than someone who would say like oh solo was better than tlj. It's like dude put the crack crack I think solo was better than the last jedi. Yeah, it's not better than the last jedi But they're still yeah, it's not set in the bar high well Yeah, see I don't know about that, but okay, you know Don't care that much. Although at least all the characters. I understood their motivations and Okay A logical dissent. I mean it was it was a safer movie than last jedi. That's for sure It made sense if that's what you mean It was a classically structured movie from laurence. Can you see you didn't find as many like plot holes in it then In solo? No, not really. I don't think I can't think of any off the top of my head Oh, I mean it has its selection sure, but um, I just think that it structurally functions a hell of a lot better than tlj because Tlj is just built on the shoddiest of foundations that whole chase None of it I hate to say it's just none of it makes any fucking sense from the get-go and then everything that develops doesn't make sense it's just It's it's like the least movie movie there is in terms of going from event to event To me always seemed like they just had loads of payoffs. They wanted and they were like, how do we string this together because a chase oof I mean, yeah, no, you're not wrong. It's just again There's just so many people that really don't care about any of that But that doesn't matter. We're talking about the like the qualities of the movie and how they're consistent with their own rules So every time you say but other people like it, that's an entirely different discussion that has nothing to do with the point No, i'm just saying that doesn't mean it is definitively bad. You have to just be like I got bothered by this. We've explained why objective was bad So whether people liked it or not, it doesn't matter. That's a separate discussion See you're ignoring you're ignoring a lot of opinions that love the film. No, that's the point opinions don't matter We're not looking at this. We're talking about entertainment. This is like This is entertainment. We're talking about the objective quality of the plot structure and it some people think adam levine is good I think he's the worst thing to ever happen to music But am I gonna say that his music is definitively bad just because I think it's fucking trite and garbage now That's a terrible analogy. I'm just saying if people love something. It's not objectively bad we didn't That those are completely unrelated things whether people like something or not has nothing to do with this objectivity All right, it's all good. Um, I mean like don't that's how definitions is the confusion here Do you think we're saying objectively nobody likes it? When we say that or I mean, I I feel like that's kind of what you're saying maybe not on purpose But yeah by saying that it is definitively a bad film because this is a plot hole and it bothered me It's still not bad. Whether it bothers us doesn't matter. No, no, don't tack that on at the end It doesn't matter. It does we're talking about entertainment. No, it doesn't matter No, no, no, whether it bothers us or not doesn't matter. Wait, so to give you an example, Lee Maybe this will help you the disappearing knife I never noticed that like for ages. I had to be shown it eventually like a few months later That was always a problem whether or not I noticed okay about it I mean the the the fuel thing that you guys are talking about is way more Of a thing than that knife disappearing. That's not my point My point is whether or not I care about it. However, I feel about it has nothing to do with it being an issue That's exactly what I'm saying. I mean, I'm not saying the movie is definitely good because people love it I mean, I acknowledge that it's bad to people but you know We can point out individual aspects and we could show and demonstrate that objectively therefore Yeah, but you know it has nothing to do with how we feel about it Do you know what objectivity is? Yeah, but yeah, okay I mean it kind of does though, but I hear what you're saying. No, no, no It literally doesn't But it does because I don't feel what you're feeling. Do you know what no no forget feelings? It's not about feelings. Stop talking about opinions. I'm watching a film No, it doesn't matter It doesn't matter what we feel that it's about I asked if you knew what objectivity is and you went straight back to feelings Okay Do you know what objectivity is? Yes Can you define it for me? It is when you have an opinion that is no It is something that No, you fucked up I don't know. What's your definition of it? It's not mine Right, just do it. Just just just give him what you're talking about. I've heard you guys like you guys love like fighting People over objectivity and subjectivity. I've heard these arguments before then you then you should be able to define Why is this such a thing that you guys have have to always argue with people about it? What is objectivity? Yes, it's something that is not influenced by feelings. I know what it means. There we go Okay, but it's still a feeling if something isn't bothering someone and it's bothering you that that's feeling No, it's not about whether it bothers us or not There's issues that didn't bother me They are still issues But to say that the film is bad. It's like what are