 Good morning everyone and welcome to the class on 1st Timothy before we begin class can one of you please lead us in prayer please anyone? Shall I pray? Yes thank you Divya. Thank you Father thank you Lord for your presence thank you for your grace your kindness in our lives Father we come to you with expectancy Father that you will teach us Father from your word that you will give us the grace to obey Father Lord although it was written so many years ago Father we know these scriptures are still relevant Father Lord we need your word Father to guide us to be a lamp unto a feet a light unto our paths Father Lord we pray Lord you empower us with the Holy Spirit that we can Father be a example Father be a salt and a light to this world Father especially praying Father for Pastor Selena equip her and power her strengthen her Father Lord that she be able to teach Lord what your Holy Spirit is inspiring her to speak Father and the very word she speaks Father we pray Father be a blessing be a nourishment Father to each one as well as to her Father we bless her in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ we bless every student here Father Lord we pray wherever we are Lord how you meet us at our points of needs Father Lord and speak to us very personally very intimately Father give us a receptive heart we thank you and praise you in Jesus precious name we pray Amen. Amen thank you Divya okay so last Monday we were studying First Timothy chapter two we looked at chapter Timothy chapter first Timothy chapter two versus one to ten where Paul is you know writing to the church he's saying how men ought to pray and then he says he goes on to say how women have to pray and then we looked we stopped at verse nine and ten where Paul writes and says that women in like manner also that women adorn themselves in modest apparel with propriety and moderation not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing but which is proper for women professing godliness with good works so we looked at this verse we studied this and also said that you know many of them have used this verse to say that women should not wear gold or pearls or costly clothing when they come to church but we looked at the context why Paul is writing this the context he's writing this is that you know he he's basically mentioning you know you know when he says that you should not you know have braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing Paul mentions these adornments that went against the principles of propriety and moderation in that culture so basically he's saying that you know dress appropriately is that you know when you come to church you are not overdressed or underdressed but you know and it does not call for inappropriate attention to yourself and also it's not a provocative okay and the con the other context is because you know women were very dominant in the society in Ephesus because of the the the goddess that was worshiped their diner so they had a woman who had an upper hand saying things a sway over men would do things we would look at that in a little more detail in some time so that is why Paul is mentioning that which means that it is only in the context of that church Paul is not mentioning this in general to other churches he does not write to the church at Corinth or he does not write to the church at Philippi but is specific for the church at Ephesus so we need to understand it in their cultural setting and why he's writing it specifically to the churches at Ephesus and we also looked at the rest of scripture that nowhere in scripture says that you know women should was prohibited from wearing gold or pearls or braiding their hair or costly clothing okay we'll move on to verses 11 to 15 so can one of you please read verses 11 to 15 please anyone can read verses 11 to 15 can I read faster yes Asha go ahead learn quietly with all the submissiveness I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority around them rather she used to remain quiet for Adam was formed first than ever and then Eve and Adam was not deceived but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor yet she'll be saved to a child very if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control amen thank you Asha so you know again people have used this passage saying that you know Paul says that women should not teach in church they should you know remain silent they should not speak up they should be submissive but you know we need to look at this again in the context of you know why Paul is writing this you know so when we interpret scripture we need to interpret scripture in the light of Paul's own ministry practice in the context of in which Paul is writing this episode to that specific region geographical region the church is there in that place this is specifically writing here to the churches at Ephesus and also we need to interpret this scripture in the light of the rest of scripture because we need to whenever we interpret scripture we always need to interpret it in the context of the entirety of the whole scripture to see what other passages are saying which throws light on this passage or the worst that we are studying or looking at or wanting to find get a meaning for so let's look at Paul's own practice now here he says let women remain silent with all submission that do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man but to be silent so you know if you look at Paul's ministry his own ministry practice we see that you know we read in his other episodes that he writes he mentions names of various women who are part of this ministry team he thanks them he mentions about them which means that he is you know he's he's he's telling the churches that he's writing to he's writing this letter to that you know it's not just a one man show but there are other people and they're not just men but they're also women and he's recognizing various people in his team people in various ministry positions those who are involved with him in the ministry at all levels taking on responsibility so in roman chapter 16 was his three and four he mentions about Aquila and Priscilla you know this husband and wife team were