 I never really started by thinking about doing business. I started when I was pretty young. I was 12 years old, but one of my father's businesses failed, which was a call center. He had 200 computers lying around. So I was this cool kid who used to go to the office every day and play with those computers. And yes, here I am today in Berlin at Block Show Coin Telegraph talking about my experience and work in the blockchain space. Apple announced that they were coming out with the app store, and they invited people to make apps for the iPhone. This is a time when people were using BlackBerry phones with buttons, and nobody really gave a shit about touchscreens or phones. And the next four years, I built 30 plus apps, which had millions of users. And then when I was 17, I sold my first company for a few million dollars. And this, I started investing in various other businesses. Well, what we do is we work with non-tech entrepreneurs, and we invite them. We give them money, we give them resources, and we actually work with them as a co-founder to build a company up from the ground. These small things make a huge difference with that. No one dies. When we set up Al Mora, which is a crypto investment bank that I'm a founder of, we work with, we help and advise people where to deploy capital in the crypto markets, and we help founders raise capital while the crypto markets, having already done five successful ICOs, we did India's biggest ICO cashier, we did Gazecoin, we did Lockchain.co was the first project we did with the former president of Bulgaria. Eventually my own company started reaching out to me and said, hey, can you help us with Blockchain? And that's how I got in my current focus, which is Blockchain and cryptocurrencies. For me, crypto is all about community, right? What we can give back, that's what really matters. What I tell people is I don't invest in speculation, I don't invest in hype. I invest in people. If somebody is good and he's done something great before, I can go behind that person and back him. I'm always backing the entrepreneur. Money is a byproduct creating value. See what you can do for people and eventually you will make great money. If that's what your goal is, my goal in life is to make a positive impact. I don't measure my success based on how much money I made. I measure my success based on how many lives I've changed for the positive. That's the way I work. I believe that people are what makes this world move around and that's what builds businesses. And that's the same with cryptocurrencies. It's not the money that matters. It's the mindset of the entrepreneur what drives the business forward. And open offer to anybody. If you're interested with any ideas or if you have anything in mind, you can always reach out to me. I'm very, very approachable. EvanLutra.com is my website. You can email me at Evan.EvanLutra.com and I will always see what we can do for you. We're always looking for great entrepreneurs to invest into back and we're also always open to partnerships. Hey everyone, welcome to a very special AMA today. My name is Rachel. I'm a senior reporter with Cointelegraph. Good to see everyone today. Today I'm here with Evan Lutra. He's a serial entrepreneur, Forbes 30 under 30 and a blockchain expert. Hey Evan, how's it going? Hey Rachael, it's going great. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here today. Yeah, thanks for joining us. I'm sure everyone's excited to hear more about your background. I just want to remind the audience to please send us your questions in the chat. Evan is here to answer those. And yeah, let's get started. So Evan, you're a serial entrepreneur and investor. Can you kind of elaborate a little bit on your background start? Yeah, definitely. Hello everybody watching. My name is Evan Lutra. To give you a small background about myself, I got involved in the technology space since pretty early on. I was one of the first hundred guys to develop and make apps for the iPhone. I did that when I was 13 years old. I built about 30 apps before I saw my first company at the age of 17. And the money I made, I started to invest that back into technology as technology was what I understood best. I came across Bitcoin first in 2014 when Coinbase announced that they were going to give out $5 to refer new users to Coinbase. So I had already, during this time, during my processes of building my companies, I had already gained a few hundred thousand followers, already spoken for TED, had already spoken for top universities and different corporates. So I was like, hey, this is something really great. So, and I saw you referring people to Coinbase. Each of those people that are referred to Coinbase that got paid $5 in referral fees worth $500 today because it's paid in Bitcoin. So that just tells you the exponential power that Bitcoin has. So yeah, that's when I first invested in crypto but didn't get involved in the space deeply as an active investor and entrepreneur until late 2016, early 2017. When I started investing a lot more and I was an early equity investor in many companies, the video that we played at the intro was like a three-year-old video. I talked a little bit about that time. As I was an early equity investor in companies like Hedera, Hashgraph, Ripple Labs, many more token investments. Over