 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. We have with us Jaya Velankar. She is the director of Jaggery. This is a women's rights organization which has been active since 1984. Their main campaigns are against violence. And, you know, right now the entire country is locked down because of the threat of COVID-19 spreading. What is happening to women who are at home? There is a perception being created that women at home are women who are safe. Jaggery also runs a helpline and Jaya is going to tell us how that helpline is able to help right now and whether the home is safe please. So, Jaya, how is the helpline fairing in these lockdown days? Okay, thanks Pragya and NewsClick for this opportunity to put forth what Jaggery and many other women's groups are also trying to do and say about how women are suffering under COVID-19 because they are women. Firstly, to start with our helplines. We have two helplines and walk-in center in our Shivallik office. Jaggery works in four communities in Delhi. So, in our office there are two helplines and in these communities also we have our team members who have four numbers. Now, let me tell you we have seen a reduction in the number of calls that we are getting. Okay. You know what happens you people generally ask us how many calls you are getting per week. So just by giving that number is not enough because some of those calls are also what we call follow up calls. What I mean when I say 50% reduction is in the fresh or new cases of violence that call us. What I'm saying is that since the lockdown suddenly the number of callers have dropped by 50%. Almost 50%. Now there is a reason behind this. This does not mean it will be erroneous on our part to conclude that that means there is no increase in domestic violence. In fact domestic violence may have exacerbated but the number of calls have gone down because of number of factors. Generally when do women call? Obviously when they are in distress but also when they are sure that no one is overhearing them talking about their domestic problems with a helpline person or a women's organization. With children and other family members being in home all 24 by 7 women are not able to find a time and space to call us even if they are having domestic violence, even if the beatings have gone up, even if the other forms of domestic violence have emerged or have continued or have become worse. We also need to remember that only 38% women have access to mobile phones in India. So during the lockdown even if that woman has so only those 38% women would make some effort to call us in any case or else they would some other ways to go out and make use of other phone machines and call us. Right now they are not able to do that. So all this has led to the reduction of calls is what we think. Even the United Nations has said how important helplines are and you know if you remember the Indian government had set up helplines 181 came after the Anirbhaiya case and so on. How do these government helplines and the helplines run by NGOs etc. How effective are they? How important are they at a time like this? You know there might be people who want food and shelter and water and in that context how much of a priority is women's safety in an environment like this? Yeah our team tried to find out about the helplines and also one stop centers in North Indian states and what we found out in 181 the response is very patchy. Sometimes they pick up the calls but majority of times that our councillors tried and this was confirmed by other NGOs also that there is not much response to 181. The same is true about 181. Women and in general public in any kind of distress they firstly presently they are trying to call 100. Number 100 is reached in everybody's memory so they are trying to reach out on that number but I mean it's overloaded and that can be totally understandable. Well the police is handling the health crisis so how will they handle the... But women and other people also do call 100 when they are in distress because presently only police seems to be on the streets or manning those barricades or you know they think there is a dual thing that is happening about the police. About the helplines also some of our women expressed that they are scared to reach out to police because we tried to say that you can walk up to the barricade in your basti and in case of any emergency just go and talk to those police. Police they are scared looking at all the videos of police brutality. It's not only in Delhi we work in Jharkhand also two districts of Jharkhand and some villages in Jharkhand and there also women are telling us that they are extremely scared to approach police. So while police seems to be the only agency which is working all 24 by 7 at the same time because of the brutality people are scared to go to them and there is no other government agency that seems to be there on the field helping people. About the shelter homes in Delhi there are around 11 shelter homes but has been so much rush so much demand that out of this 11 most of them are running to full capacity and are not able to admit new cases. Only four shelter homes are at the moment able to admit women so this is the situation these are the services that are available transport is not available and so if a woman is getting beaten very badly particularly at odd hours what will she do where will she go. So we are telling women that they should just come out of their homes and start making noise because it has I mean we are appealing to that bystander kind of camaraderie that people should show and should intervene. So let us hope that something like this people may take steps if women start coming out and saying that I'm being abused. And this is happening in posh localities I have wanted to ask you yes that this is not a problem only of the poor or the middle class this this is a problem of the entire socio economic spectrum right. Absolutely absolutely in Saket in Saket is one of the you know it's really upmarket areas of South Delhi in a woman was being