 I'm Dave the Cyber Guy, thanks for joining us again. I will be here for one more episode next week, and then after that I'm going to have to take a break because I'm going out to Las Vegas to attend B-Sides, Black Hat, and the DEF CON Cyber Security Conference is all in the first week of August in Las Vegas. That's right, if it gets thermonuclear hot in Vegas, you have to have a cybersecurity conference. That's just the way it has to be every year. So I'm going to go out there and spontaneously burst into flames with the rest of my nerd brethren, and hopefully come back with a little bit of a tan and maybe not drink myself into a stupor. Okay, but forget the beer, will you? No beer. Because the end of the day at the conference is the perfect time for you to report back here. Yes. Think Tech. I will do that, and then I'll start drinking. I guess, J-Fight L, founder of Think Tech Hawaii, welcome, and I am so happy that you get to be here. Our original co-host slash guest got sick, so he couldn't be here. But great to have you aboard because you're a database programmer, former attorney, founder of this wonderful organization that we broadcast on every week, and thank you so much for having our show. And I am fascinated with what you were going to discuss, so I want to discuss that very subject, which I think about all the time. Well, let's set up the foundation of the topic, actually, the separation of families. It was a policy that it's been there, actually, for many years, but it's never truly been universally enforced with such black and white indiscriminate execution as it is now. This policy actually, as my research has led me to believe that this was brought to the forefront by Stephen Miller, who works for the president, who, in my opinion, is an absolute Nazi and doesn't care about human people, must have been picked on ruthlessly as a young man. And now he's taking his vengeance. And unfortunately, the law enforcement agency at the border that's responsible for executing the orders of the president and our border security, they didn't really think this went out. And many people that I discuss with, they tell me, we don't think it's their fault. The president didn't think this out, or the administration didn't think it out. True. However, as we'll discuss in a few minutes, other law enforcement agencies have the same kind of policies and don't fall into this trap, which is, once we separate children from their parents, how do we put them back together again when all is well? They didn't think about that. So now we've got this enormous crisis where many children have actually been lost. And the big fear, I guess, is that some of those children might fall into the hands of sexual predators or human track-fickers. This is a terrible situation. It's like slavery. So how could we have solved this problem? And you brought this up. How hard would it be to make a database of people being separated from their children? So once the criminal prosecution was over, once their applicants for asylum had been processed, that they and their children could be reunited. And really making that kind of a database wouldn't be much of a challenge, now would it? I think you start out with zero, because I think the immigration service had no system in place. Right. And it would surprise me if they even wrote the names down on a yellow pad. They had no idea who was on this side of the equation in terms of family and children on that side. No idea what they were going to do if and when somebody asked them to reunite, which is incredibly blind to the realities of our time, I mean, to rationality. It was irrational. This whole agency must have been under some kind of pressure from Washington to act now, separate them, and be damned, we'll worry about it later. That sort of mentality comes from Washington on this. So they went through that. I mean, I don't know if they all were mean spirited, but their leadership was mean spirited to do this, to violently separate parents and children, even young children. So we start out with a carte blanche. They had no system. They had no system. And they have no system today. I mean, every time they do reunite somebody, it's like a miracle. How can they find them? They don't know who's related to who. And it's interesting that now, weeks after, they're using DNA not to reunite them, but to verify that they're really related. It's a verification. It's a police technique rather than an attempt to unite families in the family sense. And a lengthy one, and one that can't be used if the parents have already been deported and the child's still stuck in here in the US, which I believe is tantamount to kidnapping. We're taking your child and we're throwing you out of the country, but we're keeping your kid. I'm sorry. That's kidnapping. I mean, that would be cross-the-border international kidnapping, and we're doing it. Indefensible. I don't think that's... Yeah, it's indefensible. I mean, Hedge should roll on this. Anyway, so if we roll it back to the time when they should've been thinking about this, Dave, let's together, let's design a database system. How would we do that? First of all... Well, let's talk about federal government. You can't do a thing in federal government without a policy. You don't write it down on paper. You don't put that in black and white and put that in front of somebody's with a stamp and a signature. How long does that take? It takes forever. Then you got to hand it over to the next guy who says, oh, yeah, we don't have the budget for this till next year, right? And then you got to go through appropriations. That's the federal government. It's just the slow, slogging bureaucratic nightmare. But if you could get through that fast, which would be a miracle, yeah, let's talk about that. There's dozens of ways