 My name is Amy Ehrlich, and I'm on the Oli Program Committee. Today is the second presentation in our fall series, which started with a bang last week when they had the rapid review book session. And it promises to keep being stimulating and formative and especially entertaining. Next week, for example, Ralph Diamond will be talking about the real true story of the origin of our national park system, which isn't what you might have believed at all. Okay. But today we have members of SIRGE, three members of SIRGE, one will be appearing soon. And SIRGE stands for Showing Up for Racial Justice. It's a nationwide organization that moves people into action as part of a multi-racial movement using community organization advocacy and education. The SIRGE members will both explain and demonstrate what they do and what you can do too. So there's going to be interaction here, not just sitting and listening. So a little bit about the presenters. Next to me is Penny Patch. And Penny went to work in the Black Freedom Movement in 1962 when she was 18 years old. She was an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, more commonly known as SNCC. And she worked on desegregation and voter registration. And she actually registered house-to-house people to vote who had never voted in their lives in Georgia and Mississippi. In that process, she really, it was scary, she was arrested several times and jailed even. Penny has continued to work toward racial justice since she moved to Vermont in 1960. 1970. Okay. Sorry. Next to Penny on the left is Allie Johnson-Curse. She's a facilitator organizer and a rebel from the Winooski River watershed in central Vermont. She currently works as the communications director for Change the Story, Vermont. It's a gender equity initiative to advance women's economic security statewide. In addition to volunteering as a member of SURGE, Allie serves on the Steering Committee for the Vermont Freedom Bail Fund of Fond de Parleau Lembertide, Vermont. This is an organization that raises bail funds to help free immigrants that are held in detention. So that's, oh my goodness, and wait, Sandra Batchelder who's next to me. Sandra's a grandmother, a gardener, a retired middle school teacher and an activist. In 2015, she saw a presidential campaign where salt, racist taunts and mockery were applauded. She was frightened and then determined that the central Vermont community she loves would resist and that she would be part of this resistance. So we have three really wonderful, prudent defenders with an awful lot to offer. After they speak, of course, they can take your questions. Thanks again. Thank you for having us. So I'll give you all an overview of showing up for racial justice. And also, you can understand the work that we do and know that you are invited into it in an ongoing way. So showing up for racial justice, Central Vermont, is working with a variety of different organizations, cross-racially, to dismantle whites advocacy here and nationwide. Search is a national network with chapters all over the country who hold different credibility relationships with organizations that are USC-led, which Penny will talk about in a moment. So that you have a sense of what our work is, we directly support the work of organizations like Migrant Justice, Justice for All, the Ethnic Studies Coalition, which is working to get greater ethnic studies into schools, state-line, Black Lives Matter, Greater Burlington, and others who are doing racial justice here in our area. So we directly support their work by showing up to their heads, sometimes providing childcare or food, turning out our folks for those events, fundraising for them, and we may pass around, I'm not sure if we'll do this, but we may pass around the hat to share funds back to these organizations, which we often do at many events. And in our events, we take a wide range of actions. So we have practice sessions, which, we're going to walk you through a little mini-practice session, but we hold those on an ongoing basis, and this summer we did a series at the IE Fourth View Church. We're going to be holding more of those at the preview as well, which you're all invited to, and those are a longer form of training for you to come and learn about how to speak up when you see your year-resistance. And I would say that we probably trained at this point hundreds of Central Vermont community members. Folks keep coming back, because they're slightly different every time, and there's more to learn. We also do really well in conversations, because we believe that taking these conversations directly into folks' homes, where they can bring their neighbors, and other folks who might not come out to the event that they would come to their friend's neighbor's house to learn, is a critical way that we can increase our impact. So we hold liberal conversations with folks who wanted to post those for a few years now, and if you're interested in having a conversation, we can help support you to do that in your home. And they have a number of different day-to-day, they have a number of different focuses. So we look at the Black Lives Matter calls and platform, and you have a conversation about that, some presentation of this particular reality, we talk about free speech, there's speech, there's six different modules of content that we can do for those very own conversations. And I just pass it on to Penny, we're also talking about the accountability relationships we are showing out