part of his ministry and he recognizes them and we know that this couple you know do a wonderful ministry both of them Aquila and Priscilla they're also involved in the teaching in the church they have a church meeting in their home so here is a woman who's teaching who's involved in in building up a church in ministry activities imparting to others as well roman chapter 16 versus one and two we also see Paul recognizing a woman leader or a deacon of the church and her name is Phoebe in the same chapter in the book of Romans chapter 16 verse 7 Paul also recognizes a woman called Junia who is a woman leader and Paul says she's a fellow prisoner and also someone who's respected by the other apostles and possibly you know she may have been an apostle herself so here we see that you know Paul is not intending to mean that women in general all over should not be involved in the teaching or in the ministry of the church but he's speaking it specifically to the church to the women at the church at Ephesus because if you look at his other epistles and letters he does mention women who are part of his team who are leaders who are responsible people also when Paul talks about you know the membership gifts in roman chapter 12 you know the membership gifts of prophesying serving teaching encouraging you know giving generously leading showing mercy which is all the membership gifts listed in roman chapter 12 you know we see that this is distributed across all believers there's no gender specific mention over there there's no gender specificity that is mentioned in this son but it is distributed across all believers even when the talking about the gifts of the spirit which Paul writes the church at Corinth in 1st Corinth in chapter 12 we also see that there as well it's given without in any gender specificity there is no specific gender that is mentioned that is these you know gifts of the spirit is only for men it's not for women but it's just mentioned in general it's given for all believers a gift that the holy spirit imparts to all believers who desire to have that who desire to flow in the gifts of the spirit if we look at 1st Corinthians chapter 14 verse 26 you know Paul there encourages all of them all women and men in the church to prophesy and teach if you look turn to 1st Corinthians chapter 14 verse 26 he says what then shall we say brothers and sisters when you come together each of you has a hymn or a word of instruction revelation a tongue or an interpretation but he says you know it's it's good that you have all of these things you know have a word of wisdom knowledge you know you have a gift of you you have a prophecy that you want to release you want to interpret the tongues that are spoken well that is fine but he says you know you need to do it in a way that is in an orderly way that will build up each other so he's not saying you know hey only brothers can do that and not sisters but he says what then shall we say brothers and sisters that means even you know women were eager to prophesy to share what they have received when they come to the church so he's not stopping them in the church of Corinth but you know he's saying this specifically which means he's saying this specifically to the church at Ephesus even if you look at the ministry gifts which is mentioned in which Paul writes to the church at Ephesus in Ephesians chapter 4 verse 11 you know the the ministry gifts that is the gifts of being an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher is also given both to male and female and there's no gender specific mentioned there's no specific gender that is mentioned there but this ministry gifts is also given to both male and female so if we look at Paul's letters his writings to other churches he's we don't see him anywhere saying that you know they should not preach or teach but you know of course he mentions in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 he gives specific instructions on when women prophets and those giving a message in tongues you know they must remain silent when they must speak up so that because there was utter chaos everyone you know we knew the church at Corinth were so eager for the gifts to spread they were flowing mightily in the gifts to spread they just every time they met they had a word of wisdom knowledge prophecy you know something to share and everyone just wants to share it there was no order so Paul was writing all of you can share in verse 26 of 1 Corinthians chapter 14 but in 1 Corinthians chapter 14 the same chapter in verses 28 30 and 34 he gives specific instructions on how women prophets and those giving a message must remain silent when they should speak when they should share which does not mean that he's saying that women should not speak or teach but so if you look at other episodes there's no hint or there's no where Paul mentions this so this is not a general teaching that he is bringing about in the in the churches as an apostle this is very specific only to the church at Ephesus so let's look at why Paul is writing this to the church at Ephesus why he's he's saying this you know so just before we look at that we need to know that you know sometimes Paul addresses certain issues in specific churches for example you know he talks about head covering of the women have to cover their head to the church at Corinth when he's writing to them so in first the first letter of to the church at Corinth 1 Corinthians chapter 11 he mentions this but in that same chapter 1 Corinthians 11 verse 16 he very specifically tells them that this sort of custom is not among other churches that means this is what he's addressing is specific only to this church and this is not something that this should be followed in other churches as well but at the same time you know he goes on to in the same letter right in chapter 14 you know he varies encouraging everyone which is male and female to exercise the gifts of the spirit which is prophesying teaching speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues but then of course he goes on to specifically mention when they need to be silent when they have to speak up that is in chapter 14 of the same letter