 But I would first like to welcome Dr. Alide Berg. She is an assistant professor at the Maastricht University in the Netherlands and her research interests include the role, use and effect of scientific evidence in food related policies and legislation. She aims to contribute to improving our understanding of how consumers can best be informed about foods, especially when it comes to new technological food developments. Welcome, Alie. Thank you. Yes, you are allowed to clap. Next on stage, I would like to welcome Konstantinos Duros. Costas, for simplicity. For France, Costas. This is an official name with a full name. French, call me Costas. We're friends here. So, Costas, he is a professor in periatrics and periatric pulmonology at the National and Capodistrian University of Athens. Sorry, I have to read that. Evening Greek. And he is focused on pediatric allergy and pulmonology and has taken in the Stands for Health project the role of the challenging role, I would like to say, of recruiting children and coordinating the field research in Athens. And then last but not least, we also have Kai Hamson with us. He is the co-founder of the Twins Foundation and coordinator of the DRG for Food Horizon Europe project. And he is a trust and tag advocate. He is creating open source disposable identity to establish online trust. And Kai has already advised and coached various organizations on digital trust and cyber security, including leading the Charter of Trust initiative at Siemens. And he's the father of two as well. Before we going into the panel discussion itself, I would just like to remind that we also, you have your notes? Okay, that we also have the Slido open for the participants, of course, on site as well as online. So please don't hesitate to join us in questioning these four experts here on stage. We will also have some prompted questions later on. But the first round is basically open for everyone. But I think maybe what we can start with now is to have a little questions from ours. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, well, we're going to start this first round of questions. I would like to ask you, Daria, first, thank you for a very nice presentation. And regarding your main question based on the research presented, is the world ready for the eye diet? How can this app or any other personalized nutrition app gain popularity among consumers? It's these were two questions. So, well, as I presented, and I think that is the main takeaway from studying with large consumer samples. The eye diet app right now is not available to the masses. So we can't speak for real world adoption, but we can talk about the interest in consumers. And the interest is is large and the need for consumers to use those solutions is large. So I think that this app and personalized nutrition meets demand in the population that we have right now to, well, could you repeat the second question? Second is how could these type of apps get popularity among consumers? Yes. So I think my response to that would be, if the app would adopt some tagline along the chat GPT of personal health, then we would probably see skyrocketing adoption rates right now. But do you think that if health professionals would support these types of apps could lead to consumers to adopt it easily? Yes, that is actually what we find in our research, that the biggest reluctance in the majority of consumers is towards solutions that are solely based on artificial intelligence advice, but also not on advice from a doctor, which usually comes at a cost and availability. So the big advantage of providing personalized nutrition through an app is it is sitting in my pocket and in every consumer's pockets. So it is highly accessible, which is the perfect combination of having an agent such as a doctor who provides the trust into the advice and then having the accessibility, the interface to that advice readily on a daily basis. So maybe I'm going to jump to the doctor here and ask him, as a clinician, what is your experience with personalized nutrition in your sector and based on what we have heard today, can you discuss the potential impact of personalized nutrition on the prevention and management of chronic diseases in children? All right, I can talk as a pediatrician because there is my experience. In pediatrics we've never had a personalized kind of nutrition. The only thing I can recall is when I think 20 years ago there was a trend, we had some data then, in order to prevent allergic disorders in children, we tried to use partially hydrolyzed milk in infants. So the data we had, they were not very convincing and we ended up with some kind of recommendations and the kind of, if you think you can choose to give partially hydrolyzed milk and to see any results, that was the only thing. Some clinicians then adopted these recommendations. I wasn't one of them. I was never convinced of that and after a little time nobody used that. But this, the eye diet is something new. The eye diet and this kind of personalized diet targets the macro biome. Macro biome is a very central system to our body. It modulates the immunological system. It's very central to our defense system and to how we create as humans. And this is through some diet advice. So I think that if we can go to an eye diet application through this, we can change a lot of things. This approach, I think it's revolutionary. It can change things because we have two things. The first thing is that we can prevent many diseases. That's for sure. The second thing, which has the same importance, is that I think that we can augment the traditional therapeutic regimes. So you see, we very often provide drugs for some disorders. There are no perfect drugs. All drugs work up to a level. If we could augment their action through a modulation of the macro biome, and that means without adding another drug, that could be perfect. So I think if this eye diet can improve itself, it will be embraced by all clinicians. And you see, if a clinician gives an advice to a patient, patients usually follow this advice. So I think it's very, very crucial for the eye diet to convince the clinicians that it has a role in the promotion of health and then the other things, I think it will be much easier. Okay. So I guess there are some patients that follow the recommendations, but it's also difficult to know if they're following all the way. I mean, I think, for example, in this case, it's an additional challenge. The fact that you're providing some data, right? Kai, this question is for you. So for being accurate, personalized nutrition requires a huge amount of personal data, right? Together with the great