all those critics just lying they didn't like talking about specific things in the film The disappearing No It doesn't have to bother us or no, it's irrelevant It doesn't matter if it bothered us or not. It doesn't matter if it bothered us or not We are talking about the objective quality You love that word, but like what even does It's like what did you just say were you about to say what does that mean what you defined it? You know what it means. Yeah, I know what it means, but like I don't get what your what point you're trying to make though Objectively that is a flaw in the film Well, the knife thing. Yeah, of course it is I admitted that it's a mistake That's that's all we've been saying But the fuel thing is one of these things that it's like that was intended and It's just you know that that is your opinion that that is a big flaw It just is but a lot of people don't give a the knife isn't anyone can no one can deny that that's not a mistake Yeah, it's that's that's not why it's a mistake that no one can deny it You understand right like if someone said I deny the sun exists that doesn't mean the sun no longer exists objective No, I'm just saying that is like obviously an accident that knife thing right so there is that's objectively an error. Yeah That's it. We've done it. That's it. That's all we wanted But all I wanted to say is that's not that's not similar as the fuel thing, but whatever that's In your opinion it is as important. So that's your opinion and that's fine, dude I don't I don't hate you for that. Just say in my opinion. This is as bad as the knife thing We were talking about how bad the knife is compared to how bad Yeah, we thought you were I'm sorry. I thought you were I thought someone said that okay my bad Thought I thought that was the point you made I'm good. I'd have to look back on how everything just went but I'm almost I could have sworn someone just you disagreed hardcore with the objective thing, but now it seems like you're on board with it What do you mean? I disagreed with the objective you were like you can't be objective It's not possible. I thought you were saying that The film is objectively bad because of these plot holes and not all of them are equally bad So you can't say like okay. This is the thing that made the film bad That's your opinion so many people have different reasons for hating this film I guarantee you there are people that don't give a fuck about those plot holes But hate the movie for other reasons. Do you think the quality is defined by how much someone enjoys it? I hate to say it but kind of yeah, we're talking about entertainment I mean, there are movies that are terrible that people love and you can't say they're bad because people get enjoyment out of them Why would you make that distinction that they're terrible yet people love them? Because okay, so if it depends on the genre because something like this It's it's different than critiquing like a four quadra, you know, this is a family film And it's meant for all these different people around the world. I'm sorry it is So No, there are people that are probably not you guys that may be listening to this Yes, who would hate the fact that this is becoming like this diverse evolved inclusive thing Okay, there you go, so That's something that you could argue is a flaw, but that's also something that some people fucking love about it and empowers them Okay, is the room objectively good or bad? Okay, if you're gonna use the room as like think of a different movie You know how many comments I've gotten on my video or you like the room it's like dude get another movie. Yes, the room is bad We all know that. Okay. All right. Well, so you can objectively Is that objectively bad? So the room is objectively bad. Well, if you're asking me, is it like just worthless? No, people I didn't say that You're right in the subjective thing like it's like it's the end of day is Is the room objectively bad? If you are talking about like film craft and acting. Yeah. Yeah, it has blatant fuck ups. Yeah, it's like But it's entertainment Lee Yeah, but it's entertainment that gives a lot of people love watching a lot of quality Do you see how your position is un-toddable? I'm saying you have to make the distinction between like This kind of bad and that kind of bad nothing is black and white like you guys just want to be like, okay This is a bad film. You you admitted that you like stuff in the last Jedi So you have to at least say it is not a fully bad film No, but we're saying that whether or not we like something bad would be if everything was bad To me like Fully bad is when every single thing sucks and you go every single thing in the room is bad Arguably, yeah, I would disagree with that. I disagree with it too I like when they rate movies, you know critics and it goes from a lot of people Fully bad Decided that's like the worst movie ever made. So I don't care about them. I'm just saying what people are saying I don't care what other people are saying the point is and I like the you use the word craft in there at one point Lee so Storytelling or story writing is a craft Oh, yeah, so we let's let's boil this down as far as we can see if we can well I don't know if you'll agree with this anyway, but let's just say it would it be theoretically possible For a movie constructed of a story to be