to to the church at Corinth in verses 28 30 and 34 so you know similarly when we look at what Paul is writing here we need to keep in mind what is the context why is he saying this why is he writing this to the church at Ephesus why is he telling Timothy that women should keep silent in the church it's because you know the context the cultural context is that the the city of Ephesus the people worship this god is diner and you know everything in that's in the city centered around this goddess so she was the center of everything you know their expression of their culture their emotions the way of doing things their laws everything you know was centered around this cult diner the goddess that they worshiped so from this book I suffer not as a woman we get a few details you know about what was the cultural practice of you know the people at Ephesus even as they worship this this you know goddess diner so you know because it was a female goddess so they had female priests and you know these female priests you know they promoted blasphemous ideas about sex and spirituality and they also performed rituals in which they you know they basically pronounce curses on men and by which they declared female female superiority so the the women wanted to be superior because of this goddess and so they want to show their superiority over men and hence they pronounce curses and you know they kind of brought in this culture where women are superior and they had you know authority over men so you know most likely when paul was writing this the church at Ephesus he's saying that you know I don't want these women who've come now from these pagan cultures you know they've accepted Christ they're part of the church now he says I don't I won't allow women to teach these cultic heresies you know in the church through which they can still you know bring about female superiority over the men and they try to take over authority over men by performing these you know these rituals these and pronouncing curses but he's saying the order in the church is that you know there are men leadership the men will teach and in the light of the cultural setting but in the light of cultural setting and the order that is in the church he says the order in the church we follow is that men are leaders men will teach and women you know have to be submissive they have to yield to men they have to yield to their authority and listen to them and in that context you know paul is saying reminding them that you know they have to remain silent in the church and they cannot you know assume authority over men by performing these pagan rituals and also bringing these cultic heresies or these false teachings into the church and then paul goes on to remind them you know man's headship in the government order of the home the family and also in the church now if you remember you studied the house of god in the first year first semester and we saw that you know god has organized or designed you know a governmental structure in the family in the church in the workplace and it's important that we you know submit to the or even in the civil government and it's important that we submit to the authority that god has instituted the governmental order the structure that is instituted so in the home you know the man is the head and the women has to respect the man and submit out of their love for christ so the issue here with the women was hey you know we are superior you know we come from this in the culture in Ephesus is women are superior we are superior over men we have a say we have authority over them so the issue for them was when they come to church is you know submitting to a male authority listening to them to the leaders who are male and also to their teaching and so in the light of that cultural teaching on the superiority of women paul is basically reminding them of man's headship in god's government and he's he mentioning here in this verses that you know adam was formed first and then eve was formed and then he says that adam was not deceived but woman being deceived fell into a transcription which which does not mean that you know that that that male or men the male gender or men were not deceived or they're not easily deceived it's only women who are deceived he's not saying that what he's basically saying is that you know that you know it was the serpent we read in Genesis chapter three where the serpent directly spoke to eve and lied to her twisted the truth and she was easily deceived okay and you know she took the first bite and then you know the serpent did not have to deceive adam because when eve passed on the food to adam you know he ate it without questioning and hence both sin both fell so here it's not that you know man will not be deceived man cannot be deceived that is only women who are deceived so women are the the fallen race and the male gender not the fallen race no this is not what paul is directly saying and it does not imply that women are more easily deceived than men but what he's simply stating here is the truth of the events that happen in the sequence that happened you know eve was easily deceived you know by satan and she just took the first bite she gave it to adam you know he didn't resist he didn't stand by what god told him to do he easily gave in and hence you know eve satan did not have to tempt him so and he just ate the fruit so both the sobae god both sinned and both fell into transgression which means both sinned against god both fell into sin and then he paul goes on to write and say that nevertheless you know she will be saved or preserved in childbearing if they continue in faith love and holiness with self-control so basically the word saved here you know is that women will be kept safe or preserved during childbirth we look at this in the light of what is written to us in genesis chapter 3 was 16 when god you know punished adam and eve and the serpent he said to the woman that you know you know your great will be a pain during childbirth but you know paul is saying that even though you know this punishment is there on women but yet they will be saved they will be preserved during childbirth and the word saved here in