we could do this, and you know this, for small and medium business owners like law offices and medical practitioners and even veterinarians, they start with something like Microsoft Access. It comes with Office 365 Professional. It's available everywhere. Everywhere. It's ubiquitous. It works on all the technologies. It works on a server that can be addressed from all places in the country. Including over the Internet. And it can be secured over the Internet. It's not the most stable thing, and it can go up to about 10 million rows before breaking. But 10 million rows would have been just fine for only 2500 kids here. But it would have taken some kid, first year in high school, probably could have done this and designed a single table database to say this child belongs to that parent. We could design the fields right now. We could. You want to know everything you can find out about the parents, both of them, or however many they are, and then other members of the family. You probably want to do a DNA test and put the results of that test or the location of the results of that test in that database in the field. You're talking about another expense here. Sorry. Got to be another policy. I don't know why. I'm going to put it in appropriations. Sorry. Accountants have said, yeah, we'll pay the money for it. The worst part about the administration in general right now, as I call Trump, the orange-feathered marmot, he implements things without thinking about them. There's no foresight. He does not forecast correctly, and that's why he's a crappy businessman. He doesn't correctly forecast his business. For instance, he did all these trade wars. China fought back and said, we're going to hit you in the soybean, right in the middle of the country, in Trump's base. Soybean farmers are feeling the heat from this trade war, so what do we do? We pay them $12 billion. Which they don't want. Called the golden crutch. They're implementing it with a rule that was created during the Great Depression. That is throwing the money. He's just throwing the money away. I think that the tax breaks that he said were going to save us all this money. Now he's just spent all the money. We saved you tax dollars, and now we're going to use your tax dollars to make up for something that I did that was wrong. Additionally, at the border, when we do DNA tests, those are not cheap. That's not cheap, especially when the federal government's doing it, and there's 15 people in the process and all these mailings back and forth, and then you have to have some kind of a database. You're talking about on a lot of expense. But you do need to do it. Why? You need to do it. Many of whom don't speak English, if they speak, can't tell you their names. They can't tell you their parents' names. They can't tell you where they're from, and they certainly can't tell you where their parents are going now, because nobody knows where their parents are going now. You brought to light a bigger problem. One of the problems, I think, with the border patrol in general right now, is not enough for those officers actually are fluent Spanish speakers. And they really need to be fluent Spanish speakers, or something at least conversational Spanish. And a large portion of them are not, and they're hired without that in mind. That is not a large priority, and that their ongoing training doesn't include this, I believe. So we're bringing people in that we can't understand. We're not documenting who they are. We're simply charging them with a crime and throwing them in front of a judge, and they only have 48 hours to consult with an attorney. If one is available, and in many cases it's not, including children who are as young as one year old standing in front of a judge that's just barely standing age, and the judge has to talk to a one or two year old infant who barely knows their own language. And sometimes they go up without an attorney. They have no idea what's going on, and the judge has actually fought back in a couple of these cases. I do remember that. I can't do this. This is ridiculous. You know, back a few years ago it dawned on me, and maybe others, that the immigration service could not tell you, I mean, ever, in all of the history of the immigration service, it could not tell you who was in the country, who was in the country, you know, who had what kind of visa, who was here legally or illegally. They had no idea, and they couldn't produce a list. So they were way behind, as of a couple of months ago, they were way behind on computer technology. Right. I mean, they may have a lot of trucks on the border, and maybe we're going to build billion-dollar walls, but they didn't have any computer technology to know who was in the country. We have an upgraded system now. There are many government organizations. If you wanted to solve immigration crises, you know, 10 or 20 years ago, buy a computer, use Microsoft Access then, and know who's in the country. Right. It's incredible that we have never gotten up on that. You know, the state of Hawaii is not much better off, but immigration services, it's unforgivable that they never developed a technology. What was their mindset? They think you can get along this way with all these border issues and not have a database technology. But it gets worse with the children, because now the stakes are higher. You want to separate children. You've got some idiot coming from Washington, from what did you call it? The purple eater? Purple? Purple. They have orange and eater. You know, you really have to have a database. So you make fields. You make fields to record everything you can. You're right. Have to speak in Spanish. From people who are not going to be literate about computers, you have to enter that data. That's right. You have to have somebody interpreting