 Hello everyone, I am back with Joy Marie otherwise known as Savage Joy. She is an activist She hosts her own podcast on real progressives and she is here to kind of reflect What we all just went through and what we're going through currently joy. Welcome back to the program Thank you so much for having me these discussions are basically Incredibly therapeutic to me and you know based on what the audience says they always love these because you know I think that it's okay if we admit that we don't always know the right words to say during tough times We don't always have the answers sometimes. We don't have direction, but if we just talk I think that that kind of goes a long way and we just need a good, you know conversation right now Because we all have been going through a lot So I want to just tease a little something Joy has a pretty big announcement about a project that she's working on We're not gonna reveal that until the very end So you have to watch the entire video no fast-forwarding, okay? So watch that and Just as a heads up, I am not preggers. She maybe is pregnant. No Well happy birthday in advance So I wanted to get your opinion because out of all the people I know who supports Bernie Sanders Nobody was more dedicated and invested than you you literally like sacrifice five weeks of your life to go to Iowa and Knock on doors for Bernie Sanders and this is tough like you just mentioned before we went on that you got your ballot I know my ballot is sitting in my mailbox. I haven't even checked yet because I I don't want to So let's just check in. How are you doing? Still um, you know It's it's I would say it's 2016 all over again, but it's not it's worse because it's like the second time So there's kind of this PTSD of sorts with this, you know, the death of democracy again Yeah, so I I went to Iowa. I left my family and I knew one person in the entire state I had never been there and I went for five weeks and You know knocked on hundreds of doors and ice and snow and like negative four degrees and You know just made thousands of phone calls and I and you know, I was there caucus night and everything helping and I was so envious of everyone who was getting to vote, you know caucus but you know to vote and I was like, I can't wait to get back to Pennsylvania and start, you know being active there for our primary And I came back. They made me victory captain and you know, so I was gonna be training people things like that on how to do phone banking and such unfortunately a Connection I have in the campaign Let me know the Sunday before Bernie drop that he was going to be dropping and it was devastating because You know, I still had scheduled trainings the next three days and I am Extremely dedicated and they were like why can't you do it, you know, and I was like, I'm Just not feeling like I can convince people to vote for him right now and stuff like that and and you know I still haven't watched the video where Bernie dropped. I can like I don't want to see it All I know is he dropped. That's all I want to know. That's all I care about. Yeah, I don't I don't need to see him You know, because I know it was hard for him, I know but You know, it's as someone who has given, you know, so much to this campaign Emotionally and physically and monetarily and and things like that. I absolutely feel a sense of betrayal Did I expect him to take it to convention again? You're damn right. I did You know COVID fucked everything I mean, let's keep it real it fucked everything and maybe he'd still be in the race if it wasn't for COVID But he dropped too early. Now all the states are male and ballot. So it's not like that's, you know Putting people at risk necessarily because we can all vote by mail so he just dropped way too prematurely and And it's it's hurtful and today I got my ballot, which I've been waiting for for over a year Finally got it and I had like a full-on ugly cry when I go check that box because I'm like Here's you know, it's all coming to fruition. Here it is. It's a culmination of everything I gave my life for But it's not the same because he's not gonna be president now There's no hope of that. It's done. He's 78. He's not running again It's done Where the hell do we go from here? I don't know Yeah, you know, I'm like a lot of people. I don't know. Yeah, I genuinely don't know I feel like a lot of anger. I feel in some ways energized, but also, you know demoralized and I don't know where to take, you know, the the The energy the anger and place it next like all of this can't just dissipate into thin air Like it has to go somewhere. We have to channel it. But right now I don't think anybody really has a clear-cut solution because movements, you know I don't necessarily think that they hinge entirely on a leader, but it really helps to have a leader to have a face I mean part of the reason why I truly believe Occupy wasn't successful is because it was a leaderless movement There was no hierarchy and there are benefits to that but at the same time, you know, if you don't have someone kind of Guiding and steering the movement in a way It really is difficult to maintain So my number one goal is just to make sure that the whole crew stays together like this energy for Medicare for all and You know all these things that Bernie Sanders brought to the forefront It's not going to just go away So we have to make sure that the team stays together to continue fighting But in terms of how we continue that fight, I genuinely don't know and I agree with you I was really really I was saddened when he dropped out. He did drop out too early and in a way I don't necessarily know if this is just because you know I still feel admittedly emotional because of all of this I kind of resent Bernie in a way like I don't hate Bernie But I feel angry because it feels like we all poured so much into this our hearts and souls time energy resources And I just feel like he didn't fight hard enough and you know I