definitively Of bad craft in terms of writing. Yes, if yes, absolutely if the writing has no dramatic effect and the audience is really not invested So what the craft's efficiency will be determined by the audience's reaction Hold on. Are we talking about the the writing only writing only Okay, there are plenty of ways to have bad writing I know a lot of people say this movie is bad writing and yeah, if you're talking about like the plot holes Yeah, you could say That could be better, but there's also so much stuff in this movie that is genuinely Impressively written. I mean just the fact that they were able to make a movie that Not only is a totally fitting sequel to force awakens. It works as a sequel It also is a sequel to okay, but I people think that so I don't care what people think Stop mentioning what people think we don't care what I don't think then why am I on your show, dude? Because that's why you're here. Not those people. We don't care about those people So we can always find somebody who thinks something it doesn't matter So you only care about what I think about and not other people Yes, that's why you're here I didn't know I was the center of attention. Well, you're the you're one of the two Dude, I don't think that my opinion is the only one that matters I I'm I'm that's as you could tell I'm referencing a lot of people All right, well It doesn't what other people think it pops up all the time. Oh, yeah Well, some people think that it doesn't matter you could always find somebody who thinks something It's strange that you a connector you you acknowledge the craft But then you seem to judge the degree of quality by how much people enjoyed No, no, no, I'm talking about a general Term here. So like you take a carpenter who's trying to just create an accurate what you're saying structurally sound Smooth chair complete with all of the greatest joints and then everyone in the world hates it. That does not mean it's a bad chair By the standard set in the craft it would okay. I think I think what I was trying to say was that When you're writing really the most important thing is to just make the audience care to make you want to see more And in in that sense this movie succeeded I mean you got to at least admit that you were because I didn't I don't care I don't know that there's a movie that exists that if everyone watched it everyone says they don't care about it Dude, there's I mean, you're right. No, okay fair enough But that's what I'm saying is that that standard is ridiculous. I don't understand It's Okay Well, that's what what percentage of people have to care for it to be when you when you write a script You can't just say oh this character did this you have to establish. Why are we caring about this person? No, oh script can literally do that Yeah, but it's not as effective people won't be as invested It depends on how solid the it depends on how solid it is Depends on how solid the script you're saying you're saying the movie doesn't need to make you care So like you'd agree that a story is defined by a progression of events, right? That's how we go. You go a b c d e f g So like that's the reason we don't go from Luke sitting with his aunt and uncle and then cut to him fighting Vader because it's like well, you got the payoff for his That's his complete. I was like, yeah, but we didn't get the progression. We don't know how he got there so um The what we're we're tackling is all of the continuity all the problems we have so continuity in in character in the Uh comparison of the theme applying to the narrative the what the film tells us This is what we see and all of the law and everything that came before All of them can be considered continuity issues because that's what storytelling is So you think this film did more telling than showing that's what you're saying I'm saying it fails continuity on most significant levels It fails to tell its story within the standard of storytelling. It's a badly written film But I understand that it works like this is going to go on forever It is because I'm just going to repeat myself. I'm just going to say like no, it's fine No, no, here's here. I'll this last time. This is the last time I'll say this I won't I won't this will be my last word You think That the continuity is bad and the story doesn't Grip you and all that stuff. You're not wrong for feeling that way. You're not gripped by it Okay, but so many people are that's it. I'm done. I won't repeat it I'm the final word. I will see before we move on to get the rest of the chat Um When you I acknowledge the continuity errors like the fuel like the whatever else just acknowledging their existence Then we've agreed. We're done objectively subjectively. How much it bothers you is completely up to all of us individually Objectively poor subjectively could be incredible Yeah, I mean it's that's what rags is talking about when he says objectively. I hear it I feel it. It's just you know, you you got to Give a little more credit to the fact that this isn't the only This isn't the consensus of everyone who saw the film. No, I don't have to give any credit to that That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. It was gonna be divisive. We've never said anything that would contradict that. That's fine All right, anyway, gotta give credit gotta give credit. So, uh Ackon