trashed by her husband at night. I couldn't get the house number so as to inform the police. A friend's friend just mentioned so we are trying to get that information and I have requested that friend to pass on that information that any next time if this happens she can pass on the information to us and we can alert the police. Now how do things function. Even if it is happening next door they wouldn't take any stand or they wouldn't go and help. You ask me that it is a perception that women for women homes are the safest place. In fact the fact say something else. These are the most dangerous places for women and that is what I wanted to draw your attention to when we talk about domestic violence even in present situation we generally visualize beatings we generally visualize verbal or emotional abuse. But in this present situation. There are other types of domestic violence that that also we should take we should be cognizant of what is happening. In if from jhakan we are getting a lot of reports and we have seen all over the country this train that migrant workers have now gone back to their villages. Without any jobs obviously they don't have any money there is a lot of anxiety there no money no cash rations are not enough. So the intra household inequality that always existed as part of patriarchy will become more profound in today's situation. So whether it is food distribution whatever meager rations women are getting they will be getting the least part of or least share out of that meager ration. Even if there are agencies who whether government or NGOs who are distributing masks we have seen men folk try to monopolize those masks. Young boys take on to their mothers because they want to go and hang at the NACA or probably meet their friends at NACA. There is this little bit of movement even within the communities and women who need to go out will not have masks. There is increased pressure on women to cater to because people are falling sick there is no food. So there is increased pressure on women to look after the sickly people. So unpaid care work has always been a form of I like to see it as domestic violence that has been perpetrated against women for ages. And that and now this epidemic has given a great opportunity for that to get expressed even more strongly. Exactly. And because because people ask me whether it is right to you know kind of justify the increase in violence because when I frustrated men are anxious and our women not anxious is they are also anxious and maybe taking out their frustration on young children or older people in the families. But we don't see the kind of scale that we see of violence against women. Men folk traditionally been given the power to take out their frustrations on the less powerful or who are weaker in their families. And so naturally all this frustration anxiety of whatever joblessness and what is going to happen tomorrow is going to be. There is this sense what as if you know there is this pandemic there is a lockdown and that everything must come to a standstill including health and now you have only the police which is representing the state which is visible. But countries like Spain and France there are reports of domestic violence there as well they try to put in some sort of system in place what can the state do in India. Two three things that come to my mind you mentioned France France declared and appeal to the women that if you are facing domestic violence and if you think if you are scared to stay in the same space let us know and we will put you up in hotels. Now country like France can afford to do that in India the simplest thing that the police and the government can do is remove the abuser rather than putting women and children in some shelter which is at the moment very difficult. Take away the abuser that is the first thing that they can do provided they want to do what I am what I want to highlight there are two three things. Because all the systems have come to standstill and a lot of migrant population has gone back and it's not only the daily wage or not even the students and even from the upper class upper class people they have gone to their homes hometowns. Yes, no are functioning probably. So with all this movement. I see a rise in unwanted pregnancies probably, because our government has, has not covered contraceptives probably as essential services and that would be one of the recommendations women's groups and health groups would strongly want to meet. That help lines running help lines for women in distress for children in distress you must have read the reports that child abuse cases have gone have grown many four which itself on this whole myth that homes are safe. Obviously homes safe to their children. So they will not be safe. Anything that is not safe for children and women is is our homes actually so essential services should include services like help lines. Now I have worked with Haryana government in the past for setting up counseling centers for women survivors of violence in public hospitals. And what was our experience that suppose there is a load on the hospital for whatever reason, there is a sudden rush in the gynecology ward. So the doctors would expect counselors sitting in this center, which, which was basically for women survivors of violence, they wouldn't be getting cases all 24 by seven. So sometime they would be sitting and filling their forms but the doctors would expect them to immediately come and help them to do their BP is and you know to do their record recording work. So in health and presently I think many government hospitals all across the country, they would expect counselors to go and do Corona work. Like in couple of our communities what we, we are told that there were this two or three private practitioners who used to come to that Basti and do their operate their the Wakanas clinics. The government told them to shut that down and report to duty on government hospital nearby for Corona 19. So the tendency is to take all the force health force on COVID-19 duty that