 Good morning ladies and gentlemen as I can see this is a very popular panel and They couldn't be a better not just tribute to the power of the people on this panel, but also To the understanding that I would say corporate India has of how the political balance of power is shifted Virtuously in India because our constitution was designed as a federal constitution where states were supposed to have lots of powers It didn't happen for about 40 years since independence, but last 20 years or so. That's been the inexorable movement our states have become more and more powerful Just keep to just give you an example There were times when under article 356 of the Constitution Central government could dismiss almost any state government even Jawaharlal Nehru used that but to just give you an example Mrs Gandhi Mrs. Indra Gandhi I have to specify whose name is often invoked any time we say we need tough governance in India I have some figures. She dismissed Elected government state governments nine times between 1965 and 1969 when she was running a weak minority government It became 21 times in the period 1975 and 1979 in less than five years She dismissed 21 state governments and then in the period between 75 and 79 Sorry between 1980 and 1987 That law was used 18 times state governments were dismissed So said governments were at the mercy of the center So either state governments were run by the same party that ruled at the center or they were not allowed to survive Now that changed all of you are aware of the Bommai judgment and many other cases plus Because of the shift in political power in the country no party at brute majority is at the center So in the last ten years that power to dismiss an elected government or an elected assembly has been exercised only eight times And of the eight also four times in situations where it had become an Assembly had become untenable in small states like Jharkhand And twice in the state of Karnataka, which had a completely inconclusive verdict The power of the center now to dismiss a state government is a thing of the past Chief ministers have become very powerful. They look at their jobs very differently They in fact have begun to see themselves more and more as CEOs of their states I Know yesterday's deliberations many people complained about lack of decision-making slow decision-making At the central level at the policy level But really what has kept India's growth still moving at 7% plus even in a difficult year like this When I heard somebody from Morgan Stanley say this morning that he believes that Morgan Stanley believes that Europe has officially Stepped into recession and America could go that way to have another seven seven and a half percent growth here It's a good thing, but that's mainly happened Because many of our states have got the momentum going if you look at the data in India There are nine states whose human development index is Lower than the national average and the chief minister of one of those is sitting with me Mr. Chauhan, but all nine are improving their HTI index all nine are coming closer to the national To the national average. That's the big change in India one good example of how chief ministers look at their role very differently We have chief minister of Gujarat was not with us But who's just finished a tour of China or they were times when a chief minister If he wanted to even meet a visiting foreign diplomat in his state would have to would need Depermission of Ministry of External Affairs, which is the most terrible of our bureaucracies in India No, Nadeep is somewhere here head of public diplomacy Nadeep Suri in Mea, but me I would really cuss it it would either take weeks giving you permission to meet a foreign diplomat Or sometimes not give it at all and say things like what's going on in this country? Chief ministers can't just meet foreign ambassadors or unless one of ours is present now Narendra Modi who's chief minister of Gujarat has gone to China has had a very good tour It seems so in spite of the fact and the Chinese have invited him in spite of the fact that the Americans want even give a visa Another example the governor of Sinkhyang has been in India, which is the Chinese equivalent of a chief minister again a powerful man He's been fated in India. He's been hosted by state governments Including the state government of Gujarat and Sinkhyang is a province of China Under which falls a large chunk of Indian territory, which we believe China has illegally occupied from us excite in The Chinese treat as a part of China and yet the system has now become so open and Federalism has become so strong that this chief minister to chief minister or chief minister to governor Interaction is now seen as a normal thing having said that one of our panelists today Is the equivalent of chief minister of British Columbia In in Canada and she's just finished a tour of China That's right And now she's doing a tour of India and what's on her plate attracting investments attracting tourists setting up state-to-state Linkages other panelists everybody knows mr. Prithviraj Chauhan. He was a star yesterday and he's star here He's in a way the host of this conference here my old friend Sometimes we have the same taste in our waistcoats He has a toughest job the toughest chief minister's job because not only is he the chief minister of the second largest state in India in terms of the number of seats it contributes to national parliament after UP most people don't realize it after UP Maharashtra is the second largest. He also runs a tough coalition government. He's a tough coalition partner But more than that He's also held responsible for whatever happens or doesn't happen in the city of Bombay Which he doesn't directly control because the city of Bombay as you heard yesterday has a peculiar arrangement It doesn't have a Mayor worth the name and the chief minister doesn't have full power. So he has to answer all those questions, but he also Is the guardian and patron of corporate India because most of you work out of Bombay? Mr. Uman Chandy if you think The gentleman his party colleague who is left as a tough job. He has the toughest one because he has to Bring about a turnaround in a state called Kerala I'll give you an example. I was in Kerala once for a wedding Vents on an afternoon Saddam news came that Saddam Hussein had been hanged Immediately all of Kerala called a bond. I think I was stopped somewhere in the middle of the road because my taxi driver said he will not try I don't think any part of the world had a month because Saddam Hussein had been hanged so with great difficulty I reached back coaching and And I borrowed a car and I drove to this little island on the other end of coaching which has India Which has one of the world's oldest? Jewish villages and one of the world's oldest Standing synagogues and I found the entire street was shut So I talked to some people and I said why should your Jews? Why should you be mourning Saddam's death? So Everybody said to me in Kerala once somebody hears the word bond you all pull down shutters and you go home and What happens in Kerala is that five years? These guys are in power five guys the five years the other guys come in power and all the time. They are both competing In bond culture. He's a leader who's been trying to contest it He's also been trying to get Investments from outside and convincing people that Kerala has now changed and changed to the extent that Malayalees can work Can be stellar workers not just outside of Kerala all over the world, but in Kerala as well Mr. Chauhan from the BJP It's the beauty of Indian democracy that we have a BJP leader and two Congress leaders and a Canadian leader And I just reminded her that a very large number of our voters happen to be Indians as well So she should know the mind of the Indians Shivrajji has a very large state to manage a state that's landlocked state which has agriculture as the main source of its Economic wealth, but where agriculture in the past did