to the events that we have with different TLCD people, other than organizations in the community. So we're, surface mission and ours is to, as white people, work within white communities to raise consciousness about racism. Another part of our mission, as we do this, is to take guidance and information, but really guidance about what is being asked of us from organizations that are led by people of color. If you're in a different part of the country, you will find organizations that are led by people of color, but inhabited completely by people of color. Vermont, it's more often than bitter, the leadership is of color. So in order to take guidance from people of color, we work on developing relationships of trust between people. It can be a complex process sometimes, given the racism that exists in our world. And of course one thing is, you know, I'm referring to people of color, but there are many kinds of people of color and many opinions about what should be done. So it's not like there's one, one group says do this, and there's another group that says maybe do that. Amy said in my bio between the ages of 18 and 22, back in the ages of in the time of the Civil Rights Movement, I worked for SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, and this was a group, all the entire leadership was always black. Most of our people in our organization were black and then there were always a very small number of white people who were a part of that. And it happened in my life that I got there at the right moment and participated in this. And so I had the experience of working with brilliant, under brilliant black leadership, which I have found to be one of the great gifts of my life. And it's not something that is given or offered to all white people to experience, so I'm always grateful for that. I'm going to say a little more about the different organizations we support in this state. One is definitely micro justice. I don't know, I guess it's any number of you in this room are aware of all issues around immigration that are going on in the country now and in Vermont, and some of you are participating in mitigating and making change in that situation. So micro justice is a dynamic, 10-year-old group whose mission actually was to support and protect undocumented farm workers working on our Vermont dairy farms. Over time, they still do that, but they have also evolved into being an organization that's constantly advocating for farm workers that are being swept up by the Customs and Border Patrol, and that's happening practically every week in this state now. One a week. One a week, yes. And sometimes there's been a particular focus on picking off leadership in minor justice also. So we help publicize circulate petitions right to our Congress people, help with the whole issue public. We also contribute money to minor justice. We participate in demonstrations. We have a list of about 250 people who we can then notify that there's a demonstration in front of the ice office building at some and so, you know, at such a time, such as at today, and then we don't get people there. We make phone calls. We also have collaborated together on film shootings, almost a year in my period, and prejudice, well, okay. And one of the things that's going on in Vermont also right now is the Customs and Border Patrol are setting up. And apparently, and this was on in the news media, and I'm on public radio in the last couple of days, that there have been four or five checkpoints set up. And, you know, most of them seem to be up around North Hero, but to check people's distance. And we do, we collaborate with minor justice and help them to do trainings for how to, if we're traveling with undocumented people, how to respond, what people's rights are, what our rights are, and different ways of responding rather rapidly to these ever-evolving situations. And then lastly, there's something called the, which is connected to minor justice's work, is something about the fair and impartial policing policy effort in this, in my period right now. And at least I'm going to talk a little more about that later and introduce you to them. There's another organization called Justice for All, which primarily does work involving the criminal justice system in Vermont and law enforcement. And we support them as part of a coalition of people and organizations. And we also, some of us have testified that there's hearings. We show up for events. We support every way we can. Last thing in the sale word about the Ethnic Studies Coalition, that just this year succeeded in passing a bill through the Vermont State Legislature that funded, that goes forward on this project of doing kind of two things in all Vermont public schools, K through 12. One is in something that they've been trying to do for, people have been trying to do for decades, which is decrease the bias against students of color. And I'm going to add that this bill encompasses LGBTQ young people, also people with disabilities. So this is not only about color, it's about people who are marginalized and struggle. And they struggle and the kids struggle in our school systems. And the various efforts to educate teachers and administrators have not been enough. So that's, there's an effort there going forward as well as to put into the curriculum more of the accurate history of our country. And more, all the different ethnicities, the difficult history, all of these things that most of us, you and me, were not taught in