the greek is the word sozo which is an all inclusive word for the word salvation so the greek word for salvation in the new testament is sozo and it's found more than 110 times and this word sozo is a very comprehensive word which includes you know not just it includes spiritual salvation which is forgiveness of sins healing of sicknesses deliverance from every work of evil work of the enemy rescue and preservation from all harm and danger and total wellness total wholeness and well-being of that person so the word salvation the greek word sozo is a very comprehensive word it's a fully pregnant word so to say you know which means forgiveness of sins healing from sicknesses deliverance from every work of the enemy rescue from preservation from all harm and danger and total well-being total wholeness of that person so sozo basically means to be saved healed delivered rescued preserved it means all of these things at the same time and it's a verb it's an action word something that is done to us something that happens because of the work of christ because a full sufficient perfect work that christ has done on the cross we receive this sozo sozo also means that we will be saved out of the devil's power and we restore into total wholeness you know under the power of god spirit under his power his authority we receive all of these things so that is what paul is a apostle paul is mentioning here that even though women you know you would have this is that punishment that occurs upon you that you would have great pain in childbirth but he says you will be preserved you will be saved he's talking about the word sozo which means you'll be rescued you will be saved now why is you know paul mentioning about childbirth in this context when he's talking about prayer and he's writing to the church why is he talking about about women and childbirth at this time again you know this was 15 we need to understand it both in the biblical context as well as in the local context the biblical context as i already mentioned genesis chapter 3 verse 16 the fall of man where you know god pronounced the scars the punishment on women that they will have great pain during childbirth so that is the biblical context what is the local context or the cultural context the cultural context is also important for us to understand again coming back to the cultural context that of the goddess dina in latin she's the her name is dina but in greek the name is artemius and she's the god of the opposites the goddess of the opposite sorry and you know she was considered as someone by the people who was somebody who would protect or support you know women during childbirth so she was a protector of woman during labor pain during childbirth but it's also said that you know artemius you know that's why i said goddess of the opposites dina and artemius you know when you get angry you know it was said that the arrows of artemius brought sudden death while a woman was giving birth so so this goddess was a divinity of healing but also someone who was you know who brought sudden death while giving birth and also if if she would get angry you know she would spread disease like leprosy rabies so you know in the context of the local setting the the cultural setting the cultural influence that of the worship of this of dina that that people had on themselves they were afraid you know during childbirth but you know what paul is writing here and saying that because they believe in jesus because they have received salvation because they're part of the family of god they're part of the church you know they belong to christ uh that you know uh these women who believe will be preserved in childbirth so this this whole cultural influence this whole understanding of this goddess dina uh that who will help them and also will be angry with them with cause uh death during childbirth will put disease you know that can be removed for their mindsets because once they believe in jesus you know all women who believe in christ will be preserved in childbirth or during childbirth and then you know just like paul writes for women sorry for men he says women you also must continue in faith love holiness and self-control so focus on um these things like he says in the in the previous verses in in verses eight to ten he says you know don't your focus should not be on just you know dressing up clothes a paddle that you wear uh you know the the the things that you adorn yourself with but you know your focus should be basically on godliness and good works and here he says don't focus on you know being superior to men uh you know uh taking on leadership authority women uh sorry don't focus on um you know uh live in fear about uh you know uh what this goddess uh can do to you but he's saying you know focus on these important things like this faith love holiness uh with self-control these are some of the things that women uh should focus on and not focus on other things like being uh superior to men being authoritative wanting to teach wanting to to see the limelight but just be submissive and you know focus on faith love holiness with self-control okay so that is the end of chapter two anyone has any questions yes say sorry pastor mine is more of an observation thank you very much first time i'm actually understanding these last three verses um my observation is that you know when paul wrote this letter he i don't think he even had an idea that one day it will all be compiled as a bible a part of the books of the bible and then we you know we as christians will be studying it because many christian circles have actually taken this out of context and have implemented the fact that women are not supposed to um be in ministry they're not supposed to teach there's some circle of christians but now you know train lights on the biblical perspective and then more importantly the cultural perspective i think it's it's uh it to be a great honor to anyone who is going to teach the word of god to go an extra mile to understand the cultural context of whatever texts that we're going to be preaching on i think it's good it's a very good idea because i didn't know all these things you were talking about