not progress very well because Madhya Pradesh is not a reverse state He you know his state doesn't get the benefit of the of the Indo-ganjatic system of rivers his irrigation is challenging Many other factors are challenging, but he has very enterprising farmers You know the soybean revolution in India has been brought about by his farmers and he's doing many things now lately I complained to him in his last term that he did not focus on in the industry his growth rates were lower He's now been lately focusing on industry and power. So we have all of them And we have a full haul Let me start something Let me start first with the three Indians here. When was the last time? three of you or Any of you had a dialogue like this chief ministers from diverse states together? Abhut I am I don't know I wouldn't talk about this place But we do get to see each other in Delhi because there may be some media programs also and I Did participate in the campaign with Shree Chauhan Can the sir car key juggly we cut it Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Projects Dilly. We're going to be a file clear me. Oh, please. I don't understand The ways of the central government as far as the clearing of files is concerned sometimes He may also have a similar complaint against the central government But we do certainly meet sometimes and and there are difficulties But the the way we try to resolve the crisis and the conflict that also we discuss with each other sometimes You yesterday I think demanded that three of your major projects in the city should be declared central projects Do you sometimes the same problem knock knock knock, but nobody's there. No, no in Delhi. No, fortunately for CM of Maharashtra It's very easy to get appointments in Delhi and Get central leadership to listen to our problems. First of all, Maharashtra is a very large state and The fact that it is ruled by the same party which is in power in Delhi. It's just incidental But whatever problems we bring to the center We get prompt attention. Not everything is redressed always, but there is definitely immediate attention and many problems Which had to be resolved by the federal government? They get attended to and we get a speedy resolution. So I know complaints and Meetings like the National Developmental Council where all chief ministers are members. We meet we interact We listen to each other views and then we meet on the Occasions when media calls us for giving some awards like recently there was an occasion when all chief India we call together for from the world function so And we also on the but something is it an advantage to be from the same party as The ruling party at the center or sometimes is it a disadvantage? Sometimes you think if I was from the opposition I could scream more I could protest more now I can't so do you do do you get the feeling you get taken for granted? No, I don't think there's any difference in it because The leadership in Delhi realizes everybody is treated equally badly No, I don't think I think they all realize that if a chief minister of a state is going and Knocking at the doors of the Union government. It is to solve the redress the special problem of his or her state I mean we are only going for Redressing problems of our constituents our citizens of the state and notwithstanding What political party we belong to some chief ministers and you know which ones I mean without naming them to make a Politics out of it. I mean they just make a political point out of the fact that Sentry is not listening because he or she belongs to a particular political party but by and large we get patient hearing and the problems are redressed and We had to do it quite often though, but that's normal politics Prithvi I mean if you if you were an opposition chief minister, I know it's an if You would use the same tactics. Well in a position will shout louder and you give press conferences outside saying that Problems have not been redressed but by and large. I think all states are treated equally. Mr. Clark. Does some of this happen in Canada as well? Yes, absolutely. Although Canada is a much more decentralized federation The rights and roles of the provinces are set out in the Constitution very clearly and the political parties are without exception Separate provincially and federally so there's no congruency between the party membership So I think that makes a difference in terms of just it not just the way the law is written But the way the law the constitutional responsibilities are effectively carried out because it limits the federal government's responsibility to to exert influence on the provinces in addition to that I lead All the provinces all the provincial premiers this year at an organization. We call the council of the Federation We we come together a couple of times a year to cooperate jointly on initiatives, but also to make sure that we're asserting our rights in the context of our federation With respect to the federal government to work together strategically to stand up for provincial Provincial interests and we have significant ability to do that because we control some of the most important economic levers in the country how our environmental clearance is given for projects in your country Do provincial governments get permissions from this federal government or can provincial governments give those permissions directly for economic projects? Yes environmental experiences for industrial projects for most for almost all approvals It's entirely provincial. There's there are some areas of overlap In for some very large projects on environmental approvals But the federal government is now working to devolve that or to work through a Devolve that one so it's one project one process that would principally be managed by by provincial governments What we want to do what we're doing in British Columbia is we're opening a major investments office Where we will advocate for investors to get them from initial investment to operation as quickly as possible so pretty See at least they're Center can't federal government can't give her a directive to register criminal cases against somebody and then clear a project That's a thought I think it's unprecedented in India's history that that a central government instructs a state government to file criminal cases In fact, I have searched for history. I haven't found any instances and this is in writing well, I think if you're Referring to a particular case, I think there are referring to La Vasa. Yeah, there are examples It's a central law which have been violated and so About the law being violated Some penal action is required now who operates the process is incident But the let me push the envelope the directive from the center doesn't say This is how the law has been violated and these are the violations. So file cases for these violations No, I think There is an arbitrariness to the action I mean, let me again further push the envelope if you were a non-congress chief minister You would not have accepted it. No, the point is whether the environmental clearances should be Given by federal government or like in Canada should more and more authority be devolved to states is a debate We must carry on I think there is a new awareness about need to protect environment Canada is a large country. We have per capita availability of land is much lesser than Canada The pressure of people is huge and therefore I think what can go wrong with the population pressure If you're not very very careful could be disastrous So I think we have to be extra careful and ever since the new environmental laws were enacted in the 80s by Mrs Indira Gandhi, we didn't take them very seriously and their Violations galore. I mean somebody has to call speed is paid and Jairam Ramesh did that but I would like to say this Sheikharji that when it comes to development and environment we certainly have to establish a balance between the two and When we talk of forest and environmental clearances You know the the states really