 My name is Don Tao from the Coalition Peace Initiative and I'll serve as your host for tonight's program. Since some of you were not in last Wednesday's webinar, when I gave a brief overview of this educational webinar program, I would like to give you a short summary of that overview. Okay, so I'm going to start that short summary. At this time, we believe that the most important question facing the world is whether the world is moving toward war or moving toward peace. Since the United States and China are the two most powerful countries in the world, the relationship between the United States and China is key to the question whether we are moving toward war or moving toward peace. Almost every day we hear mass media reports and United States government pronouncements of all kinds of accusations against China. Unfortunately, most of these accusations are essentially false, not based on truth but on fabrications. But there are serious implications for these fabricated accusations. They increase the tension between the United States and China and result in serious consequences. First, for Chinese Americans, it creates hate crimes and fabricated SPNR charges that both have been clearly demonstrated during the past year. As far as hate crimes, it's not just on the Chinese Americans, but also more generally speaking for Asian Americans in general. For Americans in general, critical funding will be diverted for the military instead of using the funding to improve our economy, to rebuild our pumping infrastructure, to fight against climate change, to fight against the pandemic and fight against terrorism, and restore racial harmony and fight against war. For the citizens of the world, similarly, critical resources will be diverted to military and war, instead of using such resources to work on global problems like poverty, illiteracy, infant fatality, climate change, terrorism, job creation, and peace. This demonization of China must not be left unchallenged. Otherwise, you will never achieve our objective of moving the world toward peace. Today, the world has many peace-promoting organizations that are doing great work, including our co-sponsors. However, on an individual basis, these organizations are not powerful enough to move the world toward peace. Perhaps a union of these peace-promoting organizations can lead to a more powerful movement that can move the world toward peace. We are organizing a series of educational webinars to help promote, to help people to understand that such demonization in China is not based on truth. And even more importantly, such policies are not good for Chinese Americans, not good for Americans in general, and not good for the people of the world. To understand current U.S.-China relationship, we need to understand the historical relationship between U.S. and China, and the evolution of that relationship, and how the world has evolved in the past 50 years or so. To understand the historical development of U.S.-China relationship, we also need to understand how China was treated by the foreign powers, including the United States. Therefore, we need to discuss modern Chinese history, in particular starting with the 19th century. How China is treated by the United States is very much related to how Chinese Americans are treated in the United States. And therefore, we also need to discuss the experience of Chinese Americans in the United States. That's why the three main topics of this webinar series are on the following three topics. Chinese American experience in the United States, modern Chinese history, and U.S.-China relationship. We hope that these educational webinars will help the people to understand that we should not rely on war to solve our differences. But the world's two most powerful countries should be working cooperatively on a win-win approach to improve the world, rather than destroying the world for our children and our grandchildren. We hope that you will join this peace-promoting organization to help move the world toward peace. Thank you. That's the summary of my last week's overview of the whole program. Now we will start tonight's program on the topic of, let me share one slide with you, Terminal Japanese Americans, 1942 to 1945. Judge Lillian Singh will be the moderator for tonight's program. And she will say a few words about tonight's program. And then she's going to introduce our speaker, Karen Karamesu. So first I say a few words to introduce Lillian Singh. Okay. Lillian Singh is the first Asian American female judge in Northern California. She's a co-founder of Ribbon and King, Regis Coalition, Comfort Woman Justice Coalition, and Chinese for Affirmative Action. Just Singh will now say a few words about tonight's program, and then she'll introduce the speaker, Karen. So Lillian, the floor is yours. Thank you. If you want to leave this slide here, fine. If you want me to turn it off, I can turn it off. Please turn it off. Okay. Good. Okay. We have a very, very full program tonight, and we have both Dr. Karen Karamesu, and I'm really excited to share with you about what happened during the time of war when the United States was in war with Japan, and what happened to the Japanese American citizens as a result of the war. So hopefully tonight's program will give a big message that history should not be repeated, because in a time of war, no win situation. Like Don said, we want to be a win-win situation. We cannot engage in a war, especially today's hot war will be a nuclear war, and it will wipe out human civilization forever. So I hope tonight we can learn about the history of the Japanese Americans during World War II. Before I