the last few years, I've been very active in the blockchain crypto space trying to push the movement forward and educate as many people as possible. I've spoken to hundreds of events live in person about blockchain and cryptocurrency in over 25 different countries. I've written articles about TRA media, media companies, right for Forbes, entrepreneur, Cryptonomics, even CoinTelegraph here, where I talk about metaverses, player-to-end gaming before the transfer it took off. In 2021, I made about over 250 private-seal investments in different crypto projects and majority of my investments have been around the metaverse and player-to-end space. Having invested in over 100-plus NFT-first projects in 2021, advising over two dozen of them personally, which helped take them to market and deliver insane 50 to 100 returns for our investors. Wow, very impressive, Evan. And yeah, I think we met at BlockShow back in 2018. So that was a really good conference and it was good to see you there in person. And so, Evan, you mentioned the metaverse a few times. So Grayscale views that as a trillion-dollar opportunity. So I want to get your thoughts on the metaverse if you agree with that and where you see it going. I 100% believe that it's much, much bigger than a trillion-dollar opportunity because eventually we are all basically living in the metaverse. And during my experience over the last couple of years, I've come to realize all of the things and how our world is changing and how I think the new world, all of that we will live in will be very different than the world we live in right now. Like I'm pretty sure most of you already heard about how Facebook changing its name to meta, right? Facebook owns WhatsApp, they own Instagram, I'll give you two of the most used apps on the planet. Facebook works around the attention economy. Facebook makes money by getting your attention. Now, why would the largest social media company in the world change its name to meta? Because that's where our attention will be in the future. Most people think that the metaverse is a virtual place, like in the movie Ready Player One, but I don't think they're wrong, but at the same time, I don't think it's not a place, it's a time. It's a moment in time. It's like in the artificial intelligence, you have this idea of the singularity. It's a moment in time when AI becomes smarter than human. They're an artificial intelligence, a stronger than human intelligence. The metaverse is a moment in time when our digital life is worth more to us than our physical life. To understand why Greyscale thinks metaverse is gonna be a turn on opportunity, you should understand that this is not an overnight change or I mentioned by some Steve Jobs type of individual. It's a gradual change that's been happening for 20 years already. Every important part of our life is going digital, right work from factories to laptops, boardrooms to Zoom calls, friends, where do you meet like-minded people? Before you was neighbors, now it's your followers on Twitter, on Reddit, et cetera. Games, more kids play Fortnite than basketball and football combined. I think we talked about this more later in the conversation, but identity filters are the new makeup. Stories are your personal billboard to broadcast to the world who you are. Now what matters more, what you look like in real life or what you look like on Instagram? As everything goes digital, your friends, your job, your identity and now with crypto, your assets are also online. Board apes are the new Rolex. Fortnite skins are the new skinny jeans. If everyone hangs out online all the time, then your flexes need to be digital too. So if you play this forward another 10, 20 years, we will cross into the metaverse. That moment in time where digital matters more to us than the physical. Our attention used to be 99% on the physical environment. TVs dropped then down to 80%, computers dropped then down to 60%, and now with phones, it's half the time is basically on the phone and half the time is in the real world. Our attention is being sucked from the physical and being put to the digital and that's where our attention goes, our energy flows. If 50% of our attention is going on the digital screen, then 50% of our energy will go to the digital light. And today still takes some effort to take our four on the pocket and look at it. Soon some company will make smart glasses that sit in front of our eyes all day and we'll go from 50% attention on screens to 90%. And that's the moment in time when the metaverse starts because at that moment, a virtual life will become far more important than a real life. Now is this a good thing or a bad thing? Like anything, it's neither good nor bad. It's just a thing, a very different thing. Nobody will call it the metaverse in the few years. That's like in 1997, people used to call the internet the information super highway or the cyberspace. It's going to become a normal part of lives for many individuals around the world. If you ask me personally, I would not personally spend too much of my time in the metaverse reason being because I like to enjoy my real life, but I'm also very blessed and fortunate to be able to do that. And I understand that I'm very grateful for that. At the same time, I also understand that most people in the world