 Five o'clock block on a given Monday, wow. And this is Community Matters, I'm Jay Fiedel and more specifically we're going to talk about the business of EV charging with Sean Moorhead. He's doing a lot about EV charging. Welcome to the show Sean. Thanks Jay, pleasure to be here. Appreciate you having me on. Well, tell us about your company, tell us about its mission, tell us about its connection with the utility. Sure thing, sure thing. So again, my name is Sean Moorhead and I lead a local business called Ever Charge Hawaii. And our mission is to deploy electric vehicle chargers everywhere we can throughout the state. But more specifically, we focus in the multi-unit residential and commercial environments and we also do fleet charging as well. And the reason for that is that our technology is able to overcome a lot of the standard issues that we see for deploying electric vehicle chargers in those types of environments. Here in Hawaii we have, you know, most of the folks here, I think it's over 50% of our residents live in some sort of multi-unit building. And in order to supply the needed electricity to the coming onslaught of electric vehicles who are filling up those garages, you know, we need chargers in those environments. So in many cases, the buildings that I go into are 30, 40, 50 years old and they just don't have very much electrical capacity for EV charging. So with Ever Chargers technology, we're able to overcome that issue, we're able to put in electric vehicle chargers at a more affordable price in terms of installation and in terms of the cost of the equipment. And we offer more customization options as well. So if properties are interested in having a return on investment or to create a charging system that generates revenue over the time for the property, we can go ahead and do that. And we can also come up with some pretty unique time limits and different sort of structures that help the system fit the needs of that community. So we were brought here specifically through a partnership with Pacific Current which is a subsidiary of Hawaiian Electric Industries and Evercharge Inc. on the main lines. They came together to produce a joint venture called Evercharge Hawaii to which I lead. And more specifically, as I'm sure many of you viewers have seen, Hawaiian Electric The Utility has an electrification of transportation roadmap. And one of the primary pillars of that roadmap is electric vehicle charging in order to stimulate a conversion away from fossil fuel-based transportation methods and more toward electricity-based transportation methods. You need to have charging stations available everywhere where we can essentially put one. So that's my mission in Evercharge Hawaii and to do that. Okay. Now I was telling you before the show that three or four years ago in an energy day program at Launia K. downtown, I was button-holding an executive from Hawaiian Electric and I suggested that they should incentivize people like you to do charging stations because it was harder for the utility itself to do that. And they should incentivize you and make it easy for you and give you special connections, so to speak. And because the notion is that we're not gonna have a robust acceptance of electric vehicles until we have charging stations all over the place. And I could count the number of people I know who were on the edge of that, waiting for the charging station. You're right, Jay. It's a chicken and the egg problem. You wanna buy that brand new Tesla or the new Nissan Leaf or something like that, but you don't have a charger, maybe in your parking environment or near your home. And so you don't buy the car. But the day we come in and put in a charger, we find that the rate of adoption in electric vehicles in that community or in that general area skyrockets. So you're right. Essentially, we need more chargers out there and to even dive into that a little bit further, I think before you talk about charging, you have to talk about electric vehicles because they go hand in hand and they're literally connected there. So across the state, the Hawaii State Energy Office has reported now, I think it's over 13,000 electric vehicles are registered. Nice, but not enough. Sorry. Not enough. I know I agree. Working on this for 10 years, it's not enough. You and me both, Jay. But I will say there is some promising news here. So Hawaiian Electric Company in that electrification of transportation roadmap has predicted that there will be over 430,000 electric vehicles only on a Wahoo by 2045. So yes, we're a long way away from that, but I would also say that, the private market has to respond here as well. So when you look at Tesla and the popularity of Tesla, I'd say has really gone up in the past years. I've seen more Teslas on the road over the past month or two than I ever have before. Then you look at all the other major automakers like GM and others that, and I think GM has 23 different electric vehicle models coming out next year, and they're not making any more internal combustion engines after 2035. So I think, even though there are only 13,000 electric vehicles registered across the state today, I think that we're just starting in terms of the rate of adoption. I think that curve is gonna skyrocket in the coming years, and that's why it's so critical to have electric vehicle charging out there to support that increased adoption. Because once it happens, it happens. And even more so, I'll give you some feedback from where the