 You know, there are two women's narratives here in the book. One is the oppression side and how women are controlled. But the other is there are these four women who are close friends. There's a sisterhood of women, as it were, and one of the bonds between them is that they have never been taught to self-efface. You know, they express their views. So in that setup, there is this discussion about the fact that women are entitled to sexual satisfaction, which then probably through history has been ignored. Sex has been a man's sport or prerogative. Sport is probably more accurate. Yes, I mean the husband's right and so on. So that aspect is there too. So we have two kinds of women, the very, the determinedly independent woman who knows her mind and does not give into this. And the other side is the women who are responding to a Baba's call among us that Hindu women must have at least five children, at least five children. This is actually the reverse of the propaganda that Hindus have two children and Muslims have five and they might outnumber us. Yes, so to make the Hindu population grow. I also wanted to mention this. The caste already, of course, has a spatial division in India, especially in rural India. But increasingly we see this in our metros as well, that if you are a Muslim, for example, you might find it quite hard to rent a place. But in your novel, what we hope will not happen in the immediate future, there is complete ghettoization. And it's sort of like little regions, little areas which are kept aside for the Muslims. If they come to the mainstream areas, they have to have Hindu names and so on. So, you know, I wanted you to describe some of this, which is half of it is here. If you're a pessimist, you'll say three-fourths of it is here. But you actually take it the entire way and that is the warning. That what might happen. Yes. Yes, a story is a story. So one thing comes out of another. But the story is very close to reality, which is why we have to take it seriously. All stories come out of reality, but they go their own way. Actually, I don't know if that would happen. I really don't. That is, of course, my imagination. But the fact is that enough is happening. In the emergency of 1975, we knew that we're in a dictatorship because the opposition had been put in jail. All debate had been crushed. The constitution had been amended to take away our right to life and liberty. So it was a clear dictatorship. And we knew exactly the situation we were in. Now today it's much more dangerous because all that is happening under the guise of democracy. We are told we're a democracy. And yet those very things are happening and much worse is happening. As I said earlier, mob lynchings, public murders and so on are going on and the killers are not even apprehended or convicted. So it's a much, much worse situation than it ever has been. I wanted actually to ask you to speak to our young people, a part of the audience, about the way forward. What should we do as not just writers or lawyers or parliamentarians, but as citizens? Where do you see cause for hope? What is the call you would give out? You know in India we are now seeing uprisings on the part of different groups of citizens from different areas of life. From scientists, from historians, filmmakers, movie stars, women, Dalits, all these people are reacting to this situation. But the communication which is happening between class and mass is significant also. We have a number of civil servants who are taking part in what they call a mohabbatka safar, a love journey, journey of love. From the northeast to Gandhiji's ashram in Gujarat, which is making common cause with people who have suffered horribly in past massacres and present rapes and killings which are going on. These are all signs of hope and signs of giving courage to people who have suffered. And apart from that, the class we call artists and writers is a very obstinate bunch of people. They will not keep quiet. So we will speak at every opportunity about what is happening and some of great rationalists. Very fine journalists has recently been murdered. Three rationalists before that have been murdered. Other writers have been hounded. One writer had a threat that his fingers would be cut off if he continued to write as he did. All this is going on. We don't care. We are going to keep doing what has to be done because this society which since independence has been a society which has given freedom, not only of expression but of religion, of the way to eat, the way to live, the way to dress, whom to fall in love with. All these have been our rights as Indians. We are not giving them up. Quite right. Let's revisit 2015 Nainthara when all of us were talking almost every day. And I recall it because it was a moment when it wasn't just writers and academics and historians and filmmakers but also scientists, which I thought was very important, that everyone came together to say that as a gesture of protest we will return our state awards. And in protest against not just the murder of the rationalists, this was soon after Kalburge was killed, but also a clock if you remember. And since then there have been several other murders. So what are the ways, there's a young person in the audience who's asked what are the ways to defeat Parivaar of hate and those murdering writers and reformists. And in answer I thought perhaps you could revisit that moment and what are the ways in which we can actually reinvent that. I think I partly answered that by the last conversation we had, which is that all these movements are going on by various people. I didn't mention Tista Settilwad for one who's fighting, still fighting for the victims of the Gujarat riots. It's doing actually taking on the existing horrors which confront us and trying to do something about them which convinces those people who've suffered that something is being done to help us and which creates a climate of love in a vitriolic climate of hate. And also restores the ideology with which the country was created because you have always pointed out that it's the prevailing ideology which is behind all these numerous changes affecting every aspect of our lives today. That's right, we can't do it as dramatically as Mahatma Gandhi did in his time. His creation of communication and love was by taking off his clothes. And to live half naked for the rest of his life because that was the way the common Indian lived, he didn't have clothes. So Gandhi ji went about in a langote for the rest of his life and of course by the practice of abolishing untouchability which was a huge effort which still needs to be done in many quarters. So we cannot go to those dramatic extremes but in many ways of proving our solidarity with our neighbor, a Muslim neighbor or a Christian neighbor, anybody who's in trouble for not being a Hindutva advocate and who needs help, we should give what help we can. Either in the way of speaking for them or in terms of actual assistance, legal as happens with many people and we have many fine legal minds who are in the fray right now. One of my legal friends was telling me, Vrinda Grover, that 100 lawyers have decided to unite to defend such cases. In other words, to struggle to make India inclusive again. To keep it inclusive. We are inclusive. Whatever has been said about Hindutva or Hindu Rashtra, we are not yet. Hindu Rashtra, we are a secular democratic republic. We still are and that is the way that we plan to remain. I think that's exactly the message we should end with. Thank you so much, Naintara, for joining us and onward to holding on to our inclusive India. Thank you so much for joining us.