introduce our speaker, Dr. Karen Karamesu, I want to tell you I was really grateful that I personally had the opportunity to work with Fred Karamesu. In the 1990s, when we started the rape of 19 Redress Coalition, Fred was our honorary co-chair. Yes, Fred Karamesu, the Japanese American hero, stood with us against Japan. I hope you can see Fred Karamesu's name there. For some reason, it doesn't show very good, but he and Richard Blum were our honorary co-chairs. But that's a kind of a man Fred Karamesu is. At that time, he was already an international hero. He already received the Presidential Medal of Honor, which is a nation's highest civilian honor from President Carter, and he helped pass the Civil Liberties Act of 1888, which Karen will explain a lot more later on. So to me, Fred was such a quiet and humble man, and yet I felt he was made with iron and steel, and throughout his entire life, he fought for justice. And he was never afraid to speak up when he ceased injustice, done by the US government or by the Japanese government. His compass always pointed to the North, and he worked relentlessly all his life to bring truth and justice to the world. So we're really honored tonight to have his daughter, Dr. Karen Karamesu, tell us more about this legacy and about him. Now, I need to introduce Dr. Karen Karamesu, and before I tell you all about her title, I want to tell you that I'm also very fortunate to have the honor of working with Karen. She is a remarkable person, and she has inherited her father's spirit and his passion to fight for justice. In 2009, Dr. Karamesu founded and now serves as Executive Director of Fred T. Karamesu Institute. The objective of the Institute is to advance racial equity, social justice, and human rights for all. The Institute's work has expanded from K-12 civilian civil education to promoting public civil engagement and participation. Karen is a great public speaker. You will be so pleased to have the honor to hear her tonight. And in fact, she received the distinguished title of being a California Ambassador of Education in June of this year by the California Superintendent Tony Thurman. She is indeed an ambassador who has crisscrossed the country speaking to the audiences from kindergartners to judges about history, drawing upon lessons of the past, and talking about the dangers we are facing today. She connects the dots between what happened in World War II when Japanese Americans were targeted to today's events of targeting and marginalizing the Arabs after the Gulf War, the Muslims after 9-11, the Asians after the Korean and Vietnam War, and now the Chinese Americans after Obama's pivot to Asia, Trump's and Biden's nuclear war, as well as the issue related to all people of color in the Black Lives Matter. I'm proud to tell you that Karen is an epic supporter of the Comfort Women Justice Coalition as you can see on the screen. It was not easy to have the memorial built, and Karen spoke publicly in front of the Board of Supervisors in support of our memorial, even though there were Japanese American leaders who pressured her not to. But Karen knew, like her father, well, it's right, it's right, what is wrong cannot be repeated. So she stood with us, spoke on our behalf, and has always supported us. I really want to publicly acknowledge Karen's support and thank her very much. I feel we can have a full webinar on Karen alone. I mean, she deserves a lot of accolades on Karen Karamazoo herself. But tonight, we're here to talk about her great father, Fred Karamazoo, his legacy, and what we can learn from his legacy as we battle with our current issues against racism, sexism, and the new cold walls. So Karen, let me start by asking you some questions about Fred Karamazoo. Can you tell us something about his personal life? What was his childhood like? What was his family background? Well, my father was, well, thank you, Lilian, for those kind words, first of all, and also thank you, Don, and the Coalition for hosting this webinar, because this is certainly a very urgent discussion that we need to have as we have all this tension looming across this country between China and the United States. And if my father were here, he'd be one of the first to speak up to say that, no, we can't do that. And that we need to find common ground and to work together and to respect each other. So my father was born in Oakland, California for some of those who don't know. So he was an American citizen. And he grew up just like any other American kid and hung out with his friends. But he did face discrimination when he was growing up. And he couldn't get a haircut in San Leandro in a kind of a white barbershop and wasn't being served in a restaurant at a diner. And so those types of experiences, you internalize. And so it just didn't kind of happen overnight that he decided to disobey the military orders. And so when with the bombing of Pearl Harbor, my father thought he was worried about his parents because they were immigrants from Japan. They came over the late 1800s, early 1900s. And so but he was an American citizen. He learned about the Constitution in high school. He thought he was going to be okay. But obviously not because with the executive order 9066 being issued on February 19, 1942, he just couldn't believe it. And of course, the Japanese American community and whole were just traumatized. And it's terrible to think of you being stripped from your possessions and to be forced to be sent to prison camps. And you don't even know when you're coming back. All due process of law was denied because of quote military necessity. No one ever had their day in court, was