rubber meets the road, so to say. But if you go into a lot of the parking environments that I'm going into, there's two, three, maybe four, five, six Teslas sitting around or a couple other models, but there's not 50% occupancy of electric vehicles. So right now I think it's really important that you're showing on the screen that the dual charging system there at the Royal Hawaiian Center, it's a perfect example. They don't need a hundred EV chargers at the moment, they just need two. And that will support the level of charging that they need while there's five, 10, 20 Teslas in the garage. And then in 10, 20 years, or even let's say, hopefully in my opinion, in five years, there'll be a couple hundred electric vehicles in that garage and they will scale up their charging systems from there. So it's a really good example of what a lot of properties are doing to distinguish themselves and attract new residents. On the residential side, it definitely increases property value. So there's a lot of benefits to EV charging. And we tend to look at it like an amenity. So I would divide the locations for chargers in three parts. One, my home, a residence, a single family, multiple outhouse kind of place where there's a parking lot, open parking lot out there somewhere. And a garage, which contains my car only, just a few cars. The second is a condo apartment building, kind of a fair, where there's a lot of cars. Or a public building, a business building, a government building category. And the third category is on the street. On the street, in what used to be a gas station or some public place with a curb cut and you can get in there and charge yourself. Okay, so I'll tell you the problems I see with all three of them and you can tell me how you're dealing with it. That sounds good. At home, it's expensive and I probably only have low voltage. So I can't put a fast charger in so quickly without some kind of step up device. Two is the garage and condo or a big building with a big parking lot, whether it's a few, well, I guess it would be a lot of cars there and a lot of say condo units all over the place. And people would like to have the charging station at their car, lots of luck for that. Or in a special place, just for electric vehicles, where you drive, leave it to charge and then take off later. And the challenge there is that that's very expensive, especially concrete all around the parking lot. You got to put new wires in there. It's very expensive if you do that for like one person who has one car and he wants it in his stall is a challenge. Then the third thing is the gas stations. You can say that gas stations are going away by 2035 and maybe to a large extent, that's true. I can't think of a residual thing that gas stations might do. Maybe do with motor vehicle inspections and give you the gas. But I can't think of anything else but it doesn't justify as the highest and best use of a corner property, you know? But- I totally agree. And the transition, you know, while they're still selling petroleum, would be a great place to put a charging station so that people know that you wanna have your car charged or charged with gas just private in this place and get under the marquee and charge up. And if you could, for example, put all of them, you know, get every single gas station or the charging station, put one at every single gas station, it would solve the problem. But the problem is that, I mean, the challenge on that is that, you know, it doesn't justify spending the money to make a deal with the gas station owner. It justifies spending the money, putting it online, putting it in a charger when you know that ultimately that gas station may fold up under you. So, you know, after say 2035, which is not that far away. So those are my three location possibilities. Those are the challenges I see, Evan Iscio. What responses do you have on the challenges? Sure, sure, sure. Well, I think first, we think about EV charging a little bit more in the type of charger as opposed to the use of that charger, I should say, as opposed to the environment itself. But before I jump into that, I wanna talk a little bit more about kind of the behavior of EV charging. Because, you know, we all drive, well, most of us have driven up to this point unless you have an EV today, you've driven an internal combustion engine, which means you drive that car until it's empty, then you fill it up. You know, some folks like my dad, they fill it up every time it gets to halfway. Others like my wife likes to run on the last drop before she fills it up. But that's not- My wife fills it up if it goes down to 90%. She's topping it off as often as she can. Excellent, smart gal. But the key there, I think when it comes to electric vehicle charging, is it's much more akin to charging your cell phone than it is to refilling your gas tank. So, and what I mean by that is when you come home at the end of the day, you get in bed and presumably your phone's dead, you charge it, you go to sleep, you wake up, it's full, you go about your day. You go to work, your phone starts to die, perhaps you've had a bunch of zoom calls that day, you plug in your phone. You go to the coffee shop, you're running a little bit behind, you didn't have a chance to charge your phone in the car, you plug it in for a minute or two. You know, that's kind of the behavior of EV charging as opposed to just stopping in one shot and going from zero to fully charged, the same way that you think about an internal