have to sweat hard to get the environment clear And so we have to build roads or to set up industry and the land that we have to give for setting up industries And if coal blocks are allotted four years ago And and you still have to the matter still Hanks between go and no go and sometimes, you know, the coal is not available The project is almost ready and I'm not saying this from a politic particular political Ideological viewpoint I would not like to use this forum also for that but I would like to say that the projects do certainly get delayed and many Irrigation projects could not be cleared because many of the environmental clearances did not come and I believe and every Everyone believes that you certainly do need environment But at the same time you also do need development and as long as you do not strike a perfect balance between the two You would not be able to achieve greater development and the welfare of the people and therefore We need to adopt a holistic view in this and as far secondly as she talked about Canada The states do have great rights there and you certainly need to give rights to the states But the those certain rights have been given here, but those are quite Few and we are also concerned about our environment like Madhya Pradesh is Is Having large forests, but we need to protect the forests the world also benefits from these forests but we suffer as a consequence because Developmental work does not take place in those areas and we have to Deposit greater fees with the central government and the people also Federal government compensating states Who preserve large forests for example our hill states is something like that done in Canada No, no or the equivalent of carbon credits for a state that preserves a lot of forest No, no, it's not federally regulated in in British Columbia I'll give you an example on the environment. We have very high environmental standards across the country But in British Columbia, we are the only jurisdiction in North America to have implemented a carbon tax No one has followed us. We think that they may yet. We are we are cooperating with the trans border With the Washington, Oregon and California on working through Cap and trade some cap and trade ideas the rest of the country hasn't participated in that. We also have a 93% Limit or a requirement for clean energy across the province were a carbon neutral government These are all things that we did as a provincial government And different provincial governments across the country are approaching it in their own way Alberta's priced carbon from the oil sands and some of the other some of the other Resources that they extract, but it's a different it's not a it's a different structure for a carbon tax So every province has their own take on it and every province has taken it Very very seriously The federal government I think is recognizing that they don't really need to be in the business of environmental approvals to the extent that they are Because our environmental approval process has legislated timelines that we are required to meet for applicants And we have we consider the economic social and environmental impacts of projects So the standards are very high But the process is very clear and the responsibility for it in the country is also very clearly at the provincial level Before I come to mr. Chandee with the larger environmental question. Let me ask for a vote on this panel. We have four State CEOs or chief executives Is there a consensus that time has now come to trust the states more with protecting the environment? Would you also want devolve Devolvement of powers from the center to the states. I know you want it I'm a good kid. Can't put a lot of the card in it. I'm a parent key clearances kill you sir If you don't have me ready to tell you that Canada may or not. What about it to a few? Country like India federal country like India Is the understanding between the center and states are is a bust That only strengthen the confidence of the people We are getting full support from the center government The last UDF government time then BJP was in power But even then we are getting support from the BJP government that time right environmental clearance In Kerala also. We are facing some issues. We are getting all the support from the center, but Are the rapidly hydroelectric project? We are not get clearance so the both the LDF government and Now the UDF government want that project because of we need power But at the same time center government is very adamant because of there is some ground no doubt They are agreeing that green bonuses. They are allowing to state. They are promising to the state so environmental clearance is we have to discuss in a Merit basis That is my opinion even now when we are we are for this project, but the center government is not given the chance So do you get frustrated sometimes and see the you've got you've got only five years because in Kerala governments change See that the boat in in Kerala See both the LDF and UDF wants the clearance from the center government for a rapidly hydroelectric project Even now we are pussy, but in all other matters center is very helpful to the state But in this matter they are very adamant because the environmental circumstances are is like that They are now promising the green bonus for us, right? So Let's talk of the larger environment you inherited state after five years of Very tough left rule left rule by the last Stalinist in the world Who's still a formidable leader of the opposition at the age of 88 89 88 they're about Is it Stalin would be proud of him How do you how do you turn things around from there because Kerala now has a culture Explained to this audience a little bit about something that I heard that in Kerala Even if you give a contract for labor to somebody the local mafia has to be paid Equivalent in wages any way whether they work or not and you've been trying to question that tech that practice Just explain that a little bit to rest of them. Many of them have run away from Kerala In fact, if you drive if we drive on that highway or whatever goes for a highway between between Cochin and Calicut or you've seen many factories, but all you see is red flags on those factories and many of them Have been shut for a very long time This is an old History now the situation in Kerala is changed a lot Including the left parties But explain to them what you've been I know you've been trying to fight this practice of See the no kukuli so without doing anything Workage demanding wages that is we are calling in Malayalam. No kukuli without doing anything Demanding wages. See now we have decided to stop this system All the political parties including the left parties all the trade unions Including the left trade unions agree to this and the government is trying to implement that In a very strong way. We are getting support from the public We are getting support from all political parties and trade unions The militancy of the trade unions and the workers in Kerala That is an old history. Now the situation is changing Very fastly changing that situation when we compare compare with the The old India average is the working days lost due to the workers strike Kerala is very minimized very minimized Now the working class is even the trade unions Understanding the situation and they are very cooperative and the state government is very thankful to the trade union leadership and workers for that At the same time state government's responsibility is something high. We have to protect the proactive Workcase interest So let me ask each one of you starting with you, Mr. Chandee. What is the most important or challenging part of your job? Is it to keep the high command happy? Is it to keep the opposition at bay? Is it to keep dissidents in your own party in control or is it to just get your basic work done? for according to me for These these problems are not facing for me the command is giving full support and From my party getting and the united