charged with a crime, even had access to an attorney. And so the racism that ran rapid across this country, you know, about the Yale apparel and the Japanese are dangerous people, as you can see by this poster of the propaganda of this Japanese man holding a knife to this Caucasian woman, that they're not wanted. And that was a clear message. And it's been repeated. This is a problem. This has been repeated over history with African Americans, obviously with Black Lives Matter, even with the Chinese back to the Chinese Exclusion Act was another racist moment. And even before that, with the Page Act of 1875, that all these times in our history when we have had racism and discrimination is not anything new. But the problem is, is we haven't learned from the lessons of history. And that's why we keep repeating the same mistakes. So, you know, as I said, the Constitution was, was as a document that we always want to uphold and protect. But it, it just, you know, it was denying American citizens their rights. And the fourth and 14th Amendment were certainly a part of that. So then we come to the Supreme Court. And with my father being disobeying the orders and the military orders, and he was arrested. And his case went all the way to the Supreme Court. Please tell us about what happened to the United States, the Supreme Court versus Karamaz. It was a very shameful case. It was one of the worst cases that we can ever expect. And it was just very bad. And Justice Robert Jackson said, the court for all time has validated the principle of racial discrimination. It was really ashamed. It was a, it was actually a 5-4 decision. And with some of the biggest liberal justices like Justice Douglas, Justice Holland, all supporting this kind of this, this rule about the necessity of the military and the necessity of executive order. So Karen, I don't know what happened with the background noise, but please go ahead. You know, actually, I want to just say that the ACLU, you know, the attorneys who went to visit your father in prison, his name is Mr. Bassick. He was not supported by the national ACLU. And that is another very shameful chapter in ACLU's own history that I don't want to stray too far away. But the northern chapter of ACLU, which Mr. Bassick supported this, and that's how ACLU became involved. Yes. I mean, Mr. Bassick visited my father in San Francisco jail. Right. And asked my father if he'd be willing to be a test case, because Mr. Bassick thought it was unconstitutional. But Mr. Bassick said, if need be, we'll take it all to the way to the Supreme Court. And my father hung on to that, even in the face of adversity, because when he was arrested, he was, and had his bail hearing was sent to Topaz, not Topaz, sorry, to Tanferan, which was the detention assembly center, the holding prison, before they were sent to one of the 10 permanent incarceration camps. And my father and his parents went to Topaz, Utah. And all during those, you know, because of the way our appeals process takes place, it wasn't until December 19, 1944, when the Supreme Court made their decision. And as Lillian said, it was not unanimous. It was a six to three decision. And Justice Jackson was one of the dissenting justices. And these are the most really studied today, these dissenting opinions, and important to remember. But certainly, my father was totally disgusted that the Supreme Court didn't see and didn't recognize that the Japanese-American incarceration was unconstitutional. But you know, Karen, your father knew it was a really hard case. And he knew it would be difficult. And yet, he was willing to stand up again and face adversity and criticism and be the lead plaintiff and the lead case in all this struggle for justice. I really admire your father as a woman in the area of law and justice. He stood up so much. And I would want people to know that he was never bitter or angry. For all those who knew him and met him like Judge Singh, he was a very quiet, humble, kind, and generous person. But he had this deep conviction of what was right and what was wrong. And when Professor Peter Irons, who is the gentleman in this picture, as you see to my father's left with the beard, found the evidence along with another researcher, Hershey Kyoshinaga in Washington, D.C., that proved that there was no military necessity for the Japanese and Japanese-Americans to be incarcerated. My father took that risk again of reopening up his Supreme Court case because there he still did not have the support of his own community. At that time was the redress and reparations movement for the Japanese-Americans. And they said to my father, Fred, if you reopen your case, you may lose our chance for redress and reparations. But my father believed that what the government did in 1942 was so wrong that he just took that risk, that it didn't matter whatever anyone said to him. He never gave up that hope. And I didn't know that until his case was reopened in 1983, he never gave up hope that someday he would prove that this was wrong. And that's the burning, driven aspect of my father that stayed with him the rest of his life. His compass always pointed north. He never strayed. It was just amazing. Now, Karen, this particular case that Marilyn Patel decided was Fred Caramazzo's writ of Caramnovas, which voided his conviction just for the audience. Let me just pause by explaining the writ of Caramnovas. It's like a writ of error asking the court to set aside the conviction because new facts, new evidence has become available to the court. And the previous conviction is wrong. It was a landmark decision because in granting the writ, Judge Patel was