is considered essential service, whereas we know that this kind of violations are taking place. There must be increase in force unprotected sex. What will that woman do? Where will she go? If she knows she's pregnant and she wants an abortion, where will she go? We have closed all the OPD's, all other services. We have read news reports of two pregnant, at least I remember two in the recent past where those pregnant women found it very difficult to approach government facility. They were turned away and one delivered in an auto rickshaw and I think one lost her baby. So childbirth, abortion, contraception, all this should be considered as essential services because a woman needing abortion today cannot possibly wait for a few more weeks. After which it may not remain an option for her and there is no attention being paid to that. So the third thing that I want to say is you very rightly said there is a lot of public messaging happening around COVID. Wash your hands 10 times, cover your nose, don't cough without covering your mouth, use mask when you want to step outside. We have made mask compulsory in Delhi and Bombay at least, Maharashtra at least. Why this public messaging is not, we can easily have in the same bulletin or in the same message why there is no message against violence which is directed at men who are the main perpetrators of this violence, whether it is women, children, transgender, there are some vulnerable populations in our group. I mean we are hearing stories of sex workers who have gone hungry for days together now. And suppose there is government ration that is available, people queue up and sex workers are not treated well in that queue and so they had to go back and so they couldn't avail of that scheme. So what will happen to some of these populations? There should be public messaging against violence in general, that is also very much required. And what I think if you have gone through the disaster act that has been invoked, the 5000 Disaster Management Act, I could see in the guidelines for minimum standards of relief. The guideline includes only one minor thing about special provisions to widows and orphans. Apart from that, there is no mention of women. So many types of women and other vulnerable populations need support in this situation and government should immediately do something about it. Yeah, the ultimate question here is how long this lockdown will continue and women need to also get back to work at some point. So there's now talk of a graded system, some states are doing it. The center is also apparently considering some sort of a zonal release of people. What is it that we make a plan which is looking three months forward, not just a week ahead or even a month ahead in these circumstances? How urgent is it for women to get back to work? Absolutely urgent because the other need that is being voiced by communities is no cash in hand. And women again, they are expected to fulfill all the needs of their families, whatever the need. They don't have cash. So there needs to be some urgent steps that need to be taken. That 500 rupees in Jandan is too meager. You know, government is asking very rightly to wash their hands frequently. Women are saying we don't have any cash to buy any soap. Now we are thinking of adding soaps in our relief packets. Initially provided only dry rations, thinking that people will have some of these things stocked in their homes. Now after so many days, all those stocks are exhausted. You know even namak, masalas, chini and the other need that is coming is LPG cylinders. Not all have got that money in their account and even if they get their money in their account, how will they go out to withdraw that cash and then go and buy that LPG? So these are immediate and government needs to do something on war footing. Are women at the helpline actually asking this question? When will the lockdown be? Some of them yes. And even if not on helpline, our community staff and you will ask any NGO working in the field and you will know that people are asking these questions. There is a lot of despair, a lot of anxiety about what will happen. People have not got some cancer patients, some dialysis patients. Children have not got their inoculations on time vaccinations. So what will happen? They all are very anxious and everybody wants this and we really do not have any answer because we do not get any, as you said, we only get to know at least three or four days or maximum one week kind of a time limit. We have to hear from our government what is the long term plan that they are thinking? What are the things, even if that red orange green zone, what will happen to actually to kind of so that people start moving? How that will be adjusted? How that will be allowed? People have these questions. The first thing I think are rations and cash. Because as NGOs, we are not in a position to disperse any cash that only our government can do. State government, central government, they all need to pitch in. Rations and other stuff are trying to do something. But cash, people need cash, people need medicines. Now, I am also part of health movement and when I was talking to my comrades in health movements, they told me that it will not be advisable to distribute medicine at all. Because it's risky how people will take, whether that dosage was right, whether that drug was right. But when you see people are having fever for days, cough and cold for days, they are also anxious whether that is corona or not. So, there are no answers. Women are the caregivers of all these women. And if they are suffering and suppose a woman catches, I am sure she will be harassed by her family and community that you got this scourge for us. Because maybe the community will be sealed. So, if it is a woman who first gets tested positive and which leads to this kind of ceiling, she will be feeling more violence compared to a man patient. So, these are women are facing. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jaya for joining us and thanks for all that information.