said wait, so what was Han's motive in esb? I'm not sure what he's referencing exactly esb Um, his main motive is escape in that movie most of it I mean, they were one ship. They didn't even have a choice Um, I still feel bad reading stuff like this. This guy is so full of shit. Sorry guys. Can't keep watching. See you next week. So I hate to make you lose a viewer. It's it's fine. Uh, this guy is writing 50 shades of dark side as we speak hopefully Disney didn't have the option of a palpable sexual tension between kylo and rail virtually any character in my opinion too mature Possibly Ask fin About wait ask about fin not knowing about hyperspace tracker then knowing about it. He was a janitor on star killer on the supremacy Yeah, I've heard that argument. Yeah, I was gonna say well I we're gonna do our best to actually like wrap up. So I'm just gonna try and shoot through these now How would you objectively criticize level design? That's a whole topic. I can't really get into it right now The inside of the falcon is like jarrod's door beautiful Short arch good Luke is better in the sequel trilogy. Get out lee. You're a joke. I now have cancer thanks to this podcast Majorly gave him cancer mark hamill himself thinks that luke wasn't really luke in the last Jedi Because he plays the character. Of course, he's gonna have like Dude mark hamill and andy circus 100 understandable why they weren't nuts about their characters dying They play them The only person that was happy about his character dying That's not the reason he had a problem I'm just saying it's understandable that he Didn't like the risky direction that his character was taking it He thought it was gonna be easy and giving the fans what they expected. I get it. He's not wrong I'm saying it would be easy It it would be though that would be lazy 30 years meeting fans and finding out what they like about luke scowalker and then some guy came in I don't see how that would be easy. Apparently it's very difficult because they didn't do it. No Majorly's defense the last Jedi the longest meme in history Lee I'm a film major. I specialize in script writing directing the last Jedi is objectively bad You you type of people make me not want to try my best to make a well-written and directed story Not let me discourage you dude. I'm nobody like please take it. Let's take this less seriously lowered so much Who the fuck am I like don't let me affect your writing or whatever you do Um, is this stream still on when I saw the notification? I was fighting with the highwayman close to prosperity in Fcnd. What's that? Are crying you don't oh Mola rags veto shut up. Don't you know that nothing is true? Of course Make sure you read this Tell lee to f himself. Wow That's thank you. Love you too. Oh friend yourself lee friend yourself friend yourself Three hours have gone by and no videos have been reviewed. Well, let's get it. This will be the first e-fap where that's happened I think right next time. Yeah, we're reviewing a big video called the last Jedi Um that response at the end from lia's earned my respect from literally only watching the e-fap the folks done I'm way better than eric jack and quinton of course I heard a lot of you're not wrong and i'm not gonna argue that from the guy who's super happy about looking at women Yep, yeah, what's wrong with that? Tell me what's wrong with that? I i'm i'm not getting The flaw in that statement or anything like that I gained a lot more respectfully after this and if I was on board with your film critique style I would certainly be subscribed love the stream nice fallout video veto Thank you. Thank you. Oh, oh veto. Oh my god. I made a fallout. It's it's a meme. Oh, okay That's great. Uh my fallout video. That's that's a meme. Jesus. There's so many names e-fap is including myself You should see the e-fap memes. Uh, thank you for coming. Godly. Oh, there you go. Nine is co-written by bbs guy with jj. Yeah There's terry. Oh, yeah Even dc's worst animated movie is better than most of the live action stuff Oh, well, I saw flashpoint paradox. I really liked it Uh, what do you guys think of man of steel and bbs? You should do an e-fap on twin perfects Why you're wrong about mos and you're wrong about bbs and make a couple of good arguments and a bunch of crap ones I um go watch veto's what killed the dce you there you go That'll be the couch. Uh, we might check out something like that at some point. Um We've got loads of things planned for e-fap. Honestly, even the name of my video It's no who killed the dc extended universe. Go watch it. You're gonna love it Six times isn't brendan frazier gonna be in a dc movie No, he's gonna be a doom patrol on tv. It's gonna be a One of those dc They have their own streaming channel now. Yeah Good because last time I saw he plays a robot man. So you don't even see brendan frazier. You just see a robot No, well, you get his voice. I guess Uh, six times watching plot holes e-fap genuinely not bored. Oh, there you go Last e-fap wolf said he had it pre-ordered on on stream before they took it off. Don't worry. He has a metro Oh, yeah, he does have it. I just don't know if he's played it yet Did you talk about kylo and rey mine bridge or carlos was in the cave and rey was in the millenium falcon After snokes death in the last jedi I think they're saying like how she we