really saying President Roosevelt's executive order 9066 ordering Japanese-Americans into internment camp was wrong. The Supreme Court couldn't say that. Marilyn Patel in the district court in the writ of Caramnovas said that. And therefore, she basically said the Japanese-Americans did not post a threat to the United States and should not have been sent to incarcerated in camp. Now, this is what I really worry about if we ever have a war with China today. That without due process, we would be arrested, sent somewhere, and also searched and seized for our properties and our lives would be different. So, Karen, please proceed with what happened. How did your father feel about this case? Well, I mean, certainly it was that day in court on November 10th, 1983, it was like this weight that lifted off his shoulders. But also for the Japanese-American community who just flooded the courtrooms, the courtroom in San Francisco and outer courtrooms, because this was like the day in court they never had. And that's the way my father led his life. He didn't do these things just for himself. He did this for his Japanese-American community and all Americans, because he was always afraid that something like the Japanese-American incarceration could happen again. We've come very, very close. I mean, even that's why he spoke up after 9-11 in 2001 when the danger was the Attorney General was citing my father's case as a possible reason to put Arab and Muslim Americans in American concentration camps again. So this is why his fight for justice is so important for young people to know as well, because we want them to know that one person can make the difference in a face of adversity. And because my father's case was overturned in federal court, it set the precedent for the the Civil Liberties Act of 1988 signed by President Reagan. And as I said, it wasn't about just the money. It was about the apology, about the dignity and the feeling that Japanese-Americans were American citizens, because two-thirds of 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry that were forcibly removed were American citizens, two-thirds, and a third were under the age of 18. So this is, but my father didn't stop there. He, as I said, crisscrossed this country, as Jud Singh said and as well, that he spoke to anyone and everyone who would listen and to remind them of these dangers that could even happen today. So that's why I think this is why he supported the rape of Nanjing Redress Coalition, Comfort Women Justice Coalition, because we were asking for apology and reparation. And I think he really understood why apology is so important, even reparation in the amount of, what is 20,000 per person compared to the suffering and the loss Japanese-Americans suffered during the war. And yet, it was a reparation that the government of the United States made, and that was very powerful. He understood the importance of that. And I really am grateful for him to speak up before us in front of the Board of Supervisors, in front of different audiences about the importance of that, with the struggles that we had in China vis-à-vis the Japanese government. And that's why we need to even address today the redress and reparations for all those who have been marginalized, especially for black Americans and their struggle with, and to get HR 40 passed so we can at least start hearings for their redress and reparations. If we're ever going to reach racial equity in this country, we need to heal. And the way that we can do that is through the redress and reparations that we owe all communities. And America can't just talk about it and it just can't be just plain rhetoric. We have to take action. And it wasn't, as I said, the money is not what the Japanese Americans were after, but unless you throw money at these apologies, then people don't take them seriously. And that's unfortunate, but that's the democratic way. And we have to acknowledge that that's the type of country and democracy that we live in, and that we do have the opportunity to write wrongs as my father worked his entire life to do so. On January 30th, 2017, everyone woke up. I got calls from the East Coast as far as like three o'clock in the morning because it was six o'clock when people were seeing this. And of course, it's a Google Doodle. And Google in their commitment for social justice created this because of the first executive order that the previous president made. We called the Muslim ban. And that was the start of it. It wasn't only racial discrimination, it was religious discrimination. And it was on the basis of national security. Japanese Americans in 42 is about military necessity. Now it's the same thing, but we call it something else. We rename these things thinking that we can kind of soft pedal the impact. And that's what we need to be aware of because words matter and how we use them matters. And so this is what this represented as far as my father, I wish he could have seen it. And what I will say is that what I was told by everyone was that even though my father received the Presidential Medal of Freedom, when you have a Google Doodle, you've made it. That's very telling, especially for the younger generation. But speaking of the Muslim ban, and then of course, they tried to, they got put, the last administration had pushback. So then they called it the immigration ban. And of course, there was pushback there. So then they decided to call it travel ban, and they included Venezuela, big deal. I mean, this is what we need to be aware of. And so as a result, the Attorney General of Hawaii created this lawsuit against the President, Trump versus Hawaii, in 2018. And