what they're saying in Spanish into an English-speaking program. You know, you've hit it up on something else, right? This takes something that I don't think the government's willing to put forward right now, which is effort. Moral effort. For something morally righteous to do something that is right just because it's the right thing to do, our current government does not want to do that. No. They're bankrupt. They're bankrupt. Morally bankrupt. And they represent us. This is the most incredible thing. Nobody I know would do these things or fail to do these things. It should be not. Anyway, so now you have a database on one side and you know who you have, who all these are illegal, and you know the status of the proceedings against them, and you know where they are. We don't have that information. You know, we hand to mouth on everything. Then you have the children who are forcibly separated from their parents and put in these cell blocks, you know, at one or two or three or four years of age. Incredible trauma, right? And we don't have any data on them either. We don't know where they are and we can't put the two together even if we want to. So a federal judge comes around and he says, you guys got to reunite now. The immigration service, no wonder the immigration service hasn't reunited. It can't. Why has it? Because it doesn't know who's where. It doesn't know who's who. This is an incredible failure. Seds should roll. But they won't. No. And this is the new normal with the country. So I mean, you know, it's almost a ridiculous exercise to build this database we're building here today. Someone's got to use it. Yeah. And that takes effort. It takes immorality. The concern of government workers, I think in general, in the United States has declined. They're not concerned with doing the job and excelling at their job. What they're more concerned with was when they get that rating at the end of the year a one to five, they need that three. They're good with three. That gets them promoted. That gets them seniority. That gets them a raise. They don't need to do four or five, which is exceptional and extraordinary. They have no concern. There is no incentive for anybody in the government to say, oh, well, here's my list of job duties. But you know, I really should add one here. And they'll never do that. Well, that's an entirely appropriate analysis. Because nobody in all of the immigration service said, wait a minute, don't you think we need a database? Don't you think we need to know who the parents are, who the children is, what the relationship is, and where they are so we can put them back together, put Humpty back together? Nobody said that. Like other law enforcement agencies do today, you look at the city and county governments, the police officers who have to separate families. They know exactly where they went. They have child support services. They have some care for the children. And they're linked in a computer system. So when the criminal part is over and the parents are released, there's your child. And if it's safe, they get released. You're excluding the murderer. We're going to come right back right after we pay bills or would you just have public service announcements? We're going to breathe freely, breathe, breathe. Teaming masses, yearning to be free. We'll take a breath. We'll come back. Okay. Until then, stay safe. Hi. I'm Pete McGinnis-Marc. And every Monday at one o'clock, I'm the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Research in Munara. And at that program, we bring to you a whole range of new scientific results from the university, ranging from everything from exploring the solar system to looking at the earth from space, going underwater, talking about earthquakes and volcanoes, and other things which have a direct relevance not only to Hawaii, but also to our economy. So please try and join me one o'clock on a Monday afternoon to Think Tech Hawaii's Research in Munara. And see you then. Welcome back to the Cyber Underground. I'm the other cyber guy. It came on a little bit fast. Let's do a quick tech minute right now before we get back into our topic and destroy the federal government for its incompetence. I just can't believe it. Let's talk about something called sex torsion. It's new and shiny on the cybersecurity scene. And Jay, this is a horrible thing. This plays upon the fears of people that have gone to adult websites and have made accounts and used the password. And so if you go to a site called haveibinpwn.com, I think it's .com, maybe it's .org. Just look up haveibinpwn. It's P-W-N-E-D, pwned. It means have you been hacked. So if you go to this website, you can search email addresses that you formerly use or currently use. And it will tell you this email was included in this breach and that breach at this year. If you were part of the Sony hack in 2013, if you were part of an Xbox hack, if you were part of the OPM hack. And it'll tell you email's been hacked, so change your password. At the very least, go change your password. To what? Something strong. What account are you changing the password? What it doesn't tell you. All it tells you was Sony got hacked if you were using something by Sony. Oh, your Sony password. Sony PlayStation, Sony website, Sony headphones, whatever you were doing on the Sony website, they've been hacked so that that email and password has been compromised, so at least change your password. Most people should change their email address. Now, this sextortion is a phishing scam and what they do is they send you an email saying, I know your password was, and they put that password in there that was previously compromised. And you recognize it because you actually did use that password at one time. And they say, I've got this password, now I've got all your information. I