are not as blessed and that's why the metaverse is such a big opportunity. I come from India where there's 600 million people in India who got access to the internet for the first time in 2017. These 600 million people come from poor villages and they don't make them $300 a month. With an income like that, they cannot go out and enjoy the real world or what it all has to offer or what they can do is they can plug it in the metaverse at any time and get access to the opportunities not available before. Another interesting segment, so that's like another interesting segment would be like to see how these opportunities would not be available if you were not having access to the metaverse. A good example, I'm in Miami right now. So for example, I went to Romero Burrito's Art Gallery here. Now I'm his art collector. I'm also working on his NFT projects. So Romero Burrito is the most licensed artist in the history of the world. He's very famous around the world. He has millions of followers. People want to go to his art gallery, but you can't unless you buy his, become his private client. But now he's building an art gallery in the metaverse that you can use, that you could access just by buying his NFT ticket. So there's potentially amazing opportunities the metaverse brings to us that were not possible before and that's why it's such a big opportunity. Right, Evan, that was such a great explanation and it really sums up, you really define what the metaverse is and I think you do such a great job of just explaining that to the audience. I'm gonna take a quick question from an audience member and I just want to remind you guys, please send us your questions. Evan is a great expert here. Andreas is asking, what are your thoughts for the existing peer to peer games once big game companies are forced to join the space? So I think the player to one space is very, very exciting when it comes to the metaverse, especially because what do you think happens to kids who are born these days and by the age of five, they're playing games in the metaverse and earning NFTs that they can trade for cryptos in the real market. But this is already happening at a very large scale in developing economies around the world. If you know what happened with Axie Infinity, you already know how massive the impact is of player to one games. Hundreds of thousands of people in the Philippines are playing Axie Infinity all day, learning in-game assets that they then sell to the more fortunate people in developed countries like the US and the Europe. And that's where you see a big potential of how player to one games have ability to change the way how the world is run, right? So what's the difference with the blockchain? What the blockchain is doing in this space versus what was not happening before in the gaming industry was that the games were already centralized before. The games were built around the developer. But when you look at the player to one game model, the economic model is built around the user, right? Initially you earn assets in the game that you could not trade or they were not usable. You would play a game for five hours, you would earn a skin, earn a weapon. They decide you don't want to play it anymore, but those weapons and those skins become unusable because they are part of that game and a developer-centric ecosystem. So only the developer could use them. With NFTs, what's happening is all these skins and all these assets you're earning in-game, they're liquid and you own them. It's a web-three concept, right? So you own them and you have ownership on that and nobody can take it away from you. And you could sell that in the marketplace to a third party who could also be interested, who could also get value from this, right? So, and then you just build an economy around the game. And what's gonna happen is when you see this major and all these big gaming companies are already looking at this because the biggest growth of blockchain in recent times came from player to one games. A big reason of the bullish sentiment that we saw last year in the markets came from the trend that was bought with a lot of player to one games coming to market, right? So now all these big studios are watching them and they're seeing how they're being done. Games take a lot of time to develop. So we also gonna remember that games are not easy to develop and bring to market. They take significantly more time than normal apps or normal decentralized solutions. Games take a lot more effort to build and bring to market. So I think we're gonna see a lot of these big gaming studios. They will be forced to join the space. And as they're forced to join the space, they are also forced to innovate. And as they're forced to innovate, we see more disruption happening and more growth. Got it. Cool. Good to know. Evan, so we were talking also, a bit about the metaverse in depth before that question. So I was just wondering what companies in the metaverse or that are doing things related to the metaverse are you most excited about and why? So the companies that I'm most excited about in the metaverse space right now is obviously there's the big ones that are already open for the public that you guys can use. Decelerate and Sandbox, they're doing really well. There's a couple of the companies I advise. Nakamoto