potential and opportunities that such approach has for our nutrition and health, it also opens some questions and concerns about data and how is the data collected, handled and then used. Can you please talk about those aspects and the main open challenges related to security and privacy? Please. Yes. Thank you. Absolutely. And yes, wherever there's data, there are concerns, there are risks. The more data you use, the more you need to think about the risks. What we do in our project, DRG for Food, and I think also very relevant to the eye diet discussion and also what I heard today is to see it in a bit of a bigger context. Rather than just looking at privacy and security, I think it's the framework of trust that helps because trust needs to be built. It needs to be earned. And privacy and security for me and for us in the project are means to achieve trustworthiness, to build something that is trustworthy, to build an app that is trustworthy, and needs to be trustworthy in the eyes of the users, not me as building someone. I mean, I can trust that product. Yeah, that's nice, but it needs to be trustworthy in the eyes of the users. And privacy and security are two of the means to achieve that. They're not the only ones, I think. So there's more to this. I had a very good presentation early in the morning. I think it was the second or third one where there was also data integrity, but it's also human integrity. So how much data do you actually use? What's the business model behind? And there's more dimensions to trust. There's also who's actually running that app. It's not just the app. I mean, that's the technology. But beyond that, who's running the app? Who has the credibility or the trustworthiness to run an app? Let me give you an example. It makes a difference if Google is running that app. Or if it's, I don't know, the European Union or someone in the European Union or so, and that makes a difference. And then beyond that, and you mentioned something in that direction, there's also a relational element of trust means who else is using it or who's telling me to use it. So doctors enjoy trust and that is built over time. I mean, some of your patients, you know, for a long time, they're coming to the hospital, they see that building. So there's trust anchors, right? You have a nice title, and you dress like a doctor, you know, all these kind of things. I mean, there's in a good way, of course. So all these kind of things are kind of transporting trust. So we need to think about that bigger picture. And then going back to your question, privacy and security are very important in this day and age. The more things are digital, the more we need to think about privacy and security and data governance and integrity as parts of building that trust. And like I said, they're not the only ones. Thank you very much. So I think I would like to jump to the legislation parts, because as you mentioned, trust is very important. But how do we reflect and how we communicate this to the to the general public, the consumers. So Ali, I would like to ask you, currently, where are the main gaps in current legislations that need to be addressed to facilitate the development of personalized nutrition in Europe? Well, I think we talked about data and the use of data and a lot already. So I won't go into details on the GDPR or anything like that. That's also not my main expertise. So that's a good thing, I think. But what we also see is we talk about personalized nutrition also in the context of the project that you've been working on for the last few years, not just as a nutrition service, but also in its implementation in healthcare. And that's where different regulatory fields actually touch upon each other. Is it are we talking about a nutritional service? Are we talking about nutritional and more lifestyle related advice? Or are we actually talking about healthcare related services? If you see that, for example, on a product level, if we would talk about personalized nutrition, you cannot promise that a food product is actually treating a disease because by law it's immediately considered to be a medicine, a medicinal product by presentation. And we also see those borderline issues, those gray area issues between medicinal products, foods, other lifestyle related elements, medical devices, such things. We also see that when we talk about personalized nutrition advice or services like an app talking about a full dietary perspective. So you see that it's quite scattered. Lots of different elements are regulated already either on a European level or more on a national level. When it comes to healthcare, it's very often on a national member state level. So you have to be quite, I think an expert in that those different regulatory fields when you want to introduce something. And that makes it very complicated. And I can imagine that's a huge burden to actually introduce something with regards to a business model. That makes it quite complex. And I think if we want to make sure that we can move forward, it needs to be a bit clearer. I think these gray areas need to be unraveled a bit further. Thank you so much. I would like now to see if there are some questions from the audience. I'm going to give you my microphone. The two connected and slightly provocative questions. The first is, do we genuinely see that the eye diet is for the masses, everybody, and not just the worried, wealthy well? And I did warn you, it was slightly provocative. And the other question is, is if we do genuinely see it as for the masses, how do we cascade that down through society and reach the hard to reach groups who at the moment are more worried about where dinner is coming from, not the nutritional balance of that dinner? Thank you for your questions. Is anybody wants to answer? It was not addressed to anybody, so okay. Kai, go ahead, please. Well, I think quite frankly, I think all digital business models or digital approaches raise the question of inclusion. For me, that's given. That's the thing. I mean, I was also missing this a little bit in the studies earlier because I was thinking, what about demographics? I mean, there are certain age range ranges or certain people that might not even use digital technologies. They don't have a smartphone. How can they be reached? Well, certainly not through an app. Right. So yes, I think that question is there beyond people that care just to have something on their table. There is also a certain amount of skepticism towards digital technologies, by and large. So I think there's also a macro dimension to trust. We've seen this at play during the COVID pandemic. I mean, there were so good digital