from the beginning have been saying you've got to be tougher You've got to hit Joe Biden and he never did but at the same time You know, I can rationalize his decision to not hit Joe Biden because his his strategy was working He was leading in the polls, right? So it wasn't necessarily something that I thought was sinking his campaign until after Super Tuesday that was a different race and at that point in time Bernie needed to really look in the mirror and ask himself if he truly wants to win And I never thought that he did that he changed nothing and he just ran the same campaign Which we all knew wasn't going to be successful so to me I feel hurt because it seems like he just kind of surrendered like he put up the white flag and Like I get it right like I can't expect someone who's 78 years old To sacrifice their time and energy if he doesn't really feel like it's going nowhere But at the same time, you know, I still like we all kind of We put everything into that campaign our hopes and dreams and this isn't like Here's the thing and like there's a lot of people who love that the bernie bros are all demoralized and whatnot But this isn't like a sports team losing test like to me This was so important that I felt like if bernie wasn't elected humanity doesn't have a chance And what I mean by that is if bernie got elected He was the only person who I believed would actually Fight to get action when it comes to climate change and lead the world and I wasn't even you know, um under this Illusion that he would be successful. I just felt like he would give us a chance, right? He wasn't a savior. He's a human being who was very influential, but not perfect Um, and now that he's gone. I just I don't know what to What to think of this right like who's next what can we do? Um There and the answer is there's there's no one no one's ready to step up Nobody has the credibility or name recognition to step up Nobody is as bold as bernie sanders and it's not like bernie was this god who was infallible He was very flawed as a candidate He made a lot of mistakes that I feel frustrated by But in terms of like anyone who's near his level, there's no one So I'm kind of feel like, you know, we're all just flailing. We don't we don't know what to do We don't know where to go. We don't know how to make What has been created a sustained movement and it's a little bit disheartening and in a way I feel like Maybe after covet 19 is you know what we could put that behind us Maybe things will become a little bit more clear because I kind of feel like myself and others just have tunnel vision We just want to get through this right now Um, but it's tough and I think that the lack of direction it is It's hard. Um, I wanted to get your opinion on some of the revelations that we have that kind of Added to my anger with bernie sanders. I shouldn't say like I don't know if I'm angry at him I just like I'm giving him the cold shoulder, you know, if I was speaking to him currently Um, we learned I are separated right now We're not divorced but we're separated We need couples therapy like a hundred percent. Um, well, we learned about jeff weaver Starting a super pack and how everyone within the campaign they knew about jeff weaver Now I was an outsider I didn't know about jeff weaver and you know some of the signs that we saw back in 2016 Or 2017 with the revolt of the our revolution staffers What do you make of this because to me? I thought bernie knew better than to surround himself with people like jeff weaver Can you just kind of share your thoughts because this really it pissed me off Yeah, I mean The the thing is, you know being so connected to the campaign. I will be totally transparent I did know that weaver faz and um, chuck rocha Were very not well liked to put it that way. Um I I met jeff weaver and I actually interviewed him um a year ago Or 18 it was Um, and he's quite charming. Um, he was very nice and personable and Um encouraging and and it came across very very genuine Um Now the thing about bernie, which I've heard from his own family members is he is loyal to a fault Your friends with him. You're nice to him My friend joe, you know, that is bernie When he puts his hand on liz warren's back. I want to grab his shoulders and shake him but to him She he's still loyal to her even though she's garbage to him And that's how he was with jeff weaver. They've jeff has worked for him for 32 years So that at that point it becomes like a family member You know and and you know, I mean that's the only uh Job jeff has known has been working for bernie And I think bernie had that sense of obligation in a way. Um, but since you know faz took jeff's place A lot of us were like Okay, good Someone new's getting in there And then we started learning how the campaign staff was calling him spaz um as as his nickname and uh, chuck rocha I was told was you know, very shady, but he seems so nice and intelligent and For the movement and you know, the thing is I wanted to say, you know a number of things I you know was told by higher ups on the campaign but It would hurt bernie Yeah, so You know someone from Wapo sees my show and says ooh race campaign You know manager is like inspiring against him and next thing, you know, I fucking screw bernie, you know out of votes So I didn't want to go there, but I was apprehensive and It was um a frustration by a lot of people on the campaign Yeah, so it's it's difficult I am not surprised in the least That they created this pack. Nobody is no one. That's interesting That's so interesting and you know, like you said, he's loyal to a fault and I think that that's admirable But it's not admirable when it reaches a point where it's literally harmful You know, it goes back to the joe blight and is my friend thing You can't say that like this is not a good person. This is someone who Has voted for a war that has killed hundreds of thousands if not more than a million irakis This isn't a good person and