don't see her go from thingy to thingy. We just hear that she got into a Uh, snokes a skateboard saying that Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, okay How about the fact that kylo and rey were still connected even after snook got sliced that could mean either He's alive or that now they're connected for good Which is interesting It's episode nine. Well, that's that question As someone who covered you li I appreciate you coming on e-fap. We've got balls I lost more brain cells listening to you than watching evangelical you and a lot of respect from everyone though. There you go I feel like I'm in a netflix, baby Rags is your mom's but here's the thing Is it the new version or the old one? I don't know the old one Rags is your mom single No, she's married to my dad Should have been like she should be like my mom's dad Anyone get big jarred vibes from lee creamy baggins Jared is that like subway jarred? I'm assuming jarred's another meme on this podcast So, I don't know. I can't keep track of this meme history with the show. It's thick man. The shit is dense Uh, you guys got more jukerra is the best waifu you uncultured swine Rags once said that jarred is like water on tdp. So that begs the question is jarred wet Do you want to give the definitive take on that rags? I mean, I said that jarred is like He he's very loose and he flows. He's not like a rock. He's like a reed blowing in the wind There you go. He is Relaxed he goes with the flow He follows his own path Kathleen kennedy is actually responsible for indiana jones land before time back to future bringing the ghibli films to us It's a shame. She tied herself to this ride herself tired herself to this Yeah, I have no idea what she's Specifically responsible for I don't know how much influence she truly had on everything, you know Who the fuck knows? Uh air can be humid, but can it be cold wet? Rags another one for you Yeah, yeah, there you go. Uh fapping to efap my proudest fap beautiful color isn't real Little babies that haven't heard about chromatis Chromaticity of black body radiation Planky and slash black body locus and wavelengths prove it I'm assuming he means they prove color. I don't know. Oh, no, no color. Is it real for adults either? Uh Love you guys. Okay, you got leon here. I'm impressed young mohler. Well, he he wanted to come on and we're always uh We're always okay with someone who's been covered to just jump on if they want to More money for slanash. I know rags and wolf worship her him it together Yeah It's been it's been one week since you looked at me slash cocked your head to the side and i'm Angry five days since you laughed at me. Oh wait, is this lyrics? I'm I think it is. Do you cock your head up people? Is that like a thing you do? I mean I don't think so one week. Yes. We have a meeting that shows it One week Stand powers greater than force powers changed my mind. What are stan powers? Like a super fan like a stan. I don't know. Is that what I am? Am I a stan? Is that what they're saying? I have no idea. Um Kaki ion, did you lay this egg? Okay, all hail efap. Yeah, lee. There wasn't a consensus about anything going on on that island Good, there shouldn't be i'm glad I I that's the thing right the conversation was about what do we think of where they took it? I was just saying people were expecting him to be reading books and training and yeah good. That shouldn't be the consensus. I'm glad good to hear Uh, maybe jar jar wasn't the key to all of this Funny how Q at drive yards the largest producer of capital ships in the galaxy made all the first order star destroyers without the republic noticing Yeah This is a serious question for veto. What kind of sound what kind of sounds of satisfaction Would you make if I were to feed you ice cream sandwiches and tickling your belly button while sucking your toes? It'd be horrendous and not not suitable for human ears Give me a call later. And uh, you'll hear some squealing some sure you can Uh, groaning mola mola rags. I need you help claustrophobic is my game of tag It's a play on my old last name. I just changed my name to williamson. I need you help thinking of a new game of tag So That's no that's no small feat. I take I take names seriously Especially when I create them for me. So I set from mine, of course There's claustrophobic and he went to williamson. I don't really those two things like I don't Um, what's a cool online name that no one has yet guys Um, big moranus claustrophobia and williamson. Where was where his names? Um It I I'm not sure we might have to get back to him on that. I don't want to just spit out an answer Pimple pimple popper 69 I mean, yeah, they're welcome to use that if they'd like to you know, um, probably accurate Majorly, you have no clue what star trek is and what it's about Fair enough Uh, to rephrase the question Why did luke decide to abandon everything on account of something that was going to happen anyway and not caused directly by him It seems snow created kylo more so than luke He feels responsible, you know, he really is Now he is what's motivating snook snook is trying to find luke and You know and get him get rid of him Sure, he feels responsible for it My issue is just we have no substantive background of it all I have no idea what the hell happened and it'll be interesting if nine it wants to Nine could