solutions to, you know, contact tracing and so forth. And the adoption rates in some countries have been disappointing. And why is that? Because the macro level of trust was not really favorable. And then tying this back to Ali, what you just said, on regulation, I think we need to think beyond regulation because the government can also do other things that just regulate, you know, and also going back to what you just said. So maybe the iDiet app at this point in time will not reach everybody because it can't. It can't because not everybody has a smartphone. Does that mean we should not do it? I don't think so because we need to pioneer the things and they need to sink in. And I'd rather have some of these positive examples, trying out things, and we saw that it does work for some people. And then we need to think about the dynamics of how change in our societies created and how new technologies or new innovations are being adopted. And then you need to start somewhere. And that being said, we just had that in my self in a break, we had this discussion that it's not just the utility of an app that defines if it will be adopted. And it's also not just the trust dimensions, but there's also in this day and age a trend and a hype mechanism around these things. So on TikTok or so there are trends or even before that ice bucket challenge doesn't make sense at all. I mean, it's an old example, I know, but I hope everybody knows it. It doesn't have any form of utility, but there's a hype generated around it and then people adopt it. So that is for me would be one of the questions. How do we make something like personal nutrition an ice bucket challenge that people really think they need to have this that need to be part of this because there's a fear of missing out. These are some of the dimensions we need to think about beyond the pure technology. And in that sense, no, I think it starts as something for a selected few and hopefully then triples and over time gets more accepted with the help of, for example, doctors and many, many other more. Maybe if you know all the people have access to mobile devices to use this approach of personalizing nutrition, maybe if we can, we are able to implement this kind of personalized nutrition to give the option to clinicians to use for their passions, regular passions. It doesn't matter if you are healthy, you know, for in primary care and they provide the personalized nutrition counseling to the, to the passions they have and the analysis of the gut microbiome could be another approach to reach little by little to the consumers, you know, and don't have some differences in inequality that they could have. Maybe. Absolutely. I think that from a clinical point of view, the eye diet is for the masses, but this will be in the long run. For the time being, we have to aim special patients group like celiac diseases or the allergic patients. For those who have data and after time and after the evolution of the eye diet and the data we collect every now and then. And I think that will be a very valuable tool for everybody. Yeah. I mean, I agree also on that. I think trust would be higher when you can already show some results that they have or the research. I mean, all what we're doing at the project is working has some impact on people's health. So I guess we're on the way of building this trust toward this type of technologies. We have some questions from our online, from our anonymous friends. Well, one of them is could accessibility be a challenge, particularly for vulnerable populations? Personalized nutrition apps might not be accessible to all users, particularly those who do not have access to smartphones on the or the internet. This could lead to any call access to the benefits of personalized nutrition interventions. Well, I agree. We were just discussing this. I think we just touched upon it. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, confirmation, I think from our side, what one could think about, and you mentioned it, is ways of adding an analog element to it for the time being. So not just offer something like this in a digital fashion or offer it through others. Same holds for children, for example, they cannot use the app. They shouldn't, probably it's not built for them, but somebody needs to use it for them. Or also a lot of people who are not in the state to use digital technologies. That being said, we need to be, of course, careful from a research point of view that we're not covering everyone. So whatever you learn from that app, you also need to be careful to incorporate that it is a selection of the population, which why am I saying this? I'm not a researcher myself, but I'm seeing this very often that I was recently at the presentation and somebody said, why we have this new algorithm analyzing Twitter for the inflation rate. And I asked the gentleman if he knows the percentage of people that are actually on Twitter, and he didn't. And that second question was, do you also know the amount of fake profiles on Twitter? Or so that he didn't know. So we need to be careful. It's a two-way street, so to say. It's a fraction of the population that will be on these apps and not necessarily all of them, as experience shows, are real people. But there are also people, there's actors interested in messing with the data that is being generated. Well, I think it's very difficult, sorry, to target all the population. I mean, for any type of product or development, you have a sector that is not going to be covered. So I guess these are good starts. And then having these questions on how we could target some other population strategy groups, it's a good start to start to reflect and maybe an idea for another project. I wanted to add that we first of all have to define what is a vulnerable person or what was it. Yes, who are the people who are vulnerable considered in this population and what are there? They just have different needs again. And then when we go back to what we studied with consumers, there's not one solution that fits all. And there will be one solution for people who are willing to adopt nutritional advice from artificial intelligence, but there are those who will never be swayed by AI and will go to the doctor and they will have a doctor. So vulnerable populations already are in care and maybe the solution is then not for them. But regardless, we can provide a solution to the masses because in this day and age, we see that the majority of the population do have access to smartphones and applications, mobile applications. And I do think to also reflect shortly upon the food security issue, if you think about who can adhere to the diet, who