school. And there are other organizations, there will be, Bob's got a whole bunch of handouts there. So you know, as we, there's a whole list of people of color led organizations in the state with a little bit of information about them, how to contact with them, if you're interested. And there are other handouts. So we wanted you to not just hear about the work that Serge is doing and others are doing, but also feel some of the way that we try to operate and feel that in your body. And I think part of what makes Serge so special is the way that we operate. That when we come together, if we do once every two weeks, at least a month earlier, at one of our members' farms, we take the time to do a deep check in and a deep check out from our meeting. We share food for half an hour, an hour, we have a potluck, and then we need for two hours. And we do that three hour extended meeting on Saturday because we believe that the relationships that are built through that are deeply important and that that is what will sustain our ability to continue to do our work together and not get burnt out and tired and give up and leave. But that showing up, listening to one another and hearing what's on our hearts is deeply important to that. So I wanted to bring some of that into the room right now and ask you to turn into your neighbor in just a moment and share about the first time that you recognize that you're part of a racialized group, that maybe you recognize that you're white, that that was in that separation in some way. Before we get started, so I can give you each two minutes and then we'll do a switch. But just before we get started, just think for a moment and you know go back to that moment and think to yourself about like what was that moment or what was one of those moments and how did that feel for you? Like what came up in your in your mind and your body? Like what did that moment feel like and then share that with your partner? And as you're listening really try to tune into this other person and provide empathy to them. What you know, feel what, try to feel what they were feeling and try to deeply understand what they were coming for. The folks who are just talking, let's wrap it up. And as the second person is talking, really take the time to get into what they're thinking and feeling and what came up for them. Give them the same empathy that they just feel. I want to add something about what Alex said about a couple of things about our central Vermont search group. One is the obvious, which is that we're intergenerational, which is I think something that most of us find really positive for all of us too. But we range in age, I mean here we have 25, 75, and but we have all in between too. Starting off presentations, we notice that actually the land that we're sitting on and the land that we are, we have made our lives was originally indigenous land. Now we're going to, we're going to do a little very short version of what you might experience if you came to practice session called, and we run them at a union church, they'll be going once a month this winter, and then it's called speaking up for racial justice. And we're going to do a little exercise which gives you a taste of what you'll be doing there. So the way this all works, we're going to get into groups of three, and I'm going to actually ask you to turn your chairs for one another so that in your little group of three you can all very easily make eye contact and your bodies are facing one another. And you can hold to do that for just a sec. So in that group of three, you're each going to have a role, and those three roles are, let's wait to do this until I'm done talking, but those three roles are a repeater, a responder, and an observer. Have you done this before? No, you haven't yet. So to remember those roles, we're actually going to hand out possible steps once we get into your groups of three that have your role on it, so you'll have that in your hands. And what this is we're going to be responding in this little group of three to a biased statement that someone might hear out in the world. And this biased statement that we chose that you all will be speaking about, I can read it right now. If you're walking down the street and see a young man, you'll go back to Africa from a passing car, directed at a preteen child with brown skin. Half an hour later, you see the man at the grocery store. It has actually happened to one of our search... Yeah, so this, you know, this is not far out there. It's happened right here in our community, and it might be a situation that you would find yourself in, where you see that happen, and then you see this person, you're at Chas, or whenever in the parking lot, and you run into this person. So think really deeply about what can we do in that moment, and we're going to try to, through the practice, the deeper practice sessions, we really try to give you tools to be able to have confidence in approaching that person and your ability to seek out that. And in here, we're going to walk you through it in kind of a light version. So the repeater is going to repeat the bias statement, and the responder is going to use some tools that Penny's going to tell us about to formulate a response towards the person who said this to your team. And then the observer is going to remain silent, but notice what's happening. And we're going to give you probably three minutes to do that interaction, have the person say the bias statement, have the responder