do so many different things. Uh Yeah, it'll be pretty tough for it to be strong. I would say, uh, corny does not equal stupid I mean to tie some old-fashioned sentimental majorly stop using stupid as a synonym for corny stop murdering english in front of the englishman Did I say stupid ever? I don't even remember saying that I'm sure we will say that at some point tonight Stupid I don't know if that ever came out of my mouth, honestly Uh, I love the room. Does that mean the room is objectively good? No, it doesn't saying the movie is objectively good It's like saying the earth is flat Well, well ringing up the room is like objectively bad Emotional response is irrelevant to objective quality molly. You like making poo Yes, but a lot way doesn't eric and jack like rags. Are they homophobic? I don't know. We never we never really knew for sure what it was that they had against rags specifically Uh, I don't know because the thing is they never met him as far as I know Uh art is about emotional reaction. However, that says nothing about skill and craft behind it A less skilled artist can draw something. I like over a good one. I mean, this is the thing if you get into any craft You'll have all of the the artists in the craft having a series of standards and and requirements And ways to improve, right All these things like stories aren't just anything like I think there's someone I think was left foot media on twitter said something like um three men walking to a bar seven women leave and then The apple rolls down the hill and the explosion killed 17 people you're like explosion from What you should be like the only way that story makes sense is if we get a reveal later that all of that was some like fucking acid dream from some guy Uh, right So like, you know, if you if that's all you had that selection could you call that a story? I'd be like probably not not not a story at all So it implies there are standards what we actually hold for What constitutes a thing and what doesn't and then the degree to which it can achieve it so but Uh stan powers are from jojo's bizarre adventure from party elm cv So that is the last super chat. Thank you all very much incredibly generous um and and and kind of you all I know that we didn't do any Memes this time around but uh the next if we will definitely do them. We've got some great ones on the way I got one long meme. He got me. I I guess uh, if you guys want to Do do a bit of a um, well, I guess I should say like just thank you both for coming on and that uh We'll probably have you back sometime both or either. Um, and the it's it's it's been it's been a lot of coming back on this stupid show I'll come on your show at some point. I didn't even know you were British. I would have never associated it. No Yeah, I'll be back on Yeah, maybe you want me to be the resident punching bag. I'm down, dude. Let's do it. I think people are clamoring for more lee Yeah, dude. I'm just a fame whore people in the chat are screaming for it Oh fame whore and I want to piss your fans off who want me to get the fuck off your show So, uh, thank you both for coming on the links to their channels will be in the description. Um the That I I really I just you know, I think you'll work the the the video is not going to be available for a bit So I'm gonna have to re-render it to connect it all together. So you'll see it on moola Uh, eventually there should be a link in the description as well for the second channel But that's gonna be on but is there anything you guys would like to say? Yeah, dude, when you when you see that rap video I put up you're gonna lose a lot of respect for me Just a morning. Okay, you're gonna be like damn dude. This fool's Lost it. But again, it's all just supposed to be funny. Just I hope you laugh at it. Don't get offended You're not mentioned in it. It's just you know It's all just about laughing for me I'm gonna say if you uh sat through this whole trash show you probably like trash So you're gonna love my channel, which is just garbage through and through Nothing, but not I'm very sold on it. I need to check this out like baby youtube.com slash veto We got the hard-hitting content you you want as a viewer as a consumer There you go the pep video and it's called berkeley protesters take the pep C challenge I'm uh, our worst video is a good one. Go ahead. I'm just gonna say I'm hoping to release the next part of the tfa thing By the end of this month, but I may I'm fast learning. I shouldn't promise anything or even suggest anything So, uh, don't hold out all forms of hope Uh, and yeah, I don't know if rags you want to sort of mention anything about your channel in any way Um, oh gosh, you they should probably be familiar with now Yes, they should but I will have a new video out tomorrow I was gonna make it today, but there was an e-fap and I wanted to be around. Oh, they won't wait. Yeah Yeah, there was gonna be an e-fap today I missed it because I was on this e-fap. Yeah. Yeah Debate so That about does it. Uh, thank you all for watching and and I hope you had lots of fun And thank you guests for uh, doing what you've been beautiful. Appreciate you And yeah, we always a pleasure. Yeah guys. I hope you had fun like I did. I mean, you know I uh, I would do it again. Let's do it again. Mm-hmm. All right Goodbye everybody. See you next time Farewell