that's not to say that bernie is perfect or would be a perfect president But you know to me it's just a blind spot and I kind of viewed it as naive a day on bernie's part because You can see the good in people. I think that that's that's great. You know, I love optimism I at my core. I think I'm a pretty optimistic person But at some point, you know that instinct that mechanism that you know tells you to kind of be skeptical It's got to kick in and I feel like it never kicked in for bernie sanders Um, and we you know, we just saw what was it last week. He did a live stream with elizabeth warren I mean, how can you she just right? She just said that your campaign was built on a foundation of hate I'm paraphrasing but like attacking all of bernie sanders supporters like to me That is unforgivable. Like you know what this movement is about. I don't like I personally bernie's just a vessel I want policies give me policies and I'll shut up and go away Give me medicare for all and the wars. These are like very simple things that we want So to say that that's motivated by a foundation of hate He should have called her out publicly for this Some things are just beyond the pale and what she did to try to sink him. That's not what friends do You know, if you're genuinely a friend like the way that joe biden treated him Uh, joe biden's characters are finding out about the sexual assault allegations At some point you've got to reevaluate who you're friends with and realize if they're kind of bringing you down And I just feel like bernie never did that and I don't want people to think I'm against bernie and I'm just dogging on bernie But I do think that if we want to be successful at anything going forward We have to be introspective and we have to ask these tough questions because Bernie is not a cult leader and I think that the mainstream media surprised how, you know, we are able to criticize him So easily after they call us a cult for two years or four years um, but I mean I want to be successful and I want the policies that I advocate for to be codified into law one day So we have to kind of look ourselves in the mirror and ask Where did we go wrong? um, and this is kind of what I wanted to pick your brain about because I think that there's a lot of things That bernie could have done better But at the same time, I think that there are also things that are kind of outside of our control I don't think there's anything that he could have done to reign in the media bias. He could have maybe called it out more I don't know that that would have helped but just within the realm of things that we can control What do you think if you were advising bernie? You would have told him to do and just in your opinion. This is loaded. You might not have an answer What do you think is the number one thing? That led to his demise. Um, I kind of have a theory but I want to hear what you have to say so we can compare notes Um, two things I think uh, which led to us losing votes are a joe biden's my friend and b Yes, I believe he can win against trump. Yeah Never say that about your opponent. First of all, it's not true He can't win against trump. We all know this biden's gonna lose if they don't you know If they keep him in there, he will lose. We will have trump again. That's a fact So the fact that bernie was like, yes, I can you know, and he kept saying it no bernie Shut up say I believe I'm the only one who can win because then he would say Um, you know, I don't think status quo can win against trump. I don't think big money can win against trump Yeah, I believe joe can beat him. No, dude. He can't So I think you know, when people are watching this and they're undecided Yeah, even bernie said joe can beat trump. No, he can't So I think he played it way too soft. I mean in 2016 we were like go harder on hillary She's garbage, you know, but he went harder on her than he did on joe Yeah, I mean the one, um Uh debate when he was like, I'm gonna ask you a third time Did you say you'd cut social security? I was like, yes Finally, let's go bernie. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then it was one night only he stopped It was like, no, I finally thought you were gonna like go hard like it was I don't know, you know, what was said or what was done I don't know. All I know is I keep thinking back to in 2018 when I, um interview Jeff weaver And he had just come out with this book And he was telling me about how and I do believe him on this. I really do. Um, because we had a lengthy discussion about how Psychologically and mentally it affected for me so much when trump won Because he did partially feel responsible. I mean, he was in a place Nobody else in the world was in and he's in a place. He's in that place again He's being held to make all of his bros fall in line, which we're not going to but he's being held to that expectation um, and We cannot truly fathom what that's like for him And that's not to rationalize or make excuses. That is just literally Um, the case he does feel a very big sense of responsibility to Get trump out of office. Um, because he knows he's being blamed for him being in it in the first place And when countless people say that it kind of fucks with your head and you're like, maybe I did kind of help We all knew he didn't But I I get it. He has that that sense of responsibility that none of us can comprehend Um, as far as you know complaining about the media and stuff That to me is kind of hopeless just because when trump does it people flip out. Oh, there's like a nazi you're saying you know the media is awful and You know and and burry came out with an article that said he thinks the media is one of the reasons he lost And it just was not good. Um So I think really just the main things were well, and also uh, you know, he he um, he took on iowa for the inconsistencies What about massachusetts? What about texas? What about you winning california and not getting delegates for over a month? Why