respond, have the observer observe, and then we're going to switch roles. So you'll have to go into each of the three roles throughout this exercise. So we'll do three minutes in each role. We're going to use the same bias statement for each time. So I guess Penny is probably giving us some tools to be able to respond first, and then we'll move our chairs and get into it. So the question is, how do you interrupt what's going on? How do you also keep yourself safe, relatively speaking? And how do you have the most impact? So in this situation, you're actually, you saw the situation happen, but there was absolutely no opportunity to do anything right then. So you couldn't interrupt it, because the guy just drove on past. So the question is, what are you going to say when you see him in a grocery store? And in different ways, there are different ways of doing that. You might want to ask him a question, say, I saw this happen. What was that for you? Why did you engage in that kind of activity? I don't know. Ask the question. That's in our, in sort of the common language of today, it's called calling in. Not immediately going after something, somebody for what they're doing, but bringing them in, trying to bring them in to the conversation. And then another option is to also talk about, educate them about something. Probably not a 15 minute long discourse, but a short, you know, give them a little bit of information, which they might hear, and listen to what they say and reflect it possibly back to them again with another question. These are all kind of techniques that we've been trying to use, and we're all struggling to use them well, of course. All right. Sandra's got popsicle sticks. She's going to give three to each group of three, and then we'll start. Let's go ahead and move your chairs into groups of three. Can you just give me a thumbs up if in your group you have the correct three popsicle sticks? Just give me a thumbs up. I just need a thumbs up if you have all three of the correct popsicle sticks. Great. Okay, so there is a whole group. Yes, so I'm going to go over it. Now that you have them in your group, I'm going to go over each of the, each of the roles. So if you have your repeater stick, raise your hands. Great. The repeater stick, who has the repeater stick? You have the speaker. Okay, that's the repeater. The speaker and the repeater. Great. Yep. So if you have speaker or repeater, you're going to be the role who will stay in the bias statement. So in this, in this instance, you're going to kick it off by saying the bias thing, which in this case was go back to Africa. So as, as an individual, you are going to repeat that to begin the practice session. The responder then will be the person who formulates their response based on the tools that Penny gave you. You might ask a question. You might give that person some information. So you'll formulate your response. And finally, the, the holder or the observer or the listener, you might have some different words on your sticks, but all things that mean, you know, watch what's going on and take some note about it. So I'm going to put three minutes on the clock and remember as the repeater stick and the speaker stick and begin with that. Are there any questions before I start? We've already done it, so we switch. We did it. Did, did every group already do it? No, we didn't do it. So, um, let's do it one more time and then we'll switch. So even if you already did it, do it again. You can practice it. If you already did it, just practice saying a different thing. Take a different strategy and responding to what was said. So you can practice taking a different tack and see what happens. We're going to switch roles. And for the third time, just make sure that you've done all three roles by the time you get there. So I'm going to put another three minutes on the clock. We're going to come back together and switch and just make sure that all that you do starts. And we wanted to make a couple pieces of feedback from the room about how that went and how that felt and your approaches. And hear from you about, and normally when we do this in longer practice session, we will spend quite a bit of time here talking about how it felt and and reflecting on it. So I want to just hear from you all. Does anybody have any comments or questions about how that was? I think it's very easy to put the other person who was the responder, who was yelling out of the car. It's very easy to have them feel attacked and uncomfortable. And you really have to do things I think to try to clear that from happening. One of the things that we did was I introduced myself. I asked if they'd be willing to talk for a few minutes. We asked, you brought a good point up, Kathleen. She said, I'm not sure if that was you in the car or not. So, you know, not as immediately accusing this other person. And I think we all felt that someone here, like someone who acts like this, who's going to yell out a youngster on the street, is not going to be very approachable. So I think you have to be pretty brave to even walk to that percentage grocery store and start a conversation with you. And secondly, you'd have to be pretty careful. And we want to make sure that because this is so important to respond, that you're able to think quickly on your feet and that you know when to leave, too. You know, if they start shouting back and it seems like it could get physical, like don't stick around. I just wanted to say that I think