Games, they're coming out with the Nakaverse right now. These are companies I'm really excited about that are already out there. But I'm somebody who puts most of my time in helping seed and help early stage companies get started. So most of my, I mean, I'm right now working, the companies I'm more excited about working with is maybe Xanalabs, right? Xanalabs is building a safety metaverse solution. So, you know what, when you're doing safety training for something like an oil rig, you can't really have that experience in real life or because you can't make things go wrong. But now Xanalabs is building savers which allows people to build these safety solutions in the metaverse and they've been doing this already successfully for Fortune 500 companies, for governments, they're doing it for German government already for multiple years, but now they have a way to build the safety works around it. So I think that's very exciting. Xanalabs is one company that I'm really excited about. Another one is 1211. 1211 is another company that I'm also very excited about and bullish about. 1211 has, is a player to earn metaverse gaming ecosystem. So they have 2 million active users already. I wrote about them on Forbes about a month ago, a recent article where I talked about they already have 2 million active users in India. It's a social fantasy gaming product and it allows you to earn money while you play games in the very simple concept. But they have a lot of options and it's very interesting ways how they're doing it. Then obviously this AMA was sponsored by Whitley. Thank you Whitley, shout out to Whitley.io. This is a company that I'm extremely bullish about. I think Whitley is gonna do an amazing thing. The founding team is very, very solid and they're working on a space that's really, really big. I mean, you know, Whitley started to build a platform to buy and sell digital real estate, right? And I think this is gonna be a very big market in the future. I personally am already investing a lot in the metaverse real estate. And I have so many people who come out to me and say, hey, they also wanna invest in this. How can they invest in the metaverse real estate? And I think that Whitley is gonna be that solution that they're looking for when it allows real estate agents to train as real estate agents for metaverse properties and then creates this whole economy around because end of the day, why do cities and why do properties have value, right? Because people wanna be there. That's why properties in London and Paris and New York are going up so high because people wanna be there. It's the same applies in the metaverse. Now, but there's no limit on how many people can be there, right? So it's even more exciting. Maybe DeCenterline or Sandbox could be the first metaverse just to have 100 million people live. There's no city that has that many people, right? So that's also very exciting. If you look at it from that angle, the land and DeCenterline Sandbox and maybe in the future, some other platform could be worth more than the property in Paris or New York because there can be more people at the same time in these metaverses. So at least allowing people to find that land, that's an extremely volition of them. They have some great advisors behind them. Michael Gold from GDA Capital, who GDA is one of the largest metaverse land buyers. I think they purchased the largest piece of land in DeCenterline for 2.4 million. Then they have Jason Gerling from EXP Reality, EXP is one of the largest real estate companies in the world. They have 70,000 real estate agents, a multi-million dollar market cap. Jason, the CEO, is also advising Whitley. They have Jason Stowe and Minor Mentor, 8 million followers, a top influencer. So I know the Whitley team is really solid, so I'm extremely volitioned them too. Another new trend that I saw in the metaverse space recently is learn to earn. I think it's gonna be picked up even more. We already saw how in the last couple or so weeks move to earn really picked up and that's why a couple of projects in the market have done extremely well. Step in is over 100x. But now, what I'm seeing also is learn to earn is gonna be a big, big focus also in the market where I think people would be motivated and the community would be motivated to learn tasks, verify that they have completed those tasks and learn that skill and then you earn tokens to do that. And I think a great product that I came across meta mentors is a great one. They started to do that where they are, they're trying to build a metaverse university of sorts where you would earn as an ecosystem around the university and the metaverse and the more things you learn, the more you stand to earn. And they're already doing a really great business of a few hundred thousand dollars a year in traction in the last couple or so years before the metaverse side of things as a webinar business. But so I think the learn to earn is also gonna be exciting space, but this space is very exciting. Like I said, I invested in 250 companies last year, I'm looking at new companies every other week, every other day, I'm looking at new companies and deciding which ones to go into and there's so much opportunity in the space. Got it, yeah. Just out of curiosity, Evan, so the metaverse is exciting and it definitely is a big opportunity and I know especially with real estate and the metaverse that's generating a lot of revenue right now. But do you think that these concepts apply to the mainstream as of now and do you think that they will, if they don't apply as of now to the mainstream, if they don't resonate with the mainstream now, will they eventually resonate with the mainstream? 