can actually make a financial commitment to buying the app, reaching out to potentially that extra dietitian or a healthcare professional in the additional part of the app or who can also stick to the dietary advice is based on what is recommended. I think that's again something to think about in potentially a new project because I think especially seeing the different effects of economic changes to the population that there is a larger group of the population, well, who has a more difficult time to actually get everything on their plate that they would need in a general way. So even personalizing it might be more complex for them. So considering that financial aspect and trying to make it as accessible as possible is something I think, yeah, that should be something for any researcher working on personalized nutrition that should be in the back of our minds to think about how can we make it as accessible as possible to any type of vulnerable population, whether it being access to smartphones, access to carriers or well financial aids, anything like that, make it as accessible as possible. I think, yeah, we should jump into the second round of questions. I just want to say that I think the dietit has also this feature that you could change the type of products. So depending if you can't afford it, for example, so I think that's something very nice that the app has to offer and yeah, maybe let's jump to the next round of questions. Yeah, I think otherwise we can probably discuss only on this point alone for the rest of the day. I would like to jump back to Dario's now. You in your introductory presentation, you discussed if the world is ready for the iDiet app, but let's twist this around. Is the iDiet app or maybe personalized nutrition in general? Is this ready for the world at the moment and what could be next steps and technologies to be implemented in these approaches? Yes, there are many ways to answer this. So if we think about different type of populations like vulnerable groups, maybe the elderly, then this personalized nutrition advice should be provided through robots, but luckily those exist nowadays as well. One thing we learned from the studies is that there are some service aspects that are more valued than others and those would be the obvious ones that any future commercialization of an iDiet app should improve on and that would be, for instance, allowing access to some human agent who can back up if there are some questions, for instance, about the nutritional advice provided that what was highly valued is the aspect of personalization. So allowing that solution to input your own needs and goals, for instance, fitness goals, those would be all points to further improve such a solution in the market. Okay, thank you very much, Dario. So what I take from this is basically that there are a lot of different opportunities and possibilities to develop different kinds of technologies, be it like through targeted groups or be it like robots for seniors. So with all these technologies being developed and I'm looking at Kaino, they need to be developed, they need to be money that needs to be invested in that and one example is represented by the DRG for food project that offers small grants to researchers. Could you provide a bit more information on this initiative and highlight how it can ensure that the citizens' privacy is safeguarded in that amount? Well, in the project that we just started was actually not just it was in December, so it's half a year already, time flies. But I think we had a good start off to something very interesting because as you said, part of the project is to distribute in open calls some funding to develop enablers to develop tools that can be used for data sharing in the food system and this in a responsible fashion. So to build trust and I was talking about trust earlier, we think we need to build in responsibility and digital responsibility around privacy, cybersecurity, data governance into these tools and into the processes that go into developing these tools. And what I like very much about our approach and about the approach that the European Commission also asked for is that it is asking for a number of solutions, not just one. And why do I think that's a good thing because there are diverse challenges out in the food system? I mean, think about it, the food system, there's not one food system, there's many, there's so many stakeholders, virtually all of us are stakeholders in the food system, which makes it so interesting, right? But also the so challenging at the same time, that's one of the few systems that no one could say I'm not a part of because how could you? I mean, we're all eating, we're all some part of this of the system. Hence, the challenges are very diverse. Hence, we are looking for to create a number of tools and approaches for that food system. And to do so as a project, we're doing three things. It doesn't start with the open calls, but it starts with the right framework. So we're developing a framework on how do you actually bring in digital responsibility around privacy, cybersecurity, data governance, into our project, but also into the development processes, that's number one, kind of trust by design, if you will. So thinking privacy by design, cybersecurity by design, one step further. Second, we aim at supplying a toolbox for open call participants. We saw when the I died that was introduced, we saw this nice picture. I'm so sorry, Veronica, Veronica, you showed that picture of the Lego bricks. So into an app, there's a lot of pieces that go into. And that's what we would like to already provide open source to some of the open call participants, some of these Lego bricks, because there are a lot out there. But it's difficult to find them. So the idea is, maybe we can come up with a toolbox that enables others to take them. And with these Lego bricks come up with something really fancy, something really creative that we didn't think about. So the bricks as such, they might not be that interesting on their own, but developers and people out there are very creative, they can come up with something that is very nice, if you give them the Lego bricks in the first place. That's the toolbox. And then we give them in the open calls, we give them also some money to do so, not to play with the money, but to have the money to play with these Lego bricks in the framework that we provide. That's the idea. And we hope that something good comes out of this. Will all of these tools be ready for the market and perform like hell? No, they won't, because that's not how the world works. You need to try out things and some of them will fail. And