want $300 in Bitcoin, send it to this Bitcoin address. Or else what? Or else they release whatever information they say they have. And it's usually from a porn website. So many of these adult websites, sorry, use the P word, but the adult websites get hacked constantly. I mean, their budget is putting naked women and men online, not securing the website most of the time. They're a great target, aren't they? They are a super target. They really are. They're almost as good as the government. So once they get hacked, they tell you, hey, you were on, I think, Pornhub.com. And here's your password. And you think, oh my gosh, did I forget to change my password? And you pay the ransom. It doesn't matter. Usually this password is long since gone and you've changed it. But they got your attention by putting something in there that you know about. You got to watch out for these scams. They're getting better and better and better. They're operating on guilt and a desire to not be embarrassed. Yeah. Guys, this is absolutely 100% for you. Don't do this. Don't fall victim to this. I can't see any women falling victim to this. But this is along the Ashley Madison lines. We should just throttle back on the adult websites and not do this so much. Don't make accounts there. It's not safe. OK. But you know there's another point inherent in all of that is that phishing is everywhere now. Every mail you get, that's M-A-I-L, every mail you get, you have got to evaluate to see if you're being phished because there's a chance on every single one that you are being phished. Now Google has a good solution to this. They implemented a universal secure key, I think they call it. It's a hardware token that you can plug in your computer, your USB port, or use RFID on your phone. Just hold it next to your phone. If you've got NFC chips on your phone, most androids and iPhones do. What that does is it authenticates you. It signs your email and authorizes you to log into that device. So instead of a login? Including the login. You've got to have a login also. You'll put that in and you'll do a username and password or some other kind of biometric. So what this has done for 85,000 employees at Google and their parent company, Alphabet, is if somebody receives an email that's supposed to be from an employee at Google, it's now verified because that person also has a hardware token with their digital signature on it. So now the chances that someone can imitate the CEO and get someone to do something like a wire transfer in the name of the CEO, they're nil. So they have not been phished in two years now. Using this token. Using this token. But let me take it further. Just to sort of expand the possibility here. I didn't think about this for a long time. Passwords are a pain. Sure. I mean they're a pain in every part of your anatomy, actually. I spent so much time trying to remember. In fact, David Ige is under attack now because he couldn't remember his Twitter password. At the moment of truth. Yes. At the moment of truth in January. Yeah. I mean it happens to everybody. We can't blame him for that. Can you tell me your Twitter password right now? Tell him on the air. Tell him. Why would I say that? Why would you say it on the air? I can't remember. You can't remember. Okay. Our audience should know that David Ige is our governor here in Hawaii and we had the missile alert. There was a false alarm in January of this year and he, Governor Ige, forgot his password at the moment of truth. When he needed to get out the word that it was a false alarm, thank goodness Tulsi Gabbard was right on them. Yeah, she was. Representative Tulsi Gabbard put out the word. Yeah. I remember getting something from him. But here's the thing. I mean if we can have these tokens worked the way you say, I haven't used them or seen them, why can't we have something in lieu of a password? Something in science fiction and maybe reality in some places, it would be your retina, retinal scan or your password that I use on my phone or who knows what, something really personal, unique. Why can't I use that instead of all the passwords? Once it recognizes my biometrics, you called it, then it knows I'm okay and then it doesn't have to ask me for a password. I don't have to forget it and research it and get it wrong 27 times and get locked out if I get it wrong. I mean wouldn't it be better to substitute biometrics or some sophisticated variety of biometrics instead of these stupid passwords? Well I can give you two reasons why we shouldn't substitute. We should use them in conjunction with. It always should be something you have and something you know. Biometrics have two problems. One, your body changes. So it's high failure rate. So if say you're using your retinal scan and someday you get a problem with your eyes that changes your retina, it's going to be a high failure rate and you have to redo your retinal scan as often as your eye changes. And you and I know as we get older our eyes change. And that's just one. Even our voices change after a while. So the voice analysis won't work. But it's also quite expensive still. Biometrics are quite expensive. I'd pay. I'd pay. Furthermore I can tell you that in the U.S. we have 50 million cameras with some modicum of AI that can actually recognize your face. In China there's 400 million cameras and the AI is pretty good. Can recognize your face. Even to the point of going to your socially acceptable quotient and identifying it bad enough to punish you. So what I'm thinking is that if you had really good AI then you wouldn't need biometrics in the classical sense. You wouldn't care about the eyes. You wouldn't care about the fingerprints. You'd get a sort of gestalt picture of the person. And the item, the phone or the computer would look at this gestalt picture and