100%, right? I mean, that's one of the limitations of web three is that to use it, you need to have a little bit more technical understanding. It's not as convenient right now to set up a meta mask, secure your past race and you know, not get fish because there's so much scams on it. So yes, we are going through that phase. I mean, you gotta remember these technologies, these technologies are not, they're new. You need to give them time to really dwell up and once they dwell up, then you get to know more. So we're in that phase where we're seeing these technologies come in and they get more and more growth and they get more and more adoption and then I think they become mainstream, right? I mean, that's what solutions like Whitley unlike the normal average person to find the metaverse piece of land for themselves. I think eventually everybody will own land in the metaverse. I think that's gonna happen for everybody. So a hundred percent, I think we are in that phase where we are for sure we have that opportunity where because we are early, we have that upside. By the same time, I don't think we're gonna be the only guys in this space. I think this space is gonna be has massively adopted because it has so much value to be created. Like I said, metaverse really has a positive impact on the less fortunate because they get access to tools and services which may not have been possible before and now with crypto, your assets are online. You own them and that's a very exciting space. Right. And you bring up a good point, Evan, about your assets being online and you own them, which kind of leads me into my next question for you. What are the differences between web two and web three that we're seeing? So just to understand this, right? Web one was when there was a lot of content created. You could just consume the content, right? Then web two came where you had web two where you can also now the content, you could also create content, right? You could publish blogs, articles, like the videos that we are publishing. And now web three is that when you actually own your content too, right? So it's not a centralized entity. So the main differences that we are seeing is that this is better for the society. It's better for the people when they actually own their content, they own their data, they own their assets. So this is a very big change in how things are being done over the past before that the tech companies used to own everything. And now it's being, it's very different. It's not the case anymore. Now the people have the opportunity to own the assets and the content they create online. So I think the differences that there's limitation, upsizes, downsides, but I do see a world full of web three products. What's going to happen now is most of the applications that are built on web two, like social medias, different applications, we're going to see a web three versions that have come up and take over market share. That's what is eventually going to happen. Like I said in the beginning of the chat, why do you think Facebook changed its name from Facebook to Meta? Because they realized that this is the stuff that are happening, right? And the major difference is that the user owns the content, not the entity that is hosting the content. Because anyways, in a web three model, you use blockchain to host content, everything is decentralized. So it's not a centralized server anyways. So those are the main differences is that actually the user owns the content. And I think that by itself has massive implications on how everything is done online. Right, wonderful. Audience, keep sending us your questions. Evan is here to answer those for you. So Evan, I have another question just based on what you were saying because you mentioned Facebook changing their name to Meta. I mean, obviously they see the metaverse as this huge opportunity. But I wanna know your thoughts on the difference between a Facebook metaverse and a blockchain-based metaverse like Decentraland. So Decentraland is still centralized to some extent, right? Facebook is completely centralized, decentralized, semi-centralized. The eventual goal is to be decentralized, right? And the most exciting thing about blockchain is that it gives the idea of decentralization, right? It gives the idea of distributed system and distributed governance. That's possible only through the blockchain. It was not possible before. It gives us the idea of giving power back to the people. In a Facebook-controlled world, Facebook-controlled metaverse, Facebook still holds that power, right? They still hold that data. They still know what you're doing, how you're doing it, even in their metaverse. Like I said, but that's not the goal here. The goal is to build something that's in a completely decentralized manner. So not only do you own your data in Facebook's metaverse, but you also actually own it across all metaverses, right? It should be interoperable. That's how