it's very important to avoid either anger or fear. That that creates the situation almost asking the other person to be a bully. Okay. It seems to me also there's a really long, long way between last three. Do I need that? I think it's a really long way between the initial you confronting the person and saying something to the whole idea of educating. I mean, that has that road to be very complex. And I don't know that you can have that result in that kind of a situation. Maybe you back up from that and what would be an outcome that's not necessarily education in that kind of setting. Yeah. I mean, a great question. Something that each person and my group did that I thought was a good idea was to own my own discomfort rather than accusing the other person and to invite them to tell me, you know, what they think. I mean, after agreeing to talk about it at all, I was just to invite them to tell me. And that gives you an idea of whether there is a next step that you can take. Okay. Maybe it was a good idea to say, did you feel, did you think what it felt like to be that person hearing that? Did you think that I'm interested in what would be like to be on the receiving end of that? And so people want to get three. We all agreed that maybe it's good to get the person thinking about the other person what it feels like. And clearly we could go on this great deal to think about in this sort of effort. I think we're going to stop this part now. We'll be a little behind schedule. And Sandra wants to tell you, is going to tell you about something that happened here just now, a dynamic that went on. So we, of course, work to break down barriers to people being able to talk to each other. And it seems that, and we did not respond the way that we would have felt better about had we asked if there was any, if there were ways that people needed, what was, is there something people need regarding hearing and everyone here? I mean, I personally am kind of sketchy on hearing and that can be a real barrier to participation. And the gentleman in the, who was sitting in the back was physically removed from our group. And I think already felt that barrier, that lack of being included. And because of the way that we circulated or didn't circulate, again felt not included. And so we're going to, we're certainly going to think about this. And I'm going to say, besides not feeling included, was upset. And so we're going to think about how in the future we can invite everyone in and, well, we can invite everyone in. Let's see, can I just ask, if we were sitting back there, I guess they'd like to use them? No. Why not come over and join as well? Well, I don't completely know the answer to that. What I know is that what we didn't do is we knew that he was a person who had some issues and disabilities. And we did not proactively address that. So that's a virtue for us. And we're sharing it with the whole wrong because this is what we're all addressing in terms of real inclusion is something that occurred to me in looking at the exercise is addressing some concern to the kid. What, how did that kid feel when that man shouted out? And maybe that's another issue that kind of has to be included in me. Absolutely. And the child and subsequently the parents and the people were in contact with me and connections with me. But it's great, right? Oh, no, you're going to say a little bit about one more effort, campaign that's going on in my field right now. And thank you for sticking with us through our little mini practice session. I know that I wasn't sweet for everybody. So I want to talk to you all about some work that Serge is doing in partnership with Migra Justice here in Montpelier. So Migra Justice has a statewide campaign right now to ensure that our local police departments are not collaborating with Immigration Customs Enforcement with ICE or with Customs and Border Patrol who are deploying our neighbors and setting up checkpoints to demand our neighbors papers on citizenship in a way that has been going on for many, many years and has recently escalated. And so we want to make sure that our local police departments are doing everything they can to not be assisting that process. It's not their job to do national federal work. It's their job to be here in our communities and to project the people who live here. And so this campaign is called No Polly Migra and Polly is for Police and Migra is a Spanish word for Deportation Agency. So the No Polly Migra campaign is intended to state that we do not want our police to coordinate with ICE or with Border Patrol. And the campaign here in Montpelier has really taken off and we've been working on it for over a year. And we are doing a lot of lobbying with our City Council members to get them to pass a Montpelier ordinance that would put into the legal structure here in town that that is an expectation that the City Council sets the policy for the local police, the direct boss of the local police, which means that we as Montpelier residents are the direct boss of the Montpelier police through that through that representation system. So by setting an ordinance that would determine that the local police should not coordinate, that is set an expectation of how it will operate. And so we've been doing a lot of lobbying of our Council members of the mayor to try to get them to take this up and and push it through and pass. And we've had a lot of resident interests, like we've had 50 people come out to a meeting that we