question. I totally agree. We have learned from phones. That's exactly the right technique, what you're describing. I guess that's the silver lining to all the negativity that comes with it. But in any case, so back to your question though, you know, we think about charging in three main ways and it's based on the use of that charging system. So the first use is private charging. And that's the example you gave, I'll even put myself in this position. I live in an apartment complex. I live in unit 200 and I am deeded two stalls that came with the purchase of my unit. And I would love to have a charger in that stall. So how do I go about doing that? Well, we consider that private charging because if I went about installing a charger there, I would be the only one that uses it. It's technically attached to my unit. If I sell my unit, I can sell it as an EV charged ready unit, which of course increases resale value, but it isn't amenity for that owner. And you gotta have a meter somehow, right? Because you have to charge me for electricity, right? Jay, great segue, thank you. Every ever charge EV charger has a meter built in. So we are tracking how much electricity is delivered through every electric vehicle charger. And not just that. Very, very good. The next question that I get is, well, how do you attach the charger to the unit? Because maybe unit 200 is on the 10th floor. So probably the unit, you know, 1,000 at that rate. But let's say it's on the 10th floor. You can't run an extension cord from the charger up 10 floors. So every charge overcomes that by handling the billing. And what I specifically mean by that is that we connect the charger to common area electricity. Maybe something that's powering a laundry room, for example, or a lift gate at the front of the garage. And so the charger draws its power from there, which increases the bill that the property owner, the resident manager, or the association pays. So when the user of the charging station plugs in their vehicle and charges, they pay ever charge. They have an account with us. It's billed on a monthly basis. You throw our online portal, very, very simple. But anyway, they pay us, we collect those payments, and we reimburse the association, the property manager, or the building owner for that increased cost of electricity. So it zeros out. Of course, if the property wants to charge an additional fee, they're more than welcome to do so, which is where we start talking about revenue generation. And all this is driven off the meter on that charging station, those both ways. You charge your customer, and you reimburse the condominium association all based on what you find on that meter. Correct, all based on usage, exactly. So if you only charge once a month, you don't pay any more electricity costs than that single charging event. That's how it works. But that's private charging. But what I'm seeing actually here in Hawaii is more community charging. Before we leave private charging. Yeah, please, please, go ahead. Somebody has to draw the lines or the laundry room or wherever the source of power is to your stall on the 10th floor or whatever wherever it is in the building. And so that's a substantial expense. Assuming you can make a deal with the condo association to allow you to put the wires through the common areas, it costs plenty to do the construction. How do you handle that? You advertise that with your client. How do you pay for that? So we partner with a number of local electrical contractors, specifically who do electric vehicle charger installation. So let's say I have a stall, I install my charger on it. The line is run from that stall into the electrical room where it pulls off of a panel that might also be supplying a couple of dryers in the laundry room. But what voltage do you need? Great question. We're looking for either 208 or 240 volt voltage. And we're looking for an electrical panel that can give us at least 40 amps, an open circuit providing at least 40 amps. That's why it always gets the try- That's a medium charger. That's not the most high powered or the most low powered, it's somewhere in the middle. Correct. So we have level one charging which is a standard wall outlet that you would use to power a light like anywhere else in your home. You would use an extension cord and plug that into your car and you'd probably get somewhere in the range of five ish miles per hour of charge. Then you have level three charging, which is fast charging. Now these require a ton of electrical infrastructure. Most of the time you have to coordinate the amount of electricity running into that with HECO because of the large infrastructure costs. And those chargers are just not cost effective for any sort of residential environment. To sit out in a lot like around town, the HECO fast chargers, those are perfect there because you pull in for 30 minutes and you go. But to put one of those chargers inside of a residential environment, the electrical capacity requirements would just be too cost prohibitive. So what we're talking about here today and what the standard, the gold standard for EV charging in any type of residential or community or commercial or office is level two charging. And that's using 208 or 240 volt power. Typically one charger is matched with 140 amp circuit. But as I was kind of leading in the beginning here, many of the buildings in Hawaii just don't have that electrical capacity available in the garage. So that's why EverCharge is kind of the