although i always knew that paul was always very specific specific when he talked about his letter but when it came to this place this pastor passage i still kind of struggled a bit uh but thank you so much for opening up our understanding this is very enlightening thank you very much thank you say uh but having said this you know we need to still hold on to the fact that you know uh you know for example i can be a pastor in church a woman can be a pastor in church but when i come back home i follow the governmental structure uh that is ordained by god at home i don't boss around my husband or boss over my husband at home but uh you know i submit to his um uh is his authority the same way i can be a pastor at church and i can we can have you know a senior pastor who's a main uh figure uh it does not mean that because god has called me to a pastoral role and i flow mightily in the gift so i teach or preach does not mean that i don't submit to his authority but i do submit uh to his authority to what he says out of reverence for christ so uh the governmental structure and order still remains irrespective of uh you know even though we're not part of the cultural context of what is uh what people at effaces faced uh but we still have this governmental structure and order which we adhere to which we follow and also when it comes to dressing be as women dress in a in a proper way when we come to church uh not too overdressed not too underdressed you know um and our dressing should be in a way that honors god uh and is not provocative and is not causing unnecessary um uh attention um but just in a way that is honoring and pleasing god so this also we need to keep in mind so there's people there's there's some women who can go to an extreme and say okay this is just uh the cultural context so i can dress anyway uh you know uh i can speak i can teach i can have authority over man uh because uh in god's eyes you know male uh there's no male no female all are one uh so i don't have to listen to my husband i don't have to submit to him uh you know well that is wrong uh unless he goes away from god standard in the same things that are not right then we you know we make a stand but you know but even then uh we act out of love we submit out of reverence for christ uh uh you know and do things to honor god in a god honoring away yes so we don't go to the two extremes right yeah thank you thank you ma thank you ma thank you see anyone else has any questions any thoughts anything that you'd like to share okay uh if not we would move on to first Timothy chapter three so can um can one of you uh quickly read clearly and loudly uh first Timothy chapter three others can bibles follow through and uh you know uh after that we will just share if you have anything that you know god spoke to you anything that uh you know just slept out of scripture anything administered to your heart you could share that after somebody reads for us so can somebody please read first Timothy chapter three please shall i read this Timothy chapter three this is the faithful saying if a man desires the position of a bishop he desires a good work a bishop then must be blameless the husband of one of one's wife temperate sober minded of good behavior hospitable able to teach not given to wine not violent not greedy for money but gentle not quarrelsome not covetous one who rules his own house well having his children in submission with all reverence for if a man does not know how to rule his own house how will he take care of the church of god not a novice less being puffed up with pride he falls into the same condemnation as a devil more ever he must have a good testimony among those who are outside less he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil you want me to continue pastor yes go ahead sorry sorry likewise deacons must be reverent not double-tongued not given to much wine not greedy for money holding the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience but let these also first be tested then let them serve as deacons being found blameless likewise their wives must be reverent not slanderous temperate faithful in all things let deacons be the husbands of one's wife ruling their children and their own house well for those who are served well as deacons obtain for themselves a good standing and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus the great mystery these things are right to you though I hope to come to you shortly but if I'm delayed I write you so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God which is the church of the living God the pillar and the ground of the truth and without controversy great is the mystery of godliness God was manifested in the flesh justified in the spirit seen by angels preached among the Gentiles believed on in in the world received up in glory thank you Christopher thank you for reading for us first Timothy chapter three yes I'll leave this time open for those of you like to share you know anything that caught your attention anything that you know that you just were reminded of what you learned before or what God spoke to you it's just come back afresh in your mind some you know some words or some phrase that just leapt out at you from scripture you just like to share this open this time for those who like to share okay Kennedy says our lifestyle should be a testimony of what faith we confess and each as leaders okay thank you Kennedy yes Christopher sorry Charles you had something to say about verse two verse two of chapter three first Timothy a bishop must then must be blameless that's a band of one wife temperate sub-minded of good behavior hospitable able to teach I when the when Christopher was reading I was looking at that and I was like trying to see how I am like gauging myself on that on that scale of being blameless being husband of one wife temperate sub-minded having good behavior being hospitable but also able to teach so um it it has caught my mind afresh that I need to again consider myself and try to look at it though I might not be a bishop in a church but at this level as an elder as someone who is heading a group of people like I need all these qualities I need