barely announced that was asking folks to do some of this lobbying work and a lot of residents are really interested in pushing this story. And I want to be very transparent that like the local police right now, like they do not want to put this into policy because it's around, it sets up their limits, their discretion and what they're able to do. And we feel that because we need to protect the residents who live here that that's something that we need to move forward. And so it's been a challenge to get City Council members to really commit to this and we need your help. So we have sign up sheets over here. So as you leave if you're interested in getting involved with the effort, we would love to have your contact information to follow up with you. And there's a heck of a lot of questions and we're already over time. So I want to make sure that folks who need to leave can leave. But we have 10 more minutes. Yeah, you're fine for about 10 or 15. It's time for questions anyway. So I think that's where we should go. So we have one person for one community resident. Yeah, so I want to let's open it up for questions. Maybe not if you could pass the mic runs. Yeah, sure. And I want to just open this up not just for questions about the employee need for camping or I welcome those, but also about what are the search work as a whole and anything we learn today. So we'll stick around maybe until I'm going to just respond to a question. I think from you, Phillips, is this only here and the answer is no. If you are very resident, very city resident, there's been work. We're working to get fair and partial policing policy passed and very also someone who follows the news quite closely. I know there's been a lot going on down in and quite remember and actually the Muslim woman who came up here, she spoke to our group here upstairs. Someone's made remember that she came and talked about the hijab and, you know, the whole thing of why she wore it. So did they actually pass it in Hartford or did they pass over it? That's what I wanted to know. So as Penny mentioned, this is a statewide campaign and different towns are taking it up all over the state. Hartford is probably the furthest along with any of the towns and their city council resisted, resisted, resisted and they ended up putting it out to a vote to be taken by the town as a whole on town meeting day. So if you're interested in getting involved down there, there's a huge effort right now to educate the community in advance of that vote, which I, you know, it's going to be an uphill battle, but but I think that it's a win-win campaign and yeah. So and the woman who is leading on that campaign, her name is Esma Alhamid. I'm so glad you're doing this. I've worked with migrant justice and more problems all along. And one point, a council meeting based upon an email I got and then it was not on the schedule. Has it been rescheduled? So we'll let you know when it is rescheduled. We don't have a date set right now. Yeah. Yeah. So we want to be able to take the time to really have one of our meetings with the councillors before we get to there. So we have met with all the councillors, but we feel that more of those one-on-one meetings have been. I just want to add that Winooski has passed this, has passed an ordinance in their in our city for fairly partial policing. So when we take it to our different towns, we refer to that policy and and ask that the same policy or similar will be enacted in our communities. But I just the short and going into something like this, like I mean, my neighbor is a city councilman. I'd like to know what I'm talking about. So I'd like to come somewhat prepared. Can you briefly describe what if any policy exists in Montpelier, if nothing exists, what the usual actions of police are, and what specifically the ordinance will change? So I have one pager that I think you will be very interested in reading. I don't have one now, but if you give your email and send it to me. Yeah, so if you sign up over there. But I think that yeah, the most important pieces to know are that Montpelier does have, they adopted the statewide fair and impartial policing policy. So in 2016, Riker Justice was able to pass at the statewide level a fair and impartial policing policy that was one of the strongest in the nation. Really ground for a game legislation. In 2017, the Vermont State Police came back and dismantled pieces of that. And then that weekend policy was adopted, was supposed to be adopted statewide by every town. Many towns still are out of compliance with the law have not yet adopted the statewide policy. The Montpelier has. So the problem here is that there are several loopholes in the current policy that need to be closed. And that's why we're advocating for the Naval and Negro updated ordinance is because we need a stronger policy than the statewide policy. And when you see did close these loopholes. And so the really important ones to know are there are four main loopholes, which make sure that I can remember all of them. But number one, the current policy allows our Montpelier police station to be used as a holding cell. If anyone is brought in on immigration related charges, Montpelier police could hold someone until ICE or Border Patrol detention agents come and pick them up. And so we don't want our quote police station to be used that way. Right now, victims and witnesses of crime are not protected. So for example, if someone who's undocumented sees a crime happen and