of course, all of us were speaking out about that. And this is what we need to also have this discussion about what do executive orders mean? And how far can they go? Because this was the danger. These executive orders actually go back to the time of President Washington, who used them as military directives. Then all of a sudden, they became a negative issue as in Executive Order 9066, when President Roosevelt issued that. And then we had the Muslim ban. So we all fought against this. I submitted my name in amicus brief to actually warn the court of the dangers of overreaching of power. And also that to remind them of my father's Supreme Court case, and the lessons that need to be learned there. However, unfortunately, the majority opinion was to support the President. And Chief Justice Roberts wrote the majority opinion. So do you think Fred Karamaz's case was overruled by Chief Justice Roberts in this United States versus Hawaii? An excellent question. Because two days later, I had written a or next day later, I'd written an op-ed not fully recognizing or even understanding the impact of all that. We thought that it was overruled. Well, the constitutional scholars said no. That the opinion of Chief Justice Roberts was he was referring to Karamaz versus the United States. He said it's overruled in the court of history. That was an opinion. And in legal terms, it's called dicta. And therefore, the precedent of Karamaz versus United States still looms. It can be used in another case, depending upon what the what the situation is, because it's clearly a violation of civil rights and civil liberties that we're dealing with. You know, during this pandemic, United States versus Hawaii, it was rude. It was used to support the government again. What happened in Wisconsin when the judge tried to when the governor tried to use the Karamaz case to support the ban on masking, right? Can you explain that? What happened in Wisconsin? How dare they use the victory of Karamaz as a shield to not using masks? It's outrageous. Can you comment on that? Yes. And it was, it was, you know, the stay at home order, the shelter in place order as well, that the Wisconsin's one of the Wisconsin State Supreme Court justices cited Karamaz versus United States because she said that, you know, there wasn't time to to do all this testing and all this research. And it was clearly, you know, the incarceration was or in term, as she said, was a violation of civil rights, which it was. But what she did not learn in law school, I presume, is that the Japanese American incarceration people, you know, were forced from their homes, forced from the comfort of their own homes, a loss of possessions and set into prison camps to live in inhumane conditions for three or four years. So that is not the same as staying in your home to protect your own health, your family's health, your, your community's health in this country's health. So it but here again, that's how Karamaz versus United States has been misused. And other states and legislators misused it as well. So it's it's not it wasn't a violation to have people stay at home for their own health. And it's not a violation for people to have to wear a mask. That's not a violation of civil rights. That's for for that's that's for that's social protection. And and we all need to recognize it and not, you know, and not use it in in the manner in a purpose that is and not in keeping. So this is these are the dangers that we always have to look at and also the social media. 70% of the misinformation in this country is retweeted or reused. And we all need to be accountable for that. I'm so glad you mentioned about the media because the media has been very anti China in this US-China relationship. And like you said, they don't do the real research, they just reuse and they just copy one another. So you're absolutely right. The media is not an ally sometimes, when we are in a struggling for justice. Right. And yes. So go ahead. You want to talk about what you are what the institute that you have now that you started, you've done such a good job with the Fred Karamazzo Institute and you would like to spend a little time telling us about the Institute. Yes, well, we have we we've been doing education since 2009. But we also have taken on other advocacy roles. And the stop Asian hate is certainly a part of that. And we know I have learned over the years that really our most powerful tool is education. And that we need to be sure that, you know, children and students and even adults I'm learning need to know our history and need to know the truthful history because it certainly has been misused and repurposed. This the one we don't have a lot of time to talk about the model minority myth. Because for Asian Americans, that's something that's that's been part of our history. And just so you know, that in 1966, it was a UC professor of sociology that coined the word model minority. But they based it on the Japanese American internment. It was to say, Oh, the Japanese Americans did so well, they assimilated after being incarcerated all those years. Well, that's not the entire entire story. There was a lot of suffering, a lot of misplacement and issues that they had to struggle with, and still the the racism that they had to endure. So then it was repurposed because of of what was happening to Asian Americans and the in schools and students and having that type of advantage, you know, was like, Oh, all all all Asian Americans are very smart, you know, they are the Chinese Americans are very smart. And then they would pin, you know, the Chinese or Japanese against the black Americans, the