front. I am getting the full support Even though the very thin majority But we are doing our activities in a democratic way and I am Getting support in all cycles all cortex. His state government has the thinnest majority for any state government in India And a totally polarized state which has only has only two coalitions It's a tough one Prithvi Well, I think you have an additional factor Coalitions partner as well. Yeah, well, we have a coalition in central government and we have coalition in my state which are run fairly effectively for three terms now and we've been voted back to power three times Well, I think this talk about keeping center happy high command happy is a lot of these are Creations in the media hype. I mean the central government will like the state government which is ruled by the same party to be stable progressive and Make sure that the state returns in the federal elections the same party again That's the primary objective Expected from a chief minister. We are responsible to our own people and so I think the challenges But what frustrates you most of all at the end. I know you sleep very late What frustrates you most of all at the end of the day day after day, you know something that makes you do this well two things That the right to information law which has been with us since 2005 has made everybody extremely cautious the Issues that you raise in your newspaper every day the so-called corruption scandals and scams that are emanating are not what happened last year or year before these are Situations and issues which happened long time back in an environment where decision makers thought That their advice their decisions will never be seen by the public suddenly We have a situation as if the rug has been pulled under the feet and suddenly whatever you decided 10-15 years back is coming to light and it now is appearing that apparently some laws have been broken Everybody's extremely cautious Decision-making has slowed down. There's no doubt about that But I think it's a transition period. We are moving towards a much more transparent Governance and that will give us huge dividends later on. It's a transition. I'll break this order But you will figure out why so I'll first go to mr. Chauhan. Ah, but I a Subsea jada What makes mr. Shivrasin Chauhan most angry I always try to be happy and remain in that mindset and always try to keep my people happy as well and The importance of the development of Madhya Pradesh is the greatest challenge before me And as you said that Madhya Pradesh Was one such state which used to be called a bimaru state, which is a diseased state But now I'm glad to announce that we Our development growth rate is reaching to digit it is more than 10% now and We have Done many unique experiments and and people say that people used to say that the people are only confined to the role of Electing a government, but we have gone beyond that and made the people a participant in the process of development and and and we made them a Very effective part of the panchayat the mazdoor panchayat the kishan panchayat the manila panchayat And and and these these are all things that you've done very nicely But beyond other than this what what angers you more and that why am I not able to do this? What is it that angers you the most see one is that? One problem that the political activists would always face that sometimes you know the false allegations that are heard at you You are doing a good job still people try to pull your leg. So then For a moment But but are more of false allegations heard at you more by your own political your own party leaders or by the congress party You may find out, but I am the happiest when it comes to my party workers So you the the greatest admirer of yours you've sent her to the state of UP Ms. Umabhati she is like a sister for me and I respect her a lot, but we also have mr. Digvijay Singh in our state He's from the congress party and he's supposed to be a national leader of the congress party He is from my state with the UP So he has also been sent to UP the state of Uttar Pradesh and And he has been given such a huge task of playing World Cup with the team of Anna Hajare So Digvijay Singh Has this fine art of repeating a lie a hundred times that at least people would start Taking it as a truth But if he holds an education against me and if somebody asks me then I say that people don't trust him his party Don't doesn't trust him and he also himself doesn't trust as to what he's saying So that must not be taken That India although we say that Our politics is for old people now some of our state leaders are very young and in fact Shiv Raji is the youngest chief minister of a large state in India Second youngest being he's even younger than Mayavati Who always calls me her older brother and I never remind her that you know She's a couple of years older than me, but but he's by far. He's by far the youngest It is already in his second second term miss Clark. You've heard this. How much of it sounds familiar to you a lot a lot Democracy is a process of seeking consensus and I for me whether or not I mean you're in a in a system that encourages or guarantees a minority which I think you'll find in a lot of you know in States in India or in a system in in Canada where it's first past the post the old British system Are you almost where you don't get minorities? You still build a coalition within your party whether it's external or internal and so You need to seek consensus That's the nature of politics and I think a lot of business people find that very frustrating because it means government is less Nimble as a result, but that's the ugly reality of having a democracy Which I think is better than any other system out there nonetheless I think you know for me the thing that is most frustrating and I've only got back into politics in the last year is that you spend a Preponderance of your time Communicating what you're doing to the media and that eats in eats into the amount of time that you have to actually govern do things make decisions and I think that's the most frustrating part of it and maybe to put it simply to say that there's too much Entertainment in politics now and not enough content That that sounds familiar Everybody and how much a role does media play in that? I think I think now politics has begun to threaten News so politics has begun to threaten entertainment TV in our country What's it like in yours? Well? I mean I we live next to the United States the country that pioneered the Two-second three-second sound clip right so we're you know We that that cuts down on content the fact that TV drives Debate and the fact that we're in a 24-7 news cycle media Companies that are bottom-line driven as opposed to content driven. I think all of that has contributed to to a less literate discussion about the real issues that we face and I think you know you look at the the economic turmoil the world's encountering now The discussion about that is I I don't think deep enough and I and I think as a result there's a low a low level of of Public concern particularly in my own country about the impact that that could have on us because we've been relatively sheltered so far So I think I think we need to move to a world where there's more content in media in general And I think that would allow politicians to focus more on on doing rather than communicating all the time So the same question as I asked of all the others. What gets you really angry? Is it the opposition? Is it? Is it the media? I know you've been at the sort of rough end of media's attention over the last couple of weeks for purely personal reasons and unfair ones well, I used to be in the media I Had my own radio talk show and you must have a thick skin Yeah Well, I am I think the thing that is You know, I I think it's easy for politicians to cast blame and we make mistakes We get blamed for it and we try and say it wasn't our fault I think that happens a lot, but I think equally though I do get frustrated