aren't you saying these things like us as volunteers worked for these votes we worked for these delegates We deserve them So the fact that you're not saying You know as a campaign we have every right to say, you know what our exit polls show Not only did we win we won by far And now we're coming in like third, you know what I mean? It just it wasn't making sense um, so Yes, we could have taken Taken on um individual states more as well I feel like after iowa He wouldn't have been unreasonable to request an audit of every single primary after that I mean That's something that was unprecedented. We've never seen anything like that And I don't necessarily know that there's anything there with the exit polls Um, I know that they over sample younger people But at the same time when we saw what happened with iowa like I was already calling for you know, some type of international organization to oversee our elections because you like you can't Here's the thing Regardless of the outcome You can't have people lose faith in the process and one thing that's become abundantly clear is that nobody trusts the process You can't have a democracy if people don't trust the process Because then you know, they don't actually feel like their votes mean anything and when people check out of democracy Dies and I'm not saying that to be hyperbolic I'm saying like comparatively speaking in these types of countries mostly younger democracies when people check out and stop voting They end up dying or they slide into illiberalism or authoritarianism. So I mean The people who claim to care about democracy. They're not taking this seriously You know, um, even just the fact that we have a hundred million people that don't vote That is a huge huge red flag. It doesn't bode well for you know, the long-term Strength of our democracy and nobody's taking it seriously So, um, yeah, I you know one thing to me and I'm I'm not a hundred percent sure that this is like the smoking gun the one thing that led to bernie losing and I think that he could have made some Adjustments afterwards, but I think that after south carolina obama getting everyone to kind of coalesce around joe biden that really did have a substantial effect And I can't remember who conducted the study But they showed like the differences between the left and centrist is that they really respect party figures Nancy Pelosi brock obama like these people they say something and it's like gospel whereas the left obviously isn't like that You know, we're like fuck the authority So when obama got everyone to coalesce like when everyone kind of dropped out Behind the scenes we all knew it was obama and endorsed, you know, joe biden That was huge It changed the entire dynamic of the race and I think that largely That is one of the biggest things that led to bernie's loss I I can't say like it's too soon to say that's definitely what did it But it was one of the factors unquestionably Yeah, if they if those all those people stayed in vote would have kept being split I mean that is absolutely the number one reason mathematically 100 it's um, it's as soon as they dropped out That's when okay. You have two candidates. That's it. You know before you had six Well, they go different ways. Well, now you have two and unfortunately biden voters. Their second choice was bernie I never believed that until I was at a caucus site in iowa and joe biden was non viable In my location and the majority of them came to me In my section, which was insane. Oh like they're so different. Yeah, they're both like old white dudes But like they couldn't be more different Um, yeah, it was crazy. So being given, you know, people have obama nostalgia That's what it comes down to they want obama number three. Oh, we miss him so much Oh my god handsome well spoken And they ignore, you know, all the horrible things he's done Um, and joe is just kind of like an extension of going back to normal which anyone with a brain knows that uh for people of color and You know women and lgbtq like going back to normal is not good Um, so, you know, it's a lot of it is privilege a lot of it. Like I don't care about You know policy joe biden has no policy. Right. What does he stand for? I don't fucking know I have no phone bankers. What are you gonna do call someone and then they're like What do you say about how does he feel about healthcare? He doesn't like Medicare for all like that. What is he support? How do you and also how do you phone bank and answer like What about tarade and what about the iraq or like how That's like nobody I want them to call me so bad. Like so bad. I'm like, please call me um Because I I would probably uh make them cry but It would kind of be worth it. Um, it would I think we're we're pretty fogged uh to be honest, but not that I support Them just doing a switcheroo. I'm putting in like an idiot like quomo who hasn't done a single event or gotten a single You know, um delegate because that is also the epitome of undemocratic But joey himself even said the vpi pick needs to be ready to step up immediately Why it's like he knows they're gonna pull the 25th amendment on him And he's sending out for him things like that. It's I think he knows I really do I think he knows like he cannot You know cognitively Deal with anything Yeah, I mean to me my feelings are kind of all over the place on that because it's like To my core I have to be consistent and if joplinan got more votes, all right, you know, no matter how he got those votes He gets to be the nominee. That's just Fair is fair, right? I mean I was I was very angry when we were leading And there was all this talk of bernie sanders having it stolen away from him at the convention with super delegates Liz warren even said that she would be open to this, right? Um, so I think that if you get the most votes, that's fine that being said I'm not going to shed a tear for joe biden if there is a switcheroo that happens at the convention I don't think