all these qualities so that I will be able not to even verse three continuous but for sure all these qualities are very very important to me and I was like I think I need to again get a piece of paper and write and start checking each quality like I do I have this what is my relationship with alcohol and wine what about my violence am I greedy for my wine sign things that are not proper like you add a zero on a cake or no maybe you are writing you are writing a refund you are asking for a refund and you add a zero things like that so God was speaking to me and they think I'm going to put it in practice by doing a check out so that they were able to understand my my standing currently thank you thank you Charles I think it's very humbling to hear that from you thank you so much you know sometimes we when we read scripture we always think of others you know other leaders but you know it's it's it's extremely difficult to just look at it and put yourself there and say hey do I have these things even though I might not be a bishop or a leader but I am in full-time ministry and just to act on it thank you so much this is so wonderful to hear that for me which is so humbling thank you yes anyone else ma'am I have a question while we're reading the whole passage we see that it is about the position of a bishop and it is basically talking about you know a man so this position or this office particularly belongs because they're talking of one wife managing the household managing children having a wife so there's particularly talking about only a man being given this position this is my question so you're saying should only men be bishops and deacons that is what is your question yes ma'am okay again we need to look at it in the light of the cultural setting and also in the light of the entire scripture it does not say anywhere that women should not be spiritual leaders because you know they are given the membership gifts it gives the spirit they they are also called into various offices of a fossil prophet we have prophetesses in the bible we have leaders like Deborah who was a judge we had you know also phillips daughters who were you know who were prophesying so you know in that context we see in rest of scripture that there were spiritual leaders who were women but in this context specifically yes there were men who were leaders in the church so paul is again you know writing about writing to men who were leaders and writing to timothy guy telling him what kind of leaders he needs to choose as bishops who were the spiritual overseers and as deacons who were you know administrators just part of the local organization of the church yes but in today's context do we see women who are bishops yes thus god worked through them yes in the bible do we see women were spiritual leaders yes the holy spirit imparts to them the holy spirit speaks to them uses them mightily so you know it does not mean that in scripture says that anywhere it says in scripture that women should not be leaders or spiritual leaders they're best spiritual leaders the holy spirit worked on them especially the old and new testament we see you know how the holy spirit anointed women Miriam Deborah Esther Ruth Anna who was the prophetess's prophetess philips daughters you know and even in the prophecy that Joel mentions and what was quoted by Peter in his sermon in Acts chapter 2 he says the promise of the outpouring of the spirit is for your sons and daughters and both will prophesy so yes you know women can also be leaders but in this specific context cultural setting there were only men who were leaders the church so he was talking specifically to them telling Timothy how to choose these leaders what are the qualifications that are required Kennedy says I must keep hold the deep truths and clear conscience more so on social boundaries not taking advantage of my flock yes yes that's that's what Paul mentions faith and a clear conscience faith and a good conscience which is very very important because if you don't have a good conscience you know which is which which enables you to have a good conduct you know that will shipwreck your faith like he talks about hymenius and alexander whose whose faith was shipwrecked and that's why he talks so much about maintaining a good conscience yes thank you Kennedy Christopher yes pastor I was just sort of reflecting on you know when I was when I was reading and I realized that you know I had you know I was as I was going through it you know I didn't actually read the headings or the first you know the first two paragraphs and then the great mysteries the one I actually read I actually you know read out aloud so I as I was just reflecting on that I realized that you know Paul is now you know talking about you know this this you know Jesus as or God as the you know as the as a role model you know for us you know and he talks about this this this mystery and again as I was reflecting there was two things one is this role model the other thing was I was just talking I would just keep through the mystery part and I was you know even as I mean as believers or even non-believers you know it's really about you know it's a mystery because it's it's also in the supernatural you know we beast he's going through this you know this the sexual you know we got has manifested in the flesh and then you know he is you know again he talks about justified the spirit seen by angels and then he is also talking about received up in glory and you know it's it's that is really you know that is only you know possible by God and that's why I think Paul is talking about this being a mystery because it is something that is out of the ordinary and something that is not you know of the world really it is something that you know is supernatural yeah so I was just I just wanted to mention that thank you Christopher thank you for sharing that anyone else any other thoughts any that one else like to share verse 16 is gospel in one verse yes yes true yes okay it's time for our break now we'll stop here and then we'll come back after break and we will do a detailed study of first Timothy chapter three okay thank you everyone see you after the break