at the At the lack of depth in reporting and I think reporters media members of the media would very much like to be able to become experts in their areas But they are less and less able to do so because of the economics of the media business and the fact that it's driven by television And I think that's you know, the the the fifth estate is a fundamental part of Supporting any democracy and we have to be very concerned or as a society About you know the about continuing to support the ability of the press to fulfill its role You know one gap on this panel is that we don't have a Woman chief minister from India. Yeah, some of our toughest chief strongest and most powerful chief ministers are women in fact Three of them four of them for sure. Yeah one from his party in Delhi But one in West Bengal one in UP and one in Tamil Nadu So I would have liked to ask this question in their presence as well But do you tell me is it much tougher? Do you? Being a woman do you particularly get targeted by the media and by the opposition in certain way You got targeted for your for your dressing. I know not long long ago Yes Well, I think yeah, I think that's true. I think women are still held to a different standard I don't think it's any different in politics or corporate boardrooms. We're still working our way up in Canada We have a terrible record of women being successful in politics. It's just terrible we're one of the worst in the in the sort of the in the developed world and Boy, it's we in Canada We've just elected a woman on the west coast in British Columbia a woman on the east coast in Newfoundland And one in the north in Nunavut and I say to all my premier fellow male premiers I say we're not taken over, but we've got you surrounded Come back to States talking to states I Have many examples where I see states picking up good examples from other states and following them And sometimes this cuts across party lines, and that's a very good sign Indian politics For example, Gujarat sent its officers to Andhra Pradesh to study the self-help groups there and microfinance schemes And has implemented some of that in Gujarat Chhattis got again sent people to Andhra to study the Indramma housing scheme Similarly Chhattis got sent people to your state to Kerala to study the Kudumbashree scheme I see that between Madhya Pradesh and Gujarat there has been a lot of give-and-take You have a Samadhan scheme where people can get their grievances answered online and similarly Gujarat has swagat So equally to say sick Is enough of that happening or would you like to see more of that happening? Definitely, this is very beneficial to the states When I took charge immediately I send my our health minister to Andhra Pradesh to study the health insurance scheme Ayurgyasree implemented in Andhra Pradesh so we want to implement a Universal health insurance scheme in Kerala likewise we are examining the progress of Delhi Bombay industrial corridor we want to build an industrial corridor between Kochi and Coimbatore so the states will definitely look into the best schemes result-oriented schemes from the other states that is a very good model for the states communications between states happened in today's day because of internet communications Officers are just a phone call away. They meet in Delhi When central government calls them for reviewing certain central government schemes, so this communication happens on a regular basis in special times when there is an Extra information is required people do go to different states to have a face-to-face meeting But best practices are adopted freely openly Credit is given where it is due for example Maharashtra has a unique distinction of many of our Initiatives got adopted at the central level. For example, including NRAG Including NRAG Including the employment guarantee scheme which was initiated in Maharashtra long time back We were first to enact the right to information act even before central government adopted Pakistan was ahead of us Many of the Panchayat Raj initiatives came from here the water conservation ideas came from here So we are sharing freely what worked well, and we're also sharing what failed. Can I ask you a loaded question? In the last election campaign Narendra Modi went from place to place in your state Saying see Maharashtra's got left behind and I used to be behind Maharashtra. See how far I've gone I had so Maharashtra should learn from me. So is there anything you've learned from Gujarat? Well, it didn't work in case of Narendra Modi election campaign But but is there anything no any good practices to learn from Gujarat? We are completely open to what has worked in even BJP ruled states If something is good something because you're losing some industrial projects of Gujarat Pardon me. You are losing some industrial projects of Gujarat I think manufacturing some major projects did go to Gujarat But I it's not for me to claim that every single Industrial investment happening in this country should come to Maharashtra alone. It'll go to other states also There's a huge competition between states, which is good now Gujarat has stolen much over other states in ports Which we are little behind in ports and wherever port connected is required. Yes, Gujarat has an advantage But I think this is not right if you look at the numbers. We are by far The most industrially advanced state even if you compare with Gujarat We just just far ahead and it's good luck if the industrial investment is going to neighboring states We have no problem. We will continue to get the best. I am persisting Are there any good practices that you've asked your officers to pick up from Gujarat that you know They seem to be doing this right One I'll off the top. I'll think of is the water conservation program that Gujarat has done Lot of farm ponds that they make lakhs and lakhs hundreds of thousand for farm ponds They made and the growth rate of Gujarat has been Of course on a based on a very low base, so we are trying to study if that is a good practice We ascend offices there. They're studying it. We are open to Take any good practice whether from Madhya Patish or from Gujarat or from Kerala What works there may not necessarily work in a different milieu here But we are open and we are also offering and sending our officers to tell people what has worked here Mr. Clark does some of this happen in Canada? Do you do provinces learn from each other? Yes? Yes provinces learn from each other. We compete with each other Competition is good and I think you know just as competition is good in the private sector It's very good in the public sector as well And I'll give you an example in British Columbia 10 years ago when my government took over We looked at this province next door to us Alberta, which was doing phenomenally well They had the lowest marginal tax rates in the country. They had low debt low debt levels in government They had they were they cleaned up the red tape. We looked at what they did. We met with them Talked to them about the economic miracle and we did exactly the same thing So now our taxes are lower than theirs at the marginal you know marginal tax rates our corporate taxes are low in North America We've done the same thing and we've seen the same Economic him economists say if you lower taxes government won't get any more money Well, that's not true in Canada every province that's lowered taxes has seen a growth in revenue Well, I hope I hope that people are listening here because many bad ideas are floating again in our country on taxation So you know you've been to Chandigarh Amrit sir. We are the parents of many of your voters live And now Bombay so when do we see chief ministers or your equivalent from other states in Canada coming into India because they are competing with you I am leading all the premiers to to India in 2012. We've invited the Prime Minister to come with us We're not sure he's going to be able to attend But I know, you know Brad wall the premier of Saskatchewan was here a few