that will happen I'm not going to shed a tear for him because he was advocating the same thing I mean, I keep pointing to an article on my show about how joe biden says that if somebody gets a plurality bernie sanders But not a majority he will aggressively compete for the nomination at the convention Which means he was willing to resort to a contested convention. So I mean, you're the one who asked for this You said that, you know contested convention is a okay if it's to stop bernie So now you reap what you sow. You're kind of a horrible candidate, you know, and there's the tar read allegation Sorry, I believe her anyone who doesn't is I think fooling themselves Um, and it's just like you said we're fucked I don't think that you can put it more simply and it's it's so so frustrating and it's got to be like a slap in the face To activists especially yourself how Joe biden one states he didn't set foot in when bernie supporters were relentless phone banking every fucking minute that they had to spare And this asshole won by doing nothing by standing for nothing like i'm reminded of this video I think it was after iowa where some of his volunteers took turns Sharing like 50 things that they liked about joe biden or 30 things And none of them had policies i saw like two policies maybe and it was like oh, he's nice. He's committed It's like none of this means anything Joe biden says there's nothing that we can't accomplish together But then he says we can never have medicare for all like this man He doesn't stand for anything. It's so irritating to me. So it feels like, you know We're just going to keep doing the same thing like I know democrats like to pretend trump is uniquely terrible and sure maybe he is with regard to tone But you know democrats their reign broke during the bush years as well and rightfully so that was a much more destructive presidency But donald trump like in 10 years They're gonna normalize him when we get president tom cofton or someone who's even worse And I think that this fear mongering has not been good for the left It hasn't been good for the center because here's the thing Like joe biden is I think better than donald trump albeit marginally But if we are able to defeat donald trump all of the bad policies that come along with trumpism aren't just going to vanish into thin air Sure, we we don't have war with the ron if joe biden is president most likely But that doesn't mean it's done forever We postpone it four to eight years until a republican gets involved Maybe the best case scenario, you know, joe biden gets to a point someone to replace ruth bader ginsberg I'm not convinced she'd step down if a democrat was uh able to win the presidency So it's like we're we're seeing the line between democrats and republicans become blurred And this terra reed situation makes matters worse because the one kind of like pull That democrats had was that they were just better on social issues women's issues lgbtq plus issues You know racial justice and now they're proving that they literally stand for absolutely nothing So what are we supposed to do like We don't have real choices in this country and I don't like The talk of just getting a third party like we need fundamental for reform We need five to six parties Like we have a lot of ideological diversity in this country even if i'll say voters aren't the most ideological but We need to be able to have like an honest discussion Policy wise about what we need to do to fix our country and we're not going to get that with the same two-party duopoly That's been taking place. So it you know for me. I'm just kind of like reassessing What is going to work and I think that one of the conclusions that I've come to is that electoral politics Is kind of a dead end. I'm not saying that we check out of electoral politics I think local and state politics is really important electorally speaking and we should absolutely support candidates running for congress But in terms of just like only eyeing the presidency, I don't think that that's going to make us successful In the long run. I mean it was nice because we're we're this close We're this close to getting the most powerful office in the land But it didn't work and nobody else is going to be able to fill that void that bernie sanders is leaving So I I think the biggest question is what's next and there's no answer to that I I I totally agree and you know not to be you know a downer to the viewers or anything but You know this one dude, he's the one that planted the seed for everything So no and he is far from a deity and he is far from you know a god or infallible But the fact of the matter is he did plant the seed that brought things like free college medicare for all green new deal to the main stage nobody this You know election year would be talking about any of that shit had burning out run in 2016 He also mobilized over a million volunteers you know the the What he has inspired in a movement to at least create that groundwork if we can't do it I don't fucking know who can I don't fucking know unless someone comes out Then none of us have ever heard of I don't know who else has a 40 year history of activism I don't know who else has you know been fighting for the people that long um I feel like if we can't do it with him on the ballot I just kind of don't have hope in that regard at all It's it's so hard to have hope right and I mean I kind of like I'll go back and forth Like sometimes I'll feel genuinely hopeful and optimistic But then other times I'll feel like that was stupid that optimism was pointless Like if nothing is going to amount to anything um But I mean at the end of the day one thing that we have going for us and I use the word going for us You know loosely because it's not a good thing is that um all of the material Conditions that existed that you know are plaguing the working class They existed before we really knew about Bernie Sanders as a country And they're going to