much control you should have on your data. And that's what Facebook started right on Grasp Away is that they claim that they have their own metaverse. You should own your data inside their metaverse. That's not true. What we need is we need interoperability, where we want an actual ownership, where we, in a metaverse like Decentralized, yes, you could have NFTs that are tradable in that platform, but eventually you would wanna, the goal is to have NFTs that you have not only in Decentralized, you could also, you could buy NFT avatars that are actually also usable in different metaverses, right? So Decentralized, at least, is not a standardized institution. So not every, all the decisions on how it's being built are not made by one individual. And it's done through a governance system, where if you, depending on how many monotocans you hold, you can stake them and you can vote on how the project is built further. I think this is gonna be a big trend in 2022. It's gonna be the year of DAOs. I wrote an article for Cointelegraph about this actually, 2022 is gonna be the year of DAOs and how the next step and how new systems and processes are built around governance are gonna be built in a DAO structure. Got it, yeah, I know you bring up a good point. And DAOs are really interesting, Decentralized autonomous organizations. Can you just kind of go into a little bit more detail why you think 2022 will be the year of the DAO and how that relates to the metaverse? To give you a very layman example, so let's say right now, the current way the business is done in the world, let's say somebody comes and asks me what's the best car to buy, or asks Rachel what's the best car to buy. We both would say buy a Lamborghini or buy a Ferrari or something like that. But then Honda and Toyota come out with their tokens and I buy a bunch of Honda tokens and Rachel buys a bunch of Toyota tokens and then we get a claim of the revenue of that company. So now if somebody comes and asks her what's the best car to buy, I would probably say buy a Honda. Rachel would say buy a Toyota because we are a part owner and we get some cut when every time you end up buying the car. So we become a part owner of the business. For in a business, there's three stakeholders involved. Is the user of the business, the manager of the business and the owner of the business. For a business to be really successful, you need the incentives of all three stakeholders aligned, right? You need the owner and the manager and the user to think in the same way. Right now, that's not the case. The user wants the cheapest product, the best product. The owner wants to have the most money and the manager wants to keep the user and the owner happy. When you make the user a part owner and a part manager, you align incentives and that's what blockchain does and that's what DAOs allow us to do. Now, right now we're just using blockchain technology and a tokenization. We just made ourself a part owner for Honda and Toyota, right? And now the next step is let's say, Honda makes $10 billion a year in profits. And right now the boat decides where that billions is gonna be invested or how that's gonna be spent. But in a DAO system, the token holders get to decide how that money's gonna be spent. So I like to go on yachts. I would say invest their money in building yachts. Maybe Rachel likes to go on planes so she would say invest their money in building planes. So the user becomes also a part manager and when the user becomes a part manager, part owner, that's when you align incentives allow for exponential growth which is a big part of why technology companies grow so fast. And now we're seeing how this concept of DAOs brought around from technology companies can amplify and exponentially grow most other organizations if they are able to implement the DAO concept. And that's at a very simple level how DAOs are. Basically it's organizations that are not controlled or run by a single entity or a single board but run by the community and with the idea to help and grow the community. So and now how you see this going to the metaverse is what we see is because this is done using technology it's done using tokenization already we are building an economy around it. So once you have the metaverse you have the ability to build an economy around that token itself which is already out there in that metaverse. Right, I also think like so when I was at NFTLA a few weeks ago or last week there was discussion around DAOs being governance models for NFT community. So for instance, the Apecoin DAO can you kind of go into detail there? Do you believe that we're gonna see more NFT communities like Apecoin for instance have DAOs associated with them? So I think yes, 100% like I said these communities, I mean these NFTs are basically anyways community run, right? They're not like traditional businesses the founders of some of these projects not even the biggest holders, right? So some of the biggest holders are people who have actually collected these NFTs. So for those people to have a say in how that community grows and further grows I think it's very important and I think DAOs allow you to do that. It allows you to have a stake in how your community grows. The Apecoin DAO was structured very well each of those members or holders got a significant