months ago India is at the very top of the radar screen for Canada right now in particular British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan which produced 90% of the energy in the country and Into the bread basket of the country as well in terms of food. So we have some Opportunities to build India and I always say Indians came to British Columbia a hundred years ago and built British Columbia It's our turn to help Through collaboration build India. So what else is your new on your radar screen besides getting a big Bollywood Awards Festival to come to Vancouver? Well, that would be great We also well, we've been very focused on specific investments specific large investments clean technology We've been focused on life sciences technology as well Obviously clean energy LNG we're building three LNG plants in the north of the province by 2020 We've got some and education is a big focus for us as well University of British Columbia is almost cracked the top 20 universities in the world and so for in terms of India's Requirements with this huge population dividend of people under 25 We think Canada has a contribution to make that will benefit both our countries So we've been me I've been meeting with business leaders in Delhi and then today in Mumbai and then tomorrow in Bangalore About about trying to attract investment to British Columbia Shivraj You know the felt hesitation in talking to a congress ruled state also know I have never hesitated I did send a team of officers to Andhra Pradesh also like they've done commendable work in the field of Border conservation I sent a team to Gujarat and we are also and I'm glad to state that you know I I have always felt emboldened to sending teams to other states and I another good thing that I do is I send the best practices letters to other chief ministers also and Ramdev Ji and Anna Hajari have made a mention of that I have already enacted that law in the year 2010 a year ago and I have already implemented that and I have also written a letter to all the chief ministers of other states of India that you also implement this and About the Mandreka wages issue That it is lower in the rural areas I felt that if that we should send the funds to each household so that the laborers get the wages in their house itself. So I started that and like we are progressing a lot in the field of agriculture and When it comes to giving subsidy directly in the accounts of the farmers and of also for the For emulating the lot of the laborers and also for like my government also prepared the scheme of largely Lakshmi which is for the female girl child and you know that We start from the audience as we continue this conversation is a Anybody want Adi? Mr. Adi Goldrich my question is directed to each of the panelists In terms of economic progress Would you consider putting economic decision-making ahead of? Political considerations between parties in your country. Why don't you start? Me yes, absolutely. Well, I I think you have much cleaner politics. I believe than ours less messy I think the answer has to be yes because I The thing the thing that citizens look to government to do is to provide economic opportunity People want a safe secure environmentally sound community, but people need economic opportunity and so I think ultimately government needs to be focused on delivering results in the economy and That will deliver Election results at the end of the day and you know from my perspective Because I've worked in both the public and private sectors I don't think you should get in politics if you don't have a Goal of trying to deliver economic results Because even if you lose and you've done your best to try and deliver jobs and economic Opportunity you'll feel good about it And there's no reason to be in politics because it's a really tough job if you don't feel good about what you're doing Shibraad ji What would be a priority in your viewpoint the System or the politics I think for strengthening the economy and for economic reforms and for economic prosperity politics never stands in the way of Development in Madhya Pradesh and whatever that I think is the best for economic prosperity. I do that and politics I have never allowed politics to stand in the way I think It is the duty of the chief minister of the state to deliver economic benefit to the society Politics is important. There are political formations the party machinery to fight elections and to communicate the message that the party's manifesto is being Implemented by the chief minister and the chief minister to tell the people at large that The part because they voted a particular party to power that he is delivering economic benefit. I think that is absolutely essential and I'd like to also tell that there is a Political benefit any state which has given good governance clean governance They have been returned to power many examples We call it anti-encompass even the government loses But I don't think there is anything like anti-encompass. It just if you give bad governance People perceive to be a Not a clean government and people will vote it out But if people see that Reasonably good governance has been given by the chief minister the party has been returned take for example the up a government take for example The Maharashtra coalition which has come to power third time in a row So I think we have to concentrate on delivering economic benefits to society Well, I would only like to underline one fact that between 1989 and 1998 Indian politics was governed by the iron law of anti-incumbency in that period 77.5% of incumbents got defeated that has now Reversed to just 46% of the incumbents being defeated so 54% Incumbents are now being re-elected which means politicians are performing more and more because they know that if they perform They can get re-elected and that is what's given you this growth Over this period because if this had not happened with any policies any reform you would not have had any growth So that's a big positive change in Indian politics which we can't solve the time now Before I take the next question. Mr. Chandy has to have with you Mr. Chandy to tell me also do you also feel hamstrung sometimes because Congress has a high-command culture? Congress has a high-command culture and if I can be a little cheeky BJP has a franchise culture BJP high-command is so weak that they franchise the states to strong leaders and They run their own thing. So that makes makes his life less difficult You know his his as he said his favorite sister has been banished to the Pradesh to fight everybody's favorite sister there But do you sometimes feel hamstrung that your party has a high-command culture everything has to go for clearance I Have already mentioned that I am I am getting the full support from the I command never I feel a difficult situation I am worried only about I am not worried about the opposition or Media criticism or anything. I am worried only about the development of my state In the needs of the people so we are working together for that objective. So hand on the heart You've never had a situation where you really wanted to do something But the high command stopped you or your party's general secretary in charge of your state did not like it and gave you trouble I can put my both hands in my heart I never such a situation in Kerala On which note we'll take the next question if you would introduce yourself My name is a special class. I'm president with mehendra group My question is very similar to what problem we face also in organizations He at what level decentralization should stop if we take the subject of Say the subject which came up earlier environmental clearances Canada has an example that for most of it happens at the province level and not at the federal level large states may have a Bonafide case if we take that analogy to next level that should it happen at district level a Particular district in Kerala may want a project a particular district of Orissa MP or Maharashtra People may not want