continue to be an issue going forward So so long as these issues are there there is going to be a type of um I don't know like there's going to be an opportunity and it's just a matter of how A movement or a person seizes on that opportunity and the problem is that It's not necessarily like good actors that can use that opportunity we see you know rising fascism Around the world. It's not just in the united states. What's donald trump? You know, he seized on that he seized on the material conditions in the united states So it's just a matter of like who's going to get to it first Um, and it's a question that I don't know like it's We don't know the end of the story not that this story really has an end But we don't necessarily know what's going to happen Is it going to get better or just progressively worse and we become acclimated to the shit situation? And I think that all of this uncertainty Is what's driving a lot of like the depression and the demoralization because it is tough like you want some sense of What the future is going to be and you can have a loose sense, right? None of us know what's in store for us things can change on a dime like that But you know, if you can kind of anticipate, all right, well, there's a general Way that the wind is blowing, you know, we're we have bernie sanders and you know, we're inching towards progressivism You know the younger generation, you know, anyone who's under 45 basically is very progressive So that's what we have in store for us. I think that that's something to hang on to possibly but then I also tell myself conditions can change You know, I don't think it's as easy As some people are saying that we just wait for the boomers to die not that you know, we love boomers There's a lot of great boomers on the burning movement But it's not so easy as waiting for the next generation to die off Because people's opinions change over time and someone who supports burning today 10 years from now could be You know duped by some different ideology, you know, people aren't as consistent and principled As we as I would have liked to thought To have thought they were and this election is definitely showing that with the tar read stuff I mean, I believe democrats when they came out against Brett Kavanaugh swinging, you know, because I believe christine bozzie for and I thought well, you know, it's great That we at least have allies in power who are looking out for women at least, you know, rhetorically At least when it comes to, you know, these issues and now it's mask off for everyone Nobody cares everyone just wants power and I don't know how to process that and I think a lot of people Don't know how to process that and I don't know what to do with that information I don't know how to work within the confines of that very disgusting system And I don't know Yeah, absolutely I think one of the things I'm looking forward to is, you know, I protested at occupy dnc at the convention in 2016 Six days marching like eight miles a day and over a hundred degrees. I mean it was insane Um, but I couldn't have gone through that week were not for my brothers and sisters with me Um, so I will be doing that again. I already have my place booked in Milwaukee. So I'll be flying out from pennsylvania Um, it is according to tom pares not that I trust him But he said in his squeaky annoying voice that it's still going on. He said that a few days ago Um, so if it's still going on I am there. I am in the streets. I'll be filming if it does go Uh become virtual and it's canceled. I am organizing with one other person a protest in dc at the dnc headquarters Either way They're going to fucking hear me like either way I will be there and I will have other comrades. Whoever wants to come They're gonna listen period. Um, what will it do? I don't know, but it fucking felt good At least selfishly, I don't know, but at least it felt good like it felt like I'm you know saying like fuck you like You know and and look at the dem exit numbers like you did this yourself tough shit Yeah, they're hemorrhaging support and that will continue and maybe you know Joe Biden can squeak by and win, but that's not going to change the underlying Issues with the democratic party and I will say one good thing that we can take away from this election And just Bernie Sanders that phenomenon in general even if it's over I think and this is corny one of the greatest gifts that he gave us was each other We like we've made so many great friends, you know throughout this process Um, you know, there's so many people that I know personally like my mom who was awakened politically for the first time Um, and this is this is so special like that there's real value in that So it's not like all of this was done for nothing. I don't want people to take that away all of the effort that we did Make to get Bernie elected We don't know how that's going to pay off But even if you know in your life, you just convinced one extra person that is huge That is huge because it takes all of us at an individual level To you know have an effect on the on the macro level, you know, um, so that's what I will say Um, is there anything before we get to your special announcement that you wanted to talk about because we could basically talk For days and not run out of things to say But is there anything that you kind of had that you wanted to bring up on cam? I don't think so. I mean, I have a lot of great shows coming up. Um I don't know. Um, I don't think so. I think we we talked on much of it I You know when I post these things about Bernie people some people get very defensive and you know I have to I have to clarify a lot. Look, I love him. I will always love him But he's pissing me off like it's that simple. Um, and I took uh The bernie poster down that I've had every show for three years um, because I just I I don't maybe it'll go back up one day I don't know but you know, my audience was kind of upset, you know that I did and I'm like, look