recognize you by virtue of your bone structure. The whole episode everything would be sort of conglomerated into a real identity thing. I'd pay for that because it would avoid this problem about getting old. And it would avoid the password issue. Isn't this coming Dave? Not in our lifetime. It's not going to be reliable. Let me give you an example. Google is right up there with China and their AI official recognition and they actually have an application. You can go online and take your picture and say who do I look like. And if you remember the actor Robert Mitchum, apparently he can unlock my phone. No. You and Robert Mitchum? Yes. I'm impressed. I don't know who I'm impressed for you or Robert Mitchum. He looks like me. But that's the extent of our AI right now for that gestalt image you're talking about. It really doesn't get to the level that you could seriously trust right now. I'll give you one more. Okay, go ahead. Right now, years ago you had to go through a whole process to get DNA. It was a hassle. Yeah. Okay, now... 23 and me. Spin to tube. Mail it away. Yeah. Right. You can't spin to tube every time you want to log on. No. That would be too problematic. But maybe coming soon, you know, you get a swap inside of the mouth, what not, that's too much trouble too. But maybe a little piece of skin, maybe a little skin, a couple of cells off your finger. You know, instead of reading your fingerprint, it would look at the cells on the tip of your finger or some other place. Now, you're not concerned your DNA pattern could be used for a cloning experiment later on? Well, I'm concerned that anybody shakes hands with me. It gets a couple of shells. Got to tell our audience on there, I'm an absolute sci-fi nut and I've been reading this stuff for my entire life. Yeah. He's going to be all right. The problems of AI and taking my DNA, and my God, there's been so many dystopian futures that have been thrown out there. 1984 on steroids. Oh, we're living 1984 currently with our new administration. I have hope though that the United States will survive just like we did in the Nixon era and several other eras way back when. We have been through, I think President Obama, former President Obama said this just recently, we've been through worse times. And we have. You know, the late 60s, tumultuous times, the country was just white clean. It's never been as bad as it is now, Dave. And the thing we were going to talk about here, we have a few minutes left, okay, was whether the Russians are going to do it again in November. Okay, let's talk about that. I think the Russians in the Chinese, we talked about this in my last episode, right, there's different hackers have different outcomes that they want. I believe the Russian government wants to sow discontent and create chaos in our government, that makes us a weaker foe. If we were to have election interference, which I think we'll have because they succeeded last time, went at this time, they will want to sow chaos. Now, if they did a Republican victory again, a clean sweep, that's smooth sailing. That's not going to be bad. What would really be bad for the country is if we had only one of the houses flipped to Democrats. So if we flipped to say the House of Representatives was Democratic, now they're against the Republican Senate and we've got this tumultuous, that's what they want, they want the chaos. So I think if we have interference, it'll be a blue wave. Okay, but can we stop them? Can we know that they are doing it? I mean, just because Putin said this and because a number of people were indicted, forget that conversation, just operate on the assumption that they have demonstrated they can and they do do it. How will we be able to tell? How will we be able to stop them? What is our move here as a country and as individuals? You know what, it always comes back to training, Jay. Training. Everybody's got to be involved in this fight. It is a hive mentality. You have to put the boots soldiers in charge. It is a tactical, not strategic battle. You have to make everybody on the front line aware that every single link they click on an email could open up a command line, a reverse shell on somebody else's computer in Russia and open up a door to lose all your data or be completely controlled and nobody would know. What about the tech industry? What about Facebook? I remember Facebook. I know it. It's ancient history already. So we can do a whole show on Facebook. The data collection right now is being abused and we have about 30 seconds now but I'll outline one of the abuses. The data being collected by, say, Amazon and Facebook in several other places is being absorbed by medical insurance companies who will say, oh, look, it looks like your entire company, First Only Bank, I'm just going to pick on them. Say 25% of your employees bought plus size clothing last year. So we think you're at risk for diabetes. Wow. So we're going to remove diabetes from our offering. Wow. No more diabetes. To prove my point, my medical insurance at UH this year, the state funded one, several of the offerings of the medical insurance included no diabetes treatment or medication. It's all data driven decisions to save money for big businesses. How did they get that data? Well, the Republicans are actually supporting this, that you can use data to drive up medical insurance costs if someone's a higher risk. That's scary. And we can go, well, let's do another show on that. We got to go, everybody. I'm so sad we got to go. So am I. Back for the, thank you for joining us this week and I will join you next week. And then after that, we'll be at Black Hat Def Con and hopefully have some content from those conferences and some new scary stuff that will knock your socks off. So join us again until then. Stay safe. Thank you, Dave.