that project So then who should decide center state or a district level because that will be taking autonomy or Power to people to next conclusion conceptual level perhaps, but this is something which I will ask all the panel members Who wants to take it first? with me, I think It's a good idea decentralization generally a good idea except on Environmental matters we have a very bad track record state governments have by large violated environmental concerns because If there is a mining project the state government gets royalties out of mining And they don't mind destroying forests. They wouldn't mind destroying wildlife if it gives economic benefit somebody has to make sure that countries Flora and fauna natural resources are not Completely destroyed. So I think till the environmental awareness Flows down to the last citizen of the country, which has not yet happened. I think we need a Guiding hand of the federal government. I think his question is a larger one What he's saying is that while we recommend devolution of power from the center to the states Shouldn't there also be devolution of power from the state government to the districts? I think we're already devolving power to third tier of the governance in many things in Developmental matters in how we govern ourselves in many subjects, but you also mentioned what environment and that's why specifically touched environment There are certain themes for example Collecting of taxes most taxes are collected at federal government level Some taxes are collected at state government level But almost nothing at the district or a county level or a lower level than that. But the fact is that our district level Democracy functions very poorly very few cities and districts have elected bodies Up here, how's up city in Madhya Pradesh me how is it in your state you have the district Councils shake her G. I would like to say that ours is a very large state and Devolving of devolution of power is a very good idea and sometimes the central government makes schemes and Every state has different issues different concerns and the situation in Kerala would be different from that of Madhya Pradesh So I would say that when you prepare a scheme you leave it to the state and and you make state specific schemes and Whatever that we need we would do that because otherwise you you implement schemes universally across the nation similarly districts would have different requirements like in the state of Maharashtra with her would have different situation as compared to that of Marath Vada So similarly in certain issues, you know We should give pass to those different those districts in specific issues and for the development of villages and districts They should be allowed to decide and not the state So therefore the devolution of power from top to bottom is a need and I think we are doing it in certain cases and Like if you have land which is a plus you may you you you may Grow trees on that again, but like in China it happens And this will lead to hierarchy in Kerala Decentralized admin safety system. We have already accepted But we want more Economic facilities see that a government of India now implemented so many flagships programs very good programs that will improve the village status and facilities no doubt, but At least some percentage freedom will give it to the states Likewise state will give more freedom to that when local Giants district Panjaites also. I strongly believe that will improve the situation and How is it like in Canada? It varies from country to country obviously. I mean an environment a different issue in India Basically, we inherited the same system Yes, well, yeah, it is although, you know in in Canada what we have seen because we have very carefully observed The rights of the provinces versus the rights of the federal government and the jurisdiction is very carefully laid out What what we've seen is that we have liberated provincial economies to be able to do more for the country and just as the state needs to liberate individuals to be Entrepreneurial and innovate and the state needs to get out of the way of the private sector So does the federal government the central government need to get out of the way of the provinces and the province need to get out Of the way of the cities the challenge as always duplication So if you you want to have you don't want to have a situation where every city has a different rule for plumbing or Taxes or whatever you want to have some consistency I mean, it's so it's a fine balance to find and I think it varies country to country But I really believe in principle that the less central control you have the more you liberate and you liberate innovation For individuals at the end of the day and the country in your neighborhood sets a very difficult example where laws can vary from District to district in one place you can have you cannot have a gun and another you can have a cannon If you don't if you don't in fact if you don't have one you are in trouble, isn't it? It's well, you know, I'll give you an example though like in Canada that's thorny for us immigration immigration is a key driver of economic development and Provinces need to have more control over it But it's also very much in the national interest to be able to control immigration across the country So we struggle with that about how we will divide the powers and who will have the control because we sure would like more immigrants in British Columbia and we sure would like to be able to choose which kinds of immigrants from which countries and The we can have I would like to be able to grant automatic citizenship to anybody who gets a PhD out of British Columbia University I'm interested you say that because I was at a conference at Princeton just the day before yesterday And somebody complained that in America we drive out all our top rankers While the Canadians get the same guys to go in and a couple of million dollars in their banks as well Yes, well, it's I mean We have better I think we have a better immigration policy than the United States in general in Canada We've benefited from that from that difference and I think equally as America increasingly begins to look inward and become more protectionist Canada is taking the opposite approach. We're playing offense instead of defense. I can I can see that 240,000 Indian voters are not giving you that much trouble Before I take there's a question in the back, but before that a pretty inevitable question since we're talking what's districts and states Bombay isn't quite a district. So you have a peculiar problem because you have You have a city state within a state And irrespective of what what you achieve in a cola or you have a mall or wherever Your performance would be just by how people see Bombay I mean, how concerned are you about a decline of Bombay because Bombay is in decline well the population if you look at the decadal growth a population growth rate of Mumbai city the island city of Mumbai it has declined in last ten years which shows that The Bombay city has reached a saturation point. It's not that there are no jobs, but there are no Commensurate living accommodation social infrastructure and we are concentrating and how to get the whole thing, right? One of our major challenges is to get transportation infrastructure because we can't expand like Delhi can or Calcutta can or other cities can we are not by our environment laws not allowed to reclaim land in the city and Grow within the city like many other Cities of the world have done so within the constraints that we have Can we build a ring road around Mumbai? Can you solve our housing problem innovatively by going up with public housing? Can you get permanent supply of clean drinking water to city of Bombay? These are the challenges which I call all your projects seem to be stuck on transportation in particular They're moving but there there are see trying to build a metro like infrastructure or Monorail infrastructure highly dense population that is not