they report it, as we would want them to be able to do, their undocumented status could be shared with immigration agents, which puts them at deep risk and puts our community at risk because people may not be reporting things that their money should be. So the victims, the holding cells, can see it's been a minute since I've looked at this. I do want to share those two are really critical. Also, we want to make sure that there cannot be a presumption that someone has immigrated here illegally, that rather than to send someone to immigration agents, they would actually have to see evidence of border crossing, not just rely on their essentially their assumption that someone had crossed the border, because that can open up all kinds of ways that people could be reported to your profile. Yes. So we want to put into the ordinance that we would need to actually see someone, essentially see someone cross the border to be able to say that they were suspected of border crossing. And there's one more that I will send you on the one page or one of the ones here. Thank you. Is it there's something in the law that if somebody commits a crime, that they have to report it to the, or is that part of the loophole thing? Okay. Not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure. And if a person is found guilty of a crime, that there is some kind of federal regulation or state that they have to then report to the feds. Yes. So this does not protect folks if they have a criminal, it's like they do something criminal. But for example, with like if someone stopped for DUI, that's not a criminal charge, and that should be the same for any person, they shouldn't end up getting deported because they got a traffic violation of some kind. And you've been seeing that, you know, civil, civil infraction, infraction. Thank you. Thank you. Are ending up with people being deported? I wanted to thank you for the chance to practice. And I also noted how nervous and a little bit frightened we were when we had to imagine confrontations. And I really appreciate your modeling that when you see it, it's not an infraction, but when you see a lapse of inclusion, and I, and what it reminded me that one of the hardest things times I ever spoke up was at a literally game with my neighbors and people were being unsportsmanlike. And I spoke up with my friends and neighbors and it was really hard and it reminds me that we have to practice courage every day in order to have it when we need it. And I appreciate the modeling. Thank you. I think we could do one more question. And I'm going to get mine in. Observation that you made when we excluded Todd. It was for me a great example of how those, I'm oversimplified, those of us in power won't even notice when we're reducing that power. Last question. Thank you. Thank you for that. We're on courage. We must have courage to correct things. Okay, I have a question. Institutional racism. I was instrumental in getting the migrant workers to be able to get licenses of your driving into the state house for many times and then going and turning it by license as did others and saying we want one like they are going to get and getting the system to work or through its resistance. And now there is at least one case of a person that owned vehicles who reported when a person with what they said was a southern sounding name getting a license and they immediately called the rights who went and picked them up based on their non legal license. This is such a horrible system. Racism actually in our town. I want to know what's happened that was two or three years ago and I have not heard of the punishment for that crime. So my justice in the ACLU sued because not just that single action and someone being picked up but the DMV agents were systematically handing over those records to immigration agents and so they filed a lawsuit two years ago and that case is still being worked out as supports take their time. And I think it's important to know that if you drive and you're able to get a driver's privilege card rather than a driver's license I have one I hope that you get one too it's powerful to be adding names that you know would not be profiled to that to that roster and for police officers if you get stopped to be seeing those my partner went to the DMV and asked for a driver's privilege card and was issued a driver's license after checking the box for driver's privilege card so you do have to be quite diligent. So the driver's privilege card even if you don't have citizenship status you can get a driver's privilege card rather than a license which gives you the legal right to drive but it's not a federal identification it's not related to you know having to have a passport or citizenship so my partner who is a citizen went to ask for a driver's privilege card but was issued a driver's license and so I do highly recommend that you get a driver's privilege card in solidarity with migrant folks who need the right to be able to drive but you have to be very diligent when you go to the DMV to ensure that they give you the right thing because even if you ask for a privilege card they may see a white face and give you a license. And they also ask questions that aren't legal when you say you must have your birth certificate which is not true because they try to give the word around to anybody who's really trying to do that. It looks very similar it looks like an identification card you know I can use it to go buy a drink of charliots but oh yes