students, the black students. So this is the way that this has all been used over time. And that and that's why we're also working on ethnic studies, because we need students need to learn about the different ethnicities, and and how and the struggle of immigration that everyone has had to endure over time. And also now we're doing through the Asian and Pacific Islander American Health Forum and the CDC a grant to for vaccinations. So we want to encourage teachers and educators, students and parents to get vaccinated so that we don't have to be back in this situation of children being so disoriented and lost, because they don't have the Wi Fi, they're not in schools, the interaction of of of education is so important. And this is a national, you know, we're a national organization and national effort. And so actually for this, Fred Cormac today, in 2022, our theme is stand up for what is right, get vaccinated. So we hope people will come to the Coromatsu Institute.org. And we have curriculum for for teachers and educators and even parents because of the COVID asked us for help. So they can access our our resources as well. And and just to follow up with us and and help in and in trying to spread the word, especially about vaccinations have that and also to get your flu inoculation because this is going to be a big problem in the fall as we get in more into the winter months that the the flu and and the COVID vaccination are going to be hand in hand big problems. And you can get them at the same time. So don't let people tell you you can't. So come to us if you want accurate information. And and if my my father were here, he would say to all of you, stand up for what is right, and don't be afraid to speak up. Thank you. Lillian. Lillian, excuse me. You asked me to alert you at a 10 minute mark. So I'm alerting you now. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Don. Apparently, we don't have that much time left. But tell us more about the Fred Caramazzo Day that is of civil liberties and the Constitution. Is it a national holiday or a state holiday? How can we support it to become like the Martin Luther King Day and really for the whole country and the world to recognize Fred Caramazzo and what he has done. Well, thanks, Justin, for asking that question. Because it was actually the first one was in California. The legislative bill was signed by Governor Schwarzenegger. So the first one was in 2011 on January 30th. And the point being it's not just, you know, it's about our civil liberties and the Constitution. This is what we need to keep fighting for what my father kept fighting for and what we need to uphold, right, as all Americans in this country. And to support those are the citizens and non citizens. And we haven't recognized in the state of Hawaii, the New York City, the state of Florida. And recently, Arizona, believe it or not, Governor Ducey signed the legislative bill a couple of months ago. And it's not a holiday yet. But it's a day of opportunity for civics, for civic participation to be part of our community. So civic community participation and, you know, and education. The governor of each state declares it Fred Cormac today and the superintendent of public instruction, whoever is head of the Department of Education, encourages teachers to teach about my father's fight for justice. And which is so relevant today. I mean, who would have known. So we hope to have it a national holiday. We need to have other states under our belt. And it's a process. I mean, we know that Congress is in a bit of a mess right now. But we can, you know, have our state legislators are the ones that need to create the bills and and to introduce their bills to get them passed so that the governors can sign them. Now, New Jersey is pretty close. It's, I think they're going to sign it coming for this coming year for 2022. Several of the cities have already recognized it and and actually a meeting with the state legislators in Michigan in January to about education, you know, this just to to remind them that this is what it's what's about. So our our goal is is to to to be sure that we keep, you know, participating if we're going to make a difference in our country. We have to all take that role if we're going to make the difference. Okay, Karen, I think our time is sort of up. We're going to open up a question and answer period. I think we have about eight minutes left. One of the questions that came in is regarding separation of families at the border. You know, the Japanese-American families were separated and it created a great deal of hardship for children especially. Can you comment on why is history being repeated again? Why is the U.S. government using the same techniques that they used during World War II in separating families, receiving properties without due process, and just would like just can you comment on that please? Can everyone still see my slides, my screen, Don? Yes, yes. Okay, so this is a slide we kind of didn't really talk about. But this is exactly what you're you're talking about, just seeing is that this represents, you know, the day after Pearl Harbor in 1941, so December 8th. The government, you know, had already, I mean, this is talk about, you know, the government having, you know, they're overseeing what's going on in the communities, right? And so they picked up over 2,000 Japanese leaders, but they were teachers, they were Buddhist priests, and they were taken from their homes. And then the families didn't even know what happened to them for years in many cases. So the families were disrupted and they were torn apart then. So as you see with our immigration