easy at best of times and we have People we are real people when you try to resettle people from what about your continuing projects for example This the second half of the ceiling your other ceiling which has to come up between the island city and There's no movement I'm happy to inform you that while the the eastern ceiling what you call the trans hubba link got stuck We attempted to go with the public-private partnership twice and we did we came out We were not successful we again restarting it within next week the RFQ documents will be floated And I'm sure that this time we'll get it right it'll open a large hinterland area for Mumbai, right? And what about the other ceiling from Bandra Verli what that is? That is bid is a contractor been awarded the contractor has to deliver the project there are issues about the yards which are required for keeping the Can't you arm twist the contractor to start? Well, I mean, there's a lot to see finishes arm twist There's a limit in a democracy freeway democracy how much you can arm twist people and we don't want to do that I think we're working very close, but you want that project to go on. Yes We want infrastructure of transportation is very crucial to grow the but specifically talking Let me complete we also talking about the Sababan Mumbai district, which is growing right and we're talking of a much larger Greater Mumbai area the bomb bomb Mumbai metropolitan region, which we're developing as a whole and I think that will change the Two questioners waiting for a long time the lady in the back there Thank you if you would introduce yourself Okay, I'm Nina Gill. I'm from SAS and I really wanted to ask a question about replication of projects and states learning from each other. I I'm really heartened by all the comments made by the Chief Ministers here that they are in fact taking the initiative Learning from each other Chief Minister Chandi. You mentioned about the Aragosheri Project in Andhra Pradesh, which is something I have been involved in and what's the question my question is that actually Often you are relying on the initiative of the Chief Ministers Something needs to be more systematic So I would like to ask should there be some kind of innovation unit where we're where you're addressing for say below poverty line People initiatives that states could learn from each other. Should there be something available within the country? Like a think tank that all Chief Ministers share Something like that or a unit innovation unit So you avoid the cost of reinvention you avoid the cost of you know Replication, okay, I'll take the last questions Navin We just have time for one more question Navin Raheja. You've been waiting for a long time my question is as President of the National Real Estate Development Council Naradco To all the Chief Ministers recently we are framing land acquisition and our and our bill Has anybody given brains to it that to benefit 1% of the land owners? We are going to pass on four times Payment of compensation to the land owners which will get passed on to 99% of the population Why don't you people stand up and explain this? That while you are going to benefit that 1% land owners The entire industry cost of production will go up and our real estate will go up. I think I think they've got Our politicians understand land better than they understand anything else. So they've understood your question now We have two questions. One is a question of the lady That don't the Chief Ministers need maybe they can be an innovation cell Where best practices can be combined from all states and new ideas can be generated which all of you could share and this could be a I presume a non-partisan body Do you all think it's a good idea does somebody think you may not be a good idea? See I welcome that idea we in In our state we have decided to prepare a plan for 2030 so 20 years Program for that we have already started inviting suggestions all over the country and We have already got more than 22,000 Proposals so in the end sorry India is a big country So so many good things are happening in other states different parts of the countries We must have get the benefit of the good schemes good programs. So this is a good idea. We have to Implement miss Clark you have something like that in Canada No, we don't well. There are a number of private sector think tanks Non-profit think tanks not funded by government that do their best to share ideas, but it doesn't really exist in in Canada It's a great idea very difficult to implement in practice in practice Shivraj. I Think that is that this is a very good suggestion, but why only the chief ministers? There are people other than the chief ministers also there who can think good and there are NGOs There are other people there are good groups and we should take their cooperation also and should form a cooperation like What Rajaj is said we should also consider that because we should remain close to the ground reality because sometimes In view of the wood bank politics we sometimes devise policies because of which We we take drastic drastically different steps though the farmers the land owners should get a good compensation That's all right, but we should also give them Generate a permanent source of income for them by giving them meaningful Employment and video permission I would also like to say another thing that there is a impediment in the in the path of growth and Development and that is that every year every second year there are elections Every political party has to prepare for fighting elections in some state or the other at different levels And I have said this many a times that there is a need for Amending the constitution that the states and the parliament should go to elections at a time in five years And if any political party loses majority in a state or National parliament you'll buy that will your party buy that and send elect another one that's a radical proposition But there's another thing is that there is that there should be an arrangement for state funding of elections because because the Costly elections lay the foundation of corrupt practices in the country because no political candidate can ever fight Elections The most expensive elections in the country right now No, I have a lot of my media colleagues are great benefit sure about this a new space as Advertisements, yeah, I think we got three or four ideas the one in our state We have Initiatives taken by district collectors district officers We just try to replicate throughout the state and it worked very well We have a think tank at the secretary's level which we assist the chief minister with new ideas and we also open to Ideas that have worked outside about the land acquisition. Yes, it's a real worry But at the cost of land acquisition will go through the roof But at the same time as we must admit person whose land we take permanently away must get Beings of livelihood and we do not just give one time payment and throw him away that Resettlement of families which are uprooted through development process must be complete before the project gets started These two basic ideas are there I have requested the prime minister to call a council of chief ministers to debate the land acquisition bill I think I think the debate is still going on So the chief ministers meet because they control the land you know in India land is controlled by the state So I think this bill will yet go through a great deal of distillation So I I think you know I can see how much interest there is in talking to the chief ministers We can go on and on but if you go on and on I will have a dart fired at me And I have only one heart mr. Chandi not to It'll come straight for it and I'll be dead So I think we have to I have to thank thank the audience you've been wonderful I wish we could take more questions, but these many of these people will be around so please catch hold of them And maybe I'll catch hold of miss Clark. I think we should take our screen awards to Vancouver this guy