that's exactly why we get public money to do that, and to incentivize some of these trials and try out some of the things. And now, if I may, I close the circle to the iDiet app and to this project. There's a lot of learning for us in this project, and that's exactly why we're here at the conference. And we aim to take a lot of these learnings and then kind of build them into the process from day one. So learn from this, build it into this, and I don't know, come up with maybe even collaborate with the iDiet app or whatever. I mean, there's so much opportunity here on the table. So, yeah, looking forward to doing that. Thank you. Great. And happy to hear that. And I think the project coordinator is also very happy to hear that. We'll talk later. That's not a threat. We'll see. Now, besides the technologies that we've been talking about, we also heard about different aspects. We heard about different research aspects. We heard about the microbiome very state-of-the-art science that is being researched right now, but also about different supplements, different solutions that can feed into a personalized nutrition. But they, as Gustavo said, they need to enter the market. I would like to ask Alina, is the regulatory framework somewhat ready for these relatively new approaches? And what are there for obstacles for people that want to bring these personalized nutrition solutions to the market right now? Well, I think, like I said, it's quite scattered. So you have to be very clear on what kind of product am I delivering? What is the scientific evidence behind the fact that it actually works? And can I promise that to my target group? And I think it's actually the interplay between the science and the legislation that makes it sometimes quite challenging. That, for example, at this moment in time, lots of nutrition and health claims that we see are focused on one ingredient of one food product focused targeting the general population. But if we want to move towards more personalized marketing of certain diets or certain food products or certain ingredients, we have to focus on different types of target groups. And me as a customer, I also need to know whether I do actually fall into the target group, right? So that's a mix of advices, services being offered, being available, being readily available, and the products that are marketed or that are showing me that I indeed should focus on those products. So it's really a combination of having the scientific evidence to market these products. And for some things, you can definitely develop these. And I think there's more and more products focusing on targeted approaches and more and more services, targeting certain consumer segments, but really making one personalized diet for me as a customer that might still be quite challenging to gather all the evidence available, make sure that I can indeed eat products that are maybe containing lots of tenants, which could be safe for me, but not safe for my neighbor. So these elements, these individual differences, these variations, they might actually be, well, underlying some scientific questions related to safety, related to health. And that's quite challenging, of course, in the regulatory framework, because we talk about food safety for the general population. We talk about health effects for the general population very often. So this targeted aspect, I think, needs to be more embedded. But there's a lot of possibilities already to start developing products, to start introducing products, services, and advices, definitely. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. I think it's good to also incorporate a little bit the questions or the input that we gathered from the various people that watch us right now online and maybe also from the audience. And one comment that kind of stuck out to me was actually apps replacing professionals like dietitians. That person does not think that it will work, but many of the patients don't know dietitians and prefer an app for simplicity of reason. Looking at costas being the clinician in the room, you worked with the people on site, you worked with the children, of course, and also their parents. How did it work for you in the stands for health trials? What is your experience from conducting this research? What was the feedback maybe also from the participants? We're here to learn. So the truth and nothing but the truth. And maybe also what are lessons learned from these feedbacks that you received? So what would you do differently with the knowledge that you have right now? Okay, the good news is that it wasn't very difficult to persuade them to enter the trial. And that was because there wasn't any intervention with a kind of drug. It was just food, healthy food. We explained them that this is a kind of thing that we will try to improve your health by giving you the right advice, right food advice. Okay, that was the good news. So not much difficulty here. The difficult thing was with the complexity of the advice. So people, parents had to follow the eye diet who was giving them some information, not information, some, yes. It was saying what to cook for the next day. So just imagine. In my country, please, usually in the families, both parents are working. Okay, I think that this is the norm in the most of Europe. So mothers usually cook. They come back from work at home at five or six in the evening. So they have the advice from the eye diet, what to cook. Let's say that they start to cook. Okay, they make the meal and then they have to face their children. You see, children are difficult. Children are peculiar. Children sometimes are weird. When they say no, they mean it. It's very difficult to change their mind. So what the mother will do, she will try for a couple of minutes to change their mind, to make them accept the meal. 99% they will fail. After a couple of minutes, she has two choices. The first is to cook something very quickly, like an omelette or fried potatoes. All right, the other thing is to order a pizza, or schvulak English. Okay, not very healthy. That's what most mothers face when they come back from work. And on top of that, think that the mothers are tired. Sometimes they are exhausted. They don't have the nerves even to say to the eye diet, today, instead of chicken with potatoes, I give them schvulak. Okay, sometimes even that. Even this thing to say to the eye diet that we made a change is difficult for them. And this is one thing. The other thing is that mothers have to think for the whole family. Usually when they cook, they don't cook for the child, they cook for the whole family. Families and children, because usually they have other