solution that matches the need in the market here because we can take whatever spare capacity is available and put that into a charger. And specifically to dive into that for just a second, our technology is called smart power. It's essentially a power optimization software. Let's say we have two chargers being fed by 140 amp circuit. If one person is using one of the chargers, they're getting all of the amperage that's available. If two people are using those chargers, then the electricity is delivered in a manner that is fair and equitable, but also in a way that provides both vehicles with a level two charge, even though there's only 140 amp circuit feeding both. So that's how come we can overcome some of these challenges in the older buildings and our slogan is we can do more charging on less electrical infrastructure because that's what we do. How does that work? Is it sort of like magic or something? You have some battery or as a capacitor that accumulates the electrical charge and holds the capacitor kind of thing and then distributes it when necessary. There must be a way that you can save it in a given place. That makes this possible, right? It's not magic. It's just electronics. It's a secret sauce of course because it is a software that does route the electricity in a certain way. But when someone plugs into an electric vehicle charger, specifically an ever charged charger, we're reading how much battery that vehicle has left. And we also, I would say there's a limit on how much electricity can be delivered in a certain amount of time for every vehicle. It's just the delivery limit of that battery. So our charger is sensing that and it's delivering as much electricity as it can based on the power source that's feeding that electric vehicle charger. So there's an algorithm that depends on a number of things, Jay, but the idea there is that the PowerSmart software that we have is able to overcome the electrical capacity issues to still get level two charging out, even when buildings do have very limited electrical capacity to devote to EV charging. Is it saving the electricity in some sort of storage technique? No, it's not. It's just rerouting it. The charger doesn't save or it's not a battery at all. It's just, it's routing the electricity in the most efficient way depending on the circumstance, the vehicle, how much electricity is available. And you know, backing up just one second too, our chargers can also read how much electricity is being pulled from that panel in other directions as well. So let's say you have a garage full of 100 electric vehicle chargers. Well, everyone comes home at 6pm, flips on their AC, decides to turn on all of their TVs and all their appliances. What we can do is set our chargers to read that, respond and ramp down so that it doesn't push that building into a higher utility rate schedule. So it's kind of panel level power optimization and also building level power optimization. And that's something that's really unique because when we talk about the future of EV charging, what's really, we're really seeking and the conversations in a lot of circles is bi-directional charging. In other words, if 100 vehicles come home at 6pm and plug in to that building, that common area electricity, they can actually give their power back to the building from their vehicles. Now today that would void every electric vehicle battery warranty. So you don't want to do that. But the idea is that you want to prepare the market by putting out chargers that have that capability so that when the cars are able to do that and when utility is integrated into that demand response capability, the charging equipment is able to accomplish that task. So that's where we're going. But what we're also going is that when the driver comes back at 6pm, he's trained to plug the thing in. Whether he needs the power or not. It's that pop-off thing you talked about with the cell phones. You always want to be plugged in when you can and if a charge wants to have that charging station available to you for plug-in. So you don't have to worry about whether it's high or low or what. You just always plug in when you can. So come back to the, go ahead. Jay, that's a great segue into community charging because the average charging event that we see is only about three hours. I mean, when a lot of people think about electric vehicle charging, they think, oh, I got to plug in my vehicle for 10 hours and go from zero to full. But that's not really the case. And most times people are just trying to replace the miles that they drove that day or the past few days. And here in Hawaii, our average commute is under 20 miles a day. And on a level two charger, one hour of EV charging will get you between 20 and 35 miles per hour of charging. So if you drove just 20 miles today, you only need to charge for one hour and you're back to full power. So that's why to, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I want to go back to my private house in my private garage. It's an economic for me to put one of those EV charges in there. It sounds like it's very sophisticated and it's going to cost somebody a lot of money to do the construction and to run the equipment and all that is expensive. Is it worth it or should I forget about it and try to charge elsewhere? It depends on your driving habits, Jay. And it depends also on your single family residence. I mean, how much electrical capacity do you have to dedicate to EV charging? If you've upgraded