I'm going through grieving period here. Like I When I look at that I see pain right now. I don't need to look at it Um, so, you know, I think a lot of people are grieving a different way. Um I'm glad I got to vote today, but it's still kind of, you know, sore. Um, but And I think we're all dealing with that, you know despair and depression and hopelessness um in our own way and I'm just looking forward to Being an activist again because you can't be one right now. Unfortunately, like Armchair activism is not my thing. I want to get back out like on the Capitol steps and stuff like that. Um So the the forced agoraphobia is not really my thing. I'm looking forward to just You know get it back out there Yeah, yeah, I I totally get that. Um, and as someone with actual agoraphobia, like I literally have agoraphobia Um, this is even too much for me, right? Because I didn't know that Yeah, yeah, I have agoraphobia. I've made some progress over the course of the last, um A couple of years, but I mean with anything you kind of backslide Um, but you know, this is even like a bit much to me because there is like a greater sense of like being confined And even though that that's comforting to me in a way It's still really uneasy, right? Because if I want to go, um, you know, get a bean and cheese burrito from Taco Bell Um, I don't want to have to like get on the mask get hand sanitizer. Like it's just it's a lot It's a lot and that's like totally a first world problem, right? I could be way worse off But you know, it's it is a scary time in general, you know, my best friend. She has COVID You know, she's a healthcare worker. My niece is in healthcare and I'm terribly worried about her So I just want everyone to Be able to move past COVID and I think that once we do get past this and we will get past this I think then we can kind of Figure out what to do next and I will say to people who are feeling depressed because it's certainly not just us You know, there's nothing that we can say that is going to make you feel better But hopefully it's comforting to know that you're not experiencing this alone There's a lot of people online who need people to talk to who, you know, will text with you and call with you Um, and even if that doesn't necessarily seem like it's something you want, trust me It does really help just talking to someone about things It's important like see one of the things that Irritates me is, you know, whenever these types of issues pop up and we discuss mental health nationally, you know as a country It's always oh seek help get a therapist. A lot of people don't have money for that or insurance Um, so we have to make do with what we uh, what we've got and you know Talking to people with the same types of issues who are going through the same thing. A lot of us are experiencing this right now Um, it really does help. So I will I will leave people with that Um, we don't want any anyone to come away, you know, feeling like there's no hope It feels like that now, but there have been times where we felt like this before and we felt hopeful again Like the world keeps turning, you know, the sun will rise again But right now it's all darkness. Um, and It sucks. It seems like there's no light at the end of the tunnel But I genuinely believe as I said to my core. I am an optimist. I believe things will get better Um, and that's deep within like you have to like really dig to find that belief in me But I know it's there. I know it's there and I know that things will get better. It's not going to be perfect We're not going to live in a utopia, but you know better than now. Um, because How could it possibly, you know, um, well, I shouldn't say how can it get worse? Um, but I think things are good I'm not going to jinx it knock on wood I think, you know, the thing is like I I you know, I get so down sometimes and then I think You know, it's kind of try but like at the end of the day I do not want near a tandem and elissa malano giving each other cheers with mimosas that i'm crying in the corner So fuck that like they're not going to see me like continually like Down because that's what they want and it's trite, but it's freaking true They relish in us being sad. Oh bernie draw. They don't get it. It's it's not, you know, in their Conceptually, they're just too immature, but um, so fuck it, you know, yeah, we're down and out We're allowed to be down, but get back up Exactly if anything be more annoying be a bigger thorn in the sides of the establishment Give these fuckers hell because they've given it to us And yeah, I think that's such a great thing to point out like don't be down because that's exactly what they want and they've won But I mean the fact that we almost won is kind of astonishing because this is like a grassroots movement And we took on a capitalist machine like a global capitalist leader like that's kind of fucking insane If you think about what we went up against and we almost won right we didn't but it's still remarkable Um, so there is a there there. We just got to harness it And uh try to move on Um, so I will say that you have a very special announcement Um about the next project that you're working on. I got spoilers and I love it. I'm so excited Take it away joy I had to tell someone like I Anyone who watches my show knows like I don't keep things and I don't really but so when people come to me and they're like, yo Breaking but you can't tell anyone. I'm like Oh, yeah So I've been working on this for like almost a month and I'm like gonna explode but um So myself and peter douche slash Nate sliver slash pat the burner pat coat Um, all one person, uh, and I are writing his next um our next parody. Um, which is on the resistance um trademark so it's all about karenisms and You know just the hypocrisy and we hate bernie bros And all of those things and we are just having so much fun writing it Um, we have given ourselves a due date of june 30th Um, and we will be doing pre orders