children in the family, they have preferences. Many preferences for the taste, for the texture, for the filling in the mouth, for the, for the smell. My daughters never ate chick beans because they didn't smell well. They didn't like the smell. They never tasted them. This is something very, very common in children. So they have to think the other children, they have to think the whole family. It's not easy. So I think that in order for an application to work properly, they have to know the preferences of the family as a whole, not only for the children. It has to be targeted in the family. Another thing, another difficulty was with the supplements, the tonic supplements. What was the problem? The biscuits, the biscuits with the cocoa biscuits were hard. They were hard to chew because it wasn't easy for the children to chew them. So they tried them for a few days and then they stopped using it. They stopped eating them. Even if they were not hard, they, I'm sure that they would, they would soon get bored of them. You see, children are getting bored very easily. You need to have a lot of choices in order to give supplements. Try jellies next time. Okay, jellies. Biscuits of different flavors, of different textures. That will be very important in order to accept, to eat supplements. These were the problems we've met. And you see, although we, a few months ago, we saw that some of these problems were insuperable. We cannot cope with that. So we decided to create something like a helpline. I found a volunteer who was on the telephone seven days a week. She was taking phones from parents who were asking for technical things, advice on the food, how can I cook this? I do not understand this recipe and all that. Even that, it didn't overcome the problem. Even with that, we still had problems. So it's very difficult. Children are a very difficult population. We have to think of very, very, very aspects of this problem if we're going to succeed with AI diet. Okay. Thank you very much, Kostas. I think it's very important to have this view also on the real direct feedback from the people that are actually eating and trying out these products. And of course, personalized nutrition also starts with personalized taste buds. So yeah. I think you also gave us some little testimonials that Yes. Are you going to show them? That would be the plan, yes. Okay, but just a warning. Those testimonials are not representing of our population. There are three parents that they are of higher education. Two of them are doctors and the other is a psychologist. So you see, they are very, they could very well understand what we were trying to do and that this thing could was very good for the health of their children. On top of that, I attended a children for many years. So they didn't want to make me unhappy. So they were a bit more polite than I would like. Morning from Athens, Greece. My name is Evangelia Lyaku and I am a participant in your study. I'd like to congratulate you for a very interesting modern and forward thinking research model. The mobile app was really user friendly and so easy to navigate through it. This has been a prime chance to utilize a healthy and nutritional lifestyle in my family. The only feedback I'd like to share is that some recipes were complex and quite specialized for our kids' dietary habits. I wish you success and good results. Bye from Athens. Hello. It was a great experience that we got involved in this project. Congratulations for this innovative and I hope more initiatives like that will take place in the future. It was great for us that we adopted new and healthy habits and I think that our children improved their gut system. Taking part in this study, we're considering the meaning of food intake and we're happy to be involved in similar projects in the future. Congratulations and thank you. Hello everyone. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to being a part of that great project. Initially, I thought it was quite difficult but eventually, being through the process, it was quite interesting and not that difficult at the end. I have to admit that the IDI gave me some good ideas about healthy meals and I think I will follow those even after the end of that project. But I have to admit that there were some difficulties. Some recipes ideas were not quite close to our lifestyle and what we used to do here in Greece but I think with some changes I managed to get through even some difficult recipes once as well. I hope that more projects like that will take place in order to ameliorate more family's lifestyle and leading to a more healthy society. Thank you very much. Okay, I think that was some real life example, some real life feedback I think even if we have to take it with a grain of salt of course but I think it's good to have these voices from the public. Looking at the time, I think Camilla, do you want to go over to the third round of questions or do we do you have something in mind for the questions that we have from Slido right now? Let's try to go like very quickly through the last questions and try to incorporate some of the questions that we have from the public otherwise we're going to answer all these questions after the conference. So Darius, with the availability of several breakthrough innovations, AI, metaverse and so on, their potential applications in personalized nutrition is yet not fully realized. Can you think or suggest possible future uses or developments of these technologies and personalized nutrition? Yes, so I think the background right now for any consumer is that the consumers typically now live in a world where they're extremely under pressure, they're under time pressure, they're under resource pressure facing high inflations and then they also face environmental threats that also face threats to their personal health. So I think that artificial intelligence is going to be part of the solution and we are just entering that age of artificial intelligence and one major contribution in the future will be right now the entire data that is used for this personalized nutrition is just based on small samples compared to when we will see larger adoption and actually can harvest the data from many, many more users and then use artificial intelligence to actually uncover the secrets behind the microbiome that will then further help to improve personal health. And then make it more precise, I mean to make the output, indeed. So I'm going to jump to Kai and Darius' question at the beginning of his presentation. What are the primary steps that should be taken and by whom to ensure that such innovations are trustworthy by default, especially with regards