your home to 200 amp service and you've got that much power, sure, put it. Plus I have it. Well, if you have it, then it's probably, and you don't drive very much, probably more economical to be honest with you if you just use a trickle charger from an extension cord. But if you're driving, let's say, your commute is across the island every single day and you want to have a fast charger, you can certainly do so and put it in your garage in a cost-effective way, absolutely. But I think whatever charge is really focused is in that multi-unit market, whether it is commercial or residential, because again, with 50% of people in Hawaii living in that type of environment, and how many of us go to an office? I mean, not so much anymore, but our daily lives pre-COVID was everyone is at the office all day. So what you want to do is match charging to where people park and where do they park most? At home, at the office, at the grocery store. So that's where you want to provide charging. And that's where that community charging aspect comes in, right? Because instead of me living in unit 200 and putting an EV charger in my stall, what if my association or my building owner or my office workplace puts in, let's say two, four, six, eight, 10, a few chargers, let's say, for everyone in the community to use. Now, everyone pays to use those chargers, there would, you know, assumingly the property would want to incorporate some kind of fee that would help them recuperate that return on investment for putting those charging stations out. But after which, you know, that charging station is actually a revenue generator, whether it's a residential environment or a commercial environment or a retail center. I mean, the Royal Hawaiian Center provides free EV charging to anyone visiting that ever charged charging station that was on the screen earlier today. Another one of our installations at the Pacific Club provides free EV charging to all members. And then of course we've got EV chargers and other residential environments where the cost, the hourly cost of EV charging, what drivers pay when they plug in their vehicle is still much cheaper than what you would pay for gasoline or if you charge in other locations. So you're happy to have a charger even if you are sharing it with folks. And since most people are only charging for less than three hours a day, you know, right now community charging makes sense. But someday, when there are, you know, 50 to 100 electric vehicles in every single garage, hopefully sooner rather than later, that's when I think everyone is really gonna want their own charger in their own stall in their single family environment at their parking space at work. And that's where that kind of the future amenity of EV charging will be going. But I don't want to forget your question there in that the last type of instance you mentioned was kind of street side or what we call public charging. And that's something that we do much less of, you know, ever charges a fully managed EV charging platform. You know, we want to take the responsibility of electric vehicle charging off of the property manager, off of that building owner, off of whoever is managing that site. You know, we want it to be our responsibility to manage anything that has to do with charging. And in public environments, you know, that's just not a match there. Because in public environments, you kind of just throw a charger out, set it and forget it. Who owns that space? Maybe the county, maybe the state. We're not sure. I think that is public charging is where HECO I think does what they do best in terms of electric vehicle charging, putting it out. But in the private instances, that's where companies like EverCharge really thrive. Yeah, well, your technology is for the shared unit. I wanted to ask you, in case you have like a specific club, well, a specific club is paying you for this and allowing it as an amenity to, you know, it's members and all that. So that sounds very, you know, easy to do that. But if you have a facility where people are coming and they're charging individually, you have to know how much electricity they're taking. You have to have a way that they can pay you on the spot, I guess, or by some billing tech. How do they pay for their charge? Sure, great question. So there's a couple of ways. You can pay on the spot, one time transaction. Typically we do that through a QR code. If you've gone out to eat recently or gone to any sort of restaurant, you pull out your phone, you scan the QR code and it takes you to that restaurant's menu. It's the same way for EV charging. You plug in your vehicle, you walk up to the charger, you scan the barcode, and it brings you right to the payment page. We collect the payment, we reimburse the building for that cost of... Do I have to belong to something? Do I have to be a member of something? Not at all, not at all. You can pull up to any charger and scan that barcode, just like you can go to any restaurant and scan that barcode and get to menu. But, you know, in most private residences or even in some commercial areas, you don't want sometimes the general public to come in and use your charger. We're working with the cross-point community, which is kind of a townhome condo community, and they're putting chargers in their lot for shared use by residents only. So what happens in that case is once we install those chargers, we send a flyer out to all the residents and they say, anyone with an electric vehicle are interested