Apecoin airdrop to them and depending on what their choice was if they actually wanna be part of going in the community they could stake it and they could have claims in how they wanna make those decisions. So I think definitely what Apecoin has done is a great example and I think that we're gonna see a lot more of these NFT communities have DAOs around their products. And I think it's already coming we're already seeing it happen. I'm already in a few other projects where I've seen this that they're trying to build a DAO using a token model and what we've seen in the past Ugolabs is great at what they do, right? And that's why they have had success after success after success. And I think they have literally made a model of how an NFT community should be run. And I think we wanna see a lot of other projects try to copy this model because it works. And if it works, why not? Right, definitely. Audience keeps sending us your questions. We still have time with Evan. So drop those in the chat. We'd love to answer those for you. Evan, just kind of changing gears a little bit from the metaverse. What are your thoughts on the crypto market today? I don't really, I don't trade crypto. So I don't check the markets every single day. I don't look at the price of Bitcoin every few hours. But I'm very, very bullish on crypto. I'm heavily invested. And as a full-time investor, entrepreneur in the space, my task is mostly growing the space forward. And what I see is that I see the smartest people in the world coming and being attracted to the space. And then every day there's more and more smart people who get involved, who join the space. And most of the times anybody who comes across the space is normally, ends up becoming very, very interested and sees that this is the future. And it's very, very rarely would you come across somebody who's like, hey, this doesn't make sense or I don't think this is gonna be the future. So we're definitely growing. We're definitely going in the right part and we're going very, very fast. Technology grows exponentially. We all gotta remember this whole industry is only around a decade old. It's not even just been a decade since Bitcoin's been around. So we gotta give it time. The other technologies and industries have been out there for centuries. So I think it's definitely, the market is doing really well. And there's a lot of people who are probably wondering when does Bitcoin cross 100,000? I can't tell you that, but what I can tell you is the best way to predict the future is to go build it. And I see that a lot in the crypto and blockchain space. A lot of cool people are building every day. I'm here right now. I mean, it's at a point where I'm at NFT a week in Miami in Bitcoin, Miami, 2022. And I go to dinners and out of 10 people on the table for our building their companies in the space, right? Obviously my network is a little bit more biased, but it's still, whereas I would have dinner before with, I would go to crypto conferences for many, many years, right? And I would go to conferences in 2017. I would have dinner with 10, 15 people. There's only one person building a project. Now you have dinner. There's out of 10 for our building their own project. So it just tells you, there's a lot of development being happening. There's a lot of innovation happening. And you're going to see results off that. I mean, eventually you're going to see results and results take time to come. But when you see those results, you're going to see this massive bull run that we're all waiting for. Awesome. That's exciting. Okay. We've got a question in the audience. Edwin is asking, are there any new hardware developments to help the masses adopt the metaverse? So obviously Facebook itself has spent a couple billion buying Oculus. The goal was to make the Oculus headset more adaptable to the masses. There is this barrier again to use a really good VR and really good metaverse experience you would have to invest in the hardware. There is, but the upside is there's companies investing every day to make the hardware available to the people and to the masses. So I think that's happening a lot. I personally don't read too much in about the hardware development of the VR headsets, but I use Oculus myself and I think it's a great product already. I think most people should try to use it. Most people actually have not used it. And you can see how further along it has already developed. It's a really, really immersive experience when you wear the Oculus headset. It works out to be very nice. Got it. Wonderful. Just based on that question, Evan, I mean, in order to get Web3 to the mainstream and have them adopt it, what other challenges, you know, hardware is one thing. I was into central for their metaverse fashion week. And in my opinion, the resolution still needed some work. So can we ensure that Web3 and the metaverse develops quite well as we move forward? I mean, we have, like I just said, we have thousands, hundreds of thousands of modest people working on this right now, right? Everybody wants to make it better. Everybody wants to make it more cleaner the resolution better, a more immersive experience, a more interactive and more engagement experience, right? Everybody's working towards that. How can we do it? We can go and add value the best way we see fit, right? What are the values that you can add? Can you help in building community? Go and help build community. Can you code? If you can code, then you should try and build actually the code base. But there's different ways to get involved in the space. And I would recommend, find your passion and see what you like doing best and try to go behind that. Because at the end of the day, it's very important to do what you love. If you do what you love, you would always have great value. So that's what I would also recommend is to do what you love. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot, there's this, like I said, we're still early, there's a long way we have to go. I have invested in, like I said, over a hundred Play-Doh and metaverse projects in the last 2021. And we're gonna see a lot of these coming to market. And the next one has always been the last one at least. That's what we hope for. And DeCerales and Sandbox have been out there, they're the oldest, they've been out there for the longest, they were the most developed in, but they are also not with the most latest technologies behind them. So we're gonna see more cool products come out with much better resolution soon. Got it, cool. And as an investor, I mean, you've invested so much time and energy into these Play-To-Earn and metaverse companies. So I'm just curious to know, we're seeing this influx of NFTs, everyone, everyone I know, and we're not talking about just crypto natives. Everyone seems to be launching an NFT right now. Like I was at the Grammys this year, people were talking about NFTs there. It's going mainstream. So as an investor, how do you find the companies, how do you determine which ones are worth your time and energy? Because with so many people doing this innovation, how do you pinpoint which ones you actually want to spend time with investing in? So yeah, this is a very hard question, right? I mean, end of the day, if your goal is to invest in the NFT as something you like as an art, so obviously invest in what you like, right? If your goal is to invest it as an investment, hoping that it goes up in price, there's a few things we need to look at. You need to look at how big the community is. You need to look at what the community is behind and you need to look at, do you think that community is strong enough that the flow price of the project will keep going up? Do you think there's more people interested in acquiring this project that you're looking at? So there's a few things you need to look at and decide what is the goal behind buying that NFT? But yeah, that's true. Everybody's getting into NFTs right now. Everybody's talking about NFTs for sure, at least, but again, there's challenges to Web 3. When I meet people who don't have NFTs, I normally end up gifting them an NFT just so that they download a MetaMask and get used to it. But what we are seeing is that right now, there's still only a few million people in the world who actually have an NFT wallet, right? But we have all these celebrities talking about NFTs. We have all the biggest celebrities in the world using photos of board apes as their profile pictures because they believe in it, right? It's a culture and the current culture is to be using NFTs and playing around with NFTs. But when it comes to investing, you want to be extra careful. You don't want to put your money into something that NFTs are obviously very, very high risk, obviously very high growth that comes with very high risk. So you want to be careful. But I think this is a very exciting space and the key is an infused retail value by the back of the community. So the community holds, the value holds and the price goes up. The community doesn't hold, the price goes down. So look at the community, that's the most important. Look at the community before anything else. Got it. That's really great advice. Okay, we have a few more minutes with Evan. So I just want to encourage everyone, if you guys have questions, please send that our way. Evan, just random question for you. Where, what is your background? I've been wondering about that. The background behind you. I've been wondering about your background. What is it? Oh yeah, I made the Gucci house right now. So that's not a Gucci house. Got it, okay. Everything is Gucci. It's very cool. I made a Gucci piano here, so. Nice, awesome. Okay, random question. Evan, so I know that you're at Bitcoin Miami, you're really busy, you've got to go soon. So final thoughts before we end the AMA today. Final thoughts, get involved in the space, guys. It's never too late. It's still very early. Get involved in the space. Find a project you like, join the community. If you don't know what to do, add value as a community manager. Try to moderate, try to help something grow. There's a lot of opportunity in this space. If you get involved, if you go in with a value, focus to add value and others, you will have a lot of success. And that's it, to the moon. Wish you everybody the best. If anybody's interested to reach out, they can follow me on Instagram at EvanLutra or email me evan at evanlutra.com. So not a issue. Awesome, thank you so much, Evan. Thank you. Thanks to our audience for joining us. And remember, subscribe to our YouTube. Have a great day, everyone. Thanks. Take care, guys. Bye, bye, thank you.