with the citizens' data rights? Well, I think it starts with that awareness and with that goal in mind and I literally mean it starts with that goal in mind. So I do not think in this day and age the question should be okay we have a bit of data what do we do with it but more like what's the use case and also the examples that you've given cost us show that. I mean all of these examples and also the quotes we heard were some of my needs were not met and the needs are multifaceted. It's not just the nutrition that matters in food but it matters the life situation, it matters the habits and so forth. So making sense of these actual needs and then tying database approaches to them for me is a given and then doing this always having in mind considerations around privacy, cybersecurity, data fairness, putting the human first and not the data, these kinds of values I would even say. So trust can be based on principled behavior so we need to be very clear of these principles at the very outset of designing tools, solutions, digital approaches. I think we're getting there. It's not just a matter of regulation meaning GDPR, it is also a matter of regulation but in my view being trustworthy goes beyond compliance. So it's not enough to be compliant as we did GDPR, we did that but it's a bit more than that and I believe that this will even make apps that are built on this more competitive because where they're better received on the receiving end by the users. At least that's still my belief and that's our belief in the project and we're trying to demonstrate that and it's easy to say that of course we still have it ahead of us but that's our belief, that's our promise in the project and let's see at the end of 2025 if we achieve that these results and then maybe even exploit them beyond the project. That's of course the hope. I would like to add also that it's on how we communicate this information to the users and the consumers because we can have everything stated but we really have to understand what are the needs and how do they think to communicate it properly so they get the trust in the product you're selling. Just one sentence to this absolutely, I think the communication and the transparency piece here are key and I think that's a core difference to how we looked at privacy and security and data in the past where yes it was built in somehow but now I think we need to make it more visible so I'm talking about explicit trust rather than implicit trust right so we need to make it explicit. These are the principles that for example the iBuy diet app are based on if you want read a little bit more about it here 90% of the people won't do that but the very fact that they could that's the trust piece. Well thank you Kai I'm gonna jump to Ali now and I would like to ask you according to your expert opinion what are the top three urgent actions that legislatures at the European Union and at the national level should take regarding personalized nutrition? I think it needs to be clarified from a policy perspective and maybe from a societal perspective in general what do we expect from personalized nutrition and what does fall under it and what promises shouldn't we make also in our research and in the projects that we do that's that's a very important aspect this these gray areas they need to be further unraveled I would say and I think one of the comments that was that was on the screen is also for example that there is a certain that this anonymous person is is afraid I think for certain AI well a fake elements a fake information and I think if I look at my students who can write very interesting papers using chat GPT but and very convincing papers with very convincing well BS I have to be very honest about that but that's that's also chat GPT well supporting them and if you're not extremely knowledgeable on the topic you might be very easily convinced because they can even help you AI even helps you to get a reference so I think we need to make sure that the evidence base the evidence base should be should be the core of everything that is done and I think this is one of the projects showing how important that evidence base is and building that evidence base further and I think that's a second point that policy advisor should should push forward to increase that evidence base and I think one of the things we we see in the personalized nutrition spheres that lots and lots of different initiatives are taken and that's also one of the comments I think of of some of the online viewers is what about the abundance of different types of apps and services available and I think trying to combine these different elements doing that in projects like yours trying to make it feasible to use different sources of information that our collectors already through for example European projects and building upon that further should be stimulated as well trying to make it data interoperable trying to make it as fair as possible that it's used interchangeably that would also be something that policy should be recommending so it's not just regulations that need to be unraveled but there's more towards I think the science that should be pushed forward thank you very much Ali and now to finalize the the stir rounds and the friends I would like to ask Kostas there was a comment before about the the the test of the microbiota and and all these fickle sample tests they're not they're not common in the really regular checkups that we do at the doctor every year so I don't want to influence your answer here but how do you envision personalized nutrition being integrated into medical care and what are some of the barriers to implementing this type of approach barriers yeah yes first of all we need money the most of us has said that we need money we cannot do anything without that why we need money because first of all we have to to build all our knowledge on the microbiome we have to learn what exactly this microbiome is doing and how it it interferes with our body so that needs lots of basic research we have to know all that and then we have to try to implement it in medicine the barriers after that we have to wait to be adapted by the professionals I think the professionals doctors are the key if they adapt it then it would be easy you see I've said that before the private sector the private sector in medicine usually is is looking for those things I mean if if we know that there are some very good data and some good guidelines about the microbiome sooner or later there were very much laboratories that would will analyze the microbiome and then this will be the next step the next step will be for the the the public sector to adopt