in using the Evercharge EV chargers, you go on our website, you put in a couple of simple pieces of information the same way you would put in for Netflix or Hulu or any other account like that, name, phone number, email address, payment information. We mail you out an access card. Now that access card sits in your wallet, some folks keep it in the glove compartment of their EV. When you pull up to the charger, you scan that card and it unlocks the charger. And what that does is it reserves the charging only for the folks in that community who have registered with Evercharge and received that membership card. But the second thing that it does is it links that card to that user's account. So if this is me, again, in unit 200 using a community charger, I go up and scan it, I charge every day for three hours. The 15th of the next month, I log into my account and I see what my total bill was. I see how much electricity I used for each single charging event that I had. And then my, let's say I set up my account with AutoPay. So I don't even see it go out. Evercharge just deducts that money for my account on a monthly basis. So that's how the payment of the EV charging systems would work. Yeah, but you know, all this leaves me though with the sense that so if I don't have the infrastructure, the capacity to do an Evercharge charger in my home, my own garage, and a lot of homes do not have a lot of capacity, then I gotta use a trickle charger and you're not doing that. That's another arrangement, another paradigm. Well, you could just, yeah, you could just use an extension cord at that rate. You know, you're doing level one charging and if you're not driving that much, you know, that's great. I have an auntie who has an Nissan Leaf who drives maybe 10 miles a month, you know, very few miles driven. Heck, you know, she just plugs her in her car when she's done driving it and it's fully charged by overnight. You know, it's slow and it works for her, but you know, in terms of scaling up to a place where, you know, everyone has EV chargers, that slow charge just isn't gonna do it. So we do need to use, we need to use accommodation. You're focused on big buildings with multiple units, multiple parking stalls where, you know, it's economies of scale where you can afford to put it in, you can put it in the reserved spaces for electric vehicles or whatever the condo or the building owner wants you to do. And then there's a way for everybody who is part of that building or has access to that building to come and get charged. And I see that as a lot of people. I also see a lot of people who don't have connections with big buildings or, you know, situations where they could, you know, use the Evercharge charging system, if you will. And what about those guys? Sure. But what about those? Because, you know, we really should be doing charging everywhere if we're ramping up to the General Motors 2035 date and, you know, and ultimately the 2045 date for clean energy. You know, I would, to say, I would like to see, we'd all like to see this thing being completely ubiquitous where everybody, and there's no disparity while it's charging justice, how about that? I like it. I like it. I like it. Everybody can do it. Now, you're going to focus your business organization. You're going to focus on what works for you, what can give you the best business advantage and so forth. But what about the rest of the people who are outside of the, you know, the sort of the zone in which you will, you know, deploy your technology? Sure. Well, Jay, I mean, we can put a charger in any environment, single-family residence, multi-unit, we can definitely get you an EV charger there. However, if you don't need all the bells and whistles and you don't need the payment collection methods and you don't need, you know, the 24-7 service, the diagnostics, the monitoring and all of the turnkey advantages that the Evercharge system provides and you just want the most basic form of EV charger that you can possibly get at the cheapest price you can get it, there's EV chargers on Amazon that certainly do that and you can connect them into a circuit in your house panel but it'll work great. And if it suits your needs, then heck, I'm for it. I think, you know, the answer there is we need all types of EV charging. We need public EV chargers, you know, and I see that the utility as being, you know, best position to provide those types of chargers, we need private EV chargers and multi-unit residences and commercial multi-unit and retail centers and hotels and other types of lots and that's where Evercharge can come in. And then of course we need everyone to have access to a charger in places that they may not even think about it. I mean, you pull up to let's say the Polynesian Cultural Center or a small shop in Hollywood, there should be a charger somewhere nearby. And I think that's where the combination of public and private charging really comes to a head to really accomplish that. But I think where you're going with this, Jay, is kind of where are the policy incentives here that the state can put in that would really stimulate electric vehicle charging, right? And- That's where I'm going, you got it, you nailed it. What was the answer to that? Well, I could sense it there, but I'd say it's a combination again. I'll give you a very similar answer. And it's a combination of county, state and federal policy to incentivize both electric vehicle adoption, right? Because more electric vehicles