issues, especially in the last administration, the same thing happened. And they're using the same some of the same incarceration camps down in Crystal City. We've had some protests down there to draw attention to the fact that the government is doing the same. It's, it's, you know, it's you ask why? It's because we just haven't learned the lessons of history, because we don't have those policies in place. We need the advocacy and we need the policies so that we can make change. That's how, you know, that's how we stop all that. And it's about also making sure that we have the elected officials in place that represent us, that will truly represent our policies and our goals in this country. So if that's why voting is important, that's why supporting elected officials to make sure that the right people are in place. And it's all, it doesn't happen overnight, but there's been such a lack of participation in civic participation over this kind of time that that's why we've ended up in the same place. Thank you. Let me see if there are any other questions coming in. There was a question from James Hsu said, didn't the United States hit from the court evidence that showed there was no threat from Japanese Americans to the United States during World War II? In other words, did the United States affirmatively hide evidence from the court in the Supreme Court case that rendered the court's rendered executive order to be valid? When Marilyn Patel's threat of crime novels, it was like it was a new discovery. But wasn't that already available to the government during the war and yet executive order was signed? Can you comment on that? Yes. So at the, at the, at the time of my father's Supreme Court hearing in 1944, the government had altered evidence or I should say the Department of Justice had altered evidence, destroyed evidence and withheld evidence. So that's what they found in the records in 1982 when they wanted to add that that was the basis they were able to use to reopen my father's Supreme Court case along with two other two others going here by Ashi and Menya Sui. So on, on that, on that basis, because they had already served their time that they were able to reopen the cases based on that information. So this is, this is important. I mean, that's a very important point because we don't know down the road, especially with the last administration, what type of what information has been withheld, what has been destroyed, what has been altered. And, and that's why we all need to be sure that this information is, is accountable and that, that there is some type of transparency in, in this process because this is how we, how we end up in these situations. Well, someone else said the government has lied, basically, to the Japanese American community and to the world. Actually, I'm saying that is my comment. The government actually lied and covered up and submitted, subjected to the Japanese American community incarceration unnecessarily and it's still happening today. So the question here is, how much can we trust our government? That's an excellent question. And that's, that's why we need to make them accountable. We need to keep this boat of accountability, of facts. And we can't just assume that they're going to give us, you know, I mean, they could say, oh, well, this is the evidence. Well, you know, we always need to question that. I think, yeah, I think you're absolutely correct. Always question the government, especially, especially today was so much misinformation is being spread about China. The government, this is why I think this kind of a webinar is so important to bring about how we, how people with knowledge is saying that it's different from the government's propaganda as to what is happening. So in during World War II, the propaganda was just terrible to what Japanese Americans and Japanese Americans suffered so much. And today, history is repeating again with Chinese Americans in terms of the new Cold War. Do you want to comment before we conclude about the new Cold War? Well, that's, that's what I'm afraid of. And, and certainly my, my father, I know he would feel the same because especially with, with, with the, with this anti-Asian hate and the blame of COVID on, on, on China, it, it, it, what it does is it's really ricocheting back to this country, right? So then all Asian Americans, you know, are assumed kind of, it's a guilty and it's their fault, right? It's no different like when I learned about my father's Supreme Court case in, in, in elementary, in high school and, or elementary school, I should say, and then they, the kids blamed me for the bombing of Pearl Harbor, right? It was my fault. Go back to where you, you came from. I mean, that was kind of treatment I received even in elementary school. So this is, and then the kids after, you know, after 9-11, in 2001, a lot of the, the AMEMSA community and the Muslim kids were also afraid even to go to school because they were blamed for the Twin Tower bombings and attack on this country, Pentagon. And it, it's, so it, it's the lack of education that keeps, you know, generating and, and percolating this type of, of treatment. So we need to be, we need to make people accountable. And also, like I said, they're words, words matter. And we, and when someone is, is saying something against someone else and it's derogatory and mean and racist, then we say in discriminating, we say no, no, you can't say that. No, you can't do that. That's what your father would say. No, to racism. No, to hate. And we must all stand up against these terrible things. You know, this is not a safe world today. And the United States is not a safe place