it one step and then the second step and that's it but till then we have a lot of things to do thank you I guess it's like try to work more in the prevention of diseases than the treatment of diseases at the end yes that's another thing I think there's a key point here in order for this kind of applications to work they have to be very simple they have to be simple and flexible we don't have to expect to to go and doing like this question like this they have to go into the house and ask something like that like Alexa Alexa turn on the light please I died what will I have to cook today spinach with rice okay no I don't have that and supermarkets are closed now any other possibilities oh yes you can something like that and the other thing is that if we want to to start the and intervention like this and to expect good results especially in the the field of prevention of the diseases we have to start it early that's for the for two reasons the first one is that we know that the macro biome changes very quickly in the first few years and these changes seem to be very crucial they seem to modulate the immunological system so the first two years also the first two years are very crucial for another thing we know that children adapt to different tastes I think I mean that they they they choose their preferences with what they are going to eat in the first two years so if we give them a lot of choices a lot of healthy choices then they most most likely will keep those choices and in their later in their later life so it will be more easily to implement an intervention like this later because they will will will know those foods and they will not object to eating them thank you so much Kostas I don't know about the time yeah I mean time is run out time we're always running out of time with these encouraging and interesting discussions I think there is never enough time I would maybe like to close this I'm sorry I just can't undo it but looking back at the the introductory presentation from Darius maybe in one sentence could you answer the question is the world ready for personalized nutrition is the world ready for I diet in one sentence in one word yes I think I think there's an asterisk asterisk to it write everything I said earlier about tasks and all these kind of things Kostas yes it's ready for the first step okay Ali I'm going to agree with the yes and the very annoying but we have to unravel some aspects both well from a legislative perspective but especially from a scientific perspective and finally Darius it better be because we're facing very much challenges to our personal health and general dietary guidelines don't cut it in this day and age where we have so many allergies and so on where personalized nutrition can prevent diseases and the world is ready and we just ran a study with real advertisements online for a personalized nutrition service app and with 17 000 impressions we got like an interest rate of 4.9 percent which is above average for ads online so we do see the interest is there and this is evidence for the world is ready and it's going to be exciting to see what the users will make out of it fantastic that was a very long sentence but I think we would like to close this interesting panel discussion now thanks so much to all the panelists on stage here Jose I'm sorry that we took a little bit of your time but I guess you will say a few words and I wanted to thank the online audience for the very good questions and we didn't have time to address them but there were brilliant questions we will come back to the online audience and I also think they deserve a special round of applause maybe even for the very interesting contribution and inputs to that so thanks everyone thanks for this panel discussion and just before we close the conference I would like to ask you like if you're wondering or have you asked yourself about this one like we didn't create it for ourselves these little ones were developed and they were given to the children that were part of the interventions so they could feel motivated and more engaged to follow the advice from the from the app so that's why they were created not just for fun yeah I can serve as a pillow or yeah so yeah I think we're ready to finish thank you very much as Stefan said I don't know if you would like to say a final word no okay okay you have to I don't think there's any way around it you are the organizers of the meeting so at the end you are the responsible of the bad things I know I know I know always that even if you are a German or not doesn't matter if you want to be strict with the time we are always run out of time so I didn't prepare anything for the for my last speech here so it's not a speech it's just a very long sentence okay just I would like to acknowledge to all of you for being here okay and to to still be seated there with your bottom flat plane put it there with such a much a long time I enjoyed a lot today I learned a lot I'm also very happy when we were preparing drafting the the project okay in 2017 long long time ago you know um I took many information you know from previous project funded projects only you know for for me okay I said oh we are going to to extend what they do in what they did in that project and now I'm checking that other projects I'm going to extend what we are going to do and so I think that this is something that that that really matters and doing things and we are contributing to the spread the not research to spread the knowledge and improvement of human beings you know so at the end all our effort you still need to be more effort okay till the project close don't don't worry about that it's something nice so finally I must confess also I'm also a sinner not the same kind of sinner but I know that I press all my partners to work a lot but I must confess I love pressing people you know to work and to do things this is my reality but I almost confess that I learned a lot from you for from all of you okay I suffer your maids calls all the things you know but you know that I must say here in the public manner that at the end you know that just a little bit part of my heart will be always with you okay you know that I'm here just to say thank you so much for being here and just enjoy in a couple of hours with some beers or whatever outside okay so thank you thank you for our external speakers for being here today we appreciate you being here also for the project partners and let's go for the networking now thank you for the online audience also to be with us and we're gonna have the the recordings of the sessions and also the the questions answered in yeah very soon so well thank you so much bye