means that the demand for charging goes up, which will correlate to the supply of chargers being out in the world. But I'd say the incentivization of electric vehicle charging is also incredibly important. And what I mean by that is a good example, the state allocated $400,000 to Hawaii Energy to manage an electric vehicle charging incentive rebate program. And what Hawaii Energy was doing is they were giving $4,500 to any community, either commercial, residential, for the installation of a dual charger. So that's two EV chargers sitting on one post or mounted on the wall together in one charging station. And $4,500 forever charge, that covers the equipment and stuff. Unlike our competitors, we are a more affordable charging solution because we are the manufacturer and ongoing service provider of our charging stations, not one or the other. So that rebate really incentivized, I mean, I have over 20 properties that capture that rebate to put out the EV chargers and it's benefited them immensely. And it was kind of the match that lighted the fire to get them that amenity. And now they're marketing their buildings as EV charger ready, their residents are buying electric vehicles more often, they've seen the rate of adoption increase, and their community is already generating that return on investment. So it kind of makes sense, but to get back to the policy, I think the city and county passed Bill 25, which mandates new commercial developments to install either a certain number of electric vehicle chargers or the infrastructure that would support a certain number of electric vehicle chargers in the future, depending on how many total parking stalls they have. So that was a really big policy initiative that I've already worked with a number of communities to put out. And back to your point on equity, the incentivization through the Hawaii Energy rebate program provided additional rebates to certain types of housing for income requirements to ensure that those places aren't left behind when charging stations are deployed. So that was a really good linked county policy I thought through Hawaii Energy and through Bill 25. Of course, many of the developers and property managers are probably not so happy about it, but this is an oncoming revolution in the way people move and we need charging stations out there. But if you kind of scale up the ladder from the county to the state level, I just wanna make sure I get the Bill numbers right. Well, we had SB 1142 and SB 773 that you're currently going through the state legislative program. And that's specifically to fund EV charging stations and EV incentive schemes. So at the state level, there's additional policy measures that are being put into place that go ahead and to support EVs and electric vehicle charging. And then we climbed that ladder just one step further. I'm sure we all have opinions about President Biden's infrastructure plan. But from my perspective that they're doing a lot to support electric vehicle adoption and incentivizing the deployment of charging stations. So I think when you talk about public and private combination or partnership to really stimulate a movement, I think we've got all of the chess pieces on the board both from a legislative perspective and from a market perspective with GM and others coming to market with these new electric vehicles. So that we're gonna see charging stations and EVs on the road more and more and more. And it's already a thing and it's gonna be very, very common in the future. Is there anything else you want? Anything else you want from the regulators or from the legislature? You know, not off the top of my head. I'm sure that I could come up with a long list if I had a little more time for that question, Jay. But I think we all could come up with a long list from that perspective. It's easier to come up with a gripe than it is a compliment sometimes. But you know, I think- You gotta look for the future. Things are changing. You mentioned earlier that COVID had an effect. And indeed, COVID has an effect on big buildings. And a lot of plans of mice and men have been changed because of COVID in terms of where you live and what's your living arrangements and your business arrangements. If I had a building with a lot of space in it with tenants had failed in the course of COVID, I would be concerned. And I suppose if you installed some charging station equipment in a building that was changing use and this one downtown, it used to be an office building and they're making it into a condo, there's gotta be a change in the way that works. I mean, you know, so you have got to be, you have got a certain amount of flexibility of nimbleness as you watch the community change and COVID accelerated that change and probably will continue to accelerate that change. So sometimes you may have to change the equipment, take it out, put it somewhere else, be wired, I don't know what. But the question is, are you ready to do that? I'd say yes. And you know, the unique thing about EverCharges that we have a lot of foresight, you know, we're thinking about the future, we're thinking about the next evolution of BB charging. You know, it's what keeps us up at night. Yeah, I've lost a lot of sleep. My wife is not happy about it, but over EV charging and where we're going with this. But I think, you know, to your point there, electric vehicle charging isn't just going to be a static technology. So what we've done to combat that is that we actually can monitor, change