for Asian Americans, for Muslim Americans. I just read this morning in a chronicle, 68% of Muslims say they face biases. I think I can say at least that with Chinese Americans and Japanese Americans. What kind of country do we have? What kind of country are we living in? This is supposed to be great America. And yet I can tell you my relatives in China, I have a sister, I have cousins, I have, I don't have an auntie anymore, she died. They live in China, they feel very safe in China. And whereas we are feeling threatened every day, anti-Asian violence, hate ensues on the rise, the government's blaming us as Chinese scientists, but as being spies. And that's another subject that I think we can go on and on and on. But I think we need to conclude after six o'clock. Don, how are we doing? Well, if you have any more questions, you can ask Karen one more question. Okay. Let me read. The perpetual foreigner, enemy, alien, the scapegoat for US social and political conditions is what you were saying exactly, Dr. Karen Karabatsu. Do you wish to comment on that any further? Well, that is, that's how a lot of us are viewed as Asian Americans. I mean, we're the perpetual foreigner. And that's why, you know, we, I've learned and now I'm determined to teach and have ethnic studies as a course in all schools across this country. Because this is the misinformation, right? The misinformation. And also just the perception that's wrong. Most of us, we were born here in America. We, even when I was growing up, someone would say over the phone, they would say, well, how do you spell Korematsu? And I say, you know, it's spelled it and they said, well, what kind of name is that? And I said, well, it's Japanese. Oh, well, you don't sound Japanese. Now, what is that supposed to mean? This is, this is kind of the attitude that people have now. And just the misinformation and just being presumptuous that we are all foreigners that we don't belong here. We belong here just as much as anyone else does. And that's why we need all to be present and to work to make change. It's not going to happen overnight. We can't give up hope like my father said, and actually demonstrated he never gave up hope. And neither can us. It's one day at a time, one person at a time, but we cannot give up. And I'm also worried about the Afghans that now are coming to this country. And especially in the Bay Area, because we have, there's a big population in Fremont, California. And I'm worried about how those kids are going to be treated. So we all need to participate and and make people accountable for their words and not only and also their actions. So we have to work together and respect you. I want to thank you so much for giving us such a wonderful presentation, something that you speak from your heart and imparting so much wisdom to us. As I said in the beginning of this program, we need to do a webinar on Dr. Karen Caramazo herself. You've done so much and you are our ambassador in educating all these issues to not only kindergartners, to judges and everybody else, we've learned so much from you in today's webinar. I hope we hear from you again and maybe one day I will sponsor a webinar just on Karen Caramazo's work and her passion in her fight with social justice. Thank you everybody for watching. Thank you so much, Karen. Thank you. Okay, so so Karen and Lillian, if you can stop screen sharing, let me get the screen back. Okay, thank you very much Karen and Lillian for an extremely meaningful and inspiration reminder of what Karen's father did more than 17 years ago and also what the Japanese Americans experienced during that period. We hope that we learn a lesson from that part of history and we will not repeat that part of history again. Okay, now I would like to just spend a minute to talk about the next set of programs. So if I will share a screen. Okay, can you see my screen the next slide? You have to go to the next one. Yes, I know. Okay, next week October 6th, we have the third webinar. You'll be on Chinese American experience in the United States. This time it's the 20th and 21st centuries and Lillian will be the moderator for that webinar also and the speakers will be Lin Xi Wang and also Russell Zhang. And then October 13 and October 20, we have two webinars on modern Chinese history in the 19th century and in the 20th century by Professor Ken Hammond. And then October 27, we have a webinar, Julie Tang will talk about Hong Kong and I will talk about Xinjiang. And then November 3rd and November 10, we have two similar webinars on US-China relationship by George Koo. The first one is on the 19th century and the second one is about the 20th and 21st centuries including the US, the China policies of our last three presidents. And then our last webinar, not the least webinar is on November 17 by Sheila Xiao who will speak on China is not US enemy. So I hope you all come back to join us. Before I leave, I just want to mention that last week there's a replay of last week's webinar in YouTube and I think Madison, you have posted in the chat, right? I hope. And we actually sent out an email announcement of the links to all the people who were registered. So they were close to about 200 people on our registration list. So before the next one, you'll also receive the announcement about the replay of today's webinar. So you should expect to receive that announcement sometime early next week. So besides the video replay in YouTube, we also have two audio podcasts on last week's webinar. Okay, thanks again. I want to thank again for Karen and Lillian. And I thank everybody for attending. And I hope to see you next week. Bye. Bye. Bye.