sometime around there Um, and the reason we're trying to write it so quickly Well, first of all the you know the resistors on twitter are kind of helping us write it themselves to be quite honest Yeah, um, but the reason we We set that date um for next month is because we hope to have them edited and printed by the time we go to So we can you know sign them for people and and stuff there. Um Pat's last book the peter douche book. Um was a huge success. So, um One day I was like, I'm so fucking depressed write a book with me and he's like really I was like, yes, and he's like, okay I was We've just been having a blast with it and and I'm so happy that I finally got to uh Say something because I haven't even told my organization that my show is on like literally Except my husband and you And peter douche But I will say that um all of our favorite characters are going to be in it all of our favorite shit lives um make at least a small appearance um and uh and All I'll say is um some of our favorite burners will make an appearance to Nice It's it's geared to make people laugh and it's actually making us laugh while we're writing it So I think it'll be kind of cathartic for people to be like, oh my god. I saw people say that it's so hilarious like And just kind of you know, if we don't laugh we'll cry like that kind of thing Yeah, I'm excited for people to read it. I think it'll be really great I am so excited. Um and like I got a little bit of you know background information about some of the shit lipped characters You guys are gonna die laughing. Um and just the fact that you mentioned the karenisms will be included in the book Uh, I feel like we need this right now. So I'm looking forward to it what gave me the idea is is watching the disgusting responses from women about tari I was like, I I can't even I gotta like Do something like poetically or or something like this to to just let me escape from this because I am It is so egregious. And then I was like, let's just Take, you know, make Alyssa Milano and such is already a parody essentially. So, you know, let's just do something with that And then also, you know last year I lost over 70 percent of my eyesight. So this is a you know And I was an English major. So this is you know, I haven't been able to really write. So this has been very Very Good for me. Um, that's so awesome So that I can I can still do what I love to do Yeah, that's that's so awesome And it's not just like helping you like this is something that I think a lot of people are going to love Like we need to laugh like you said like if we don't laugh then we're gonna cry. So we need to laugh Um, I just I okay. I gotta press you a little bit And you don't have to say this because I don't want to spoil it But Alyssa Milano's character. Can we get any background? On on on that any name for her? I'm not gonna give her name, but um, let's just say We are kind of going through tweets to kind of You know, I mean, there's no way you're not gonna know who these characters. Yeah. Yeah Let's just put it that way like you're if you're on twitter, you know who these people are Oh, yeah, here. There's gonna be no discussion Yeah Sude The legality of this because uh fair use fair use. I've had to be very very like, um I had to do a lot of research about fair use and that is that's all parody. That's fair game So they can't touch you and if they try, uh, they're in the wrong um, but Saying what they said. So if they find it offensive They need to be self-critical because we're just literally saying what they themselves said Yeah, stop being such a self parody if you don't want to be in a literal parody book. Like maybe maybe that, you know um I'm looking forward to it. They don't turn around and write one about me. They'll be like she talks like a valley girl and You know But you know fair game, I guess Hey, they're not they're not artistic enough to do something like that. These are shills. These are corporate ghouls They don't care So we've got to make fun of them because that's all we got That's the that's the best that we can do to make ourselves feel better and anyone who is like very online on twitter I already know that they're gonna love this based on what you've told me behind the scenes So, uh, yeah, we'll bring you and pat the burner back on to talk about this when it releases I always got to support, you know progressive projects. I'm looking forward to this joy Tell the people what we can do to watch your show and where to find you online um, so, uh, you can find me on twitter at at savage joy marie one um, and That's good to follow me for all my upcoming shows. Um, and also for updates on the book and you know a link to pre-order um Also, you can follow my shows and see about 300 back episodes on real progress in action on YouTube we just became a 501 c3. Um, so we had to change the name to kind of You know become that 501 c3 and keep politics separate from our economic side um, so yeah follow us on there and check me out on twitter and I post a lot of uh savage things i'm told so yeah, yeah the name is uh, I think Representative of your character savage joy. I didn't give it to myself. So I hope so Well joy it is always a pleasure. We are always happy to have you on the show Thank you for just like you know shooting the breeze and Helping to digest what the fuck just happened over the last two years Yeah, so we'll have to watch this back and be like, I don't know. We were kind of off or whoa, we were psychic Like it'll be interesting. Yeah, I've I've had, you know, both of those reactions to myself like wow I nailed it or oh, I was wrong. So we'll see it'll be interesting All right, thank you so much for having me on I love you. I adore you to pieces Oh same same. Absolutely. It's always fun to talk shit with you Subscribe if you like this video folks Mike's tremendous and he's doing a really really good job Many people are telling me about how wonderful the humanist report is bigly