the preferences and provide diagnostic to support to every single charging station that we've ever installed through a wireless network. So when you install a charging station many times, they have to access on-site data capabilities through telecoms wiring or that site's Wi-Fi. EverCharge uses Verizon LTE communications, the same as your cell phone, to communicate with every charging station that we've ever installed. So that in the example that you gave if a building decides to put out charging stations for a residential environment and change that to a commercial environment later, we just update the settings and send out a software update to that charging network and boom, they're ready for their new charging environment. So, you know, we do have a little foresight in trying to predict that those changes when and always do happen. And hopefully we can just do a quick software update without having to send anyone on-site. And that is something that does make us unique as well. That's great. Well, are you the biggest player in town when it comes to doing this kind of charging station installation or do you have competition that sets your heels? You know, I don't think my head would fit out the door if I said I was the biggest player in town. So I'll defer that title nomination, but I will say that, you know, we are the electric vehicle charging company in Hawaii. We manufacture the chargers that we sell and we provide the ongoing service to those chargers. And there is no other charging company with a basis in Hawaii that does both the manufacturing and the ongoing service of their charging stations. There are other retailers that sell, you know, multiple different brands. And I'm not here to say a negative word about my competitors. I think, you know, there's plenty of room for all of us here. We need chargers out there, whether they're ever charged or someone else doing it. But I think that we are most ideally suited to the needs of this community and the challenges and the barriers that need to be overcome in order to put chargers out there. So from that perspective, I hope we're the biggest game in town, but I certainly wouldn't go that far. You know, it's interesting, you know, 10 years ago, there was a company here operated and they actually had a presence. They had brick and mortar presence and some executives here called Better Place. I know of it. Oh, do you? And they failed. They were out of, the fellow who put it together was in Israeli, but he had worked for some EU electronics firms and had a great vision. It's what's interesting to hear you talk actually, Sean, is that his vision is very similar to what you're describing, that mesh network, the electronics, the internet connection of all of these elements on a kind of charging grid. That's what he wanted to do. He unfortunately couldn't do it, one thing and another, but it sounds like you're doing what he was dreaming of living the dream. That's what you're doing. You're living his dream. I'm living some kind of dream, but you know, I will say that for any good technology, you know, you need the opportunity between, the opportunity that's created is really just the intersection between luck and preparation and market conditions. And you know, I think Better Place might just have been a little bit too early in its time. And you know, I don't think that it perfectly matched the needs of our local community. And you know, everyone probably has an opinion on that, but that's just mine. And I think, you know, if Better Place were to come back in five years and do a couple of things different, and I think it might be a solution that fits. But in the meantime, Evercharge will be here and we'll be doing the charging for as long as we can. Yeah. Evercharge a public company? No, we are a company that is out there raising funds similar to any other startup companies. It was actually founded in Silicon Valley by the CEO who is a technologist. He's, you know, a very brilliant mind who actually wrote the code himself. And you know, as any good solution founder story should be, he wanted to put an EV charger in his garage because he lived in a department building and they told him he couldn't do it because they didn't have enough capacity. So he figured out how he could. And here we are. Over 10 years later, Evercharge has, I think over 10 million miles have been driven charged by Evercharge chargers across the U.S. So needless to say, it works and very well at that. Okay, well, I really learned a lot here and I'm closer to buying an electric car now because I'm one of those guys that have range anxiety before I get up in the morning and you have given me a certain level of confidence that I didn't have before. So keep up the good work. You wanna give us one last time your website and your telephone if anybody wants to call you. Please do. If you're interested in electric vehicle charges for your community, give me a call, 808-913-1609. You can also shoot me an email at Sean at EverchargeHawaii.net. I typically come out in the next day or two after I receive your inquiry. I evaluate the property, take a look at your electrical room and look at where the stalls are. And if it comes down to designing infrastructure to get you chargers out there, that's what we do. So give me a call, present your problems and hopefully we'll find some solutions together. Thank you, Sean. Showed more of that. Evercharge really appreciated. Pleasure being with you. Thanks for having me. Same. Aloha.